User:Bishonen/Archive 6

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A Pyrrhic victory, of sort

What? Anyway, I just woke from some disturbing nightmares a few hrs ago. I came out on top, but am still shaken. Please comfort me at will! El_C 10:12, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


What? Dear me. Just watch the tulipfaces and go oooooohmmmmmm for now! Bishonen Bishface.tulip.png talk 10:33, 9 April 2006 (UTC).

Yes! I can do that! It smiles however way to you look at it! Incidentally-ly, my "what" was in reference to the strange fomrat this talk page has taken (lack of goats, for example). It is as if you are trying to convey something, but I've yet to even begin to grasp what that thing is! El_C 10:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Without a care: Sansouuci for FA

Oh!, you're returned to us are you? well I have been very busy indeed, working tirelessly on Sanssouci which is a monumantally brilliant translation by trebor27 and was on FAC, but needed a few alterations. It's now back on FAC and need a few comments (don't even think it!). It really is quite good (IMO) and has lots of pretty pictures - so run along and have a look. Nice to see you back though - refreshed and invigorated. Giano | talk 13:37, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

"Fixing" Sarah Scott

Damn it, people keep "correcting" the title of her novel. <sigh> It reminds me of the newspaper that used a search and replace routine and then had to issue the following retraction: "Last week, the article should have read 'The company hopes that the new actions will help get the finances back into the black,' not 'back into the African American.' We regret the error." Anyway, I was expecting more herring chasing after my comments on the "Brave Admins" talk page, too, but I guess I was either clearer in my intent or more Johnsonian in my dilery than I expected. Geogre 02:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

What's your dilery? An anatomical part? You'll have to put in some commented out caution in the article text, I think. I was just composing one. :-) Bishonen Bishface.tulip.png talk 18:32, 9 April 2006 (UTC).
I beat you to it. Hmm, I don't think the servers are done waking up yet; the salon here is acting a little funny. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:39, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, edit conflict. Easy to beat me when you only put it in one place! As long as mine was done, I put it in, though. Geogre, you get to pick one! Bishonen Bishface.tulip.png talk 02:44, 10 April 2006 (UTC).
Yours is obviously better. Though the comment in the middle of the section header makes me nervous. Seems to work. By the way, welcome back! I missed you. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
It makes you nervous? I couldn't believe it when it seemed to work. Thank you, watch your tulipfaces go round and round (how about some programmer<cough> making an actual animated gif of the flowery whirl?) Bishonen Bishface.tulip.png talk 02:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC).

My dilery. You know, as in "what's the dilery, yo?" (Actually, it was supposed to be "delivery." It's hard to speak of one's clear or Johnsonian delivery when one has a typo in it.) (And Johnson was known to compose while walking to the printer, so I can't say, "He did it, too!") I love your collective warnings. It ought to stop people not using -bots, but, then again, the longish Talk page comment should have stopped them, too, esp. since there was already a history edit summary saying that Scott was the one with the spelling problem in this case. Thanks, folks. Geogre 04:24, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Shakey with a side of Garrick

Welcome back, dear! I do hope you're feeling better!

I've been working on S's reputation a bit, but i've gotten a bit side-tracked. I just noticed the travesty of an article on David Garrick and I immediately set to righting the situation, which will lead back to S's reputation (which will now include Garrick's contribution to performance of S) once finished. Turns out that Mr. Garrick, being one of the wealthiest men in Britain, was also one of the most painted and I've discovered a great cache of paintings of him including a marvelous painting of him in Vanbrugh's The Provoked Wife! The cache is now on Commons in Commons:Category:David Garrick. Again, glad to have you back from the depths of Bedlam! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 03:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I guess you could use this in a sig... if you wanted to drive everyone insane...
Huh? What happen? I'm blinking! Is this the face that launched a thousand ships, all of them trying to get away?
Cool: that should be of help to me in Drury Lane, which still has its one original anemic sentence about Garrick in there. Of course, Drury Lane was only supposed to be a short side-project while I was researching Nell Gwynne (speaking of travesties of articles). —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I still have to send you some info on the ghosts as well. I'll try to remember to do that tonight along with my taxes, ugh! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 15:12, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Oooh! Oooh! Bunchofgrapes, read Fleetwood Sheppard. He's connected to Nelly. As for Garrick, it's too close to my bete noir, Samuel Johnson, whom I have been compared to so often that it's a standing joke between me and Bishonen and whom I actually do not read. Johnson is a world, much like Shakespeare, and I won't visit for a day if I can't get to know the whole of it. Geogre 04:27, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Ooh some more: For Drury Lane, see what is about to take place at Barnaby Bernard Lintot, as I'm about to rewrite that article and include the fact that he automatically offered money to print plays put on at Drury Lane from 1705-1712. Geogre 14:03, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
For those interested, I've finished overhauling and overwriting the Lintot article now. He appears to have been far, far more agreeable than Edmund Curll and actually somewhat reputable, which makes his cojoining with Curll in Dunciad a very serious insult to him. When Pope got pissed off at you, he stayed pissed off. Geogre 14:47, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
(And I just noticed I took this post out myself when restoring the others... getting complicated! ALoan, where are you??) Geogre, the Lintot article is excellent, great flow and sort of attack, I'd love to see that one an FA. You know, the name is an oddity. "Lintott" is a Swedish word, maybe a little oldfashioned but perfectly current: it means "towhead", "blond boy". (Sw lin is indeed = flax or tow.) What do you know about that? Any Scandinavian ancestry at all there? Bishonen Bishface.tulip.png talk 18:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC).
As in linseed and linen... -- ALoan (Talk) 12:15, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I wonder, too. Lintott got convinced that he was related to the royal printer Lintot, so he changed the spelling of his name. However, there were loads and loads of Scandinavian names in the east of England (the Danelaw, after all), so not all the Linders and Lindens were recent. No telling how far back Bernard went. His pa was British, but I don't know about the grand daddy. I was impressed by reading the biography that Lintott was really just a guy who started out poor, liked literature, and climbed reasonably well. He never could hide his "common" background, but he knew his limits and yet wanted to overcome them. Curll was a Rupert Murdoch-like creature, and Tonson was a William Paley sort or a William Randolph Hearst sort. Lintott was somewhere between. Also, it looks like Pope was the dunce in all this, and yet Lintott got blasted more memorably even than Curll, though not as often. Geogre 02:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Da Popezilla! :-D Hi Gan, great that you're taking on old Garlic. I had thoughts of doing it myself, and went and bought McIntyre's bio, but was quite disappointed with it after the great reviews I'd read--I thought it clichéed--and so lost interest. But G himself is extremely interesting, indeed. I think he was as famous in Germany and France as in Britain, if I remember rightly--not as actor, of course, but as an expounder of the philosophy of shakey-acting; do I remember it right? Oh, and Bunch, YES--the Drury Lane article is coming on fantastically, you're doing incredible work, but every time I read that "he produced many plays" while he managed the theatre... it hurts! Bishonen Bishface.tulip.png talk 17:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC).
The pain keeps us alert. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:58, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Animated gif coming on all right? Bishonen Bishface.tulip.png talk 18:06, 10 April 2006 (UTC).
That's hard work! Can I just make one spinning around? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:11, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Mmmmmm... oh, all right. Yes, that would be very nice, thanks. Hey, can I have it spinning round in my sig, do you think? :-D Bishonen Bishface.tulip.png talk 18:19, 10 April 2006 (UTC).
Nice images, particularly G in his dress. I was surprised that someone *ahem* needed to turn The Provok'd Wife from a redirect into an article, though. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Damn, BoG, that thing is hypnotizing! Hey Bish, maybe you could use it to get other Wikipedians to do our bidding! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 19:56, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Like she needs more help there! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I looove this thing! Rolling on the floor laughing out loud! Bishonen Tulipface spin.gif talk 20:16, 10 April 2006 (UTC).

Buckingham Palace on the Main Page

Thanks for your congratulations, I had no idea - how do you know? I disagree with you though it is not my most attractive work, Sic Bar is still (IMO) that; and BP has been much edited and altered, so will probably be FARCd while on the main page, unless one of the zealots spot it first. To be honest I would rather see Sanssouci there on 21st as that exemplifies the wiki community spirit and is also a very attractive page, but it still has to complete FAC, so may take some time. Thanks for letting me know. Giano | talk 14:36, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

You add Wikipedia:Today's featured article/April 2006 to your watchlist, that's all. Well, except that it's a pest because you have to change the name every month, if you want up to date info. I agree that Sic Bar is your chef d'oeuvre, how could I not, but it's a monster, too! (For size, that is.) Bishonen Bishface.tulip.png talk 18:03, 10 April 2006 (UTC).
  • Sorry - thought you would have noticed. It was suggested at WP:TFA and accepted surprisingly quickly. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I think it would be rather "immodest" for moi to put it on my watch list. As you all know I hate a vulgar ostentation! .......Hohohohohoho, yahoooo, yaboooo sucks - fuck a duck - I'm there again - yeehoooooooo!!!!!!!!! Giano | talk 20:11, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, we all know you try. But until you've got your wikiface SPINNING in your sig, you don't even know what vulgar ostentation is! YEEE HAAAA! Bishonen Tulipface spin.gif talk 20:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC).
  • That is just sooooooooo much the tackiest thing I have ever seen, I suppose BoG will have a regurgitating camembert next!.....No, BoG that was a joke, not an invitation I think it's time a took a long Wikibreak, but I just can't bear to give so many so much pleasure. Giano | talk 20:29, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Don't worry, Giano, I'm more of an enabler than a participant. But perhaps I could interest you in a hopping palace, or something? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:38, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
    • ALoan, here we go again — a few recent edits get taken out every time you post, it's just weird. (See history.) I know it's not you being careless with edit conflicts, you don't have to tell me, but what the heck is causing it? Do you think you could take it to some scriptkiddy or to ANI or something? There's got to be some simple explanation. Bishonen Bishface.tulip.png talk 18:39, 10 April 2006 (UTC).
Sorry. I was mesmerised by the rotating tulip. (Last time I asked, they said it was a known bug.) -- ALoan (Talk) 12:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Warning, danger Will Robinson!

Here is the warning you requested Raul654 22:00, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

And still no Restoration literature or Augustan literature or Augustan drama, not to mention poor Attalus I (Paul August's bridesmaid still waiting for a groom). Geogre 02:25, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
We seem to be having a Scandinavian/ice theme month - we have had Antarctica already, and then there is an Icelandic volcano, a Norwegian king, and glacial retreat, before we get to the balloon, which is followed immediately by the allotment system used by the Swedish army...
Infra dig, perhaps, but you could suggest / request Attalus or the others at WP:TFA, rather than waiting to be picked from obscurity... Perhaps I should just do it for you... -- ALoan (Talk) 12:11, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Request it? At this point, Paul has been waiting patiently for over a year, I think. In fact, I think it's rather more than a year by a substantial margin. As for my own poor literature articles, I'd be content with any one of the three. Probably Restoration literature is the fullest read and most readable one, but, because we have Restoration almost as a counter-current to the Frozen North and Nintendo, perhaps one of the Augustan era articles would be salt to the stew. As for requesting... I'm trying to remain at the Center of Indifference as Budha and Thomas Carlyle recommended. Geogre 12:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh - Augustan literature appeared on the Main Page on 10 August 2005! (see Talk:Augustan literature) -- ALoan (Talk) 13:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Shoot! If there were some other president in office in the US, I'd worry that my credibility were ruined by getting things wrong, but I will take a page from his coloring book and insist that I meant Augustan drama or Restoration literature (which probably is the more readable one). Geogre 14:14, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I've wanted to put Attalus I up on the main page for a while now, but coins just don't make good main page images! Check the talk page - I pointed that out way back in early April, 2005 (And the current picture is fair use). Raul654 14:02, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Ah. Paul said that he's at peace with holding the bouquet and bridal train at this point, but it is almost getting comic. Geogre 14:14, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah! Cinders shall go to the ball! -- ALoan (Talk) 14:15, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Ballooon landing on main page

Well! well! well! What a surprise! Congratulations. Giano | talk 06:19, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

  • No as a matter of fact I did not! allthough I was going to. Very intelligent human beings such as Raul and myself though can comminicate by telepathy, so I will take the credit for it being there just the same. Have you removed the pretentious text though? "Gently slipped away, guided by angels, into a better world" is the way I would express it Giano | talk 12:49, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
You do realize the pretentiousness comes in the very first sentence, and will thus appear ON the Main Page itself? I you want to change it, you'll have to do it here, not just in the article text. Oh, I forgot, you can't, can you? Upcoming Main Page text is protected. Only us admins can edit it. And, let me see, you aren't one, are you? <cough>MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA<cough>. Bishonen | talk 10:35, 11 April 2006 (UTC).
Don't worry I'm sure one of your peers like Orane would do it for me. Giano | talk 12:49, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Congratulations and best wishes for the article being on main page, and all the attention that brings. Perhaps "lost the fight, epic and enduring, as all must in the end, against that most bitter of enemies, foe to joy, widow's grief and orphan's warder, death?" Or, to make the expert editor happy, "Kicked the bucket." In fact, I think, "Andree kicked the bucket on White's Island in 1897" will be great. Geogre 12:12, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I liked the first one better, however "lost the fight" just doesn't strike the right note, does it? Perhaps "succumbed to pitiless cruelties of nature" would be more apt? Note the poetic overblown redundancy! KillerChihuahua?!? 12:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Apt schmapt. I declare we have a consensus for croaked. Bishonen Tulipface spin.gif talk 14:15, 11 April 2006 (UTC).
I'm not sure. How about " which all three expedition members labored in futility to push up the daisies that (alas!) would never bloom in their cruel arctic graveyard." —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 14:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
  • .....when their last soft breath was lost on the glacial breeze which enshrinined them for eternity in their sarcophagi of ice. Giano | talk 17:04, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
    • "...then did Fama, with her mournful trumpet sound the passing of these noble men and valiant heroes." Geogre 17:08, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
      • and the world was then still, as only sobbing sounded across the frozen tundra Giano | talk 17:47, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
        • Um, given the frigid fate of our three heroes, who was sobbing exactly? The polar bears? I think not - they would have been most relieved. Perhaps "...and the world was then still, the silence broken only by the gentle sighing of the Hyperborean air, the groaning of the ice, and the padding of polar bears." -- ALoan (Talk) 18:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Forgive him.....he is British..they have no romance in their souls, they see not the beauty in having their bolox frozen off. Giano | talk 19:32, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Requested review

The second opinion I mentioned in IRC was for Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima. Raul654 06:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


Its the one big issue w/ the bot. Part of the problem was the bot was offline earliest and didnt get the original vandalism - I'll take a deeper look when i;m back on my pc.Tawker 20:27, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Quixotic women

I rewrote Charlotte Lennox today. I left typos and such. However, whatever faults my writing may have (and there are quite a few), I invite anyone to compare before and after the inuse tag. Then see my vicious thundering at the original author's lead sentence on the Talk page. Geogre 20:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Just think! One day, if you are lucky, your new version will be mirrored here! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Wh-wh-whatthehell is that? That's fugged up, that is. I mean seriously. Dogwuvvers mirror? ("At a time when women were put down by The Man, Charlotte Lennox was dishing it back, hot, and you can tell because a bunch of famous men were her friends!" Blug! Of all the hydroencephalic criticism!) Geogre 23:12, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I imagine KillerChihuaha likes that mirror, even if you don't, Geogre. Arf! Arf! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:35, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I resent that implication. I'm not sure what you're implying, but I resent it. :P And its "bah, humbug!" not "arf arf" I'll have you know. KillerChihuahua?!? 15:49, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I love my dog very much, and I loved the dog before her very, very much. I'm just not sure that dog lovers have any special need for Wikipedia content or that their version would be significantly different or that, going to talk about my Platonic love of my dog, I'd think to myself, "Know what would really help? Twenty-eight articles on Pokemon, that's what." It's not like there is an anti-dog conspiracy on Wikipedia. Geogre 02:31, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure the Mandan would be infuriated if they knew they could be looked up as a "dog breed". *Shakes head at the state of the world* *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 03:15, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of Quixotic quests, there is an IP editor who has one mission in life: ensure that Wikipedia talks about the "hit television show The Mint." It has insisted, contrary to a "widely respected administrator"'s advice, that The Mint must disambiguate, and not Mint. <sigh> Then someone is editing Hylozoism with extremely learned material -- truly top notch -- but in the weirdest possible way. I tell you, it's enough to make a person want to write articles about Foghat songs and Bachman Turner Overdrive chord sequences. Geogre 02:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I've weighed in over on Talk:The Mint, and I hope you can forgive me for more-or-less agreeing with the anon. As atonement, if you ever need an animated image for your signature, you can count on me. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, the anon is wrong. Did you see how the anon originally wanted it? The top line would have read, "For the smash hit British TV show, see...." I smell marketing. One of the time honored principles of disambiguation is who gets there first, unless the situation is hopelessly illogical. In this case, I think logic is on my side, and I definitely got there first. (Logic is on my side because of 600 years of "the mint" being a district, tons of literature with "the mint" as a reference, vs. 6 months of hype; to have a structure that doesn't mess us up entirely, we shouldn't rename our articles every time a new creature appears. Further, at mint (disambiguation), there are other pop culture ephemera that are known as "the mint," but the authors of those articles didn't get to rename either the plant article nor insert lines nor make the disambiguation the default link nor rename the The Mint article.) Geogre 02:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I have put a pointer to the disambiguation page at the top of The Mint, as that's the proper way, I agree. I just didn't want one particular thing stomping on the article, especially when that thing was a TV show, and especially when its hero was such an obvious shill about it. Geogre 02:57, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Sure; I never meant to imply that the precise approach the anon was following was the right one. Thanks Geogre! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:49, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


Appreciate the reminder on WP:AN. Where do I announce the birth of Wikipedia:Paranormal Watchers ? We're like other wikipedians, only that we have had some experiences with the paranormal and/or investigate these matters. Martial Law 01:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC) :)

By the way, if you have had these experiences, investigate these matters, just plain curious, go to Wikipedia:Paranormal Watchers for more info. Martial Law 01:40, 12 April 2006 (UTC) :)

I got the heebie jeebies once, and I get the phantods every morning. (I've also been terrorized by a ghost once, but I left it alone.) My Ouija board committed suicide from boredom, and my table tapping had no rhythm. Geogre 02:34, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Just a suggestion

Why not create this: Wikipedia: General Inquiries, so that non - admin related questions may be asked ? That should ease the backlog a bit. Martial Law 01:52, 12 April 2006 (UTC) :)

Well, creating it is fine, but getting people to seek it out and read it is another matter. And of course spamming their pages to tell them about it is a no-no. I understand that you want people to know about the new project/group, but the only unobjectionable way of telling them that I can think of is to put highly visible announcements on your own userpage and talkpage. Bishonen | talk 04:15, 12 April 2006 (UTC).
Will do. This was a creation of ours, by other users as well by me. How often are User pages visited ? You're welcome to join us. Martial Law 05:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC) :)

One other thing, do I have all of the Wikipedia links ? I use them as a reference guide. Martial Law 05:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC) :)

I'm not sure that's really answerable. If you want all the pages someone has set up a WP: shortcut for, though, you could look here: [1]. Of course, if you just listed them all, that would be useless: you'd need to exercise editorial discretion to make a useful list, yes? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Can you place that link on my User page ? Martial Law 02:13, 14 April 2006 (UTC) :)
Really do appreciate the assisstance Bishonen. Martial Law 02:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC) :)
Sure. I've put that link at the top of your list of WP pages. Now you have them all. And now I know where to find them, too; I'll just look at your page. :-) Bishonen | talk 02:32, 14 April 2006 (UTC).

Spamming - Wikipedia

What is it, and can I place the indicated link, if one in my link directory ? Martial Law 07:57, 12 April 2006 (UTC) :)

Indeed you can, you can place any links you like on your own pages. Spamming means to post links etc. on lots of other people's pages: "cross-posting of messages to a large number of user talk pages by wikipedians in order to promote Wikipedia matters such as elections, disputes, discussions, etc." (Click on the link to see why it's frowned on.) Bishonen | talk 08:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC).
Appreciate the assisstance. One other thing, next time WP:AN gets a backlog, why not appoint some Wikipedians who are known to be long standing Wiki-citizens as temp. Admins to help handle this sort of thing, sort of having a "reserves" force on Wikipedia, just like we have in the US, such as the military reserves and even the police reserves. Martial Law 19:09, 12 April 2006 (UTC) :)

Dead Swedes

Vilgot Sjöman? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

"Dead Swedes" sounds like a band name. Gothicthrashdeathcrap metal or something like that. (BTW, I think heavy metal musicians is the best represented group of Swedes on en:Wikipedia.) u p p l a n d 16:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
My favourite Swedish band name is "The Kristet Utseende". Nice expansion, ALoan! Though I have to say your fetish for dead Swedes is a little unusual, yes. Bishonen | talk Bishzilla blink.gif 16:41, 12 April 2006 (UTC).
I unredded the link for another dead Swede in the Sjöman article. u p p l a n d 17:12, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Fetish? I saw the Indy obit. (I scan the obits in the English broadsheets once in a while in case someone interesting shuffles off...) I see the Swedish version has some other references, and Gustaf Molander has some a paper reference (Svenskt biografiskt lexikon)... Hint hint. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:31, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Sjöman won't be in SBL, as he died too late. They passed Sj- a few years ago. He should have changed his name to Tjöman or Ujöman in time before he died; now he will just have to wait for the supplement, whenever that will be. But there is stuff on Sjöman in the culture sections of the Swedish newspapers these days. I have to admit that I haven't seen I Am Curious (Yellow). According to Wikipedia, it is "starring Lena Nyman as herself"? What does that mean? She is an actress. u p p l a n d 06:10, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
"As herself" sort of makes sense. She wasn't an actress then. I'm pretty sure her real name is used in the film, and — I'm a little fuzzy on this part — the real Lena Nyman at the time may well have been a sociology student. Lena as an actress was "discovered" by Sjöman, anyway, I'm sure of that much. There was a kind of (surely fake) documentary frame story: the young student Lena does a project, and also tries to satisfy her own "curiosity", about social class in Sweden. See how Sjöman himself is also billed as starring? As himself, is seen to follow her around with a camera, and talking with her some, right there on screen. It's the story of a young person coming to terms with her disillusionment about Sweden as a class society. The American rep of the film is moronic, I have to say. "It's about social cl... sosha... wha...? HEY! NUDITY!" Bishonen | talk 08:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC).
IMDB shows her in a few minor roles before "Yellow", but it was obviously her first significant one. I wonder if she ever went to theatre school or if she was actually planning to leave acting when she was offered this role? I mostly remember her from all the Hasseåtage productions from the 70s. (Not that she is dead or anything, but I think she has either mostly acted on the stage in later years, or has had problems getting roles, as tends to be the case with many aging actresses.) u p p l a n d 09:21, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I think she's of precarious health, actually, probably too much so for major movie work. But she's a very good actress. Kristina Lugn has written some parts for her for the Brunnsgatan venue. Bishonen | talk 09:34, 13 April 2006 (UTC).
Lena Nyman is now a (curious?) blue link. Just a stub. Wow, we actually have a page for Kristina Lugn – fifteen edits since 2002 and it is still just two lines... u p p l a n d 10:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Is there anything interesting in sv:Vilgot Sjöman that I have not picked up, or in the obits in the Swedish newspapers referred to there? I left out the mention of cinema verité in relation to Yellow - it sounds like a central conceit, so perhaps it should go in? -- ALoan (Talk) 10:53, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure I would call it verite, myself. It's more New Wave than anything (8 1/2, Day for Night), where the film within the film is a commentary on both life as performance and on film as a distortion. Geogre 11:49, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh good; well, I mentioned French New Wave. What about docudrama? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:09, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Again, not really. I mean, a docudrama starts from a record of events that have already occurred and then dramatizes them. There is avant garde documentary, especially Medium Cool, but even that really started out as a New Wave film and accidentally became documentary. I'd leave it as New Wave and metafiction. To some degree, even Bergman was doing New Wave metafiction with Persona (film) and definitely with Hour of the Wolf (a fake documentary frame to a reenactment that is entirely surrealist, all feigning horror film). Geogre 13:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Bill O'Reilly said that there was a study from Sweden that showed that, since they had gay marriage in Sweden, marriages have fallen off by 80% and therefore marriage has been destroyed there. (Now, there was no study. Sweden doesn't have gay marriage. If both had been true, it would have been post hoc ergo propter hoc.) Al Franken, commenting on the lies, said that they don't get married in Sweden because...they're Swedes. "They're I Am Curious, Yellow... they're Swedes." Geogre 17:44, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

They are showing I Am Curious (Yellow) on Swedish television tonight. I think I'll have to watch it to see whence Americans have got their impression of Sweden. Meanwhile, Shøp, the Simpsonian version of IKEA, has been nominated for deletion. Some claim the episode says it was Danish, but I distinctly remember that the exterior was yellow and blue. They may well have said that it was Danish in the actual episode, but it was clearly intended as a parody of IKEA in any case. Whatever... u p p l a n d 19:28, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Of course it was of IKEA. They never said it was Danish, either. "Oh, Mom, everyone beats up the kids with the purple pøpli." The "make your own dinner" was the only hollow bit of the satire. (As for deletion, all single episodes of all things should be deleted, according to this deletionist, unless they are generative of substantial discussion that persists over time.) Geogre 20:11, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes, anyone who would question Shøp as a play on IKEA is very, very confused. (Although that doesn't have much to do with whether it was Danish or Swedish, perhaps). And of course it should be deleted nonetheless. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:50, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

For all those late nights...

I award you this coffee machine for all those late nights you spend up writing new and interesting featured articles on wikipedia. You might need to fill it however, I seem to have drunk the last cup.  ALKIVARRadioactive.svg 18:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Great! Now the members of Bish's salon have a new coffeemaker and we can all stay up late working on our articles! Thanks Alkivar! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 18:53, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

LOL, thank you Alkivar! Bishonen Tulipface spin.gif talk 19:27, 12 April 2006 (UTC).

The rainbowing was committed by User:Avillia. Man, this page keeps getting purtier and purtier. Bishonen | talk 01:23, 14 April 2006 (UTC).

Did I disappear from your page just now, or did I disappear long ago? Me, I don't want to get framed, and prettiness is wholly inappropriate for me, in any sense. Geogre 02:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Kelly Clarkson

Bishonen, I strongly require your assistance at Kelly Clarkson. There is currently an anonymous IP removing content and violating WP:NPOV. Could you please semi-protect it for a predetermined amount of time? Thank you. —Eternal Equinox | talk 02:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Situation has been settled. No need to semi-protect it now, but thanks nonetheless. —Eternal Equinox | talk 02:56, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Copy links

Go ahead and make a copy of the Wiki-links that are on my User page for your use. Martial Law 18:33, 14 April 2006 (UTC) :)

Your new sig ...

Tulipface spin.gif

Wow, your new sig is ... uhh ... interesting. --Cyde Weys 23:41, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

You bet it is. All my new sigs are interesting. Bishonen | talk Bishzilla blink.gif 23:53, 14 April 2006 (UTC).

Mine is reader response. It blinks and spins and goes through a polarizing effect. When you look at it, close and open your eyes rapidly, 35 times per minute. Next, shake your head back and forth rapidly, approximately 270 degrees of arc travel per four seconds. Keep both activities up at the same time, and in about 180 seconds you'll see the polarizing effect I was referring to. Geogre 04:39, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

LOL. I tried that, and am now in a persistent vegetative state. It was worth it, though. It looked lovely. Bishonen | talk 14:40, 15 April 2006 (UTC).

Image on sig

Can you place a M-16 w/ the Grenade launcher or a XM-25 image on my sig, so that it'll appear when I sig anything ? Martial Law 00:49, 16 April 2006 (UTC) :)

Users can't modify other users' sigs. And the use of images in sigs is highly discouraged already (I don't know why Bish is doing it). --Cyde Weys 00:50, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Lah di dah! I only do it on my own page sometimes, Cyde. It's my playpen. :-) Bishonen | talk 00:57, 16 April 2006 (UTC).
Can this be done ? Martial Law 01:07, 16 April 2006 (UTC) :)
No. You'll have to do it by hand: write out (or paste in) the code every time. Bishonen | talk 01:13, 16 April 2006 (UTC).

Happy Spring celebration / Easter (as your preferences and beliefs dictate)

Moe is here to say Happy Easter! -- Moe ε 18:20, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Here's hoping that if the bunny leaves you any beans they're this kind! ++Lar: t/c 15:46, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

check facts

Please check the facts before you start making assumptions--JohnnyCanuck 01:11, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

You might want to check this edit

(And for the record, all I was restoring were the messages that were connected to new messages I was adding, not merely restoring blanked messages.) --Calton | Talk 08:05, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Bishonen | talk 08:56, 17 April 2006 (UTC).

Redirect and target page

Are there possibly any guideline anywhere saying that a word redirected to an article, should be explained or at least mentioned in that page? I clicked "Carlos V]], and found myself at an article called "Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor". I spent some time checking it was the right king, then added the name in the article. Now people keep saying it shouldn't be there, since he wasn't called by that name in Spain. Apparently he was in other places though, since there are 14 wikilinks to "Carlos V". I know pretty much nothing about the king in question, but IMHO it would be commons sense to make sure readers should not have to experience regarding my confusion. The principle not to mention what someone was called in all the countries in the world is valid I guess, but there has to be a limit. Do you think there is any kind of guideline I can point to? Where should I look for it, do you think? // Habj 12:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

If the reference is unobtrusive, why are folks arguing? I should think the number of links is sufficient to have something like "Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (also, Carlos V, Charles V, and Charlieboy #3)" wouldn't be the end of the world. It's either that or have Carlos V redirect to a disambiguation page that lists all the nations that had a fifth Carlos as king, as well as anyone known only as Carlos V (the letter, not the number). Presumably there are no other Carlos V's around and that's why the redirect goes to the HRE. Geogre 13:28, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I really do not know what it is all about, and I do not feel like fighting over it. I see the page has been edited since I left it, but I will not check in what way... my comment is left on the talk for the future. *shrug* Thank you for you comment. // Habj 11:11, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I hear the muffin man lives on Drury Lane

Muffins in oven.jpg
Lighten up and have one of these, Al. Bishonen

Attention habitués of Bishonen's Grande Salon: Theatre Royal, Drury Lane is open for Peer review business. I appreciate any and all commentary and criticism, and please don't hesitate to point out the really nasty warts: coming into this I knew pretty much nothing about theater (well, I played Templeton the rat in a third-grade production of Charlotte's Web -- yes, the Paul Lynde part -- but not very well, judging from the fact that they replaced me with the understudy for the main staging) or English history before 1800 and so who knows what kind of crazy things I may have written. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:39, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I doubt the muffin man of sacred memory was selling anything containing chocolate chips. See English muffin. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:10, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
What makes you sure those are chocolate chips? They may be what the muffin man also had in his muffins. (Raisins, I mean. Why? What did you think I meant?) Geogre 10:42, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
I have never seen raisins melt like that - perhaps American raisins behave differently? Anyway, the caption at User:Fir0002/Fir0002_gallery is pretty clear... -- ALoan (Talk) 12:24, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Everything's big in America (especially the Americans), and our raisins are that large unmelted. (Ok, so I meant bits of rat in the muffin. I'm assured by a very knowing Englishman that such is a staple of London cooking. Geogre 12:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Although I agree with your perceptive critique of girth in America, the tell-tale was not the size of the objects but their apparent meltedness (and the image caption; although, if I am being honest, that came a bit later).
Rat? Are you sure you don't mean spam? Or possibly shepherd's pie, with real shepherd on top? Very popular in Fleet-street. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:31, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
No, rat. Even if there's a dead bishop on the landing, the meals have rat, unless the rats have starved eating British spotted dick. Here in America, we prosper so much that even our poverty stricken people can be 300 lbs. overweight. Now that's a land of plenty. Geogre 23:24, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
The real muffin man can be found here. KillerChihuahua?!? 19:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC) (Bish, if you put this in your sig spinning around, I'll... I'll... um. Well, you'll be getting a bill from my optomitrist, that tulip was enough!)
Very pretty bloom! Speaking of pretty, Bunchy, could you possibly make me a spinning Bishzillahead? It doesn't have to blink at the same time, as I don't think people would get the best out of the blinking in a sig-size spinner, anyway. (Arf! Arf!) Bishonen | talk 22:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC). (And that wasn't a tulip, it was an Easter egg on a stick!)
OK, give me a day or two. (And ALoan, this whole muffin thing has been educational, thanks.) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:28, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Bishzilla spin.gif
My head is spinning and I feel the muffins that I just ate coming back up again! Ach! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 17:31, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I keep telling you, careful with those muffins, Gan! It sounds like an interesting effect, though. Why don't you send a portrait of yourself to Bunchofgrapes? I'm sure he'll make an animated gif of your head spinning, if you ask nicely. Wouldn't that be a delight for your userpage? Bishonen | talk Bishzilla spin.gif. 17:49, 19 April 2006 (UTC).
What a marvelous idea...he can just take the head off of me as Jacob Marley on my userpage. That would be wonderfully scary...something to scare thew vandals away, for sure! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 18:53, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
It's like a whirlpool and it never ends... -- ALoan (Talk) 18:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Row, Tommy Roe. Geogre 22:10, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Close but no cigar, hombre. The differences are subliminal, in an unnoticeable way; important, and hard to see. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:50, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Change in text on Godot template

The change in text was liked, however, by both me and Yossarian, insofar as: (a) it's more orthographically correct (i.e., it's simply wrong to say "This user is Waiting for Godot", with the title used in the sentence, which would mean "This user is the play Waiting for Godot"); and (b) the new text directly references a word used in the play ("surely"). Thoughts? —Saposcat 12:28, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Woops. Jumped the gun again. I see you took care of point (a)—sorry about that. But surely we can put the "surely" back in? —Saposcat 12:38, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
I realize it's in the play, almost a refrain in the play: "Godot will surely come tomorrow." But what I liked about the template, when I put it on my page the other day as my only userbox ever, was that, without the "surely", it sounds like I'm actually sure. I know Godot will come tomorrow, so I'm merely making a neutral announcement of what will come to pass. (Whereas when it's qualified with "surely", I'm merely expressing a hope, and some obviously shaky optimism.) I found that amusing; there's no accounting for these things. Using "surely" because that's the way it is in the play is more of an excluding in-joke, to me. But it's obviously not up to me, if several people like the other version. I'll remove it from my page; I'm fine with that, as I'm against boxen anyway, on the whole. Thanks for being so polite, Saposcat. Bishonen | talk 13:52, 18 April 2006 (UTC).


I was a bit surprised by this reversal of my tagging an image "no source". [2]. What source is mentioned? "at the end of the 19th century, by N. Orlof"? Is this really enough? That something depicts something at a certain timepoint doesn't necessarily mean the image was made at the time it depicts. We are told nothing about this N. Orlof, not year of death either.

I know I have pestered you with image copyright stuff before, and you showed me someplace else. Maybe it is about time I get myself a little list of people to contact on copyright issues, not including you...? I could talk to the person who removed the tag, of course, but I am not sure that way would lead to anything constructive. // Habj 14:10, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Er, well, you're most welcome to ask me about anything, but I'll admit image copyright is something of a least favorite subject. ;P Meanwhile, that's odd, the way you were reverted. There is clearly no source. A source would be something like "Downloaded from http://etcetc", or "Scanned from the book such-and-such, p.xx", or "Photo taken by uploader". The kind of info that you mention, when the picture was painted etc, wouldn't be a source either, but would be needed for correct licensing. IOW that image page has not one but several problems — what there is isn't enough by any means. Maybe User:SCEhardt meant to say something else. I'd message him if I were you. Link to this post of mine if you like, or simply to these examples of image pages for old oil paintings (though I bet Nemesis will get me for offering my own uploads as some kind of ideal — I'm sure I've left stuff out — but they're the only ones I can easily find). Here's one with a web source and one, on Commons, with a book source. Bishonen | talk 14:50, 18 April 2006 (UTC).
Right. It all dissolved without any hard feelings at all... sometimes you worry for nothing. // Habj 22:45, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


I'm leaving Wikipedia, which I'm sure will keep you happy. I'm sure you'll also figure that some reincarnation of Hollow Wilerding— oh, wait. I'm Hollow Wilerding, how could I have forgotten such a thing?! (Please...) So, yeah, I'm sure you'll figure that I'll make a grand return in the future: wrong. This website should be removed as it is a battleground. Nevermind the nonsense posted at WP:NOT. Goodbye. HW will be there in Sweden with my photo. Hope you like her. —Eternal Equinox | talk 15:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


  • Thanks for reverting my talk page. I'm seriously at my wits end with these people. pm_shef 17:46, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
    • You're welcome. Perhaps you saw on JohnnyCanuck's page my appeal to him to not reinsert his own vandalism counter (but he did)? I haven't researched whether yours is appropriate — has the page really been vandalized 9 times? (Vandalize is a very strong word.) It seems unlikely on the face of it. But I'll leave it to you, please think about it. Bishonen | talk 18:03, 18 April 2006 (UTC).

the removal of the "vandalisim" counter from pm_shefs was a test,Why when someone removes it from my gpage its ok and if i reverted i get warning not to revert it? yet when I do it to a user that is very questionalbe with his intentions again it me that gets a warning?--JohnnyCanuck 17:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Please see my message to Pm shef above. I'm not in the business of researching all possible abuses over the entire site, you know: like other admins, I deal with the ones I come across. And unlike you, Pm shef hasn't alerted my warning system by deleting other people's comments on article talkpages and ignoring the 3RR. (As far as I'm aware.) You say you got a warning not to return your vandalism counter when somebody removed it? From who? Not from me, and not from anybody else that I saw. You got warned for removing warnings, not for returning the counter. You got appealed to about the counter. By me. I explained to you, nicely, why things like that counter, and your overuse of the word "vandalism" altogether, would make other editors think the less of you and tend to make your time here more frustrating. Please don't come out with these random, poorly considered accusations, and don't make silly "tests" at other users' expense. Bishonen | talk 18:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC).

In coming

Just to let you know, there will be an e-mail document heading your way soon. I know you wanted to attend the conference coming up here soon and couldn't, so I'll let you see the best paper that will be presented there, if I can finish the concussion to it. Geogre 17:36, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

that's so cute, if only it weren't so sad... How are you doing? Please tell me you aren't really planning to finish a concussion. And on a similar subject, did you know that my spell check wants to change Bishonen to Bison? Although in some of her moods, it may have a point. KillerChihuahua?!? 21:31, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I'm sure the ending will be a knockout. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Just get Simon Byrne over here. I'll give him a piece of my new motto, which seems to have had an excellent effect on Bunchofgrapes, last seen running for the hills: "You toy with Bishzilla? You dance with death!" Bishonen | talk 00:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC).

I finished the paper, and I'm presenting it tomorrow. It's entitled...hmmm...I'd better not. It's going to be in print, and I suppose I want to avoid any potential identifications. At any rate, I wrote the paper, and I'm presenting it tomorrow...just after I read it for the first time to chop it down drastically. It's 14 pp., and it needs to be about 8, as it's a 20 minute reading period. (Guide for anyone else out there: plan on 2.5 minutes a page to 2 minutes a page, depending on how jittery you are.) Anyway, it's just one of those academic things, and, basically, it's built up of about 5 Wikipedia articles I've written this year, only without the NOR prohibition. Geogre 00:17, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Yep, don't mention stuff like that, it's a gift to any amateur detectives ouot there. Goodnight Geogre! Bishonen | talk 00:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC).
Mmm - I've been trying to get an article that wants to be 2,500 words into 1,800 words for the last few days... There is not much you can say in 1,800 words...
I'm sure it will help to know what it is about. You can refer to it after it is published, of course, so nor OR any more :) -- ALoan (Talk) 00:49, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

See, that's the thing. I know some folks who post here who are writing things that they have published, but they can't refer to it. After all, having a reference to a thing you yourself have written is...well, it's tacky, and it's a big sign post to the amateur detectives. I'm referring to one now-missing Wikipedian in particular who had sufficient fame in real life to be found quite easily by anyone who wanted to search. Me, I'm in such a wasteland that folks coming to pay me a visit will be surrounded by 100 gun barrels of relatives in a flash, but still, it's the principle of the thing. Geogre 01:10, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I survived it, and I also met a very nice someone and got a chance to go out drinking. Very nice academic conference, all things considered. (And I even get to sleep in my own bed tonight. Then again, I have to sleep in my own bed tonight. Mixed blessings, there.) Geogre 02:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Moving pages

Are pages never moved without prior discussion at here at enwiki, not even when they do not follow normal naming conventions? // Habj 13:27, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Generally, if the name doesn't follow naming coventions then you may go ahead and move it unless there is a dispute at which point it would be safe to only move if there is consensus to do so. Cheers! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 16:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Be Bold and keep on moving, but be prepared for it to be moved back or to be asked to justify the move. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:06, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
OK thanks. I suppose I stumbled on an exceptional case. // Habj 10:29, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Removing references

The article fever mainly uses original scientific articles as references. This is how you do it if you write a scientific review article, but IMO a couple of textbooks would be better references on Wikipedia when the subject is as basic as this. In general, it takes insight to the field to decide what original articles to pick; you can do that in many ways, and end up with several different conclusions. I am not questioning this pick of orginal articles - how can I do that without reading them? It might well be a good pick made. I do not know if I do not read them all (honestly, I do not plan to). (Addition: well, actually I would not know even if I read them all. I am not that initiated. Habj 10:32, 22 April 2006 (UTC))

My problem is, I do not really understand how to edit the article in more than minor details - not unless I do a complete rewrite, throw all references out and add new ones instead. Let us say I rewrite half of it, but leave the other half of it as it is. If I do that and just add a couple of more references, probably half of the references mentioned are not actually used as sources for the text. However, I would have no clue which ones to remove. I could do it, but do not feel this should be a prerequisite for editing an article on a simple thing like fever.

Actually, the whole references section was added by one editor [3] who no longer is active here. I really do not know how to go about this. All kinds of suggestions and comments are welcome. // Habj 10:29, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Grrrr ISBN?

What's wrong with ISBN numbers now? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

PS Sheesh can I be any more ingracious? Thanks for the great additions. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:39, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Haha. Well, those particular ISBNs wouldn't hurt anybody, as they're not exactly paperback bestsellers, and the Smith is probably too old to have one anyway (did you know there even were gay couples in Restoration comedy? lol); but in principle I'm against ISBNs in wiki references. They direct the reader to one particular edition. That's just plain wrong. Also it sours my temper to have to provide diffs and argue on FAC about this, that, and the other being obligatory. Every clueless newb is happy to tell the world an article can't be Featured because it "must have ISBNs" (not at all), or "didn't go through Peer Review yet" (love the "yet"), or "lacks footnotes" (arrrggghhhh). IOW, basically, I didn't have the ISBNs for those books. You add 'em. ;-) Bishonen | talk 00:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC). P.S. You do know that the "N" in "ISBN" already stands for "number"...?
Isn't pointing the reader to one particular edition important, so the page numbers are valid? Or am I conflating different meanings of the word "edition"? (As far as "ISBN number", um... hmm... oh, forget it, the whole ISBN thing is too complicated for me! They should replace them with those easy-to understand UPC codes. Now I have to run down to the ATM machine. You knew this was coming.) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 00:29, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
And people wonder why I haven't worked up a FA lately. The first "must use inline citations of my favorite ref system" comment, and I'll go ballistic. F*cking pinheads! Middlebrow jackasses! Shaved apes with Koko's keyboard! Geogre 15:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
/me slams down Koko's keyboard hard on Tokyo. ROARRRR! Koko's keyboard useful! Bishonen | talk 15:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC).
Woah, Bishzilla! Me come in kindness. May I ask, why is it that we have so many different systems of citations and footnotes? Having just recently published a book, I know that consistancy is vital, it would seem that even here consistancy would be key. I find it most irritating that we have G*d knows how many different ways of doing it, no consistancy and people still complain. Ok, my diatribe is complete. You may return to the destruction of Tokyo, just watch the historic temples, will ya? *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 16:28, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
First, this is a website. Second, whose reference system? The people that I loathe so much are, first, insisting on notes, and notes are not done in humanities journals. Second, they're wanting the most complicated system on purpose as a way of making themselves feel better. Third, there is the moronic trans-Atlantic querrulousness that will show up sooner or later ("quote," or "quote", or "quote1," or "quote,"1 or "quote"1, or 'quote1', etc.). Let all that whinging take place on the print version. Until the print version stops being vaporware, let's just give references, and to hell with the gnat inspection. (Sorry about the Geogre Boots, and mean no offense to Ganymead, but I can't countenance the rejection of hard work, good writing, and a positive contribution to the world because some alum-puckered teenager has convinced himself that anything without his favorite ref system must be rejected.) Geogre 16:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Quite Geogre, quite! Giano | talk 17:01, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
No offense taken. Of course I'm hardly an "alum-puckered teenager" *grin*, though I know I have been guilty of crying "Inline cites!" at FAC. Though I do concur that the requirement that ALL article possess them is a bit much. Certainly, I do think they should be used if one is quoting statistics or even if they are quoting someone verbatim, but not for every little fact in an article. Perhaps this is the price of all the MLA stylistic procedures forced down our throats in high school? Hmmm...should I use a footnote for Geogre's quote? *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 17:06, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
First: I can't believe you called me a brainwashed hippie! (Wait, sorry, wrong thread.) First: could someone please answer my question about ISBNs, editions, and page numbering? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:52, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
If you insist. Page numbering is a swamp. Sometimes people refer to the edition they see in the library catalogue, complete with ISBN, while actually quoting from, and getting the page number from, the £1 Wordsworth paperback they picked up at Amazon. Sometimes (often) they get the ISBN from Amazon's site but actually read the book in the library. With weird old scholarly never-reprinted books like the ones I mostly refer to, they have no option but to get it right, taking the edition, the page numbering, the ISBN, and the text from one and the same book. And if they're in grad school and careful about stuff like that, they also get it right even though several editions exist. It's the Black Lagoon, and it's full of rotating dismembered heads of cartoon monsters. This isn't specific to wiki, it happens in dissertations too, only not as often. A website with a retrieval date is, in this sense, a better reference. P.S. I would also say that with scholarly books it's not a big deal. You can usually find the passage via the index. Bishonen | talk 18:13, 23 April 2006 (UTC).

Can I finally comment? I've been blocked most of the day. The block message was that there had been AOL vandalism, so someone blocked the whole flipping range! Then I'd unblock whichever number I was at, find that I could no way force the browser to *really* refresh, etc. What a pain. I was going to say that MLA format shoved down high school throats should only be a problem if we insist that we must have something more obsolete. There's no reason for insisting on something more arcane and less manageable than MLA format. After all, MLA format exists because we all used to use arcane systems and found that they didn't work. I agree with Barrymore: Reading a footnote is like running downstairs to answer the bell on the first night of marriage. Geogre 02:21, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the speedy action. Could you repeat it?

Thanks for blocking the sneaky user vandalizing NicholasTurnbull's Talk page. Could do the same thing with another (or maybe the same?) who earlier today posted legal threaths againt Nicholas? It's (talk · contribs). The threaths are direct continuation of previous Jeffrey Vernon Merkey's antics on Wikipedia. The IP number fits as it's another COMSAT IP number from Utah, as all previous IP numbers used by Merkey but one. I strongly believe this IP number should be blocked. In the past, one months blocks on the IP numbers Merkey used were good enough (he never returned to the same IP number after a block). I've posted info about this on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents about 12 hours ago but did not make a new section so no admin noticed it. Cheerio. Friendly Neighbour 20:20, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Blocked for 24 hours. If this were a logged-in user, I'd gladly block indefinitely, but when you say JM never returns to the same IP, of course I have to assume it's dynamic. A longer block would be more likely to inconvenience innocent bystanders than the scum, whoever it was, that posted on Nick's page, unfortunately. Thanks for letting me know. Bishonen | talk 20:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC).
24 hours may be too short. Merkey seems to have several IP numbers at a time. He probably has a lease on 4 or 8 from the cable company. He changes them from time to time. But not every day. But thanks anyway. I'm keeping tab on this IP number. If it is used again by Merkey, can I let you know? Friendly Neighbour 21:05, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely. Please do. Bishonen | talk 21:37, 23 April 2006 (UTC).

Jeff Merkey returned today as (talk · contribs) to vandalize the pages about himself, about his block and some others. I posted the details on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. His edits helped me detect another sockpuppet of himself WolfMountainGroup (talk · contribs) which is the name of Merkey's company and whose April 14-15 input was linked to some articles by today's sockpuppet. Friendly Neighbour 12:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Can you please answer my questions?

Dear Bishonen, I asked you some perfectly reasonable questions, which you have never answered. Can you please answer my questions? They can be found near or at the bottom of my talk page.
Thanks Maggiethewolfstar 20:40, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Your are somewhat mistaken

I am afraid you must be confusing me with someone else. It is a person named Gamaliel that roams aroung the web page calling other persons edits nonsense and engaging in other similar attacks.

Your statement about what you saw is not backed up with any of the evidence that would be preserved (on his page) if it were true.

Your threat to "block" is the same that Gamaliel always raises. A little bit of power sometimes gores to one's head.

RPJ 22:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Preserved on his page? LOL. Have you not discovered History tabs yet? Several people are threatening to block you, are they? What a coincidence. If you believe you can deter all admins from blocking you by attacking them, so that everybody will be "in conflict" with you and hence unable to block you, you will find yourself mistaken. Bishonen | talk 22:24, 23 April 2006 (UTC).

Thanks for getting back to me

I need some time to respond to what you wrote. Can you please sign your comments in the future? Thanks again. thewolfstar 22:29, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I always do, look under your curious heading " ??? to Bishonen". If you're asking me to add signatures to my interlined responses in between your unsigned questions, uh... no, I think not. Could you please use edit summaries? Bishonen | talk 22:34, 23 April 2006 (UTC).
This from someone who vandalized my user page earlier because one of the poems said something, and then, despite the photo, referred to me as "lady?" And this is a person worried about exact location of comments? Sheesh. I know nothing of the person except that, but it sure looked hydrocephalic to me. Geogre 02:24, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


A Barnstar!
The Surreal Barnstar

My heartiest congratulations to you on writing a wonderful, amazing FA on S. A. Andrée's Arctic balloon expedition of 1897. You bring fresh wonder to Wikipedia. Thank you. Rama's Arrow 00:32, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

! Thank you very much, that's very flattering! :-) Bishonen | talk 00:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC).

  • Great article! I enjoyed reading it. --BillC 03:15, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Ahhhhhh, more flattery! Please say the part about "great" again, I couldn't quite hear you! ;-) Bishonen | talk 03:18, 24 April 2006 (UTC).
      • Only one 'great' per customer. :-) --BillC 04:46, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Sarony Napoleon - Sarah Bernhardt 1900.jpg

Sarah Bernhardt Award for High Drama
Presented to Bishonen for High Drama (worthy of Sarah Bernhardt) on the mainpage with her article on S. A. Andrée's Arctic balloon expedition of 1897. Balloons and icebergs and death! Oh my! 24 April 2006.
Presented by Ganymead

Yet another little something to accompany your accolades. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 04:18, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Beautiful, Gan, thank you so much! I'd no idea you were so clever with wikicode design — I should have known from the theatre portal, of course. It's lovely, but the lady seems to have forgotten to put on her oilskins — what's she doing out among the melt ponds in that gear? Bishonen | talk 09:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC).

Andrée edits

I think the "four months" thing was just bad arithmetic/a stupid mistake on my part. I was in a hurry and didn't look closely enough at the dates. As for the other edit...I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I did that. Thanks for fixing it. I tend to be rather obsessive-compulsive about wording everything just right and sometimes become entirely too fixated on being able or not being able to include certain bits of information...yeah. Just change it. Sorry. Finduilas09 01:37, 24 April 2006

Heh, it's fine — it's nice to see people take an interest! Bishonen | talk 09:45, 24 April 2006 (UTC).

Bish, I reverted an anon who had made good-faith edits but seemingly based on an older version of the article (and Andrée was obviously Oscarian, not Victorian!). You might want to check if there was anything there worth keeping. u p p l a n d 10:06, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Whim

I think none of us owns the article - neither you nor me. And I fail to see something ugly in my edits. I read WP:CONTEXT carefully, however, and am prepared to concede that you were right. Meeting editors who reduce the article to a mess of over-linking as often as I do, I believe I should bring WP:CONTEXT to their attention in the future. --Ghirla -трёп- 15:31, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Huh, are you are troll? I responded on you page, I don't know why you pretend not to see the text printed above. Please stop stalking me. My policy is not to feed trolls. Cheers, Ghirla -трёп- 15:57, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
You hadn't posted it when you said you had, and not when I replied. Compare the timestamps, then get lost and take your insults with you. Bishonen | talk 16:05, 24 April 2006 (UTC).
Your behaviour is very rude. Now I see that you contributed significantly to that FA, so I'm sorry to have called you a troll. Nevertheless — judging by your irascibility about such paltry things — a little more civility towards fellow wikipedians would be in order. Cheers, Ghirla -трёп- 16:14, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
You lie. I told you I'd authored the article and then you called me a troll and a stalker. You claimed to have posted on my page, and then you actually did post, and said that I had only been "pretending" not to see it in the meantime. I realize it's less embarrassing for you to go on flaming me than to actually look at the timestamps. Bishonen | talk 16:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC).

Artistic opinion rquested

Do you think it would be an abomination or a good thing if I were to image-edit a version of your lovely line-drawing Image:Theatre Royal Drury Lane 1813.png to have a white background instead of the grey? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:27, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

There is a better version that I color corrected in commons a while ago: If this is a better version in your opinion, I can delete the one in en.WP and it articles will automatically pick up the one in commons. Drop me a note in my talk if you like the idea. ≈ jossi ≈ t@ 03:30, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, that particular color correction at least, to my eye, oversharpens some of the dark lines. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm... No sharpening was applied. Just levels adjustments as the histogram was all skewed. ≈ jossi ≈ t@ 05:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Hardly "mine", is it? (Though I did upload it, and the book I scanned it from isn't particularly easy to get hold of again, and I would hate to see it deleted, Jossi.) A white background seems like a good idea, to make it show more clearly, without having to display it so very large. People will probably prefer to use such a version in articles, at least most articles — not, say, if there's ever an article about the original draughtsman! Deleting the original seems like a really bad idea to me, sorry. It is the original (apart from more philosophical questions of how far the book has changed color with age and what difference my scanning did — though it was designed to retain the appearance of the drawing in the book), it has an artistic quality that the doctored one doesn't, and it's in genuine 1813 style, just the way the coloring is. If I were using the new one in an article, I would on the contrary make sure to point out in the caption that it was a "treated" version "after" the original such-and-such. Bishonen | talk 16:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC).
I see your point. But there is no harm in color correcting a scan! I have not seen the original, though, so I did that "blind". ≈ jossi ≈ t@ 23:59, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Photographs and Swedish legalese

You might be interested in a question I asked at sv:Wikipedia:Bybrunnen concerning the copyright to old photographs (postcards in particular). u p p l a n d 04:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Haymarket, etc.

I've gotten the onliest two books our library has on Fielding and his dramatic career (and I still can't find his plays in print). One is by Battestin, from about 1988, and the other is some dude's dissertation (and it's tedious). At any rate, Battestin cites Hume from 1985 on the theaters, and he gives details of the founding of Little Theatre, Haymarket, so there may be enough he borrowed for me to construct an article. (Forget finding Hume here.) I also re-read Sarah Scott. You know, the OR in there is actually pretty calm and inarguable. Shoot, it makes me wonder if it's worth re-investigating the woman to establish the Mysterious Revulsion of Sexuality that takes place 1750-1780. I wonder if her connections to the high class (as in Class) world is a hint of competitive prudery, as I mentioned to you. Also, I'm wondering if I can ship out my papers to Bangalore for grading. There must be an out-sourcing solution. (I know: just don't assign them.) Geogre 13:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and for comparison, see the history tab on Attalus I. It has been vandalized even more than yours was. I think, when it's an interesting story, the turds vandalize it less. The 11 year olds clearly don't like Attalus I. ("You must be this tall to ride the Wikipedia.") Geogre 21:06, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

from thewolfstar

..back to Bishonen, please read. Thanks. thewolfstar 17:49, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

If a moment is spare

Don't contradict Giano. He'll go all Latin on your ass. If you look closely, you can see the sweat.

Hi Sweatpea, If you have a lonely moment in the night: Could you watch Palazzo Pitti for me, there seem to be odd forces afoot! Love and kisses Giano | talk 19:42, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Umm, Giano, you might mean sweetpea. Not to be pedantic or anything, but I suspect that a sweat pea is something you did not mean. :-) Geogre 22:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Excuse me, didn't you mean "to be pedantic"? Bishonen | talk 22:09, 26 April 2006 (UTC).
How does one say "sweat peas" in Latin, anway? Would that be sudoris or desudo? And does anyone remember how to conjugate? legumen desudo-umsomekindofendinghere?
I was offering my help in a spirit of kindness and international understanding. With all y'all foreigners, you need somebody who speaks English real good to splain things. (In Latin, sweat peas are mictus.) Geogre 02:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Oh Geogre! There are times when I despair a Sweat Pea [4] is a beautiful fragrant, delicate little blossom, full of hope and beauty; how could you insinuate our own dearest Bishonen is not worthy of such a description - do you not have such terms of endearment, for a beautiful lady, in your part of the world? I suppose "Cactus" is the nearest one can get in! Giano | talk 09:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Yeah! Bishzilla spin.gif 10:54, 27 April 2006 (UTC).
Of course, in Old and Middle English, we have the Swæt pæ... -- ALoan (Talk) 11:04, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

This edit's for you, sorta!

Nature abhors a vaccuum, and I whore in a vaccuum, so, seeing that this header had no wording below it, I had to say something (that will be 2 pfennings, payable upon reading). Also, I was thinking that someone ought to create a category for Beaurocratic suicides for Edward Pilgrim and collect up similar victims of red tape. While there aren't that many in the UK, the US has had veterans waiting for benefits, mothers waiting for survivor benefits, farmers run off their land, etc., who might fit, and then China has had numerous examples. I'm sure the Soviet Union did, too, but no one knows who they were. If Zocky wanted to improve one of mine, he'd have been welcome to boost Edward Pilgrim. I still think there is a major story to be told that's not included yet. Geogre 00:34, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

This edit's for you, sorta!

Enjoy! Love,El_C 03:28, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Where are you?

I've just seen the sadliest thing I have not seen for ages - Your recent edits - there aren't any! I hope the trauma of the recent edits of the 25th have not been to much for you - it is still a good page (well quite good). Where are you ? Did we ought to drape your page in black crêpes and drapes and lillies. Don't go down to the catacombs just yet - Return to us Oh woe - where are you Bishonen? Giano | talk 06:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

PS: I have linked "crêpes" because some people, especialy those from Idaho (and obsessed with food) and the like will only think we have odd funerary customs in Sicily. Giano | talk 06:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
You big ham! Go join WikiProject Theatre this instant! I felt the need for a bit of a wikibreak, that's all — still do — after the, ha ha, "big day". If I have an FA on the Main Page again, I'll simply take it off my watchlist. It's a wiki, let the community look after it. Bishonen | talk 16:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC).
    • Its a blessed miracle! - she is returned to us! - Praise the Lord: "Jubilate Deo omnis terra" Giano | talk 17:29, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


Hey, there you are! Good to see you didn't go on vacation to Florida to escape the polar bears, or something. Maybe you, Geogre and anyone else around who feels knowledgeable could offer your opinion at User_talk:Mayumashu#English_professors_and_their_ilk on how to categorise people who write about English literature, and related species. u p p l a n d 17:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Translation of Andrée expedition article

Translating the Andrée expedition article, I am unsure about a couple of things - well, more than just a couple, and my "first draft translation" is not through more than a third of the article. Normally I would just cut out everything I see as even remotely unclear from the translation. In this case however, there is the possibility to ask you about it so I kept the unsecure stuff in the raw translation waiting for a comment or a change. Have a look at sv:Diskussion:Andrées polarexpedition if you feel like it. // Habj 17:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


Why on earth do they always break out when you least want to play? Your new bete noir is at Jimbo's talk page, explaining herself. AN/I has suddenly erupted for me, and I'm seeing statements that have to have come from a bottle or sleep deprivation, they're so bald in their inappropriateness, and that on two fronts, and at this point I decide to be a good citizen of the State of Georgia and take a hand in making sure that two politicians don't mess with each other via Wikipedia. Didn't I have some papers to grade? Didn't I have two finals to write? Grrrr. (I notice that the politician I'm 'helping' with is an alum of my old university. I didn't know that before. Heck, we may have even overlapped.) Wanna grade my essays? I'll pay $0.25 per paper. I'm sure the exchange rate works out to make that a lot of money, what with the wise economic policies of the US resulting in an ever more powerful dollar. Geogre 14:17, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Scan 'em and bring 'em on. Yeah, that "explaining herself" of yours has to come from sleep deprivation or dubiously legal substances, I agree. This is an interesting edit, running rather counter to some conclusions you had formed about the user. I go home now. Bishonen | talk 15:07, 27 April 2006 (UTC).

I was also referring to the other thing, but since I'm only a person to whom respect "is apparently" (wp:an/i, section 69.1) due, all may be handily dismissed. How can you tell someone hasn't any logic at all? He begins telling you that Jimbo likes him. Geogre 21:25, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Bish, just wanted to offer some, ah, moral support, in your disputes with a few new users lately. While I've been asking others to cut Wolfstar some slack (which she may or may not merit), I hope that isn't translating as toleration of the personal attacks against you. I appreciate your work and patience. Tijuana Brass¡Épa!-E@ 07:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks very much, brassy person. I can't say disputes with new users really bother me, and I never thought you endorsed any of the intemperateness (against anybody), but it's also nice to be told. Oh, come to think of it, though, the form "Bitchownen" does disturb me a little — what's up with that? The correct spelling of the word is obviously "Bitchonen"! (I've always been rather surprised that more angry users don't come up with that one, I would have thought it'd be the first, uh, zinger to suggest itself. ;-)) Bishonen | talk 07:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC).
Hey, I'm just waiting for someone to cleverly point out that my name ends in ass. Wwwhhhoooaaaa! Tijuana Brass¡Épa!-E@ 08:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
All I can think of when I see your name is the album "A Taste of Honey" and and now you bring up ass. An Ass of Honey? sheesh, I am scarred for life, as my daughter says when she hears something she didn't want to hear. KillerChihuahua?!? 10:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I'm gonna write that down... that'd make a good stage name for when I start my male modeling career. Tijuana Brass¡Épa!-E@ 10:27, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Uh, the first one, not "Scarred for Life." Tijuana Brass¡Épa!-E@ 10:27, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

"User:Geogre deleted Scarred for Life. Content was: Scarred for Life is a Thrashtrashhotnumetal band from Burkina Faso whose first album, Cut Me, Mick, took the world by storm in 2007. Led by singer Jonny Knowwhere and lead guitarist Blisterman Mbuto, the band's sound is like Yngwe Malmstrom meets Barbara Streisand. Check out their NÜ album at MySpace." Geogre 10:41, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

You people are ALL strange. Not that there's anything wrong with that! TB, you may want to hang on to that day job, (or maybe not, since I haven't seen pics.) ++Lar: t/c 12:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Strongly advise against promoting the common abbreviation of a lung ailment as your nick, Tijuana Brass. Consider Brass, TBrass, BrassOnes... avoid the whole Camille connotation. KillerChihuahua?!? 12:26, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't know. "Catch TB at Border's Bookstore in Market Square" might draw a crowd. "Be sure to catch TB at the local theater." "Oh, TB, you're simply incurable!" Then again, with "Brass," you do get "Tijuana Brass, Balls!" Geogre 13:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • holds up glass and drunkenly sings in magnificent baritone* "Libiamo, libiamo ne' lieti calici che la bellezza infiora, e la fuggevol ora s'inebri a volutta'..." *passes out* *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 15:33, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Love the baritone, you sound great. Unfortunately, I have no idea what you're singing. Something about beauty and the hour something drunkeness? Wake up, you can pass out after you translate. KillerChihuahua?!? 23:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
It's the drinking song from act I of La Traviata. The mention of TB and Camille inspired me momentarily. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 04:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

You again!


Hello there! Thanks for helping out a newbie on my talk page. And thank you very much for enlivening the place with festoons and balloons and the like (I had been enjoying that latter article when it was featured on the Main Page a few days ago, but hadn't bothered to check out who wrote it. You again!) Very best wishes, — mark 13:03, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

/me appreciatively adorns self with flower. Poor old Andrée, what a case! :-) Bishonen | talk 15:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC).

Spam answer box

Sure, I have a view and would endorse the view, but I don't think you're the main plaintif, so I'm disappointed that it's falling to you to do this. However, I certainly agree that if no one does, this is just going to happen every 6 months until the crack of doom or Wikidoom. Geogre 02:30, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

No, I most certainly am not. I feel absurd doing this, especially after already making myself ridiculous by posting two views on that RfC. But in an unguarded moment, and as part of an attempt to get some of the RfC creators to take it to ArbCom — since they are the plaintifs — I said I would if nobody else did. What's that? Sounds like a counterproductive ploy? Yeah. It seemed a good idea at the time, I don't really know why. Anyway. Thanks, Geogre. Bishonen | talk 02:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC).

I think we can get something together. --Cyde Weys 02:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll post a first bit tomorrow. Unless you want to? Bishonen | talk 02:53, 29 April 2006 (UTC).
Might as well just get it started. The main content is going to be coming in from lots of different peoples. --Cyde Weys 03:12, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm in. I can probably tighten up that section on Human so the arbitrators don't get brain cramps reading it, and I'll do some research on his edits for vios we didn't have in the RfC. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 09:39, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good, Jim. Bishonen | talk 10:45, 29 April 2006 (UTC).

Paging Ms. Milhous, Ms. Milhous to the ER please

Hey Bish, can I bug you to figure out what page number your Milhous p. ? citations are from in Theatre Royal, Drury Lane? I think I'm about ready to FAC it and that's one thing holding it back. Thanks. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, cool. The spamfest Geogre is referring to, and mocking up a bit of an RFAr in a text editor, took forever, I've no idea where the time went, but that's me, "inefficiency" is my proud middle name. Must go to bed now. But don't worry, the doctor is on call, as in I have the book right here (I love that book). I'll find the page numbers first thing tomorrow. Bishonen | talk 02:53, 29 April 2006 (UTC).
Well done, doctor. Thanks. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:17, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


I would certainly sign on to the RFAr. Hgilbert 02:48, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Looking good, then. Bishonen | talk 02:53, 29 April 2006 (UTC).
OK, I might as well post it, I've got it typed. Here goes.

To the spammees: I have posted a request for arbitration against Sam Spade here. Bishonen | talk 03:45, 29 April 2006 (UTC).

I've added a statement. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 15:13, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

RfD Needed

Hi -- ran across this in a random search - Murno Gladst. It appears to be another creative effort, though not nearly as charming as the last one we encountered. I can find no publications, and an internet search turns up the name only as a net ID. As I've never tagged anything for deletion, I'll leave this to your admin discretion. Best...........WBardwin 09:08, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm just a softy, see User talk:Murno gladst. What I'd like to know is what kind of shady business you're up to yourself, to keep running across these suspicious characters, and where were you when the toilet paper holders bloomed? And are you really not ready to take on adminship yet? Best, Bishonen | talk 10:44, 29 April 2006 (UTC).
Although I'm not adverse to sliding off the rails on occasion, I found these guys while doing a "civic duty". I try and give a half hour or so a week to a random article search -- placing categories and stub markers on otherwise unsorted articles. A small way of improving our index and search system. As to adminship, well -- my time here is limited due to illness in the family for the forseeable future. Maybe later. Thanks for the help. WBardwin 04:02, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Re the whole de-bureaucrating thing

Hi, I never came to thank you for the message you left for me a month ago when I stepped down from being a bureaucrat. Thank you for the things you said, it's good to know there are still plenty of good people about in this project. I do not see myself standing for bureaucrat again anytime soon though who knows what the future may bring! Thank you once again. -- Francs2000 09:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Sam Spade RFAr

Hi. I'd be happy to comment on my past experience with Sam, but I haven't had any first-hand dealings with him for quite a long time now, so I'm not sure I'm the best person to bring an RFA against him. Exploding Boy 15:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like you're just like me, then, EB. I'm pretty much the worst person. I've posted the RFAr anyway, as all the people who were the best person were too busy, I think, from the way the discussion on the RFC talkpage ended some days ago. If you wish, WP:RFAR is now open for adding a short statement or your sig. Best, Bishonen | talk 16:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC).

Hi Bishonen.

In response to your request to participate in the RfA concerning Sam Spade, unfortunately I think I must decline.

I had only been a Wiki user for a few days when I stumbled upon what I regarded as some irresponsible edits on the Socialism page. From there I discovered the ongoing dispute with Sam. I encountered his objectionable responses to people on the talk page and then looked up some of his other contentious edits, and decided that he did have, at the very least, an attitude problem, if he wasn't an outright troll. However I didn't add my voice to any of requests for endorsement because I am a new user and because I personally hadn't been involved in any dispute with Sam.

It was only when another poster asked for endorsement for an immediate referral to arbcom on the basis that Sam refused to discuss his conduct that I decided to add my endorsement, since it was clear up until that point that Sam was showing no willingness to co-operate at all.

At that point however Sam DID start to discuss his conduct - with me! - which not only kind of negated the reason for my endorsement, but also unwillingly drew me deeper into the dispute. I then tried to negotiate some sort of compromise between the parties but Sam's critics weren't interested and it seemed at that point that Sam again lost interest in the discussion himself.

So although I have certainly witnessed some of Sam's disruptive and disingenuous behaviour, at the same time I think it would be hypocritical of me to endorse arbcom when in fact I thought he did show at least some willingness to discuss his conduct. Don't get me wrong - I think a dispute as long running as this is probably best handled by arbcom anyway.

But basically, since I'm a new user and have not personally been involved in any dispute with Sam, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to take my involvement in the matter any further. I hope you can appreciate my feelings in that regard. I wish you luck with the RfA - Gatoclass 16:31, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, of course I appreciate them, thanks very much for taking so much trouble to explain! I wasn't making a request, really, just trying to find out if people were still interested. And I hope you'll feel absolutely free to weigh in in favor of Sam, if you think his critics are commenting unfairly, after your experience of him being more willing to discuss than some people give him credit for. That can be done either now or when/if the ArbCom has accepted the case and set up an evidence page. Best, Bishonen | talk 16:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC).

I'm not sure if I will participate but I'll probably keep an eye on proceedings. Thanks for explaining the procedure for me :) Gatoclass 23:57, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


I wanted to stop by and thank you for your constructive criticism of my RFA. It's helped, and is helping, to improve me as a wikipedian and an editor. I look forward to gaining your support in the future. Until then, keep on keepin on. SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 19:34, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


Bishonen, good move. Tony 09:33, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Glad you like it. Bishonen | talk 15:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC).

This is Moe

Made Moe a bit smaller, in the hope that Geogre will stop messing with the image.

Hello Bishonen, just thought I would let you know that I was leaving Wikipedia, but before I left, I finally got a picture of thyself of onto Wikipedia. (I know great timing for me to post a picture of myself, right?) This is my final gift to my friends. Later! PS. Try not to laugh to hard at my ugly mug ok? Moe ε 15:08, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Moe, you're looking very moe! I moved your long caption out, I prefer it to not be squashed into an obelisk. Sorry you're leaving. Bishonen | talk 15:23, 30 April 2006 (UTC).


Hi, I noticed that just about a year ago you added a section to Hairy Maclary that seems, on the fact of it, quite unusual. Could you provide some sources or references to flesh this out? Regards, Ziggurat 04:33, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I see what you mean. The Montesquieu reference is obviously no good at all without the expansion I seem to have been planning at the time. (So that's why Montesquieu is on my watchlist!) And I don't seem to have had much of a notion of encyclopedic tone then, as the mention of Sontag is blatant editorializing. I've removed the paragraph; thank you for spotting it. Bishonen | talk 07:59, 1 May 2006 (UTC).
  • Hohohohohoho Giano | talk 08:52, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
  •  :-D Still wearing that candle on your head, are you? Bishonen | talk 09:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC).


No, you are the inspiration...thank you for the kind words. BTW, what's your next FA? Or is it a secret?<:)--MONGO 07:10, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Heh heh... I'd love to start something new in the sandbox, and I even have some time right now, before grading starts, but it's hard to come up with a good subject. I'm looking at some squalid Swedish scandals of the 1950s, but with some doubt. "Squalid" is good as far as it goes, but not really enough on its own — I'll probably not end up doing one of those. I'll surely never find anything as colorful as Andrée again, no matter where I look! :-( How about you, any more glaciers? Bishonen | talk 09:25, 1 May 2006 (UTC).
Kinda...Glacier National Park (US)...proof read is always welcome...the article already existed, myself and Elkman have added substantially and created about 30 stubs related to the about another week I'll slip it over to peer review and see what comes up.--MONGO 11:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Instruction instructions

Hi! I don't really mind about your reverting my changes to the WIFA and FAC instructions, and it was nice for you to say "sorry" on the talk page, but I find a personal note on someone's user page to be a better method of defusing anger. Everyone has their own view, I suppose. One thing I did want to mention is that the two specific criteria I used as examples, and which you noted bothered you somewhat as seemingly random criteria to emphasize, are probably the most frequent deficiencies in FACs. Dozens and dozens proposed w/o inline citations and with inadequate leads. I had a previous disagreement w/Raul about inserting an instruction to check refs before submitting a FAC, but he disagreed that it should be emphasized. I still think it would save us all a lot of time, but if I'm in the minority on this, that's ok too. Thanks again for your feedback, and sorry if I screwed up the instructions. Kaisershatner 13:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

No, you didn't screw up at all, I appreciate your testing the waters. Those instructions shouldn't be static, or sacred, by any means. I think you did quite right to change them boldly — no need for any initial posting on Talk for that — but it's also part of the "Be bold" principle that you may get boldly reverted (once). And once you've been reverted, why not put your side of it on Talk? Anyway, you have absolutely nothing to apologize for, as I see you do! You do seem to be in a minority right now, but perhaps you can change people's minds, with a bit more explanation. Personally, though, I have to say I'm in love with the principle of keeping the instructions really, really concise, and technical rather than advisory or hortative (instead giving links to the FAC advice); and of not emphasizing any particular criteria. The trouble is everyone's got their favorite criteria, so that could really snowball. Instructions always tend to grow rather than shrink, especially if everybody's too polite to revert additions — look at Peer review for an example. Best, Bishonen | talk 14:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC).
If inline citations become a requirement, I'll never nominate an FA again. I will put parenthetical references in, provide editions, list page numbers, etc., but I will never put in inline citations (little footnoteries). (Bish, I got a wild hair and decided that I really, really wanted to re-read The Art of Political Lying by John Arbuthnot. I know that someone excerpted it for a textbook that I had when young, but I know not who, so I decided I wanted to find an edition of Arbuthnot. (Oh, it is to laugh!) So there hasn't been an edition of his Works since 1892, that's not a deterrent to people like me, is it? I went to alibris, and I can get a copy for $175. That's not that horrible, probably, esp. since the d*mned thing is a 1st ed. Why don't people train textual critics anymore? We need them! Why aren't I at a good rare book room? Oh, well.) Geogre 14:11, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Geogre, calm down, restrain the wild hair, "inline citations" is the superset of parenthetical references AND footnoteries. You're fine with the Harvard system or similar. I don't do a strict Harvard system, and you prolly don't, either, as it's not appropriate in our field, or customary, to put in all those publication years. "Smith, p. 79" is a perfectly fine parenthetical reference for us. Well, it's a bit old-fashioned — by today's lights, it ought to be "Smith 79" — but I avoid that, since it seems to make people think the book was published in A.D. 79. :-) Anyway, at ease, as you were, "inline citations" does not equal "footnotes"! Bishonen | talk 14:26, 1 May 2006 (UTC).


I just wanted to say that your entire intro is so candid, so informative and soo funny, I would give you a barnstar if I had one. :) Bo-Lingua 18:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


Thank you for extending the block of my gentleman caller. If only I could find such a well-educated man with such perfect manners in real life. I love the rotating tulip. My page has been missing an animated gif since the image cops deleted my hopping Pikachu. This is my 30,002nd edit, by the way Smile.png (brave smile). SlimVirgin (talk) 08:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Alloa, Alloa, alloa mosta beeyootifula lady, I ava chest-wig, gold effect medallion, and a vacency, just saya da word an my gondola is your gondola! Romeo from Palermo
Slim, bear in mind that he means "gold plate effect laquer medallion". Bishonen | talk 17:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC).
  • I wasa talkin to Slim nota you! You shooie away and talka to your olding Sweedy Lothario! Romeo from Palermo
Happy 30,000 jubilee! And get a load of the extension to 2050 that hit your gentleman caller four minutes later, heh heh. Freakofnurture is apparently more sure of the static IP business than I was. :-) Bishonen | talk 10:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC).

Could you copyedit my Swedencruft, please?

Bish, could you please take a look and remove any Swedishisms at Anders Uppström and Olaus Johannis Gutho, both of which I have nominated at Template talk:Did you know. u p p l a n d 17:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure, Tups, very soon. Bishonen | talk 17:55, 2 May 2006 (UTC).
Thanks! u p p l a n d 06:56, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I finally gave up over the haggling about the DYK entry on Uppström. I thought I had achieved a reasonably brief version of the entry but the powers that be seem intent on removing absolutely all the context. (Meanwhile I have written articles on cruftcruft and even more cruftcruft.) u p p l a n d 13:14, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Ghirlandajo is the powers that be? I don't think so, Tups, but whatever. It's a shame you gave up, but I can't say I blame you. :-( The janitor was the colorful part, I quite agree. Love the Cruft family! Bishonen | talk 14:00, 3 May 2006 (UTC).
Well, Ghirlandajo renominated the article after commenting out the discussion, so I went back there and insisted on my version, the one with the janitor. Against my better judgment. I really shouldn't care about this, I know... u p p l a n d 14:17, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I was delighted to see "that news reports X of Y University will take over Z post at A university" in DYK this morning. It's good to know that DYK is now also In the News. Geogre 09:17, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Note that both my pieces of Uppsalacruft managed to get on the main page on the same day. Of the various things Wikipedia wonders its readers if they know today, a full third concern manuscripts in the Carolina Rediviva! u p p l a n d 15:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Ha! Soon there will be room for nothing BUT Uppsala on the Main Page. When are you gonna FAC your university article? Bishonen | talk 16:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC).
So, wasn't it Jengod who was the head of DYK and in charge and running the circus? I take it that whoever it was, and it was someone able to exert some authority over the others, has gone on to greener pastures, because DYK has become a matter of an/i concern. Geogre 16:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


That's so sweet. I'm not sure that I can envision cohabiting with all the other folks on your list - do you have a nice big place for us all to stay? And then there's the matter of Mr. Spang.... :-) User:Needs some time to think about this... 16:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

There is? Oh, wow... User:On second thoughts, can I marry Mr Spang too? 22:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC).
Besides, she's already married to me. It was a secret ceremony. (No, I won't say which "she" I'm referring to.) Geogre 17:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I wish you both all the luck and fortune you deserve! Giano | talk 20:47, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
You mean "you five," not "you both." It's a plural marriage thing. In secret. In camera. In vino veritas. Geogre 01:22, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sam Spade


An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sam Spade. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sam Spade/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sam Spade/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Tony Sidaway 00:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Possible fruitful avenue

I noticed that an RfAr had been opened regarding Sam Spade. In my opinion, it's long overdue. I long ago stopped trying to keep the Hypnosis article free of Sam's bizarre claims about hypnosis and Egyptian healing trances... but I've always suspected that a CheckUser request to check Sam's IP against that of User:Hyp and User:CGameProgrammer might just get some interesting results. -- Antaeus Feldspar 01:46, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Could you request a CheckUser check based on the specific reasons you have for thinking so, or alternatively tell me what the reasons are so I can request it? The CheckUser people will only perform checks if you have fairly specific suspicions (though naturally you don't need to have something conclusive). Bishonen | talk 02:12, 5 May 2006 (UTC).
I have fairly specific suspicions that one or both of them was actually a Sam sockpuppet. Each of them showed up abruptly and with their very first edit made a declaration on the talk page about how very bad the article was in the version not preferred by Sam. According to Hyp, we should wait for a "more expert writer" to take an interest; CGameProgrammer also thinks "a real hypnotherapist [should] eventually rewrite it" because "If someone wants to learn about hypnosis from this encyclopedia, they are obviously not primarily interested in the arguments against it; they are interested in it itself." These are both arguments that Sam had been making previously. In Hyp's case, it was his only contribution ever; CGameProgrammer, five months after that sole edit to Talk:Hypnosis, started sporadically making posts elsewhere (never again to Talk:Hypnosis), so my suspicions that he was a Sam sockpuppet were slightly decreased (not fully allayed, however.) -- Antaeus Feldspar 14:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Sam has said that he keeps socks and keeps them alive. Sporadic edits, then none, and then sporadic edits again would be the very thing to duck the limelight and make a sock look like a foot. Geogre 14:57, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Please check your e-mail, AF. Geogre, you realize all the Outside Views have been removed now that the request is accepted? Only people who signed as "involved" are left. There's a logic to that, but it's a pity, since yours was nice and punchy. I don't know whether you'd like to re-post it and thereby self-identify as involved? (Compare the page instructions). Bishonen | talk 16:28, 5 May 2006 (UTC).
One can move comments removed to the talk page of the case, right? Anyone can comment there, involved or no, I thought, and I believe ArbComm members indicated they do read that stuff and give it consideration... Hope that helps (I have no dog in the hunt regarding Mr. Spade... I just stalk bishie a bit from time to time, and this caught my eye!). ++Lar: t/c 16:36, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
You too? (Yeah, my view and the other "outside" views are on the talk page now. I don't know if I want to be in, as I've almost never interacted directly with SS, but the reason for that is exactly what I discussed in my outside view. I don't talk to SS because I know what will happen, and so his typographical halitosis, as it were, clears out a space around his interests. We all carve out our areas, so that's no crime, but the way he does it by resorting to personal references isn't cricket.) Resolved: if I'm not as eat up next year as this, I will put my name forward for ArbCom. I thought about it seriously this year, but I knew I couldn't count on time, and I hate going through the icky to find the nut. Geogre 18:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


I am sorry. I made a typo. I meant to say "if rofl is not a personal attack "i" don't know what is." Sorry for the misunderstanding. Please accept my apology.--Bonafide.hustla 05:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC) actually never mind. I read the wrong post. :)--Bonafide.hustla 05:55, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflic) There was no typo, you did write "i don't know what is". I wasn't quoting you, but using my own words: you call yourself "I", I call you "you". My point wasn't that you'd said something bad to me — you hadn't — but that the statements you were complaining about were in no way personal attacks. (Especially not ROFL.) If you think they were, I hope you grow a thicker skin, or life on the wiki is going to be very painful for you. Your foolish remarks about El C , on the other hand, were personal attacks. If you think they weren't, I hope you acquire a keener sense of what is due to others, or you'll keep running into trouble. You are still banned from WP:AN and WP:ANI. If you want to try to get the community to rescind the ban, you may post in the same thread one more time, to apologize fully to El C and to undertake not to waste the time and patience of the admins' noticeboard the way you've been doing. Try to show that you understand what the problem is, and people may be lenient. Bishonen | talk 06:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC).
Sigh... I see you have replied to me on your own page also. Never mind, then. Bishonen | talk 06:11, 5 May 2006 (UTC).

man you're kinda funny. well, for the record, i did know how to use the diff. link, i just didn't know there's a difference between the two. i guess then your comments on my talkpage was apparently made in good faith (although the wording was a lil angry) but anyway, about my talkpage, i'm gonna remove the comment in a sec. so yeah, i mean i'm not trying to be a "dick", but there is a bit of a double standard existing on wiki. Like, when I unknowingly removed Guanaco's name from the mediation committee because he had been desysopped (in good faith for i didn't know non-admin can be mediators), he was like seems like your edit is based on personal vendetta (Guanaco previously blocked me). It's sorta frustrating when ppl always look at your block log and stuff to determine whether your a good/bad person. 'cause i mean sometimes even if you're tryin to contribute, others interpret it as bad faith. well anyway just to letcha know. keep up the good work.--Bonafide.hustla 07:10, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think you probably do mean well more often than it appears, but I do think you need to try harder to distinguish between things that are really different, and only look the same on the surface. For instance, you can accuse somebody of a personal vendetta for good reasons or bad reasons, and your reasons for speaking like that of El C were far-fetched, also insulting, also against common sense. Using the same term as somebody else doesn't make it all right, when the background is totally different. Anyway, you keep speaking of my post on your page, but I hope you noticed that it was a post from WP:ANI? I posted it there first, so the community can object to my unilateral ban if they want. (But nobody has so far.) Anyway, I'm glad you thought my comment on Essjay's page funny, it gives me hope. :-) Peace. Bishonen | talk 07:28, 5 May 2006 (UTC).

Infinity0's userpage

Your an admin right? Could you block the anon who just vandalized Infinity's page twice in 5 minutes? Their entire list of contributions has been vandalism of his userpage. The Ungovernable Force 07:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Funny you should ask, I just did. :-) Bishonen | talk 07:43, 5 May 2006 (UTC).
yeah, I just saw that. The Ungovernable Force 07:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Arghhh... my edit wouldn't go through at first. Wiki is up-down-up-down here in Euprope right now. But i blocked him just before! :-) Bishonen | talk 07:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC).

Sorry sir. I would hate to be put on fatigues or given a detention. :) ElectricRay 11:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Cranky of a morning

My counter-argument was a bit ill tempered. Sorry about that. I think I'm getting sort of exhausted with the hours I'm keeping (waking at 4:30 AM, going in to grade, and then seeing thin envelopes from the bank arrive in the mail). I'm also getting headaches like Oswald in Ghosts, but without having had the pleasure that would have led to the condition. Geogre 14:39, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

LOL, yes, the rarely seen full "Come now" mode. It's fine. Sorry you feel bad, sweetheart. Bishonen | talk 16:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC).

The thing is, I caught up. I actually caught up on grading. That only leaves me with 45 term papers (8-12 pp each) and 25 final papers (3-5 pp each) and 80 final exams to grade by Monday or Tuesday. (Ok, Wednesday, actually.) If I can do that, I can have my pay in hand by Friday, which will mean a happy spending spree before being sent up to a research library to do fact checking. The headaches are awful. Geogre 16:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and the "Oh, come now!" wasn't entirely undeserved. I needed you to reassure Bunchofgrapes, and I wasn't lying. If I was lying, I sure didn't know about it (and neither did my own sainted professors). When I typed in those numbers, above, it started to look depressing again. I want to outsource my grading to Bangalore. Geogre 17:03, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Nobody thought your pants were on fire, Geogre. But I remain mostly believing that the entire area of what theatre may have been legal in London by whose authority and at what time was a grey cloud even at the time, never mind you, me, or your professors trying to figure it out through the faulty lens of history. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
You can believe that, but it wasn't gray. Plays were illegal. Players could be arrested. Additionally, there was official censorship of the presses, so play-like works wouldn't be printed, either. Puritans were never known for being tolerant, and they were at their most intolerant during the interregnum. Geogre 09:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


I've removed some threaded dialog and renamed your section on the RJIII application. Please feel free to restore material relevant to the case, but bear in mind that the arbitrators don't want to have to read through threaded discussion. --Tony Sidaway 19:03, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


Just wanted to say thanks for reverting my user page - I was busy trying to work out how to deal with the vandal. Really appreciate it! Libatius 10:19, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

My pleasure — 'twas a whole rampage! I love quickblock and rollback. :-) Bishonen | talk 10:23, 6 May 2006 (UTC).
Thanks also Art LaPella 14:31, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

A new cat skin!

Ha-ha! I have a new cat for my user page. Bet you're envious. Geogre 16:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Herr Bombastiche

Thanks for the message, no I had not seen it. I avoid him whenever possible life is too short. I am now a new person avoiding all controversy, troubles and strife. I am now growing my hair, smoking weed and writing only on abstact articles. Peace! Giano | talk 16:47, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a couple of minutes?

Hi Bishonen. Ok, I admit the Sw. Wikipedia Notice Board didn't work out so well when you asked for a favour recently, --- I myself have been busy recently with administrative stuff such as deleting loads of NowCommons images, maintenance of the Commons server and similar ungrateful stuff. However, I'm going to start writing some proper articles now, and I started with Malmö, Skåne, and the such. May continue with Stockholm and Gothenburg.

Would you mind having a look at Malmö and see if there is something seriously lacking in the structure or in the information? If there is anything disturbing in the language, you are welcome to fix that too...

Reg. Fred-Chess 17:44, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Malmö looks good, including the English, though perhaps a light grammar copyedit might also be in order. I'll try to find the time for it. (I mean, you have to admit that those would be the famous Swedish couple of minutes, as in "Just a minute [leaves the phone for half an hour]" At least they would be for me. I'm slow.) I'm sure you know much more than I do about what's supposed to be in a city article, Fred, it's not my strong suit by any means. No, I don't see anything lacking. Though I can't remember ever seeing a line of references immediately below a section, in the middle of an article; what's that about? Bishonen | talk 16:20, 7 May 2006 (UTC).

Recommended reading for the Salon book club

Have you read Sunday Times Golden Globe Race (up for FAC, User:Johantheghost's work mostly)? It's really entertaining. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:26, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I love lurking, you find the coolest things. What a story! ++Lar: t/c 12:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC) (who never wants to sail anywhere by himself)
I think it needs help in a paragraph (attrition), and the maps need to be embiggened. Otherwise, it's a great story. Geogre 13:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC) (Currently south of Baffin Island and making 300 miles per day by paddle.)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Infinity0


An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Infinity0. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Infinity0/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Infinity0/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Tony Sidaway 13:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Bishonen: she's everywhere! Geogre 15:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, didn't you see my exchanges with several charmingly courteous users a day or two ago, with the name Infinity0 getting mentioned a lot? Ye olde chivalry lives on and no error. But I'm really only a proxy in this case. Now watch me go proxy on the evidence page. Ubiquitous. 15:14, 7 May 2006 (UTC).
P.S. I was interested to see that you at first took this for your page. :-) Bishonen | talk 15:18, 7 May 2006 (UTC).
I know, I know. More rumor of sockpuppets, etc. I just hit the wrong link from my watchlist. As for you, stray puppies beware! (Someone needs to be nice to newbies. Lord knows I'm not.) Geogre 15:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
We've noticed. (Grin, duck, run)... (I still have scars...) But you're not the ogre you want everyone to think you are, as I mentioned in my RfA... ++Lar: t/c 16:12, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Ah. :-) That's a secret, dammit! On the other hand, for blocking without warning and wanting every passtime and game deleted, I'm your man. You can generally tell when I'm ticked off, because I begin getting very, very diplomatic and measured. If you see very careful language, I'm about to go ape. Geogre 18:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


I don't understand, why this RfC is not yet approved, since there are already two users who certified it. Besides one of the other users who could certify this RfC is blocked. How is he supposed to certify? Raphael1 21:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Who is the other user? --Cyde Weys 21:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Raphael1, I explain that in detail in my statement "View of the validity of this RfC by Bishonen" on the RfC itself, please take a look at that. Anyway, why did you remove the part of the RfC template — the instructions at the top of the page — that tell you about the need for the two people certifying to have attempted dispute resolution first? Please read those instructions now, if you haven't already; I've restored them to the top of the RfC page,, where they should have been all along.
How is he supposed to certify? He isn't. A blocked user isn't supposed to do anything on the wiki. If you need one more, and that particular person will be blocked for more than 48 hours, then you'll have to find somebody else. Why would he be the only other person who could certify it? It doesn't have to be somebody involved, it only has to be somebody who has tried to resolve the dispute. As I explain in my statement, you'd much better try to find someone to try to resolve the dispute who isn't personally involved, anyway. Bishonen | talk 23:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC).

Courtroom conversions

I'm concerned about a courtroom conversion. One reason that there isn't much prosecutorial evidence being presented is that the bile is on one side only. No one wants to "get" or "get dirt" on the defendant, so, when he stops editing and calling names and trying to smear a person, that person wants to forget the whole thing and hope for the best. This is the behavior that has led to attrition. This is the behavior that has led to his "owning" a considerable number of articles. Indeed, in the evidence page, the defendant is saying that everything has been taken care of. Why, look! no insults since the RfC! In other words, "I stopped for the time being, so I'm innocent, and there is no case to bring." This is repentance before the bar. If it's repentence of heart is another matter, and for that we have to consider the past, consider the history. So long as everyone else is less bilious, less angry, and less interested in making issues personal, the defendant will get another chance and another and another, and a never-ending stream of new users will hit upon a controversial page and get ground into the dust by him, as all the experienced users simply stay away, ceding part of the project to his corner. Geogre 02:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

re Sam Spade arb case

Bishonen, how long does an arbitration case actually stay open? I can't find any reference to timespan in the docs.

I must say I'm very suprised to see you are the only person to lodge some evidence so far (especially since, as you said yourself, you are not one of the more recent victims of his edit wars). What happened to all those other people who were complaining long and loud about Sam's behaviour? Gatoclass 03:24, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for writing. I don't actually think there's any great hurry, the cases stay open kind of ad hoc. But, yes, I'm a little surprised too. I hope a few people are working on it. If not, it's their choice (shrug). If you check out the post just above, you'll see that Geogre is concerned too, and has a theory to account for it (wouldn't you know it ;-)). I hope he's wrong, that's all. Bishonen | talk 05:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC).
It's a good theory, unfortunately. Geogre 10:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Nobel Templates deletion

Hi! Someone has recommended that the templates of Nobel Prize winners be deleted. Will it be ok if you just post your opinion at templates for deletion? Thanks, really appreciate it. =) Joey80 06:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


Please have a look at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Campaign_to_force_the_use_of_honorifics. Thanks Arniep 11:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, sheesh, another one? Is there a more pathetic creature than a duke-lover? Thanks for letting me know. Bishonen | talk 13:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC).
  • I couldn't agree more. Personally, I've always preferred a Marchese over a Duke any day. Giano | talk 13:18, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I prefer a march hare. Geogre 13:26, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Don't you need sultanas for a fruitcake? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, Mr. Tos, the Italian immigrant who came up with the recipe for Claxton Fruitcake Bakeries did not use any birds at all for the confection, although, being Italian, he did like nuts. Geogre 15:35, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Well you can save your sarcasticals because ALoan is going to ban him for a very long time indeed! Then he'll be sorry. I note also your sarcastical comment on commas Bishonen, and you are woofing up the wrong tree there completely. Lots of people from arownd the world have problem writing English commas, because English is a language that has very badly constructed sentences - just look at some of the problems I have squeezing in the odd fullstop. Thank goodness I am grounded in the Latin tongue, and not forced to permanently converse in a language invented by screaming peole painted blue and wode - Yes, I am coming to Swedish next. A very new language I beleive! Giano | talk 13:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


Bishonen am I right in thinking you have the power to block IP's? If so, there are a couple of vandals over at the Joseph Stalin page you might like to scrub Gatoclass 13:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I warned the little guy; the big fish had just been blocked. Bishonen | talk 14:13, 9 May 2006 (UTC).

Thanks :) Gatoclass 14:28, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

A question for you

Hey, you probably don't know who I am, but I'm - or I was trying to be - a friend of User:Thewolfstar's. Don't worry, she didn't send me to talk to you or anything. She's blocked and that's that as far as I'm concerned. In fact, I was astonished by the lenience shown her, what with being unblocked half a dozen times or so by different administrators.

What I wanted to ask you was, is there any way this could have been prevented? This is the second or third time I've seen a newbie editor (well, *ahem*, newer than me ^_^;) flame out and get blocked over personal attacks and rude behavior. I spent quite some time, and probably several thousand words, trying to advise Maggie against doing the sorts of things she did, which as far as I can tell she went right on doing.  :(

The next time I see this start to happen with a new user, is there something you can recommend I do, other than just pointing them at WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA and praying they read them? Kasreyn 03:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Bishonen knows the answer to this but Bishzilla, her nefarious alter-ego, won't let her tell the rest of us. Because we sure don't know. Personally, I don't think the PAs are really the root of it. Rather, it's the sure belief that one knows the truth, so one's edits are by definition good, right, just, and NPOV. Pointing at WP:CIVIL or WP:NPA is trying to put a band-aid over one symptom of this syndrome, and it rarely works. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:44, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I saw that Esperanza was mentioned/involved somewhat. Unfortunately they seem to be having their own problems over the past few days. Are there any other groups around like that?
I know that when I needed help editing I put the 'Help' template on my page and someone showed up like magic. It would be nice if there was an equivalent group for people who need help with 'WP:There *really* is no cabal' and 'WP:Please don't bite the old editors either'.
Sigh. As with Kasreyn, I don't have any complaints and I'm not going to call Bish a rouge (sic) admin, it just seems like that could have gone better. Is there a policy or guideline or even essay anywhere that says newbies who are having trouble shouldn't listen to people who have been blocked a lot for causing trouble?
Yeah, that bugged me a lot. As soon as she started openly warring with admins, a horde of freakin' vultures descended on her talk page to tell her no, you're in the right, they're all wrong, anyone who tells you you're wrong is in on the cabal, but us? We're your friends. Bitter jerks. And naturally, when I tried to suggest that TINC, she immediately brushed me off. It's a shame. Kasreyn 08:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Maybe we need to start suggesting that everyone read Fred's (?) essay on WP:NOT therapy. Goodnight, everyone. May all of your wikistress levels drop below the red.
Ah-ha! End of pointless existential maundering and a comment actually aimed at Bishonen! May I ask, why does one of the less-stressed levels of your meter turn you 'Dutch'? 'Godzilla', 'Zen', 'Opinionated', 'Full Deck' and 'Illegal Smile' all make sense to me, but 'Dutch'- Not so much. MilesVorkosigan 06:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Nothing interesting, sorry. "Dutch" was just an unsuccessful attempt to entertain a Dutch editor, and in its turn inspired the illegal smile. Maybe I'll get round to putting something better some day; the Zen Moods are a bit of a time capsule, as changes to them are beyond my photoshopping skills and I need to ask my son who lives with me ( he's not 18, you know that's crazy talk!) to help. Or Geogre, who has fixed up one of them. But neither of them loves such chores. Bishonen | talk 19:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC).
Let me know if you want them edited, I can help take the load off the little tyke and Geogre. KillerChihuahua?!? 19:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
The Dutch manage to have a legal illegal smile. [BTW, folks, as for preventing the flame out, one of Geogre's Laws is "Wikipedia is not a venue for negotiating ultimate truth, revelation, or the secret history of the world." Wikipedia is a summary of what other people say, with the most "other people" beating the least "other people." It's not a place to set the record straight, so to speak, and anyone who comes to the project with an idea that they're going to fix the world's perceptions of, oh, one of the major political parties, or, oh, some ethnic group, or, oh, some world language, is going to end in frustration or a block. Wikipedia is no place for missionary zeal or messianic impulses. Geogre 10:37, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Note that there is a new Geogre's Law: #9: "If I don't close my parentheses and brackets, I can never die." Geogre 12:45, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Auntie Bishzilla's Advice Column

Auntie Bishzilla's Advice Column

Hey, Miles. Sorry, I only have a Bishzilla answer to give about your valiant efforts to present TWS with a clue. It's the first impulse of the best users... but, sadly, I'm coming to the conclusion that Aggressive Clueless Newbie Syndrome is a serious condition with poor prognosis. :-( I've never seen an ACNS case in remission. And there's a logic to it: they discover the site and that Anyone Can Edit. They read the articles on their favorite subject --politics, or religion, or their pet branch of pseudoscience--astrology, Bigfoot, Cryptozoology. They see that the articles are full of "lies", and set out to "fix" them. They're happy and feel useful, and expect praise; imagine the shock when their edits won't stick because an obvious liberal mafia or sceptics conspiracy or atheist cabal VANDALIZES their work! And if the user was already in a bit of a troubled state when they arrived, well... I won't go on. But nothing good follows, and I agree with Unca Bunch that Knowing the Truth has a lot to do with it. The nightmare outcome is when these "contributors" stick around for so long that they become familiar with policy and are able to wikilawyer it to some effect, as opposed to brandishing irrelevant guidelines at random the way TWS does. Because then you have... shudder ... the rare but monstrous Aggressive Clueless But Wiki-Savvy Old-Timer. Bishonen | talk 17:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC).

Dear Bishonen (the sublime),
Yes, I could see the progression too. It was like a train wreck in slow motion. That's why I hadn't been involved for a while. TWS was editing in good faith *as she knew it*, but... Yeah.
Be careful of mentioning that last name. ACBWSOTs can hear it when you speak their name aloud in the light of a computer monitor. MilesVorkosigan 18:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Haha. Click on the link and you'll see how used he is to hearing it in Bishzilla's dulcet tones. Bishonen | talk 18:19, 10 May 2006 (UTC).


Thanks for dropping a line on my page concerning Thewolfstar's AN/I thread. I spent the past two days driving from North Carolina to Texas, which was the longest break I've had from Wikipedia for a while... sad. At any rate, it seems that the issue has already been settled. I agree with the admins and support the decision (although I hope to review in a few months if possible), but at the same time, it comes with disappointment. She had potential to make some great contributions, but... got distracted. At any rate, I appreciate your seeking community consensus before indef blocking, and taking the time to notify concerned parties. There's probably an admin barnstar somewhere that I'd give you for doing all that, but I'm too lazy to track it down. Just consider yourself having received it, along with my thanks. Have a good one. Tijuana Brass¡Épa!-E@ 07:42, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

A Barnstar!
The Barnstar of Diligence

For diligently pursuing every means possible in attempting to deal with a disruptive new user, and following every step in gaining input from the community prior to enacting serious measures. KillerChihuahua?!? 13:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - Well done. ++Lar: t/c 13:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

LOL. Thanks, guys, for the compliments and the star and the ....hmmmm ... ahhh... the lovely boils. Bishonen | talk 17:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC).

Thanks for voting on my RfA


More vandalism

Bishonen, sorry to bother you again - I don't really know whether you are the appropriate person to point out vandalism to - but there's a guy who has been repeatedly dropping a block of rightwing drivel onto the Socialism and Criticisms of Socialism page over the last few days.

I just checked his edit history and it appears he's been deleting entire Wiki pages and vandalizing others. He's changed his IP at least once but this is his latest version: Here's a link to his edit history . Check the edits to the Helen Clark page, the Wiki Sock Puppety page, and the Egyptian Revival architecture page to name but three. Thanks, Gatoclass 04:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I may not always be here, indeed, and I sleep sometimes, so WP:VIP is the best place to report straight vandalism, it's supposedly watched round the clock. Unfortunately that won't do much good with there's not a lot anyone can do about about an IP-hopping POV-pusher who operates out of the University of Auckland...! An IP like that can only be blocked very briefly. That's why you see a bunch of experienced users, such as CBerlet, simply reverting the pest. As long as controversial articles are well watched, that's what we can do to keep bastards like this at bay. The next step would be reporting him to the university. For not-so-obvious cases of vandalism--"bad users"--report on WP:ANI. Busy page, though, and everybody hates dealing with these IPs, so you may not always get much joy there. And if you're an IRCer, use #wikipedia on Freenode if you come across anything that needs real fast intervention, such as serial page-move vandalism. See Wikipedia:IRC. ("Conversations are occasionally off-topic": to get familiar with the channel, join #wikipedia any time for a chat about human sexual anatomy.) Bishonen | talk 06:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC).

Dammit I thought I had the guy by the short and curlies. Obviously if he's posting from Auckland Uni there is no way of knowing whether he is responsible for the vandal edits.

However, he does also post under another nic and IP, they are Michael40 and I'm guessing the last is his home IP.

If he isn't perpetrating outright vandalism I'm not sure what to do about him. What he is doing is making continual, blatantly POV rightwing edits on a number of articles, including Socialism, Criticisms of Socialism, Hugo Chavez, Criticism of Hugo Chavez[[5]] etc. I note also that while he was lecturing us on allegedly trying to "filter...valid, relevant, verifiable" information, he hypocritically went to the Central Intelligence Agency page and whitewashed [[6]] a number of well established facts from the "Historical Operations" section.

The problem I have is that I don't know how to deal with a user like this. He isn't an outright vandal, so I can't get his IP blocked at the Wiki page you mentioned above. But he's clearly inserting outright POV/scuttlebutt into articles. And while he's responded on the Talk pages a couple of times, it hasn't stopped him in the least from repeatedly inserting his POV rants into articles regardless of consensus. Basically he just ignores consensus.

Now my understanding of Wiki is that we are supposed to make every effort to integrate a new user into the system, but this guy is showing little if any interest in co-operating. I'm also pretty sceptical, quite frankly, that someone with as clear an agenda as this can ever be integrated into a consensus framework.

So what do I do? Do I just continue to revert him, hoping he eventually goes away? (this seems problematic to me for a number of reasons). Should I get a formal or informal RfC started on the guy? I mean, what's the usual way of dealing with this sort of problem?

Thanks, Gatoclass 10:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

There is a... Wikipedia:Wikipedia abuse or something like that... where school vandalism is supposed to be reported. It was announced on AN/I. Geogre 10:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for your watchful eye and attention in the recent AOL/IP issue. That was a particularly bad sequence of blocks. I appreciate your efforts. Best wishes. WBardwin 08:50, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I had to give up and go to bed, W. I turned the horrible mess over to #wikimedia-tech and I see even they had a lot of trouble with it. I am darkly suspicious of the situation at User talk:David Shield. Take a look at the message I just left there! Last night no doubt it was difficult for people to locate the original block in amongst all the autoblockery...but I see it, and now I've linked to it on David Shield's page. Bishonen | talk 09:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC).
100 autoblocks! Almost terrorist in impact. I'm sure that other responsible users were impacted as well. WBardwin 09:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
You mean people who don't encourage nihilartikels ? :-P Bishonen | talk 09:22, 11 May 2006 (UTC).
Response to your message - Obviously I'm not as good at searching the block log as I thought. When I first responded I couldn't find anything with that user's name on it. I assumed that meant that the IP had been blocked automagically and that you had to be an admin to see it (for IP privacy reasons).
It was another user who said the block was clearly a mistake. I just saw the 'helpme' message and was willing to assume good faith. Once I realized Danny was involved I decided that it probably wasn't something I wanted to be involved with :) (I've read the mailing list).
Based on editing pattern, you might check the history of User:IsraelBeach. MilesVorkosigan 13:37, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, it's a redlink now, so maybe you won't check it. Blocked for WP:NLT and oblique maybe or maybe not physical threats.  :/ Wait a second, 100 *different* autoblocks? Does that mean 100 different attempts to edit from the same IP? That's a bit obsessive. I'm better out of it. MilesVorkosigan 13:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) It looked like somebody did just that, with a minute or two between tries, and a new hash number each time. They're easy to unblock, but when new ones come in at that rate...:-( Yeah, we'd all be better out of it, except that WBardwin apparently doesn't have a choice. Anyway, don't feel bad, that log has the worst search function — I ended up simply reading it. Here's a better autoblock search tool, courtesy of User:Pgk (though that still wouldn't have found the original block).
I didn't know about User:IsraelBeach, he seems like a lovely person. Apparently the userpage was moved to User:Israelbeach and then deleted (us superhumans can still see the history, kindly fall down and worship). User talk:Israelbeach is still there. Bishonen | talk 14:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC).
I was wondering if I needed to notify anyone that another sock appears to have made it through, but one of them has already vandalized Woggly's page and the other has posted a message on Danny's page complaining and threatening him over the deletion of the puppet-master's vanity article. I suppose it's a silly question, but how can he think that's going to turn out well? MilesVorkosigan 13:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Emancipation Proclamation

Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty, I'm free at last! Geogre 14:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello there, glad to hear it! As if to keep global incarceration constant, shades of the prisonhouse begin to close upon the growing girl. But first, tonight: to the Threepenny Opera! Bishonen | talk 14:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC).

I went on IRC last night to tell you that I had discovered that I'm immortal. The way I figure it, if this last session didn't kill me, nothing can. If you're off to see the Street Urchin and Jenny Diver and all the rest sing about that notorious German cuthroat Captain Macheath, that at least is some recompense for future burdens. Me, I'm just waiting for paychecks. I endured their crime, and now I want pay for my time. Geogre 14:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

  • Urgh! I'm immortal like Sisyphus, maybe. I had forgotten how much I hate low molecular weight heparin shots. Geogre 16:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
  • At least I got paid. Now my bank will fumble and sniff the check for a few days before they agree that I got paid. Geogre 12:34, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
    • [Sings] Spendin' da dough, spendin' da dough! Geogre 13:15, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


File:HK Disneyland Goofy n fans.jpg
Yes...MONGO as Goofy...have you seen him? That's me on the left.--MONGO 02:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Awwww, why couldn't MONGO be the one on the other end of the line? Geogre 16:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Autoblocker on the rampage

Hi Bishonen. I've been hit by the autoblocker again -- not a dull moment. Information below if you get a minute. Sorry to muddy your page with someone else's unimaginative language. WBardwin 06:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Your user name or IP address has been blocked from editing. You were blocked by Curps for the following reason (see our blocking policy): "Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "I'M THE MOTHERFUCKING JUGGERNAUT BITCH!!!". The reason given for I'M THE MOTHERFUCKING JUGGERNAUT BITCH!!!'s block is" Your IP address is

Thank you -- got to me before I even sent you a note. Appreciate your help. WBardwin 06:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Everything seems ok -- did a couple of minor edits without being nabbed. Nice little user name -- huh? I'll have to wash out my talk page in a day or two. Thanks again. WBardwin 06:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


Have you seen the recent John Warburton (herald) article? There is more on him in the ODNB, which actually names the cook. u p p l a n d 16:10, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

User Tarret

I see you restored some deleted content on User talk:Tarret and left a message about it. I happened to be watching his talk page because a comment of mine was summarily removed from there as well, recently. It seems he likes to remove people's comments from his talk page, always marking them as minor edits, without responding to them — and apparently he sometimes does so as an anon edit. It seems very rude to me, but whatever... - dcljr (talk) 17:18, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I never got any reply from him either. The IP sometimes does rather worse edits, removing content from other pages. I will keep an eye out for vandalism (thanks for reminding me) but there's nothing I can do about mere determined rudeness. Bishonen | talk 17:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC).

Help with RfC

Hi Bishonen... I finally posted a Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Kven users RfC. The page is currently covered by statements from the problematic user in question and I don't know how to proceed. I asked Uppland for some input but he didn't respond. Since I know you have experience with RfCs and dispute resolution, I would just like to ask for a suggestion how to proceed?

Thanks, Fred-Chess 17:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for not responding on this previously. First of all, I have been pretty sure this user is the same as the one creating trouble on other Finland-related pages, such as Jacob De la Gardie, and I believe the RFCU confirmed that, but you and Mikkalai don't seem to agree. Second... well, I just feel that with all the bullshit, I wonder why this user can't just be indefinitely blocked. Why do we have to go through all the trouble? (Partly rhetorical question.) u p p l a n d 18:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
OMG what a mess. Ping me on IRC, Fred, and I think we can simplify this, indeed. And if you've got time to join us, Tups, it would be perfect. Bishonen | talk 18:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC).

Now you've done it

Jimbo hates junior highers like you. And "Schvatjester". —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Masquerading? Why Bish, whatever can you mean? (It's too bad there isn't an emoticon for 'nod nod, wink wink, say no more')
How was the Threepenny Opera? MilesVorkosigan 00:04, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
An orgy of low-lives. Bishonen | talk 00:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC).
(edit conflict)From your POV, is that a superlative or a complaint?
Before edit conflict -
Sorry, I should have remembered there is no irony on the internet. :) No, I'm not assuming GF, we both know exactly who that is. My fault: Even in real life people think I'm serious when I'm trying to make a joke.
I'm still willing to try to hammer in WP:NLT and WP:NPA. Who knows, maybe the horse will learn how to sing. MilesVorkosigan 00:15, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
He's assuming Girl Friend? Geez. Bishonen's being claimed by all these men. I'm telling you hounds: we got married in a secret ceremony to prevent our warring families from preventing it, and the Duke had an order that anyone disturbing the peace would be banishéd. (I couldn't resist making a few comments. I know I'm not supposed to have tripped over, etc., but that was just irresistable.) Geogre 02:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Ahem. 'Good Faith'. I don't have a degree in literature *or* a chest wig, so I'm just a bystander here. MilesVorkosigan 16:30, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
You have no idea how rarely those things work on getting girls, so when one finally does fall for it, it's natural to get protective. Geogre 18:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
which? Chest wigs or literature degrees? In your case, I'm thinking both? ++Lar: t/c 18:55, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Exactly. Actually, my chest wig is prescription. After all those surgeries I had, the doctors prescribed it for the sake of the public's digestion. Geogre 20:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC) (open heart, appendectomy, cholecystectomy, open heart)

Listening to Admins

Yeah, I know I should listen to Admins, it's just it kinds make me mad since he said it was just an opinion that God made the earth, when the Theory of Evolution is an opinion too, it's just someone else's opinion. Uweretheone 00:43, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

For no reason at all

Tiktaalik Devonian transition fishapod (lobefinned fish)

So there. ++Lar: t/c 01:36, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

That still wouldn't be a very strong argument. <sigh> Look, I'm a Christian and I believe that evolution is an accurate theory, so I'm not a fundamentalist, but I play with fundamentalists every day, and finding a transitional form wouldn't do anything to their objections. (One argument they could mount is that evolution, to be a valid theory, has to be testable by recreation under controlled circumstances to eliminate other causes of change, and that hasn't been done.) My problem with the literalists is that they're reactionary and don't even know it. For centuries and centuries, Christians regarded Genesis as 100% true and 0% literal. The article on Noah's Ark discusses this a little bit. Long, long before Darwin, Christian thinkers were pointing out that the stories are true, that they're not "just symbolic," that they're not "just stories," but they're also not history. It took the triumph of empiricism and then Darwin to stir a reactionary position that was, in fact, unnatural for Christians. However, they can never cease to be reactionary if people taunt them. Their position is not a rational one, but an emotional one (and not a religious one, either). So, given that it's emotional -- a reaction against certain attempts to deny faith that leaves them in the false dichotomy of "every word literally true" or "it's all a joke" -- taunting does nothing but keep them from the position of freedom and comfort such as used to be found in Christian communities, when it was possible to discuss truth as four fold living words and not just history and annals. Geogre 02:55, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Whoa.. Sorry! I just thought it was a neat picture. Didn't really think about the transitional fossil/evolution, etc. aspect of it at all, that was NOT my intent. Someone left me a panderichthys a while back so I went looking for weird creatures to leave for my friends... and I love the name "fishapod", it's goofy. I left this one in a few places. Major apologies if offense was given. ++Lar: t/c 16:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Hey, it made me smile. What a cheerful-looking fellow! And, you're right, "fishapod" is fun to say. Almost as much fun as ... "bishapod" !!! Perhaps we've hit upon one of the transitional forms of bishzillan evolution! FreplySpang (talk) 17:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Bishi's evolving? Ack! "We may have to use nuclear force" !! ++Lar: t/c 17:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Darwin Bish
Sorry, Lar, I was just reading it in the context of the fellow next break up who was being baited for being a creationist, he says. I have no truck with the creationists. I think they're silly. At the same time, there is a lot of baiting of fundamentalists that just doesn't seem productive. (I was just going on and on about it on my talk page -- the trollish change of the userbox "Christian." Again, I have no patience for the userbox, would never use it, don't think it's important, etc., but the changing of it was an overt attempt to poke someone in the eye.) My apologies for thinking you were tweaking the feeb. BTW, now that you mention it, it does look a bit like a Barney the Dinosaur tadpole -- complete with inevitable non-threatening grin. Geogre 18:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
"He says" is right. Bishonen | talk 18:50, 13 May 2006 (UTC).
AArgh!! Barney the Bishapod!!! Sorry folks, revamping Tiktaalik is just going to have to jump up my todo list: it was a rush job working from photos of the model and the cheesy grin just happened, the skull's really more triangular and it should look more alligatorish. If anyone's desperate to keep this silly version, give me a shout and it can be uploaded under a new name: maybe Barneyapod?  :/ ..dave souza, talk 19:05, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I like Barney the Bishapod. He's cute and cuddly. He no doubt went extinct from being hugged to death! Geogre 20:49, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
If you make it all realistic and scientific and stuff it won't be nearly as funny, I mean, geez. Perhaps you can recolor it the way panderichthys was recolored?... I'm thinking um, since that one was green... why not go purple! ++Lar: t/c 20:57, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
If you make it all realistic and scientific and stuff it .... a plushie fishapod! What a great idea! Hm, I wonder if it's already on the market... FreplySpang (talk) 21:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Barney the Bishapod, patent pending.

NO! The noble cause of Science must come first, and it is my Duty to try to make Tiktaalik more accurate and less cheesy. With limited success as you can see from the image at the start of all this tosh. However, community spirited as I am, yours truly has bowed to public pressure and a cuddly Barney the Bishapod with a remarkable resemblance to your old cheery pal should now appear to the right. I demand a cut on any sales! ..dave souza, talk 18:45, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Aww! A bishapod for Freply's (somewhat more intimidating) Darwin Bish to (gulp) play with! They're both lovely, thank you so much! Bishonen | talk 18:58, 14 May 2006 (UTC).

The number of users (Thewolfstar etc..)

Care to fill me in? I am kinda curious what 'evil' you have supposively done. :) --Cat out 01:50, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi there, Kawai neko! Not sure what "the number of users" refers to? But let me break down my offences for you:
  1. If you read thewolfstar's talkpage archive here, you will get a goood picture of my crimes. I know it's long and, uh, kind of repetitious, but just do a search for "Bishonen". As you can see, the posts from me are few; I soon decided that arguing with TWS was too surrealist for me, I'm impatient that way. But the discussions of me are pretty comprehensive! ;-)
  2. It was me who blocked TWS indefinitely as having exhausted the community's patience, here. Do click on the link I give there to the block log, it's kind of hair-raising. The ANI thread, which is linked to in the message, is also very telling. Unfortunately it's been archived from the ANI page, so you'll have have to use the diff to the first post that's supplied in block message.
  3. And thirdly: yesterday I blocked User:Lamb of god as an obvious sock (or possibly meatpuppet). It's not editing from the same IP, but the CheckUser arbitrator that I consulted laughed at the idea that it would not be a sock. And indeed, I'm convinced the community will uphold the block. That reminds me I need to go post it on WP:ANI.
That's it, enjoy your reading. Bishonen | talk 08:52, 13 May 2006 (UTC).
"the number of users" was refering to multiple users (puppet or not) complaining about you for blokcing them.
It appears clear second thoughts are not necesary in this case. You didnt really had to give a lenghty response. :)
In any case thank you for your time.
--Cat out 17:32, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Erich Heller

Bish, I hate to ask you every time I think something needs attention, and I have asked Geogre to take a look, but hopefully there is someone among the people with either page on their watchlist who knows something about German literature. The author of Erich Heller has asked for comments on the talkpage. It is a fairly specialized topic and I don't know if there is any point in taking it to peer review, as I see that most requests there get ignored. u p p l a n d 09:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

You asked...

...Now here's the answer:

Ways are what people will do in order to ensure advantages for themselves, while won'ts are the opposite, although commonly people do not conduct this in a manner that will lead to disadvantageous situations; it frequently occurs without realization.

Also posted at WP:AN/I. —Eternal Equinox | talk 18:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Bishonen | talk 18:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC).

Won'ts are the opposite of what people will do in order to ensure advantages for themselves? Won'ts are what people won't do to ensure disadvantages for others? Got it. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:51, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Nono, you've doubled the negative. FreplySpang (talk) 19:56, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
No, I tripled it. So it's still right. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:57, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Never grease your weasel

Mrph. Those weasel words are dang slippery when you go to count them. :-) FreplySpang (talk) 20:01, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Never grease your weasel. You'll go blind. Geogre 20:51, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
There's just no such thing as a non-religious conversation with Geogre anymore. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:30, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Bless you children, I am returned to you! Put it down Geogre! I'm sure that woman has split an infinitive or something horrible there. I know I can't speak English but that just does not sound right to me. I thought she had left us all anyway. Why has she returned? - who has encouraged this, unwelcome visitation?- BoG you seem to be going a little scarlet! "A chi dai il dito si prende anche il braccio" (old Italian saying) Advise from the religiously confirmed: "Deprive the ferret of its oxygen and it ferrets to hectares new" (new Sicilian saying) Giano | talk 21:54, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
    • And here I was worrying that this page was getting all, "coherent" and stuff... Well, glad that's sorted! It's back to normal now that Giano turned up. ++Lar: t/c
      • Thank goodness for online translation services. "To who from the finger takes also the arm." Hmm. You make no more sense than EE, Giano. Are you Canadian? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't try to be clever with me please! It's all very well for Auntie to announce she is giving advice; but is she qualified for such a role? No she is not! All this being nice and welcoming to all and sundries - what does it achieve? Weasels in the fireplace, that is what! Bishonen is too nice for her own good. I am not at all nice, but I have no ferrets in my fireplace. Why do you think this is? Now you all think on that. Giano | talk 22:11, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Er, ferretproof chimney grates? A deweaseling service? Mustelid management professionals? FreplySpang (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Ah! A wise man at last has arrived. You see BoG you have so much to learn. Freddyspong here understands exactly the advice I am giving. Beware the worm in the wood haemeroid Giano | talk 22:22, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Freply's a woman. Careful of your ferret. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Freply's a woman who is currently boggling at the idea that we have no article on ferret-legging. What kind of encyclopedia is this? FreplySpang (talk) 22:56, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm telling you, if you keep that up with your weasels and your ferrets, you're going to be in trouble. It's very clearly outlined in the Bestiary: "The weasel we take to be a common symbol of Lust that gnaws through even the mildest of hearts" and "The ferret is the very type of theft, for it stealeth both day and night." So, you keep that up, and you'll find your nights missing and no more money left on the dresser. Better to be like me: a Sniper of Love. Geogre 22:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
      • You embarrass the establishment with your gender confusion, Giano! Say hallo to Mrs Spang! And now....
          • Allo beeyootifulla lady!.... you wanna see my very macho chest-wig and "gold effect" medallion? Giano | talk 07:25, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
            • Um.... hi! I'm thoroughly dazzled by them, thank you. It's an, um, impressive combination. FreplySpang (talk) 12:34, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
              • Gerroff! Vixen! Don't you try your wiles on my good Eyetalian boy! Bishonen | talk 13:31, 14 May 2006 (UTC).
              • Is this silliness really necessary? Bishonen was curious to know something, and I answered — the chapter ends here. I really cannot grasp this conversation without complication. Anyway, if you want more information, come visit North America or at least check Google. Now I will go with as little insult as I can. —Eternal Equinox | talk 15:55, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm not a wileding anyone, I always willing, in fact I wiled, I willing, just not willerding. Come Freply, Caro mio, (can I call you Freppie) let us leave this place and go a willerding in the woods. Bishonen, I willa take you willerding tomorrow Giano | talk 17:34, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
You babblers! Do you even realize I've been RFArd? Isn't anybody gonna go defend me, except dear Bunchofgrapes? Giano! Don't you care? Geogre?
/me holds out hands for the handcuffs and is hauled off shouting Venceremos! Bishonen | talk 18:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC).
I'll get the wheat whites and wine for my Little Feat. No worries over the RfAr; it's just the sound of a small dog barking, and if you talk back, it'll just bark more. Geogre 19:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Will? Willing? Weleding? Yes, that's the worldwide web for you. :) —Eternal Equinox | talk 18:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
EE, frankly, if you're unhappy about my page, how about just taking it off your watchlist, hmm? Just a suggestion. Didn't I see you just above mentioning that you were leaving now? Perhaps you have some friends of your own to banter with? Your replying to my question was nice, but replying here as well as on WP:ANI where I actually asked seems a bit excessive in the first place. And I really like for people to be able to spread themselves here without having the "necessity" of their "silliness" questioned. Very little of this thread has anything to do with you, you know; people merely omitted to make a new subheading when they went on to other subjects. I'll do it. There, happy? Bishonen | talk 19:29, 14 May 2006 (UTC).
  • Yes, I agree. Go away and don't come back. Jetz, meine kleine Freppiechen, Caro mio, where were we Giano | talk 19:48, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
  • It seems to be Bish's day for w*ding in the woods - I wouldn't want to be rude to our gracious hostzilla! FreplySpang (talk) 19:11, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Only that it is very difficult to realize this when the header had not been placed. I just happened to respond on both pages and I figured everyone had to make a joke about it (which, as I confide, appeared rather unusual). Now I am not leaving Wikipedia because there is no reason I have to, and I will never leave unless I have to in some sort of way. Thankfully, the friends I have garnered on this website are sincere. Please do not elaborate on this comment or on what "sincere" means. If I ever come into contact with either of you again, it'll be for good reason. Examples, please? Those are my ways and won'ts. Tsk, tsk. I should ask her — myself, sorry — for advice. —Eternal Equinox | talk 19:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Good grief, I was referring to what you said ABOVE. Namely that you were leaving my page. I would encourage you to. Nobody's talking about you leaving wikipedia. At least I'm not, and was not. Bishonen | talk 19:59, 14 May 2006 (UTC).
Uh-huh. Well I'm done posting here. Permanently. Can't wait to see the mock that follows this message here. :) —Eternal Equinox | talk 23:19, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
It's a Boolean logic paradox! If you're not here, you can't be waiting to see the mockery, and if you can't wait for the mockery, then you're here, but if you're here then you can't be waiting to see the mockery.... Help Me, Norman! Geogre 02:18, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm afraid further steps are going to have to be taken at this point. Our administrators are the ones who are completely corrupted. And again I'm afraid I'll have to continue to post until this silliness comes to a halt. —Eternal Equinox | talk 20:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Excuse me? You're going to have to keep posting? On my page? After you've gone on and on about how you're not going to? And have been requested not to? Yet another familiar pattern. Calm down, now. Get this: what my friends post on my page is not your business. Who asked you to troll this page and interfere in other people's conversations? That provokes people, you know. If you post here again, you'll be rolled back like a common vandal. If you post again, you'll be blocked for harassment. Do you want to go down that road again, really? Wouldn't you rather work on your articles, now? As for you, Giano and Geogre, just cut it out, you're not funny. Bishonen | talk 21:29, 15 May 2006 (UTC).
A young Bishonenspang arrives in town, while a decadent Giano and Bunchofgrapes leer at her from a doorway and an unidentified female introduces her to a life of promiscuous sin.

I asked

But I think I found it. Geogre 15:13, 14 May 2006 (UTC) (I'm referring to my socks. I wanted to know where they were after last night. Turns out, they're in Sweden.)

Cool, I was just looking for a good place to put them. (Your ears?). Now if you'll excuse me, I'd better go write a response to the Request for Arbitration that User:WCityMike has filed against me.[7] Bishonen | talk 15:28, 14 May 2006 (UTC).

And now I've spread my thunder all over the place. If I keep on rumbling, people will stop believing that I'm an Frost Giant (or troll or Ogre of the Earth or Ge-Ogre) and think I'm just another battling admin. Still, the targets were tempting, and the rhetoric came (I lisp'd in numbers for the numbers came). Geogre 19:41, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

You are Thor! Bishonen | talk 19:44, 14 May 2006 (UTC).

I seem to swing my mighty hammer best when there is an RfAR workshop page to aim at. I don't know why that is, but I've risen to my greatest rhetorical heights and delivered sharpest blows in such cases. Go figure. Everybody needs a talent, I guess. Geogre 02:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, at least there's some variety in the religion-speak. FreplySpang (talk) 19:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Sure. There is Christianity of the Roman Catholic, the Anglican, and the Assorted Protestant sort, Norse myth, and Star Trek. I think that covers most varieties of religious experience on Wikipedia. Geogre 19:28, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Dare I mention.... Scientology? FreplySpang (talk) 19:32, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
That's not a religion, and I'm not funny. Tom Curse is funny. Conan O'Brien did a great bit where Mayor McCheese is OT VIII and standing up for Tom Curse's religious choices. Geogre 23:03, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Aunt 'Zilla's Etiquette Tips and Intimate FAQ

Nice? Hah!

Place your questions below, please.


Question: Is it acceptable to rotate on the wiki?
Answer: On talkpages only. And only until you get dizzy. PS, it is not proper for disgraced criminals to rotate, obviously.[8] Bishzilla.png

Cheese, butter and fine dining

Question: Was I violating WP:NPOV by reverting this edit? -- Peeved in Portland 23:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Answer: Is it or is it not your business what he uses it for? Yes, you did. Bishzilla.png


Question: Do you have any advice for revitalizing Tokyo's decaying urban core? -- Nervous in Nippon 23:40, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Answer: /me destroys Tokyo.
OK, done. Bishzilla.png

The budoir

Question: When she says "I'll be right back" and goes to the restroom, but she doesn't come long should you wait before you call a cab? Waiting at the Bar
Answer: Call a cab what? /me falls over laughing at dinosaur wit.


Question: What do you do to clean bits of buildings off your teeth, and how do you get rid of those embarassing school bus stains? Mothra has a date!
Answer: Do yourself a favor with the fair, or any, sex, use the Bishzilla range of toiletries for all your daily needs. For your special requirements I recommend flossing with Bishzilla's Dental Hawser and exfoliating with the Velvet Smooth Gravel Paste for that shiny, scaly, first-date look. And don't forget the rouge. Bishzilla.png


Question: Megatokyo features a "rent-a-zilla" which Largo has taken out for a spin more than once, much to the dismay of shopkeepers in the vicinity. Do you know how much the rental is, and do you have suggestions for how to break into the business? It seems like it might be quite lucrative! Worshiping Mammon in Megatokyo
Dear Mammon, dear Mammon, you have no complaint
You are what you are, and you ain't what you ain't
So listen up, buster, and listen up good:
Stop wishin for bad luck and knockin' on wood.[9][10]


Question: What should one do when brought as an involved party into a nuisance RfArb? -- Awkward in ArbCom 04:57, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Answer: Bask in the glory, and enjoy the obvious envy of paltry musclers-in[11]! Actually, I like your "federal case"... Felonius Monk's "contrived embroglio" is the best so far, though!

Trolling 2

Question: How should one deal with an anonymous, infallibly cheerful, persistent "friend" ? Privacy-lover in Personal Space 12:53, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Answer: At all times, apply the 'Zilla Zolution.[12]

Request for Arbitration

I have brought a request for arbitration naming you as an interested party. [13]WCityMike (talk • contribs • where to reply) 04:24, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

admin noticeboard ban

I hope you can reinstate me from my ban. As you might've noticed, I already posted an apology on Elc's talkpage. thanks--Bonafide.hustla 06:42, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Bh, actually I asked you to post once more in the same thread on ANI, to put your apology there and ask if other people were ready to reinstate you. But I do understand that we had an honest misunderstanding about that, and, yes, I noticed your apology to El C. It's fine, you're welcome back, I'm sure you don't have any time-wasting posting in mind. Feel free to use the noticeboard. If I don't remove your posts, I bet nobody else will either--they probably don't even remember there was a problem. Or if you like you could add a note that this is OK by Bishonen now, if you prefer. Bishonen | talk 10:16, 14 May 2006 (UTC).


Bishonen, did you miss my post to you above? Under the "More Vandalism" heading. If you don't have a suggestion that's fine. I guess we'll eventually work out something collectively if he continues to make a nuisance of himself anyhow. Regards Gatoclass 10:40, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Gatoclass, indeed I did not miss it. I apologize. I've been thinking about it and trying to pull myself together to write a responsive answer. (In the meantime, I know you see me bantering with the guys, but that doesn't mean I'm taking time off, as such--that's something I do with my toes while simultaneously grading papers!) See, the problem is so difficult, and so common. It's exactly the place where the "dispute resolution process" crumbles. The next step should be either mediation or an RfC; the trouble is, only good users are interested in taking part in them. You get worn out trying to RfC guys like that, because:
  1. Writing up an RfC is a lot of trouble, while responding to it is easy, and why would he even bother to respond at all, when it's even simpler to go on just as he's been doing?
  2. His political opinions and POV--I warn you I'm a bit cynical here, and my bias may be showing--mean that there are lots of users around the place who'd be ready to support him at the RfC, on the principle that "You're just saying he's a bad editor because of his decent godfearing patriotic opinions, OMG liberal cabal!" I hasten to add that I don't mean all, or even most, politically conservative editors behave like that! But the ones that do are a big group and a suspiciouos, confrontational, aggressive lot. :-( So an RfC is likely to be unbalanced by people with an axe to grind.
  3. Finally, since the case is so common, it's hard to generate constructive interest in an RfC in an unknown editor with that editing pattern. It's not like when it's Sam Spade!

So altogether I see an RfC as being a lot of trouble with most likely little result. Mediation might be better. Mind you, I think he'd be unlikely to agree--why would he, presumably the present situation is fine by him--but at least there you'd have the advantage that requesting mediation is dead easy, you wouldn't be investing a lot of time and frustration, and who knows, it might go somewhere. You might take a look at Wikipedia:Mediation and Wikipedia:Requests for mediation.

But my most practical advice to you is to discuss the issue with the other editors of the articles. CBerlet comes to mind as a highly experienced and dedicated editor, who's been through the wars on the politically controversial articles. (I haven't--I know my temperamental limitations--I'm very interested in the articles as such, but I can't stand trying to work against the hostility and filibustering one always encounters at them. I try, and then I leave, like a coward. :-() I hope you find some way of either working with, or dealing with, that guy. Bishonen | talk 12:41, 14 May 2006 (UTC).

I didn't really see an RfC as a valid option either. I was really just trying to get a handle on how this sort of thing is usually handled on Wiki. To tell the truth, I just hate reverting people cold, even if they are POV. And it's not something I want to make a habit of.
Anyhow, I'm not going to worry about it anymore. Sooner or later, this guy is going to wake up that his edits are futile. Then he will either leave, or start participating in the process like a responsible user. And either way, the problem will be solved. Thanks for taking the time to explain the score to a Wiki-beginner :) Gatoclass 14:11, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


"Noch ist Polen nicht verloren". Entry ticket at the student carneval at Lund University 1896.

Have you seen this image, as used on sv:Lundakarnevalen and de:Lundakarnevalen. It seems they missed the origin of the phrase (but I added it to the Swedish version). u p p l a n d 14:23, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow, 1896? Cool! Bishonen | talk 13:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC).

Good article candidate, or featured?


As an established Wikipedian, I was hoping for your assistance regards a particular article. Specifically the article on NPA Personality Theory - it is a new article, but was submitted in a very much complete state. It now has properly sized imagery, is professionally written, expansive and all emcompassing regards it subject, is NPOV, of a good length - and cites references. The subject matter is, to my mind, interesting. Thus, should it be nominated as a Good article? Or, as a featured one? If you feel the former, then by all means add the "Good" article tag - along with some advice if you can. If you believe the latter should be appropriate, again any advice regards this would be great - if you could leave a response on the linked articles Talk page, that would be great. Thanks! -- D-Katana 22:25,14 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the block, though I think the scamp had given up by then. And, uh, this is awkward, proving that I clearly stalk you -- you seem to have responded to the question above with a review of the wrong page. NPA Personality Theory, not Personality Test. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 01:06, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Piss. I mean, that was a plant — a test of your personality. Didn't twig, huh? Bishonen | talk 01:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC).
Bish, you failed. It's the No Personal Attacks Personality Test, and when you said "piss," you were clearly insulting Bunchofgrapes to test his personality. Geogre 02:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Seriously? I mean, I know he's written articles about Butter and Cheese and stuff — but Piss? Bishonen | talk 02:18, 15 May 2006 (UTC).
You mean that you were telling him that you think that Piss is a good article, or that it's a featured candidate? It can't be the latter, as talk page form 10-stroke-2203 hasn't been filled out in triplicate and lodged on the talk page, and it's obvious that the spacing is all wrong. Geogre 02:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm afraid Piss is a disambiguation page and thus disqualified out of the gate. I suppose I could always work on drinking urine, there's a prime candidate for GA. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:42, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
You're working on drinking urine? It sounds unhealthy, but I suppose you would just have to close your eyes and gulp. Ummm, would this be your own or ... Nevermind: I don't want to know. Geogre 02:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Perfectly safe and sterile either way, don't you worry! Did you read the article? Vaguely fascinating. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
I did read it. It left me feeling vaguely nauseated, and we can only hope that Chuck Berry doesn't see it. Geogre 02:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
If Bunch gets drinking urine up to GA status, he could be rightly piss proud. Paul August
If it goes through WP:FARC, he can be pissed off. Geogre 14:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, urine is used by some yogis as an aid to meditation, and medical science has shown that there is indeed a chemical in urine that (from memory) distorts the sense of time, thus allowing longer meditation sessions. These urine drinking yogis also prefer the urine from children, which has been demonstrated to have higher concentrations of this particular chemical. Gatoclass 07:08, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

So that is why he always kept Boo Boo with him. Geogre 11:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:) Gatoclass 07:48, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I can't quite figure out who is taking the piss out of whom here. Piss Christ, but I'm confused now! ++Lar: t/c 19:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Yogis drink it, and making it is a Boo Boo, and thus all water is passed. Vampires can't pass water, it seems, which explains their preference for wearing black and living alone. Geogre 21:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Apology & Withdrawal

My apology and withdrawal: [14]. — WCityMike (talk • contribs • where to reply) 22:48, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


Seriously, you can't be for real! "we can pretty much assume you are not a troll, vandal, or clueless newbie"?? "I hope you still enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian, and won't get mad over something stupid and leave!"?? "don't get all grumpy and leave over nothing"?? The stuff is bizarre. I can't possibly welcome people with that! Should I create oldwelcome2 with normal wording, or can we agree to put this monster out of its misery? - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 01:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, why would you welcome people with a template you don't like? I presume people use it as a joke, planting it on people they know will appreciate it--I know I do. After all, an oldie isn't like a newbie, an unknown quantity; they're someone whose tastes and sense of humor I'm aware of. (If I'm not, then I'm not going to use this template, obviously.)
Please do create oldwelcome2. I don't understand why you would need to gut this one for the purpose. I don't even understand why you feel an urge to badmouth this one, as opposed to simply not using it, but hey, YMMV. If you check the history, you'll see that you're the first person to edit it after it was created by User:Phroziac, in July 2005, so it doesn't exactly seem to have been provoking or annoying lots of people in the meantime. I'm not only for real, I might even be almost normal. Bishonen | talk 01:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC).
Seems pretty funny to me. Since the thing was invented and used solely as a joke, I can't understand how anyone would even find it unless they were in on the joke, much less use it. Therefore, I can't understand why its mere existence is an issue unless folks are simply going through every template and evaluating them as if they were articles. If they're doing that, I need to hear about it, because I'm convinced that about 90% of the templates on Wikipedia need to be deleted, along with the user boxes, and all the little tags that litterbugs drop on articles when they have no intention to help the article in any way but still want to show that they like to pass a judgment. Geogre 17:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok. I was unaware that it's a joke. Perhaps it should be clearly labelled as such. Thing is, I saw it used on someone in earnest, and I was petrified that we were giving this language to not perfectly new, but still sort of new under-welcomed users! The reason it passed under the radar is b/c it's not referred to in the page which lists all the non-private welcome templates. Ok, I will just use welcome instead of creating oldwelcome2. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 17:45, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Erich Heller

I copyedited much of the Erich Heller article not long ago. All my edits were immediately reverted by an IP number editor. Ach! I don't want to discourage the editor hard at work on the article; but the issues of NPOV and house style might actually be as well covered by going back. Also, we need to have a word about using edit summaries. Charles Matthews 11:52, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Checking. I see what you mean. Wow. Do you think the IP and Prof2 are the same person? Anyway, the Prof doesn't seem 100% aware of the way the History works, from his comment about "Bishonen's posting on the article's History page". I'll go put in a reference to the Help:Edit summary page for him on Talk:Erich Heller. There's a template I could use, I believe, that would give the info right there, but I don't know what it is. ({{editsummary}} isn't any good for this.) Anyway, perhaps you could join me, and bring up the house style and your being reverted...? It's a bit late to revert to your excellent copyedit, though, I guess; that would discourage him. (You should have had an invigorating edit war with the anon right away! ;-)) Bishonen | talk 18:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC).

Attention Citizen

The entity Bishbot has been traced to this account. Desist running any and all unauthorised automata at once. Fill out form thirty-seven-slash-two schedule B to apply for permission to seek limited feet/bird-bot authorisation. Failure to comply may result in termination. Thank you. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I suppose Bishonen hasn't been to WP:AGE yet. Bunchofgrapes doesn't qualify yet. You have to have more in your retirement account than your checking account to go there. Geogre 23:26, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
If that's the criteria, I qualify easily. But that's saying more about my checking account than anything else. I still think I might qualify for WP:AGE on my own merits though. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
And remember, the computer is your friend, citizen. ++Lar: t/c 01:16, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm so old that I remember the free issue of Popular Paranoia that came with the Infocom game "A Mind Forever Voyaging," which was a game that didn't have any pictures at all. None. No pictures. Just a carrat cursor and a neat language parser. Geogre 02:42, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
And the greatest ending of all time. These crazy shoot-em-up kids today know nothing of pathos.
brenneman{L} 04:25, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
I believe it's caret, technically. And I've not played AMFV but I have played Adventure (on a Univac 1100/80, no less) ++Lar: t/c 04:52, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
I played Adventure on a Vax, but the best of all time, the one that proves no doubt that kids today know absolutely nothing about good plots, was Hitchhiker's Guide on IBM PC Jr. Also, Mind Forever Voyaging did have one of the best endings of all time, but I found a single picture-dripping game that had a similarly good ending, and that was Planescape: Torment. Other than that, none of the clicky clicky here here games can touch the old Infocoms for plotting and thoughtfulness. "Oooooh, my Orc ran double speed across the Jungle of Thithhy!" <yawn> "My clan needs a Wikipedia article its so famous and dont delete it!" <yawn> Geogre 11:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Re: I wish you no harm (either)

I feel the need to make this my final response because of what you posted on my talk page. One: no more communication would be pleasant. Two: an RfC was filed against you before, yes, I see. But there is no mention of HW there, so, uh, I don't understand. Three: I promise this is my last post since I felt the need to respond to you. But this is it, this is it, this is absolutely 100% it. Now if everything really you conducted was under the assumption of good faith, then excellent effort. I cannot argue with those words.

I wish you no harm either. Just please ask your friends to refrain from conversing about me here on out on Wikipedia; obviously I do not really care what occurs outside of these walls. —Eternal Equinox | talk 19:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Anime lists

I assumed you know some japanese... I though you might want to comment on those. Also feel free to cleanup the kanji-romanji translations if necesary. :)

--Cat out 20:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry Neko, I'd like to help if I could, but you assume wrong. :-( Bishonen | talk 13:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC).

Well, this isnt the first time I made a wrong assumption ^_^. --Cat out 19:40, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Or this

Wikipedia:Song/The RfA Candidate's Song Geogre 21:04, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Mmm. OK. Thank you. Bishonen | talk 13:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC).


Hello? I insult you on my page! Wake up! Bishonen | talk 13:36, 17 May 2006 (UTC).

Where? I see nothing but justified, and understandable, compliments to my intelligence, charm and wit. Giano | talk 10:24, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh, those. Just the usual, don't mention it. And I was merely speaking a spell so you'd be able to post here in accordance with the conditions stated. Bishonen | talk 00:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC).

We're not funny. See, I even tried passing on a link to an RFA song, and all I got was a condescending sniff. Can you blame Giano, after what happened to me, for not wanting to expose himself? Geogre 03:01, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

You've been exposing yourself again??? ++Lar: t/c 03:07, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Stop showing off how funny you are, Lar, compared to poor unfunny Geogre. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Blame Giano? Nonono, I'm delighted he doesn't. Tell me, do you want to ... do that ...? Have you felt like that for a long time... ? [Backing cautiously towards the door.] Eliza and I will be going now! Bishonen | talk 03:11, 20 May 2006 (UTC). P.S. I actually am asleeep; just got up to open the window. (Now I'm thinking I might jump out of it!)

Have I been exposing myself? I type naked, my heart on my sleeve, which I'm not wearing, where it gets stomped and used as a cigarette ashtray by all la belle dames sans merci. The sight of it would make a sadist cry. O misericordia, everyone is so mean to me! Geogre 03:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Oooh, I had a friend who forgot and left her heart on her sleeve when she tossed her blouse into the hamper, it went through the laundry and everything. It came out soft and fluffy, static-free and Downy fresh! But she was lucky - she really should have checked the label, a lot of people's hearts are dry-clean-only. FreplySpang (talk) 03:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

My poor heart is broken, so you're all too late, it's already torn. Why do you think I'm working on articles about whores and whore hunters and celebrating misgynystic poets? Womens are viscous as a species. Geogre 11:10, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Women are not viscous, our delicate nature does not allow it! KillerChihuahua?!?
All the women I end up with are viscous -- I never can find any fast women who are slow enough to be caught by me. As for the blood countess, that's for Giano. He's a member of the peerage or something. I'm only a member of the hickarchy. Geogre 12:11, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Just because I am on holiday please do not talk about me as though I am not here. I have removed this page from my watch list. as people are not serious enough here for an intellectual brain such as mine. Freppie has refused my kind offer to marry her, and I have decided Bishonen is far too "forward". So I am not watching it any more. I will not be commenting on the puerile conversations which take placed as I am far too busy single handedly writing this encyclopedia. I am in fact working on an in depth and very serious study of a popular music song and video [15] which will shortly be a featured article. Now grow up all of you. Giano | talk 10:10, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
    • You've got a lot of cheek, my chest wigged medallion wearing friend, telling others to grow up! You wouldn't know what to do with a "forward" thinking woman if she bit you. ++Lar: t/c 13:05, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I've been biten by more forward women than you've had hot dinners sunshine. I can have anything I want in that department, just by clicking my fingers. Now please get on with your work, and stop interupting me. Giano | talk 13:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

User dispute

Would you mind looking into a user dispute? I have a rather lenghty evidence I posted at ANB/I that has been siting there for some time now. I assumed you would volunteer to investigate. ;) --Cat out 19:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

So are you making two points: a) that Moby Dick is a sock of Davenbelle, and b) that the sock is hounding you? Or what? I looked, and I think it's obvious that MD wasn't a new user when he started editing. That edit at your RFA is even professional in more ways than you mention. That doesn't prove he's Davenbelle, of course; but I think the circumstantial evidence for that is good enough to request a CheckUser check. Have you done that? I'll do it if you like, as soon as I see someone with CheckUser access on IRC (there's nobody at the moment). Bishonen | talk 22:13, 17 May 2006 (UTC).
I have requested a checkuser. Davenbelle last edited early december. Logs making checkuser posible is only kept for a month and due to that technical nature a checkuser is not possible hence the checkuser was 'inconclusive'. Hence I only have his edit behaviour as evidence and cannot 'confrim' with a checkuser...
P.S. You might want to make a similar remark like on ANB/I in Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Moby Dick.
--Cat out 10:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I will. Bishonen | talk 00:15, 20 May 2006 (UTC).


Thanks for letting me know but I already added comment back. I have been reverting and rolling back Amorrow sockpuppets to the point of that I'm going brain dead! FloNight talk 01:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


Please see my message at User talk:Charles Matthews. I think CM was insensitive to the situation and expressed himself in a way which got him off on the wrong foot with Prof02. Prof02 is now asking to have the article transferred to userspace. u p p l a n d 10:57, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

My vote

Yes, my vote, but made by someone else. I would not have put up the proposal if I did not intend to vote for it. Fred Bauder 16:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Cry for Help

You have any books with decent images of Nell Gwyn to scan? The internet hasn't coughed up anything good; I don't have a scanner myself. I know Howe's The First English Actresses has a plate of this one; maybe it's better quality? I'll take almost anything, happily. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:37, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

It's not better quality, au contraire, sorry. Is this one, which I snitched from the National Portrait Gallery|NPG, too small for your requirements, then? Is it a lead pic for the bio you're after? Then it would be, I guess. I'm afraid my paperback First English Actresses has only very poor b&w reproductions inside. And while it has a fine big glossy Nell Gwyn.png on the cover, that's unfortunately got lettering on it. The g in "English" goes right down into her hair. :-( Bishonen | talk 21:05, 20 May 2006 (UTC).
I just got Albion's Fatal Tree, and I've got a scanner, so I'll prolly scan some reproductions of gruesome things, but nothing as horrid as Nell Gwynn with a G-hair extension. Geogre 21:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
(Response to Bish:) Image:Nell Gwyn.png is perfectly fine (although I do worry that it's one of those "thought to be" Nell Gwyns, and -- blatant original research ahoy! -- it doesn't overly much resemble the face in the few Lely paintings which more surely are her), I'm just fishing for more images to use in the piece. Thanks for looking, though. (To George:) Ouch! What's G-hair? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Maybe I'll just grab the excellent portrait from here. Or the whole thing! Short and to-the-point! ("Nell became the King’s girlfriend, even though he was already married." :-) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:53, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, the face is gonna be idealized, in't it? That's surely her. She's in some famous part of hers there, I'm pretty sure. And this engraving (not bad, is it?) by Thomas Wright is done "after" that Lely oil. This one, also Lely, is uggl-o-rama, but big and shiny. See here for provenance. Bishonen | talk 21:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC).

Right, so what's a "sleeveless errand" ? ... Charles Sackville was sent on a sleeveless errand into France to be out of the way. (from his article) presumably so that the king could have his way with Nell ++Lar: t/c 22:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

It's the kind of errand you'll get sent on to be out of the way. ;P. To fetch water in a sieve. To collect a McGuffin. Bishonen | talk 22:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC).
Oh, man, those 1911 Britannica articles stink SO MUCH. :-( Bishonen | talk 22:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC).
Almost all our articles do, dear. Have a cup of tea. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:23, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Our articles are comprehensible and NPOV. The 1911's are only sometimes one or the other and rarely both together. A G-hair is like a G-string -- the third string of a guitar, or, in this case, the third hair of a bow. A "sleeveless errand" is one for a shop apprentice. You wear no sleeves when you're just a step 'n fetchit boy in a shop: Thus, Dorset was sent like a servant. There would have been no need, though: he had his own ladies and wouldn't have missed one or two. Geogre 00:38, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


...I'm an "encourager" now? I'd be kind of flattered if this wasn't connotative. XD. After all, it's not every day that I get promoted from regular user to encourager. Maybe I'll put it in my sig. Hmm. Anyway, I just wanted to remind you that while I do believe that some administrators are megalomaniacal and corrupt (although the jury is still out on you, LOL!), I originally defended Thewolfstar because I believed that people were not assuming good faith on her part, and also because she was a fellow Esperanzian. Because of paralanguage, this comment probably reads like it's annoyed and frustrated, but in honesty I'm just very amused. I can't wait to see what happens next! Besides, someone with a name like Bishonen must be one of the good guys. - Corbin Be excellent 15:31, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Eeps. Gomenesai. Just came back from the shower, and realized how rough the above comment sounds. Of course, it's too late to take it back, but I can at least apologize a bit. Also, was the primary reason for User:Dot Bitch's block the username or the suspected sockpuppetry? Just curious. Happy editing! - Corbin Be excellent 16:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I didn't think the username that bad myself — perhaps all the "bitchonen"'s and other wolfstar variants have blunted my sensibilities, you know — but considering Essjay's reaction to it, I blocked for username. However, I thought it also worth while to point out the sock suspicion. Even though CheckUser wasn't conclusive, Essjay seemed very sure that a new user with that IP had something to hide. And considering all the circumstantial suggestiveness of her few edits, this is the kind of case that would have been blocked as a sock "beyond reasonable doubt" before there was any CheckUser. I'm sorry to see that people keep assuming Macai is the same user; I hope you'll help me defend his right to edit.
I'm sorry if "encourager" sounded bad, I didn't mean it like that at all. You weren't encouraging her to go on insulting people, AFAIK, but more generally to "hang in there"; that's fine by me. I was merely trying to speak economically in using the word. However, since I'm about to vote on your RFA, I might as well mention here that I do have a problem with some of your other input in this case, notably your vague but far-reaching assumptions of corruption and conspiracies among admins, your ... well... I'm trying to find a polite way of saying this, you understand ... no, there isn't one ... ok, with what looks, to my perhaps jaundiced eye, like heroic posturing on WP:ANI, "daring" to speak out in favor of the courageous underdog critic who has been blocked by admin conspiracy, for which signal act of integrity you obviously risk being blocked yourself... sorry, but that's how your tone reads to me. I find it far more objectionable than your message above, which doesn't look rough to me. My problem is with seeing you as Emile Zola, or Thewolfstar as Alfred Dreyfus. The jury's in now, I'm sure.
As for what happens next, that'll be me posting on your RFA. Bishonen | talk 16:35, 21 May 2006 (UTC).
Eh, there's a lot I want to say, but everybody's heard it already. Basically, the reason I keep picking at little suggestions of corruption and abuse of power is to be extremist. After all, without extremists, there is stagnation. It's entirely possible that there are no corrupt administrators and that everybody else simply has a better grip on reality and policy than me. Administrators are given power through a social contract with the community, and it is my firm belief that administrators should answer to the community when they have to, and it frustrates me sometimes to see the kind of power that you guys have being tossed around lightly sometimes. That's why I won't reapply for administrator when my current RfA fails — if the community really trusts me with power, they'll give it to me when the time is right. As for "encourager," don't worry; the word is decently neutral, and has a very cool denotation. [16] Turn that frown upside down, LOL! *hug* - Corbin Be excellent 22:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


I'm not editing Wikipedia if you're present. So goodbye. For good. —Eternal Equinox | talk 22:45, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the sixth goodbye-for-ever-I-will-never-speak-to-you-again this week, counting e-mail. It's a bit like having a needy age-inappropriate ex-boyfriend who keeps inventing new reasons for dropping by for the positively last time. Please make this one stick. Bishonen | talk 23:13, 21 May 2006 (UTC).
Absolutely will be, darling. —Eternal Equinox | talk 01:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
  • An ode for this sad occasion:-
There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall
And the bells in the steeple too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird
Is popping out to say cook-coo cook-coo, cook-coo
Regretfully they tell us cook-coo
But firmly they compel us cook-coo
To say goodbye cook-coo...
To you.......(with apologies to Baronin von Trapp) Giano | talk 17:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Most touching and fitting, I'm sure. But you'll only get me number eight, nine, etc, etc, etc, G'como. Might as well cut it out if the positively last appearances are ever going to end. Bishonen | talk 17:55, 22 May 2006 (UTC).
I can't stay here talking to you all day, it's just so exiting as the internet is working again , (but not the email!) so I'm able to make my small but worthy contribution. (23 degrees here - how is it in the permafrost? - hohoho) the coconut has just been freshly squeezed downstairs for my pina-colada - so refreshing and cleansing to the mouth after a post lunch snooze. BoG would love it here lots of pepper, and I've acquired a taste for rum and ginger beer - (the only thing here, that is 'Dark and Stormy'). "Wish you were all here". Normal service resumes later this week. I look forward to tuning in again to developments. Giano | talk 18:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
23°? Much the same here. So where are you, Baffin Island? Bishonen | talk 18:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC).
  • So the internet is still working. No Dear, I mean degrees centigrade, I'm in a pleasant little island, from which the island of America is just a short hop away, Geogre and BoG probably come here most week-ends. It's very fashionable and smart, so smart in fact that my chest wig, gold effect medallion, teamed with my matching leopard skin thong and baseball cap has caused quite a stir, my wife was so jealous of the attention I was receiving that she has chosen to sit several hundred metres along the beach away from me. (It's not too late for Freppie to change her mind) There are lots of famous people here (besides myself) including that woman who used to be in Dallas, I think she played the maid, and several British politicians enjoying the hospitality of signor Berlusconi, I wouldn't be surprised if that nice little Mrs. Blair doesn't pop over for drinks later - sweet woman, how the Americans love paying for her words of wisdom. Speak soon, don't forget the gloves when you get to bed later, it can be so cold in those unfashionably northern parts you inhabit. Giano | talk 20:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

None of that matters. See Licensing Act of 1737. See the talk page. It's time to run WHOIS and go squish some IP editor. Geogre 00:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Willow Grove, Pennsylvania is the place to go a squishing! Giano | talk 14:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Knife? Check. Gun? Check. Extra shells? Check. Blackjack? Check. Brass knuckles? Check. Coltrops? Check. Taser? Check. Bad attitude? Double check. Geogre 19:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Chainsaw? check. Burdizzos? Check. Small filleting knife? Ckeck. Seems like we are ready then Geogre - lead the way. Giano | talk 19:51, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Burdizzos? You Italians and your castrati! We're not out to make an opera singer, here! We'll rendezvous at the Big Chicken in Marietta, Georgia and go up Interstate 85 before hitting the bucolic splendor of Penna. I figure we'll be able to pick up some farrier tools there to complete things. Geogre 22:14, 23 May 2006 (UTC) (Good Lord, we have an article on the Big Chicken! O tempore O mores!)
Of course we have an article on the Big Chicken. If we hadn't, I would have written it by now. I was briefly obsessed with it a decade or more ago after reading about it in some magazine. Years later I did dine at the KFC now there... eh. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:30, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh, it's not for eating at. It's for looking at and driving by. It's a landmark like a river or a giant rock would be: "Go north to the Big Chicken, then take 40 Northwest." I've never seen it in person, as I'd go up to Mayretta in the dark, usually, and up a different set of highways. There was a club up there we played a few times...the home club of Guadalcanal Diary (band)...good folks, those, and Murray Attaway has one of the best rock voices ever, and I still sing "(I Wish I Killed) John Wayne" every so often, and "Litany" is a wonderful song. Still, it's not as impressive a monument as the Peachoid, which has to be seen (really, it's rather unavoidable) to be believed. Geogre 23:18, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
And, um, I wrote Peachoid, so I guess I'm not entirely immune to the charms of weird roadside attractions. Best graffiti on the base of all: "Hail Eris! Bringer of the Peachoid Peach!"
I have just clicked on the Big Cock are there no planning laws or restrictions in your part of the world - Oh and opera was not the entertainment I had in mind! Giano | talk 12:44, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
The Big Chicken, when it was built, was off in the middle of the woods. There are zoning laws all over Marietta, now (despite its being Newt Gingrich's district), but the city was nowhere near the big clucker when it went up (and up). You really must see the Peachoid (and, again, because you can't miss it). You may have to click on one of the external links for a picture, though. If I ever go up I-85 again, I'll photograph it. Geogre 15:52, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Beckjord still lurking around...

Bishonen, Please take note that Beckjord is still pretty much active. Even though you've protected Bigfoot, he's still editing the article on himself (Jon-Erik Beckjord) at least 3-6 times each week, so he has yet to give up totally. I wonder whether the latter article will have to be protected as well at some point in order to make Beckjord vanish and/or stop vandalism... 15:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Please sign, I don't know who you are... Frankly, I'd forgotten about leaving Bigfoot protected for so long. Any admin who happens to catch sight of it is likely to unprotect it any minute. I'd rather not protect Jon-Erik Beckjord, though, as 3-6 times a week isn't that much. I'll put it on my watchlist and try to help out. Pity the a**h**e is unblockable. Bishonen | talk 14:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC).

Brick 'O Common Sense

File:Removed, award no longer supported.

For this edit [17], a mighty reply to a farewell message, I award you the most sought after Wiki-award, Raul's Brick of Common sense. Display it with pride. Raul654 17:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Still have that copy of London Stage?

I have an issue here that maybe you could be of help with? It's about restoration comedy! Pearls! Swine! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:14, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


I think your willingness to give Thewolfstar a second chance, and your patient advice in the face of abuse, does you a lot of credit. Some people just can't learn from experience, can they? I suppose this means the mailing list's going to suffer another torrent of her complaints... --ajn (talk) 14:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for being patient with User:Thewolfstar. - Corbin Be excellent 14:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I haven't checked the mailing list, so I didn't realize she was complaining there. Regardless, I second the comments about trying to give patient advice in the face of abuse. You tried to give her advice and it didn't work; I tried to give her advice and it didn't work either. (And maybe I was too blunt, but I think she needed the reminder that she was exhausting everyone's patience.) I don't think an apology was necessary, but to give one shows class on your part. --Elkman 15:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, guys. I was just typing up an apology to you, Elkman; I blame myself for letting her get in your face like that. I wanted to protect the page myself this morning (UTC), but I just didn't have a minute to spare before leaving for work. Thanks for taking care of it, Andrew. Bishonen | talk 15:34, 23 May 2006 (UTC).
I saw that Dot Bitch character as well...I could have acted myself but got entangled in other things...maybe we both work too much.--MONGO 18:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I want to add my thanks as well. Some may think it's a waste of time, but I agree, always give editors the benefit of the doubt. Even if a disruptive user just goes back to his or her old ways 95% of the time (an arbitrary number, of course), we still gain the 5% as members of the community. Besides... there's always reverts and edit histories to correct any mistakes. I think you did the right thing and fully support your decisions. Tijuana BrassE@ 23:47, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

A barnstar for you

A Barnstar!
The Barnstar of Diligence

From CorbinSimpson to Bishonen for excellence in personal conduct, May 23, 2006. - Corbin Be excellent

This is for being excellent to others, assuming good faith, and being a truly good administrator. For being one of the kindest, most honest, and yes, most awesome administrators, I award you the Barnstar of Diligence. Thank you. - Corbin Be excellent 01:31, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Corbin! I appreciate it. Bishonen | talk 14:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC).

The big picture

Well, I did check it on the web but could not figure out why it was so big. I even tried to upload more than once. Thank for warning me, sorry for the mess I made. :) --Aleph73 17:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

No, no, you didn't make a mess — did you not mean for it to show up that big on Leigh Hunt either? See, it's perfect to upload it big. You're supposed to always upload the best and biggest images you can lay your hands on. Don't try to shrink them. Then you can determine exactly what size you want displayed in the article by putting in the number of pixels (for width) in the image syntax. Example: type [[Image:LeighHunt5.jpg||thumb|150px|right|An artist's rendering of James Henry Leigh Hunt]]. That'll make it show up 150 pixels wide. In fact, uh, I see you removed the pixel indication, 100px, that was already there in Leigh Hunt. Bishonen | talk 18:39, 23 May 2006 (UTC). P.S. Just, never try to display an image bigger than actual size, because that looks horrible.

Sock investigation

I know this dispute of mine is taking to much time but you may want to consider taking a look at WP:ANB/I#Sock_investigation.

What other evidence in your view would be more convincing?

--Cat out 07:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Love, tender and ever-green

Since everyone is expressing undying love and admiration for you these days, I bring you Charles Molloy. Now that is how to marry. Geogre 19:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I know, the wiki has gone insane, completely insane, I love it! I love you, too! Bishonen | talk 22:13, 24 May 2006 (UTC).

Aye, but ha' you got a £20,000 inheritance (x30 for year 2000 values)? I just got A Miscellany of the Wits. Alas, it has The History of John Bull, which is happy happy, but it doesn't have the Treatise on Political Lying. Then again, it has quite a bit of William King (the funny one, not the Jacobite one), but not his funny stuff. This is what you get when the book has gothic typeface and was edited by someone "M.A." in 1920. The unfunny bits of funny people. Still, beggar's mustn't be choosers. (The book came to me from a Houston bookstore, and it got to them from a Special Collections, of all things. It's a 1st ed. Sic transit gloria mundi. Geogre 23:45, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

OK this may seem like a random comment but you historic types might appreciate it. I started at Molloy and was just randomly popping around... here's the links I followed: Charles Molloy -> Middle Temple -> Knights Templar -> Templar (disambiguation) -> Simon Templar -> Leslie Charteris -> Colonel Francis Charteris... a person I could swear was talked about on this very page. ++Lar: t/c 00:04, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
On mine, actually, but, what's more, you began and ended with something I worked on today. Having just gotten the A Miscellany of the Wits, I had access to Arbuthnot's "epitaph on Don Fransisco," which is about Charteris. I began the day writing Molloy and ended it adding a few lines from Arbuthnot to Charteris. :-) Charteris prompted me to scan the engravings from A Harlot's Progress, and the gallery there got me writing paragraphs about the plates, and that got ALoan and me looking for some of the scandalous figures. The DNB of 2004 has huge holes in it. It didn't have James Dalton, for example, and ALoan did that one. A lot of my recent mini-bios have been the result of my not finding the interesting figure I've sought in the DNB and deciding that I can't come back empty-handed and therefore seizing anyone 1660-1790 who looks slightly interesting or literary. Geogre 02:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Coolness indeed. I bet that gets you a lot more girls than any chestwig ever would. ++Lar: t/c 04:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Umm, pretty much the same number. (Zero's a number, isn't it?) Oh, I had a student make eyes, but that's more unbelievably unthinkable every year. (I keep getting older. They don't.) Geogre 10:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Sometime if we ever have beers together I'll tell you my student stories (I was just a chem lab instructor, (I was a senior, they were frosh) but it was an easy way to improve one's chem grade, or so they thought)... You coming to Wikimania??? If you are I have a proposal for you... ++Lar: t/c 13:07, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Where and when is it this time? I might be drawing paychecks at that point and be able to, unlike last year or the year before, and being proposed to.... A bit sudden, you know. (I had a student write on the back of his final exam, once, "Please bare with me." I wrote underneath it, "It won't help your grade.") (I also had one and only one, in all my years, eligible young lady call me up with interest. However, I did the right thing, alas.) Geogre 13:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
see [18].... it's in Cambridge MA, 4-6 August. And it wasn't that kind of a proposal, I'm trying to organise a roundtable on community norms.
August 4-6.... It's possible. It's actually possible this time. I want to get up to Providence, and I think that's my break between sessions. Interesting. I'm going to note it on my calendar and see what I can find out. (I'm a norm! Not as good as being a norn, but better than being a "normon," as I think people are usually calling me.) Geogre 15:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Would you like to try being Narn, or Morn? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I know the Norns (aka Palestinians), but Morn? I could never watch that show enough to know who the characters were, except for the astoundingly pretty Molly O'Brien (and she's even more astoundingly pretty in What Dreams May Come). The fact that they had a Morn is kind of what was wrong with that show. B5, on the other hand, had brains and action. Geogre 20:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


I was in a bad mood due to my impending high school graduation, but your talk page never ceases to amuse me, and given your sense or humor and love of bizarre accolades and slightly strange praise, I hope you appreciate this thank you as well. Have a nice/pleasant/suspiciously frog-free (insert appropriate time element here), and keep up the good work. RyanGerbil10 19:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Ryan, that was the very word I was looking for for my indefatiguably talkpage-posting friends: bizarre! Have a good graduation! Bishonen | talk 22:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC).

CorbinSimpson's Request for Adminship

Symbol oppose vote.png
Thanks for voting in my request for administrator rights, even though it failed (13/30/4). Sadly, work has forced me to respond to you all using a substituted message rather than a personalized response. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that administrators, to me, should be chosen and approved by the community, and I will continue working to become a better editor and Wikipedian. No matter what the alignment of your vote was, I will take your comments seriously and use them to improve myself. If you wish to discuss your comments personally with me, I would be more than glad to talk about things since the RfA is now over; just leave your concern on my talk page and we will sort things out. Thanks again for voting, and happy editing! - Corbin Be excellent


Blocked for 1 week. You had blocked it for 48 hr. It came back with two vandalism attacks on your talk page, then removal of warnings from its own page. I therefore upped the block to a week. Geogre 23:53, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, and thanks to all who helped revert my special little "friend". Bishonen | talk 00:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC).


El C cat picture 4.jpg
El C cat picture 5.jpg

Sorry, I got in late today again. Therefore, here are pictures of kitty, before and during kissy (my face is blanked for extrakissy secrecy!). El_C 04:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

There's a face! Let's all have kisses and fresh sardines for breakfast! Bishonen | talk 08:12, 25 May 2006 (UTC). Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg Heringmini.jpg

I once greatly confused kitty, by placing some sardines in a bowl and eating it straight from the bowl (only using my mouth) while he was also chomping on it (hygine is always key!), and I pretended to eat like him, with little chomp-chomp-chomps. Hilarities ensued, probably! El_C 07:18, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

File:Lion snarling.jpg
Are you bothering my cousin, little doggy?
You were saying, lion?

Kissy kissy? Feed me, Seymour!!
For you, Frepzilla, the live sardines! Mmmm, wiggly! FreplySpang 17:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism revert

Thanks for taking care of the vandalism on my user page. A merry band of Smugface dwarves have taken it upon themselves to deface it, something that I've found far, far more entertaining than frustrating. Part of me hopes that he won't give up too soon because I'm enjoying the usernames so much. Tijuana BrassE@ 17:07, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Typo in Mood

Bish, your Mood Rouge Admin means Red Admin. If you meant Rogue, you've done a typo. :) Bo-Lingua 20:27, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Philip Sandifer

There is no way this qualifies as a speedy. Please restore it. --SPUI (T - C) 22:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh.... Hmmm. Hmmm. Pretty much A7. There really isn't much of a claim of notability, and comic book studies.... Yeah, well. Charges aren't notability. A complaint isn't notability. All I see is the puffery of the web by the web and as legitimate a CSD as "Strik3r clan is awesomest on Dungunlordz board." Pixels on screens and bytes on a copper disk...the worst sort of vanity, because it's ephemeral vanity. Geogre 02:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Also, isn't wp:drv where you go to complain about deletions? Not the deleting admin's page. Geogre 02:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Correction: I see that the discussion is underway at WP:DRV, so no need for any unilateral undeletion. (And I'm absolutely no fan of Snowspinner's, as my comments at DRV will show. This is no answer, though. It smacks of "outing" someone, and that's just silly.) Geogre 02:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
OMG - have you seen this? I had no idea... -- ALoan (Talk) 10:21, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm never sure if anybody's actually talking to me on this page. I've seen it. Bishonen | talk 10:26, 26 May 2006 (UTC).
I haven't seen it. (Go to a LiveJournal page? Ick.) Yes, Bishonen, people are talking to you, but it was middle of the night for you. Turns out I was guilty of friendly fire. I mean and meant no attack on the authors of the article, whose motives could have been pure, but I still don't like articles like that and am suspicious of some of this one's defenders. Geogre 12:47, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I've seen it. The principle mistake -- believing that doodads are important -- is replicated by arguing about the lack of importance of the doodads, IMO. I may be anti-MFA, though (for non-Usonians, that's the "master of fine arts," even though Phil's in a combined program). I've known too many earnest youngsters caught in the poisonous cycle of writing to celebrate themselves. Geogre 12:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


You are welcome, it was a pleasure.Smiley.png.--Dakota ~ 17:24, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


Would tomorrow be OK? I'm going to be out of the house. Geogre 19:24, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, sure. Bishonen | talk 19:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC).

Maybe I was a little too sarcastic in my response to the image tagger on my talk page. (Someone doesn't like the picture of Benedict Joseph Labre because it's too sissy looking, I think.) And people wonder why I go ape over taggers. Geogre 02:23, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Dear Bishonen

You are right, dear Bishonen - I was extremeley blind, and now, after further review, I see why. This is so wrong. I'll change my vote immediately, and I hope this "noticeboard" is deleted for good. Kisses, Phaedriel tell me - 11:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Aww, you're just not a nasty old cynic like me. Bishonen | talk 11:21, 28 May 2006 (UTC).


>mail< —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 00:03, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Bishonen | talk 00:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC).

Oh, lordy, imperatives again. <sigh> Geogre 02:16, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Dont't be sarcastic Geogre - people may think we you are a grumpy old bunny! Giano | talk 08:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, yes, don't call the devil's name or spit into the wind or say "Betleguese" three times fast or feed the trolls or pour waters on Gremlins. Geogre 12:16, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Now now Geogre don't be testy - we know you're not really like that. It is a lovely wikipedia morning, the sun is shining, the nasty old wicked witch has flown off on her broomstick (No, not you Bishonen dear, don't be uber sensitive) - so be happy. Why doesn't that nice BoG, so something useful and bake us all a cake or something, perhaps we could ask Freppie round and have a party, you never know even ALoan and Paul August might pop by, at least we don't have to worry about gatecrashers. Giano | talk 12:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Party?? Shall I bring the tasty treats? FreplySpang 13:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Freptreats yum yum! Bishonen | talk 13:57, 29 May 2006 (UTC).
Wingnuts frappé? Giano, I don't believe in reincarnation, but I keep seeing one particular ghost materializing in several coats of flesh. Geogre 14:49, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Unrelated to anything, but it's simply amazing what some people do with boxes. This is hilarious. Need to steal a kidney or provide a blood transfusion? What absurdity. Geogre 14:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I've heard blood types are used like astrological signs in Japan, and have heard horror stories of things like people being rejected for jobs because they had incompatible types. Which doesn't make it less stupid. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
No lets stick to to Freppy's treats, I dislike offal - are we having any music at this party - something classical and tasteful I think. Giano | talk 15:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
/me starts to hum Momus' "Bishonen" rather loudly and tonelessly. Will that do? Bishonen | talk 16:22, 29 May 2006 (UTC).

I was thinking more romantic and nostalgic like:-

They, asked me how I knew,
If Freppie's love was true,
I of course replied, something here inside,
Can not be denied. (1973. Blue Haze) ......pass me a Marlborough lite someone, I've suddenly become quite emotional Giano | talk 19:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Plano SHS again

Hey Bishonen. I really appreciate the help that you gave me in the Plano Senior High School peer review. Your eyes helped me to see the US-centrism with which I was writing. I am hoping to send PSHS up for FAC soon and I would appreciate if you could take a brief look at the article, particularly the lead, as it is the part that has changed most since you saw it last. I really appreciate any help you could give. Thanks so much! — Scm83x hook 'em 00:17, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I'll take a look as soon as I can. Bishonen | talk 06:35, 29 May 2006 (UTC).