Talk:Yellow Peril

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject United States / Asian Americans (Rated Start-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Asian Americans (marked as High-importance).
 

Title[edit]

Anyone else think this should be moved to "Yellow Peril"? It seems like the right idea...elvenscout742 13:24, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly, actually. -Silence 22:12, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I don't generally watch this page, so I apologize if I'm stepping on anyone's toes. I just wondered if there was a citation for the attribution to Kaiser Wilhelm? I think it needs one.Cnilep 15:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Added this part about racism towards the Japanese[edit]

"and later to the Japanese during the mid 20th century due to Japanese millitary expansion. "

This was prevalent in WW2 era war films such as "Battle for China." The Japanese were refered to as the "yellow peril."

Indeed, the fact that the United States fought wars against Japan, North Korea (DPRK), and the China (the PRC's army fought in the Korean War) within a short time period and the effect of these wars on popular culture (films, radio featuring Asians as enemies) probably deserves more emphasis than it gets in this article. 98.223.227.120 (talk) 08:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Weasel words[edit]

"Individuals with racial bias in the Western United States emphasized the "yellow peril" as much as their counterparts in the Southern United States emphasized adverse stereotypes of African-Americans." Could this sentence be any worse?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.80.170.11 (talkcontribs) 03:17, 10 March 2006.

Gompers[edit]

Can someone source that Gompers quote? I'd like to use it at Sinophobia (where you're all invited to pitch in ;). Marskell 18:20, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Green Peril?[edit]

Considering that Oriental styled villains were given green skin in animated shows from the 80s to present,could "Green Peril" be used as an analogue?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by R.G. (talkcontribs) 15:46, 8 June 2006.

Yellow (People)[edit]

Wikipedia has a page on Black (People), White (People), yet not one on Yellow (People). Perhaps the phrase "Yellow (people)" should be included so the international affects of raciscm can be better recognized.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aminatam (talkcontribs) 09:53, 18 June 2006.

Might be because black and white found use in mainstream language while "yellow" continues to be a marginally racist term? -- Миборовский 21:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
I've met people from many countries and the word "Asian" is not so prefered because Asia is such a huge continent and people from different sub-region could look very different. Usually people from south and west Asia call themselves "Brown" and people from east, southeast and central Asia call themselves "yellow" (also with American aborigines). So I think "Brown" and "Yellow" could be used without a racist innuendo.Derekjoe (talk) 07:49, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


For the most part in my experience, people tend to use the term Oriental. Asian when in use in Europe tends to pertain to the Indian sub-continent. Except in a label for the Middle-East, it seems North America uses Asian as the term for the whole of Asia.

Nemogbr 20:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)--Nemogbr 20:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemogbr (talkcontribs)

Merge Sinophobia here[edit]

I'm 45 years of age. I used to see the term "yellow peril" regularly. And "yellow hordes" of course. The first time I've ever seen the term "sinophobia" is right now. Why consolidate on some neologism?

  • Sinophobia and yellow peril are two different concepts. Sinophobia is about dislike of Chinese by any national entity. Yellow peril is about dislike of East Asians (not just Chinese) by North American/European entities. Merging does not make sense at all here. ColourBurst 21:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

China[edit]

Continuing on the Chinese strand, does anyone think that Yellow Peril has revived (not under that term, of course) in the attitudes held by Americans about the Chinese? I've read about unease in the USA over China's rising economy, and it seems like a revival of this mindset. Brutannica 05:59, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Basically, the western world has been taken care of their global supremacy prudently. So all emerging powers will be seen as threats and enemies. There're already tons of evidence of the China demonization by western media in recent years, that could be included in this article as a new edition of sinophobia.Derekjoe (talk) 07:37, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Sino-Japanese War & Russo-Japanese War[edit]

There needs to be some reference here to the Sino-Japanese and Russo-Japanese Wars. Most historians agree that these two events engendered and exacerbated popular and political notions of the "Yellow Peril." I'll do it myself if I get the time, but if anybody is so inclined in the meantime...Lufclufc (talk) 19:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Not sure about the Sino-Japanese war, since both are representatives of the Yellow Peril, but the Russians during the Russian-Japanese did employ some anti-Asian rhetoric. For instance, the song about the cruiser Varyag, by far the most notable cultural artefact in the Russian culture connected with the Russo-Japanese war (see the Russian article), contains the following lines: "We shall die for the Motherland in the open sea, where the yellow devils lurk." Interestingly, the lines were removed from the song during World War I, when the Japanese were allied to Russia. --Humanophage (talk) 13:25, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

A bit inaccurate[edit]

This article seems to be written from a very PC/Trotskyite notion of racism. The concept of the "yellow peril" was not necessarily based on what the typical indoctrinated college student thinks of as "racism". If one reads Jack London for instance, it was more based on the very real observation that 1) there are lots of chinamen who are smart and capable and 2) they live in extreme poverty and thus will spread out throughout the world.

Compared to the more base kind of racism demonstrated by non-white groups towards white people, the concept of the yellow peril was simply the realization that conflict between whites and yellows was inevitable. Today, there are 50% more Han Chinese than all white people worldwide combined. It would seem that London et al were no fools. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.66.8.167 (talk) 15:44, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Fictions[edit]

In the Sexual fears section, there is a rather lengthy description of a "short" story. This is giving undue weight to an anonymous erotica short story. This gives the false impression that this "short" story is overwhelmingly better known that any one of the other listed fictions of that section. Moreover there are (unrelated?) duplicated citations linked to that description alone. Ergo, as per policy UNDUE, I removed that story's description. The original contributor is welcome to provide a more concise description for that story. Graviton-Spark (talk) 12:04, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Vietnam War[edit]

Why is there nothing about the Vietnam War here?

Feel free to add something if that what you want. I don't know if that is quite right as the Americans were fighting to protect the South Vietnamese government from being overthrown by the Viet Cong supported by North Vietnam, so the kind of official racism that was expressed against the Japanese in World War II was absent in Vietnam. But certainly, there were American G.Is fighting in Vietnam do have racist viewpoints about the Vietnamese.--A.S. Brown (talk) 02:51, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Few complaints[edit]

"Would had" is grammatically incorrect, i will change it. The Article is too big, one should be wary of adding too much unnecessary content, this is an encyclopedia, not a book on the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcosoldfox (talkcontribs) 06:29, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

There is a lot of ortography errors, I am trying to correct them. The writer keeps emphasizing on anti-semitism, racism and "white supremacism", but does not regard the era, circumstances and customs of the time in a neutral point of view. The label of white supremacy, for instance, was not common in the past times, and was not seen in such a negative light as the writer makes it. It seems there is some form of Bias to see leaders such as Willhem the Second as the only past leader who is "racist, white supremacist, hateful of Asians" when such stance had been common and expected at the time.

Is the part depicting a possible Germany-Japan Alliance in WW1 with the Zimmerman Telegram historically accurate?? I thought such Telegram was directed towards a German-Mexican alliance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcosoldfox (talkcontribs) 23:50, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Besides there is very little reliable sources here. Marcosoldfox — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcosoldfox (talkcontribs) 23:52, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, racism was very common in past times, but I really think you are wrong here, Marcosoldfox when you are claiming that the article is saying that white supremacy was seen in a negative light by white people at the time. Nowhere does the article say that; people like Demetrius Charles Boulger and Anatole France, who spoke out against anti-Asian racism were a minority at the time as the article makes clear. Wilhelm's Yellow Peril painting was frequently reproduced in the late 19th century, which is surely a testament to the fact that it was expressing fears that were widely held at the time. No, Wilhelm is not singled out in the way I believe you are suggesting. Nowhere does the article say that Wilhelm was seen in a negative light by most whites for expressing his anti-Asian racism or any other racism for that matter. The article also mentions that Nicholas II of Russia held the same viewpoint, it just is that Wilhelm being an extremely bombastic man, was especially vocal and loud about expressing his racism. Wilhelm was a big loud-mouthed, pompous, strutting idiot who always did everything over the top. Yes, other leaders also had racist viewpoints about Asians, but Wilhelm was the only one at the time who made it his official foreign policy to combat the "Yellow Peril", which surely marks him out as unique. Wilhelm was the one who kept on obsessively banging on to anyone who would listen about the Yellow Peril, to say nothing of his loathing for the Jews, so if that makes him look bad today, then that is his own fault. Pardon the pun, but we should be white-washing Wilhelm. Even if you do allow that such viewpoints by whites were common at the time, read the acclaimed biography by John C. G. Röhl, which makes clear that even by the (low) standards of his time, Wilhelm's racism was considered to be exceptional. For instance, Wilhelm staged the first genocide of the 20t century, namely the Herero and Namaqua Genocide. Nobody else at the time felt the need to wage a genocidal campaign of the sort that Wilhelm waged against the Herero people. Surely that makes him unique?

Moreover, I don't mean to make accusations here, but I really think your statement "The label of white supremacy, for instance, was not common in the past times, and was not seen in such a negative light as the writer makes it. It seems there is some form of Bias to see leaders such as Willhem the Second as the only past leader who is "racist, white supremacist, hateful of Asians" when such stance had been common and expected at the time" is profoundly wrong. You are talking here like only the opinions of whites matter. Did Asians or blacks for that matter at the time see white supremacy in a positive light? Even if you know only the slightest about Chinese history, Japanese history, Korean history, etc, you should be aware that the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans all vehemently rejected anti-Asian racism of the whites. Don't the opinions and feelings of Asians count? Or is there some unwritten rule that I am not aware of, that says only the opinions of whites count when it comes to writing history. Wilhelm anti-Asian statements at the time made a hate figure for Asians around the time. They certainly saw Wilhelm's anti-Asian racism in a very negative light. For that matter, they regarded everybody's anti-Asian racism in a extremely negative light. So why don't the feelings of Asians count here? Read any book or newspaper article from the early 20th century by anybody Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese, Burmese, etc and you will certainly see that Asians had a very low opinion of the people who proclaimed all this Yellow Peril nonsense. For the French at the time, it was quite acceptable to force Vietnamese peasants to do corvée, but the Vietnamese themselves had a very different viewpoint about the matter; the frequency of peasant revolts against the French in Vietnam testifies to that. For American whites, it was quite acceptable to lynch black Americans, but the lynched black person undoubtedly had a different opinion about this. For British people it might had been ok to have a sign outside of a social club saying "No dogs or Indians allowed", but Indians were not ok with that. I for one believe that the viewpoints of all people regardless of their skin color do matter, and I think that you are very wrong here, Marcosoldfox to discount the viewpoints of Asians. I do not believe you are racist, but I believe you have not thought enough about this matter, and I hope if you think about this some more, you will see the point that I am trying to make. Asians certainly were opposed to anti-Asian racism of the 19th and 20th centuries, and their viewpoints matter as much as the viewpoints of whites. It seems strange that the feelings of the 415,001,488 Chinese, 12,000,000 Koreans, 8,000,000 Filipinos,42,000,000 Japanese, 550,000 Lao, 15, 000, 000 Vietnamese, 9, 606, 000 Burmese, and 45,500,000 Indonesians who are living in 1900 should be dismissed out of hand, and instead the article should be saying that Wilhelm's anti-Asian phobia was not so bad because most white people at the time shared it to varying degrees.

Concerning anti-Semitism, yes quite a few people were anti-Semitic at the time, but even at this time, lots of people know it was wrong. The Dreyfus affair says a lot about the French, but least, one thing does come out is that at least there were people in France opposed to anti-Semitism. So where do the opinions of the anti-Dreyfusards matter more than the opinions of the Dreyfusards? Even in Russia, which was not the exactly the most friendly of countries towards Jews to put it mildly , in 1913 a Jew named Menahem Mendel Beilis who was accused of murdering and eating Christian boys for Passover was acquitted by all-Christian jury at the end of a sensational trial. So at very least, quite a few people at the time saw anti-Semitism as wrong. And you have any further doubts about this issue, please read the article on anti-Semitism from the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Finally, the Zimmermann telegraph was meant to create a German-Mexican-Japanese alliance. The telegraph asks that the Mexican government pass on to the Japanese government the German message to restart talks which were broken off in the spring of 1916 about having Japan join the Central Powers. Take care, Marcosoldfox. --A.S. Brown (talk) 02:47, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Firstly I believe you have misread my argument, and there has been a huge misunderstanding. I had stated : Template:"The label of white supremacy, for instance, was not common in the past times, and was NOT seen in such a negative light as the writer makes it", and your reply has been that : Template:"I really think you are wrong here, Marcosoldfox when you are claiming that the article is saying that white supremacy WAS seen in a negative light by white people at the time." What I have stated, is EXACTLY that white supremacy was NOT seen in such a negative light; and when I have stated that the label of white supremacy was not common in the past times, I have not meant that the act of what we currently refer to as White Supremacy itself was not common, but that the LABEL and the USAGE OF THE WORD of White supremacy was not common at the time. I reinforced the thought that at the time there was no labeling of white supremacy, and even if it did, it would not be seen in a negative light or fashion, thus making the racist and prejudicial acts of the European leaders at the time common and usual. I am repeating the fact it was not seen negatively by the European populace and the European majority living in the countries of european majority. What made me argue on this article, was just the fact it was common and normal to have racist attitudes toward non asians at the time, and I argue it was NOT seen as a negative light to do so, but the article written constantly implies to it as if we had no knowledge of such, and that it was something completely new and inherently "evil", and even some emotion implied in the text. Also, I have never intended to imply that the opinions of Asians or blacks did not matter, I just assumed that, since we were referring to the Yellow Peril as proposed by the European leaders, we would firstly assume the reactions and the opinions of the populace under these same European leaders, not mainly the reaction and the injustice suffered by those other non-european people, viewed by an strictly asian perspective.

When I had issued complaints on this article on the subject of labels used in it, such as white supremacism, I referred myself to the modern usage and connotation of the word which was not common or normal in the given time and age, The negative connotation of White supremacism, and our politically correct definition of "racism" itself has been a relatively modern phenomenon. It seems to me that the article seems very differentiated from other main wikipedia articles, because its tones and usage of words seem not to be completely neutral or impartial. I wish not to argue in favor of any form of racism directed against non-whites, I wish only to ascertain the manner on which the populaces of the European countries viewed it, and how it was considered "mundane" or "normal" at the time. One of the most important aspects of a Wikipedia article should be its neutrality and impartiality, and so I decided to reconsider terms such as "racism" or "white supremacy" when it obviously was uncommon to be used at the given time, age and narrative. Again I do not wish to disconsider your knowledge of the historical facts and of the suffering and discrimination that asians and other ethnicities suffered throughout history, I wish only to describe and narrate the article more impartially, and neutrally. What made me argue, was that I have noticed, that you put a considerable amount of emotion and even some outrage on the acts of leaders such as Willhem the Second or Nicholas the Second, it is important to note I am not defending or arguing for them in any way, but in order to achieve a more professional and encyclopedia-wise article, I would genuinely suggest more neutrality and principally restraint of any form of emotion or modern day labeling; such as the modern connotation of "racism" in the article. I suggest an impartial writing and usage of words in the articles regarding racism of whites against non whites and an European form of writing and perspective (since the Yellow Peril obviously refers to the connotation and views the Europeans had of Asians), just as much as I suggest the same to be written in an asian like historical perspective on articles regarding chinese or asian racism to non asians. It would be best suited, since the article is about the european perspective of asians, not to have an strictly asian view of the subject. Again, I am not arguing for or against any of the barbarism and salvagery of discrimination and racism itself, I wish only to ascertain its narrative and usage at the time. I sincerely never meant to offend the Asian race, readers, viewers, historical characters or anything of the kind, for I, again, only argue for more neutrality in wikipedia articles, and that only. I must ask, what does the term "Bombastic" mean when you say it? Are you aware that the definition of the term is : (of speech, writing, etc.) high-sounding; high-flown; inflated; pretentious.

I appreciate your very informative replies on the matter, and I will make sure to become more informed on the subject. You seem very educated at this topic and I apologize if anything I had said offended you. I have noticed many of the references of this article are from books and magazines which seem of very high, academic quality and pricing, and are directed toward very academical and university wise audiences. Making this article a very interesting, informative one, but unfortunately, they do not seem to be freely available on the internet, thus becoming somewhat unreliable to wikipedia due to possible misconceptions or distortions of the contents from the sources. You must be very educated in Asian studies, may I ask, are you graduated from an Asian Studies university in China or another Asian Country?

MarcosoldfoxMarcosoldfox (talk) 16:54, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Lies and Wikipedia[edit]

"Wilhelm was a fanatical white supremacist who loathed Asian peoples" ... "to defend their "dearest goods" was an elaborate sexual pun" and so on and so on in that whole paragraph. I would much like to see reliable citations on that whole field, especially, but not only, considering the painting. Even the translation "dearest goods" is plain wrong, in fact it is "most holy goods". Also, the painting as such is open to a quite different interpretation - the front female warrior might, in accordance with the iconology of the time, well be Germania as personification of Germany, who is led together with the others by Michael, who is then not a personification of Germany, but of the Christian Occident. Bad article quality, which I do not want to attempt to correct or rewrite, but which unmasks itself as ideology- and hate-driven to the impartial reader. 195.37.190.154 (talk) 15:47, 15 May 2015 (UTC)