Talk:Venezuela Aid Live/Archive 1

Miami Herald, YouTube

Miami Herald mentions the YouTube, so it can probably be added to External links. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCMznkolBWo SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:07, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

 Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:38, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Duque

... mentioned in this source and El Nacional SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:15, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Unclear

The purpose of the concert is unclear, ... I think that can be improved, because Branson has made plenty of statements to this effect. 02:19, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

 Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:38, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Artists

There are a lot of artists lined up already-- they could all be mentioned. That's all I've got! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:21, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

@SandyGeorgia: Do you have a source? I was thinking about add them to the infobox as a flatlist, but maybe it is better in the body of the article.----ZiaLater (talk) 10:51, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

@ZiaLater: I guess not, because there is an Instagram post from Nacho saying that most of them are not yet confirmed. (I hate infoboxes :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:37, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Should the artists be ordered in alphabetical order? --Jamez42 (talk) 13:27, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Jamez42 I have been holding off because it is still a bit unclear which are confirmed. The latest press release said that a confirmed lineup would be out today; it is possible some sources are claiming people will attend who are not yet confirmed.

I thought they were in alphabetical order (by last name), but I'm unsure how to handle those who don't use a last name. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:43, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Good call, excellent! --Jamez42 (talk) 13:46, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

"Una burla"

Waiting for a better source: [1] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:54, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Here it is: US News SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:24, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

 Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:36, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Reactions

I just noticed that Roger Waters has put out a video giving his view of the concert and what is behind it. The video has received coverage in the media in Reuters, Rollingstone, nationalpost, yahoo etc. I will add it to the page but at the moment there does not appear to be anywhere to add this type of information. I suggest creating a section where all relevant reactions to the concert can be mentioned. I will do that and call it 'Reactions' for now but if a better description presents lets change it. Burrobert (talk) 03:37, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

After the concert happens, we could change it to Reviews and reactions ... but I think Reactions will work for now. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:01, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Or maybe "Reception" is better because it covers both (Reactions now and Reviews after). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:02, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Right-oh I'll use that. Just looking at the various reports now to get a good summary. Burrobert (talk) 04:06, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

I have been holding off on separating the Maduro concert until there are some performers listed and there is enough bulk for a separate article (so we may need to later separate Reception also if a separate article is warranted ... ) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:13, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

It's only a small section at the moment with the one reaction but one would expect there will be more over the next few days. Burrobert (talk) 04:33, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Agree; it will grow, so a small section is not a problem. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:42, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Lele Pons Picture.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:21, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Live transmission

I'll leave here to those interested. --Jamez42 (talk) 16:09, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Infobox restored

I have restored the infobox that was deleted by Diplomat592 because they did not like the logo. Discuss please, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:05, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Sockblocked. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:04, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Sandwiched text with images

Jorge please discuss your edits. See MOS:IMAGELOCATION. Image placement should not sandwich text, and images should not overwhelm text. It is good to try to accommodate the Pinera/Guiado image, but not in a way that overwhelms text and damages article readability. As a compromise, I removed a performer and added your image-- there is no other place to put it that does not sandwich text. I am open to suggestions that do not damage readability, but please stop sandwiching text. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 09:07, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

I have tried to solve this problem by restoring images here of only performers in the performer section, and placing the Pinera/Guaido image instead at the 2019 Venezuelan presidential crisis article where Venezuela Aid Live is first mentioned. That article is large and there is plenty of room for images there. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 09:40, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Okay, SandyGeorgia, I think placing it on the presidential crisis article is a good solution. --Jorge (talk) 21:54, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

yes, thanks Jorge, it's great to have a really good image for Guaido! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:24, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

You're welcome, no problem! :) --Jorge (talk) 03:20, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

El Comercio (Peru)

For the record, this is not a citation error. El Comercio REDACTED the report I first cited from early morning 22 Feb, retracting the 150, and confirming minimum attendance at 12:26 pm, but using the same URL !!!

El Comercio reported that state-run Venezolana de Televisión was claiming during the early morning of 22 February that more than 150 Venezuelan and international musicians would participate. Later the same day, El Comercio redacted the report, and said the concert had "limited" attendance, as verified by photos.

This has been my experience with El Comercio; they appear to move too fast without confirmation. Note that both citations go to the same URL, although they changed the article title and information. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:00, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Twitter tendencia mundial

To work in later: [2] and [3] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:28, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

@MaoGo:, is this something you are able to develop and add? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:49, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

@SandyGeorgia: not usually in my interest, but let me see what I can do. --MaoGo (talk) 21:44, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

MaoGo I just don't really know what sources are reliable for citing "trending" tweets ? Also, it's not urgent to finish up here yet with everything else going down ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:02, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

@SandyGeorgia: is there any problem with the sources you already provided? Anyway, I will make a quick search too. --MaoGo (talk) 22:07, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

I just wonder if there are better ways to search, because there were multiple concert-related hashtags trending when I checked (my checking was original research-- need sources). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:10, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Article doesn't cover all the angles

I think this article reads like it's simply one of the Live Aid concerts to help Africa when it is more than that and it should at least mention the other aspects at play and possible motivations of the aid itself to be fair and balanced. It only mentions the Waters non-interventionist statement and gives it no context and therefore makes it easy for readers to uncritically pan it as a nonsense or aloof statement. I think it should be said that Maduro is happily accepting the non-politicized aid from the Red Cross and other international sources such as Russia[4] and that the bridge that the US media framed as being 'blocked' by Maduro to prevent the aid from getting through was built in 2016 and was never opened due to diplomatic tensions with Colombia. All Maduro appartently did was put the tankers on the bridge to block what he believes is Elliott Abrams' possibly weaponized (he is a criminal who has funneled weapons in food aid before[5]) US military delivered aid to Guaido.[6]) Again, This is a concert in a much larger geopolitical context that is to release "humanitarian" aid that whether Branson knows or not, is playing into the narrative that the Trump administration, his neocon advisers, and major US media outlets (which have a pro-war bias[7]) are portraying: that Maduro is trying to starve the Venezuelan people and he has absolutely no support. Sounds like the same pro-war propaganda that Americans were fed to justify interventions in the now destroyed countries of Libya and Syria. In addition to the aid being delivered by the military of a country (directly to the opposition leader) that is actively trying to topple the Maduro government (now with crippling sanctions that helped precipitate and worsen the crisis for the Venezeulan people[8] and in the future possibly military force) , this article says that the Venezuelan opposition and US officials are counting on the aid that this concert is advocating the release of will "induce military officers to turn away from their government" and is therefore helping shape the regime change effort.[9] This looks very likely to me and others like a concert that is being used as PR in an all too familiar script in another US regime change, and I think that viewpoint should be mentioned in the background. I just wanted to bring balance to an article which I think totally plasters over a big contextual issue and possible ulterior motives related to the aid of this concert wants released. It seems very stilted in favor of the pro-war, and interventionist crowd and hardly even talks about the reasons why the Maduro government and Red Cross would rather not deal with that aid.[10] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:5B0:4FC0:E128:C0AB:73E6:66CE:A819 (talk) 18:10, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

I have also just come across a number of sources, which I will work on later. It will take quite some work to get it all in, but will do. Please remember the concert was only day before yesterday, before that, this kind of information was scarce, and yesterday was an extremely busy news day. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:00, 24 February 2019 (UTC) As is today, btw. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:00, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Returning to this now (sorry, busy day). The sources that I hoped would have more content specific to the concert did not. For general info applicable to this discussion, please have a good look at the Wikipedia policy pages, WP:UNDUE and WP:OR.

• I have added this link at the top to where the Red Cross and Russia situations are already covered in detail. Wikipedia uses Wikilinks to avoid duplicating content across articles, so while that information is covered in detail elsewhere, it would be UNDUE here to go into excess detail that sources about this topic do not go in to.
• Please note, though, that Russia is already mentioned in that same section, even though the Russian products provided are not actually "aid" in the sense that the Venezuelan people paid for it. Purchasing goods from Russia can't be qualified as "aid"; see detail in the main article I linked.
• Regarding Las Tienditas bridge, your concern is already mentioned in the bridge image caption and cited. Further detail about the bridge would be UNDUE here, where the main interest is only that the bridge is where the concert is held. Nonetheless, I have slightly expanded here, since others like yourself might not read image captions and might not realize that content is included.
• We cannot make connections about Branson's motives unless sources do that. Even more so, considering a) he has made so many statements himself about his motives, and b) we don't have sources that make the connections you do; that would be classic original reearch. This article is unrelated to Abrams et al, and getting into that here would be giving undue weight to that angle.
• Yes, the concert is happening within the backdrop of a larger conflict, which is why we link to the articles which have those larger discussions rather than repeating information across articles. Going further to make statements about what or who influenced Branson is OR and UNDUE.
• Wikipedia is not here to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, so there is not much the article can do to address your personal views and stay within due weight and no original research policy].

So, we're left with the fact that Roger Waters has made some of the points that you make, and his view is included. We already risk giving too much weight to his opinion, which weighed by a preponderance of sources is a minority opinion, by the fact that almost all of reception deals with his personal views. Nonetheless, to recognize your concern, I have expanded the quotes from Waters. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:15, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Deletion of cited info

IP deletes cited info; please discuss. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

With a second Argentine IP deleting the same text, suggesting coordination.[11] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:19, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Argentine here: it's probably a reaction against Clarín, which has turned from centrist into an annoying centre-right mouthpiece. Their stance has been for years, before the election of our current president, "Argentina is turning into Venezuela!" scare-mongering, which would obviously annoy any Argentines reading the article if they don't share Clarín's ideology. In any case, what does it matter what Clarín says about Roger Waters? Find a better, non-partisan source and this particular problem will go away. The andf (talk) 20:18, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah this entire article is very clearly written by someone trying to make the first concert look as good as possible and the response concert (and its supporters) as bad as possible. Every single quote from someone in the 'response concert' is followed by a response from someone on the side of the 'original concert'. It is intentionally constructed to give one side the 'last word'. If you are honestly trying to create an unbiased article, you should show the reception based on what both supporters and detractors thought themselves, without turning it into a pseudo-argument between them where the side you like wins. --27.253.17.238 (talk) 12:04, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

IP27, if you have reliably sourced information that you want included, please provide the source and suggestion. Vague accusations cannot be acted upon. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Well, if Wikipedia is to remain unbiased, and wants to quote an article from a center-right newspaper such as Clarín, they could also quote a center-left newspaper such as Página/12 when they publish a letter from Carta Abierta (a group of Argentine actors and intellectuals) supporting the current government of Venezuela, decrying this concert and asking external players from refraining to interfere in Venezuela's internal affairs. If Wikipedia wants to remain impartial, that is. The andf (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:26, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

WP:FALSEBALANCE --Jamez42 (talk) 00:32, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

This is a politically charged issue with no clear-cut "right" answer (unlike say the Apollo moon landings), so WP:FALSEBALANCE doesn't apply. Again, it seems as if Wikipedia is taking sides by quoting a partisan newspaper (*from another country*, no less!). I explained why some Argies might be incensed (Clarín is becoming a parody of itself and while it's a mainstream newspaper, its journalistic integrity is compromised) and suggested a fix: remove mentions of this particular newspaper or, if you're going to mention articles by our press, at least also mention the (opposing) viewpoint from another of our mainstream newspapers, such as Página/12. Otherwise the article is violating WP:POV The andf (talk) 06:09, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@The andf: I looked at the link/article you gave above, and could not find any mention of the concert ... could you point it out to me? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:26, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@SandyGeorgia: You're right, I was mistaken. Carta Abierta doesn't mention the concert in their open letter, just their support for the current government of Venezuela. So it doesn't belong in this article. The andf (talk) 12:17, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Or you could just cite a few people from each side rather than putting Roger Waters in there and then 3 people responding to him, including a random Argentine newspaper? 27.253.17.238 (talk) 14:02, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

If you have another Roger Waters, please provide the reliable source. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:28, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Attendance figures

200,000? More like 20,000. [12][13] emijrp (talk) 23:22, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

@Emijrp: you are not using reliable sources. --MaoGo (talk) 23:25, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Those look like the kinds of sources that advance conspiracy theories; happy to adjust numbers if you have reliable sources. Because I've been too busy editing elsewhere to look myself ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:26, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

The conspiracy is the 200,000 figure. You can zoom the picture and even count the people yourself. Of course that is OR, but it helps to see that the 200,000 figure is exaggerated. emijrp (talk) 23:41, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

I had a look at the photos of the crowd that were linked here. Are there any official or other suitable photos from the air of the crowd that we can add to the page so that readers can judge the crowd for themselves?Burrobert (talk) 09:34, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

POV tag

@Emijrp: please elaborate on the reason of the POV template. Which sanctions are you referring to? -MaoGo (talk) 00:07, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

If you want to read some[14], you can see this started before 2019. emijrp (talk) 00:23, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Those sanctions of 2017 were made to bondholders of PDVSA and their cupons, and after all in some cases like the PDVSA 2020, they were lifted. In the end, it's a fabricated news that the sanctions had anything to do with the economic collapse, collapse that by that year was already hitting 4 years of recession and by that November the increase of price levels evolved in the first hyperinflation ever recorded in the country. --Oscar_. (talk) 02:54, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

That is your opinion. The article says for example: "La mayor parte del sistema financiero mundial tiene actividades en Estados Unidos, por lo que el Estado venezolano va a tener muy difícil lograr nuevo financiamiento o vender nuevos activos" and "Las sanciones de Estados Unidos ponen al Ejecutivo en una disyuntiva: Pagar la deuda externa o importar más alimentos y medicinas". I was asked for references about sanctions and blockade before 2019, and here is an example from 2017. Any source says these sanctions had a positive impact on Venezuelan economy? emijrp (talk) 09:06, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Oscar didn't say the sanctions have had a positive impact in the economy, but rather that the economy has had these problems way before the sanctions started. Shortages, inflation and unemployment, just to name a few, started worsening by the time Oscar cited. Now nobody blames or names the "economic warfare", but merely the economic sanctions. --Jamez42 (talk) 09:29, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@Emijrp: sorry, this went the other way, my focus was the POV template. For the record, I am not claiming there were none economic sanctions, but as others have pointed out, the sanctions before 2019 have been on individuals and its consequence on the whole economy is not obvious. Such a template is hardly needed with an article that is so active, if there is something specifically that we may add, that can be addressed (relatively) rapidly with a talk..--MaoGo (talk) 10:06, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

You haven't read the BBC article I linked. It doesn't talk about sanctions on individuals at all. emijrp (talk) 10:11, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

My bad. --MaoGo (talk) 12:08, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

The economic collapse in Venezuela is home grown, not direct result of sanctions to bond holders of PDVSA, those santions were partial and some were lifted last year, "my opinion" is based in accurate sources documenting the collapse and set the causes in self-inflicted policies. --Oscar_. (talk) 13:11, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

That was quite a bit of misleading information that I just removed. Did someone say "POV"? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:15, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Maduro performers

I have removed the text below for updating and correct sourcing. First, it says "included" when the sources are from BEFORE the concert and discuss an ALLEGED lineup that didn't occur. Second, many of these do not meet notability and wouldn't be included even if they had been there. Third, Omar Enrique specifically said he was not going. Finally, do not reinstate alleged performances without a specific citation indicating that a notable artist actually attended. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:47, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

For example, the most notable on the list (Las Chicas del Can) quite specifically said it was a lie and that they would NOT participate.[15] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:16, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Text removed

Performing artists included:

1. Paul Gillman
2. Armando Martínez
3. Cristóbal Jiménez
4. Omar Acedo
5. Maira Castellanos
6. Hanny Kauan
7. Banny Kosta
8. Pedrito Sandoval
9. Alexánder Viana
10. Omar Enrique
11. Las Chicas del Can
12. Dame Pa Matala

References

Concert videos

• Bersuit Vergabarat
• Omar Acedo
• Yugular and Paul Gillman
• Pablo Hasél and Intifada
• Dame Pa' Matala
• Lilia Vera
• Campesinos Rap

@SandyGeorgia: You are saying that it didn't occur. That is false. Please, respect sources and don't attempt to hide the truth. And the Venezuela Aid list has red links, so what's the problem? emijrp (talk) 11:23, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

I have said no such thing.

WP:REDLINK is a very different animal from adding a list that is composed almost entirely of non-notable people.

Youtube vidoes, unless from a verified reliable source and even then with restrictions on how they can/should be used, are not reliable, because they can be falsified (as happens, and has happened recently, with the Maduro administration and supporters).

You have again added a list of non-notables, without a reliable source. Neither of the sources you provided are reliable. On one of them, you can't even get through all of the ads and pop-ups to try to find an About us page. Considering that even your non-reliable sources says these are mostly people no one has ever heard of, and considering that Arreaza promised over 100 musicians, it would be preposterous to list the 100 claims.

It should be evident to you that, yesterday, when someone did supply a reliable source for the Argentine, I improved that content and left it in. You have added content without citing it to a reliable source.

Please locate one reliable source from AFTER the concert that says any of these people actually appeared, and please understand WP:UNDUE.

I have reduced your list to those who meet notability (notwithstanding the Argentine band notability problem below[16]), and placed a citation needed on those. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:07, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

I am not sure why the source needs to be published after the event. The sources for the list of performers in the LiveAid concert all seem to have been published prior to the event. Many of the artists in the "Hands Off Venezuela" concert are mentioned in the references which had been previous used for this concert but are now removed. They are . Regarding notability, this is a subjective measure. What criteria is being used to establish notability here? Burrobert (talk) 15:26, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

References

We already have documented falsehoods, versus who actually did show, in the case of the Maduro concert. And we can't use the dubious sources provided so far (compared to very reliable sources that indicate Branson's lineup of people actually did show up.) The performers in the Live Aid Concert who were confirmed before, did show up and are mentioned by numerous reliable sources. Meaning sources that don't lie.

Billboard also had pre-concert line-up lists for the Branson list in which not all of those artists panned out. What Billboard prints as "Government says" does not verify who was actually at the concert. We have ONE good source (La Nacion) for the Argentines showing at Branson's concert.

I have personally been searching for a week now, and have found nothing. What Emijrp classifies as "you are saying it didn't occur" is "I have been searching for sources for a week and cannot find any". Please provide an "About us" page, or anything to indicate reliability" for ambito.com. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:40, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

SandyGeorgia Ámbito Financiero (ambito.com) is THE major financial newspaper in Argentina. Though I'm guessing you'll reply that when you lived in Argentina you never heard of it, right? The name of the game for you is "pretend references, rock bands and information I don't like is either not notorious or unreliable". The andf (talk) 22:31, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

How can you find sources, if when you find a source you call it unreliable, and when you see a video you say it is a falsehood. You seem convinced that the concert never happened which is pretty crazy. emijrp (talk) 17:55, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Ignoring the personalization, please confine your discussion to WP:RS and WP:DUE. If you can't find reliable sources (I have added all I can find, but continue looking), then we are looking at an UNDUE problem. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:24, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Note about videos posted above, which are all from the same source, a Venezuelan blogger, who explains on his About page:[17]

• Canal de Luigino Bracci Roa con videos sobre sucesos en Venezuela. La mayoría son tomados de Venezolana de Televisión, canal del Estado venezolano, y de ANTV, canal de televisión estatal que transmite las sesiones de la Asamblea Nacional Constituyente. Según las leyes venezolanas, estas transmisiones son públicas y de libre redifusión.

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:11, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Bersuit Vergarabat

Main article: Bersuit Vergarabat

By the way, amazingly this group has a Wikipedia article that cites NOT One Single Source. Meaning, not even their notability has been established. This is kind of shocking, that an entirely unsourced article can be on Wikipedia promoting a band. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:00, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Truly shocking!. --MaoGo (talk) 15:50, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Sandy, Bersuit Vergarabat ("La Bersuit") is a popular rock band in Argentina. I wouldn't say they are as notable as our Charly García or Redonditos de Ricota, but they were one of our most notable rock bands during the 90s and menemismo, with one of their most famous hits was a cover of the politically charged "Señor Cobranza" (less political was their other hit, a cover of "El Tiempo no Para"). These days their popularity is less, but band popularity ebbs and flows in all countries, for almost all bands. Except the Beatles I guess. The article on English wikipedia may be poor, but that's a reflection on the state of the article, not the popularity of the band itself. The band was huge in Argentina and still has a following. Spanish Wikipedia has more sources, by the way. The andf (talk) 14:56, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Talk page alteration: one and two. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:14, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

SandyGeorgia you don't have to gather evidence as if this was a murder mystery, because I did it openly (check my edit summary). It wasn't disruption either: I didn't touch anybody's comments but my own, which I rephrased to remove the "personalization" that bothered you, and once cleaned up, I moved them outside the hidden section, where nobody would see them. Feel free the address the actual comments now. The andf (talk) 20:15, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

I see the first edit is when I deleted the section. Yes, that was probably a mistake. The andf (talk) 20:19, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Continued on editor talk. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:25, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

off-topic personalization, and unrelated to this article
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This is a pretty good example of, en su casa, lo conocen. That their article could go for 14 years without establishing notability or providing a single source is one good indication that no one has ever heard of them, or reads their article. Maduro's concert is likely the most published thing they've ever done, based on pageviews. I cannot recall ever coming across such a blatant case on Wikipedia. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:53, 28 February 2019 (UTC) Worst! In most of the languages (except for Spanish and French) the article has zero sources. --MaoGo (talk) 15:54, 28 February 2019 (UTC) See why here; no one is even looking at their article. Has anyone outside of Argentina ever heard of them? (I lived in Argentina, and I haven't). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:56, 28 February 2019 (UTC) Maybe we can leave a message to Wikipedia:Wikiproject Argentina (or some music Wikiproject) to see if they can check it out.--MaoGo (talk) 15:59, 28 February 2019 (UTC) We have important articles to write-- waste of time, but go for it if you want :) Before the concert, they averaged 25 views daily. After the concert, they made an astronomical leap to 28 average daily views. Da pena ajena; I don't want to spend any more time on it. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorting the attendance figures

With this series of edits, I have worked in two new sources. Text as of this version:

The Los Angeles Times and National Radio of Colombia estimated there were more than 200,000 present. Colombia's English-language newspaper and Billboard reported 300,000 or more. Concert organizers said the attendance was 370,000, as reported by CNN en Español.

References

I've been searching all week for attendance numbers, trying to sort them, and have added to the article every reliable source I have found. Wikipedia reports what reliable sources say. My concerns about what and how we should report these numbers are two-fold:

1. According to this CNN video, and La Tercera, it looks to me like the origin of the 370,000 number is most likely the personal statements of Bruno Ocampo (organizer) in an interview with CNN. And I have found no other basis for that number, nor does he explain how they arrived at that number. So, that number gets attributed only to them, as far as I can tell.
2. The 317,000 number reported by Billboard mystifies me. Who reports a number that precise for an event of this nature? This is pure speculation on my part, but did someone at Billboard mishear "three hundred seventy" as "three hundred seventeen"? For that reason, I have simply rolled them in with Colombia's City Paper at 300 or more. Concern is, was Billboard attempting or meaning to report the same 370 number that came from the organizers, but missed? Should we decide to simply leave out the Billboard 317,000?

Open to suggestions. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:23, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

What about citing one number and a footnote with all the details? --MaoGo (talk) 16:58, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

That is generally a good idea, but we don't really have a consensus number to report. We have only two sources saying 200, a Colombian newspaper saying 300, then we have this odd 317 from Billboard, and then we seem to have 370 coming from the organizers. My first suggestion is that we should completely drop Billboard (as dubious), and see if something new develops in coming days from reliable sources. If we were to cite "one number", it would have to be a range (eg 200–370), and that would give more credence to the 370 than deserved, IMO, and the 370 needs to be clearly attributed to the organizers, although they haven't explained how they came up with that number. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:39, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Map in logo

The map on the logo included the Esequibo region, which belongs to Guyana. Does the fact that none of the countries/artists/companies/individuals sponsoring the concert complained mean that they accept and support Venezuela's claim on this region? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.23.12 (talk) 01:10, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I came across a complaint somewhere about using the territory in dispute on the logo, but I cannot recall where now. From memory (I could be wrong), the source was saying it resulted from how fast they had to move on coming up with a logo (the entire concert was put together in about three weeks). The inference was that it wasn't necessarily a Venezuelan decision, but maybe a British one. If you have any sources discussing how Branson, Ocampo or whoever came up with the logo, it would be good to work it in ... I don't recall where I saw something, but I know I did. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:23, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Found: https://www.bluradio.com/mundo/por-que-el-mapa-de-guyana-el-increible-error-en-logo-de-venezuela-aid-live-206704-ie430 And remembered why I didn't add it; I can't scroll to the bottom of that page to find an "About Us" page to see if it's a reliable source. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:07, 8 March 2019 (UTC)