Talk:Vegemite/Archive 3

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

External Link

I'm not sure that there should be a link to a brand's website (AussieMite) in the introductory paragraph. I'm moving it to the external links section. Trideceth12 (talk) 13:05, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Redundancy in the Opening Paragraphs

Resolved

The first sentence of each of the first two paragraphs is nearly identical. I would have just removed the sentence from the second paragraph, but the slight differences in the ingredient list made me hesitate. 143.112.144.129 (talk) 02:12, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I've removed the duplication. (The label on my jar of Vegemite doesn't mention wheat at all. Vegemite's web site doesn't help at all with the ingredients.) Mitch Ames (talk) 03:16, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Intensity?

I hate to seem all Aussie jingoistic, but doesn't the statement that Vegemite isn't as intensely flavoured seem a bit subjective? I love both products but they're pretty similar in being right on the ragged edge of über flavour. Without a professional taster's citation I'm not sure that statement should be kept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.122.54 (talk) 01:50, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Agreed - and I've tagged the statement and needing a citation. Mitch Ames (talk) 03:25, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Production

Ref 5 appears to be a recipe blog, and is not an acceptable source of info. Autolysed yeast is a tad smelly, and I suspect much too slow for a production line. It also would not be Kosher, as the animal is indulging in direct cannibalism. A Jew.203.213.63.5 (talk) 02:38, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Mondelēz International

This page needs to be updated to reflect the transition from Kraft Foods to Mondelēz International. - Sulvo (talk) 11:35, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

"Rich in umami"?

Umami is not a substance that can be measured in quantity. Unless the author means there's a lot of L-Glutimate in Vegemite, this is a subjective statement meaning "It's delicious!", with which many people would disagree. I don't think this meets Wikipedia standards. 24.85.252.83 (talk) 19:14, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Umami doesn't refer to the deliciousness (or otherwise) of a thing, it is one of five widely accepted basic tastes that are said to make up our palate. Sulvo (talk) 11:42, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Contains no B12

There appears to be another variety of vegemite now available that contains 25% of the RDA of B12 per 5g serving. It's labelled as "Reduced salt with B vitamins". It seems like a rebranding of the "My First Vegemite". [1] Redcane (talk) 05:13, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.vegemite.com.au/products/vegemite-reduced-salt

Manufacture in New Zealand

The Te Ara article cited for the claim that Vegemite has previously been manufactured in New Zealand is the only source of such history, I believe the article's author has conflated Vegemite with NZ's Sanitarium Marmite. Also I don't believe that the source is automatically reliable because it's a .govt website - this section on 'vegemite in nz' in particular is clearly a light treatment of the topic. I'll try get hold of the author.

Kraft's Vegemite FAQ/History timeline asserts that Vegemite has been always been manufactured in Australia - without any mention of NZ, and Sanitarium's Marmite FAQ further asserts that Marmite is the only yeast spread manufactured in NZ, and suggests this has always been the case.

The following statement that "Production has now ceased" cites two articles that mention the unavailability of Marmite following the Canterbury earthquake - so here we definitely have a conflation of Vegemite/Marmite.

As a newbie to Wikipedia contribution, I'm reluctant to begin an edit war.. I have had my edit undone, hence why I'm fleshing out my reason for deletion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timoff (talk • contribs) 20:31, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

The jar shown in the Te Ara article is not one used in Australia. If you look at the left side of the image in the article, you'll see that it has the "New Zealand Made" logo on it, which is a good indication that Vegemite was manufactured in NZ. The Vegemite FAQs may not mention that Vegemite was made in NZ, but production had stopped by the time those FAQs were created, so you can't read anything from that. The same applies to the Marmite FAQs and, after all, Marmite is in competition with Vegemite so you wouldn't expect Marmite FAQs to promote to discuss the history of Vegemite. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:59, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
I've moved one of the tags that you added. The rationale in this tag is flawed and that tag should really be removed. "Sources are about Marmite" is irrelevant. The two references are used to support the claim that Vegemite is not made in New Zealand. The first source, titled "'Marmageddon': There's always Vegemite, says PM", specifically mentions Vegemite in the title and talks about Marmite's "Australian-made rival Vegemite". I don't see how that does not support the claim. "Sources are about Marmite" is clearly incorrect regarding the second source, which is the Vegemite FAQ and doesn't mention Marmite at all. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:18, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Oh wow I totally overlooked that Made in NZ logo! I now have seen the main image for this article also has an NZ vegmite jar. You're right that is a very good indication it had been made in New Zealand :P I agree with your point about the respective brands' information is likely to support the rivalry of the two. It does seem like the information from both companies are now (unhelpfully) carefully worded to neither explicitly confirm nor deny previous NZ production. So I have continued searching - I used the Wayback Machine to look at previous versions of those FAQs, and lo-and-behold, the Marmite page used to discuss exactly what I needed to hear (prepare for some nationalistic chest-beating):
Are Marmite and Vegemite both made in NZ?
They used to be - Vegemite recently pulled out of NZ and have gone back home to Australia where they belong. Marmite was not only the first, but is also the ONLY yeast spread made in New Zealand.[1]
and from their "Fact or Fiction" mythbusting page, archived at the same time:
Marmite is the only yeast spread produced in New Zealand
True! Marmite has been proudly made in NZ since the 1940's. Vegemite first came to us from Australia and they even made it here for a while. But as you can see from their packaging, they have buzzed back home to Australia. No-one around here misses them at all.[2]
These pages were archived in 2006, so NZ production had ceased by then.
Also you're correct about the two sources confirming that Vegemite is now only made in Aus. I was thrown by the fact that the news article is primarily about the (temporary) cessation of Marmite production. Including the other source in the tag was my oversight. I will update the section with new references, and append it to History, where it makes more sense to follow after the paragraph about production in Port Melbourne. I don't see why it should be in the Preparation section as there is no information to suggest that the NZ manufactured Vegemite was any different preparation to Australian made.
I appreciate your rejection of my initial deletion - made me dig deeper. Timoff (talk) 11:47, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://web.archive.org/web/20060829214640/http://www.marmite.co.nz/home-page/faqs
  2. ^ https://web.archive.org/web/20060829215322/http://www.marmite.co.nz/home-page/fact-or-fiction

Comparison Marmite vs Vegemite

Which one contains more salt, Vegemite or Marmite? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.224.226.86 (talk) 12:26, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

From taste, obviously Marmite.
From final constitution, find some photos of the label, it'll be listed.
From manufacture, maybe neither (I haven't checked). They don't put salt in Marmite, it's formed there as a result of the cell lysis during its manufacture.
Now can anyone (WITH RELIABLE SOURCES) please clear this up: AIUI, Marmite is a "yeast extract". The cell walls of the yeast are burst chemically during manufacture, using sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric acid. These weaken the cell walls and also react with each other to form a salt brine that then bursts the cells through osmosis. Vegemite though is made somehow differently, a process that leaves less residual salt and that also bursts fewer of the yeast cells. As well as the taste difference, this leaves Vegemite with viable yeast cells - enough to start a fermentation culture for making alcohol with, something that isn't possible with Marmite. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Mondelēz Owned by Philip Morris?

According to the Mondelēz International article, "As of 2007, Philip Morris (now Altria Inc.) had sold its stake in Kraft foods and the two companies are no longer affiliated." More specifically, "On January 31, 2007, after months of speculation, the company announced that its 88.1% stake would be spun off to Altria shareholders at the end of March 2007; each would be given approximately 0.7 shares of Kraft for every Altria share they owned. Kraft became an independent publicly held company." Mondelēz was spun off from Kraft five years later. On the available evidence, the (uncited) assertion that Mondelēz is owned by PM/Altria would appear to be either terribly out-of-date or just plain untrue and I've removed it. Eastcheap (talk) 04:32, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Vegemite and alcohol

The following is copied from User talk:203.213.45.59:[1]

Hi Aussie-Legend,

I've not used the talk pages before, so please excuse me if I don't understand fully the way they are meant to be used.

I'm happy to talk about this edit. I believe it needs to be stated that the yeast in Vegemite is not live yeast because the claim that it is being used by indigenous communities are using it to brew alcohol should be shown to be not true. This was taken up in Media Watch this evening on ABC. However, too many media organisations swallowed this claim without checking and have spread it as a fact when it is not true.

It is also an interesting reflection on any government that does ban or would discuss a ban on Vegemite - hence I see it as relevant to these claims.

Best wishes,

203.213.45.59 (talk) 12:51, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

"the claim that it is being used by indigenous communities are using it to brew alcohol should be shown to be not true" - The source that you are using doesn't show that the claims are not true. It argues that case but does not definitively prove it to be so. You are engaging in original research by using this source, specifically WP:SYNTH. In any case, the source being used for the claim that Vegemite can't be used is a blog which constitutes a self-published source and self-published sources cannot be used as citations, meaning the claim has to go unless you can find a reliable source to support it.
The first claim in the section is that Vegemite is banned from prisons in Victoria and whether or not Vegemite can be used to brew alcohol is completely irrelevant to that claim. Vegemite is banned regardless and the blog post doesn't even address the prison claim. All of the above aside, starting sentences with "Actually," is unencyclopaedic.
Please also note that, per WP:BRD and WP:STATUSQUO, when content is added to an article but is then removed in good faith, it should not be restored. Instead, discussion should commence and the content should only be restored when there is consensus to do so. While discussion is underway, the status quo prevails, meaing that the blog supported claim needs to be removed for this reason as well. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:34, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

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Miley Cyrus tattoo

(This comment was moved from my talk page): That Miley Cyrus has a jar of Vegemite tattooed on her hardly reflects the way that the world views Vegemite. From the news tonight it seems that she only did it because a friend introduced her to it. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:21, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

It's a judgement call, of course, but it seems to me the fact that a pop star would embrace Vegemite in a tattoo says something about how it is viewed at the moment. She wouldn't, for example, tattoo herself with Smucker's jam or Hellman's mayonnaise (sorry if my examples are US-centric) but Vegemite has become funky or hipster or something like that. This is why I think a mention of the tattoo is reasonable. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 13:30, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Miley Cyrus' tattoo is really just a personal opinion, no different to yours or mine. It's not as if she's advertising Vegemite. The tattoo is just another of the "eccentric" things that she has done, and is more a comment on her, rather than a reflection of how people in the US treat Vegemite. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:40, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
What strikes me as (mildly!) interesting is that somebody who so carefully curates her public persona would choose to incorporate Vegemite. I wonder if anybody else has an opinion? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 14:42, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Apparently she included it because it is the favourite spread of her current boyfriend, Liam Hemsworth. That's why I used "eccentric". People do strange things when they are in love. --AussieLegend (✉) 17:10, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
I removed it, but only just noticed this discussion on it, so I'll continue here. It's trivia at best and not suitable for an encyclopedia. It will be forgotten in a week. This rather odd individual also shaved her head but we don't mention her in an article on baldness.--Dmol (talk) 00:16, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
(Nobody can say that wikipedia doesn't expand your intellectual boundaries: I find myself defending a goofy pop star's antics!) It may be trivia but not necessarily trivial if it's reflective of a bigger trend, as I think it is, and it's certainly suitable for wikipedia, where "pop culture" listings are a common, and often valuable, part of articles. But in this small discussion I think consensus has been reached against me, so I'll take my peanut butter (vastly superior to Vegemite, say I) and retire. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 01:38, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
@AussieLegend Then we should remove the section about popular culture, because inside we read that "some actor some people don't like" did something, or "some president some people don't like" did something, or some "strange band made an unknown song"... etc.
I reverted the information, but for me this is starting to look like edit warring case so I won't revert it anymore. --OTPOBEH (talk) 11:29, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
It might well be that we should remove the section. However, for now there is no consensus to add your content so the article should remain in its previous format, per WP:STATUSQUO. Perhaps Dmol and {{u|DavidWBrooks)} might like to weigh in. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:04, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

(unindenting, since this looks like this discussion may drag on) The idea of "popular culture" sections has long been controversial in wikipedia; many editors think they're pointless trivia pits and should never exist - and it certainly is easy for them to collect cruft. But they can have an important role in an article because they can give a sense of how the article's topic is regarded by society; they use examples, rather than just second-hand references, to demonstrate the position and role that the subject holds. Of course they involve judgment calls and are subjective, because all wikipedia editing involves judgment calls and is subjective.

Vegemite is just the sort of topic that benefits from pop-culture section, because it reflects how Vegemite has become elevated into a sort of weird national icon in certain circles, in a way that most condiments have not. This article, to be accurate and complete, must inform readers of this status. So yes, the popular-culture section should stay, and IMHO the Mylie Cyrus tattoo would be a good addition to it. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 18:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

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Info box has bad information

The info box currently states:

Type Twitch.tv

Inventor Cyril P. Callister

Inception 1923

Manufacturer Bega Cheese

Website https://www.twitch.tv/sanaza

I'm not sure what the "type" should be, but it's definitely not Twitch.tv! Likewise, the "website" link is to a Twitch streamer who doesn't appear to have anything to do with Vegemite. The page is protected so I can't fix this myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.169.160.158 (talk) 11:07, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

For future reference, the infobox is editable on Wikidata. While Wikidata and Wikipedia are owned by the same non-profit, they're two different websites. I don't think "vegemite" is semi-protected on Wikidata.  I dream of horses  If you reply here, please ping me by adding {{U|I dream of horses}} to your message  (talk to me) (My edits) @ 06:15, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Australian Dollar Symbol

I believe "when it was acquired by the Australian Bega Cheese group in a US$460,000,000 (equivalent to about $480,000,000 in 2019) agreement" Should read "A$480,000,000" for clarity LucasGustavo (talk) 13:24, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

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