Talk:Zoroaster

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DATE[edit]

Zoroaster - Is displayed in the Painitng of Raphael Sanzio 1509-1511 - Plato knows his work - He does a lot in Astrology - Astrology is earlyest 3000 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology So if we all agree that this statement is true, we can delete the spam comment 70.73.62.215 (talk) 03:22, 14 October 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_School_Of_Athens

He is obviously connected with the Achaemenid dynasty, as he is called the persian.

Avestan Zaraθuštra is generally accepted to derive from an Old Iranian *zarat-uštra-, which is in turn “perhaps”[1] a zero-grade form of *zarant-uštra-. This is supported by reconstructions from later Iranian languages – in particular from Middle Persian Zartosht, which is the form the name has in the ninth- to twelfth-century Zoroastrian texts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_dynasty

Zoroaster was Central Asian Aryan. Zar gold in Avestan, Ustra Camel in Avestan, Zar yellow in Rigvedic Sanskrit Ustra Camel in Rigvedic Sanskrit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.101.228 (talk) 18:21, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

The town flourished and attained prominence and political repute with the rise of the first Babylonian dynasty. It was the "holy city" of Babylonia by approximately 2300 BC, and the seat of the Neo-Babylonian Empire from 612 BC. The Hanging Gardens of Babylon were one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.

Under Cyrus and the subsequent Persian king Darius the Great, Babylon became the capital city of the 9th Satrapy (Babylonia in the south and Athura in the north), as well as a centre of learning and scientific advancement. In Achaemenid Persia, the ancient Babylonian arts of astronomy and mathematics were revitalised and flourished, and Babylonian scholars completed maps of constellations. The city was the administrative capital of the Persian Empire, the preeminent power of the then known world, and it played a vital part in the history of that region for over two centuries. Many important archaeological discoveries have been made that can provide a better understanding of that era. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon

From this Article The second, and "more serious"[24] factor for the association with astrology was the notion that Zoroaster was a Babyloniann. The alternate Greek name for Zoroaster was Zaratas/Zaradas/Zaratos (cf. Agathias 2.23-5, Clement Stromata I.15), which—so Cumont and Bidez—derived from a Semitic form of his name. The Pythagorean tradition considered the mathematician to have studied with Zoroaster in Babylonia (Porphyry Life of Pythagoras 12, Alexander Polyhistor apud Clement's Stromata I.15, Diodorus of Eritrea, Aristoxenus apud Hippolitus VI32.2). Lydus (On the Months II.4) attributes the creation of the seven-day week to "the Babylonians in the circle of Zoroaster and Hystaspes," and who did so because there were seven planets. The Suda's chapter on astronomia notes that the Babylonians learned their astrology from Zoroaster. Lucian of Samosata (Mennipus 6) decides to journey to Babylon "to ask one of the magi, Zoroaster's disciples and successors," for their opinion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster

While the theorem that now bears his name was known and previously utilized by the Babylonians and Indians, he, or his students, are often said to have constructed the first proof. It must, however, be stressed that the way in which the Babylonians handled Pythagorean numbers, implies that they knew that the principle was generally applicable, and knew some kind of proof, which has not yet been found in the (still largely unpublished) cuneiform sources.[5] Because of the secretive nature of his school and the custom of its students to attribute everything to their teacher, there is no evidence that Pythagoras himself worked on or proved this theorem. For that matter, there is no evidence that he worked on any mathematical or meta-mathematical problems. Some attribute it as a carefully constructed myth by followers of Plato over two centuries after the death of Pythagoras, mainly to bolster the case for Platonic meta-physics, which resonate well with the ideas they attributed to Pythagoras. This attribution has stuck, down the centuries up to modern times.[6] The earliest known mention of Pythagoras's name in connection with the theorem occurred five centuries after his death, in the writings of Cicero and Plutarch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoras

So Zoroaster & Pythagoras Connection ... so this guy is possible older than P, maybe 50 years.

Who was the first monotheist? Abraham,Zoroaster or Akhenaton?

There is a section of debate that "Jarutha" in Rigveda 7th Mandala being a rival of VasishTha, does represent the "JaruthoSTra" or Zarathustra. In such a case, even if the name comes to be Zarota, there is no need to look for a Semitic derivation - the name still remains clearly Indo European. Kiron Krishnan (talk) 17:38, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Haoma[edit]

In the life section it says 'He opposed the use of the hallucinogenic Haoma...'. Yet on the Haoma article it says it is used in Zoroastrian rituals. Is this a contradiction, if not why not? Jonpatterns (talk) 12:46, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

In fact, in this age of developed understanding of Indo European poetry and riddles and thoughts, we need to really introspect ourselves whether we should purposely deny the Rigvedic metaphors. The Rigvedic soma except in some of stanzas of ninth mandala could be equally symbolised, and a tenth mandala verse does talk explicitly about soma symbolism. It should be that soma cult was a BMAC product in late Rigvedic / Iranian culture, an intrusion which the spiritual bards did not want to accept. Similar kind of aversion is seen to horse sacrifice in Rigveda, where unlike common (mis)interpretations, the poet actually uses pun words till the end that mock the ritual and concludes it by explicitly stating that horse does not die and has easier paths left to travel. Moreover, the horse is yoked to the pole with his old companions. (RV 1.162 last lines) The poet also ends the poem with a very sarcastic prayer that let the infinite forgive the sins. The subsequent poem symbolises the horse and equates it to sun (RV 1.163). The reason why I told is that both Rigvedic and Avestan periods had much tribes and clashes among them. The poets and wise preferred spirituality (in RV 7.103, the Brahmins who mutter without knowing things are mocked as frogs and heavy satire like the Ashvamedha RV 1.162 is written) over ritualism, the commons still interpreted the words in such a way that they could continue with the ritual religion. (This is seen in Avestans and later Vedic India, where Brahmanic school of (mis)interpretation started) Kiron Krishnan (talk) 17:31, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

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Article contradicts itself on the date[edit]

he is dated by scholars as a contemporary or near-contemporary of Cyrus the Great

in the lead appears to contradict

Scholars generally place Zarathushtra as having lived in north-east Iran or northern Afghanistan some time between 1700 and 1300 BC

in the body. Can someone verify what the sources say? If they both say what our article attributes to them, one must be either outdated or wrong. Hijiri 88 (やや) 22:23, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

There is no general consensus on the date, some scholars consider earlier while others later date, and both should be in the lead. Recently the article was edited, and probably thus the change. Someone should do a research on both Zoroaster and Zoroastrianism as they are an important topic, there several statments without reference, however, it should be noted that some Christian or Judaist teologist sources tend to have a bias toward Zoroastrianism, and often show ideological constructions which diminish the origin, reality and influence of the religion in comparison to the Abrahamic religions, see for example Talk:Zoroastrianism#Date of origin of Zoroastrianism where is also mentioned Zoroaster.--Crovata (talk) 22:34, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Since have substantial knowledge and several sources at hand will edit the article.--Crovata (talk) 22:55, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Abrahamic religions[edit]

Yes the statement "Zoroaster's teaching about individual judgment, Heaven and Hell, resurrection of the body, Last Judgment, and everlasting life for the reunited soul and body, among others became borrowings in the Abrahamic religions ..." has a source, but nonetheless it is widely discredited. The quoted statement standing by itself as fact lessens the value of the article. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 18:51, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ok, but does "nonetheless it is widely discredited" have sources? you could add them, and then I could decide whether to believe them. 68.175.11.48 (talk) 22:09, 23 December 2016 (UTC)