Talk:Vampire: The Masquerade

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Bad redirection[edit]

How does one avoid erroneous redirection? I wanted to enable a possible link from the Maasai to the Laibon, the healer shamans of this ethnic group, but it ended up here... --Xact (talk) 20:18, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Editwar under Concept[edit]

A seemingly well-meaning editor has replaced a conservative screed with a counterargument instead of reverting to a more neutral version. The most recent neutral version was from August 9, but I can't figure out how revert to it. JDspeeder1 (talk) 01:51, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


I have a bit of an issue with the listing of the Antediluvians in the clan section. For one thing, it could be considered a bit of a spoiler and I don't feel it's information that belongs on the main V:tM article. Shouldn't we be sticking to the core book instead of combing supplements for the true names of the antediluvians and every obscure bloodline? For another, I haven't even heard of some of these guys and I've been keeping up with Vampire for several years now. So I checked Gehenna, specifically the "official" list at the end of the Introduction, and found no reference to Ilyes, Laro Somi Barra or Mekneth. While I could have missed something in the Brujah or Lasombra clanbooks, Clanbook: Tzimisce purposely avoids giving any name to the founder. Veddartha and Dacian are also absent from the list of "canon" antediluvians, though I recall those names at least being tossed about in suppliments at some point. Essentially my complaint is that a) some of this stuff is unsupported and does not exist in published sources to the best of my knowledge, and b) the clan proginators and the list of bloodlines are unusually specific for this page - it's similar in principle to including a complete list of the saints on Christianity. -- 05:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Bloodline info[edit]

Some of the bloodlines information is just flat wrong and even more is supposition that wasn't actually printed anywhere. It should be removed or re-done.

The biggest thing that should be deleted (or at least explained) is the reference to the Sons of Discord. The Sons of Discord have never actually appeared. They were a fan creation, and one or two books (mostly LARP supplements, which aren't considered canon) contain references only to their destruction. This might be just me, but I really don't think they should be mentioned in the article.--MythicFox 11:10, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
MET books are canon for MET games. However, beyond the one book they're mentioned in for MET, they're never mentioned anywhere else. They were adapted for MET use, but not tabletop. But, this would have to begin a discussion about "what is canon" and what's considered canon, and who decides what canon is, which has been a long-running debate/discussion/argument/flame war on the White Wolf forums. --Amokk 12:01, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Game system[edit]

I am not very familiar with the gameplay mechanics of Vampire:Masquerade and games like it, but I do believe they are more extemporaneous story telling and less rule focused.

I would like to see someone with game knowledge discuss the mechanics.

I can only try my best. - Suriyawong, August 8, 2004.

I'm more than a little familiar with the White Wolf games, I'll try and cook something up soon. Any suggestions? gifkip 22:53, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I've made up my own "starter kit" before for new players, so I could add information from that. I'm not so sure about the legality of posting game rules online, though, even the basic ones I've covered. --Vyran 28 June 2005 20:27 (UTC)
Game rules aren't relevant here, they'd be more appropriate at Storyteller system. --Goblin talk 29 June 2005 06:39 (UTC)
I believe that mentioning the differences of the original Storytelling system (as part of V:TM) and the current Storyteller system described in its own Wiki is useful; especially considering how different they are. --JohnGallantLewis 11 August 2014 13:20 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnGallantLewis (talkcontribs)

Template:Fictional Setting[edit]

I'm not sure the template Fictional Setting is useful. See Template talk:Fictional Setting for the discussion I've tried to create on this point. — OwenBlacker 19:23, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)


I think the fact that the Daughters of Cacophony keep getting changed every other day suggests that "Debated" is the best answer for their parent clan. --Amokk 19:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Rod Ferrell[edit]

Can someone put a link to Rod Ferrell?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 06:45, 2006 October 31 (talkcontribs)

Moving Clan Descriptions[edit]

I moved the clan/bloodline/founder page to the WoD clans page as they really belong there and are full of spoilers. Tried to clean up the look of the page a little. Hopefully it all went well. Cameronmurtagh 11:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Concept and Moral Play POV[edit]

"Many maintain that the game's "moral play" aspects have been overlooked or discarded in favor of an action-horror style of play, especially facilitated by the strange, dreadful and dangerous powers of Disciplines."

The additions by are all right, except the "many say" part and such are POV without any evidence supporting it. Many could be "my 3 friends and I" but that doesn't belong on wikipedia. --Amokk 22:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Vampmasq.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Vampmasq.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

Save_Us_229 20:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

People interested in / contributing to World of Darkness articles[edit]

People interested in / contributing to World of Darkness articles please add to the current debate; Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ravnos regarding the page Ravnos concerning the Vampire: The Masquerade clan being nominated for deletion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Merge Methuselah (World of Darkness) proposal[edit]

Target article is subject of AfD discussion (Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Methuselah_(World_of_Darkness)). Probably better served to be here? Vulture19 (talk) 01:54, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Japanese link[edit]

The Japanese link went to a minor sourcebook's page (It was for Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom). Japanese Wikipedia DOES have a page for World of Darkness which covers VTM, but because it's already linked to on the WoD page, I can't make it link there. I saw no place to note that when removing the link, so I'll note it here. -- (talk) 06:24, 9 June 2013 (UTC)


Most of the clan-articles were emptied with the message "see Talk:Clans and Bloodlines in Vampire: The Masquerade" and redirected here. Others had "NN, primary sources only, redirect to parent", "redirect page as it's all in-universe material with no secondary sources to show notability (seems like some OR too, and opinion,etc)" and "Given the mass deletions, I'd say consensus is for removing these articles. Redirecting as such." by users: Seraphimblade, Craw-daddy and The Millionth One.

As the whole thing seems left unfinished and the above page deleted, perhaps either one of the users could shed some light; why does {{WoD vampire clans}} still exist with so many redirects, along with the article on Malkavians, although it's got the {{notability}}-template on it? Why were the clans not merged into a single page as like Masquerade society for the sects or the one on Clans and Bloodlines in Vampire: The Requiem - are those not as (un)notable as the "old" clans? But perhaps that was the Clans and Bloodlines in Vampire: The Masquerade mentioned in Articles for deletion/Clan (World of Darkness), which I suppose was deleted along with the others in Articles for deletion/Gargoyles (World of Darkness)? And lastly, the reason for the article Black Hand (World of Darkness) not being merged into the society one as with Tal'mahe'Ra. Thanks in advance. TherasTaneel (talk) 02:28, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

As I recall, it's been a couple of years after all and memory can be selective, my original intent was just to merge/redirect all the individual clan pages (none of them showed notability, most major concern), remove the redundant Clan (World of Darkness) page, and then look into the bigger clan collections. Midway through that, a larger AfD for most of the Masquerade pages were made -- I don't think the AfD-nominator was as familiar with the Requiem articles, and I wasn't familiar with Requiem itself (still aren't, though I've paid more and more heed to the New World of Darkness itself).
After the pages were deleted, I redirected all the other Masquerade clan pages/related I saw, as they all suffered from pretty much the same issues and seemed only not included in the AfD by being out of the way.
The template is moreorless around because I forgot to nominate it for deletion after taking an axe to virtually all of its contents. I was, at the time of all this, Bellum Stellarum, which just wasn't a classy enough name for one such as myself. The Malkavian page was restored later, by another user. – The Millionth One (talk) (contribs) 12:34, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
I see - so are relevant pages going to be nominated, merged and templates like {{WoD vampire}} updated by some project or other, or are random editors supposed to do the follow-up? TherasTaneel (talk) 22:44, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
I'll nominate {{WoD vampire clans}} for deletion, and update/merge what I see. Since I did take an axe to a lot of the content, it's probably fair if I take the effort to try and fix any holes or inconsistencies that occur as a result, though I can't promise not to miss anything.
I'll probably redirect Malkavian -- if there was a Masquerade clan that could get its own page, my gut instinct says it'd be them (I see them given a fair amount of attention, and some division there), but I couldn't find anything to really help build the page the last time I looked, and I haven't seen anyone else find anything. Admittedly, I'm not very good at finding tabletop sources, since there's a lot less online compared to, say, video games. Black Hand will almost certainly be merged. – The Millionth One (talk) (contribs) 23:33, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Please have a look to Character race[edit]


@Goblin, Belarius, North911, Genesis, Cameronmurtagh, and Ultraviolet scissor flame: who seem to be main contributors of this article, but also to anyone interested in:

In the article Character race#Race-driven campaign, I mentionned Vampire: The Masquerade because it seems to have changed the way races were handeled in tabletop RPGs. Especially, with VTM, the race is not only a flavour or a list of capabilities, but the real core of the plot.

However, I never player VTM, so I would like some "specialists" to have a look at this assertion.


cdang|write me 08:26, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Character race is a funny thing in oWoD that doesn't map neatly from earlier games (eg D&D) however the description in the article seems accurate to me. Vampire: The Masquerade is a game I know very well. If one is playing Vampire everyone is playing a vampire (or something vampire related). Same went with the other supernatural templates. They all had insular worlds that didn't get on well with the other insular worlds. It was possible to play a game with the various races as they all used the same system but they were designed to be played separately.Sugarcoma (talk) 23:55, 31 August 2015 (UTC)


I'm nominating Masquerade_society to be merged with this page. Masquerade_society's content is excessive and only of interest to a small portion of the RPG fanbase. This content would be better served as a summary in the maine V:tM page.Sugarcoma (talk) 22:43, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Page Issues[edit]

I've attempted to address some of the issues on this page:

  • Additional citations for verification. (October 2012) - Before my draft of this page the article didn't even ref the original source book. I've added numerous sources. I think this can be removed now. I'll remove it in a month unless anyon objects.
  • Improper references to self-published sources. (October 2012) - I think these were cleaned up prior to me touching the page. I'll remove it unless anyone objects.
  • Written like a personal reflection or opinion essay that states the Wikipedia editor's particular feelings about a topic, rather than the opinions of experts. (August 2011) - I think this was also already addressed. Unless anyone objects I'm going to remove it.Sugarcoma (talk) 22:49, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Proposed restructuring[edit]

If people don't object, prior to the 5th edition coming out I intend to restructure this article, putting some of the more "enclyclopedia-friendly" info about the history of the game and its importance, near the top of the article, and the more "gamer-friendly" info about WoD mechanics and milieu later into the article. This is part of a general project I'd like to do on the articles for White Wolf games, which are highly variable in their quality and encyclopedia-friendliness. Does anyone have objections or advice, or even (shudder :P) would like to help? Newimpartial (talk) 15:05, 29 May 2017 (UTC)