Talk:Zos Kia Cultus (Here and Beyond)

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"This album was a revolutionary album in the black/death metal industry." Says who? I don't think this album was very revolutionary. It was a break through for the band, got them their first US tours, and continued their movement from a black metal band to a death metal band, but not much revolutionary about it. Very heavily influenced by Morbid Angel and Nile. --Aboverepine 15:56, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Tracklist typeface oddities[edit]

It would be quite stupid to wage an edit war over an obscure typeface used to typeset the tracklist of the album, so I'd like to state my point in full detail, not limited to the edit description oneliner. Please take a look at the actual back cover , not only on the listings on Allmusic or Discogs. OK, all the "I"'s here seem to have a diaeresis. But the character "W" in this typeface looks exactly like Cyrillic letter Sha, "Ш". The "L" is almost identical to Cyrillic Shha, "Һ". We could say that the "U" is actually Cyrillic Tse "Ц" or Dzhe "Џ", or even Gothic letter qertra. All this means that we need to interpret the diaeresis, as well as wacky renditions of other letters, as not really meaningful type design curiosity.

On the other hand, the word "Cultus", as well as conjunction "of", should be rendered as "Cvltvs" and "ov", respectively. The character present in these is obviously the same as "V" in "Above" and different than "U" in "Fornicatus".

What I state above is coherent with the tracklist on the official website. Uzyel (talk) 00:08, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

RE:Tracklist typeface oddities[edit]

You made it clear it doesn't matter that much if all the I's are spelled with diaeresis'. However, since it is much more likely for I's to have diaeresis', than for the U's to be a Ц a Џ, etc. I mean, sure they look like these characters, but then you would say that our own alphabetic U would look like a Gothic qertra. And since we're not going to change all of our U's now to the Gothic qertra, simply because they lookalike. No, but if you would take a close look at the backcover of the album, you'd see all the I's have solid, maybe little, but solid diaeresis'. And in order to make an Ï, you simply take the I and place to dots above the character. Since this has happened even on the backcover, I'd say these characters are more likely spelled that way than other characters wich simply lookalike, but are not exactly like them.

As for the U's wich sometimes are spelled with a V. This is very common in Behemoth's later work to title their songs. Even in their lyrics they agreed to change the word "of" to "ov". But I saw you let them that way so there's no argument there.

The tracklist on Behemoth's site is not always 100% reliable. Sure, for 99% they're correct, but if you would take a look at the back of the Demigod cover, you'd see that the song "Before The Æons Came" is spelled with an "Æ". On Behemoth's site, the song is spelled with an individual A and E. Or this album "Zos Kia Cultus (Here and Beyond)" is actually spelled on the site without the "(Here and Beyond)" at the end.

Still, I agree this is not something to wage an edit war with, and I'm not going to undo you spellings. All I cared for now is to give you my point of view at this. Resilldoux (talk) 08:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

  • Yeah, I'm aware that artists' webpages are not so reliable, I've seen quite a bunch of horrible typos in tracklists. And it's likely for I to have a diaeresis - but not in English language. So real words like "titanic", "time", "iconoclasts", "saints", "might" and even "typhonian" rather shouldn't contain this diacritic mark and show that this is just the fontmaker's extravaganza. Regards. 90.156.93.22 (talk) 10:30, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
True, but be aware, that as the English language rarely uses diacritics, so those diacritics used in other languages tend to be treated graphically in an English-speaking cultural context as if they were simply diverting and amusing typographical variations, with no communicable meaning in themselves.
Nuttyskin (talk) 14:55, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Genre[edit]

There's been some back and forth on the genre and, to avoid page protection or other administrative action, there needs to be an attempt to determine consensus. Regards Tiderolls 07:13, 19 May 2012 (UTC)