Template talk:Refimprove

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A |talk= parameter is allowed; setting this to any value will result in the message "See talk page for details."[edit]

This statement appears in the template page:
"A |talk= parameter is allowed; setting this to any value will result in the message "See talk page for details."
It appears to be incorrect. For example see article: ID3. The tag there appears to be formed as the template page describes and yet does not display as described.
LookingGlass (talk) 09:06, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

@LookingGlass: The template documentation shows that it's |talk=, but the article ID3 was using |Talk=. When templates use named parameters, the parameter names are always case-sensitive (unless the template has been specially coded to recognise more than one form); I've fixed it.
Please also note that </BR> is invalid; I fixed your uses above to <BR> which is one of the two valid forms. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:08, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, for both :) Much appreciated. (I could never spot Wally either!) LookingGlass (talk) 19:02, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
It seems that setting |talk=y also generates an entry at Special:WhatLinksHere/Y. Could someone please see if the template code could be tweaked to prevent this? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 01:12, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Repeated removals of this refimprove tag[edit]

Duplicate discussion; I refer editors who wish to comment to WP:V, where there is more participation. The two editors participating here have either copied or mostly copied the same comments to the other discussion. Sunrise (talk) 21:38, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I tagged a largely uncited mall article with this standard article refimprove tag.

But the tag has been deleted three times, without any refs being provided, by tag-team edits here.

I explained both in my edit summaries and on the article talk page, as well as on the main removing editor's talk page here, that this refimprove tag is appropriate, of long-standing use, and how unreferenced material should be referenced if the editor wishes to remove the tag.

The main removing editor, and his fellow editor, have still however continued to delete the tag. Without addressing the focus of the tag.

Though unconnected otherwise, it did catch my attention that this follows immediately the main removing editor disagreeing with my AfD nomination of a different mall, here.

Thoughts? Epeefleche (talk) 23:14, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

  • This looks to be a near-identical post to that at WT:V, posted there at 20:53.  Unscintillating (talk) 03:26, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Characterizing this case as a removal is a mischaracterization.  There has never been consensus at this article to emplace a banner refimprove tag.  Unscintillating (talk) 03:26, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
  • I don't agree that it was a largely uncited mall article.  Even if from your viewpoint that is the case, nothing has stopped you from adding inline cn and refimprovesection tags.  Unscintillating (talk) 03:26, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
  • After I mentioned Harlequin at the AfD, you followed me to the article and added the refimprove tag, not that that has anything to do with anything, but since you are casting aspersions, it bears clarification.  Unscintillating (talk) 03:26, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Since the article has a number of references, it was not clear what material you thought needed citations, and I suggested that you use inline cn tags so as to be clear.  This was not good enough for you, and you went into edit-warring mode.  Another editor stopped you from successfully edit warring and forced you to the talk page, which seems to be what this is all about, that the community is not empowering you to post tags against consensus, and is requiring you to discuss.  Unscintillating (talk) 03:26, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
  • I have responded in detail at Talk:Harlequin Shopping Centre, and you've been unable to refute the force of my reason.  The footnote you found at WP:V supports what I've said.  Unscintillating (talk) 03:26, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
  • The refimprove tag is pointed to, as a tag to use, by our policy wp:v. It is also used in over 10,000 articles.
I also explained in multiple edit summaries and talk page comments why it was being applied in the instant article. And that to address it you could add RS refs to the unreferenced sentences. Your assertion that it was "it was not clear what material you thought needed citations" is baseless. As I said many times, the material that needs citations is the material not cited to RSs ... which is the same as what this template refers to in 10,000 other articles.
The "other editor" gave zero reason for deleting the tag.
Your reason -- which would indict all 10,000 uses of the refimprove tag -- is not an appropriate one.
BTW, I've been editing mall articles generally, and many Canadian mall articles specifically, well before the edit in question -- I didn't follow you to the article at all. :::And the issue I am raising is indeed your removal of the tag -- that's not at all a mischaracterization of the point I am raising.
And of course it was a largely uncited article, when I applied the tag here, as anyone can see. Your approach would allow any editor to willy nilly remove the refimprove tag in the 10,000 articles across the project where it is used, claiming that, even when they are told multiple times that it applies to the text not supported by RSs, that they simply still don't understand what that means. Epeefleche (talk) 07:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Here is how I've responded to your similar post at WT:V.  Unscintillating (talk) 12:49, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
  • The statement from policy to which the footnote is attached states, "...consider adding a citation needed tag as an interim step."  Your preferred tag, the policy's footnote considers a next-to-last resort.  Unscintillating (talk) 12:09, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Of the three edits that upset you, one was to convince you to use citation needed tags in preference to the refimprove tag, and two were to require you to use the talk page to explain your preferred version of the article.  IMO, your third insertion of the tag, diff, was edit warring.  Unscintillating (talk) 12:09, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
  • There are not 10,000 pages at Talk:Harlequin Shopping CentreUnscintillating (talk) 12:09, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Your last post has decided that "of course" it was largely uncited, but dismisses the fact that an editor, myself, had said that the tag was unclear.  At that point, whether or not you thought it was clear, there was no consensus that the tag was clear.  The place to discuss remains at Talk:Harlequin Shopping Centre, which has an ongoing discussion about specifics to the article.  Unscintillating (talk) 12:09, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

I have requested closure of this discussion, diffUnscintillating (talk) 14:07, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should this template be used more sparingly?[edit]

Since only B Class articles and higher are suitably referenced, this template is technically applicable to all others. But if we apply it that slavishly (e.g. using a bot) it would probably means about 90% of Wikipedia being tagged. I suspect that is neither desirable, nor would it enhance Wikipedia's credibility. In my view, it's used far too often anyway - e.g. even when there are reputable sources in the biography. So can we define some boundaries that would see it used more sparingly and surgically? Failing that, maybe we could use a smaller, far less obtrusive symbol or keyword near the top of the 90%-ish of articles (like the padlocks) that haven't yet achieved B status or above, and replace this tag entirely. Bermicourt (talk) 16:03, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

No. It is incorrect to say that "only B Class articles and higher are suitably referenced". Referencing is just the first criterion at WP:BCLASS, but there are five other criteria on this checklist, all six of which must be met: if the article fails any one of them, it can't be better than C-class. This means that a C-class article may be fully refd, like Reading Southern railway station. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:36, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
So is this template to be used on every article that fails the B Class standard for referencing? (I take your point that there may be articles that pass the referencing test for B Class, but fail elsewhere - not common in my experience) Or are there any other criteria? --Bermicourt (talk) 18:31, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
The main problem with {{refimprove}} is that it's a subjective judgment, unlike {{unreferenced}} which is objective - either there are refs, or there aren't. One person's "suitably referenced" is another's "not suitably refd". When I see somebody do this, I often respond with this. If we move along that railway line, the next stop is Blackwater railway station which has a justifiable {{unreferenced}}; but speaking personally (others may disagree), I wouldn't slap a {{refimprove}} on Farnborough North railway station even though it's well short of B-class. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:34, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, that's helpful. I suppose a key criterion is the requirement for "inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged, and for all quotations" at WP:RS. But in practice, some editors seem to see any sentence as "likely to be challenged" and that's where the subjectivity comes in. Personally I think we overdo the inline references in articles, especially c.f. the literature. IMHO inliners should be used only on claims "likely to the challenged", but there should be more emphasis on one or more authoritative sources in the bibliography that cover the subject in depth and back up the article. But hey, that's another debate on another talk page. --Bermicourt (talk) 06:18, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
There is some advise on WP:V see (footnote 3) and the paragraph it supports. -- PBS (talk) 23:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks PBS, that's useful. I had forgotten there was a section tag as well. Bermicourt (talk) 15:44, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 3 February 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. As noted by Mike Cline in his relisting, there doesn't seem to be much opposition (only two editors actually opposed the move), but there doesn't seem to be any agreement on what the preferred alternative title is. Improve references seems have some support, but I think GoingBatty had a point by noting that this could be interpreted to mean that the existing references require improving. Number 57 19:45, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:RefimproveTemplate:Ref improve – I propose to move this template to {{Ref improve}}, replacing {{Refimprove}} with a redirect to the new title. This matter has been raised many times at WT:TW and was mentioned also at Wikipedia:Bot owners' noticeboard#Yobot. In my view, the "canonical" name of a template should be as clear as possible, and this can be done by spacing out the lexical components of the title. I note also that all the related templates with multi-word titles have spaces between the words.

The motivation for this request is that Twinkle lists the more friendly name, "ref improve", but bots come along afterwards and change it to the canonical name, "refimprove". I think it is neater to be able to list "ref improve" in the list of article maintenance tags, so it would be great to be able to move the actual template to this title. Needless to say, all existing titles would be maintained as redirects. — relisted --Mike Cline (talk) 12:30, 28 February 2015 (UTC)This, that and the other (talk) 23:38, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

  • I totally agree. The current trend is to separate words. Moreover, we should change {{refimprove section}} back to {{ref improve section}}. I always thought {{refimprove}} to be against convention. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:17, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Why we're at it, why not make it even clearer by expanding "ref". We could use Template:Reference improve or Template:Improve references for best clarity. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:57, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Disagree. See the multiple redirects that point to this template. Users can already use any one of those if they do not want to use "refimprove". If a wording (such as "Reference improve") is missing, feel free to add it. --Dodi 8238 (talk) 11:58, 4 February 2015 (UTC) [edited 14:10, 4 February 2015 (UTC)]
    It would be better to have the bots using a term which can easily be understood by novice editors, don't you think? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:10, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
    Now that I think of it, it does make sense. I'd make the default "Improve referencing", though. I think that is the core message behind the template. "Improve references" sounds like it puts more weight on the references that already exist in the article. --Dodi 8238 (talk) 14:10, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
    Referencing or references are both fine with me. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:58, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Template:Improve references is even better! I agree. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:14, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I think it would be more consistent to rename the template so that the words are separated. --ToonLucas22 (talk) 13:40, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Note that the template text is asking us to improve the article by adding references, which is different than a directive to improve the existing references. If we're going to rename this template for clarity, should it be something like "add references"? GoingBatty (talk) 18:07, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Very interesting discussion spawning here from my suggestion that the proper way to fix the issue of Twinkle using a redirect for a maintenance tag and bots using AWB replacing those templates with the non-redirect version being to move the code to the more commonly used version of the template. I see multiple suggestions above, and am thinking that the entire naming scheme for the maint tag system needs a review. I know what that will involve and how it will end up, so I'll make it simple from my perspective. I support the idea of moving this to a clear and concise name that is friendly for new users and not hard for established users to adapt to. That said, I'd think the clearest destination for this template based on its message will be {{References needed}}. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 18:29, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
  • {{Improve references}} is my choice. It is clearer that there are already references but that they need improvement (whereas {{References needed}} is ambiguous in that respect). -- P 1 9 9   14:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Leave it as Refimprove (less typing --the reason for "ls" "mv" etc on UNIX systems). Besides the using "references" confuses many people as they do not realise it means "more inline citations". -- PBS (talk) 15:47, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment See also {{uncategorized}} and {{Catimprove}} which has a similar naming convention. -- PBS (talk) 14:09, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
    • I take your point about catimprove (although that one should also be renamed). But "uncategorized" is a single word in the English language, unlike "refimprove", so I don't see the relevance... — This, that and the other (talk) 08:30, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
    If there are no references/categories use unreferenced/uncategorized if there is one of more use refimprove/catimprove the names are consistent. -- PBS (talk) 09:54, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Should we move forward and rename the template? -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:28, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

This is an RM request it will be closed by an uninvolved administrator who will decide what to do based on the RM close process. -- PBS (talk) 12:51, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Relisting Comment - While there appears to be no serious opposition to changing the name of this template, there is little clarity as to what the new name should be. There are at least five different suggestions above. Continue the discussion and nail down agreement on exactly what the new name should be. Thanks-Mike Cline (talk) 12:34, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Allow capital 'D' when using date parameter[edit]

I tried adding {{refimprove|Date=March 2015}} to a page but the "March 2015" didn't display. I've now found that the 'D' in Date has to be lower case. Should the template allow the 'date' keyword to be insensitive?--A bit iffy (talk) 15:41, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

AFAIK pretty much all templates break when you use a leading cap for a parameter name. For example, all of the citation templates I am familiar with will not work when date, author, first1, last1, title, etc., are typed with a leading cap. I do think it would be a good thing if they made a global software change so that all template parameters would automatically recognize and function when a parameter was given with a leading cap (maybe a post to WP:VPT would be good to see if that is feasible), but I don't see why this particular one should be singled out for special treatment as if it were especially prone to the error.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:05, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
@A bit iffy: Template parameter names are always case-sensitive: |date= and |Date= are treated as different parameters. Some templates - but by no means all - are coded to allow certain variations, for example the citation templates allow |ISBN= to be used as an alternative for |isbn=, but they needed to be specially set up to do this, which makes them slower - and even after that, they don't recognise |Isbn= because that hasn't been coded for.
There are several dozen cleanup templates - some are banners like {{refimprove}}, others are inline like {{citation needed}}, but they all recognise |date= - and as far as I know, none recognise |Date=. If we were to allow |Date= for {{refimprove}} we should be consistent and allow it for all of the others, in order to prevent confusion ("does this one allow |Date= or not?"). This is a big task: first, determine which templates recognise a |date= parameter (all of these for a start, and then some); second, amend each of those templates; third, wait for the complaints to come in that the system has become slower because the job queue is now reparsing all of the pages that use those templates, even though |Date= isn't used on more than a handful of pages. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:16, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Dated templates is a long list of templates that take a |date= parameter. GoingBatty (talk) 01:27, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Location of tag[edit]

There is a dispute (and brewing edit war) regarding the proper location at which to place the refimprove maintenance/cleanup template/tag. Input of others would be helpful.

Discussion is here. --Epeefleche (talk) 22:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

There have been a number of discussion on this talk page about the location of the tag:
There is clearly no consensus as to where to put it. So I am not sure why Codename Lisa made the edit Revision as of 19:07, 24 March 2014 so I am going to revert it. -- PBS (talk) 23:43, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
I would object to that. You are not sure why user:Codename Lisa (whom you did not ping) made that edit??? Surely, the editor was perfectly clear in her edit summary. Which stated: "Manual of Style represents the community consensus. When it says something, it means there *is* consensus. Furthermore, vast consensus through editing confirms this". What about that left you "not sure" why the editor made the edit?
I agree wholeheartedly with that editor. The vast consensus for editing, and the other guidelines pointed to above, reflect consensus. You've simply pointed to a few non-consensus views (the first, seven years old, and the second and third discussions sparsely attended), that don't like the guidelines or the consensus through editing. We edit with the community consensus, not in accord with your personal contrary view.
Be honest -- you are a seasoned editor -- haven't you noticed that overwhelmingly across the project in article you have seen placement is at the top. In accord with the guidelines mentioned here? Epeefleche (talk) 03:09, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
"When it says something, it means there *is* consensus." You are having a laugh. Usually things appear in the MOS with only a handful of the usual editors discussing it.
No because compared to the numbers of articles that exist I do not view many and of those I do few have {{refimprove}} templates. However there is a way to check:
So about 0.75% pages with {{refimprove}} currently have the template in a section and about 1.4% of all articles have a {{refimprove}} template.
-- PBS (talk) 14:51, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello, PBS
The most important thing is first: The diff of mine to which you are referring, is a reversion. Yet you resort to counter-reverting while you know there is a dispute? I thought that was against the editing policy. And you don't even notify me when it is being discussed? Wow. Never had I seen the words "admin" and "edit-warring" getting so close to each other.
Second, laugh all you want but if what MOS:LAYOUT says is not borne of the community consensus, then delete it. (Of course, I expect an evidence to that effect.) Manuals of Style are not put under ArbCom discretionary sanctions to forge community consensus. And I also don't know what your search strings are supposed to show.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 18:45, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
The stats was to answer Epeefleche's question. I am puzzled you say "The diff of mine to which you are referring, is a reversion" if so what was it reverting because AFAICT the wording with "no consensus" had been there since Revision as of 03:19, 9 August 2007 if you think your edit was a reversion then which edit were you reverting? -- PBS (talk) 20:47, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
@PBS: Huh! Face-surprise.svg Okay. It seems I have made a horrible mistake: The doc page that said there is no consensus as to where to put this template and I intended to revert on that date is still saying it! Facepalm3.svg mea cupla.Still, coming to a discussion page, writing a message like your very first and then doing it is clearly not conducive to consensus-building.
But here is my logic: If (a) there is no consensus about how to one thing, and (b) there is instruction on how to do one thing, then (c) that instruction is not supported by consensus. In this case, if (A) there is not consensus as to where to put {{refimprove}}, and (B) MOS:LAYOUT is saying to put it below the hatnotes, then (C) MOS:LAYOUT's statement is not supported by the consensus.
However, as a compromise, we can write: "According to MOS:LAYOUT, this template must be placed after hatnotes, not before them. Other than that, there is no consensus as to where to place it." Still, I don't like the assertion of non-existence. Articles with such statements often fail WP:FACR. The remedy is to write "Discussions X, Y and Z, held on such and such date and time failed to achieve consensus."
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 22:34, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

When to use {{Unreferenced}}[edit]

Header was: Requirements of WP:V.

From the edit history of the template documentation:

  • 05:26, 4 July 2015‎ Ruakh ((The documentation for {{Unreferenced}} states that it should only be used when there are *no* references (not when there are merely no *inline* references).)
  • 00:38, 5 July 2015‎ PBS (Undid revision 669877567 by Ruakh (talk) References without inline citations do not meet the requirements of WP:V. Discuss it on the talk page if you like.)

From my talk page:

The documentation for {{Unreferenced}} states that it should only be used when there are no citations at all, whereas the documentation for {{Refimprove}} states that {{Unreferenced}} should be used whenever there are no inline citations. When I changed the {{Refimprove}} to be consistent with the {{Unreferenced}} documentation, you reverted it; so, now they're inconsistent again. Are you planning to fix that?

RuakhTALK 01:56, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

@User: Ruakh: The template says "This article needs additional citations for verification" The only citations the meet the requirements of the verifiability policy are inline citations (see the section Responsibility for providing citations). -- PBS (talk) 13:00, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, you seem to be confused. The text that you quote is from {{Refimprove}}, but the statement that I corrected is about {{Unreferenced}}. (If you want to drive a change to {{Unreferenced}}, that's fine, but [[Template:Refimprove/doc]] is not the place to do it.) —RuakhTALK 18:54, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
I am not confused. The only citations the meet the requirements of the verifiability policy are inline citations (see the section Responsibility for providing citations), general references (as currently defined) do not. -- PBS (talk) 08:20, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
Your second sentence may be correct — it may be that only inline citations satisfy WP:V — but your first sentence seems pretty clearly wrong, in that you keep making an irrelevant point as if it were relevant.
{{Unreferenced}} is not intended to be used on all articles that don't satisfy WP:V; rather, there are several different templates for flagging WP:V issues, depending on the details. (This is made clear even by your mistakenly-edited version of Template:Refimprove/doc, since the whole reason it mentions {{Unreferenced}} is that it's explaining how to choose the right template for a given article with WP:V issues.)
So the question is not, "Does WP:V allow an article to have general references but no inline citations?", but rather, "Is {{Unreferenced}} appropriate for an article with general references but no inline citations?". And the answer to that question is clearly "No". The documentation of {{Unreferenced}} is very explicit about this. That is what {{No footnotes}} is for.
Do you understand now?
RuakhTALK 22:32, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
I already understand the relationship between this template and {{unreferenced}} and policy: See the footnote 3 in verifiability policy. There are problems with {{no footnotes}} the first that the wording is imprecise "related reading" ought to be "Further read" and second it implies that "related reading" external links can be reliable sources and that those sections contain sources that can be used as citations. This is not the case. If anything needs changing it is not the wording on the documentation of this template, but the wording of {{no footnotes}} and the documentation of {{unreferenced}}. If "general references" do not meet the requirements of the verifiability policy then what is the point of adding a template that (you alleged) is requesting general references, only for it to be immediately replaced by another ({{no footnotes}}) asking for in-line citations? Verifiability policy makes it clear that {{unreferenced}} can be used to request [in-line] citations to meet the policy requirements. -- PBS (talk) 08:53, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
Re: "There are problems with […]. If anything needs changing […]": SOFIXIT. When I posted on your talk-page, I invited you to fix the inconsistency; and again on this page, in my very first post, I reminded you that "If you want to drive a change to {{Unreferenced}}, that's fine". The problem is that you keep changing {{Refimprove}}'s documentation to say things about {{Unreferenced}} that conflict with {{Unreferenced}}'s own documentation. If you want to change how {{Unreferenced}} is used, then by all means, please go do that. If not, then please stand back and let me correct this template's documentation.
Re: "If 'general references' do not meet the requirements of the verifiability policy then what is the point of adding a template that (you alleged) is requesting general references, only for it to be immediately replaced by another ({{no footnotes}}) asking for in-line citations?": I've alleged no such thing. Let me turn this around: Even you must surely acknowledge that {{Unreferenced}} is not for articles that already have one inline citation, even if they need more. How would you respond to the question, "If a citation for only one claim does not meet the requirements of the verifiability policy then what is the point of adding a template that (you alleged) is requesting only one citation, only for it to be immediately replaced by another ({{refimprove}}) asking for citations to support the rest of the article?"?
RuakhTALK 23:43, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
You asked two questions, the first is that at the moment I do not wish to change the documentation of {{Unreferenced}} (although if you want to I will support such a change). As to the second question: it really has to do with gnomes and the underlying categories that the templates employ (Category:Articles lacking sources_from_date and Category:Articles needing additional references_from_date). Unreferenced is not requesting one citation it is requesting "citations to reliable sources". If someone only adds one inline citation, there are two possible outcomes no more inline citations are need to meet WP:V in which case no template is needed, or more inline citations are needed and a judgement has to be made whether in line {{citation needed}} is more appropriate than {{refimprove}}. -- PBS (talk) 12:52, 16 July 2015 (UTC)