Template talk:Yoga

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Major Changes required[edit]

There are basically three levels of respectable hierarchies of Yoga
MAJOR Yoga founded out by ancient Indian seers, whose credit doesn’t goes to a single person or group. Eg. Bhakti Yoga, Hatha Yoga, Kundalini Yoga
MEDIUM Yoga founded by alive (or recently expired) gurus and the practices are very much well established throughout the world. Eg. Art of Living, Siddha Yoga
MINOR Yoga founded by single persons and used as a marketing phenomenon. Eg. Bikram Yoga, Dream Yoga, Sivananda Yoga. We cannot possible keep Agni yoga (invented by a couple) besides Siddha Yoga (introduced by a spiritual leader). A proper representation of the facts shall be reflected. So people are requested to split off the Other Yogas category into something more accurate.

I just watched the trailer of Enlighten Up. In that documentary, one Yoga teacher of America mentioned that the number of variants of Yoga in US, as there are different flavors of Baskin Robbins Icecream. This holds true, since I have been seeing a lot of different and minor yoga styles in Wikipedia and the web. Since all cannot be accomodated in the template, the minor yoga list has been removed. Bhuto (Talk | Contribs) 06:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Agree. This template is somewhat skewed: It lists some of the major overarching themes of yoga at the start of each of its sections, and then digresses quite a bit. As for styles, there are certain styles that are nationally recognized in the U.S. by Yoga Alliance, an organization that certifies yoga teachers, and also by Yoga Journal, a publication/organization that provides insurance to teachers. The authority of these organizations is sufficient to warrant which styles are listed on the template and which are not. Morganfitzp (talk) 19:33, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
To date, these yoga schools/styles include: Amrit, Anusara, Ashtanga, Bikram, Forrest, Hatha, Hot Yoga, Iyengar, Jivamukti, Kripalu, Kundalini, Power Yoga, Satya, Viniyoga and Vinyasa. Morganfitzp (talk) 23:12, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Discussion regarding Name of Template[edit]

"Topics in Yoga" to "Yoga" as templates generally named "X" and not "Topics in/related to X".--Redtigerxyz (talk) 14:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't find the change very useful. Topics was more informative and provided a direct link to a category page, containing a directory of related references. The Yoga article is not that useful as a gateway to miscellaneous related subjects (as the Category is). I suggest the title should be changed back or otherwise improved. NazarK (talk) 18:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
On a second thought, it can actually be named "Yoga", but refer to the category, rather than the Yoga article. I'm changing it that way. Hope you like it. NazarK (talk) 19:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
The title YOGA is much more appropriate. Thank you Redtigerxyz & NazarK bhuto 08:41, 29 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Debnathsandeep (talkcontribs)

Added modern styles and schools that appear on Wikipedia and are recognized by Yoga Alliance[edit]

This template can have a lot more in it to facilitate access and understanding of both classical and modern yoga. I've added this section containing some styles and schools of yoga that are well-known throughout the world, and yes, there are many more. They may not have been around as long as Patanjali's Sutras, but they are part of yoga as we know it and part of yoga on Wikipedia.

Some questions arise given the overlap of certain terms currently on the template: Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga is a contemporary school established in the 20th century in Mysore, though its name makes reference to Patanjali's "Ashtanga" (eight limbs), it is different. Kundalini,likewise, as a concept is quite old, yet Kundalini Yoga as practiced today, is also something that dates back less than 100 years. They all exist in the world and on Wikipedia, and all belong on this template. Let's work together as a community of Wikipedians (and yogis) to make this template a useful resource to all who seek knowledge on this subject. Morganfitzp (talk) 20:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Ram Das[edit]

I'd added Ram Das, and his book Be Here Now as a subsection, to the Modern pioneers section. It was reverted. Ram Das seems to be the main individual to introduce yoga to the 1960s and 1970s generations in the West (and into the '80s and far beyond). His influence on the spiritual direction of thinking of that era, and his explanations of yoga and what it meant to the individual and to society, were unequaled. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:47, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

I suspect we are tangled here in the [classical] yoga vs "modern yoga" question. I removed him from the Modern [postural] yoga section because I haven't seen any evidence that he helped to pioneer or innovate asana yoga - happy to be proven wrong, as always. He is a well-known figure in spiritual yoga, but for that we'd need a different section of the template, a perfectly possible move. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:01, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
You just put 'with asanas' into the section head for 'Modern yoga', which you have created as an equivalent to Hatha yoga, which already has a complete section. You've also redefined Asana as being both Hatha and Modern yoga along the lines of Mark Singleton (yoga teacher), a teacher who've you've centered around in the section and linked to as 'yoga body'. There seems to be an effort to redefine hatha yoga on the template into 'Modern yoga'. I've removed 'asanas' from the section head (asanas already listed on the template) as the open-ended term "modern yoga" should cover everything about yoga and not just one form. You've made lots of quick and mostly good changes throughout the topic on Wikipedia, which is redefining the Wikipedia topics, but now you define your changes as defining the template. Yoga is not just asana or Hatha yoga, although many people think it is. "Modern" should mean the spread of yoga into the West, and that would include Ram Das and his large influence. There is probably a way to solve this and keep all your good work on yoga topics, including what you call "spiritual" yoga, which is far from just 'spiritiual' in nature and practice (conscious control of physical emotions, thoughts, memory, removal of imbedded trauma-induced decision patterns, etc.) and muscle-system control as defined by hatha yoga is just a part of this. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:57, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Many thanks for explaining your point of view, and for your polite approval of my work, which has of course taken hundreds of hours and a lot of books: it's very nice to be appreciated occasionally. Yoga as understood in south Asia and by scholars is one thing, a huge subject and in the West a very misunderstood one. However, modern yoga is overwhelmingly about asanas, and is overwhelmingly seen that way by the public, the media, and by scholars; further, modern-asana-yoga is overwhelmingly seen by the public and others as virtually synonymous with "yoga", i.e. there is a major gap between how things were seen in earlier centuries and to some extent are still seen in south Asia, and how things are seen in the Western world; there is plentiful evidence for these claims. I suggest we go with the flow on that matter; and I added "with asanas" just to be clear what was meant, since it appeared to be causing an issue: I might add an invisible note to that effect to assist editors, which was (I realise) my main intention.
(By the way, all the qualified terms like "modern yoga" and "modern postural yoga" have an unhelpfully academic ring; the term used by the public and the media is simply "yoga", ignoring all the non-asana-focused kinds, and incidentally ignoring medieval-style hatha yoga, which never consisted mainly of asanas. The situation isn't helped by the use of the term "hatha yoga" (with no diacritics, the "th" pronounced as in 'thin') for non-branded asana yoga; it hasn't much to do with the medieval kind either.)
I suggest further that yoga-not-specially-focused-on-asanas be treated somewhere else, such as in the 'Other' section. How many sections and subsections we have is to some extent a function of how many items of each kind we need to cover. I am afraid there is also quite a large disconnect between the expectations created in the readership by our placing the word "Yoga" at the top of an article or template, and what we then talk about: people arrive, in a word, expecting coverage of asana-yoga (and possibly its history), and get something entirely different. We need to manage that disconnect as gracefully as we can. Hope this helps. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:39, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Agreed with much of what you said, that the history of yoga has been lost to the western topic: "hatha yoga equals yoga" (you've also added 'Modern yoga' to the 'Asana' page as a redefining of 'Hatha yoga'). But a Wikipedia template must cover the entire subject in a clear manner, and this map of the topic includes all yoga and not just hatha yoga (which you and others seems to redefine as 'yoga'). Ernest Wood seems prominent in your edits, and should be on the template somewhere (I've included the template on his page). Modern pioneers (maybe a name for a new section?) should cover all aspects of yoga and not just hatha. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:48, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Good, we're evidently converging somewhere. I've never equated 'modern yoga' and 'hatha yoga', however, see the modern yoga article for a list of the differences. It's fine to have pioneers-subsection-of-modern-asana-yoga and pioneers-of-other-stuff, we can have more sections. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:24, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Still not buying the 'Modern yoga' thing, it is just Hatha yoga modified to sell. To devote so much of the template to it seems excessive, and if there is no room on the template for Ram Das and his book then something needs correcting. Not to negate your good work on this, just doesn't seem done yet and some tweaks needed. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:45, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for speaking your mind; I wonder if you've seen the table of differences in Modern yoga.
On the "Hatha yoga modified to sell", the case is rather different: it's Hatha yoga minus all its goals (raising kundalini, samadhi, moksha), minus most of its instruments (shatkarmas, bandhas, mudras, most of pranayama), minus all its tradition of guru-shishya and secrecy, plus an unprecedented emphasis on asanas, plus a wholly new aerobic approach with vinyasas and Surya Namaskar and new standing asanas; plus modern life, yoga mats, classes, holidays, yoga brands, commerce and the rest. In short, it's totally transformed inside and out. It's also what "Yoga" means to the great majority of the world's population, who wouldn't know a mudra from a mantelpiece.
Ram Das does not fit into that specific context in any way, which is not to say he may not fit into some other yoga context, but asanas and yoga pants definitely weren't his thing.

On the size of the template, there is certainly sufficient material for a separate Modern yoga template, in which case we can drop back to a slim section in this one. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:22, 25 March 2019 (UTC)