Wikipedia talk:Templates for discussion

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XFD backlog
V Dec Jan Feb Mar Total
CfD 0 0 0 27 27
TfD 0 0 0 12 12
MfD 0 0 1 1 2
FfD 0 0 0 1 1
RfD 0 0 0 55 55
AfD 0 0 0 2 2

Substituting a template before taking it to TfD[edit]

Hi! User:Timeshifter and I are currently debating whether it is permissible to substitute a template en masse (e.g. by adding {{always subst|auto=yes}}) when you plan on taking it to TfD immediately afterwards, in the interest of saving time. We tend to disagree on a lot (in my opinion, collegially), so rather than argue back and forth I figured I would just ask for some outside perspectives on this issue. Best, HouseBlastertalk 14:47, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely not. That is gaming the system, giving yourselves an excuse to claim "this template should be deleted because it is not in use". --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 15:35, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We had already agreed that further uses of these subtemplates would only occur via auto-substitution. So there was no gaming. And these subtemplates are breaking stuff in some cases when not substituted. So we could have auto-substituted before any TfDs. Houseblaster rushed to TfD without agreement. The other participant in the discussion wanted to auto-substitute first also. It also gives us time to change our minds on the subtemplates if we decide to keep any of them, but only after rewriting them. It would not be wise to rewrite them until the auto-substitution is done. This way we can do more tests before undeprecating any rewritten ones.--Timeshifter (talk) 00:25, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My argument is that there is a fundamental difference between deciding to convert a template to subst-only and keeping it versus convert a template to subst-only and deleting it. I agree that if they are to be used further they should be substituted. At the talk page of the template, we can debate whether it should be substituted or not, but we can't debate whether we should delete it. To resolve which of those two paths to take—either subst-and-keep or subst-and-delete—we go to TfD before substituting it so people can get an accurate picture of where it is used. I brought the two templates I did to a discussion—namely, "templates for discussion"— D because I believed they should be merged/deleted, and wanted to discuss that point. We should not waste time on a discussion about having a discussion to delete a template. HouseBlastertalk 00:50, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We can debate on the overall template talk page which subtemplates should be revised, substituted, deprecated, redirected, deleted, etc.. Discussion can happen anywhere. If we decide on the talk page to delete, then we have to go to TfD to actually get it done. You are misinterpreting WP:LOCALCON. --Timeshifter (talk) 02:00, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What I am trying to say is we could decide to delete the template at the talk page, but we would have to go to TfD anyways to get wider opinions before deletion. TfDs can be closed as keep or delete, but keep but make subst-only would be a valid outcome, too. I don't see having a discussion, deciding we should delete the template, just so we can have another discussion at TfD about potentially deleting the template to be a good use of anyone's time. HouseBlastertalk 02:49, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We are talking subtemplates, not templates. Nobody knows the arcane nature of their interaction better than the 3 of us currently discussing them at Template talk:Static row numbers#All subtemplates should be deprecated or auto-substituted and the following sections. And at the subtemplate talk pages before that. And one of the templates you put up for discussion can be redirected. No TfD needed for that. No TfD needed if we decide to auto-substitute and then keep a template. You should not be putting up subtemplates at TfD until the 3 of us agree that is the next step. Once we agree, there is little reason others will disagree at TfD. Because we three are currently the most knowledgeable about the intricacies of their interactions with each other and other parts of tables. So actually we save time by agreeing among the 3 of us first. --Timeshifter (talk) 03:07, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
sigh. The question asked here is not the situation that is occurring. Making a not-subst template subst-only and then sending it to TFD is not kosher. However, discussing subtemplates as they relate to the master is a perfectly acceptable talk page matter, since the subtemplates are all directly related to the main template. If no decision can be made, then it should go to TFD for further discussion. If the discussion is to delete the subtemplates, then they can just be blanked, marked historical, redirected to the main template, or (depending on the number of participants and strength of consensus) potentially deleted as a housekeeping measure. Primefac (talk) 18:55, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village Pump (proposals) § Bump XfD heading sizes about potentially increasing the header size of XfD discussions. Primefac (talk) 06:57, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Scope[edit]

Can this page be used to discuss matters relating to a template, other than deletion or merging? For example, the use of the parameters of a template, if agreement cannot be reached on the template talk page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Despite the name of the page, not really; it's only "for discussion" because template mergers were not deletions (according to this RM). Every once in a while someone tries to go the route of "it says discussion so let's discuss this template" but often ends up getting more backlash purely for the action than any useful feedback. If agreement can't be reached on a talk page, then I would traverse the various levels of WikiProject before maybe hitting up VPT (cross-posting to the original discussion to avoid decentralised debate, of course...). Primefac (talk) 14:54, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Working/Manual § Other. Specifically, please see entry on the list entitled Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 March 13#Category:Harold B. Lee Library-related film articles. (I am leaving this note here because it involves templates and XfD.) Thanks! HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 18:58, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]