User:Adam Carr/Talk Archive9

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Maps of France & Italy: Sorry, I didn't see the message about France. I am building List of Members of the European Parliament 2004-2009 which references the regions (along with those already mapped for European Parliament Election, 2004 (Ireland), and the pre-established States of Germany the Regions of England and the Voivodships of Poland). It seemed logical to put them on the elections page as was done for Ireland. I hope to add lists of candidates elected to each country, but this will take a few days. Possibly longer in Italy which is a mess due to candidates getting elected in multiple regions and only taking up one. Or even none!

Hope this is OK. --Keith Edkins 17:00, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Adam, this isn't your article. I know you put hard work, but everyone else is entitled to make the edits they feel they have to, as long as the edits help. Instead of just labeling my edit "dopey", make a case on why the section should be called "Modern Middle East". WhisperToMe 05:04, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Okay, I'll admit to screwing up in the German map thingie. But you could have been more respectful with that matter ;) Nor is it relevant.

You are acting like it's your article. As if it is forbidden and that I can't touch it. Instead of mentioning these past incidents and trying to color me as an uber-stupid user, why not just tell me why it's not good. You are beating around the bush. You are telling me irrelevant stuff about past disputes and not about the current issue. The current issue is the naming of the section. And for that matter, you have not studied my edit history at all.

Quit focusing on the past and get tell me why my current edit is so lame. If you say its lame because I'm the one who did made the edit and that you didn't even look at the edit, then I am going to tell you to please stop. WhisperToMe 05:54, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

You are still not focusing on the edit; you are focusing on me. Stop focusing on me. I'm none of your business here. Don't focus on the person. Focus on the edit.

But I got a 2nd opinion from someone on IRC, and he says that "Modern Middle East" is a bit ambiguous and I've decided that I'll stop on that issue now. :) WhisperToMe 06:25, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

WhisperToMe 06:25, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi - I'd like to use some of your photos in other Wikipedia languages. Can you confirm whether they are available under the GFDL? Thanks. Ianb 18:59, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

specifically these: [Image:Ac.acropolis.jpg], [Image:Ac.omonia.jpg], and while I'm at ti [Image:Ac.charioteer3.jpg]. Ianb 06:21, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi, I noticed your stance in the talk page on Poland's betrayal by the Western Allies and wanted to let you know that I have reopened the issue at VfD and wish for you to please cast your vote at VfD--naryathegreat 23:43, Jul 6, 2004 (UTC)

I've checked out Krusty's "sources" on the "land-bridge". Check this out: Talk:Eurasian Land-Bridge AndyL 15:21, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi Adam, unfortunately the File:Ac.barrier.jpg you uploaded does not work, so I deleted it from the article. Hope you can fix that. Get-back-world-respect 19:17, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Adam, you are so predicatable. I was thinking "will Adam take 5 mins or 15 mins to make his usual reply?"; thanks for not disappointing me. Btw, don't threaten things, it is beneath you. Especially don't threaten to violate Wikipedia procedures. --Zero 04:53, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Adam, don't let Zero bully you. He's just anrgy that you won't let him remove huge chunks of the articles without offering something NPOV, or at least attemtping to be so, in its place. RK

LaRouche arbitration?

Were you aware that we are now in arbitration re:LaRouche? See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche john k 08:51, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

License Hi, could you give the license of Image:Ac.athensarms.jpg ? We use it on french wp so we hope it is GFDL or DP ... Thanks in advance for the answer. Tipiac 10:49, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

We use it on fr: on fr:Image:Ac.athensarms.jpg

About Simonides and straw-man arguments against Jews

I am becoming very concerned about the behaviour of Simonides; he has already declared himself an enemy of "Zionist" contributions to Wikipedia, (although he has little idea of what this word really means; he uses this word as slur word.) Simonides's distortion of the content of the anti-Zionism article (and others), and his distortion of the views of Jewish groups, are straw-man attacks. As you know, no mainstream Jewish denomination, organization or group has ever claimed that a criticism of an Israeli policy or government is anti-Semitism; no on here on Wikipedia here is saying that either. Simonides' repeated claims to the contrary are Jew-baiting strawman attacks. They are not only factually false (and thus have no place in an encyclopedia), but will only serve to encourage open anti-Semitism. This isn't about a disagreement on how to phrase facts; this is about his manufactoring of false "facts" in order to hurt others whom he disagrees with. This behaviour is out of line, and if he continues, we may need to bring this up on the Wiki-En list. RK 13:41, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)

It might sound pompous and anachronistic to put the full titles - and so it is - but that does not change either the history or the facts. You cannot merely present half the detail because it sounds pretty and looks nice. --JohnArmagh 16:19, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

In reply:-

On the Wikipedia edit page it does say that "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it."

I notice that today I have a banner asking me to consider donating to the Wikipedia - I was considering it, but there is little point if no-one likes what I write.

However, that said:-

Of course you are correct re the style of the monarch etc., and I would have corrected my errors shortly. However as you are so against the very style you may revert if you wish, however would you allow me to have my pompous and anachronistic page elsewhere on the Wikipedia?

I do think that it is of certain interest to see how the styles develop over time, and there may (hopefully) come a day when Australia and Great Britain (my two nationalities) have a republican constitution, and then the styles and titles will change completely.

regards --JohnArmagh 17:15, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Notwithstanding my comments above - I have reverted the article for you back to how it was before I edited it. --JohnArmagh 17:27, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hello sir, I have seen you are aware of Avala, well, he and his Serb nationalist friends have been major problem makers for quite some time now, you can see some of it on my talk page. I agree about the ban. --GeneralPatton 22:48, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi Adam,

Thanks for your reply.

I do appreciate your (and others) stance on this. And I also very much welcome any information which assists in accuracy of the information and correcting errors.

Although it may appear from my pedantry that I am a proponent of the peerage system the contrary is the case. I would like to be able to demonstrate how the 'dignities of office' have been changing through history and from country to country and conforming to the acceptance of the conteporary 'society', and a historical list of officials seemed to be the ideal place. Because I have close links with Australia, and because Australia is growing away from the legacy of the archaic 'British' system it seemed ideal to demonstrate this initially with that country.

I do agree that most of those looking for a list of GGs etc. would expect to see a plain list of names and dates - but the thing which has got me is that when I am looking for the extra detail I can never find it, which is why I thought this the ideal opportunity to compile it in case there is anyone else in the world like me.

best regards Adam - hope to speak again soon --JohnArmagh 08:58, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I am not User:Dear Leader. BTW my edits are not idiotic if they difer from your point of view. If you want to ban me you will have to say:He edited that page in the way i don`t like it.

You can check IPs if you want but next time you call me an idiot I will report you.

[[User:Avala|Avala|]] 12:15, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi Adam. You uploaded Image:Ac.yudhoyono1.gif. Did you convert this to GIF yourself? Do you have an original version of a better quality? — In general, it would be nice if you could use image description pages more: Describe both what the image depicts, and where you got it from. Thanks! :) Timwi 12:17, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Avala, along with his buddies User:Nikola Smolenski and User:Igor, has been inserting his Serb nationalist nonsense all over the place, although Avala is the least cunning of the bunch. Only way of reporting him as far as i know is listing him on Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress. They deny they have an agenda, and often counter-report if you report them, but their revision histories tell a different story. It’s a tough fight with the extremists. I know people have nominated you for an Admin, and I really think you should accept because of cases like this. --GeneralPatton 17:49, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Adam, are you of Greek descent? There is a mess over at Epirus and thought that perhaps you might have enough knowledge and perhaps be able to keep it neutral at the same time. I am Albanian, but I don't know that much about the modern Greek periphery. I have tried to tone it down and give the Albanian perspective, but both Greek and Albanian editors are making a mess of it. Dori | Talk 02:23, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)

Hi Adam - Thanks for starting up my User page for me :)

I promised myself I'd get round to it - I suppose I need to get on with it now.

btw The picture is of the Church of Ireland cathedral, which is a nice enough building - except that I am R.C.

I'll keep the pic there anyway!

best wishes --JohnArmagh 09:54, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Re: Lafosse:-

Being someone who never believes anything just because it is in print, I suspected that was the case, however in the absence of anyone else claiming Stewart descent (and I believe there is a claimant in Sardinia) then I'll have him. Plus, like me, he looks OK in a kilt :)

--JohnArmagh 12:05, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for swatting that edit on Rauf Denktash. I thought Viero and myself had got them all. That fool added everyone from Michael Somare to Isabel Allende to the category. Ambivalenthysteria 08:19, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've had to have Leo Strauss protected from him (see Talk:Leo Strauss). Counterculture needs work. AndyL 18:23, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What would you think about having 'pedia articles on each of the federal electorates? Ambivalenthysteria 05:34, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Krusty the LaRouchie Clown has promoted his hero to the ranks of serious critics of the Frankfurt School; Angela has also protected the article on his version. I'm going to be offline for the day, so I can't deal with it. Will you be able to take a look? Thanks, 172 13:30, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

So what happens when (for instance) Angola has a Head of Government who is not a 'Prime Minister' or when the Head of State assumes the responsibilities of Head of Government as well. Is there then to be a separate list for each Head of Government who adopts a different title or standing? In this case anyone who wanted a list of Heads of Government would have to search through multiple lists for such information, and unless the lists were all sufficiently linked then the information may not be found. --JohnArmagh 09:04, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

So you are saying that where I have a valid expansion of existing relevant information I should incorporated it into an existing page even if the titled remit of that page is narrower than the additional information to be incorporated.

Previous experience of this (i.e. adding Administrators to a list of Governor-Generals) has not exactly met with universal acceptance ;)

Rulers does contain the information, but does this mean it is not required in the Wikipedia? Using this as a principal, the Wikipedia need not exist at all :) --JohnArmagh 09:44, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

edit wars

thanks for putting an end on the pointless and irritating edit war on Jong-il. (the same thing was also happening in Fidel Castro ,and was also ended by User:Evil saltine - --Cyprus2k1 10:18, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Adam, you mentioned on the holocaust talk page that you were thinking of rewriting the article. Are you still working on this? (I know it's currently protected, but I could unprotect it. . . It's been a week.) Quadell (talk) 17:26, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)


Adam I have respect for your background but....

EPIRUS, LOW ALBANIA by Sherif Delvina

1.1 Testimonies on Albanian authenticity in Epirus . The ethnological characteristics of Epirus are contraries to those of the neighboring Greece.

First, let us start with the position the king had in Epirus. In Epirus the king was not allowed to hold the crown on his head. The rights of the sovereign were limited. Without agreement of juridical institutions, the king could not produce coins, neither could he declare war to another state; nor even conclude peace treaties and alliances with other states. During the war, the king executed the function of a military leader of Epirus, having only rights to commit sacrifices. Look what Plutarch says about Epirus’ kings: “The kings, after committing sacrifices to war’s God in Passaron of Molossia, had the habit to bet with them to defend the kingdom according to the existing laws. This ceremony was conducted in the presence of two other kings, surrounded by their friends, who, on this occasion exchanged a lot of presents”. Pouqueville (1770-1838), illuminist, consul of France near Ali Pasha Tepelena, Characterizes the Passaron of Epirus as “….the city where was seen, maybe for the first time, the august union of sovereign and people, that of monarchic power and liberty”. The ceremony of Passaron is quoted even by W. Tarn, to Antigonus Gonat. Kings such as, First Alceta, Arryba, Aeacidae, Pyrrhus, etc., were dethroned or killed according to the right of revocation. The position of women in Epirus changed from that in Hellas. In Greece reigned “tutela mulierum”. There, the women were excluded by law, from public life (ownership, citizenship and privileged situation, up to kingdom run). In Epirot coins the face of Diona is distinguished, on the side of Zeus of Dodona. In the numismatics of king Pyrrhus, the women held a remarkable place. These coins clearly speak of the high position the Epirus women held, in contrast with their companions’ position in Greece. This is also shown by the richness of female graves, discovered by archeological expeditions. Epirot dances, documented quite perfectly in painted ceramics are also evidence of the important place by the woman kept in this ancient land. A brass slab in Dodona , speaks of an Epirot woman, who offers her slave to another woman of this land, without any mediation.(C.Carapanos “Dodona and its Ruins”, page 55-56, Athens 1878). In Epirus, “tutela mulierum” was inexistent. This conclusion is issued by archaeologist Pierre Cabane. This tutelage was missing in that time even in Thessaly, the Greek researcher, A.M.Vavakos points out. This data coincides with the definition made by Herodotus for Thessaly. According to him, Thessalians were of Thesproti origin. Consequently, logic works. There are confirmed reasons that Epirus has issued brave women, who equaled in bravery with men. It is worth mentioning here the terrible Olympia, the mother of Alexander of Macedonia, who put the golden crown to the killer of her husband, Philip II , or Neris and Dejdameia, who were the last “forte men” of Aeacidae dynasty, which had vanished for ever and left the place to Epirot League. In Butrinto, Pierre Cabane tells, one third of slave owners were women. When he speaks about the limits of this originality, he makes known that the place held by women in Epirus and Northern Greece was the same as that held in Central and Northern Illyria. Reading the history of Epirus kings, you can find a lot of non-Greek names,Guiseppe Nensi observes in his work,”Pyrrhus” Torino, 1953. It is enough to mention Taryps, Arruba, Alceta, Aeacidae, whose historical beings could not be put in doubt. Typical are the names of Trojan cycle; Neoptolemus, Pyrrhus, Alexander, Teucer, Andromaca, etc. These kings made matching bondages with others, out of Epirus, as in the case of Olympia, nother of great Alexander with Philip II of Macedonia. Pyrrhus’s women were not Greek. Antigone was the daughter of Ptolemy, a Madedonian. Brikena was the daughter of Illyrian king, Bardylis, while Lanasa was the daughter of Dyonisus, the tyrant of Syracuse. According to well-known cartographer, Kiepert, the map 1: 5000 000 “Epirus and Thessaly”(Berlin, 1880), is presented as follows: Molossia, 3500 km2; Thesprotia, 2050 km2, and Chaonia, 2400 km2, the total of Epirot League, 7950 km2. In Epirot League, Mollosians occupied almost half of Epirot territory. On page 59 of the work “Pyrrhus”, of Pierre Leveque, it is observed that there existed a kinship tie between king of Taulants, Glaucias, and the royal family of Aeacidaes. Glaucias’s wife, Beroia was an Epirot princess. On page 89 of this book is shown Pyrrhus’s fidelity to his mother’s memory. In her memory, king Pyrrhus produced brass coins, which on the right had his beloved mother’s head, Phtia, daughter of Thessalian Menon. Based on Plutarch, Leveque(I IV) while speaking about the growing strength of Pyrrhus among Taulants, quotes:”The wild place of Taulants was just released of atrocity; it missed the lucidity of Hellenism, which Molossian prices had obtained from Greeks since the time of king Tharyps”. While on page 173, the same author notes:”We can say that Illyrians had remained more barbarous(read: non-Greeks) than Epirots, but Hellenism began to influence them”. The author here means the radiation of Helen culture, which at that time included a major part of ancient world. To “Old world”, vol.III, Chicago, USA, 1983, in “Epigraphic searches in Epirus”, there are noted too, seven months of Epirot old calendar: Gamilios, Apelaios, Agrianos, Kraneios, Halotropis, Datyos, Phoinikaios. But we have to assume the fact that suffixes are put because they are written in Greek language. The months of Epirot calendar are absolutely different from those of Greek calendar. The father of ancient history Herodotus, in his monumental work “The History”, book eight , paragraph 47, a book which is dedicated to muse Urania, confesses that the Thessproti are neighbors with Ambracias and Leucades, who came to Salamina battle against Persians from all corners of Greece. According to Herodotus, Greece ended in Leucades islands, which is to the west part of Acarnania and Ambracias of Ambracia city, the only Hellen colony in Epirot seashore. Epirus did not take part in Trojan War, neither in the war against Persian, nor in Peloponesian War, which was of a Greek character, because Epirus was not included in Hellen community. In Panhellenic Conference, organized by Pericles, none of Epirot cities took part, except for Ambracia , which as it is known, was a Greek colony (Plutarch,Pericles, XVII). For Ephor of Cuma Greece starts in Acarnania; this stands also for Strabo(VIII, 333) During all times Epirus, up to Berlin congress, remained out of Greece historical borders. Ancient historians consider Epirots as barbarous. It is known that at that time if one was called barbarous, it meant that he was not Greek. Greeks use today the word “Epirot” in order to hide the name “Albanian”. Albanians are the overwhelming majority of current Southern Albania inhabitants, which is extended up to Arta bay. Greeks, says Herodotus in his book VII, paragraph II, dedicated to Polymnia muse, charged king Leonidas with 300 Spartans to defend Thermopylae passes, on order to prohibit the entering of barbarians to Greece. Herodotus even in paragraph 146 of his book states that in the east of Thermopylae there was a step and impassable mountain, which extended up to Aeta mountain. To the east this road is limited by sea and some valleys and rivulets. There is only a passing way which goes to Phocis, Greece region, extended to the east by Aetolia. This pass, confesses Herodotus, is protected by a wall, constructed by inhabitants of Phocis. That wall was constructed, because they were frightened by Thessalians, who had come from Thesprotia and were placed in Aeolida (Thessaly).Phocis people had taken these measures to defend themselves from Thessalians, who wanted to subdue and to keep them under their yoke. In ancient times, Cams (Tsams) were neighbors with Phocis people and Thessaly was Thesproty land, thus, Cam. Herodotus data are accurate “he knew Greece quite well, had friendship with Athens’elite, with Pericles, Sofocles, etc. His writings both by the intellectual elite, and the people, were held in great esteem. We should not forget that he knew the places he had been. He was curious for everything, says Gustav Klotsch in “ Histoire ancienne”, vol II, page 3. In page 4, he points out that the father of history remains an un-substituted cicerone for everybody who seeks to know about Greece of the fifth century before Christ. History has been, is and will be, as Latins say, life’s teacher. Here we reming all Albanian political parties that the ancient border of our country with Greece followed the line of Leucades islands, Ionian sea, Acarnania, Aetoli, Phocis , Locris, and ended in the Egean Sea. While today, Odysseus’s sons want to displace our border with Greece to Shkumbin River. The main regions of southern Albania, ethnically and historically Albanians, are even those of Filat, Paramythia, Gumenica and all Epirus up to Preveza, with Ioannina, Konica, Florina and Kastoria. In all these places, in particular in Cameri(Tsamuria), the Albanian language is spoken: it is spoken at home and in safe places out of home. In Greece exist severe orders, issued by Greek government, that Cams should not speak their language. These orders have banned the use of Albanian spoken language in that part of southern Albania, given to Greece by London conference of 1913. Large number of Orthodox people live in those areas, who speak Albanian language, as well as Albanian Muslims, compulsorily converted into Orthodox religion. These Albanians, in informal environments are called by Greeks, Albanophons Greeks, which mean Greeks speaking Albanian language. These inverted expressions, serve the organized chauvinist Pan-Hellenic goals and propaganda. The former Greece’s Prime Minister himself, the notorious chauvinist, Venizelos, confessed that Greece’s North is inhabited by Albanians. Let him speak:”It is absolutely exact that North population is of Albanian origin”. ( L. Skendo, Extrait de la Revue “Les peuples libres”, numero d’avril, les revendications albanaises, Lausanne, 1919). The word “North”, L. Skendo stresses, is understood Epirus to Arta bay.

And now let’s see Greek-Albanian border in the Middle Ages. George Acropolites (1217-1282) has written about the war fought by Epirus despot, Michael II against Byzantine troops. Let’s see what he says on this: “We retreated, thus, up to their borders (the troops of despot Michael II –SH.D), e.i. up to Pirene mountains( the mountains of today’s Pindus-SH.D), which separate Old and New Epirus from the old world.(Georgios Acropolites, Chronical work, publicher, Teubner, Lipsiae, 1903). Greek land, according to Georgios Acropolites, was beyond the mountains of Pindus, thus, Epirus is not a Greek land. We must not forget that Georgios Acropolites has been a diplomat, politian, historian and teacher of Byzantinum’s emperor, Theodor II Lascaris; he has also been chief commander of Byzantine army. But these aforementioned sayings, are admitted even by Theodor Scutariot, Byzantine historian, who was born and lived during the XIII century. He states all these in his work “ Introduction to Chronicles” (K.N.Sathas, Bibloteca Graeca medii aevi VII). George Pachimeris, Byzantine historian of the XII century, who during his life has held important state functions, considers Albanians as Illyrians. He limits Greece to the South Thessaly River. Let’s see what he says for Peneu river (Selemvria). Pachimeris emphasizes that: “Byzantium’s emperor, Michael VIII Peleologue ordered to attack Illyrians and tribal regions, as well as those beyond Peneu river, the so called, true Greece”. (“History”, First Volume, book II 26, page 137, Bonnae, 1835) Pachimeris confirmed that Hellas at that time was confined to today’s Selemvria River, yesterday’s Peneu. These Byzantine historians accurately confirm that Epirus and Macedonia had never been Greek lands. If we go back several centuries before the time of historian Pachimeris, we will see what Hellas included. The reply would be accurately given by Greek scholars. In Sinecdemos of Jerocles (VI century A.D) is pointed out that old Greece at that time included only regions of Beotia, of Attica, Phocis, Euboea and Peloponnesus. Donald Edgar Pitcher in “ An historical geography of the Ottoman Empire from the earliest times to the end of the sixteenth century”..Leiden E.Y.Brill, 1972, expressed himself as follows, about the expansion of Albanians in the second half of the XIV century: ”In the second half of XIV century, in North they extended ot Zeta (Montenegro) and in South between Epirus and Corinthian bay”. It is evident that old and new historians are of the same opinion about Greece’s historical frontiers. Greek chauvinists should never forget that possessions of Gjin Zebenishi were extended from Argiro to Glyk, while those of Gjin Bue Shpata up to Naupactus. Theodor Mommsen in “Storia di Roma Antica”, volume primo, Roma-Torino, Casa Editrice Nacionale, Poux Viarengo,1903, page 362 of book II, chapter VII writes:” Cosi rimesso nel retaggio paterno, tutti si strinsero intorno a lui. I valorosi Epiroti, gli Albanesi dell antichita”.( Thus, just when he was put at the head of kingdom(of fatherhood inheritance), all united around him (King Pyrrhus-SH.D.) Epirot bravemen, Albanians of ancient times). We must not forget that Theodor Momsen (1817-1903) is considered as the most distinguished researcher of ancient Roman world. His glory reached the apotheosis by winning the Nobel Price (1902) at the age of 85 years. He wrote a lot of books and, among them is ”The History of ancient Rome”, quoted above. But let’s proceed. Look here what the well-known Byzantine historian of VI century, Procope of Caesarea, says about our Greek neighbors:”In the war Greeks are called coward soldiers, as though Greece never had a right man”. (Procope of Caesarea, “Omnia”, vol. III, I, Lipsiae). This historian, in aforementioned paragraph sees the difference between Byzantium, which was a conglomerate of peoples, and Greece, which was a part of that multinational empire. The people of Byzantium people, according to Procope of Caesarea, did not feel like Greeks at all.

If you want me to reply to this, become a User so that I can reply on your Talk page. Adam 03:43, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Okay Adam thanks for writing. My User name is : Veritass. Thanks again.

Please don't indent your text because it appears in those funny boxes if you do. Adam 05:40, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Please don't misunderstand

Please don't misunderstand, I think your a jolly good chap, but your debate techniques would seem to lack a certain refinement. I don't have a survey of world jewry handy, but in my personal experience, most Jews are inter-marrying atheists, and more likely to be protesting Israeli policy w their Left-Wing friends than to come close to possesing the cahones needed to be a Zionist. If I were a Jew, I'd be in the Israeli military, and would favor an expansion of Israels borders similar to the westward expansion of the U.S. If I was a pali, I'd prob be making a bomb right now. I am neither, and like to think I'm objective, if not indifferent. How can I be indifferent when the whole mess is prob. the single most contentious political issue in the world today? and I must say, you have the strangest taste in art I've come across ;) Sam [Spade] 06:34, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Stupid and malicious

I live on W.P.A.F.B., (near Dayton, Ohio), U.S.A.. I used to be mistaken for a rabbi (my friends and family make fun of me for dressing/acting like an old man, and I had a long beard at that time) in Madison, Wisconsin, and had Jewish roommates there, etc... I have known alot of Jews. I know a half Jewish acquaintance that is acting as an independent reporter in Palestinian controlled areas in/near Israel, as we speak (unless he's dead, who knows). I have known right wing Jews, but very, very, very rarely. I’ve met ridiculous amounts of Left-wing and/or atheist Jews however. I chat online using at least a half-dozen chat engines, seeking out intellectual folks who want to chat about politics. I worked as a sociological surveyor and political pollster for years. I have a bit of perspective, trust me. I understand that wherever you live (Australia?) is very different from where I live, and that you life has been very different from mine, but please don't see that as a negative. I suggest we keep an open mind, an open eye, and make the most of this group editing process. What say you, good sir? Sam [Spade] 07:03, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I apologize for cursing, but clearly the consistent insults made me angry. Lets either resolve our personal differences in short order, or avoid each other entirely. I don't edit here in order to get into a bad mood, which is just where such hostilities put me. Sam [Spade] 07:38, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi, the image of the Hippodrome you uploaded has no source information; I assume you took it yourself, but could you please mark it as such? You can find the image at Image:Ac.hippodrome1.jpg. Thanks very much, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 13:05, 2004 Jul 23 (UTC)

Speaking of Istanbul pictures, you wouldn't happen to have taken any photos of the old walls, would you? Or even the reconstructed ones...I was looking on the web for some for the Walls of Byzantium article, but they are all likely copyrighted. Adam Bishop 22:19, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Great! Byzantium did have a tiny wall but I doubt it remains at all (since it was in the middle of the city by the time the Theodosian Walls were built). The reason the page is under that name is because that's what the author happened to name it and no one has ever bothered to move it, but I will do so now that I am reminded. Adam Bishop 02:34, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I just want to say thank you for your contributions on the Thai royals, I only hope that it wasn't all you have in preparation about them. andy 12:04, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I can fully understand you got infected with the Thailand virus - I got it some years ago as well, and now I am researching Thai history and geography to make sure the country is well-covered here. So I really look forward to your next contributions. The temples you mentioned don't have articles yet - so far just Wat Phra Kaew und the Grand Palace, Bangkok are the only buildings in Bangkok which have an article. I have many photos of temples in Thailand, but hesitated to write about them so far - it's not easy to make them sound like from an encyclopedia, not a travel guide (like the one on Chiang Mai you cleaned up earlier). But I guess Wat Arun and Wat Po deserve an article on their own, and have enough to write about them. andy 11:56, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I copied this from my reaction on Ahoerstemeiers talk page: :It is very "dangerous" to write "negative" things about members of the royal family. I live in Thailand and know that making negative marks about the royal family can get somebody into big problems. No matter if it is the truth or not. Theoratically it can result in a block of wikipedia, they are blocking over 10.000 websites in Thailand already, part of them because they are negative about the government etc. For the list search at Contact me through private email if you want and we will discuss it there.

About the other articles great if you can write them, I have read many of your contributions and I think they are great!! Waerth 14:08, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The marriage info is right, but he is married ... again. As for we should not let the Thai govt. dictate the content of our articles. It is known that when it comes to insulting the royal family they do sue around the world for that. Case in point being a restaurantholder in the US last year. I am also putting critical points about the Thai government like intimidation of demonstrators at the XV aids conference on the pedia, but in the Dutch version. Just to clarify on that matter. I am very carefull with matters relating to the royals as I know that that is a very sensitive point. With matters containing the government and pm Toxin I am not carefull. If you want me to elaborate on that please mail me privately (also for the gossip) Waerth 13:59, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Let me check om all those questions when me Thai friend comes back from his mission in Southern Thailand. The only thing is that IF he has A son with his 3rd wife HE will be the next one in line. They also might pass him over and make the next one in line king. Lot more where that comes from .... Waerth 10:29, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Rick Ross is an expert in destructive cults. His webpage provides a vast array of information on many such groups, including Larouche. Maybe some of the articles here will be of help. RK 17:51, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)

Hi sir, I think you might be interested in that our old friend Avala has nominated one of his cronies for adminship over at Rfa. --GeneralPatton 22:54, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I left you a comment on the make up of the US Senate at Talk:U.S. Senate election, 2004. Enjoy it! -- iHoshie 07:24, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the Chiang Mai images to Buddhism, they look nice. Had a question, though. The image you label as "Images of the Buddha", I figure, is probably not actually three images all of the same person. Any idea who is pictured? - Nat Krause 06:34, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I don't doubt that a given temple could have many images of Buddha, but for three of them to be arranged in a little display together like that seems strange. Unless you object, I'm going to change the caption to "images of Buddhist figures" or something like that. - Nat Krause 08:18, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Well, for the record, a) I am a Buddhist; b) on the other hand, I don't claim any special expertise on Buddhist iconography, particularly not in Thailand; c) I don't want my persistence to give the impression that there's anything important or offensive or something about this. I'm just being thorough. Anyway, it seems to me that when groups of Buddhas are shown together, you still wouldn't say they are "images of the Buddha" so much as images of different Buddhas. And for a Theravada temple to show 50 Buddhas together makes more sense than showing 3, because the former emphasizes that there have been a lot of Buddhas, whereas the latter, I'm not sure what the point is. Theravada doesn't provide a lot of biographical detail on Buddhas other than Siddhartha, so I don't know why they would pick three to show us. On the other hand, the statues in the back do look like Buddhas, to the effect that that's what I would think they were if I saw them in isolation. That's why I would prefer some sort of waffle description. - Nat Krause 11:14, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Okay, if you're sure, then I'll leave it the way it is. - Nat Krause 13:19, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It would be great if you'd see my comment here\. You struck me as one of the sane ones. - Hephaestos|§ 02:21, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Arbitration ruling[edit]

In the arbitration matter of Lyndon LaRouche, the Arbitration Committee has found that you have engaged in personal attacks on Herschelkrustofsky in violation of our policy against personal attacks (see wikipedia:No personal attacks). We have therefore ruled that you will be banned from editing Wikipedia for a period of one day (start time depends on when an Admin issues the block). In the future please refrain from this behavior and use the proper channels of our dispute resolution system. Refer to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche#Final decision for details and for other rulings in this case. --mav 06:48, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Just saw the Arthur Phillip page and saw you did a whole chunk of it. Just wanted to say kudo's :) (I was going to add in the information about the Aboriginals only to find you beat me to it) JohnLynch

World War II wiki-reader[edit]

Adam - In case you're interested, I've started a World War II wiki-reader project, and I'm looking for people who are interested - especially people who fact-check articles prior to printing. You can find more information at Wikipedia:World War II wikireader. →Raul654 05:23, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)

Lyndon LaRouche[edit]

Yes, User:Herschelkrustofsky is also subject to the no personal attacks policy. Could you please give me a link to the attack you speak of? When I have that I will see what I can do. I think the case is still open enough that a ruling could be added. Fred Bauder 11:29, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)

A good place to look would be Herschelkrustofsky's own user page in which he writes about "organized groups of malicious editors" who "impose the most blatant and obvious propaganda". A quick perusal of Herschelkrustofsky's contributions gives a pretty good idea of whether or not he's likely to ever become a useful contributor. Jimbo Wales 20:45, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I found this while looking through the article, "There is no way this "dispute" can be "resolved," because LaRouchists are not amenable to rational discussion." Please try to avoid this sort of statement; it implies much. Fred Bauder 14:14, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)

U.S.-Australia Free Trade Agreement[edit]

Is there anything you think you can bring to U.S.-Australia Free Trade Agreement? The page is still a mess and I thought it'd be good to have someone knowledgeable contribute, given it's an issue of such contemporary relevance. Lacrimosus 01:32, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Richard Butler (diplomat)[edit]

Adam, let's agree that we're in raging agreement about getting Richard Butler (diplomat)'s entry correct and keeping it up-to-date. Well done, and I'm sorry for the cross-posting during the flurry of activity today. Peter Ellis 05:27, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Adam, fair enough that opinions should not be stated as facts, but what is it you're referring to by the "insinuating manner" of my edits? Cheers JackofOz 02:52, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Lyndon LaRouche[edit]

When can I expect a formal response to my request above re Herschelkrustofsky? This is a matter I take very seriously. Adam 07:28, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche/Proposed decision, Section Proposed findings of fact, where the following proposed finding, "6) User Herschelkrustofsky has engaged in personal attacks directed at User:Adam Carr though association with Adam Carr's employer, Michael Danby who he characterizes as "Australia's most outspokenly fascist Member of Parliament" see[1]" has been added and is being voted on.
Also in the section Proposed remedies, "7) User Herschelkrustofsky is banned for one day for making personal attacks." and in the subsection Enforcement, "4) In the event of additional personal attacks by either party, either User Herschelkrustofsky or User Adam Carr are subject to short bans, the duration of the ban to gradually increase upon subsequent offenses." Fred Bauder 12:59, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

You propose:

If I might offer an opinion, the real problem is that Wikipedia has no strategy for defending itself against people who do not share its objectives. You may consider me to be rude etc, and that is no doubt true, but my reason for being here is to contribute to building a free-access world-class encyclopaedia, which I consider a noble project. I think you will agree that I have made some contribution to that objective. Herschelkrustofsky's only reason for being here is to promote LaRouchism, as you well know. He makes no useful contribution, and is a disruptive and destructive element. I fail to see why you permit him to be here at all. Wikipedia ought to be a community of people committed to its objectives. Once it is clear that a person does not share those objectives, and is here for some other reason, they should be, after due process, asked to leave. Adam 13:54, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I think our editing restriction (and I still advocate 86ing him from the Lyndon LaRouche article) pretty much address the question of "only reason for being here is to promote LaRouchism". If he can't do that he will probably go away. Fred Bauder 14:59, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

What you propose would be a policy change and needs to be advocated and discussed before it could be adopted. Fred Bauder 14:54, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)