Template talk:Table cell templates

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Longlisted[edit]

I was wondering, since there is a template for "shortlisted", should there be one for "longlisted"? For example, in List of awards and nominations received by EastEnders, taking the National Television Awards as an example, a longlist is released, then the public votes and there's a shortlist. I'm currently using "nominated" for those that don't make the shortlist, but I think if there was a "longlisted" option, it would mean less confusion as to what everything actually means. –anemoneprojectors– 09:57, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

I decided instead to use the {{TBA}} template adding "Longlisted" as the text. I still think it would be a useful template though. –anemoneprojectors– 16:20, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Since {{TBA}} was changed to make the text size smaller, I created {{Longlisted}}. Feel free to change the colour if there's a more appropriate one. AnemoneProjectors 09:00, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Less busy-looking templates[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Format the {{Dunno}} and {{Unknown}} table-cell templates with smaller gray text (Proposal #2), as is done for {{N/a}}. Discuss a possible merger between any two of these three templates separately (as the formatting side of this discussion should be closed before it is implemented), and leave that discussion open for a couple weeks. – voidxor (talk | contrib) 20:16, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Current look ? Unknown
Proposal #1 ? Unknown
Proposal #2 ? Unknown

In the last few days Voidxor and I have discussed how {{Dunno}} and {{Unknown}} templates could be made less busy-looking so they produce less distraction when used in more than just a few table cells. A good example of how distractible they can be is available in Nested RAID levels § Comparison, and here are the proposals resulting from our discussion:

  • Proposal #1: gray labels in {{Dunno}} and {{Unknown}}
  • Proposal #2: gray labels in {{Dunno}} and {{Unknown}}, made even less busy-looking with <small>...</small>

That way, gray labels would represent "fill me in" cells while black labels should be reserved for the templates producing definitive answers (such as {{Yes}} and {{No}}) that aren't to be filled in later.

Furthermore, {{Dunno}} and {{Unknown}} templates might be merged as they represent pretty much the same thing so having two templates introduces a redundancy. However, having two templates that produce "fill me in" cells with labels of completely different widths might actually be good so the narrow one can be used where the space is tight, and the wide (and more descriptive) one where the space isn't an issue.

Let's discuss, please. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 07:56, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Support proposal #2 per our previous discussion. I'm tentatively supporting the merge proposal as well, unless somebody can explain why two different templates were warranted in the first place. The difference in text width can be solved by going with the question mark rather than the word "Unknown"; not only would that work in narrow cells, but it would be less busy in wide cells. – voidxor (talk | contrib) 20:58, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
    Any further opinions, please? Does anybody else care about the whole thing? — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 05:20, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
    I invited Howard the Duck, Richmond96, Crissov, AnemoneProjectors, and Dravidianhero to participate, but that was I month ago. I dare say that we're the only two who are passionate about this, so perhaps we can proceed with your proposal #2, as well as the merger if so inclined. – voidxor (talk | contrib) 21:47, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
    You seem to be right, and the silence may also indicate no objections. :) Perhaps we should go with the proposal #2 now and with the merger a few days later, so we space it out a bit allowing other people to see the actual changes and potentially comment here? — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 22:17, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Support proposal #1 or #2: I thought the difference was that {{Dunno}}’s question mark indicated info to be filled in later, whereas {{Unknown}} was for info that is not and cannot be known (i.e. more like {{n/a}}), but I assume they’re more likely to be chosen by horizontal space constraints. Otherwise I’m fine with the proposed color semantics, although the red from links would be an option, too.
    Styling like smaller font size should be done with CSS, so no <small> please. — Christoph Päper 22:48, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
    Hello! Using <small>...</small> was proposed because that's how {{n/a}} template does it, so we should probably take that route to ensure consistency between different templates. Another option would be to modify {{n/a}} as well so it uses CSS styling. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 23:22, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
    Christoph is right about <small> being deprecated HTML formatting syntax; we should definitely use CSS instead. – voidxor (talk | contrib) 00:45, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
    That's fine with me. So, we should use <span style="font-size: 90%">...</span> instead, right? — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 00:54, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
    I just proposed <span style="font-size: small;">...</span> over at Template talk:N/a#Protected edit request on 15 July 2015. That's probably a more direct replacement for the small element than 90%. – voidxor (talk | contrib) 01:11, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
    You can style the table cell directly in this case. — Christoph Päper 05:12, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
    It seems that we may proceed with putting <span style="font-size: smaller;">...</span> into {{Dunno}} and {{Unknown}} templates. Christoph, I'm a bit confused about the table cell styling you've mentioned; any chances, please, for clarifying that a bit further? — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 09:09, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
    I think he means alter individual table cells on articles like <span style="font-size: smaller;">{{Unknown}}</span>, instead of changing the font size for the template as a whole. Personally, I'd regard that as a workaround, and am more inclined to modify the templates consistently across all articles, but that's just my two cents. – voidxor (talk | contrib) 19:22, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
    No! I mean don’t use a span element when you can put font-size:small into an existing style attribute, i.e. the one for the table cell setting background color etc. — Christoph Päper 22:11, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
    Ah. Good point. There's already a Wikitable |style= parameter in these templates. So now that we have input from presumably all interested parties, what have we decided to do? Gray text? Smaller text size? Merge? – voidxor (talk | contrib) 22:24, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
    Ah, now I see, thanks, that's a very good point about the CSS styling. We should do the same to the {{n/a}} template in which the <span> element is pretty much redundant; Voidxor, would you prefer to create another protected template edit request on {{n/a}}, just because you've already created one? Speaking of the next steps on {{Dunno}} and {{Unknown}} templates, IMHO we should go with font-size: small; CSS styling and gray text for now (proposal #2), and leave it so for a week or two before deciding on the merger. That way, more people will be able to see this whole discussion, which should be a good thing before the merger. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 03:28, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
     Done, see Template talk:N/a#Template-protected edit request on 16 July 2015. Don't forget that we'd be using smaller rather than small, though. – voidxor (talk | contrib) 20:05, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Support proposal #1 or #2 and merger: For what it's worth, I would support either proposal #1 or #2, whichever others prefer! I think a merger would make sense, though. –anemoneprojectors– 09:46, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Merge missing-data templates[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Merge templates by having {{Dunno}} transclude {{Unknown}}. Keep the text gray per previous discussion. Add a parameter to switch to short labels (i.e. "?" versus the full-text "Unknown"), and have {{Dunno}} use said parameter in order to maintain existing short labels in tables pressed for space. – voidxor 21:09, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

{{Dunno}} and {{Unknown}} templates might be merged as they represent pretty much the same thing so having two templates introduces a redundancy. However, having two templates that produce "fill me in" cells with labels of completely different widths might actually be good so the narrow one can be used where the space is tight, and the wide (and more descriptive) one where the space isn't an issue.

Let's discuss, please. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 07:56, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Let me mention Howard the Duck, Richmond96, Crissov, AnemoneProjectors, and Dravidianhero again in order to invite them here to comment. All are welcome, though. – voidxor (talk | contrib) 00:21, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Merge by redirecting {{Dunno}} to {{Unknown}}, and making {{Unknown}} the question mark. I believe a small gray question mark should be intuitive enough to convey that the article needs the help of anybody with the missing information—similar to red links or the {{Expand section}} maintenance tag. I'd be fine with a small red question mark too, as proposed by Christoph above. By going with the question mark instead of the word "Unknown" in the merged template, you avoid tight-space versus wide-space headaches. Also, note that both templates belong to the table-unknown CSS class, whereas {{N/a}} and {{BLACK}} both belong the the table-na class. Thus, I think {{N/a}} is more geared toward cases where the information can never be known (see also, n/a). – voidxor (talk | contrib) 21:13, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Merge: I couldn't agree more that having both {{Dunno}} and {{Unknown}} is quite confusing. We should have one template (which should be {{Unknown}}) for the cells that are to be filled in by someone at some point in time, and the other template (which is {{n/a}}) for the cells that aren't applicable and shouldn't ever be filled in. Another option for the {{Dunno}} → {{Unknown}} merger might be to introduce a template parameter to the destination template that would allow a selection between the long and short labels ("?" vs. "Unknown"). Oh, and I'm more geared toward gray letters. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 01:18, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
    Adding a template parameter is a great idea! Aside from allowing both long and short text labels, that merges the two into one template that avoids confusion and enforces formatting consistency between the two. If {{Dunno}} and {{Unknown}} were created for different size cells, why do their background colors differ?! It makes no sense. A shorter version of a template should only vary by the text label, not the color scheme nor font size. – voidxor (talk | contrib) 03:19, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
    Thanks. Right, the difference in background color is even more confusing. Furthermore, I'm not sure is it possible to know in a template how it has been transcluded, directly or through a redirect? If knowing that is possible, we could even implement automatic selection between the short and long label in {{Unknown}}, depending on the way it's transcluded; as a result, we'd have zero disturbance to already existing tables, in case one of the templates has been selected specifically for its label length. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 04:56, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
    Again, another great idea! The way we'd accomplish that is to set the contents of Template:Dunno to {{Unknown|small=yes}}, instead of doing a redirect. – voidxor (talk | contrib) 20:31, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
    Thanks again. :) That would be a really nice and simple implementation, avoiding the Wiki-fu that the in-template redirect detection code would probably look like (if something like that is possible at all). — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 21:02, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Merge: I think a merger would make sense. –anemoneprojectors– 09:46, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment: It makes sense to have just two templates for the two separate meanings: ‘I don’t know’ ({{dunno}} or {{unknown}}) and ‘cannot be known’ ({{n/a}} or {{unknown}}). How they’re merged, I don‘t care much since I’ve rarely needed to use these templates myself. The narrow vs. wide distinction may be useful, I guess – explicitly entering parameters to make something smaller when rendered is not helpful at least. I’m worried, though, about existing transclusions which won’t all match the future semantics. — Christoph Päper 07:37, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
    Are you thinking of any specific articles where {{Unknown}} is used in a "cannot be known" capacity? Perhaps we should spot check the transclusions list. – voidxor 17:44, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Documentation missing[edit]

This template is not documented in Template:Table cell templates/doc. 80.221.159.67 (talk) 15:54, 31 August 2016 (UTC)