Talk:Vichy France

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Vichy France and French West Africa[edit]

I was shocked to find that this page had little to no mention of the interaction between Vichy France and French West Africa. Vichy France had the difficult task of explaining to their colonial populations that although they had been defeated and occupied by another European power, it was still powerful enough to maintain power and autonomy over French West Africa. Vichy France utilized propaganda in order to maintain its power and authority in French West Africa. The new government had to justify the Armistice to the French public and colonial populations and prove that it was strong enough to maintain its authority[Note fwa 1].

The Vichy regime wasted no time in dealing with the issue of propaganda in the colonies. Whereas previously these services had conveyed the information from the colonies to France, it was time that propaganda emanated from France and was sent to its colonies. I think propaganda is an important part of Vichy France's history. It helped subdue potential problems and actively recruited the large military force that was drawn from French West Africa. While I am really only familiar with propaganda in French West Africa, I am sure that similar effects occurred in other French colonies.

User:Olafandfriends

References

  1. ^ Ginio, Ruth. Marshal Petain Spoke to Schoolchildren: Vichy Propaganda in French West Africa. p. 292. 

edited by Mathglot (talk) 08:44, 24 October 2015 (UTC) to keep references local to this section

POV[edit]

This article is openly POV and hostile to the Vichy French government. There are many examples, for instance the introduction stating that "Marshal Pétain and his supporters signed the Second Armistice at Compiègne on 22 June 1940 with Germany". It was the lawfully appointed Prime Minister of France and his ministry who signed the armistice, not a military officer and his "supporters".Royalcourtier (talk) 05:00, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

The POV rules to not apply to historical personages, they apply to historians. A POV problem exists if only one side of a historical controversy is presented. To make the case a critic has to present the missing alternative RS. Petain did NOT sign it but his appointees did so there is no POV issue in this case. Rjensen (talk) 05:35, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
I agree this article is POV. I'm not sure if one person is doing it, but some parts read like an opinionated op-ed than an encyclopedia article. I've removed the POV in the areas where I've seen it. Other than that, this is a great article. Keep the good work up!--96.58.192.158 (talk) 22:55, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Copy Editing Fix[edit]

I fixed several common errors in the first paragraph. Karakopcso (talk) 23:38, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Editing[edit]

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Skimmed through the article and found some isssues on clarity and grammar, so will change that. I will also add further information to the topic in time. WafflePuppy (talk) 01:34, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Editing FR-EN translation[edit]

I made minor changes to the French to English translation of some parts of the sub-section: "French Jews vs. foreign Jews": myth or reality? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erdbeerkuchen100 (talkcontribs) 19:08, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

The term "Vichy France" was dreamt up sometime in the 1970s![edit]

"Vichy France" is actually a cover-name for what should of rightly be called 'Nazi France' http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/27479-Vichy-France-PC-branding-wording-for-Nazi-France — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.69.58.27 (talk) 03:36, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Nice conspiracy theory, but the plethora of publications using the term published before 1960 makes the claim rather hard to take seriously.
"Vichy France" is not so much a "cover name" as you say, but mostly just a convenience term to avoid confusion. The official name is the État français or "French State" in English. This is such a generic term, that people might not know what you mean by it. This is true even in French, where if you go to État français you will find a French disambig page, and you can see there that it can mean either the Vichy government, or the current Fifth Republic. "Vichy France" has lots of synonyms; because of its the only expressions you don't hear for it are "French Republic" and just plain "France".
Here are some headlines from the period, from the Los Angeles Times, and the New York Times:
  • "VichyRegime Leader Quits: Baudouin Resigns, but Reports of Reorganization of Cabinet Unconfirmed". Los Angeles Times. Jan 4, 1941. ISSN 0458-3035. Marshal Philippe Petain was said authoritatively tonight to be still studying a reorganization of his government after a day of confusing and contradictory. 
  • Baldwin, Hanson W (March 19, 1943). "Giraud Spurns Vichy Regime: Charges Nazi Rule and Vows Greater Liberty in Africa". Los Angeles Times. Algiers. ISSN 0458-3035. 
  • "Vichy Regime Retires 47 Jewish Employees :Judges, Magistrates, and Councillors Affected Under New Law". New York Times. New York. 
  • "Rift Appears in New Accord of Nazis and Vichy Regime". New York Times. New York. Nov 15, 1940. 
  • "Education Modified by Petain's Regime : Vichy Combats Leftist Tendencies of the Normal Schools". New York Times. New York. September 23, 1940. 
Finally, regardless of the "truth" of how Nazi-aligned Vichy France was or wasn't, a core principle of Wikipedia is verifiability and if you read the first paragraph there you will see that it's not about what editors believe the truth of the matter is, but rather what reliable sources report, and in proportion to their numbers or weight, if there's a disagreement. What this means is, that in order to rename this article to "Nazi France" you would have to find that the majority of reliable sources talking about it refer to it that way, rather than the way they do in these examples. I think you'll agree that that's a very tall order.
Mathglot (talk) 10:30, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

No no no, newspaper headlines always use topographic headings and whatnot like that. It is no proof that the term "Vichy France" was in widespread use like one would think nowadays. Also, bear in mind that ones can also earth up newspaper headlines and so forth which talk of 'Nazi France' in meaning for "Vichy France" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.219.248.118 (talk) 13:46, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

WP:PROVEIT. And pretty much irrelevant. It is the term by which major English language common reader and academic sources have referred to it for far longer than it takes to establish usage as more than a fad. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:03, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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The native name of Vichy France was Vichy France?[edit]

Is there anything worth keeping in this edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vichy_France&diff=703010902&oldid=702991881 ?

108.64.118.44 (talk) 04:09, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

What about Saint Martin?[edit]

This article does not show the status of Saint-Martin, a French territory in the Caribbean. Neither does the map. (Saint-Martin is a different island than Martinique.) DrZygote214 (talk) 03:26, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Vichy France[edit]

I am new in Wiki and old. I am requesting your kind help in putting "French Protectorate of Morocco" in correct template. For some reasons I was successful in doing so for the rest of my modifications.

Thank you for your kind collaboration. Have a wonderful week-end! Henia Perlman (talk) 01:20, 17 June 2017 (UTC)