Wikipedia talk:In the news

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Main Page image caption[edit]

After testing in multiple browsers (Chrome, IE, Firefox) and operating systems (Windows, Mac OSX, iOS), testing of image captions on the Main Page is complete. If there are no other objections, I plan to institute this on Saturday, July 18. All four sections of the Main Page that use small images (TFA, ITN, DYK, and OTD) will be switching to this new format.

For ITN, you'll want to replace the current image syntax with the new {{Main page image}} template.
{{In the news/image
 |image  =Pentaquark-main-page.svg
 |size   = 100x100px
 |title  = Pentaquark configuration
 |link   = 
 |border = no
 |alt    = Circles representing five quarks arranged in a ring


<div style="float:right;margin-left:0.5em;" id="mp-itn-img">
{{Main page image|image=Pentaquark-main-page.svg|caption=Pentaquark configuration|alt=Circles representing five quarks arranged in a ring}}

Things to note:

  1. Image size will be increasing to 120px width by default.
  2. If you are using an image with portrait orientation, try to avoid really skinny images (where the aspect ratio is like 1:3 or something). You can also use WIDTHxHEIGHT syntax if you want, but note that there will be a gap between the right edge of the image and the right edge of the container.
  3. Media files can be used too. Just put the filename in the image parameter.

Thanks. howcheng {chat} 22:42, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for pursuing this solution.
You noted above that the testing is complete. By whom was the testing performed? What resolutions and window configurations were used? Were any WebKit-based browsers included? Were the operating systems not listed (Android, Linux, FreeBSD, etc.) omitted? Were screen readers (used by people with visual impairments) tested? —David Levy 17:51, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Testing was done by User:TheDJ and User:Tvx. WebKit browsers (Chrome and Safari) were tested, as were varying resolutions (minimum 1024px wide for desktop; iOS devices always go full screen). The operating systems not listed were indeed omitted, as were screen readers (alas, I'm afraid I don't know anyone who has one ... although now that I think about it, I recall someone who used to comment on T:MP did use one... Graham something?). I'm not sure what you mean by "window configuration". howcheng {chat} 00:00, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, he's provided assistance in this area on multiple occasions (including when we accidentally broke the main page headings' functionality). —David Levy 00:30, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
Just FYI, Chrome now uses Blink, which was forked from WebKit.
Were any resolutions below 1024px wide tested? I realize that they mustn't be our main focus in 2015, but we should ensure that the page isn't completely broken.
The operating systems that I mentioned should be included, along with Windows Phone and BlackBerry OS (and possibly others). I can test the page in Android.
By "window configuration", I mean the manner in which the browser window is displayed (full-screen, half-screen, etc.). —David Levy 00:30, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks @Crisco 1492: for summoning me. The new format works well with JAWS and NVDA, and should work with other screen readers per the HTML source. Graham87 03:58, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Awesome. Glad the main page will remain accessible. Though now I'm wanting some red materia. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 04:04, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for checking, Graham. I went down to a fairly small size (below 768x1024) and it still looks fine. The full site on a mobile-size browser (360x480) is problematic, but I think that's to be expected. However, I can't figure out how to test ITN on the Main Page from a smartphone. I fear the only way to do it would be to temporarily put the captions in and view them live. howcheng {chat} 05:10, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
You just need to use two sandboxes: Main Page/sandbox which calls Template:In the news/sandbox (which you may need to copy). -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 08:42, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
From my mobile device, that sandbox page still shows the desktop view, not the mobile view. howcheng {chat} 19:45, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

@David Levy: Have your major concerns been satisfied? I know I've been unable to verify the Main Page in mobile view, but given the fact that so far we haven't seen any problems and that the rendered HTML is fairly standards-compliant, I don't expect any problem on that end. howcheng {chat} 00:49, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

@Howcheng: I was about to test a couple of Android versions, but I see that there wouldn't be much point in that now. I presume that we'll hear about any major problems that arise (hopefully none). —David Levy 11:23, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

I posted here that the recent changes have broken {{ITN candidate}}. Please also make the required modifications in that template, or revert these changes. Note that it is important to check for substitutions on other templates before making sweeping syntax changes. Mamyles (talk) 19:14, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Fixed. Apologies for the oversight. —David Levy 21:42, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Well, I won't presume to mess with it myself. This was actually a suggestion that the captions be centered, which for mugshots has been normal media practice. Care to give it a try? Sca (talk) 13:44, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
Many of our captions wrap to two (and occasionally three) lines. In my opinion, they don't look good with center alignment. —David Levy 19:04, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Wan Li[edit]

Can an admin make a call on the Wan Li item? Thanks Colipon+(Talk) 11:35, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

I've closed it as no consensus. --Bongwarrior (talk) 16:37, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

The Five Days of Jules Bianchi[edit]

Generalisimo Francisco Franco is still dead. Will Bianchi's blurb age off before his picture does? This seems to blow a hole in the bee ess theory that we couldn't post a picture of Pluto once the flyby became the second news item. μηδείς (talk) 01:11, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Captions etc[edit]

Can we establish a couple of guidelines here, even if to just update Wikipedia:In the news/Administrator instructions which still talks about adding (pictured) to blurbs which relate to displayed images? The Rambling Man (talk) 07:07, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Do we continue to add (pictured) as well as the caption?[edit]

I think we're moving in that direction, yes. howcheng {chat} 08:10, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Should captions contain wikilinks?[edit]

I don't see why not. howcheng {chat} 08:10, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Should this be consistent across all sections of the main page then? i.e. should all articles be linked in the captions, or should it be random? The Rambling Man (talk) 13:41, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
(Or in other words, shouldn't this have been communicated properly to all portions of the main page, and to those who regularly update it? I've now seen yet another complaint about the missing (pictured) (which caused so much "confusion") and a complaint about the appalling "captions" which make the main page look like an amateur school project. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:17, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
"What we say to dogs... and how the internet actually views Wikipedia ITN". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:33, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Headings of nominations[edit]

Shall we continue to use level-four heading or switch to level-three for nomination headings? I see some people using level-three. --George Ho (talk) 10:23, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

I thought the level 4 heading was required for something to do with the archiving? Modest Genius talk 10:04, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Product launches in "In the news"[edit]

This arose from Microsoft's Windows 10 release, which I suggested including in the "In the news" (ITN) section, which was unanimously rejected. I'll say at the outset that I think it's too late to include this particular release in ITN, since it's already two days past the release. This is more for future product releases of major impact.

I originally suggested this item for ITN because of the sheer number of personal computers out there. I don't have precise statistics, but a cursory Google search indicates that there are perhaps a billion PCs in the world, and over 90% of them run Windows. That means that there are perhaps 900 million Windows computers in the World - a huge amount compared to world population of ~7.3 billion. This makes the Windows 10 release a notable event. Compare for example some of the other events we've featured:

  • 1 Right now we're featuring the results of the latest Burundi presidential elections. With no disrespect meant to all Burundians, Burundi has a population of ~10 million. Compared to the 900 million Windows computers this is quite insignificant. In fact I doubt most people can place Burundi on a map. I'm not saying that this news item should not have been featured, but rather pointing out that the Windows 10 release is probably more impactful to most people than the 2015 Burundi presidential elections, and we featured the latter but not the former.
  • 2 Right now we're also featuring the Tour de France. This is a major cycling race, but it is one sporting event out of many in one sport out of many. I imagine there are far more people who don't really pay attention to competitive cycling than there are who do. Certainly I'd be highly skeptical that there are over 900 million people who followed the Tour de France. Again I'm not saying that this news item should not have been featured, but rather pointing out that the Windows 10 release is probably more impactful to most people.
  • 3 Finally we're featuring the thaw in US-Cuba relations. I'll just note here that the population of Cuba and the US combined is still far less than the number of Windows computers in the world.

When my proposal was rejected, the reason most cited was that it is advertising, which Wikipedia does not do. I don't disagree with that policy, but I'd also point out that by featuring the Tour de France we are doing free 'advertising' for the Union Cycliste Internationale, just like featuring the Olympic Games is free advertising for the IOC. I think the no-advertising policy is a good one and that we should indeed not feature anything that doesn't already receive wide coverage, but when something does receive wide coverage we should feature it regardless of whether or not it is advertising. As of time of writing, the Windows 10 release is (still) featured on the Yahoo and MSN websites.

I also want to address the slippery slope argument here: if we feature this, what's stopping us from featuring the latest product launched by my local store? The defining criteria, I would say, should be how much of a worldwide impact a particular item has. Windows 10 affects some 900 million computers, a very large amount. Most products don't reach that far; in fact my first feeling is that Windows 10 is well above the cutoff line, which should be much lower. Off the top of my head some other product launches that could be featured include iPhone releases (some ~300 million active iPhones in the world), Android OS releases (more debatable, since Android is so fragmented), and a highly anticipated book such as Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (sales of ~44 million according to its Wikipedia page). Major changes in a website such as Facebook, Wikipedia or Google should also be feature-able (there are like 1.5 billion Facebook accounts if I'm not mistaken, and Wikipedia / Google are some of the most visited websites in the world according to Alexa). Basically anything that impacts a large number of people, with a suitable definition of 'large' being perhaps the (admittedly somewhat arbitrary) population of Burundi: 10 million.

Seeking some opinions on this, and pinging @Ad Orientem, 331dot, Kudzu1, and Medeis: also as potentially interested. Banedon (talk) 06:38, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

  • The community has decided that elections merit posting on the merits without debating them; arbitrary population cutoffs(or other criteria to limit them) has been nominated before and rejected numerous times. I understand why you feel your nomination should have gone through, but your reasoning did not persuade enough people to obtain consensus to do so. I don't think it got the wide coverage that you state; it was not top headline news anywhere. Also, as I indicated, there was no indication of any sort of revolutionary advancement in operating systems, just the fact that Microsoft was trying to unify them across platforms running various Windows products. I don't feel that Microsoft deciding to give away its product to some customers is an advancement; they could do that at any time. It is also important to note that product launches are often preceded by press releases and coverage put out by the company involved to generate interest. 331dot (talk) 08:52, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
If you mean arbitrary population cutoffs for countries in which elections are OK to feature, then that makes sense. A less populous country can exert more power in international relations than a more populous one. I mention the cutoff as a rough guide to how many people are affected by any individual event before it should be (or at least considered for) featured. The Windows 10 launch certainly did not make headlines of general newspapers, but it did make headlines for specialist sections (like the technology section of a newspaper). This is to be expected of most news items really - certainly for example the Tour de France didn't make front pages even of sports sections in my local newspapers, since they focus on sports more locals follow and / or on local competitions. Similarly scientific advances such as the discovery of Kepler 452b or New Horizons reaching Pluto would not be expected to make headlines of newspapers. But they will be mentioned at some point, and they are of international interest.
I think what's new in Windows 10 isn't really relevant in considering whether its release is an item worth featuring, just like the fact that Windows 10 is free. I included that fact in the nomination because otherwise the blurb would be "Microsoft releases Windows 10", a 4-word blurb that seems unnaturally short. What I feel is relevant in deciding whether or not to feature a news item is how many people will be affected / interested in it, and in that I think the Windows 10 release (and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, for that matter) passes easily. They may not be headline news, but they are of interest to a wide (and international) audience. Banedon (talk) 09:44, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
As this is 'In the news'; news coverage is relevant. This isn't called "Items people might find interesting" or "Items that might affect you". Beyond that I would just say that we just have a difference of opinion here; I thank you for the nomination and I am sorry you weren't able to convince others of your position. 331dot (talk) 09:50, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
I would add that generally if an item is only featured in specialty or niche publications, it often has a hard time getting posted, as of course a publication about computers would discuss product releases and press releases by companies. Sports items often get posted on front pages of newspapers/media outlets or are not in separate sections. 331dot (talk) 09:54, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
  • A thought about "worldwide impact": generally on ITN, "relative importance" (very important to a small group of people: Burundian election) is perhaps more key than "additive importance" (Facebook introduces stickers to inbox messages, affecting 1.44 billion users...let's be real, relatively not that important but affecting a large group of people) for considering ITN items. I think my issue with software and product releases is the idea of planned obsolescence or having crystal ball-type issues: a new version's just a few years down the road so what does this specific product matter that much, or calling something "revolutionary" or "gamechanging" when we don't know if that really is the case or not. Just my 2 cents. SpencerT♦C 10:31, 31 July 2015 (UTC)