Template:Did you know nominations/Jebel Musa (Morocco)

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Miyagawa (talk) 21:55, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Jebel Musa (Morocco)[edit]

Jebel Musa

Created/expanded by Victuallers, Smallbones, Gibmetal77. Nominated by Victuallers (talk) at 23:54, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Symbol delete vote.svg Has not been sufficiently expanded. Daniel Case (talk) 05:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC) OK, after Victuallers' comment below, I realized I'd been doing the wrong character count. It has been sufficiently expanded; we just need to decide on a hook. Daniel Case (talk) 16:19, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict with Daniel. Since I've spent time looking at this, I'll post the following anyway.):*Hook issue. Looking at a map, this point is not the "most north west" location in Morocco, but close to the northernmost point, as the lead for the article states. In the article, it is stated to be the "most north west peak in Morocco" but this seems to be an odd distinction, and hard to verify. There is high ground west of Tangier, for instance. Regardless, the footnote for the hook fact is a nineteenth-century work on Charlemagne, not a geography source. The Interior (Talk) 05:52, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, I see a potential rewording of the hook as ALT2: ... that Jebel Musa (pictured), across from the Rock of Gibraltar, is the northernmost mountain in Morocco?

But that's not really such a big deal, honestly. The article instead supports a better ALT3:

  • ... that Jebel Musa (pictured), the northernmost mountain in Morocco, is known as "the Dead Woman" in the Spanish city of Ceuta because of how it appears from that direction? Daniel Case (talk) 18:53, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Expansion - 451 chars on a.m. of 15 July and 2535 chars on 20th July. Victuallers (talk) 19:31, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
I find ALT1 the most interesting but I think it needs some context, so here goes ALT4:
QPQ = Gibraltar South Mole Lighthouse Victuallers (talk) 11:58, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Symbol question.svg This is mostly good, but I am not adding a tickmark yet because I have serious concerns about one of the reference citations. The 5x expansion checks out, I did not see evidence of plagiarism or close paraphrasing, the article has sufficient footnotes, the hook fact for ALT1 and ALT4 is verified (in part by a source that I inserted), and the image license is OK. The image is an interesting one for DYK and I strongly prefer the ALT4 hook as the most interesting.
The problem is with the reference citation to "Buffin, Thomas (2005). Legends of Charlemagne. ISBN 9781595408051." The Google Books link goes to a book that appears to be a reprint (dated 2005) of a book by Thomas Bulfinch (not Buffin) that was first published in 1863 and was republished in 1881 as part of Bulfinch's Mythology. It is not exactly obvious that the Legends of Charlemagne would be a source for information about the geography of northern Morocco or the identification of the Pillars of Hercules, but the book is cited three times in the article as a source of information on these topics. (Indeed, before I added a reference to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, this was the only source cited for the hook fact.) The citation doesn't include page numbers and the Google Books edition isn't searchable, so I cannot tell where in the book this information is supposed to be findable. I'm not going to approve this hook until the multiple problems with this citation are cleared up. --Orlady (talk) 01:32, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the review and explanation. The Britannica ref means that we do not need the work of Bulfinch to substantiate Jebel Musa's claim to be a pillar of hercules. I have left bulfinch in only as a source of old names that were used to refer to the mountain (where his aged glossary seems adaquate). Cheers Victuallers (talk) 11:58, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Symbol confirmed.svg Thanks for fixing the article. The Bulfinch's Mythology glossary makes far more sense as a source than the Legends of Charlemagne did. Note however, that Howstuffworks says that Abyla is Mount Acho (Hacho). Regardless of that detail, ALT4 is a great hook and the image is interesting! --Orlady (talk) 15:46, 6 August 2012 (UTC)