Template talk:Jews and Judaism

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The leadership section begins with top historic figures (Hillel, Shammai, Yehudah haNasi, Saadia Gaon and ends, bizarrely, with Michael Lerner. Whatever his significance, Michael Lerner is dwarfed by such unlisted leaders as David Saperstein or Avi Weiss, to name just two. —Anomalocaris (talk) 19:26, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

WP:SOFIXIT applies. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 19:38, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Still messed up. Many of the Rabbis were very important, (like RASHI), but weren't exactly the leaders of their respective strains of Judaism in their time. Furthermore, many more important leaders are left out. I'm patching it up now. Yserbius (talk) 04:29, 6 September 2015 (UTC)


This template is much too long. Can we break it into several different templates or otherwise shorten it? tahc chat 18:47, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

(talk) 19:26, 24.01.2015 2013 (UTC) MShabazz I have added very important things Related to Jews and Judaism, and edited the Template. I have worked really hard for it. To me it's seems very relevant and Necessary to add all of these, they provide a much broader vision on this vast subject. Perhaps it is necessary to divide it into 2 - one Jews and the other Judaism. Moreover, it seems to me that you are stalking me and cancel everything that i Writing, I can not feel that you are harassing me, please stop it. There was no reason to cancel half the things you undid to me, it's ridiculous and alienating. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaoXan 14:06, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

@DaoXan: please don't accuse other editors of "stalking" you when they are only reverting your sweeping changes of this template. You may have good ideas for improving the template, but you MUST gain consensus first. PLEASE READ WP:CONSENSUS and then you can propose a page rename, or work out what you think should be included in each subsection, or whatever else you think would benefit this template. BUT YOU MUST GET CONSENSUS FIRST. Yoninah (talk) 20:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

History section to first section?[edit]

Should the History section be the first section of the template instead of the 14th? That feels right to me, but I work from a sense of history so that viewpoint comes from within that particular mix. So throwing it out there as an idea and discussion point. Randy Kryn 1:37, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

I think that suggestion makes sense. I would even go as far as to let you move around all sections into a more logical order. Make a bold edit, referring this section, and if other editors will see reason to further tweak the result, all the better. Debresser (talk) 18:02, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Removal of ethnic groups[edit]

Several ethnic groups were removed recently, as usual for the removing editor without any prior discussion, on the flimsy basis that the template is not a [[History of Jews in ..]] template. That is however not a reason to not mention whole ethnic groups of Jews. Especially since for example Kurdish Jews could easily be replaced by Kurdish Jews, and likely others as well. Debresser (talk) 04:25, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

As usual this user acts like a jerk. I put kurdish jews in the template in the first place.--Monochrome_Monitor 09:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
There's also no rule saying every edit has to be discussed on a talk page.--Monochrome_Monitor 09:32, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for calling me a jerk (WP:NPA violation). Since you don't WP:OWN this template it is utterly irrelevant who added Kurdish Jews. That was just one example, in case you don't understand the difference between an example and an argument. In any case, you had nothing substantial to say regarding the fact that you removed ethnic groups for unclear reasons and without discussion. I suppose you don't have anything to say, since it was another one of your poor choices. Also, you violated WP:BRD which says that if your edit is reverted, that is a sure sign you should discuss (by the way, who is the jerk after that?). Best proof is that your revert was promptly undone by an uninvolved editor for precisely that reason. On a final note, not every edit has to be discussed, but see WP:CAUTIOUS, that major edits should be discussed. Debresser (talk) 16:47, 22 June 2016 (UTC)


I'm thinking of adding more titles for current and historic communal roles, for example: lehrer (Jewish educator) and firzogerin (precentress). Aharon (talk) 00:57, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

A lehrer is the same as a teacher, at a school. Since when is "schoolteacher" a specific Jewish role? Debresser (talk) 09:18, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

New version[edit]

The template is ridiculously large. Navbox for such a vast subject should be reserved for basic topics. I reworked its structure, added very notable omissions and removed all those unnecessary articles that are linked in the articles included in the new version:

--Triggerhippie4 (talk) 01:46, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

  • I agree that the current template is much too big, and I think you've done an excellent job of whittling it down to its essentials. I would support the replacement of the current template with the version proposed above. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 04:05, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
  • It is missing Jewish Nationalism as a headline subject. Under that heading would be Haskalah, Zionism, Israel, post-Zionism etc. Onceinawhile (talk) 07:50, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
Haskalah is listed in "History". "Zionism", "Israel" and "post-Zionism" are similar and overlapping topics which can be found clicking on "Politics". Also, link to "Land of Israel" is already in the template. Zionism can be added to "History", but not as a separate heading. And "Jewish Nationalism" cannot be used as a separate heading with "Zionism" in it, because there's no such articles – the former is a redirect to the latter. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 08:58, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
I added Zionism to History. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 11:44, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
Is the idea to split off content into more specific navboxes? If so, what topic areas would be good for the new templates? --Yair rand (talk) 01:59, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
@Yair rand: Most of the removed articles are already in various templates, such as {{Jewish history}}, {{Jews and Judaism in Europe}}, {{Holy sites in Judaism}}, {{Jewish life}}, {{Jewish prayers}}. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 11:09, 20 December 2017 (UTC)