Talk:Yale University

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Signs of identity[edit]

Is it possible to comprise Yale's arms here as shown on this website? Personally, I can't distinguish between the coat of arms, seal and logo in terms of usage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.136.68.165 (talk) 04:50, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

One in four Maybe more[edit]

The university has a 300 year history. We should not give excessive weight to activism in the 1980s and 90s. A quick mention is appropriate in the section about those decades. I also think it wrong to give undue weight to the idea that Yale was or is the gay Ivy. Other schools like Harvard and Brown are similarly tolerant and progressive. I'd like to see better evidence before we make that claim. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of facts. Sourcing is a requirement but not the only one. Jehochman Talk 04:01, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Given that Yale has demonstrated a sort of ambivalence about being associated with gay studies pace the Larry Kramer Initiative, while Harvard has not (establishing the first endowed professorship in LGBT studies in the U.S.), I think that's fair. Yale is fairly welcoming to gay students, so some mention is warranted, but Yale's hardly unique in that. - Nunh-huh 22:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Remember, Wikipedia can't agree on the truth value of the statement "Yale is a prestigious university." How much more certain is Wikipedia that "Yale is *the* gay Ivy?" - Nunh-huh 22:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
The problem with prestigious is that it is vague puffery. Far better to make a precise statement like "rated top university multiple times" (cite by whom). Jehochman Talk 11:16, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
The fact is it is generally perceived as prestigious, not merely perceived by those associated with it as prestigious, which would be puffery. Yet Wikipedia can't or won't distinguish between the two, and "prestigious" and "rated high in college rankings" are not coextensive. And a citation that Osh-Kosh B'Gost College Ratings System considers Yale #3 in its ranking is [1] not only not the same thing, but also [2] not as useful as a bit of knowledge. This inability is a consequence of Wikipedia's construction rules, and is pretty much unsolvable. So we live with it, and I'm not really objecting to it or advocating we try to change it, I'm just acknowledging it makes us look ridiculous :). - Nunh-huh 19:36, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Halloween 2015 controversy[edit]

Collapsing comments by sockpuppet of blocked user
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I propose that an article be created over the 2015 Haloween controvery at Yale.It has received widespread attention across the media even including the international media. I have no idea what to name the article, and suggestions are welcome.

Here is a good article to start with:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/09/nyregion/yale-culturally-insensitive-halloween-costumes-free-speech.html

The above New York Times article links to this highly viewed YouTube video of a student criticizing a professor who defended students' right to dress up in Halloween costumes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0

More than 700 students and faculty have signed a petition demanding the resignation of administrators who defended students' right to wear Halloween costumes:

https://www.thefire.org/yale-students-demand-resignations-from-faculty-members-over-halloween-email/

Other sources:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/11/07/administrators-defending-student-free-speech-apparently-reason-for-dismissal-according-to-some-yale-students/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/06/amid-national-conversation-about-race-yale-acknowledges-failing-its-minorities/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/yale-halloween-costumes-offensive-free-speech_563e3f9ce4b0b24aee4a8fef

http://gawker.com/yale-is-imploding-over-a-halloween-email-1741191530?trending_test_e&utm_expid=66866090-62.H_y_0o51QhmMY_tue7bevQ.5&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3308422/Students-rage-professor-sent-email-telling-students-just-look-away-offended-Halloween-costumes.html

Dkl54gh65 (talk) 03:37, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

The story has made waves nationally and covered by the NYT, the WP and other mainstream outlets. Sure, Yale is over 300 years old, who made Randykitty and Lagrange613 arbiters of what should and what shouldn't be included in the Wikipedia? XavierItzm (talk) 14:14, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

John Hinckley, Jr.[edit]

If the information on his page is correct, then your addition to this page was technically accurate. But really? Enrolling in one writing course does not an alumnus make, and his association with the university is really slim. What's your point in this? StevenJ81 (talk) 21:44, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

I suspect the information on his page is not correct. If it were true, I would expect it to appear in a reliable source, such as this Newsweek article, where it is missing in the place you'd expect it if it were true. In Hinckley's article, the statement that he "enrolled in a Yale writing class" is sourced only to a fairly garishly designed web page with no credited author. In addition, Yale doesn't offer much in the way of non-degree writing classes, so it's hard to imagine what course is being thought of here. The non-degree program only takes about 5 students a year and is mostly used to complete a degree at another university or to qualify for admission to graduate schools. They don't generally accept people off the street who want to learn to "write good." So, though not disproven (Yale has, after all, graduated actual future murderers), I think it's unlikely, and it's fair to insist on a better source if it's going to be included as fact. - Nunh-huh 07:42, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
I suspect it is not correct, too. Still, the website belongs to a law professor from the University of Missouri at Kansas City, and while you are absolutely right that "Yale doesn't offer much in the way of non-degree writing classes", I don't know that it's utterly impossible, either. So it's hard for me to prove that the assertion is not correct. But even if it is, I don't see it being remotely relevant to this article. (I don't think it's at all necessary, but if one really wants to include a disreputable character in the list of former students, it would be better to include an actual murderer who earned a degree, no?) StevenJ81 (talk) 18:01, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
We're in accord. In addition, there are already probably too many "prominent" alumni mentioned in this article; anyone added at this point ought to be particularly renowned. - Nunh-huh 09:54, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Class of 2020[edit]

@Gui le Roi: Do you expect the Class of 2020 to be notable enough to get a page? Otherwise we should take out the link. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:47, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

I am not familiar with the US system. Probably, there should be an explanation of its meaning. Gui le Roi (talk) 16:50, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Family "crest"[edit]

In the caption to the picture of Elihu Yale's coat of arms, I substituted "coat of arms" for the word "crest" which was incorrect. The word "crest" refers only to the device that appears atop the shield, in this case the netted boar. In its most stripped down version, the coat of arms is the shield alone, but usually it includes the crest also.

A side issue is whether this can be called a "family" coat of arms. Under the British system of heraldry, no two men should have the same coat of arms, even in the same family. In armigerous families each man is supposed to "difference" his arms from those of his father, ancestors, brothers, and cousins. I don't know what the correct usage is in this case, however. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pithecanthropus4152 (talkcontribs) 22:45, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

I have no problem with what you've edited. Let me provide a couple of notes:
  • Under the British system of heraldry, no two men have the same arms while they are both living. However, the heir to the arms, who should have "differenced" the arms during his father's lifetime, begins to use the undifferenced arms after his father's death. So, in fact, the family does really have a "family" coat of arms. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:38, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
  • I think Yale tends to use the word "crest" rather than "coat of arms" because it appreciates that these shields are not fully realized coats of arms. Better to use the word "shield" or "escutcheon", I think, though I don't know whether in Yale's usage the escutcheons are necessarily fully incorporated. I have a friend I may consult on that whose father was intimately involved in much of this work at Yale during the twentieth century. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:38, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Section on Notable Alumni and Faculty[edit]

I wonder if we need to limit who gets added to the main article in this section. After all, we do have the articles List of Yale University people and List of Yale Law School alumni, which should provide more complete lists. If we assume that anyone worthy of those lists is worthy of the main article, why not include them? But then it will make the main article unwieldy. So what do we do?

Note:I certainly think anyone who makes it to the main article needs to be in one of the list articles.

Any thoughts from people? StevenJ81 (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I found this on WP:UNIGUIDE: "Noted people – This section should give a sense of the extent to which persons with well-known deeds or highly significant accomplishments are or have been associated with the school (as by attendance there or by being on staff or faculty). For most schools this might take the form of a list of people meeting Wikipedia's notability standards (each with perhaps a very brief descriptive phrase), where such a list would not be excessively long. For very old, very large, or very prestigious schools it may be more appropriate to use categories ("Alumni of", "Faculty of", etc.) instead, limiting the explicit list to very well-known persons (heads of state, historical figures, etc.) and adding a narrative summary of statistics on such things as Nobel Prizes, other prestigious awards, and so on" (emphasis added). Contributor321 (talk) 14:30, 26 September 2016 (UTC)