Template talk:Seventh-day Adventist Colleges and Universities in North America

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General Discussion[edit]

It seems odd to put the Mexican universities into this template, if only because the North American Division doesn't include Mexico. If we're going to use the geographical definition of North America as opposed to the Adventist administrative definition of North America, shouldn't we include the Caribbean Adventist universities? (NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC))

Independent institutions[edit]

I'm not convinced we should include independent institutions on the template. Where would you draw the line? There's lots of very small, independent places of training popping up. There's about 3 in Australia, I understand. These don't belong next to, say, Andrews University, Loma Linda University or Avondale College. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 02:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I have my doubts there as well. But it's really an all or nothing proposition--you can't have some independent institutions and not others. I'm used to the standard listing of NAD Universities: a list that wouldn't include Hartland, Ouachita Hills, Griggs, or the Mexican Universities (as mentioned above), and sometimes not even Florida Hospital College. (NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC))

I didn't realise others were also independent. Well maybe the standard list is the way to go. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 04:00, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
I've attempted to separate them into affiliated and unaffiliated institutions. If someone coud correct any mistakes I've made that'd be great. --TorriTorri(Talk to me!) 20:00, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Are you sure that Andrews and Loma Linda are NAD affiliated schools? I was under the impression that Andrews for sure, and Loma Linda as well are run under the General Conference. WikiManOne 23:14, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure at all actually; I organised the template geographically/off the top of my head. A quick look at the LLU website didn't yield anything either. If you can find a source, feel free to correct my mistakes. --TorriTorri(Talk to me!) 23:21, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
found it. Will create a new group accordingly. --TorriTorri(Talk to me!) 23:25, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Sorry to make things complicated, yet again, but are Kettering College and Florida Hospital College NAD? I was under the impression they would be run under the auspices of their respective hospitals which would put them under Union/Conference control. Nice work on the Andrews/Loma Linda grouping. :-) WikiManOne 00:29, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Well, if they are run by their respective conference, would they not be indirectly NAD affiliated? --TorriTorri(Talk to me!) 01:34, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Indirectly, everything is under the GC's auspices. WikiManOne 01:21, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Montemorelos is IAD, everything else is run through its respective conference. I've edited the template accordingly. --TorriTorri(Talk to me!) 05:55, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

After giving this some thought, I wonder if we should keep including Hartland and OHC. Reading their "about us" pages, they don't seem to be "SDA colleges" as much as "colleges run by SDAs". So where should we draw the line? How do we define a "Seventh-day Adventist college or university"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TorriTorri (talkcontribs)

I've removed the independent institutions. --TorriTorri(talk/contribs) 17:21, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I think if a College is run by Seventh-day Adventists with the intention of working with the Adventist church they should be counted as Adventist Colleges. Looking at Hartland, there really isn't much way you could NOT consider it an Adventist institution.. comments? WikiManOne 02:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I like the solution presently implemented on this template, in classying the universities under "General Conference", "independent" etc. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 02:19, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Is "affiliated" the right word to use?[edit]

Are the schools affiliated? Owned? Subsidized? --TorriTorri(Talk to me!) 23:29, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I would probably opt for the word "entities" NAD entities, General Conference entities, etc. WikiManOne 00:25, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Proposed change[edit]

I would like to propose that the category be reworked into the following sections, to make it more useful to those researching Adventist Colleges, based on the categories as maintained by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching

  • National Universities (Andrews)
  • Specialty schools (Loma Linda, Kettering, Florida Hospital)
  • Masters Universities (La Sierra, Walla Walla)
  • Regional colleges (Oakwood, SAU, PUC, Union, etc.)
  • Unaccredited colleges (Hartland, OUC, Weimar)
  • Historical (AUC)

Thoughts? If there are no objections, I will implement this change soon with any suggestions.. bW 21:01, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Source for these categories applying to these schools? --TorriTorri(talk/contribs) 11:09, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carnegie Foundation Institution lookup (other than the unaccredited schools). This is also the classification system used by the U.S. News and World Report in their rankings (which are much easier to navigate as well as the Washington Monthly. bW 15:30, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I've created an example with a few additional categories here, anyone want to take a look? I also would like to get a map maker to crop the top part of that map out... bW 20:05, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

While that looks good and all. I think it would be confusing to non-Adventist. They would think the other Universities like Southern Adventist University and Walla Walla University are not "National." I also don't appreciate the "Historic" category. Yes, AUC is the oldest, but it still is active and has students graduating from it with BA/S. This moves me to my next point. When one starts categorizing colleges into Masters and Bachelors you run the risk of incorrectly listing them (for example, SAU and UC do offer Masters programs). Also, when one adds a "Canadian" section, that also screws it all up. The average reader would get confused. They might think, "Is the Canadian one special? Does it not offer Masters or Bachelors programs?" I, personally, believe that we should list them colleges and universities how they relate to the Church. I mean, that is what this article is called first right? "Seventh-day Adventist..." If we list them how they relate to the church, affiliation according to the Seventh-day Adventist Yearbook, then that has lesser chance of confusing people, Adventist and non-Adventist alike. Your thoughts? Antwonw (talk) 00:16, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I was just thinking about it. Like I said, it looks good with the "speciality" categorizing. What you could do is make it so it's still GC, Union, Independent each with a subcategory. This is what I am referring to Template:Seventh-day Adventist Colleges and Universities in North America/new Antwonw (talk) 01:08, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Southern Adventist University is considered a college, not university, by the Carnegie foundation, I used their classifications (which is also the classifications that US News and Washington Monthly uses when they rank schools). Same for SWAU. I listed AUC as historical because they will cease to exist at the end of this school year (or has this school year already ended?). The only two classifications that I made up was the "Canadian" and "Unaccredited." Canadian because Carnegie foundation does not list schools outside the U.S., unaccredited because they don't list those types either. I guess I don't agree that it would be confusing to a non-Adventist. In fact, the classifications were made by one of the most influential secular foundations in education, there's nothing Adventist about them. I think simply listing them by affiliation is confusing. Why would Loma Linda, a specialty school, Andrews, a national university, Oakwood, a college be listed together while masters universities like Walla Walla and LSU are listed below? It isn't useful unless you care about Church governance, which I as an Adventist couldn't care less, I'm guessing most readers would be that way as well. bW 01:23, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm not trying to be a douche here but regardless of what Carnegie lists SAU as, it does offer Masters Degrees. I think that listing it otherwise would be false, again, even if Carnegie doesn't list it that way. But that's just my option since I attend there. Another thing, AUC is not ceasing to exist at the end of the school year. Yes, the school year is over already, but there they are continuing. The school is not closing down. One of my best friends goes there. What happened is they lost accreditation. So they had to connect with WAU. The process is still non-binding yet but they have an agreement with them to make AUC a satellite campus of WAU. This will still be a while and AUC might not officially become WAU for a year or more. So, in reality it's still non-historic. At this point, I could careless. I put my more than two cents into this article with the map and dots and other things I added. I don't care for this turn, but that's the beauty of Wikipedia, I can just move on to another article. Have fun. Antwonw (talk) 16:14, 7 June 2011 (UTC)