Template talk:Percussion instruments
|WikiProject Musical Instruments||(Rated Template-class)|
|WikiProject Percussion||(Rated Template-class)|
Pre-determined and Non-pre-determined pitch
I don't understand what this means. For example, the triangle is listed under "Non-pre-determined pitch", whereas it obviously has a fixed pitch determined by its size and shape. The same is true of the cowbell. Elsewhere, many of the instruments listed under "Non-pre-determined pitch" seem to have no well-defined pitch at all, rather than a pitch that is "non-pre-determined", whatever that may mean. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 03:53, 3 April 2010 (UTC).
A flexatone is actually a tuned percussion instrument, capable of playing a melody. Khachaturian wrote the flexatone part notated on a treble clef, and here it is being ably performed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJjyJOVVgHA#t=2m40s Jon (talk) 10:16, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- Quite right, a flexatone can be used as either pitched or unpitched. Andrewa (talk) 06:17, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Unsure whether, with the enormous number of percussion instrument articles and the number of instruments that can be used as either pitched or unpitched, this template will be useful in its current form. At least, some major updating necessary... perhaps just list types of percussion instruments, not all of them. Andrewa (talk) 06:19, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
I have removed the automatic inclusion in Category:Percussion instruments. There are now classification-based subcategories, and most if not all instruments should be in several of these... Ideally at least four, one in each of the classification container categories. Andrewa (talk) 06:22, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
- It seems that trying to maintain these lists manually will be an impossible task. It would probably be better to have a template that includes the classification, as well as fields for remarks and so on, so the lists can be generated from all the articles. That would also allow the Percussion footer to remain up to date. MichiHenning (talk) 05:48, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
- Unsure how this can be done, but I'm not familiar with the complex features of template coding. But it sounds like a very good idea. What do you have in mind, more specifically?
- Maintaining the lists of instruments is exactly what the categories avoid.
- Obviously I wasn't watching this talk page, apologies! I also note that this footer is part of WikiProject Musical Instruments, so we probably can't abandon it completely.
- But changes are needed. The current content is arbitrary and counterproductive, and the task of maintaining it unmanageable.
- I'm a programmer, but I've never written a Wikipedia template before, so I don't know how hard it would be to do. But the idea would be that the footer would be generated automatically from all articles that have the category Category:Percussion instruments or any subcategory thereof. The same could probably be done for the various list articles. MichiHenning (talk) 08:41, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
- That would be great for the list articles! I put some work into them earlier and there is a great deal still to be done. Unsure whether it's practical to maintain them manually. Not without greater participation.
- But the footer needs both design and implementation IMO. The current setup, even if maintained somehow, is unhelpful for several reasons. Listing all percussion instruments is probably not wise; Category:Pitched percussion currently contains 65 articles and the template lists only 30 for example, and Category:Unpitched percussion only 37, while the template lists 62, but there are many more unpitched percussion instruments than that. There are also some problematical ones... bell is the most obvious case of an instrument used both as pitched (change ringing) and unpitched (most other church bells).
- Seeing this division between pitched and unpitched as the primary division of percussion is archaic even in an orchestral context, and has always been confined to this context, and many of our readers are aware of this, see this diff.
- Nor does every article in the category tree below Percussion instruments describe a particular percussion instrument. We'd need to set up a structure that did, and have articles such as unpitched percussion instrument or idiophone in separate categories to the intrument articles. And how about drum, cymbal, and rattle (percussion instrument)? If they are regarded as instrument articles, where do snare drum, splash cymbal and maracas fit in?
- My immediate reaction is that the number of links in the footer should be drastically reduced, to provide a route to each of these articles but not always a direct link. Perhaps direct links to overview articles such as drum and cymbal, orchestral percussion, world percussion, articles such as that. These overview articles should then be rich in links, both in flowing text and in bulleted, columned lists, to cover all the lower level articles.
- Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Andrewa/sandbox&oldid=500604748 and tell me what you think. Andrewa (talk) 10:37, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
- Done. I was concerned that the old one  had gong and bell both listed as pitched, and some other worries. And it was last updated fairly recently . Hopefully, having the word examples will discourage others from adding many obscure instruments, which IMO is a waste of time as we'll never cover even a small proportion of them. There are a lot of percussion instruments!