Template talk:Sonic

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Project Needlemouse[edit]

I added the latest revealed Sonic game, Project Needlemouse, to the template. I have placed it under main series, however I can't confirm whether it matches the criteria mentioned in the documentation. It has not been recognized as a successful main series game (due to lack of information), not a handheld game and most likely a console game since it will be 2D HD gameplay, Sonic features as main character. (talk) 21:57, 9 September 2009 (GMT)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 February 2015[edit]

Sonic 3D Blast is not main series (talk) 00:22, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I agree, but for better or for worse, the maintainers of this template have determined that main series = has Sonic as the/a main playable character, is a platformer of some kind, and isn't otherwise designated as a spinoff by official materials or reliable sources. I think it'd be most logical to rely on gameplay alone (e.g. Knuckles' Chaotix and Shadow the Hedgehog main series; Sonic 3D Blast not) or Sega's official positions, such as what made it into Generations (e.g. CD, 3D Blast, and Sonic 4 not main series), but we'd need a much more significant vote than just on one game to effect an organization scheme like that. Tezero (talk) 01:22, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
That scheme doesn't make any sense. Blast, while isometric, is still a platformer with an emphasis on item collection, like so much of the rest of the main series. Sergecross73 msg me 01:42, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Not that this discussion is relevant, but the isometric makes a huge difference: besides no other isometric games currently being considered main-series, there's much less emphasis on speed and actual platforming in favor of running around on a mostly flat plane with some steps. Heck, actual platforming in isometric wouldn't be fun since you're always falling all over the place - painful memories of Spyro: Season of Flame are seeping back as we speak. And item collection isn't the norm in what currently is classified as the main series anyway - I can only think of the Chaotix's missions in Heroes - yet it's basically the entire game here. Tezero (talk) 02:30, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
You're thinking of things in a very limited manner. Every mainline involves ring collection. Many involve emerald collection or emblem collection. The Adventure games involve collecting items for Chao development. Blast does these things too, on the form of rings, emeralds, and little birds. The differences are splitting hairs. Sergecross73 msg me 03:01, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
As limited as "to beat the game" is. You can beat any of the games without collecting a single Emerald, Chao item, or technically even ring (but rings are ridiculously common anyway, like coins in Mario and maybe moreso than rupees in Zelda), not counting Generations where the Emeralds are automatically granted after boss fights. I actually haven't played Blast, but if collecting birds is actually as integral to the gameplay as it is in 3D Blast, then in my understanding, that's a strike against Blast being main-series. Tezero (talk) 04:21, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
I was referring to Sonic 3D Blast the whole time, I just didn't want to write that out when I was writing from my phone yesterday. Anyways, this is exactly what I'm talking about though - it's splitting hairs. Are you really proposing "If its mandatory item collection, its spinoff, if its not mandatory, main line?". (Not to mention that doesn't work, you need to collect emblems to advance in games like Adventure or Unleashed. Sergecross73 msg me 13:46, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Uh, yeah, that is what I'm proposing, because it's not just a meaningless detail, but the core of the gameplay - collecting Flickies isn't a nice trinket, but the very identity of what you're doing, with all else being means to that end. To be honest, describing 3D Blast as main-series and Knuckles' Chaotix and Shadow as spinoffs, barring reliable sources (which you haven't brought up here, so I assume it's okay to skirt for the sake of argument), because they star Sonic while completely ignoring their gameplay is like calling arctic foxes marshmallows because they're white. But it's not just item collecting; as I stated before, the isometric perspective makes a huge difference - aesthetics, controls, game mechanics, and level design all have to undergo major changes to make that work. Oh, and the examples don't hold up, either; emblems aren't required in Adventure (they have more of a presence in the second one, but even there are optional unless you're trying for Green Hill Zone); with Unleashed I can see where you're coming from, but it's not collecting items so much as just completing goals, with emblems being baubles of your efforts. Tezero (talk) 14:59, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Don't you receive an emblem for finishing a level in the Adventure games? Aren't finishing levels essential to beat the game? Thus, I felt emblems were required. Not that it matters, I don't believe that's good or consistent criteria anyways. This is why no new criteria ever gain any support though - they're either arbitrary with tons of exceptions, or extremely subjective and opinion-based. As far as sources go, I've done searches in the past, and no reliable sources called it a spinoff, it was always just random blogs or random fans on messageboards calling in "spinoff". And with your other examples, I still stand by the stance that a game that has neither the title character, nor title character's naming convention, can't be considered a main entry to a series. That's like calling Captain Toad a mainline Super Mario title. Sergecross73 msg me 15:30, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
I would consider Captain Toad a mainline Mario game, as well as New Super Luigi Bros. U (and no one contests Donkey Kong), but to each his own. I do have to admit that gameplay style is less objective than whether someone is the/a main playable character. And I'm well aware that reliable sources are not backing me up here, but you argued beyond them, so I obliged. I suggest we drop this. Tezero (talk) 15:45, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
See past discussions. There is no consensus to change it to spinoff status. Sergecross73 msg me 01:40, 9 February 2015 (UTC)