Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New York City Public Transportation

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WikiProject New York City (Rated Project-class)
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WikiProject Trains / Rapid transit / in New York City (Rated NA-class)
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What station is this?[edit]

Location questions have been moved to Wikipedia:WikiProject New York City Public Transportation/Unidentified locations.

Maps in need of updating[edit]

Chambers Street is no longer a terminal for the J.
But Essex Street has been a terminal for the M for a year now.

File:NYCS map J.svg needs updating. It no longer ends at Chambers Street. File:NYCS map M.svg now also ends at Essex Street. The current official map reflects this. Epic Genius (talk) 19:22, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

I'd love to read that, but my STUPID F%@#!ING COMPUTER took away my ability to load new PDF files!! ---------User:DanTD (talk) 19:43, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
Are you able to download Adobe Acrobat? Epic Genius (talk) 20:08, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
I am now. I had to put this POS on System Restore. Let's hope all the other things that I lost the ability to do this weekend have returned. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 21:23, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
Sadly, it has no impact on other irrelevant programs. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 21:38, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
My condolences to you for your computer's troubles. I think I should ask WikiProject Maps to fix this. Epic Genius (talk) 01:00, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
I have posted to WT:MAPS now. Epic Genius (talk) 01:05, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
I've taken liberty of updating the M map for you. If you can post this updated map onto the page, it would be appreciated.72.80.198.89 (talk) 13:32, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
@72.80.198.89: The link doesn't seem to work. Could you kindly post it again? Thanks. Epic Genius (talk) 14:25, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Metro-North Harlem and Hudson Line templates[edit]

What the hell is up with the line templates for the Harlem Line and Hudson Line? --Somebody seems to have replaced all the icons and broke them to pieces, messing up the infoboxes in the process. My efforts to revert the previous fixes (all of which were AGF) made things even worse! ---------User:DanTD (talk) 20:38, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

  • UPDATE - Looks like I have to include the New Haven Line too. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 20:40, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
    • UPDATE #2 - And now it's the LIRR too. Check out the Port Washington Branch. Maybe we should take this to WPTrains. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 20:45, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
      • An edit to {{BSrow}} by @Jc86035:, which @Alakzi: has now undone, broke the whole layout (made some css visible). Doesn't fix icons though. I see Jc86035 has been active on a bunch of related templates recently, possibly a related change also broke that issue. DMacks (talk) 21:02, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
        • @DMacks: What's wrong with the icons? I'm not seeing it. Alakzi (talk) 21:20, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
          • Hmm, DanTD mentioned something about icons, and I didn't see any icons on Harlem Line despite a major layout mess becoming not-a-mess, so I assumed something was still broken:) @DanTD: is something still broken?. DMacks (talk) 21:27, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
  • By the way, Dan, when you see templates break but no changes having been made to them recently, it helps to check related changes; there's a link on the sidebar. Alakzi (talk) 21:45, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
    • Well, I see you fixed them anyhow, and I was going to send you a thanks message after I informed some other users that you had done so. But now that you're here, I'm going to thank you for them on this board. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 22:01, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Facepalm Sorry about that, guys! Good thing it's fixed now. Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use {{re|Jc86035}} to reply to me 03:41, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
    • Apology accepted. As mad as I was about it, I still WP:AGF all along. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 01:38, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

South Ferry loops[edit]

(Posting here in case no one has watchlisted the article talk page.) The South Ferry – Whitehall Street (New York City Subway) article, in § Inner platform and the station layout table, suggests that the inner loop track is still used by terminating NYCS-bull-trans-5.svg trains on weekends, but the article's infobox and Vcohen's diagram in List of New York City Subway terminals § IRT suggest that the inner track is closed. Is the track open or has it been closed? Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use {{re|Jc86035}} to reply to me 14:36, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for finding my error. I have corrected it here. Vcohen (talk) 16:52, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Comrades, check my edit please. Vcohen (talk) 09:27, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

That seems about right. Thank you for your correction, Vcohen. Epic Genius (talk) 12:42, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Back to identifying cars[edit]

Please tell me I'm right about this car being an R46. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 04:25, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

It is a R46. R68/A doesn't look like that, and to my knowledge, neither does R44. Epic Genius (talk) 14:39, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Otherwise I'll have to revert this one.

New Rochelle (Metro-North station)[edit]

The New Rochelle (Metro-North station) has frequently been getting some decent images, but they're often deleted on the grounds of copyright violations. Even if they're all true, somebody has to add free ones that have been similar to those that were deleted. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 04:14, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

A strange page[edit]

Comrades, is this an article or a disambiguation page? We already have articles about both stations. Why are all these descriptions and explanations on the page? Vcohen (talk) 18:59, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

@Vcohen: I tried to tag it as a disambiguation page. ArnoldReinhold disagrees, saying that since the AirTrain LaGuardia is almost definitely going to be built, the explanations of all stations in the area, whether proposed or existing, should be on one page. Right now, it's a stub. Epic Genius (talk) 03:29, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, but the AirTrain LaGuardia has its own article too. What is the entity that requires an additional article? Vcohen (talk) 09:17, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
I had mentioned this isn't how things are done here because subway stations are considered separate from other railroad stations. I should've cited a false effort to merge 34th Street - Penn Station (IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line) and 34th Street - Penn Station (IND Eighth Avenue Line) into Pennsylvania Station (New York City) from a few years ago. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 13:00, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
According to the Andrew Cuomo announcemet of $450M plan to build AirTrain connecting LaGuardia Airport to the subway, the train is going to the Mets – Willets Point subway station from where you could connect to the Mets – Willets Point (LIRR station). This seems very clear to me. No need to merge. Secondarywaltz (talk) 14:36, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Even if the AirTrain was built, mention of the station could be on the respective article for the subway and LIRR stations. The AirTrain station would fail WP:STATION. Epic Genius (talk) 00:46, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Per our guideline WP:Broad-concept article: "A term with many related meanings should be presented as an article on the broadest understanding of the term, rather than as a disambiguation page merely listing variations on that meaning." How are our readers better served with a disambiguation page than with a short article describing the future complex of three stations with links to more detailed articles on each? Also here is a quote from the governor's recent announcement of the Laguardia Airport rebuild: "As part of his 2015 Opportunity Agenda, Governor Cuomo proposed creating an AirTrain option that directly connects LaGuardia to the New York City subway and Long Island Rail Road at Mets-Willets Point Station." [1] Clearly planners at least are envisioning the complex as eventually functioning as a unified station.--agr (talk) 03:37, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

It is indeed a weird case, but the complex could be described with just two articles. For example, in Jamaica (LIRR station) and Sutphin Boulevard – Archer Avenue – JFK Airport (Archer Avenue Lines), in which the former describes the AirTrain JFK's station as well. Epic Genius (talk) 16:53, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
In the case of Jamaica, the LIRR station is clearly the primary topic, a major hub. Indeed I would argue that the article name should be changed to Jamaica Station, since it covers more than the LIRR facility, similar to Grand Central Terminal and Penn Station (New York), both of which have separate articles for their subway stations. In the case of Mets – Willets Point, it's not so clear which is primary. I suppose you could argue that the subway station is primary, since the LIRR station is only open for events. But there is a well sourced plan to use both stations as the terminus for a major new service. Covering that in the subway station article seems awkward since the configuration of the two stations (800 feet apart) is important. I think the short article I suggested would be better. Maybe it should not have been labeled a stub as it does not need to be expanded until there is more sourced material on the combined station available. But rolling all that into the subway article would still be better than a disambiguation page, which violates our guidelines and doesn't serve our readers well at all.--agr (talk) 13:12, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
I agree with you that an article should be created about the hub, but only when the plans become official. However, as the hub is not official yet, and plans for AirTrain LGA haven't even been finalized, it should not have its own article yet, per WP:CRYSTAL. I say that instead, we add a mention of AirTrain LGA into both the existing subway and LIRR articles. Epic Genius (talk) 14:37, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm no sure what you mean by "becomes official." Two announcements by the Governor of the state are not enough? In any case, the criteria on Wikipedia (WP:Notability, WP:STATION, WP:CRYSTAL) is coverage in reliable secondary sources and this proposal has that. And, of course, two of the three stations that would make up the hub already exist. We cover major transportation proposals at the formal proposal stage. We even have a Category:Cancelled highway projects in the United States with many entries. I would note that it is at the proposal stage when public interest in a project often peaks, since then there is still time for public input that could alter, improve or even halt a project. In this particular case, I think no one questions the need for a rail link to LGA, but the controversy around the current proposal in large measure hinges on the practicality of the Mets – Willets Point terminus. While Wikipedia should not offer opinions, covering the known facts about the proposed terminus is helpful to our readers in understanding the debate. Burying the information in two articles with a disambiguation page is not helpful and goes against our guidelines.--agr (talk) 14:41, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Route diagrams task force[edit]

I was thinking about starting a task force for maintaining the BS-map route diagrams that fall under the category New York City Subway line templates. Category:New York City Subway service templates could also be expanded with more service route maps. Epic Genius (talk) 20:44, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Diagrams on List of New York City Subway terminals[edit]

(Pinging Vcohen, Epicgenius, Useddenim and Lost on Belmont.) If anyone here is interested and has time, could you please help with converting the SL diagram templates from List of New York City Subway terminals into BSicon diagrams (I'm working on it currently at User:Jc86035/sandbox)? Thanks, Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use {{re|Jc86035}} to reply to me 14:23, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

(Also, should the diagrams use the overlaid fades BSicon utvSTRfgq.svgBSicon MFADEfq.svg(MFADEfqutvSTRfgq) or just regular arrows   (utvCONTfgl)? Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use {{re|Jc86035}} to reply to me 15:36, 5 August 2015 (UTC))

General practice is to use regular arrows for continuation and the others for track direction. I think in most cases you've outlined, regular arrows are appropriate. Lost on  Belmont 3200N1000W  (talk) 21:05, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, arrows (  (utvCONTfgl)) should be used for continuations. Fades (BSicon utvSTRfgq.svgBSicon MFADEfq.svg(MFADEfqutvSTRfgq)) should only be used if there's an interruption on the map, but the tracks with the fades are connected. Epic Genius (talk) 03:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Red globe lamps[edit]

Mta station wall.jpg

Comrades, do we have a more actual shot of red globe lamps for the New York City Subway article? The present one is too much outdated, it shows red lamps that are currently green, and a brown M bullet that is currently orange. Vcohen (talk) 10:37, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

I forget where I read this, but I thought the red lamps were supposed to be for exits. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 12:57, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Green means entrance that is open 24/7. Red means all the other options: part-time entrance or exit-only. Vcohen (talk) 13:10, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
There's a red lamp entrance at Times Square and 43rd Street. Maybe next time I go there, I'll take a shot. Epic Genius (talk) 03:09, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Expert attention[edit]

This is a notice about Category:New York City Public Transportation articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 18:15, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

I can't wait. I've got a few articles I tagged as needing expert attention that I'd like to see show up on that list. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 19:12, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Substation images[edit]

Not knowing where to address the issue, I learned through Google Street View that the former IRT Substation 14 still exists along West 96th Street between Broadway and West End Avenue. If I don't capture it this mid-September (which is becoming more than likely the month I'm going to be in the NYC-Tri State Area), would anybody else be willing to capture it, and maybe a few others? There are a few 1907-published diagrams of that old station, but I'd like something contemporary I can add to a future category. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 19:20, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Maybe you can post this at WT:NYC, as maybe 34 of the active users in this WikiProject can't easily take pictures of substations in NYC. Epic Genius (talk) 13:44, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

BMT predecessor cat[edit]

Has anybody here seen my Category:Predecessors of the Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit Corporation yet? I'm still considering a future navbox anyhow, though. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 06:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)