Talk:Yul Brynner

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Birthdate incorrect?[edit]

I think yul brynner's birthday may be wrong. 7/7 may be pict from him or somone else who knew that he was born in Summer. The reason why I came to this conclusion is the fact that in 1915 the mother gave birth to the child in the house or wherever happened to be in that moment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.252.38 (talk • contribs) 16:03, 25 September 2003

  • I found one (german) size which give July 12 [1], several others say July 11. Encyclopedia Brittanica give July 11, 1920? (including the question mark). To add to the confusion Russia had the Julian calendar at that time, thus having an offset of several days to the rest of the world. --andy 16:14, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)
  • I just changed the date to say July 7, 1915, which is what IMDb says...the 7/7 may be inaccurate, but the 1920 that it previously says was certainly inaccurate, as it disagrees with the article itself, which says he was 70 when he died in 1985, as well as the Magnificent Seven article, which says that Brynner was older than Eli Wallach-Alex. --68.110.114.40 06:04, 31 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

His tombstone says he was born in July 11, 1920 so that's probably the correct birthdate.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.231.84.164 (talk • contribs)

A tombstone can say whatever the people in charge of the funeral want it to say. My grandmother's tombstone says that she was born in 1920, while in fact she didn't know the date or a year of her birthday herself (the building housing the records burned down when she was very little, the country was in a turmoil at the time, and by the time record-keeping became important there were no means to find out for sure). The point here is that we need a more reliable source for the birthdate, and so far the SSN record is the best there is available.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:01, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

1920 - Russian Empire??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Eastern_Republic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSFSR

I noticed this too. If he was indeed born in 1920, it would have been in the RSFSR, USSR. --Rhombus (talk) 09:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

To add to the list of different birthdates, the "International Directory of Films and Filmmakers - Actors and Actresses - Second Edition" (1992) shows his birthdate to be July 12, 1915. - Cosmo1976 (talk) 00:36, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity[edit]

Was he ethnically Russian, Tatar or what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.224.97.8 (talk • contribs) 16:39, 28 November 2003

  • The Wikipedia Roma people article claims he was Roma, true? --AHands 18:05, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • What on earth is a Swiss-Mongolian? Certainly such a term should not link to Switzerland? john k 30 June 2005 16:10 (UTC)
  • According to his son Rock's book, he was 1/4 Swiss, 1/4 Mongolian, 1/4 ethnic Russian, 1/4 Jewish (his maternal grandfather, who converted to Christianity). Interesting to note that his background is almost exactly like Lenin's (he was 1/4 Russian, 1/4 Asiatic, 1/4 converted Jewish and 1/4 Swedish). --Vulturell 08:56, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • I read on the Almanch de Bruxelles that is grandmother was a Mongoian princess, descended from Ghengas Khan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack9293 (talk • contribs) 23:01, 19 November 2005
  • Amazing. Reading his background and ethnicity, it would seem he's nothing but jewish! Though, I dont know who's editing all this information, Yul Brynner "NEVER" CALLED HIMSELF Jewish. No Interviews. He's buried at a "Christian Cemetery" and also has a memorial at a Russian Orthodox Cemetery. I dont know if someone is trying to prove something specifically, I guess, if we dig far enough, we can easily state we are all related to Adam & Eve. My godmother was friends with his sister Vera, and both of them are deceased to start asking any questions. However, I definitely know he was of Russian descent, and never hid that, and showed alot of interest in Russian and Gypsy music. Shokorus (talk) 19:06, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Almost all Tartar are Muslims, It would not surprise me if he was Muslim even though he might have been buried in a Christian cemetery.SamLowenstein (talk) 18:01, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Russian actor?[edit]

Why would you say he was a Russian actor? Did he ever play in Russia (rhetorical question). He had a (mainly Russian) complicated origin, but was an American actor. --Quatrocentu 05:21, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

He was Russian and was an actor; therefore he was a Russian actor, even if he never acted in Russia. Wiki editor 6 (talk) 22:55, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Brenner's gypsy music[edit]

Before World War II, Yul played russian gipsy-guitar and songs in a specified russian gipsy-language. Somewhere circa 1965 he recorded some russian and gipsy-songs which he performed together with the famous gipsy Aliosha Dimitrivitch; the LP-record 33rpm stereo was labeled by "Vanguard". IF POSSIBLE TO GET THIS RECORD again, I would be very pleased if you would e-mail me this to : WOLODIA1@HOTMAIL.COM . Thank you for beeing so kind and nice greetings, Wladimir Nowikow —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.161.41.10 (talk • contribs) 20:11, 22 December 2005

More evidence for Gypsy / Roma heritage ?[edit]

http://www.imninalu.net/famousGypsies.htm

Yul Brynner (Vladivostok, 7/7/1915 - New York, 10/10/1985)

An undoubtedly controversial person, his origins have been a mystery for many. Actually he had only 1/4th of Romany blood, and 1/4th Jewish, by his mother Marousia Blagovidova, whose father was a Russian Jew and her mother a Russian Gypsy. It was anyway among Roma that he began his adventurous life, playing guitar in Romany circles and working as a trapezist in circus. He was elected honorary president of the Roma, an office that he kept until his death.

Any thoughts? 81.77.78.217 18:22, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

He has no Romani descent!! This is just one of the legends of which he invented! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.179.84.19 (talk) 18:11, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Questions about his names[edit]

We need to tell more of the chronology of his name changes, but there are some questions.

  • He was born in Russia as Юл Борисович Бриннер. This surname would normally be transliterated as Brinner, but we say Bryner. Why is that? Бриннер (with two Crylic/Russian н's which are pronounced "n" in English) does not become Bryner (one n) without some intermediate step. Or maybe it is just somebody's assumption about the original Russian spelling. Is there a documentary source for this?
  • We "say" or we "write"?
  • Was "Bryner" the way his Swiss forbears spelt the name? In that case, why did they double the "н" when it became a Russian name?
  • According to IBDB and IMDB, on Broadway he was first billed as "Youl Bryner". This suggests the Western spelling of his surname was the single n version originally, and the second n was added later. When did this happen? JackofOz 23:27, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Re Борисович Бриннер. ThCrylic letter "и" is often translated with a "y" but pronounced like a short i.SimonATL (talk) 19:14, 1 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The excellent discussion above undescores the futility of providing foreign alphabet spelling such as Cyrilic. All such should be purged from Wikipedia. English Wiki articles should be 100% entirely in Roman alphabet. I have deleted useless, contentious Cyrillic from this article. --NCDane (talk) 00:57, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid you don't get to make unilateral decisions like that. If you seriously think this should be the case, raise it in policy discussion, don't just run around deleting people's contributions because you alone disagree with them. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 18:14, 19 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Born in 1915, or 1920?[edit]

I seem to be able to find an equal amount of sources online that say he was born in 1920 as sources that say he was born in 1915. Similarly, several accounts of his death indicate that he was 65 when he died, while others (such as this Wikipedia entry) say he was 70. See: Yahoo! Movies or this article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution for sources that cite Brynner's age at the time of his death as 65, not 70. Mchesnut 20:54, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hi. The Yul Brynner Foundation may be a reliable source, see [[2]]. It reads July 11, 1920. Regards: Akela <akela3@freemail.hu> User:145.236.220.89 21:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Which date is correct? The article keeps switching back and forth between 1915 and 1920. Hotwine8 03:05, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I found this: "From All Movie Guide: During his lifetime, it was hard to determine when and where actor Yul Brynner was born, simply because he changed the story in every interview; confronted with these discrepancies late in life, he replied, "Ordinary mortals need but one birthday." 87.50.196.118 (talk) 21:38, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

His tombstone says he was born in July 11, 1920 so that's probably the correct birthdate.

Date of son's adoption?[edit]

How could he adopt a son five years after his death? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.36.129.2 (talk • contribs) 15:43, 11 May 2006

Filmography[edit]

I'm not sure that the filmography listing for Cool Runnings is appropriate, since "Yul Brynner" was the name of a character, not an actor. Also, I'd have to watch the film again, but I believe that there aren't any photos of "the real" Yul Brynner in the film. --SignpostMarv 00:37, 03 June 2006 (GMT)

Perhaps archival footage was used int he film, like in a background tv screen or something? Sort of like Laurence Olivier was used in Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow?--Lendorien 22:23, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Death smoking related?[edit]

Where is the proof that his cancer was the result of smoking? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.171.237.67 (talk • contribs) 04:05, 24 July 2006

I am as a physician absolutely agree with previous note. Cancer only CAN be result of smoking, but the precise cause of cancer is always uncertain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.0.210.102 (talk) 13:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since this cause is not proven, it will be deleted. Mal7798 (talk) 22:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yul was a chain smoker. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.8.245.132 (talk) 12:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yul smoked about 5 packs a day (I believe this was by his own admission). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelvin8 (talk • contribs) 09:15, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Brynner died of lung cancer, the vast majority of cases of which are caused by smoking. Whilst it is possible that something else caused the disease that caused his death, it is highly unlikely. He stated that his cancer was caused by his smoking. Wiki editor 6 (talk) 22:55, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • He smoked the packs too? Smoking cigarettes is hazardous, but smoking them with the packs is completely ludicrous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.76.79.190 (talk) 09:52, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yul Brynner's book "Bring Forth the Children ... Forgotten People"[edit]

Hi! Yul Brynner also published a book in 1960, called: Bring Forth the Children: A Journey to the Forgotten People of Europe and the Middle East with Inge Morath. I cannot find it and I urgently need to know if this book is also dealing with the Roma(Gypsy)-people? Does anybody know it? Can anyone help me? PLEASE! Thank you very much!! - O. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.115.146.119 (talk • contribs) 08:08, 18 August 2006

Death[edit]

I am changing where it is noted a "commericial" was made using an interview of his warning against smoking after his death. What was made was called a Public Service Announcement (PSA), not a commerical. Even though he refers to it as a "commerical" himself, technically it's incorrect. A commericial is used to sell some sort of product or service. --Hokgwai 02:17, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the PSA was taken from the Mike Douglas Show, not Good Morning America. 173.100.43.54 (talk) 21:18, 29 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He was also on "Saturday Night Live", encouraging kids not to smoke.184.99.144.178 (talk) 03:45, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Later life?[edit]

Brynner's last film appearance was in 1976 - or 1980, if you count the narration of "Lost to the Recolution". He died in 1985, just after the "King and I" revival. What did he do in between 1980 and 1985? 86.136.251.18 18:09, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He toured in The King and I for YEARS. Monkeyzpop 19:18, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Years active in infobox - 1980?[edit]

Brinner was active on stage through 1985, according to the article, but the infobox says years active only through 1980 (with the wiki markup indicating active in film). Is there a way to show that he was active through 1985 in theater? --Zippy (talk) 06:28, 17 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That famous head[edit]

They must have gone through a million heads before they discovered his, which is perfectly shaped. All I want to know is, was he bald or did he shave it?129.93.17.117 (talk) 01:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)Tom[reply]

He was naturally quite bald (there is a photo of him with his infant son, Rock, which verifies this). He shaved it for "The King and I" in it's original run. The look stuck. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelvin8 (talk • contribs) 09:10, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If he was naturally bald, why did he need to shave his head? What would there be to shave? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:59, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I imagine he still had fringes, as most men with male-pattern baldness do. marbeh raglaim (talk) 21:43, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Languages?[edit]

Does anybody have any info (reliable sources, please) on what languages he spoke? From his bio information I make out the list of possible/likely languages as Russian, possibly Hebrew, possibly Mandarin Chinese, French, and English. -- 201.17.36.246 (talk) 03:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Russian, French (Brynner lived in France for several years [1934-1941]) and English. -- 88.178.38.7 (talk) 20:11, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jewishness[edit]

The Wikipedia articles state that he was Jewish on both his mother's and father's side. However it is unlikely that he was Jewish to that extent. If you see the famous nude photgraph of him by David Platt you will see that he was uncircumscized. Jewish men are never uncircumcized.18 September, 2008 [[User:|Trismegistus48]] (talk) 01:21, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • snort* You think they're born without a foreskin? The claim is that he was of Jewish heritage. When speaking of one's religion, "half" or other partitives do not make much sense. 72.187.69.245 (talk) 11:22, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hey *snort*; Trismegistus48 did not insinuate they are: "born circumcised." He Said: No orthodox Jewish man is uncircumcised. He Could be Of Jewish Heritage and not be circumcised, true.184.99.144.178 (talk) 03:55, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

American citizen?[edit]

The article fails to mention whether he gained U. S. citizenship. If he did, when was that, and did he retain his Soviet citizenship as well? Wiki editor 6 (talk) 22:55, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cultural impact[edit]

What about mentioning his cultural legacy? I reminded of it as I was listening to Stephen Malkmus' famous song Jo Jo's Jacket, about Yul Brynner. Worth mentioning? What do you think? (83.240.239.233 (talk) 20:03, 17 August 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Mistakes in Article[edit]

Murray Head referenced Yul Brynner in his song, "One Night in Bangkok" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:558:6007:47:5194:55AF:223F:48DA (talk) 05:18, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Brynner did not "launch his film career in 1956", having appeared in the 1949 movie Port of New York. He also did not "maintain" his shaven head after adopting it in the role in The king and I, since he made at least two movies that I know of with his own hair; The Sound and the Fury, and The Buccaneer. 87.115.181.151 (talk) 20:48, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yul did not have a full head of hair, having gone bald rather early in life. There are photos that verify this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelvin8 (talk • contribs) 09:12, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Storey vs. story[edit]

It's not worth an edit war, but "story" when used for the floor level of a building is not a "misspelling" but rather the more common spelling of the word. "Storey" is correct, but listed in most dictionaries as a British alternative spelling. Brynner, whatever his heritage, was by no means British, so WP guidelines would suggest the American spelling fits better, since he was a naturalized American. Monkeyzpop (talk) 23:03, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But was he naturalised? Where, when? There's an unanswered question above about this very issue. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 02:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Confusion with Yul Brenner[edit]

Should there be a mentions somewhere that he is not to be confused with Yul Brenner, a member of the 1988 Jamaica national bobsled team and character in the 1993 film Cool Runnings? Brauden (talk) 02:30, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just added a hatnote for that. —BarrelProof (talk) 02:10, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

radio work in WWII for Voice of America to France[edit]

See our article in Julien Green

G. Robert Shiplett 13:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

China[edit]

To clarify my edit. His mother moved to Harbin, Manchuria; not China. However, Manchuria is now part of China. The statement about moving to China is incorrect. For example, Manchuria is not a country now, it is part of China. But Angela Merkel was not born in Germany, she was born in West Germany. Shall we update every person in wikipedia to reflect the current geo-political lines of where they were born, raised, or travelled? Or should we just stick to the facts. It is not right to say that his mother went to China with her children, because she did not. She went to Manchuria, instead of China. Context is not only important in discussion, it is necessarily important in an encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fomeister (talk • contribs) 16:34, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's a debatable point. If Yul Brynner is a Russian, then dozens of Hollywood actors and actresses from the mid-20th century will need to be reclassified as Lithuanians, Belarussians and so on.Eregli bob (talk) 03:30, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Burial place[edit]

I have removed "Russian" from the description of the Orthodox monastery where Brynner's remains are buried.

At the time of Brynner's burial, Saint-Michel-de-Bois-Aubry Monastery was part of the Orthodox-Catholic Church of France (l'Eglise Catholique-Orthodoxe de France, or l'ECOF). While ECOF was originally formed by the Russian Orthodox Church in 1936 it ceased to be part of the Russian Church in 1966, some 19 years prior to Brynner's death. In any case, the monastery did not become part of ECOF until 1978, by which point ECOF was part of the Romanian Orthodox Church (since 1972). Therefore, the monastery has never been Russian Orthodox, and it is inaccurate to refer to Brynner's burial place as a Russian Orthodox monastery.

Since 2006 the part of the grounds where Brynner's remains lie is privately owned, while the portion which functions as the monastery is part of the Orthodox Church of the Gauls. Bertelin (talk) 07:58, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Naturalization Record[edit]

I no longer have the time I once did for contributing to Wikipedia, however I thought it may be notable to post that Yul Brynner's petition for US nationality (Declaration of Intent) is available in digital form at the national archives. It includes a photo and biographical information. [3] --Ando228 (talk) 03:41, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The location listed above has changed slightly to this: [4]. It is also located at WikiSource: [5] For simplicity I went ahead and provided some of the info here (I've included the items numbers and original question are in italics; spelling is exactly as it appears on the document; I put a hyphen between the questions and his provided answers):
(1) My full, true, and correct name is - JULES BRYNER also Youl Bryner;
(4) I am - 22 - years old;
(5) I was born on - July 11th, 1920 - in - Vladivostock Syberia Russia;
(6) ... present nationality - Swistzerlerland;
(9) My last place of foreign residence was Dairen South Manchuria;
(10) I emigrated to the United States from - Kobe Japan;
(11) My lawful entry for permanent residence in the United States was at - San Francisco, California, under the name of - Jules Brynner ...

__209.179.36.56 (talk) 21:25, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Item (11) is "... under the name of - Jules Bryner", not "Jules Brynner". —BarrelProof (talk) 02:31, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Citizenships[edit]

The article says he had Swiss and American citizenships. Given that he was born in Vladivostok in 1920, he probably was also a Russian citizen during some or all of his life, wasn't he? —BarrelProof (talk) 02:16, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jenisch/Yeniche[edit]

Brynner's "Roma ancestry" cannot be proven. Instead, his ancestral family, the Briner/Brinner have been proven to live in Switzerland as basket weavers since centuries. Those Briner are not Roma/Sinti/Manouche/... originating in India but Jenische which have been shown DNA-wise to be of purely European stock. One still can find living Briner in Switzerland. Jenische/Yeniche, Irish Travellers and Scottish Travellers on the one side and Roma/et al on the other side may partially share their culture with each other; ethnically they are not related. The term "Gypsy" which has been misleadingly used by American televison makers disinforming the masses also wrongly confuses, mixes up and blurs the origins of these two ethnicities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:8C:4C0A:3100:A1DE:A93B:1514:7A1 (talk) 12:49, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Whitewashing in film[edit]

There is an ongoing discussion about how to write about Yul Brynner's casting for The King and I at the Wikipedia article whitewashing in film. Editors who are familiar with weighing sources about Yul Brynner are invited to comment. The discussion can be found here. Thanks, Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 02:06, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Same-day death.[edit]

Brynner died the same day as director/screenwriter/actor Orson Welles, who was five years Brynner's senior.Maccb (talk) 04:07, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Daily Telegraph article[edit]

Here's an interesting article in this week's newspaper that editors here might find of use: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/hollywoods-king-mean-bald-truth-yul-brynner/ Nick Moyes (talk) 14:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Return of the 7[edit]

This article claims he "enjoyed a hit with Return of the 7," but the Return of the Seven article suggests it was a flop with only 6 million at the box office, and the source on this page is a dead link. 140.180.240.29 (talk) 10:02, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Typo error?[edit]

Boris Briner's work required extensive travel, and in 1923, he fell in love with an actress, Katya Kornukova, at the Moscow Art Theatre, and, soon after, abandoned his family. Yul's mother took his elder sister, Vera (January 17, 1916 – December 13, 1967), and him to Harbin, China, where they attended a school run by the YMCA.

To be 3 years old to fall in love? Surely this is a typo. Would it be 1932?

92.238.41.43 (talk)Richard 13:36pm 7th June 2021

Boris Briner was Yul Brynner's father, who fell in love with actress, Katerina Kornukova, at the Moscow Art Theatre. Steveshelokhonov 19:10, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Does his family live with him today? And if not why?[edit]

Does he even live in the US and if so where? 184.103.62.60 (talk) 07:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

He died in 1985. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 12:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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