Template talk:Infobox officeholder

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Template-protected edit request on 9 May 2017[edit]

Replace image and caption with

| image = {{#invoke:InfoboxImage|InfoboxImage|image={{#invoke:Wikidata|getValue|P18|{{{image|FETCH_WIKIDATA}}}}}|size={{{image size|{{{image_size|{{{imagesize|}}}}}}}}}|sizedefault=frameless|upright={{{image_upright|1}}}|alt={{{alt|}}}|suppressplaceholder=yes}}

| caption = {{{image caption|{{{caption|{{{image_caption|{{#invoke:Wikidata|getImageLegend|FETCH_WIKIDATA}}}}}}}}}}} -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 09:31, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Again, please gain consensus for this change. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:43, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
the proposed code is flawed, you should only load the caption from wikidata if you load the image from wikidata. otherwise, you risk having a caption that doesn't match the image. Frietjes (talk) 13:35, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Religion in officeholder infoboxes[edit]

Should we remove from Template:Infobox officeholder the |religion= parameter (and the associated |denomination= one)?. --Anandmoorti (talk) 05:03, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I would think so, per the WP:VPPOL RfCs removing those parameters, across the board, from all infoboxes in which their inclusion was not vital to the nature of the infobox because it is for a religious leader, and where its use could be confusing or PoV, which is certainly going to be the case with politicians. It was in fact that very use (at Bernie Sanders) that triggered the RfC to be held in the first place.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  01:34, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
@Anandmoorti: PS, you could start the conversation there simply by copy-pasting the above post and reponse to the template's talk page, if you didn't want to open a more formal proposal. I would suggest not to just go remove the parameters, or it will probably cause a predictable shitstorm. There are many people convinced (wrongly in my view) that religion is a vital parameter in politician templates, and they need to be out-argued the long way.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  01:56, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

@SMcCandlish:--Anandmoorti (talk) 03:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

The religion label should be removed. Also see Template talk:Infobox officeholder/Archive 21#Religion parameter. Johnuniq (talk) 03:55, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
Please give your opinion on this issue should we remove religion level from the template infobox. @Robert McClenon: @Mduvekot: @Jayron32: @Ajraddatz: @Mandruss: @Curly Turkey:, @Pigsonthewing: @JzG:.--Anandmoorti (talk) 13:18, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
@SMcCandlish: help nobody is commenting please go ahead and delete the religion parameter I can't because I don't have access to edit the page.--Anandmoorti (talk) 04:49, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to decline to do this myself, for blood pressure reasons.  :-/ I have too many grossly uncivil edit stalkers who like to revert me on anything relating to infoboxes, even when I obviously have an RfC consensus behind me. I would ask an admin to do it [update: I have done so below], or open an RfC about whether there's some alleged reason this template should be exempt from the results of the RfC, even though the RfC was specifically triggered by this parameter in politicians' infoboxes to begin with.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  20:53, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Here's the most recent relevant RfC:

  • Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 126#RfC: Religion in biographical infoboxes (closed 11 April 2016): consensus to remove the religion and denomination parameters from {{Infobox person}} and its derivatives, with the exception of the infobox for religious leaders, for whom they are necessarily relevant. This RfC was triggered by disputes about Bernie Sanders, and very explicitly applies to politicians.

    That is more than enough, though it came on the heels of several other RfCs (mostly at Template talk:Infobox person) concluding that use of these parameters (and ethnicity, which was removed from bio infoboxes in another RfC around the same time as the one linked above) had proven problematic as infobox data, e.g. describing nations as collectively having a religion, labeling atheism and agnosticism as religions, etc.

    I'm not going to make the edit myself, because the TemplateEditor bit is for technical work, not for making changes to templates that involve consensus interpretation or enforcement. An admin should do it, as an administrative action to implement the results of repeated consensus discussion outcomes about this – including at Village Pump, our broadest set of eyeballs and brains, not just on "local consensus" infobox talk pages.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  07:16, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

    • I think Fram has already removed the religion field, and saw that there is no "denomination". That appears to be the case so I removed {{Editprotected}}. Is something more needed? Johnuniq (talk) 08:05, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

I have removed religion. A first test shows that the template still works, but that you get a warning in preview if you use the religion parameter. I haven't found "denomination" in the template though. Fram (talk) 06:58, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. Denomination may've been removed previously. I was just responding to the request, made here and on my talk page, to remove both parameters; I didn't go digging in the code. I'm not sure why I got the request to begin with; maybe because I was involved in the RfC and am a TE.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  11:15, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Great job @Fram: for removing the parameter from the infobox, but in "Personal data" and "TemplateData" area section religion definition has not been removed completely, I guess may be you forgot.--Anandmoorti (talk) 04:07, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
? I can't find it, perhaps you mean in the documentation? I think anyone can update this if needed. Fram (talk) 04:51, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Right I'm talking about the documentation. Since you missed it that's why I notified you.--Anandmoorti (talk) 05:32, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
This apparently was corrected by User:Hddty. this morning already, thanks! Fram (talk) 07:08, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
@Fram: Maybe you should make a tracking category for religion. Hddty. (talk) 13:52, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
These are included in (under "R"), I don't think making separate tracking categories for each parameter is useful. Fram (talk) 08:55, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Disagree @Fram: It has already been removed one I disagree with that, there should be rule for citation but religion should remain, same as political party. --ThecentreCZ (talk) 11:05, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
I'm just implementing the RfC result. And in any case I think "political party" is more precise and in general more important for infobox officeholder (if it is a religion-based party, the party affiliation will give information about the religion anyway: if it is not a religion-based party, then how important is religion for the office anyway in most cases?) Religion is only removed from the infobox: for persons where it is important, it can still be mentioned in the article (and in the first sentence of the lead for those people where it is crucial), and in categories, so it is not as if their religion is removed from the articles. Fram (talk) 11:32, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Alma mater include drop-outs ?[edit]

There is an RFC at Melania Trump Talk page Over whether to list Alma Mater for Maelania Trump since she did not complete the college. Please do make a comment at here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markbassett (talkcontribs) 05:07, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

This is rehash. The answer is "no".  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  20:46, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
SMcCandlish -- rehash where ? The template archives discuss Alma some, but do not seem to deal with the aspect and points like dropouts (Barbara Bush or when to say Education instead for drop out Bill Clinton. Whether to use guidance from IM Person is also of interest -- but in any case, a RFP on usage of this template seems like it should be noted at the template involved. (Even if it may be more about the individual reactions than the precedents or the intended use of the template.) Markbassett (talk) 23:47, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
I don't keep a running list of every recurrent discussion.  :-) Try the Advanced Search features to find previous threads, which most often happen in article talk pages: [1].  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  23:50, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Mayor[edit]

As with president/PM/chancellor/governor/etc., it would be useful to be able to denote the mayors individuals serve under (e.g. in the case of deputy mayors); I'm attempting to insert an infobox on Xavier Breton but no equivalent parameter exists. Mélencron 20:15, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Parliamentary group parameter[edit]

I'm attempting to update French politics articles right now (which for the most part are outdated) and in the process one of the things I'd like to do is ensure that articles on all current deputies and senators have a decent article (i.e. infobox and well-cited). One of the limitations of this template is that it doesn't allow specifying a parliamentary group parameter. This would prove useful in certain circumstances where the parliamentary group is not the same as the party affiliation: e.g., Nuihau Laurey is a Tapura Huiraatira politician, part of the UDI–UC parliamentary group (Senate elections listed by parliamentary group, not individual parties; UDI–UC group contains numerous parties). It'd be included within the main office set of parameters if added. Mélencron 01:15, 26 June 2017 (UTC)