Template talk:Armenian elections

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WikiProject Elections and Referendums (Rated Template-class)
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User:Number 57 claims municipal election shouldn't be included here. Please see {{Belgian elections}}, {{Czech elections}}, {{Hungarian elections}}, {{Greek elections}}. All of them include local elections on national elections' templates. --Երևանցի talk 23:28, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

You are misrepresenting my viewpoint. I have no problems with including local elections on here, as they refer to local elections held across the country (as is the case for all the examples you cite). The problem is that you are trying to add elections for one specific city (Yerevan). In this case, a separate template is required - see {{Tokyo elections}}, {{Bangkok elections}}, {{Edmonton elections}}, {{Toronto elections}}, {{London elections}} etc etc. Number 57 23:34, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
That specific city is the only city where local elections are significant. It holds 1/3 of the country's population. --Երևանցի talk 23:41, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
That may be the case, but I'm not sure why it is a reason not to create a separate template for it like other cities have. Number 57 23:55, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
Because there is no point of creating another temple for just one city which is the only local significant election in a country of 3 million. --Երևանցի talk 00:05, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
Why is there no point in a standalone template? This template (like all others) is specifically for elections held across the nation. If you want to expand the Yerevan articles to include the other local elections, then I think that would be an acceptable solution (I don't see how elections in Yerevan are significant, but they aren't elsewhere). Number 57 00:11, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
I really don't understand why you're making this such a big deal. --Երևանցի talk 00:17, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

I see you have added them again. As there is still no agreement to do so, I have removed them. Could you respond to my proposed solution above (i.e. making the Yereval City Council elections about all local elections across Armenia, assuming that all local elections are held at the same time?). If this is not the case, then I will create a standalone template for Yerevan as we have for other cities. Number 57 09:25, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Do you know how the local elections are held in Armenia? Just answer yes or no. --Երևանցի talk 12:46, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
After reading this article about the 2012 local elections, yes. However, that article claims elections take place every five years (which contradicts the Yerevan articles dated 2009 and 2013), whereas this source states there are elections in 2013 too. I assume this means that different areas hold their elections at different times, and that Yerevan is some kind of exception to the rule?
As with {{United Kingdom elections}}, perhaps we should have an article for every year in which there are local elections, and include, or sub-link the Yerevan articles in them? There seems to be a fair amount of information out there about the 2012 elections, certainly enough to make an article - I've started an example here. The template could then look as below (with the local years going further back - I've only looked back as far as 2009 and there are elections every year - if Yerevan elections were the only ones in 2009, I would have no problem linking directly to that article). Number 57 12:56, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, local elections are held in Armenian few times a year. And no, 2009 Yerevan city council election was not the only one that year. I'm not sure if we can find enough information about previous local elections. I'll do some search in Armenian.
I suggest the following:

--Երևանցի talk 13:44, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

I am strongly against the separate link for Yerevan, as this is still not compliant (as well as looking awkward - London elections are not linked to from the UK template). Why can it not be included (or linked to) from the main local election article? Number 57 13:46, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Because Yerevan is the only major city in the country of 3 million. No other local election has as much significance as Yerevan City Council elections. Mayor of Yerevan has always been one of the most influential figures in Armenia, unlike Gyumri or any other city. --Երևանցի talk 13:59, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
The same goes for London in the UK - the mayor is almost as well known as the Prime Minister. However, London elections are included in United Kingdom local elections, 2012 (which is linked from the main UK template). Number 57 14:10, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm now watching Vartan Oskanian's interview, who was Armenia's foreign affairs minister from 1998 to 2008. He said a great thing about Yerevan elections: "Yerevan elections are not just municipal elections, as in Gyumri [he literally gave the same example as me], but are more political as 1/3 of the population lives in Yerevan and over 50% of Armenia's GDP comes from Yerevan." --Երևանցի talk 14:11, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
This doesn't change the fact that individual cities should not be included on such templates. If we look at the 2009 article, there is so little content, I don't see why this can't just be changed into an article on all local elections in 2009, including the Yerevan one. The Yerevan election can easily be given prominence in these articles. Number 57 14:21, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Of course it does.
"If we look at the 2009 article, there is so little content" What does that have to do with anything? The Armenian independence referendum, 1991, which is unarguably the most important vote in Armenian history, also has little content. --Երևանցի talk 14:30, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, but I disagree. The size of Yerevan relative to other cities is no reason to give it special treatment. This is a national template, not a city-specific one. If it is such an important city, then it can have its own template like those listed at the start of this discussion. Anyway, we are going round in circles, so I have asked another editor involved with editing these templates for a third opinion on the matter. Number 57 14:33, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Everyone in Armenia finds it important, but you don't? Sure, third opinion will be helpful. --Երևանցի talk 14:42, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

I'd have to say I'm with Number 57 on this; a possible compromise might be to have redlinks for local election articles encompassing all of Armenia with Yerevan in parentheses *until* the local election articles are written, but that's already very close to breaking the established template standard … —Nightstallion 14:43, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

That's no problem. The question for Yerevanci is whether you would prefer to keep standalone articles for Yerevan elections, or whether to include them in the ones for local elections across the whole country? If you prefer to include, then we should move Yerevan City Council election, 2013 to Armenian local elections, 2013 and then expand it to include other local elections. If you want it kept alone, then I will start Armenian local elections, 2013 and link to the Yerevan one from there.
Another job will be to work out how far back local elections go. Number 57 14:49, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Unless there's a *lot* of additional content for Yerevan, I don't see cause for separate articles, no. —Nightstallion 17:16, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
The whole point of this discussion was that there is going to be a lot to put there, because the city council elections are, as already stated above, very significant. --Երևանցի talk 20:13, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Fine; until there is, the content is fine at Armenian local elections, 2013, can be split when there's enough, and only the full article on all local elections should be linked in the template, like everywhere else … —Nightstallion 20:16, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
What are your criteria of "enough"? Why should there be separate articles on mayor's elections of NYC and London but not on Yerevan? --Երևանցի talk 21:11, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm agnostic regarding merging the Yerevan article into the general one, but the current content is rather little in my book. Anyway, the template should only link to the general one. —Nightstallion 10:29, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

So I'm assuming you don't want Yerevan City Council election, 2013 to be merged into Armenian local elections, 2013? If that's the case, then I will create the latter article and link to the former from it. Number 57 10:05, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Why are we still arguing about this? Let's just have both general local elections article for every year and Yerevan election article in parenthesis. --Երևանցի talk 21:37, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
We can have the election articles for every year, but Yerevan will not be linked on the template. I think it's clear there is no consensus for that now. Number 57 22:26, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
The reason? This whole discussion seems pointless to me. --Երևանցի talk 00:18, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
This is my proposal:
If you don't like this one, please suggest another one that we can compromise around. Otherwise, I'll just save this version as you simply don't explain the reason why you're "strongly against" it. --Երևանցի talk 05:00, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Because there's an established standard formatting for these templates, I suppose …? —Nightstallion 09:53, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Exactly - including separate links to Yerevan is not the standard formatting. My proposal is the same as the one above - i.e. linking to local election articles for every year, then either including Yerevan in those articles or linking to it from them. As this seems to be what Nightstallion agrees is appropriate, I have added it to the template, and created the relevant articles. Number 57 14:39, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to know where is that "established standard formatting" written? And by whom it was written? --Երևանցի talk 16:22, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
There is nothing written down, but these templates have evolved over several years into their current form by consensus. This is a new proposal (adding a specific city to a national template), and it seems there is no agreement for this at present. Number 57 20:16, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Alright then, lets agree upon this. Should we start some kind of voting? --Երևանցի talk 21:34, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I thought getting a third opinion would be enough, no? If not, then I suppose asking for further input from WP:Elections and referendums would be the next step. Number 57 22:20, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I;m not here to confront anyone. I just wanna see what the best is. If you don't wanna go further just leave it as it is. --Երևանցի talk 02:18, 24 March 2013 (UTC)