|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Whistle register article.|
|WikiProject Opera||(Rated Start-class)|
|WikiProject Linguistics / Phonetics|
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/Archive 1- 2005-2007 discussions
"Children can also phonate in the whistle register as can some men, though McKinney states this to be quite rare" Should a person's name be included, and abbreviated, then they only appear in a reference and not anywhere proceeding this statement in the article? Sgrizzle (talk) 15:31, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
the notes and their respective frequencies are frequently incorrect and inconsistent
examples of C6 are given as both 1047hz and 2093hz
also a rare singer is mentioned who can hit G10. while i'm not disputing this, the frequency given for this note is over 25khz, far beyond the reach of human hearing (around 18khz for most human adults) as well as the overwhelming majority of sound recording and measuring apparatus (20-22khz).
Thanks for pointing out the inaccuracies. Part of the problem may be that different people tune pitches to different hertzes. Americans tune their notes higher than Europeans do (a fact that a lot of people don't know). Or it is posible that bad information has crept into the article or vandalism occured at some point and was not caught until now. I will investigate the matter.Nrswanson (talk) 21:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
There was some vandalism in regaurds to the high C frequencies and I edited those. I checked the other frequencies with Scientific pitch notation and they are correct. Also, the Guiness book does put Georgia Brown at G10 so that must be correct.Nrswanson (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
- I am sorry but I don't care where you read it or who quoted it. Homo sapiens cannot register much above 15 KHz. Period. If you want people to keep laughing at Wikipedia then you keep it up. This article is grossly shambolic.
- You're right only as far as the majority of older humans goes. However, I'm an audio engineer with grandchildren yet I've tested my hearing out to 17kHz. Sensations have been registered by test subjects made to listen to tones above 20k. Whatever source you have that says 15k maximum is woefully out of sync with science. Binksternet (talk) 21:57, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
- Two problems with your argument: First, saying that a human cannot produce a tone above X because a human couldn't hear it is like saying that humans don't radiate infrared light because we can't see it. Secondly, many humans, myself included, can hear well above 20 kHz. It's actually not as cool as one might think: I hear the buzz from a typical CRT TV like an unending siren wail. Rebbing (talk) 14:24, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
- I looked at the talk pages to see if anyone has commented on the 25087Hz claim and the discussion seems to have gone stale. Personally I think it is highly unlikely that anyone can sing at >25KHz and that anyone could hear it if it could be done. The reference points to the guinness book of records but the wikipedia article about Georgia Brown seems to imply that the claim is now regarded as invalid. I think the Georgia Brown sentence needs to be removed. Comments anyone? Mtpaley (talk) 23:31, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
There is just something wrong with this search field, Whistle register don't start at a certain note, that differs for everyone I'm a guy and I have a really low voice and I can use that 'whistle register' and it still quite low. I can hold it for a long time it's not my falsetto or whatever but I'm sure it's that what mariah uses to sound that high, this article is crap. I know it's original research but it's just wrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 20:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
- Some time ago when I did a bit or a rewrite on this article I included the line "Though the whistle register is most commonly used to produce pitches above E6, it can be used to produce lower pitches." The whistle register is a register, just like chest voice or head voice - in other words, it's a way of producing tones that sounds sufficiently different as to merit its own name. It has nothing to do with a particular pitch, though it's most commonly and most famously used by sopranos for very high pitches. Clearly I need to add that line back. -George (talk) 01:40, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
- Its a bit more complicated than that George but I definitely see where you are coming from. Pitch actually does play a factor in registers. There are three constituent elements with each register 1. a certain vibratory pattern of the vocal folds, 2. a certain series of pitches, and 3. a certain type of sound. In this case number two is important to remember and clarify. While its absolutely true that registers may overlap, they still are limited to a certain pitch range, which varies to some extent from person to person. In the case of the whistle register's pitch area, it overlaps somewhat with the pitch areas of the falsetto and modal registers but is clearly the highest vocal register. Also, I would avoid using the terms head register and chest register as those terms are not used in the sciences (remember whistle register is a term used in phonetics, speech pathology, and auditory sciences, not just singing) but only in vocal pedagogy (and there with a great deal of inconsistancy and controverssy).Nrswanson (talk) 02:33, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Her record has been discussed a bit above, but to avoid confusion with other conversations, I decided to start a new subsection. The article currently states "The female singer, Georgia Brown, was listed in the 2005 Guinness World Records for highest note (G10) ever reached, but this claim was removed by the time the 2007 edition came out due to a lack of any verifiable recording of such a feat." The latter statement uses Guinness World records 2007, page 366, as a reference. I'd appreciate it if someone who has that edition to hand could check on this: it's not usual for Guinness to publish retractions of previous records, but it is usual for some records which have not changed since the previous year to be omitted to make room for new records. I am therefore suspicious that the editor's good faith attribution of the reason for the record's ommission may be their own interpretation. Could someone please verify what, if anything, the 2007 edition actually says about Georgia Brown? Contains Mild Peril (talk) 22:08, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Lisa Fischer is one of the few prominent vocalists in both R&B and Rock and Roll music today-- (I think Mariah Carey is one of the only others that come to mind...) an attempt was made to place a clip from the Rolling Stones' Gimme Shelter from their 1995 album, Stripped to demonstrate her ability, but the clip came from a You Tube recording and wasn't clear. It would be a kindness if anyone has a clearer original version of that DVD performance to place a clip of her part in the song here. Having a couple clips from different genres would be essential in conveying how the whistle register sounds. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 12:49, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
- I agree that audio clips would be nice. However, along with any audio clip must come a published verifiable source which identifies the audio file as an example of whistle register. The last audio clip in my opinion was not a good example of whistle register... It sounded possibly like an employment of head voice with a mix of female falsetto. It didn't have enough of the characteristic "whistle" or flute like sound. Perhaps something like a Georgia Brown (Brazilian singer) clip (she is the world's highest singer) would be more appropriate. And a clip of something like The Bell song from the opera Lakme or the Der Hölle Rache aria from The Magic Flute would also be good.Plumadesabiduría (talk) 20:01, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Or take a piece of emotions of mariah carey, the whistles are very clear on this one and very loud you can identifie them immediately —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 17:06, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Need help clarifying notation.
I got to this sentence and my comprehension went way down: "The whistle register is the highest phonational register, that in most singers begins D6 and usually extends to about D above (D7 or 2349.3 Hz)." I'll look up phonational because I see a wikilink nearby but could somebody explain in the article what D6 is? I've studied organ, piano and voice and I never came across these terms before. I'm guessing it's the sixth D on the piano keyboard. If only I had a keyboard! A picture would be worth a thousand words! DBlomgren (talk) 02:21, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Men can use it in very rare instances
I've changed the wording that men can use the register in "very rare instances", to "some men" can use it. I do not believe it is "very rare" that men should be able to make whistle register sounds, just that most men don't experiment with this register. I can do it (thought not especially well) and am not a professional singer, and there are numerous examples on YouTube of men doing it, sometimes with impressive range and control; I see no reason to believe they are just "very rare" freaks of nature, they are just men with good whistle registers that they've worked on. Orlando098 (talk) 11:00, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Well can we change it to "quite" then, not "very"??? I can do it, my singing teacher can do it and tons of men on YouTube can do it. I don't see how it can be "very rare" Orlando098 (talk) 21:37, 1 October 2012 (UTC) Here is a video on how men can do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqO4hoNNQeU --- I re-edited the intro text and added this link at the bottom of the page. It's relevant to anyone who wants to know more about how to use this register. Also, that book cited is nearly 20 years old, there was no widespread internet, not many people knew what whistle voice was and few men were experimenting with it.
Request for semi-protection?
Given that this article is constantly being inundated with original research over the last several years (particularly when fans are wanting to add their favorite pop singers to the article), I am wondering if we shouldn't request a permanent semi-protection of this article. This is an issue that is not likely to ever end, and often the uncited inaccurate material has not been caught for months at a time. Thoughts?4meter4 (talk) 03:15, 5 July 2015 (UTC)