Talk:Visayans

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WikiProject Ethnic groups (Rated B-class, High-importance)
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WikiProject Tambayan Philippines (Rated B-class, High-importance)
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Article Move[edit]

Pictures Needed![edit]

Hello! Hope you could help by putting some pictures. These might look good on the article: 1. Geopolitical Map of the Visayas 2. Linguistic Map of Binisaya-speaking areas 3. The baptism of Rajah Humabon (that painting in Sto. Nino Church) 4. The Sto. Nino 5. Pedro Calungsod 6. Graciano Lopez-Jaena 7. Leon Kilat 8. Gen. Maxilom 9. Lapu-lapu killing Magellan 10. Sergio Osmena 11. Carlos Garcia --Nino Gonzales 16:41, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

dubious statements[edit]

  • usage of Binisaya

Hi, the statement below: The Bisaya all refer to their respective languages as Binisaya. Binisaya literally means "the way of the Bisaya" and is used to refer to bisaya-style cooking and indigenous herbal medicine, aside from the languages. ...is dubious. I speak Bisaya (Cebuano). I can't recall anyone calling our native tonque as Binisaya. It's simply Bisaya (accent to the last syllable). 2) Maybe it means "the way of the Bisaya" but to my ears and to my co-Bisaya acquantances it sounds more like a made-up language (in the past tense) literally "being Bisayaned". Something like Tagalog becoming "Tinagalog".

Hi! May I ask where you learned Cebuano? There are many variants, some of which may not have the "in" infix. Other usages of this infix in the "way" sense are: Binata (chidish), Binayot (in a gay manner), Binoang (foolish), Ininsik (in a Chinese way or the Chinese language). The past tense sense of the infix "in" is from Tagalog, I think. E.g., kinuha (kuha), kinain (kain), kinulong (kulong), kinidnap (kidnap), giniling (giling)...--Nino Gonzales 06:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Ethnic vs. Linguistic Identity subsection

This section is dubious and unclear, the whole of it. Bisaya however is an ethnic rather than a linguistic identity. One is not a Bisaya because the language one speaks is Binisiya. It is the other way around; the language one speaks is Binisaya because one is Bisaya What does it exactly mean? (For clarity, I'll use the distinction of Bisaya the ethnicity and Binisaya the language) I'm sure it's the other way around. I know that we Bisaya acknowledge and embrace anyone who speak Binisaya natively anywhere in the country as Bisaya; so that on the contrary, one is Bisaya because he/she can speak Binisaya. The language one speaks is Binisaya no matter where you are either in the Visayas or in Mindanao. Thus Bisaya is a linguistic identity. I think all of us Filipinos go into ethnolinguistic lines so that the distinction between the speaker and the spoken language is blurred. Just like say, Tagalog, one is ethnically Tagalog because he/she speaks it natively. Visayans do not discriminate. Jordz

I reworded it. Please see if it sounds better... --Nino Gonzales 06:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

New Assessment Criteria for Ethnic Groups articles[edit]

Hello,

WikiProject Ethnic groups has added new assessment criteria for Ethnic Groups articles.

I rated the Bisaya article: Start-Class, with the following comments (see link to ratings summary page in the Ethnic groups template atop this talk page):

  • This article is really somewhere bewteen a "Start" class and a "B" class.
  • There are so many sections that could be added, however, that I opted for the latter. The article is 90% history.
  • Needs info on current culture, current religion, perhaps a bit of political info, etc. Basically, things about life among the Bisaya. There are a couple sentences in various sections (such as "Post-Philippine Independence"), but more info in separate sections would be helpful.
  • Needs an infobox

You can give this article (and any other article within the WikiProject) a rating, as described below.

-->How to assess articles

Revisions of assessment ratings can be made by assigning an appropriate value via the class parameter in the WikiProject Ethnic groups project banner {{Ethnic groups}} that is currently placed at the top of Ethnic groups articles' talk pages. Quality assessment guidelines are at the Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team's assessment system page. After rating the article, please provide a short summary to explain your ratings and/or identify the strengths and weaknesses. To add the summary, please edit this article's ratings summary page. A link to this page can be found in the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the article's talk page.

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Thanks!
--Ling.Nut 14:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Origin of the Bisaya[edit]

I'm confused. Did the Bisaya arrive in the Philippines as one people who eventually fractured into the different linguistic groups that they are today, or are they really separate ethnic groups who came to form their Bisaya identity based on geography (that is, they became the Bisaya because they lived in the Visayas)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.213.171.104 (talk) 17:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

I haven't encountered an answer to that question. And I don't know if that could be answered. What people agree on is that the Visayans are linguistically related. --Nino Gonzales 04:44, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Some Visayan legends speak of migrations, particularly one from Borneo.--23prootie 22:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Since there is a Visayan language family, the languages that the Bisaya now speak must have once been just one single language, hence, my belief that the Bisaya were and are one people who, because of the geographic nature of the places they settled in, ended up not understanding each other, i.e., speaking different languages. I guess sort of the same could be said about the Bicolanos, except that they have now developed a standard Bikol language so they could communicate with each other like in the olden days.
Well linguist David Zorc presented a research on how all present-day Visayan languages originated from one mother identity (proto-Visayan). He mentioned here how these languages are more like a dialect continuum. He also reconstructed the consonant and vowel inventory of the said proto-Visayan. Pansitkanton (talk) 19:26, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
A "standard Bikol language" was not intentionally created. There was no newly-developed language that consolidates all Bikol dialects and Central Bikol was simply chosen as the language to conveniently represent all Bikol speakers. --Pansitkanton (talk) 07:59, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox[edit]

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 20:51, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Reply: There is to many related ethnic groups in the information box section. I removed all the nonsense on this article and added more clarifications. Visayans are related to the Filipino people and Austronesian race, o.k. Have some common sense for goodness sakes. And also this article talks about Visayans citizens living in the Philippines! Why does people have to add Visayan populations in other countries??? such as Malaysia or the United States. What's that got to do with the Visayans. Visayans are from the Philippines, not Malaysia. Used some common knowledge it's very simple, why doesn't people ever used it. It's very simple.
I don't think the issue of "common sense" is contestable here as what you are accusing. Look at other ethnic groups such as Circassians, Kurds and Quechua. Like the Visayans, they are ethnic components of a country. They do not strictly fall under any existing state or exclusively control one. The issue of plurality in Philippine society might take me an article to explain, but the concept of "Filipino" is nothing but citizenship based upon definitions of a constitution, not a concrete ethnic identity. You can see the same construction in articles for ethnic groups that practically fall under the same situation as Filipino groups like the Javanese. I don't get how it's acceptable for you to present data on population of overseas people based on nationality or citizenship, but not on ethnicity which can be statistically possible as the former. It's just pure double standard. You are not promoting common knowledge as what you see about yourself, but rather destroying what Wikipedia is actually trying to let us do. I'm retaining a single data on Visayan population because there are no credible unified sources for overseas Visayan expatriates but NOT for other poorly-thought reasons such as "lack of common sense". Pansitkanton (talk) 18:45, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pedrocalungsod.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 5 external links on Visayans. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Visayans/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Utcursch (talk · contribs) 00:14, 22 March 2016 (UTC)


  • Infobox
    • Images in the infobox should be removed per WP:NOETHNICGALLERIES: "Articles about ethnic groups or similarly large human populations should not be illustrated by a photomontage or gallery of images of group members"
    • The reference cited for religion stats is only for Central Visayas, and does not support the numbers presented in the infobox. Also, people belonging to other ethnic groups probably live in this region.
  • Terminology
    • First paragraph ("Kabisay-an refers both") is unsourced.
  • History
    • The relationship between modern Visayans and others (Austronesians / Hindus / Buddhist / Arabs) is not clear. Did these people contribute to the Visayan ethnic gene pool? Or was their role limited to cultural influence?
    • No page number for David Paul Zorc reference.
    • This source does not support the content it is cited for. It calls the Sulundon the only indigenous group of Western Visayas. It does not state that they are the only ones who maintain pre-Hispanic Visayan culture and beliefs among all the Visayans.
    • This is a self-published source – not acceptable in a good article.
    • This source is almost like a press-release for an event, and does not directly support the statement it is cited for.
    • This is a blog post – again not acceptable per WP:SPS.
    • This source does not support the entire paragraph it is cited for.
    • The source The War against the Americans does not have any page number.
    • This is a dead link. The archived page does not have any author – again, not an optimal source by WP:RS standards.
    • This is a dead link.
    • This is a dead link.
    • No page number mentioned for F. V. Aguilar (1998).
    • This is a dead link.
    • No page number mentioned for B. McAllister Linn (2000).
    • No page number mentioned for K. T. Chee (2010).
    • Last two paragraphs in the Modern age section are unsourced.
  • Language
    • The table appears to be unsourced.
  • Culture
    • No page number for Abueg, E. R.; Bisa, S. P; Cruz, E. G. (1981).
    • No page number for A. R. Guillermo (2012).
    • No page number for Aguilar, F. V. (1998).
    • No page number for Tarling, N. (1992).
    • Festivals: Much of the first paragraph is unsourced.
    • [1] and [2] are archived dead links, and I wouldn't consider these as reliable sources. These are tourism advertisements.
    • [3] is a dead link.
    • "It was found by Filipino polymath..." paragraph is unsourced.
    • This is a blog post, not a reliable source
    • [4] – dead link, and not a reliable source
    • Much of the Cinema, television and theatre section is unsourced.
    • These seem to be self-published sources: [5][ http://people.bethel.edu/~shenkel/PhysicalActivities/Rhythms/Tinikling/TinikleIdeas.html]
    • Much of the Visual arts section is unsourced.
  • General comments:
    • References are a major problem in this article. Many of the sources are dead links, accessible only through archived URLs. Also, most of the sources are offline, so I'm unable to verify them. It'd be nice to have Google Books / other online links. At least some of these sources are available online. E.g. Antique revives Binirayan festival
    • It is not clear from the article if the Visayans are the only ethnic group inhabiting these islands (I believe this is not the case, considering that the article says "not all speakers identify themselves as ethnically Visayan"). If not, the relevance of some of the content to the Visayans as an ethnic group needs to be highlighted. This content includes the text contained in the sections Federal State of the Visayas, American colonization, Modern age, Present-day (population) etc. This information does not seem to be specific to Visayans as an ethnic group – it is about the Visayas, the geographic entity.

utcursch | talk 00:14, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Conclusion[edit]

Failed "good article" nomination[edit]

This article has failed its Good article nomination. This is how the article, as of March 28, 2016, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?:  Yes
2. Verifiable?:  No
3. Broad in coverage?:  Yes
4. Neutral point of view?:  Yes
5. Stable?:  Yes
6. Images?:  Yes

The main problem with this article is sourcing. As noted above, some of the references do not support the assertions made in the article (e.g. the ref about religion only talks about Central Visayas, not Visayans in general). A lot of the content in the article is unsourced or improperly sourced (e.g. dead links and missing page numbers). Also, the article needs to make a clear distinction between Visayans as an ethnic group or as a geographical identity -- some of the content seems to be about Visayas, the geographical division, and not necessarily related only to the Visayans, the ethnic group.

When these issues are addressed, the article can be renominated. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to have it reassessed. Thank you for your work so far. — utcursch | talk 00:58, 28 March 2016 (UTC)