Template talk:Reflist

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Deprecating |2, |3 etc.[edit]

I don't object to the general thrust of the documentation, but truly deprecating these in favor of your average editor knowing what an "em" is is problematic.

I have only seen articles use |3 once in a blue moon. It would possibly be better to just treat |2 as |30em under the hood, and to simply update the documentation here that |2 means "multiple columns" and |3 means tighter columns (however that might work), etc.

First I've heard of it was when my recent edit was reverted because |2 was "deprecated".[1] Well, OK, but what's the old saying about Perl, do what I meant not what I said? I meant to eliminate a bunch of extra whitespace in the references. I don't care how wide you screen is. -- Kendrick7talk 05:57, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm, |1 (the default) is also a fixed number of columns. I would support |1 = |50em, |2 = 30em and |3 = 20em. Kanguole 12:19, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
The intended default is set to be 30em (see the archives), once I get the code in check. That means other dynamic widths (like 20em) are optional. Fixed-widthcount columns are already discouraged. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 13:21, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Any one of the 27 archives in particular? Kanguole 13:27, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Try 25 onward. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 13:48, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
"fixed-width columns are already discouraged" - where? --Redrose64 (talk) 16:14, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Documentation: This feature [fixed columns] is now deprecated in favor of the option described above [dynamic columns], which is better suited to flexible formatting for a variety of display screen sizes, ranging from mobile phones and tablets to wide-screen "cinema" displays. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 18:10, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
That's a fixed number of columns, not a fixed width of columns. Fixed-width columns is the form {{Reflist|30em}}, which is not deprecated - indeed, it is the one referred to in your quote as "the option described above". --Redrose64 (talk) 20:42, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
When I say 'fixed', I mean fixed number; dynamic means auto-adjusting number of columns... -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 21:59, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
At 13:21, 26 March 2016 you wrote "Fixed-width columns are already discouraged." --Redrose64 (talk) 22:37, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
OK, I made a typo. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 23:30, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
OK, thanks for the info. If what is now (generally, on a typical non-wide screen) "|2" is set to just become the new default columnization, that would eliminate about 95% of the confusion I was predicting could come to pass. Kanguole:'s idea is also something I could get behind if for some reason that didn't work out. In the meantime, keep up the good work User:Edokter! -- Kendrick7talk 01:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC) maybe someday I'll get a day job as a historian and want to code in my spare time, instead of what is currently the other way around
No, that is not the new default... Let me explain again, without tripiing over my own words.
  1. Using a fixed, static number of columns, as done with |2, |3 etc. is bad and therefor deprecated. Unless for specific situations, it should not be used.
  2. Using a widht for columns, as with |30em, is good and should be promoted, as it adapts to every screen. And I intend for one day to make |30em the default.
OK, no I hope that clears out any confusion I may have caused. The only problem with |30em is how to handle single references. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 11:32, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
"And I intend for one day to make |30em= the default." – Have you considered that there may be articles where he omission of any parameter, relying on the current default behaviour of no columns, is a deliberate choice? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 15:04, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Yep. I deliberately choose {{reflist}} without params when there are fewer than about ten references, unless all of them are short (by which I mean that none of them will wrap at the chosen column width, whether that be 20em, 25em or 30em). Have a look at this on an average-sized (1280 px wide) screen. I get four columns: ref 2 sits comfortably in column 4, but ref 1 is split over three columns - the first split is between 'for' and 'passengers', the second between 'Retrieved' and '31'. Not very good presentation at all, hence this edit --Redrose64 (talk) 09:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
As a first step towards fixing this annoying usability problem with fixed numbers of columns, the template should populate Category:Articles using obsolete parameters whenever one of these deprecated parameters is used. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 17:54, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Columns in Firefox[edit]

Hi, there appears to be some problem in Firefox 45.0.2 with the {{reflist|30em}} not giving multilple columns. The previous, but now deprecate, usage {{reflist|2}} is OK and produces columns. Any ideas what the problem is? Keith D (talk) 18:21, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Works fine for me, with and without explictly stating |colwidth=. Got an example? Andy Dingley (talk) 18:28, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
I was looking at this revision with the old format that gives 2 columns. While the latest revision uses the new format and gives a single column. Keith D (talk) 19:15, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Looks fine to me now, 2 or 3 columns as I resize the window. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:22, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
I see the problem now it is the screen width, I was expecting that I would get same columns as previously. If I widen the window then I get 2 columns. Keith D (talk) 22:43, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Examples should have sufficient entries to actually show columnization[edit]

The examples currently don't include enough items to drive the rendering into multiple columns, so renderings that in principle should look different don't actually look different. This reduces their value as examples. I'm happy to add the additional items if nobody objects. --jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 07:21, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Go ahead. The documentation isn't proteced. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 08:00, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
After experimenting, the explicitly 2-column example is easy, but forcing the 30em example to wrap was difficult. Works for 20em as a demonstration, though. User:jmcgnh/sandbox/Template_Reflist --jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 08:07, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
The examples shown do not necessarily need to use the exact code; the examples are for illustration only. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 09:16, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
OK, I'll go with what I've got except I won't explicitly point out the 20em vs 30em, in the spirit of for illustration only. --jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 07:49, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Alright, Edokter, I see what you did there. Yes, it makes it all clearer, with less discrepancy. Thanks for letting me do something that others might find useful or illustrative. --jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 01:49, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Of course; this is Wikipedia. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 06:44, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Open Access template not showing up inside reflist[edit]

I added a newspaper.com clipping to a citation in Gerri Major, and included the Template:Open access template at the end, per the instructions at WP:Newspapers.com. The icon that should appear (File:Open Access logo PLoS white.svg) as a result doesn't appear; hardly surprising given that this is being parsed inside Reflist. Is there a way to make that icon appear at the end of a reference, or could a true/false switch be added to make the icon appear? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:34, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Shouldn't that have been place inside the <ref>...</ref> tags?
Trappist the monk (talk) 14:43, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
D'oh. Yes. Fixed. Thanks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:48, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

I have an idea for a change: Add the {{clear}} template at the top of the source code.[edit]

That way, an object (like an image) in the previous section of an article will not disrupt the columns. A small obstruction in just a small part of the top of the list will cause the entire reflist to get pushed to the side. I see no reason why this shouldn't be done. FabulousFerd (talk) 21:34, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Oh... now I see a problem. The ==References== heading won't follow this rule. So, it will stay in a position and the ref list will be much lower in case there is an obstruction. In some other wikipedias, the {{Reflist}} template automatically creates the ==References== heading, so in that case, it would work. Shame. FabulousFerd (talk) 21:38, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

  • Oppose {{Reflist}}} normally follows a == References == heading, and any CSS clear should happen on that element (i.e. before the heading), not after.
Also it's common that a {{Commons category}} will be used, and CSS floated, between the heading and the {{Reflist}} (if this is the last heading on the page, i.e. there is no == External links == section). The added clear would thus introduce unwanted whitespace. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:09, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose In the present state the relist will appear on the place where it is added. With the clear-option it will be pushed to the bottom (after all sidebars or picture), leaving ugly white spaces. The Banner talk 20:18, 25 July 2016 (UTC)