Template talk:Counties of Hungary

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European flag -- or not.

I think both cases can be argued, but this editwar is ridiculous. First: yes, EU flag is not a national symbol, and people from British Columbia may think this is something like the UN flag, totally inappropriate in this situation. Second: no, many people in Hungary (well, not in British Columbia) feel that the European flag is something more than the symbol of an international organisation. Public buildings in Hungary are usually decorated with both the European and the Hungarian flag.

So: argues first, edits second. Please. --Sicboy 22:31, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't know why some people think the European flag is inappropriate in the template of an European country. BTW, all ideologies aside, I originally wanted the flag there because if there's a picture on only one side, the text is not in the center of the template heading and it doesn't look so good. Alensha 12:46, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

There is no need for the EU flag to be in Hungary's national template. The EU flag only represent the EU, and not Europe as a whole. Looking at things in perspective, Hungary has only been in the EU for a few years, and doesn't even have full rights (eg right to move within the EU for employment), therefore the EU is not a part of Hugary's national psyche. As for asthetics, why not use another Hungarian symbol (eg coat of arms) Astrotrain 13:01, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I've been uploading a small coat of arms for this template right when you were writing this :-) But I still think the EU flag looks better, purely for aesthetical reasons (the coat of arms is not wide enough.) As for the flag representing the EU or Europe as a whole, please read its article. BTW please don't start this "old EU countries / new EU countries" debate. Where are you from & how do you know about Hungary's national psyche? Alensha 13:04, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I remembered somehow he was from British Columbia, Canada. Which is a fairly nice place I think, but please, we're not used to people telling us what our something national psyche was, from far away countries. Maybe it would be appropriate then for us to go to British Columbia pages, deleting the Canadian flag telling that Canada is not a part of BC's national psyche!?!? Without asking local people about these people on the talk page? Remember: Hungarians are very suspicious of distant people telling them what they're supposed to be, we have had this kind of control for decades.
And on the topic if we are full members --- please, I direct you to European Union for that. And those free-employment restrictions: yes, there are many (legal or illegal) deregulations from EU-laws, e.g. Germany not letting Hu workers work there (UK, Sweden permits that). But that has nothing to do with full membership, which is a term opposed to associate membership, which we had between ca. 1996/7-2004. --Sicboy 20:13, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I absolutely support having the EU flag in this template, but I don't think Hungarian national psyche could be an argument for or against it. Hungarian national psyche, if there is one as such, may be described in various related articles, as it may definitely be of interest for several people, but it still needn't be reflected in the template of the counties. Let me repeat, I do support the EU flag, but not due to psychological aspects but simply because Hungarian counties are physically located in the EU. Adam78 20:26, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

  • OK, look at it this way, the inclusion of the EU flag suggests Hungary is a pro-European nation, which is POV. I imagine any euro sceptic Hungarians would find the inclusion of the EU flag highly offensive in a national template. Placing the EU flags suggest that Hungary is subordiante to the EU, rather than an independent nation. Astrotrain 20:58, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
At last :) Now that would be my argumentation as well. Sorry, but I had to defend the poor EU flag from the national-psyche-thing, but I agree with these two arguments. When the EU flag was placed on the template I thought okay, if there would be anybody who doesn't like this he would tell it. The problem was that you deleted first and argued second.
Now let's go to to the second round: I can see Adam78 supports the EU flag on the template and Astrotrain and I do not, while Alensha just wanted some aesthetical corrections, that's where the flag came from. I think this temporary substitution with the coat-of-arms is not very nice, so I suggest a second Hungarian flag, or a small thumbnail Hungary-map (with or without county borders) to the caption. --Sicboy 21:13, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
I am a bit confused, since you reverted my edits, I thought you supported the EU flag? Anyway, I have changed the template to 2 Hungarian flags, and it looks good (2 flags is also used by the EU template!). Astrotrain 21:26, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
I reverted, because I hadn't supported undiscussed edits in this case. Anyways, I think the two Hungarian flags look nice, and it would be good to keep this page like it is now. --Sicboy 21:27, 11 October 2005 (UTC)