Template talk:Disambiguation needed

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This template is within the scope of WikiProject Inline Templates, a collaborative effort to improve and manage Wikipedia's inline footnote, cleanup and dispute templates. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
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WikiProject Disambiguation
WikiProject icon This template is within the scope of WikiProject Disambiguation, an attempt to structure and organize all disambiguation pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, you can edit the page attached to this talk page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Template name[edit]

Say, could we use a shorter name, like Template:Amblink, Template:Disamb-link, or something like that? — Chris53516 (Talk) 20:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I have set up {{dn}} which can be used as a short form. Duckbill 23:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Sounds great! Thanks. — Chris53516 (Talk) 01:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I use {{dn}} exclusively. I would, in fact, encourage this template be renamed to "Dn". --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Lately (let's say for the last year or two), the trend with all maintenance templates has been to use descriptive names rather than cryptic abbreviations. In view of this, the template has been restored to its original title. The old abbreviation may still be used, of course, although - for the reason mentioned - I'd not recommend it. Debresser (talk) 13:48, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


There is a glitch with this template when used with italics - see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#dn tag misbehaviour again. DuncanHill (talk) 11:00, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Did anyone fix it? — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō Contribs. 21:35, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Request editprotected[edit]

{{editprotected}} Currently sorting redirects by placing redirect templates. Wish to add {{R from other template}} to {{Ambiguous link}}. -- OlEnglish (Talk) 18:06, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Done --Amalthea 18:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Don't hide it[edit]

{{Editprotected}} This template is <includeonly>-hiding itself from view on its own page. No need for that, since it does not produce barfy code without parameters. Editors should not have to wade thru the docs just to find out what it looks like. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō Contribs. 21:35, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:47, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Editprotected request involving this template[edit]

This message is to inform people monitoring this talk page that there is an "editprotected" request involving this and several other templates at Template talk:! cymru.lass (hit me up)(background check) 20:21, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Prevent substitution[edit]

I've made a modification in the sandbox that prevents this template from being substituted, in that it cleanly substitutes to itself as a transcluded template. I see no problems or drawbacks to this, but I've never applied this before in a live template. Two minor flaws: the parameter value "¬" is not supported (treated like an undefined parameter), and that numbered parameters are turned into explicit numbered parameters, i.e.
{{subst:dn|Foo}} → {{dn | 1=Foo | date=June 2010}}
(the date is filled in automagically if omitted).

Both flaws could largely be fixed, but paid for with slightly more boilerplate template code and using a string manipulation template. For this particular usage it's probably not worth it.

Any objections or comments? Amalthea 10:36, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

A very interesting idea and well worth a trial. I didn't quite understand the bit about why the parameters had to be numbered. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Consider {{subst:dn|1= Foo=Bar}}. If the subst-to-self logic does omit the numbered parameters, it would result in {{dn|Foo=Bar}}. Always adding explicit numbered parameter will prevent that. Trying to scan the value for an equals sign with {{str find}} would usually work, but I'm not sure it's worth it. Although, whitespace handling is different in those cases; not important here I think, but maybe it's worth fixing it after all. Amalthea 16:10, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
I am of course full of admiration for this new code. I just fail to understand what is wrong with the old code, made up by Rich over a year ago: {{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>NAMESPACE}}|<includeonly>[[Category:Pages with incorrectly substituted templates]]</includeonly>|}}? Debresser (talk) 13:43, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Nothing is wrong with my old code, it's just that this is better - it's the Nirvana preventing "foolishly substituting" for which we have striven so long, courtesy of Amalthea and WP:Safesubst. Rich Farmbrough, 15:32, 29 June 2011 (UTC).
In {{Fix}} templates the line |substcheck=<includeonly>{{subst:</includeonly><includeonly>substcheck}}</includeonly> is used, which is even shorter than the code I mentioned before. Why is Amalthea's code better? Debresser (talk) 15:38, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Because if someone types {{subst:cleanup|reason=eggs and ham|date=June 2011}} it makes the subst put {{Cleanup|reason=eggs and ham|date=June 2011}}. In other words it actually does the desubst (in effect). Rich Farmbrough, 15:49, 29 June 2011 (UTC).
(Drawback, sightly more maintenance, as params are added to templates, but that is fairly rare.) Rich Farmbrough, 15:50, 29 June 2011 (UTC).
That is great then! Can it be added to {{Fix}} using the same substcheck parameter that already exists? 16:09, 29 June 2011 (UTC)Debresser (talk)
No, needs to be in the outer template. If they all get that treatment though, the substcheck from Fix can be removed. Amalthea 16:10, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
I've added it here. I don't see that anything can go wrong, but would still take it slow with adding it to the other maintenance and tag templates. Amalthea 16:10, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
If so, then please give them all "that treatment", and then remove it from {{Fix}}. Sounds great.
Btw, where do we add <!-- {{Disambiguation needed}} being --> now? Debresser (talk) 16:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
I don't think there is any purpose for that now. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:16, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
For the begin and end remarks, you mean? Debresser (talk) 16:22, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
You could use Wikipedia:List of monthly maintenance categories with templates to find all mainenance templates. Debresser (talk) 16:24, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Btw, that category you added yesterday to {{Fix}}, what does that do? And why do I see it on templates like documentation pages? Debresser (talk) 16:24, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Questions about Bot[edit]

The documentation states: "If a date is not added, a bot will do so later." Could the bot also date {{dn}}, or change it to {{Disambiguation needed}} and then date it? Also, could someone change the documentation so that "bot" links to the specific bot instead of Wikipedia:BOT? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 00:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

The specific bot is likely to be User:Smackbot. But since that is not a given, I used the general link to WP:Bot. As is done on all documentation pages that have this line. And yes, that specific bot can and will make the other changes you mentioned as well. Debresser (talk) 00:58, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
You're right - I saw that Smackbot recently made a change from {{dn}} to {{disambiguation needed|date=June 2011}}. However, there are thousands of pages that still have {{dn}}, including some where I added it a month ago. I updated Wikipedia:AWB/Template redirects and Wikipedia:AWB/Dated templates so that AWB users (bots and humans) can make more of the changes. Thanks for the speedy response! GoingBatty (talk) 01:19, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
The move was made only today, and there are thousands of usages that need to be fixed now. It'll take some time. Debresser (talk) 01:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Well now, that explains why I only stumbled across this template today. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 02:21, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Proposal: deprecate use of parameter 1[edit]

I would like to propose that the use of unnamed parameter 1, that is, the format {{Disambiguation needed|Article|date=MONTH YEAR}}, be deprecated, and the documentation changed to recommend only the use of the format [[Article]]{{Disambiguation needed|date=MONTH YEAR}}. Likewise, unnamed parameter 2 would also be deprecated. Use of the first format makes the use of automated tools to assist in disambiguation much more difficult, as most of these tools are searching for a bracketed link to "Article", not for a template parameter. Also, when a correct link is found, it is much easier simply to replace the offending link and delete the entire stretch between {{ and }} than to extract the link information from the template (especially in the two-parameter form), format that as a link to the correct article, then delete what is left of the template. Consistent use of the second format would make life easier for editors, without affecting readers in any way. I am not suggesting that the template itself be changed at this point, only the documentation, to discourage use of these parameters. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 16:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. And in the future the template could be changed (read: simplified) as well, as far as I am concerned. Debresser (talk) 17:04, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Support, for the reasons R'n'B has given. --Tesscass (talk) 17:37, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Agreed, keep it simple. --NSH001 (talk) 19:01, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Support --GoingBatty (talk) 23:56, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Since human behavior is hard to change, backwards compatability is still needed. The method implemented in Dab solver was to avoid the equal sign in the unnamed parameter match. So the regular expression is now \{\{\s*(DN_TAGS)\|([^{|}[\]<=>]+(\|[^{|}[\]=]*)?)((\|\s*[^{|}=]*\s*=[^{|}]*|)+)\}\} and is replaced with [[\2]]{{\1\4}}. — Dispenser 22:40, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Direct link to Dab solver[edit]

Currently this template links to Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation/Fixing links which is whelming for new users. So I look at it and see most of the steps are unnecessary if Dab solver is used. For the reminding steps I've implemented an editintro feature. The resulting wikilink look like [[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py?page={{FULLPAGENAMEE}}&editintro=Template:Disambiguation needed/editintro]]. Since this is unlike the reset of the fix template, I suggest adding a pencil next to the link. — Dispenser 23:31, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

This is clever. I've put a little test of this on Go Down Moses so that others can see. It is a little untuitive to be taken straight to an external tool. Perhaps we could retain the current link and do something like [disambiguation needed - fix!] — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:35, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and created Template:Disambiguation needed/editintro. Here's an example of what it with a pencil icon [disambiguation needed InterlanguageLinks-Asset-Pencil-Hover.gif]. — Dispenser 12:40, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
I was just about to suggest this. I would have proposed [disambiguation needed, fix] however. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 19:35, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
We know from User:WildBot/msg that users overlook small links, some might suggest swapping <sup> with <big> so people can't miss it. The aim of editintro the most of same information, but providing an easier to use editing interface. — Dispenser 12:13, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
That message was mostly ignored because it was placed on the talk page. If you miss it on your watchlist ('cause it's a bot edit), chances are most people won't ever see it. "Bigging" the message will introduce horrible size discrepancy. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 20:00, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
1) WildBot tagged without marking them as bot edits. 2) Responses had a sharp drop off two days after tagging. 3) The usage of Dab solver was measured by looking at RelatedChanges and picking out the distinctive edit summary. 4) The CSS line-height: property can be adjusted so surrounding text is unaffected, but we probably don't want it anyway. 5) The Usability Team studies and Wikia both noted the textural edit links are not effective and have redesigned them as "Call to action" buttons. — Dispenser 22:42, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Its been a month without discussion so I'm filling the editprotection request to copy the sandbox to the main template and get things moving again. The most instructive parts of Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation/Fixing links were added to Template:Disambiguation needed/editintro, making a link to it a bit pointless. A tracking tag was added which can help us measure click, conversion rates, etc. Looking forward, we may want to investigate using {{button}} as something that's eye-catching to recruit newbies. — Dispenser 02:54, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Headbomb and I commented above that a separate "fix" link would be better. But you don't seem to have taken these on board. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:20, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
The "Fixing links" page is not useful enough for the typical reader. And while my edit intro which is derived from it, we'll fix it in time with the feedback provided by the tracking mechanism. Also, I feel that the click area of "fix" is too small for its importance and the icon would distinguish it from regular links. I'd be alright to change it to disambiguation needed — fix (all one line). Incidentally, {{dead link}} behaves similarly when using url=. — Dispenser 18:28, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to leave this languishing, but you don't have a consensus. I've pinged headbomb who is the only other person who commented above. If he's okay with your suggestion then I'll deploy it. Regards — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:07, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Sandbox version's good. What's the problem with it? Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:36, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, if there is no problem, we can implement. I don't think we need to link to the image file? I've removed this in the sandbox. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
There needs to be something that differentiates this link from the regular "wall of text" links found with other fix tags. I'm testing a call-to-action button approach, but some editor dislike the design and these seems to some workflow issues. — Dispenser 20:58, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
Per your revert, I think that is a free image - why does it need attribution? Otherwise, I think we need to find a free image so that a link is not needed. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:29, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
Both the GFDL and the CC-BY-SA licenses require attribution. On Wikipedia we do this by linking to the image description page. If you believe the image constitutes simple geometric shapes and thus lacks creativity, you can change the license to public domain (argument why fonts aren't copyrighted). After which we can unlink it. — Dispenser 21:59, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
I've created a new PD image, File:Tiny pencil.gif, if anyone wants to use it. Could be made a bit longer if needed. -- WOSlinker (talk) 21:33, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
I've asked User:Jorm to re-license the pencil as CC0 which he did. The simple blue design fits with the external link icon style. — Dispenser 04:10, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I cancelled out the "{{editprotected}}" - clearly it's not a simple uncontroversial edit, discussion is ongoing, and there's plenty of folks here who can edit it; if you need a specific edit on the protected page - with consensus - please re-request. Thanks.  Chzz  ►  02:31, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Almost two weeks have past with no more discussion. Re-enabling {{editprotected}}. — Dispenser 19:06, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I have implemented the sandbox code. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:54, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Disputed correct target?[edit]

It seems to me there ought to be a template to use for links that don't point to a disambiguation page, in order to indicate that it might not point to the correct article.

An example would be a link to a person's name, but the editor who added the link didn't check whether there is more than one person with that name. In some cases there may be no disambiguation page for the name, but the possibility that the linked-to page actually is the intended person cannot be ruled out. There also may or may not be an article for the person who is actually intended.

Is there an accepted way of dealing with this situation, or should we create a new template by which to tag such links? — Smjg (talk) 16:54, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Keep link, remove pencil[edit]

At Template:Disambiguation needed/sandbox I have standardized this template in accord with other WT:INLINE#Standardizations. The pencil icon was removed as no other inline template uses icons, its presence interferes with the link hoverbox, and its presence is confusing whether or not the user identifies it as a pencil. Instead, I kept the dab solver link and added a dab project policy link, similar to other 2-link inline templates like "dubious - discuss". Discussion above showed only one editor strongly favoring the pencil icon, but amenable to the word "fix" instead, with two other editors recognizing the standardization needs for language like "fix", so this change has the presumption of former consensus. Please consider or comment on the recommendation to replace this template with the current draft at the sandbox. (Incidentally, I'm not sure of why this page is still full-protected unlike most other inlines; no guidance at WP:HRT requires that, and semiprotection may be better.) JJB 18:37, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you cloned all of {{fix}} in order to add features it already supports (such as a different link title and an additional link). I've modified the sandbox to use text, link-title, post-text and so on, which gives the same effect without reinventing anything. If that's sufficient I'll sync. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 08:47, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Addendum: that was apparently changed with this edit. Are those concerns still applicable here? Can they be fixed elsewhere, rather than hacked around here? Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 08:49, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Chris. I don't know what the concerns amount to in the edit summary you linked. I am comfortable with sync to either your version or mine. The editor who closed {{fix}} may have a comment but it appears those concerns were not recognized by anyone else. JJB 18:25, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I have asked User:Dispenser to comment here. Also I note that the pencil was removed yesterday by User:Kaldari, but I don't know whether it was because of this discussion or not. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:48, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
Now that I've actually read, WP:ICON is really abused. The rational for the icon is: It an external link (so already has an icon); Indicates to users will be entering an online editor and not some a project page; Avoid using unsupported unicode symbols (e.g. ✎) and still unobtrusive. BTW, the hoverbox interferes could be fixed including the image in the span wrap. — Dispenser 23:31, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the response. I've disabled the request because I am not sure if anything else is needed here. If there is consensus to re-add the pencil, please reactivate. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:15, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 December 2014[edit]

Link still points to toolserver.org, which was shut down. Please change {{fullurl:tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py|page={{FULLPAGENAMEE}}&editintro=Template:Disambiguation_needed/editintro&client=Template:Dn}} to http://dispenser.homenet.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py?page={{FULLPAGENAME}}&commonfixes=on (or if you know a better way to form the link, change it to that). ekips39 04:57, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Maybe we should change tools: to point somewhere else. But I guess youre saying that this one tool moved to a private webhost, so tools: wouldnt be appropriate for this even if tools: pointed to wmflabs? Soap 05:00, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Maybe we should--that's a good point. You are correct, however, that in this case we still need to change the link. Also, if all tools: links were changed to point to wmflabs, many would still be broken because the URLs changed somewhat when they were transferred over. For example, tools:~snottywong/adminscore.html moved to toollabs:jackbot/snottywong/adminscore.html. ekips39 05:07, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
{{FULLPAGENAMEE}} with an extra E at the end is needed to encode characters for url's. At Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 132#What redirects links here I suggested http://dispenser.homenet.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py?page={{FULLPAGENAMEE}}&editintro=Template:Disambiguation_needed/editintro&client=Template:Dn to be similar to the old url. editintro=Template:Disambiguation_needed/editintro displays Template:Disambiguation needed/editintro at the top. I don't know whether client=Template:Dn does something. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:29, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done R'n'B (call me Russ) 12:50, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

dispenser.homenet.org doesn't work, why isn't it pointed here ? Like seriously, there's a needed, lets goto the needed page for information ? homenet, toolserver ? Dave Rave (talk) 07:50, 4 October 2015 (UTC)