User talk:CaroleHenson/Archive 3

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Woodhall Spa

WOW! Thanks so much for taking the time to look in on that page and helping out. It looks a lot better for it. Well done! Panderoona (talk) 07:25, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

My pleasure! It sounds like an interesting town. If you want further help with it, just let me know.--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:08, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
yes its quite an interesting place, although I think over time some of the pages editors got a bit carried away. Ive been there a few times, and have swam in the pool and seen the Kinema (although Ive never been in it.) Now that youve re-arranged it it seems easier to work with, and your agreement that some parts should be condensed spurred me to have a go at it. Thanks Panderoona (talk) 16:24, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Your welcome. I'll let you work your magic for a couple of days and check back in for editing. As you mentioned in your email, I see Acabashi is chipping, in too. That makes it fun! I'm glad you are enjoying writing about your nearby towns! Great work.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:36, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
I feel very lucky that I have some good people behind me pointing me in the right direction and helping me to learn. I really was flummoxed with how to go about setting Woodhall Spa out in a logical way, simply cos Im not used to big articles. I learnt from what you did - and had no idea you could put two images together the way you did. So the learning goes on :) I wouldnt call them my nearby towns though, I live in Surrey, over 100 miles from Lincolnshire - Its just where I go on my hols cos my family came from there and the rest of them are still there. Perhaps thats what makes the place so special. Panderoona (talk) 20:13, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Wonderful information!!! I had to add nowiki to the last part so you'd see this: Thanks! You do so much on the Van Gogh articles that I didn't want to bother you about this. If you have any further suggestions, that would be great! Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:29, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Tyrenius is the brilliant editor who made the template and has helped many of us when we started here...Modernist (talk) 16:54, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
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Hello, CaroleHenson. You have new messages at Yworo's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hard working

Here's something for you [1]...Modernist (talk) 04:53, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, good video and song about a sad point in history. I'm guessing you saw the harvest and freedom faces articles.--CaroleHenson (talk) 12:56, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
I actually haven't seen those articles, I just think it's a great song by a great singer, written by a great songwriter. I sent you something btw...Modernist (talk) 14:05, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
What fun! How synchronistic. Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:09, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
I like the I Ching also [2] :)...Modernist (talk) 15:21, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
Yep. Love it!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:34, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
Speaking of Carl Jung (your link), I tripped upon an interesting article when looking for Taos artists: [Jung Speaks With Mountain Lake]--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:43, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Powerful stuff, as he says in his forward to the I Ching we in the west think cause and effect without embracing synchronicity but rather explaining it as coincidence. Jackson Pollock on the verge of his major breakthrough as an artist underwent Jungian therapy [3], thinking with the heart, embracing coincidence, risking the unknown and trusting the invisible is how great art gets made...Modernist (talk) 02:24, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Absolutely! What you said triggered so many thoughts, that I don't want to overwhelm you with words. Suffice it to say the reference to Pollack is very interesting - and even though I'm living a very type-A world right now to get my brain back to it's best performance, I'm steeped and well schooled in eastern religion and philosophy and as I'm going through a transitional period I am very much using this time to sort out what's in my heart, risking the unknown and trusting that the calmness that I feel is an awareness of the potential in the unknown. (Shortened from what could have been a five page response. ;) )--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:45, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Yeah...Modernist (talk) 02:47, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Tireless Contributor Barnstar.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For all your work on the visual arts, Taos and related...Modernist (talk) 14:48, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Modernist, that's very thoughtful of you!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:37, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


Hi Carole, I noticed from your user page that you have a few newly created articles. I think you should consider submitting the new ones to WP:DYK for a couple of reasons. I don't believe we have many articles covering Native artists and it's nice to see two of them created so quickly. Also, when I first started no one told me about DYK, didn't have a clue what it was our how to submit, although I was expanding and creating content (I tend to expand and tidy more than create). Anyway, I thinks it's a nice reward for hard work, and it's a good way to enter the review processes. So, thought I'm mention. I'd be happy to help if you have questions. Later in the day, I'll probably swing through though those pages for a quick MoS polish. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 14:08, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, that's very thoughtful of you! I'll try and come up with a DYK fact for one of the three artists, possibly that Juan Mirabal's View of Taos inspired a poem titled Taos Pueblo."--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:28, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Well I've not been prolific enough to do this, but I think you can do all three at once. Something like: "Did you know that Native American Taos Pueblo artists Albert Looking Elk, Juan Mirabal, and Albert Lujan were known as the "Three Taos Pueblo" painters?" Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:26, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Good idea, thanks TK!
I added it to the nomination list, but I've never done it before and not sure I did it right. I am guessing that I need to bookmark this page and watch for comments added to Template talk:Did you know#Three Pueblo artists--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:49, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Non-free files in your user space

Hey there CaroleHenson, thank you for your contributions. I am a bot, alerting you that non-free files are not allowed in user or talk space. I removed some files I found on User:CaroleHenson. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your user-space drafts or your talk page.

  • See a log of files removed today here.
  • Shut off the bot here.
  • Report errors here.

Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:03, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Good catch! I fogot the Helga painting had limited use.--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:14, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Albert Looking Elk

Materialscientist (talk) 18:03, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Juan Mirabal

Materialscientist (talk) 18:03, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Albert Lujan

Materialscientist (talk) 18:03, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Materialscientist!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:30, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

We're recruiting art lovers!

Archives of American Art Wikimedia Partnership - We need you!
Collections Storage Archives of American Art.jpg
Hi! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the Smithsonian Archives of American Art and I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about art to participate in furthering art coverage on Wikipedia. I am planning contests and projects that will allow you access, no matter where you live, to the world's largest collection of archives related to American art. Please sign up to participate here, and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 00:14, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Sounds interesting, it would be great to hear more. I added my name to the list.--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:02, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
I quit after 30 seconds, - sent you something...Modernist (talk) 04:13, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Frederick Sandys

Hi Carole - wonder if you would be interested in collaboration? I have just visited the Anthony Frederick Augustus Sandys page. He was an artist more usually known as Frederick Sandys. Im actually distantly related to his model, Keomi Gray, which is how I became aware of him. She bore him several children - but most of that as far as I know comes under original research, but thats the genealogist in me Ive found lots of them. Anyway, the page as it stands has no sources? Panderoona (talk) 21:27, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi, sure sounds like fun! How would you like to approach the work - or break the next steps down?--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:07, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Not sure as first time I have approached a larger article in regard to the arts. Would benefit from your experience. There are only a few refs to him so I would suggest finding more citations probably the most important issue at first? Panderoona (talk) 00:50, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Sure, I've started on illustrations/drawings and did a little arranging, mostly just putting things into sections. See what you think. And, I answered back on the article talk page. It's fun to be working with you again!--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:51, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Youve worked your magic on it already, it looks a hundred times better. I knew it was the right thing to do to ask you :) Panderoona (talk) 09:22, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
You're so sweet! My pleasure, it's an interesting article - and fun working with you! I'll catch up with you in a couple of hours. (Have been trying to wind down but cafeinne in the meds for a migraine have kept me up. But I think I'm there now, finally!) Talk to you in awhile.--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Whilst times are frantic here, ie grandson due today, daddys aspiration tomorrow, Wikpedia keeps me grounded which is what I need right now. I trust you, I trust Sitush, I trust Acabashi to plug away until the real and sometimes confusing facts are revealed. The only problem after that is keeping it that way. I believe we all sing from the same hymnsheet when it comes to verifying our information. Tomorrow is always another day in which we can gather more - and if "real life" dares to rear its ugly head as it may do - please take on board the info I can and have offered, and run with it in whichever way you can - because I have learn't a lot in my time here, and you are not stepping on toes. Whatever we can put out there, should be put out there. Despite my daddys history, Im not much of an artist, but I must confess I do enjoy the pre-raphaelite paintings Ive found. Panderoona (talk) 19:51, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Ok, sounds good! I would disagree about you not learning much here - you've done a great job so far! (There just always seems to be more to learn or nuances to clarify.) Yes, I'm really enjoying Sandys' works - I never knew of him before. I'll be sending lots of good vibes across the sea for the baby and your dad!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:58, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
bless you, I said I HAD learnt a lot - about not getting overemotional over articles and pointing those who I know are good or better than me in the direction Id like to see them go to improve something far more than I could - as per the Fred Sandys page. Youve done a fantastic job, and Im really pleased with it. No grandson yet, and daddys aspiration remains a mystery still under further investigation. Troubling times. Wiki is a bit of an escape right now and no mistake :) Best wishes xxx Panderoona (talk) 19:17, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm still sending good healthy thoughts your way. Waitings always the hard part, isn't it? Whenever you're ready to pick up on the article, let me know -- I was waiting until you were ready.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:25, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
dont wait if you have info, go for it :) thats what I mean about learning to let go - You know, I really like pre-raphaelite art and I dont know why!. Panderoona (talk) 19:39, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Elizabeth Hickok Robbins Stone

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A tag has been placed on Elizabeth Hickok Robbins Stone requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Cind.amuse 13:09, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

See comments on Talk:Elizabeth Hickok Robbins Stone--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:45, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Talk page blanking

Referring to your recent comment elsewhere.

Talk page blanking is when, well, you blank your talk page. Usually this refers to deleting everything that is on it. Of course, it is still available from the history tab. Sometimes people use the term to refer to blanking specific items on the page, eg: if you get a warning and delete that warning but leave the other content in situ. In either event, blanking is regarded as you agreeing that you have read what ever it is that you blank. The place would be anarchic if this was not the case.

There is a difference between talk page blanking and archiving, although I guess that it can be a fine line. If you want to be sure not to overstep the mark regarding blanking then set up automatic archiving. You can set this to move content from the TP to the archive at any time period you choose (1 day, 2 days, 1 week, 3 months, 1 year etc). You can also set the size of each archive so that they do not accumulate too much stuff.

There are situations where blanking really is sensible, and you may find that people do this for you. Usually, you should not fiddle with someone else's talk page unless it is your own comment. And even if it is your own comment, it is preferable not to fiddle with that comment if someone else has subsequently responded to it or if more than a few minutes' time have passed (either event could be construed as an attempt to move the goalposts, and most of us know how difficult it is to hit a moving target). The usual sensible situation is when you get (or see on someone else's page) a blatant spate of incoming vandalism or a gross personal attack. Some people are prone to being targeted, and admins almost by definition are more prone because they are often dealing in contentious areas. As a rule, if in doubt then leave it alone - someone else will come along and deal with it, or the talk page owner will do so themselves.

This is your talk page. You are entitled to blank pretty much anything that you choose, in full cognisance that the community will assume that you have read whatever it is you blanked. I am aware of only one exception to this and that is if you receive a block, in which case the notice is supposed to stay in place until the block from editing expires. However, there has been a recent discussion at AN or ANI about this recently and I rather feel that particular exception may be up in the air at the moment. In any event, if you should not blank something then it tells you not to do so.

Obviously, blanking can be construed as avoidance of an issue by involved parties, even though in fact it avoids nothing because of the cognisance. My suggestion would be not to blank unless circumstances are exceptional. Just roll with what ever happens and archive on a regular basis, consistently archiving from the oldest posts forward.

One aspect that is considered to be refactoring is where you change your own comments as described above in my "moving target" analogy. However, I am off to bed and will leave that explanation until tomorrow. - Sitush (talk) 01:48, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Sitush! We can catch up another time re: refactoring. I read the grouping of issues under refactoring for a second time today and will re-read later. I need a break from this whole set of conversations and drama. I will watch for edits to the Owl Woman article and take things one step at a time from there. Thanks again!--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:07, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Removing from my TP

Hi Carole, the case where you recently removed a part of a comment you had previously added to my talk page is an example of refactoring. Don't worry about it in this instance but you really should not do this unless making the change within moments of your original post and prior to anyone responding to it. What you can do is strike the comment using <s> and </s> around the bit you want to strike. Like this. To do otherwise just causes confusion for people.

You can see a big example of striking just above the section you have contributed to on my TP, where TK struck out an entire message. - Sitush (talk) 15:14, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the heads up! That's an easy way to go about it!
I know you're really busy right now, but I do intend to circle back on the core refactoring issue from the other day (e.g., that I initially put things in sections (sectioning/resectioning), that it was desired to not insert comment within the original text, etc.). I think when I tried to fix it, I think I misunderstood and made it worse. I know something happened that made it became worse for me, because I lost where comments were being added.
I also hope you know that my "ridiculous" comment on your talk page was not aimed at you. I wanted to give you a barnstar for your efforts for the greater good while under fire, but thought that might have just inflamed things - so there's a virtual one for you!--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I know I got overexcited the other day! I was just so over it! Sorry.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:27, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) My mother seems to know a lot about Nair and is making ridiculous uncited claims regarding the depilatory habits of that Indian caste on the article talk page. Countering her contributions is indeed time-consuming. Honestly, if you think that you have been in a few scrapes then you want to try editing articles about Indian castes, then you'll soon learn how to develop an extremely thick skin.
I you do strike, then probably best to say so in your edit summary. eg: strike part of my comment made at 10:02. Although of course it is easy to tell anyway from the history, there is a certain courtesy involved in not creating more work for others by forcing them to go to the history. - Sitush (talk) 15:32, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Funny! Good luck with that! Yep, I get your point about the strike-out, I'll do that next time instead of removing text - and note the edit summary accordingly.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:38, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Sitush, Thanks for giving me time to circle back to refactoring - it was one of the most frustrating parts of the conversation for me as we tried to work through the examples, so a cool-down period helped me a lot. So that I can ensure I don't refactor in the future, I recreated the information in chronological order User:CaroleHenson/Carole Henson Close Paraphrase Archive to better understand what the issue was. The history tells me that:

  • The initial issue seems to be that I put TK's information into sections.
  • Based upon complaints of refactoring and a look at the link about refactoring, I copied her text in full from history so that the full block was intact above the sections. I left the (now) duplicated examples in the sections below the intact original block of examples.
  • Based upon further complaints about refactoring, I then removed the sections and the duplicated example information. And moved the comments under each of the examples, so that: 1) TK's examples were intact and 2) comments were indented under the examples.

You seemed to get straight away what TK meant by refactoring, so I thought you could help me with this: It seems the problem was me putting things into sections. How should I have added comments: under each individual example or in a chronological order below the initial block of examples? Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Just spotted your comment here ^. It is a messy one to explain but there is little doubt that what you did made it more messy. In fact, I got so confused that I ended up just ploughing my own furrow, which I guess proves the point.
Basically, don't bugger about with someone else's contributions unless there is an extreme situation. And if there is an extreme situation then bugger about as little as possible to resolve the issue. Which all leads to the subjective area of what constitutes an extreme situation, so the preceding is not much use as advice, then!
However, I quite regularly refactor on talk pages for exactly the situation to which you refer, and at least so far have met with no complaints. Bear in mind that of late I have been heavily involved in articles for which there have been a high percentage of "newbie" and/or "English as a second language" contributors.
I was somewhat surprised that TK did not think it worthwhile to number her original points but, hey, we all have our reasons and we all know that things could be done differently with hindsight. And perhaps she did, but it was lost by your subsequent refactoring. Basically, when I refactor for a situation such as this what I do is insert a number against each point raised. Nothing more than that, not even a line break etc (although if the indenting has gone odd, as often happens with inexperienced contributors, then I'll add the requisite ":"'s to neaten it up). I then state in my edit summary that I have refactored with numbers for ease of reference in any responses. Then I start a new conversation answering the (now numbered) points. If the list is particularly short then sometimes I just use bullet points and then in my reply say "taking your points in the order you mentioned them ..."
Curiously, the major exceptions to this rule have been in the GANs I have gone through. In all three of them I specifically asked the GA reviewer whether they would prefer that I respond to their various points "inline" (which is pretty much what I think you were trying to do earlier in the week here) or whether they would like me to respond as a block below their comments. As far as I can recall, all three of them were content with which ever method suited me, and in these instances inline was clearly the way to go (well, that is what I thought, anyway). These reviewers know their stuff, as indeed does TK, so it just goes to show how subjective it can be. Obviously, asking first eliminates any doubt and is a courtesy, but other than for the GAs I cannot recall asking, but do make it absolutely clear that I have added the numbering etc.
I would be surprised if TK had an issue with the basic numbering idea. My feeling is that things were a little more messy than this but the situation became so messy, so quickly, that I lost the will to live in trying to sort out who had done what and where. This rather proves TK's point. Even more so since, ultimately, even you - the person who refactored - got confused! - Sitush (talk) 00:25, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
For what it's worth, my attempts at rectifying the situation made it MUCH worse for me, too! So, I get how confusing it became!
If I understand you correctly, the best way to approach this kind of situation in the future with other is:
  • Number the multiple items - and note in the edit summary that numbers were inserted
  • Add any comments below the original, using the appropriate numbers. Is that right?--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:11, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
That is how I do it, so my comments are not interspersed with the original. The exception, as I say, has been the GANs but in those cases I specifically asked the person conducting the GAN review how they would like me to respond. I can dig out some examples if you need them, but am off to bed shortly. - Sitush (talk) 01:16, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
No thanks, I don't need examples - that makes perfect sense!--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:32, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
And, I didn't have any issues on my two good article reviews, so I think I'm good now and have a nice, straightforward solution for the future.--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:38, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Owl Woman

Sorry, Carole, but my original intent of just hunting and fixing any close paraphrases at Owl Woman is turning into something else altogether! I've only got as far as the marriage but have amended quite substantially in order to provide context. I may indeed be going too far "the other way" in doing this as there is always the necessity to consider focus when writing an article. However, I hope that you can see some positives in it. As always, feel free to challenge/edit etc.

It is a long, long time since I watched a western film and when I did it would not have been subtitled (ie: I would not have understood much of it), but this is actually quite a fascinating subject. I could get hooked! And right at my side I have, by pure coincidence, three biographies that I bought some years ago & have not yet read: Geronimo: The man, his time, his place, Tecumseh: a life of America's greatest Indian leader, and The Lance and The Shield: The life and times of Sitting Bull. I have maybe 6,000 books here and, oddly, these are among perhaps 30 or 40 that I have not actually read. There are probably a further dozen that I have tried to read but given up on, most notably James Joyce's Ulysses (several times!). If people will forgive my political incorrectness, I could be moving from one type of Indian subject area to another ... - Sitush (talk) 00:02, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Add one to my list of tried and failed, umpteen times. Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. I can cope ok with Wittgenstein etc, but jeez ... - Sitush (talk) 00:53, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I'll take a edit-by-edit review of it. Thanks for all your hard work! I'm hearing that in addition to "close paraphrasing" there were other issues that you felt needed to be / felt compelled to work on. Is there a way to characterize the issues for me?
I, too, am fascinated by Native Americans. In down-sizing I gave a shelf-full of books recently to a friend for a Native American library. And, the first thing friends ask when they come to my home and see the different books, spread out across rooms by subject is - have you read all of those? So, while I don't have as many as you, I do get it!--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:18, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
You are mishearing <g> There is/was a close paraphrasing issue and there were one or two cites that had lost their way as happened at Gwladys, but otherwise all looks like it will be ok. I just think that there is more that can be said in one sense and, oddly, that too much was said in another. This is highly subjective. Do not assume that I am correct. It would be interesting to get another opinion as and when I get to the end of it. - Sitush (talk) 01:25, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Sitush, I was referring to: "but my original intent of just hunting and fixing any close paraphrases at Owl Woman is turning into something else altogether!" from your first sentence. Especially the "something else altogether".--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:27, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Ah. By that I meant I was delving deeper and expanding, rather than just trying to spot and fix. - Sitush (talk) 01:31, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:37, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── The article has really come along - you made it much more polished - and interesting, with more background information to set the tone! Great job!

A couple of things:

  • Saw your comment about "specificity" - is that a term not used in England?
  • "Mutuality" was a new one for me.
  • Aside from the changes in citations for Nelson, I made a few more edits, but overall am extremely impressed with how it's progressed!--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:05, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
  • Oh, one more thing: after I made the changes to cites for Nelson I saw your comment about not needing to place the citations in-line because the content was not questionable (or something like that). Where I broke some of the citations out to be more in-line, can we just leave it that way? If someone comes along to do a review, it will make it a little easier for them.--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:15, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
I've seen "specificity" somewhere but it sort of grates with me. Probably does something even worse if a person is unfortunate enough to be afflicted with a lisp. I am pretty sure about "mutuality" but feel free to amend.
I'm not trawling back to check, but I think what drew me to the cite issue was that there ended up being, say, two consecutive sentences each cited to Nelson and neither referred to a page, so it would have been ok just to cite at the end of the second sentence for both of these points. Or something like that. No big deal: it is another of those subjective things. Quotes should always be cited/attributed; for anything else, where the statement is not contentious or there are consecutive cites to the exact same source/page, duplication seems to be clutter. Doing it your way is certainly accurate, whereas doing it my way reduces the extent to which WP articles resemble coloring books. There is no need to cite or link to the bleeding obvious, although that does not apply in this instance anyway. I once saw an article where "human" was linked multiple times to human - that is an example not only of the bleeding obvious but indeed of overlinking. - Sitush (talk) 09:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Nope, no need to change mutuality - I just thought it was interesting.
The original issue, I think was where there was a: Varnell8, Halaas(don't remember the page), then Varnell8 cite. That's where I needed to pop back in Varnell8 because Halass alone did not cover the information written.
If there were two in a row, my resolution would have been to remove one of them. Does that make sense?--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:06, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Missed your reply above, sorry. Yes, it makes sense. I've been trying to untangle some stuff but feel that we're getting there. It isn't helped by my distinctly iffy US geography.
Oddly, I am still struggling to understand why she was inducted into the Hall of Fame. Varnell seems to me to be utterly useless on the point, as is Nelson - they're both way too vague even though they are the two sources closest to the institution. Sure, it is an interesting story and it meets WP;N, but other than a (not uncommon, apparently) marriage to a white man and her inherited status, what did she actually do to warrant induction? There is next to nothing, so far, to demonstrate that she was significant in keeping the peace etc and not a lot to demonstrate the vague points about how the union enhanced inter-tribal relationships or whatever. None of this is your fault: it is down to the sources. I am astonished that the HoF does not appear to have more to say about her role. I do understand that info about the period will be vague - poor documents, a lot of oral history etc - but some of the discrepancies between the sources are also a little frustrating. However, this last point can be resolved in our situation: we just show all of the alternatives. - Sitush (talk) 00:26, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
I agree with you that it's difficult to tease out. I have the book of women who were inducted into the CWHF and it's not done haphardardly, but it is difficult to find info. True, positive efforts during that time that helped to promote Native American-Euro American relations are rare. From what I can gather, she had a significant role at the fort, especially during times that there were caravan runs - where when she flashes her mirror people see that it's her and let the caravan pass into Native American lands - it seems it's hinted that without her the caravan may not have made safe passage. There are many references to her assisting in the peace negotiations with Bent - but there are no concrete examples. Bent and her relationship, the fact that they traveled with the tribe to Big Timbers, and often lived with them - helps to promote the idea of the bridging of the two cultures. At a time when, if I understand correctly, Native American wives of European American men would have been convenient relationships, her relationship with William Bent was an important relationship amongst her tribe, the fort and neighboring tribes.
I think that there's likely more and better information in "Owl Woman: her life with William Bent", Sandy Dexter, Wolf River Productions, 2008 - 89 pages. I'll take a look and see if one of the city library's branches or has the book.--00:42, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Found this blurb, will keep looking: Southern Colorado author Sandy Dexter has done her research, telling her historical tale from a unique perspective. While many may be familiar with the story of Bent’s Fort (located along the old Santa Fe Trail), Dexter portray s this story from a female perspective; bringing to the spotlight the role that women played in the settlement of the west. Rarely acknowledged (but always in the background), Dexter tells the tale of Owl Woman, Cheyenne Indian wife of William Bent; illustrating her strength and heroism, and portraying the depth of love she held for William and he for her with understanding and compassion. Practices of the times are realistically described and explained, and historical facts that made Bent’s Fort a central hub of merging cultures are presented in a colorful and entertaining manner. This book is well written and a must read for Colorado history buffs.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:44, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
It is at the main library downtown and I could go get it or order it to be delivered by the branch by me - if you think it would be helpful and you would consider the source reliable. ISBN 9780615209579--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:00, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
I was going to do a trawl for sources but the more that you can sort out, the better (as you have done on the article TP). My suspicion is that I'll not be able to access anything that is not online. TK's comment about the problems of sourcing the really critical bit are helpful but not encouraging news: she's basically confirming that where we're at may be where we'll have to stay. I think that we're all singing from the same hymn sheet on this one.
When we're done, I'll talk you through any points about close paraphrasing that have arisen and which you are unsure about. Hopefully, they're mostly obvious. That, after all, was where this exercise started out at. - Sitush (talk) 10:06, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Regarding looking at other close paraphrasing issues, I did some examples, color coded, on User:CaroleHenson/Working list, could you take a look at those?--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:10, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Self-review: other articles

Sitush, I started the self-review on two other articles - and have some work areas where I have article, source and reworded text that would be great if you could look at tomorrow. The link is: User:CaroleHenson/Working list--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:24, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

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Hello, CaroleHenson. You have new messages at User talk:CaroleHenson/Edited version of Close Paraphrasing.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Olive branch

Olive branch.svg Olive branch
Hi Carole, I'd like to extend an olive branch in hopes that we can overcome our difference. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you ever need help or simply want to chat. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:21, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, TK, that's nice of you!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:22, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Image at Commons

I have hit a total brain-numbness at WP Commons with an image of William Bent. I hate that place with a vengeance and try to avoid uploading as much as possible because I seem never to be able to get my head round the system. You, on the other hand, have I think uploaded a fair few via the art project etc. Do you mind taking a look at it? In particular, I vaguely recall that I was once able to categorize there using HotCat but now I cannot. It needs some categories and I cannot for the life of me work out a simple way to do it ... nor can I work out the normal categorizing method. This is pathetic, I know, but if you can fix then it would be much appreciated.

Also, I am not sure that I have correctly formatted the image in the William Bent article. Is the sizing correct, etc? I just used "thumb". - Sitush (talk) 23:28, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not totally clear what you're looking for help with - it seems like one of them is to figure out what categories need to be added - and then adding them. Fortunately the add part is easy - it's done in "edit" mode and you pop in the category in exactly the same format as for a Wikipedia article. I'll work on that now - and when I'm done you can go into edit mode once you see categories at the very bottom of the screen to see what it looks like in WP Commons world.
Done, I've removed the original category and added four, you can see if you agree.--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:57, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
I think your sizing is fine, but I wonder if there might be a better image to capture out there. Is that possible, do you think?
Oh, I just realized you meant in the article, I was looking at the WP Commons image. I changed it to 300px - and moved up the info for the 2nd image to remove blank lines after the fold.--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:57, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Was there anything else you were looking for help with?--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:45, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Cats and licensing were the issues. The source is a US publication, so perhaps a US licence would be better? Do not ask me why because I cannot explain, but cats just blow me out of the water. I simply do not get them at all. The markup is easy enough, but working out which to use etc is just, well, d'uh. There probably is a better image - but there was none in the article & I stumbled across this one via a convoluted route from a source you mentioned on the TP of Owl Woman. Feel free to replace it. - Sitush (talk) 23:55, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, the categories are better now. I'll see if I can hunt up a better image for you.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:00, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
That's better! Don't know if you noticed, but I had a bit of a splurge relating to that source. It has resulted in Silas Bent (judge), which will now have to go on my backburner while I concentrate on your reviews. However, you may like to review User_talk:Drmies#Statewide office and notability. Drmies and LadyofShallot are both admins & so I have made a massive leap of faith when I mentioned my own CP issue there. Happen I think that it will not be a problem, for the reason stated (single source), but that article definitely needs boosting somehow. It is always difficult to avoid CP when there is only one source and the article is biographical: chronology sort of limits inventiveness a bit, and the more so when the single source more or less skims over the subject. - Sitush (talk) 00:09, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
I inserted a better image of Wm. Bent - but it's smaller. We have the benefit of time here. If the image was published before 1923, we're good. I also got it from a federal site.
No, I didn't know, I'll take a look. I'm guessing you're meaning Silas, the father. It looked like he came from an interesting family - and Wm. Bent's children's lives in St. Louis would be interesting to write about, too.
Sure, I'll take a peak at the article you mentioned.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:23, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
New pic is much better, thanks. I just saw one and grabbed it, en passant while checking other things. As we like to say over here, "owt is better than nowt." Were you aware that Wm and his brothers were (allegedly) disfigured quite badly by smallpox during the late 1820s and that, again allegedly, this outbreak delayed the construction of their bases? Off to bed. - Sitush (talk) 00:30, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Oh, I see - it's not a article in someone's workspace - it's from a talk page. Your assumption that being on the Missouri Supreme Court is a statewide office is correct. Here's the article if you'd like Supreme Court of Missouri. I'm making some steam on Frank Weston Benson and am nearly done with my self-review and can take a break from self-reviews for a bit to see what I can find on Silas.
If you like articles about Native Americans, I've done others.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:35, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
I am playing catch-up all over the place at the mo. but, yes, the entire frontier story etc is intriguing me. But I am off to bed. And I shall sleep well now that I have an image consultant ;) - Sitush (talk) 00:47, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


A couple of your articles came in very handy today, thanks again for your hard work...Modernist (talk) 20:47, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, that's very nice of you to say! Good to hear from you!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:55, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


The reason why I didn't present the children of Silas as a list is because some of them are non-notable and I felt it jars. I still do but YMMV. Just explaining my rationale. - Sitush (talk) 11:29, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Ohhh. I thought it might be interesting to mention that one son was a govenor to New Mexico territory, one son went to Japan under Perry, and the roles of the sons in the profitable trading business on the Santa Fe Trail, i.e., Charles first starting out as a trapper for the American Fur Company. Are you suggesting that I revert to the earlier version and not put that in?--CaroleHenson (talk) 11:35, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Not suggesting anything; just explaining why I did what I did. The linked articles seem to cover the detail perfectly ok but if you think it worth expanding in the Silas article then fine by me. I have a dislike of lists in any event and there are guidelines and essays where it is suggested that prose be used rather than lists wherever it is an either/or situation regarding format, I think simply because prose reads better. But it is entirely up to you - just do not be too surprised if someone comes along later and turns it into prose (not me!). - Sitush (talk) 11:39, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Yep, I run into both sides of the list argument (i.e., absolutely use it when it makes sense, just don't overuse; avoid use). I don't mind if anyone changes it to prose later. I think it would be nice to have the information in the article. I keep running into it for the William Bent article and thought it might be nice to add. I'll take a look at it, though, when I get more information in there and see if it needs reformatting.--CaroleHenson (talk) 11:45, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
After a few hours dealing with yet more India-related issues, I finally got to look at Silas. You might want to consider taking the Allen Bent book to WP:RSN as I am not 100% about its reliability. I saw the book when I created the article and thought "nope, it is effectively a self-published genealogy", but then got dragged away before checking things further. The author clearly has a massive COI and it is highly unlikely to have been peer-reviewed etc, so someone may make trouble over it. I could be wrong but it might pay you to cover the bases now by getting a view from RSN. - Sitush (talk) 19:25, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Here are my thoughts. I know we have a difference of opinion sometimes on what is an allowable source, so I'll give you my reasoning here and see where that takes us:

  • The information is compatible with much of the information in William Van Ness Bay's Reminiscences of the bench and bar of Missouri and other sources, which seems to give it a sense of reliability.
  • I've not found any inaccurate information there, except for Silas' date of birth, which I call out in the notes.
  • I realize it's a genealogy book which can make it suspect, but: a) It's cited by books about the Bent's - I cannot remember all, but I know that I read in several places comparisons to this book, 2) it was from the Harvard Library (I thought one of tests for being reputable) and 3) while being accurate in comparison of some other sources, it offers a bit more information not offered in other sources.

Can you help me understand what the ramifications are of using this source, which is accurate and cited in other books we've taken as sources? --CaroleHenson (talk) 19:39, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

One of the problems is actually the very point that you have noted (& that I thought I had noted before you, since it was mentioned in one of the sources I used to start the article). When a self-published source is supposed to be ok for limited factual info, and d.o.b. is listed as one of those items - yet it gets the d.o.b. wrong, so far as more modern writers are concerned. Not a great beginning. I'll try to re-read WP:RS later but, in any event, where an alternative, reliable source has the same info then use that other source - a simple way to avoid the problem. I know that other books cite it because that is how I first found out about it + the wrong d.o.b.
Taking it to RSN just avoids you and me having to make the decision. We would hopefully get a consensus but, of course, you would need to word the request neutrally in the first place. - Sitush (talk) 20:12, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Arghh!!! It's probably easiest at this point to take the Allen source out which means I've got to go back through the entire article again and plug in other sources, because I did find coaberating (forget how to spell) in other sources (just didn't add it as an additional source if it was already covered).
I guess I either need to take a break from Wikipedia or run sources by you before I do any more writing, because if the criteria is that all of the information needs to be correct or totally in synch with other sources to use it, I'm not sure what would pass. I have to tell you, just because Allen Bent states a different date of birth, I'm not so sure he is wrong. Break time for a bit then I'll go through the article again, ensure that I have a source for every bit covered by the Allen Bent source.--20:24, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
No. Take it to RSN. If it is ok there then it saves you a lot of work. - Sitush (talk) 20:26, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
You seriously believe that the three bullets above aren't justification for using a source?--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:28, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Arghhh! I need a break. I'll check back in a couple of days.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:30, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
OK. I have asked. I have just noticed that a possible connection to the Boston Tea Party, which Grinnell had argued was impossible, has materialised as an undisputed fact via Allen Bent. At the very least, we would need to indicate that this is a contradicted point. These things are sooooo messy sometimes. - Sitush (talk) 21:05, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Grinnell said it was impossible for Silas b. 1768, but possible for the father. At least now I've got something to work with. I read at one one other place that Silas the father was in the Boston Tea Party. I'll find it. It's the randomness that's hard to deal with. I'll check for Silas b. 1744 and provide you with those sources.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:06, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Grinnell p. 1 about 40% down the page: Slightly paraphrased: Some accounts state that he was involved in the Boston Tea Party, but if so it was probably his father.
Bay: Silas (b. 1744) involved in Tea Party--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:12, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Another: Ritual Ground--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:16, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Another: Another Ritual Ground, but in book format--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Sabin: Kit Carson Days book-- the last place I saw it, but can find more if you need them.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:23, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Carole, it is no biggie. No need to be worrying about demons etc. I do not have the answer & so have raised the issue. I'll go with the flow. My suspicion is that it is ok to use, with qualifiers to those bits where other sources clearly contest specific points.

That last point is part of the issue, I suspect. If one reliable source says A and another says B then we should be referring to both, which can sometimes be a pain. Anyway, doing it now, while you are in the groove and I can still remember at least a bit of what I read, will provide some weight for any potential challenge in the future. I have a plan for that, which is basically to link to the RSN note on the Silas talk page & thereby limit any future debate on the grounds that it has already been done, dusted, reviewed etc. I've not checked the links you added above yet but I've noticed that one of them is on cdlib, which unfortunately hosts a document that has taken up a massive chunk of my last 12 - 16 hours in relation to Talk:Kurmi. Nothing wrong with cdlib itself and indeed it will prima facie only be hosting reliable content, but the ins and outs related to the specific document have been tendentious beyond belief! The document is fine, of course, but the interpretation of it has caused a shedload of trouble that has ended up with numerous admins involved, a report at WP:NPOVN, yet another legal threat, a full page protect (edit lockdown) of the article for a week and a semi-protect of the article talk page. And so it goes on! Playing the long game, as with the RSN point, can sometimes save a lot of silliness later on, although I am sure that you think I am being silly right here, right now ;) - Sitush (talk) 23:16, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I should have notified you of the precise link to RSN, which is Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Reliability of a genealogy that is sort self-published. Do not be afraid to go there and say what you want to say. My apologies for not linking earlier, and for the several typos you will find there (including in the title, where the "of" after "sort" mysteriously disappeared). I seem to be developing a tendency towards pidgin English! - Sitush (talk) 23:33, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
I made a comment back on that link. I guess I thought that if you added anything to RSN you would present it from a neutral perspective and reflect the reasoning for why the source was chosen and that it was truly only one item of difference, which was noted in the article "notes" section. I'm confused and disappointed -- as you know, an ever growing factor for me here. It makes me wonder: What percentage of contributors really stick around for any time?--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:00, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

WP Colo article review requests from July

... from the To Do List and from my 2008 talk request: Talk:Fort Collins, Colorado#Pre GA Review has been reviewed and proposed. Needs another review and items checked off so we can upgrade Ft. Collins to GA and future FA. Carole, I would be glad to review you article. Cheers, Lance.... LanceBarber (talk) 05:20, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Carole, I enjoyed reading your article. The organization, the coverage, photos, links, refs, and further reading is very good. I liked the links to the Main article " Ancient Pueblo People" and especially the 4 directional SW Colo destination nav box! I personally like the photo layout or galleries you have created, but other editors and typical styles will have the photos right and some left justified. Other editors will/would create a wiki Commons for AHC, and move half of the pics into the commons. THe wiki commons would the contain the following pics from the article: Map of Canyon of ANM, Lower Pueblo, San Juan NF, and the 6 nav link pics. I went ahead and upgraded the WP project to B-class and importance High for Colo, it deserves the upgrade. With that, more in-depth text is needed, I suggest the following expansion for you to do: 1) info on when the two sites were excavated, by whom, and some details of the excavation (this will help the Archaeology WP editors to give you a higher rating too) 2) BLM future plans for the two sites and from the Museum, 3) more details on the construction and background of the Museum facility, see the BLM link (Info. Center) for details, and 4) describe/details on specific a)artifacts, b) rock art, c)cliff dwellings, and D the Midden. I will be looking forward to your added text... thank you for your hard work, Cheers, Lance... ps- glad to do some lite editing for you.LanceBarber (talk) 06:33, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Resilient Barnstar.png The Resilient Barnstar
In reviewing your wiki history, articles and indepth disccusions (WOW), you've attained a strong nitch in wikiland and are hanging in there, don't stop!! LanceBarber (talk) 07:02, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, Lance for the kind words and attention. I've been writing off-line for a book I'm working on, but I'll look at the items you mentioned. I'm planning on going to SW Colorado in the fall and so I might get information more directly at that time for the Anasazi Heritage Center and Ute Mountain Ute Tribe articles. When you mention Fort Collins, I'm assuming that you're mentioning the Elizabeth Hickok Robbins Stone article, is that right? Or, maybe I made some minor edits to the Camp Collins or Fort Collins Museum and Discovery Science Center article? Very nice to hear from you!--CaroleHenson (talk) 06:41, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Your welcome. Writing a book is hard work. Hope you are successful when you visit Colo... keep me posted. I mean the entire city article, Ft. Collins, Colorado. See the Talk page for my checklist I started. Others may have expanded in those area but never crossed it out. The article originally had some good development but started to become diluted with non-encyclopedic info, and I tried to clean it up. I live in Aurora but tried to stay neutral by working on Ft. Collins. See what you can do, and or recommend; so we can upgrade it appropriately to GA. Been pretty busy doing aviation stuff. Have a great holiday weekend, we're going camping. Drop me a note. Thanks. Lance.... LanceBarber (talk) 01:47, 2 September 2011 (UTC)


Sue's barnstar.png The Executive Director's Barnstar
Hi CaroleHenson: Congratulations on being the first-ever recipient of the Executive Director's Barnstar, which was designed for me by my colleague Frank Schulenburg, and which I'll be awarding to great editors every now and then as the mood strikes me. The purpose of this barnstar is to celebrate Wikimedia editors who are making a significant contribution to the Wikimedia projects. You were nominated by User:Buickmackane for your significant contributions to articles on history and the visual arts. From your userpage it looks like you just started editing in February, but you've already created dozens of beautiful, important new articles: congratulations, and thank you! If you'd like to nominate someone else to receive this award, please leave a message on my talk page. Sue Gardner (talk) 00:36, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
I have not logged onto the site for awhile - and found this lovely message today. Thanks much to you and Buickmackane!--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:18, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
From the user formerly known as Buickmackane, you're very welcome! And thank you for being so awesome :) --Maryana (WMF) (talk) 00:15, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

I just received your message

and my initial thought is to keep Battle of Cieneguilla and the Jicarilla War separate. I had not thought of the Battle of Cieneguilla as being a part of a particular war, but had been meaning to track down some of the engagements that followed that fight. If I do that I'd like to be able to include them in the Jicarilla War article. Unfortunately I can not find my Park Service report on Cieneguilla, I am afraid that I might have loaned it out. But that is a digression. I live about 10 miles from the fight sight and have visited it several times. I want to visit some other sites to, but have not done so yet. I say separate but equal on these articles. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 15:48, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Einar, Ok. I've been getting (myself) side-lined in my progress, so that sounds good to me. When I do have more time later I might go back to clarify how the Jicarilla War is defined besides just the Battle of Cieneguilla and events leading up to the war. It would be interesting to know where the battle site is. I was thinking about stopping by the reservation area and possibly the battle site when I go to southwestern CO in a few weeks. Thanks for responding!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:56, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

The Battle of Cieneguilla site in near Pilar, New Mexico, but you really are unlikely to find it without a local guide. I would not mind going there, however there is not a lot to be seen. When I first went there the Park Service survey posts (or whatever they were_) were still up. When I returned they were gone. They really do not want folks tromping all over th site, but when I go I don't tromp. I am a bit surprised to find that there is a Jicarilla War, I wonder what googling it will bring up? Besides wikipedia. Carptrash (talk) 20:24, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello again. Well it sounds like it wouldn't be worth visiting the battle site (until I head down there from Taos - there's a fun steak place not too far from there - with no expectations beyond getting a feeling for the site - why they may have wanted to camp there, what the feeling is of the area). Hmmmm.
Regarding the Jicarilla War, from what I've seen in my searching so far: it covered a period of about 1841-1856 or so - with heart-breaking events leading up to, and a bit more after the Battle of Cieneguilla. --CaroleHenson (talk) 20:35, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Amish life in the modern world

Thank you for your message. Unfortunately, I think you may have intended it for Alexander Roumega, who was the creator of the article in question (and who may be able to answer your query). My only contribution was to add a project template to the article Talk page. --CharlieDelta (talk) 06:58, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

List of Pueblo peoples dwellings

Thank you for your contributions to this list Carole- I appreciate them. Please continue to do anything to the list. The reception to it was so rude immediately after I was finished that I've been discouraged from continuing, but maybe with a little burr from someone who has the vision of the article like you do, I will jump back into it. Thanks again. • Freechildtalk 18:59, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Freechild! It's a nice tool for people to find other ancient pueblo sites! I'm focusing on Colorado right now, but I can pick at some of the other states from time to time - most of interest would be other Four Corner states. Great idea!
And thanks for the Fry Bread!!! Question for you: Do you by chance know of an editor (or wikiproject) that wouldn't mind checking out some of the articles I've worked on for ancient pueblo sites? I've had some great editors follow me for visual arts and Engligh/Welsh history, but I don't know of anyone working on ancient and/or Native American southwest articles. Thanks again!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:10, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
No editors of such a proclivity, sorry to say. I have one excellent editor who reads my ethnic history articles who might be interested though. Contact him at User talk:Parkwells and mention I sent you, and see how he responds. He's an absolutely great editor.
In other news, I found it fascinating that you created Template:Indigenous People of CO. Have you seen the template I created called Template:Native Americans in Nebraska? I don't get as ancient as you, but I thought it was wonderful that we were along the same lines. • Freechildtalk 15:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! I like your template, nice job! It gives me a couple of ideas.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:29, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Reply to your question

I replied on my page at [4]. • Freechildtalk 21:25, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Have some fry bread!

Frybread.jpg Fry Bread
Enjoy some fry bread for your efforts! • Freechildtalk 19:01, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Interview with Wikimedia Foundation

Hi Carole, I hope you're well. My name is Aaron and I'm one of the Storytellers working on the 2011 fundraiser for the Wikimedia Foundation. For this year's campaign, we're interviewing as many of the very active and productive Wikipedians as we can to broaden the range of appeals we run come November. I wonder if you would want to tell me more about your experiences editing and writing here? If so, I'll ask you your personal story and I'll ask you some general questions about Wikipedia. Please let me know if you're interesting by emailing Thanks! Aaron (WMF) (talk) 01:21, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Colorado

Dear Carole,

Thank you so much for your great work on Colorado pre-history. I've added your username to the list of active WikiProject Colorado members. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Yours aye,  Buaidh  13:52, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, much appreciated! Aye.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, CaroleHenson. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.


Thanks for the substantial additions you've been making to articles related to the Ancient Pueblo People Eras. I noticed what you were up to when you added the links to Petrified Forest National Park, to which I was the main contributor. It's wonderful how new articles improve the existing articles by adding depth that wasn't there before. Finetooth (talk) 00:20, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Finetooth. It's been fun.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:50, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Adding entries to the November list

Greetings! I noticed that you added some entries to Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links/November 2011. Unfortunately, this list is only for keeping track on progress made with respect to the list of the top 500 disambiguation pages existing as of the beginning of the month. Although new disambiguation pages and links are made all the time, this particular list reflects only those that are being tracked from the date the list is made. We really appreciate your help with the project, and invite you to also help out with the pages on the existing list. Cheers! bd2412 T 02:04, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

You've been doing a great job cutting down the November list - thanks! bd2412 T 02:00, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your help along the way!--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:08, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Intentional links to dab pages

Hi, good work on cleaning up links to disambiguation pages. But in some cases you've been re-formatting intentional links to disambiguation pages. For example, here and here. WP:INTDABLINK explains why intentional links to disambiguation pages that have no primary topic (i.e., that do not end in "(disambiguation)") should link through a redirect to the disambiguation page that does end in "(disambiguation)". The idea is that links through such a redirect are marked as being intentional and can be ignored when cleaning up links to the disambiguation page. olderwiser 06:09, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the heads up. I thought I was just doing some housekeeping, but it's very helpful to understand the reasoning for keeping the "(disambiguation)" in the links. Fortunately I think I put each case in the edit summary so I can easily go back through my contributions list and undo the changes.--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:40, 13 November 2011 (UTC)


Hi, I've seen you about the DPL project and I must say, your enthusiasm is catching. Thanks much for all the help! Cheers, --JaGatalk 19:01, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for stopping by to say hello! It's been an interesting bit of work. I got started to sort out disamb issues from articles I had written and caught the bug.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:10, 14 November 2011 (UTC)


I notice you are doing loads of new work in the DV field. I have a broader brush see: User:Penbat. I have commented here: Talk:Economic abuse. Some other articles related to DV that need working on include:

--Penbat (talk) 16:36, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Really great points about economic abuse, I responded on that page. Do you have thoughts about what should be done to expand the "Cycle of abuse" article?--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:57, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm not convinced that COA is meaningful for short timescales as currently described in the COA article. I think that more usually it relates to COA across generations, particularly child abuse but maybe DV. I started User:Penbat/intergenerational transmission User:Penbat/intergenerational transmission of abuse which need to be done properly at some point and probably overlaps COA. BTW i find the phrase "domestic violence" a little problematic as i think that most domestic abuse doesnt involve physical violence but can still be very unpleasant.--Penbat (talk) 20:14, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Interesting point about COA really running across generations, something to think about. My experience and research is that COA is a paradigm of cycles of ongoing abuse in domestic abuse situations. Do you know of someone who talks about the cycle of abuse being more of a cross-generational issue, rather than an episodic definition? That would interesting to read.
I see your issue with the term of "domestic violence" (which sounds like its predominantly physical abuse) being used as a larger category for the other forms of abuse Domestic violence in the United States#Forms of domestic violence. I think the point is (for all the people that use the term "domestic violence"), that domestic violence is made up of a combination of inter-related forms of abuse: physical, sexual, economic, verbal, spiritual, etc. For instance, verbal abuse over time lowers self-confidence and makes the victim feel guilty and deserving of physical abuse, economic abuse traps the victim in physical abusive situations, sexual abuse very often coincides with physical abuse, etc. I wasn't really familiar with the term "domestic violence" and that it included all these types of abuse until I started working on these articles. It might be worthwhile (since both of us have the initial feeling that domestic violence sounds as if it's just physical abuse) to include something in the article intros about this. Again, great thinking!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:26, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
If you look at Cycle_of_abuse#Further_reading the entries i think are more to do with intergenerational COA rather than episodic COA.--Penbat (talk) 20:40, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
It sounds like the article needs to be updated to reflect both the concept of the unbroken intergenerational chain of abuse (cycle of abuse) with the different, episodic cycles of abuse that occurs in ongoing domestic violence situations. Great point, since it's generally the intergenerational cycle of abuse that keeps people in domestic abuse situations. I've been trying to figure out if there are two different terms, or slight differentiation in terms, that distinguishes the two scenarios - and I've been at a loss. Is Cycle of Abuse used for both scenarios?--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:20, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Domestic violence edits

Hey Carole! I am one of the people who has been trying to change the 'domestic violence' definition to emphasize the issue that only once person can be abusive in a relationship. Thank you for writing me back to address that although only one can be abusive, both can be violent. Before I cited this website because it's one of the few online article that addresses the difference. I do understand your clarification between abuse and violence. However, since the 'domestic violence' section of Wikipedia describes it as 'abusive behaviors' what do you think about the clarification between the abuse and violence being addressed? Thank you

Cnoyes820 (talk) 03:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)Carolyn

I left a message on your talk page.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:28, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Outline of domestic violence

I came across the outline you created, and have added it to Portal:Contents/Outlines. If there are other places it fits in the tree of knowledge on that page, please feel free to add additional links.

I've added some missing formatting and structure to the outline.

I think you will find that you can organize almost anything on the subject in the outline, so that it will grow into a central hub in which readers unfamiliar with the field can use it to find their way around with ease. Outlines are also great for editors and experts to keep a bird's eye view over Wikipedia's coverage of the subject.

Kudos on your work on DV on Wikipedia.

I look forward to working with you in the future. The Transhumanist 06:01, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Wow, cool! You did a great job, I was struggling a bit with how to make the outline right. Thanks, Transhumanist!--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

An invitation...

Dear CaroleHenson,

It is my privilege to cordially invite you to join the Outline WikiProject. Please consider joining our team.

The short cut is WP:WPOOK. The "OOK" stands for "Outline of Knowledge", which is what Portal:Contents/Outlines actually is. We are in essence building an outline of all of human knowledge. It is especially useful because it also doubles as a table of contents of Wikipedia. You are most welcome to join in on the fun and excitement of this extraordinarily eclectic enterprise.

Our participant sign-up location is Wikipedia:WikiProject Outlines#Participants.

And userboxes pertaining to the project can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Outlines/Userboxes.

I look forward to seeing your further development of outlines. I'm very happy that you find them interesting and useful. The Transhumanist 22:37, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

P.S.: If you have any questions at all concerning outlines (or Wikipedia in general), please don't hesitate to ask, and I will be more than happy to fill you in on anything you wish to know. -TT
Hi "The" Transhumanist!
Yep, sounds like a plan. I'm thinking of doing an article for a series of articles that I wrote about Template:Ancient Pueblo People Eras and Coloradoan Prehistory. I've been taking a break from that topic and now that I know that there's a template and have a great example, they seem like two great and fun outlines to do.
By the way, you're welcome for the Barnstar, very well deserved! It's always great to have a pro-active nudge in the right direction!--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
It sounds like Outline of Colorado#History of Colorado, by period would be the perfect location for your outline additions concerning Coloradoan Prehistory. You may wish to correspond with Buaidh, who built all of the state history outlines (which have since been merged into the state outlines by community consensus). Buaidh also happens to be the most active developer and maintainer of the Outline of Colorado, and it is the primary outline that he works on these days. The Transhumanist 23:18, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

You deserve this...

"What a Brilliant Idea!" Barnstar.png What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar
is hereby awarded to Carole Henson for creating and developing the Outline of domestic violence, a hub of knowledge that many will no doubt find very relevant and helpful in times of personal crisis. I commend you, Carole, on making such a valuable resource available to the public worldwide. Kudos to you. Sincerely, The Transhumanist 23:00, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Well, it's my turn to say I'm touched, I hadn't expected a Barnstar in return. It was very nice of you. When I'm ready to work on the Colorado outlines, I'll certainly touch base with Buaidh! You made my day, Transhumanist!--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:35, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Export hell seidel steiner.png We must have one (or whatever) in person sometime. Thank you for your passion. SarahStierch (talk) 06:40, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Thank you, Sarah! It's nice to hear from you again. Sure, sounds great (for me, Seabreeze). Take care,--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Some comments

Carole, I know that your intention was to make Men's rights more neutral, but - in my opinion, and others may disagree - the opposite happened. The title of the article is "men's rights", not "men's rights movement", "men's rights activism" or "claims by men's rights advocates." You have re-introduced a long laundry list of complaints by men's rights advocates. The article does not mention men's rights, e.g., men's right over his wife and children under coverture, Sharia law etc. Men's still existing right to polygamy in Malaysia. Men's right to "discipline" his wife in certain cultures. Men's right to become priests, whereas women do not have that right in most cases.

In addition to neutrality, OR is another major problem. For instance, you added a list of issues. Look at the point "political representation", for example. Men are over-represented in politics in all countries. Is there really a reliable secondary source which states that political representation is a "men's rights" issue (as opposed to an issue raised by the men's rights movement)? If no, then the material must be removed immediately. Moreover, you write: "Men's rights activists would like to have parity with women for political representation". That would actually mean that MRAs would have to reduce men's political representation as women are under-represented in politics. And it is only in the next sentence that you state that they do not actually want parity (since that would mean fewer men/more women in politics), they only want to have Minister for Men's Issues.

The article currently takes the POV of men's rights activists and excludes all counterbalancing points. --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 21:54, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to move this over to Talk:Men's rights so that others can weigh in.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:56, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

More comments. I am glad that you took my stupid remark at MR so well. I started to get involved in that article but kept throwing up. Your work there is such a good thing. To quote Rudyard Kipling, "You're a better . . ........... " Never mind. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 06:07, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, that's very nice to hear! I've felt over my head, lost, and afraid I've stepped on toes along the way... oh, and did I say LOST?
I thought your comment was funny and apt - here I am a woman stepping in on this particular, sensitive topic. Nice to hear from you!--CaroleHenson (talk) 06:31, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Outline of Colorado prehistory

Your Outline of Colorado prehistory looks great. I think we should define the end of Colorado prehistory. Perhaps one of the following:

  1. The first landfall of Columbus -- October 12, 1492
  2. The Coronado Expedition -- 1541
  3. The settlement of Santa Fe de Nuevo México – July 12, 1598
  4. The end of the 17th Century – December 31, 1700
  5. The Dominguez-Escalante Expedition – 1776
  6. The end of the 18th Century – December 31, 1800
  7. The Pike Expedition – November 15, 1806
  8. The first Hispanic settlement in the future Colorado – April 9, 1851

Yours aye,  Buaidh  16:55, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Great point! I would think the year of the Dominguez-Escalante Expedition – 1776 or The first Hispanic settlement in the future Colorado – April 9, 1851. There was written history between the two timeframes of early mountain men and trappers. How does using the Dominguez-Escalante Expedition work for you?
It would also be interesting to get your thoughts about whether or not to include general topics of the native people, like their diet, dwellings, etc. It's not specific to Colorado, but helps further the understanding of their lives. I'm about 50/50 split on whether it's a good idea or not.
Good to hear from you!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:40, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
I think 1776 would be an appropriate end for Colorado prehistory, since it marks the real beginning of Hispanic exploration and travel through Southern Colorado, as well as the independence of Anglo-America.
I think some items devoted to Paleo-American and Native American daily life are very pertinent. Yours aye,  Buaidh  17:26, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Ok, thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:38, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

RE: Modern Conveniences


Given that the World Health Organisation states that "To date, no adverse health effects have been established as being caused by mobile phone use"<ref name="who">[ WHO]</ref>, it did not seem the best example to use of a negative effect of modern conveniences.

All the best,

Theshadow89 (talk) 23:42, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Cool, thanks! I'll remove that piece, but I'm going to leave the source for the rest of the information in that paragraph.--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:45, 1 December 2011 (UTC)


I wanted to thank you for your interesting additions to Paleo-Indian related articles. This is really excellent. These topics are unappreciated and Wikipedia lacks coverage of these topics even though there is plenty of information available. I've been working on some of the articles for projectile points but I'm no expert on the topic and I have made little progress. Keep up the great work. France3470 (talk) 15:33, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, you made my day! This is topic I'm really interested in and it's nice to know that there are others who find it interesting, too!--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:45, 2 December 2011 (UTC)


Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar.png

The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Just because... ;-) Mystylplx (talk) 10:40, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, that's a nice surprise!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Your revert at Domestic violence?

Hi CaroleHenson

It is small wonder that Mystylplx has given you a barnstar as you now seem to be pushing his POV for him. There is too much pseudoscience in the gender aspects section as it is (Fiebert etc.) without allowing this weasel wording added by Mystylplx to stay. "Some sources" implies that this could be a minority view when it is mainstream. NPOV does not mean including minority unscientific viewpoints to appease POV pushers. You will not find a little bit of pseudoscience included in the Evolution article to keep creationists happy and it should not be here either. I hope you will take another look at the conversations on the talk page and self-revert.--Expsychobabbler (talk) 17:54, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

The whole section needs help, but I reworded the sentence to be specific to the source info provided, broke out violence against women, men. All you have to do is read the rest of the paragraph and it's clear that the violence is more frequently and severely made against women. I'm just trying to be in synch with the info provided by the source.
Like I say, though, the whole section needs work.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
As an FYI, you may want to take a look at the article I wrote (which pulled some info from the Domestic violence article): Domestic violence in the United States.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. That is a marked improvement. The US article is clear, consise and to the point. I will be watching it for vandalism. I worked that section up from complete chaos into more or less its present form but as you say it needs more work. You deserve a constellation of barnstars for your hard work.--Expsychobabbler (talk) 19:57, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Good. I didn't mean to slam the work that had been done before, from the talk page and your comments it sounds like it's been improved upon.--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:04, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

You have a reply on my talk page (eom)

How you can help

Please note
To make the information easier to access:
All previous outline tips moved to User:CaroleHenson/Outline tips
This section moved to: User:CaroleHenson/Outline tips#Help out --CaroleHenson (talk) 20:02, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

That's all for now

There are plenty more task types, but the library is about to close, so I need to wrap up. I'll type more at you soon. The Transhumanist 03:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok, sure I'd be happy to help out watching - and editing - possibly starting with annotations. I get kind of bored working on one subject at a time so it sounds like a win-win.
I'm not sure the drafts are at all meaningful for what you're looking to do, I just added as an aside earlier because I find a lot of the help material so difficult at times, especially if I don't have the right search term or combination of terms.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:12, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

About your drafts

I'll have comments about your drafts soon too. The Transhumanist 03:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I've replied about Linky on my talk page (eom)

Re: Recent edits to outlines

20:31, 7 December 2011 (diff | hist) User talk:Sara1252 ‎ (→Outline of Quebec: new section) (top)

First, do a Google search using some (long strings) of the text to see if it is copyrighted. (I checked several strings from this one). Sara's passage appears to be derived from . When you find copyrighted material or plagiarized material, delete it and post a standard warning on the user's talk page. For more information, see Wikipedia:Copyright problems.
If there are no apparent copyright problems, do a Wikipedia search to see if it was copied from an article. If it isn't already on Wikipedia, then it's new text which should be merged into whichever article is most appropriate.
Contacting editors is good. Let them know that "outline" as used here is short for "hierarchical outline", a type of list, and then provide a link to where you merged the material. In this case, since it appears to be plagiarized, point this out and provide a link to the suspected source of the material and to the Copyright problems page. The Transhumanist 01:24, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

20:30, 7 December 2011 (diff | hist) Outline of Quebec ‎ (Undid revision 464577647 by Sara1252 (talk) moving content to user's talk page with an offer to help get it into an annotation and/or article) (top)

The copyright problem needs to be discussed with the editor.

20:26, 7 December 2011 (diff | hist) N User talk:Sara1252 ‎ (added welcome)

Nice touch.

20:22, 7 December 2011 (diff | hist) User talk: ‎ (→Edit to Outline of geometry reverted‎: new section) (top)

Be sure to check the user's contributions to see if this is part of a vandalism spree. If it is, report them at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. For more information, see Wikipedia:Vandalism#How_to_respond_to_vandalism. The Transhumanist 01:24, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

20:20, 7 December 2011 (diff | hist) N User talk: ‎ (Welcome)


20:18, 7 December 2011 (diff | hist) Outline of geometry ‎ (Undid revision 464277431 by (talk) Ge puta ometryh -- back to Geometry) (top)

Nice catch.

Talk to you later...--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:35, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Keep up the good work. The Transhumanist 01:24, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Ok, thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:37, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Drafts from my user space

Hi, as discussed on my talk page, here are the drafts (very early stage) that I started in my user space quite awhile ago:

It seems I had two more, but I'm not seeing them. I'll see if I did drafted something on my personal computer.

I started them just to give a flavor of direction, and for several reasons held off.--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:45, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I've posted our tutorial library to the right.
Relevant newcomer material you might like to take a look at is:
I like tutorials. I wrote the tutorials on Linky and Learning the ropes. Here's a tip: select your title first, to differentiate it from existing pages; that's your angle.
Keep in mind that even if the material is already covered, you can always write your own tutorial, keep it in your user space, and provide a link to it on the tutorial library and on all relevant non-article pages. Putting your name in the title lets readers know it's another treatment of the subject.
I hope these tips help.
I'll comment on your deletion notice essay soon. The Transhumanist 01:54, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Ok, thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:12, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

Hi. In Outline of Colorado prehistory, you recently added a link to the disambiguation page Buffalo (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. For more information, see the FAQ or drop a line at the DPL WikiProject.

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Searching Wikipedia titles with grep

Grep is a tool available on Wikipedia's toolserver.

It has three major abilities/features:

  1. It searches only page titles on Wikipedia
  2. It presents its output as a simple single-column list
  3. It understands Regular expressions (for a cheatsheet, see WP:REGEX)

You don't have to worry about Regex to be able to use it. Just type in whatever string you want it to search for.

To specify more than one search string in the same search, use (|), like this:

(of Colorado|in Colorado)

That returns a list with titles like Geography of Colorado, Education in Colorado, etc.

Grep also takes spaces into account...

" Colorado" (without the quotes) would look for Colorado with a space character in front of it.

To find places in Colorado, search for ", Colorado" (though that won't find all of the places).

To look for a search string that includes parentheses, you have to escape the special meaning of the parentheses characters by placing a backslash in front of each.

Grep is a nice simple place to start experimenting with Regex. Once you get familiar with it, you'll be ready to apply Regex in WP:WikEd and AWB. (Once you get up to speed with outlines, you'll probably be using AWB a lot, as it is very powerful even without using Regex).

Talk at ya more later, The Transhumanist 21:05, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:14, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Have you switched to Firefox yet?

If so, the following Wikipedia feature is available to you...

I tried using Firefox yesterday - and the Linky add-on - but started getting Error 404s (which seems like the 403s I was getting) and my computer crashed. I've been treading very lightly today.--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:18, 9 December 2011 (UTC)


For firefox-using Wikipedians, there is a very nice Wikipedia editor available as a gadget (activated in My preferences), that replaces the usual Wikipedia editor, and it has a search/replace feature built in. You can switch that search/replace feature back and forth from processing Regex. I've been using WikEd for years, but it was only recently upgraded to accept Regex searches and replaces. With that it is even more powerful.

WikEd is an instant upgrade to Wikipedia, as it's search/replace feature is very easy to use. And it has many other features too.

WikEd is probably the best reason for active Wikipedia editors to switch to Firefox. The Transhumanist 21:05, 8 December 2011 (UTC)


After writing the explanation on Grep for you above, I noticed it would make a good general tip for everyone, so I've used it as the basis for a tip of the day, which will appear as the TOTD for January 2nd. The Transhumanist 22:09, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Good idea!

Article Rodgen Stewart

Please can you help me once again and check article Rodgen Stewart for any more errors or parts that needs improving

Thank you --John Johnson (talk) 13:27, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Watchlist sorter

This script sorts your watchlist by namespace, and adds spaces within each entry to make the watchlist easier to read. It supports Firefox, but not Internet Explorer.

I've been using it for years, because it makes the watchlist much more convenient to browse. The Transhumanist 22:32, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not using Foxfire right now. I'm not sure if my computer is unhappy with Foxfire or the Linky utility, but I'm going to stay with what I know is safe on my computer (Internet Explorer) for right now. (I've had to restore my computer twice in as many days.)--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:28, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Foxfire. Cool stuff. By the way, not being able to run firefox makes some very useful tools unavailable, like WikEd. Sorry to hear it. The Transhumanist 00:30, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Storage pits

See also sections tend to contain either stuff that is relevant and should be incorporated into the article, or trivia. If the linked pit is particularly relevant/ exceptional example/oldest, it should be in the text. If it's one of thousands (?) of similar pits, it's difficult to see why this one only should be in the "see also" section. If you want to give this as an example, better, I would think to put it in the body of the article Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:11, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok, will do. Thanks for the response!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:13, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad I don't live in a Tsunami zone


I was skimming through my talk page archives, and found this floating around in there. Definitely my favorite picture from Wikipedia. The Transhumanist 01:58, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

No kidding! What an amazing picture... the man who seems transfixed... the varying reactions... wondering what happened to these people and how could the photograph have survived... amazing!
Makes me think about my favorite article: Meaning of life. I have never been able to make an outline on this subject though. The Transhumanist 00:20, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Very cool article! (I have one bookcase chock full of world religion, philosophy and such books - am very interested in the subject!)

Do you have over 500 edits yet?

If you have over 500 edits in article space, there is a tool you can use that does not require Firefox. It's called AWB. The Transhumanist 02:17, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I have more than 500 edits. I think that my problem is somehow related to indexing - it's not a known virus and there's been no other users that have come in the background. It seems that my computer especially dislikes when I go back and forth between lists of Wikipedia search results - and possibly an issue with looking a "diff"s in article history. I have a couple of a registry and a few file association issues for dll files but I'm not sure how to fix it. So, I'm still treading lightly.
I'll read up on AWB, while I try to sort this out. Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:40, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

History of technology

I pasted the deleted copy into the new userspace draft that you just started. Hope that works for you. NawlinWiki (talk) 17:49, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah! Thanks! I'll get it before I save what I've been typing.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

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Construction Communication citations

Thanks a lot for improving my article. It was my first, hence, lot of mistakes. Hoezen, M.E.L., the writer of The Problem of Communication in Construction, sites the above references in the paper. Hence, I thought it would be better to cite the same references. Something else that I could have done? --Shekhar.sheetanshu (talk) 16:52, 23 December 2011 (UTC)Sheetanshu Shekhar

Hi Shekhar, you don't need to cite all the citations that were in the Hoezen article, just the Hoezen article itself.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:54, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Red Kitten 01.jpg

Thanks for soliciting help for my page. I was still editing it myself and have added and will add more internal/external links when I find them. I understand the table of contents is added automatically if you have more than 3 sections. Could you please remove your notice to help with the page? Thanks!!

Coug74 (talk) 01:55, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

SantasOnSteps.jpg Happy new year!
we wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year! Pass a Method talk 19:08, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you! That's nice of you. You, too!--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:57, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you! (2)

Kitten (06) by Ron.jpg

Carol, thanks again for all your help and suggestions. I'll keep plugging along. This wiki entry all started with old newspaper clippings and pictures of my dad's boxing days found in an old scrapbook that my sister had left over from a family album project she did many years ago. If I understand the policy about images, since I didn't take them, I can't use them??

Hope you had a nice Christmas and I wish you and yours a Happy New Years.

Coug74 (talk) 20:53, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I'm glad I've been of some help! I think the point is to avoid copyright issues. If you have permission to use the images - essentially putting the images into the public domain for anyone's use. You may want to look at Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission and check with your sister (following the policy) to ensure that she's ok with the images going into the Wikipedia encyclopedia and available for public domain use.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:59, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Gastridium - gastropod cone snail genus article

Hi Carole, not to be rude or step on your toes, but I undid your edit to Gastridium. I just wrote that genus article as part of an 89 article series in a format that I and other members of WikiProject Gastropods have been collaborating on for months. The format of each of the genus articles is the same. Although a table might make sense in many instances it is out of place in the article layout we have established. Thank you for your contribution though, as it is nice to have one's work seen and added to by others. If this were a stand alone article I would likely leave your edit alone as it is otherwise useful. I hope that I have not offended you by this action. Feel free to correspond if you have any ideas to make the articles easier to read and understand by non-shell people.Shellnut (talk) 21:04, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I think you meant the Gastridium (gastropod) article. No, no problem whatsoever - of course I hadn't realized that there had been earlier discourse about using/not using a table for this comparison info. Great job being true to previous agreements!--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:08, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Carole for not being upset. BTW, I have the link on the article right but have the parenthetical hidden using the "|" (vertical bar). I tend to do that so the articles flow nicely but still avoid disambuguous links. Have a great holiday!Shellnut (talk) 23:56, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Outline of prehistoric technology


I've touched up the lead a little, and added two links to the outline at Portal:Contents/Outlines. Will delve in more when I can find more time. Cheers. The Transhumanist 22:34, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! It might be better to wait until I get more done - I have to complete the New World info, for instance, but have taken a break for a bit. I got AWB - my computer seems to be very compatible with it - and have enjoyed reviewing/editing new articles for a bit. I'll get back to the outline in a day or so.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:36, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Help-me Carole

Namaste, my dear! Thanks for the welcome, OK? I am Brazilian and I write with the help of a text translator ... Excuse the spelling mistakes le ... Yes .. info about deletion of previous article (Cobweb effect). Help me!

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 03:47, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

How funny! I just left a message at your page.--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:51, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello Carole! Please forgive the delay in responding ... I had to translate everything you wrote and I honestly do not know what to do ... I leave in your hands and do not want you to feel angry at me because I'm not a vandal ... I had good intentions .... You have a year full of joys and accomplishments 2012, OK? I am very weak in English to argue or discuss ... We are there, OK? Namaste

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 04:03, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

You' ¡re tan dulce! ¡Entiendo definitivamente su pasión! Sí, we' re bueno. Si puedo ayudarle a encontrar el artículo correcto, sería mi placer.--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:10, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

You are very "zen"! Thanks again for the great attention (Brazilians are very similar) ... I see how much you are willing to help me and I'm happy about that ... :) Sorry again for the delay in writing, because I'm all confused here ... Confused yourself! But being alone, OK? You would not love to hurt me ... Maybe one day you teach me English? :) Do you think the article is useless in Brazil? Everything is written in Portuguese ... Namaste

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 04:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

So sorry!! (I am laughing at myself!) I wrote back in Spanish, not Portuguese, so sorry!
I think your article has a chance where you have references - you may want to first read the Portuguese Wikipedia information about Notability and ensure there is enough written about the topic. I couldn't find much at all in English except a couple of blogs, which we cannot use.
Sure, I'd be happy to correspond in English with you - and maybe you can teach me some Portuguese (I used to have a very lovely Portuguese landlady and her family!!! Very fond memories of how they treated me like a sister.) If I can (if you are set up to receive email), I'll send you an email. Take care!--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:37, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I would be very happy if we correspondessemos by an e-mail ... :) It's weird because I talk about the fear of being misunderstood, you know? I do not have the mastery of words and they can have double meaning ... Up to three senses! However, it is a pleasure to meet you Carole and some days I come back here just to leave you a hug ... Best wishes and Namaste:) Regarding the article served to meet her ... :)

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 04:59, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

That would be great. I cannot email you, but you should see on the left side of your screen "Email this user". If you click on that you can email me. Best wishes and Namaste to you.--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:26, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

OK, my dear! I'll write ... Now I need to sleep because it's late at night here in my country ... :) Thanks again Carole! Very nice to meet you... I loved the words of Audre Lorde: Once we Recognize what it is we are feeling, not need to master a language to be happy, agrees? Best wishes and Namaste:)

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 05:54, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello, my dear! Good day ... :) I posted more things in the article cobweb effect I hope it's good (I tried to translate) ... I wanted to ask if someone could redirect the title "spider web effect" for the article cobweb effect, OK? I hope that everything is in order at this point ... Oh My God! :) With more time I write to you ... Best wishes and Namaste!

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

The spiderweb effect article is deleted, so there's no way to route it to the new article.
I'm not sure if the cobweb effect will remain because there are serious notability concerns (in English), although as I said I did find much more in Spanish - and you have in Portuguese.
I'll check the article to see if you've found some English sources.
Glad to hear from you! Namaste,CaroleHenson (talk) 22:35, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
I needed to return the deletion template. The way to resolve it is not to remove the deletion template, it's to resolve the issue by: 1) contesting the deletion through the process, 2) identifying the ways in which the article is notable -or- find a place in wikipedia where the information may be appropriate.
You've added more info (although still not sourced in English) that makes it seems (to inexperienced me) that it may be a function of physics or natural laws - that could be good. You know what might be really good, contact the Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Science group, add an item to their discussion page about the article and see if they (the experts) can help you out. I'd mention that the first article was deleted fairly quickly and that the 2nd is contested, so that they're understanding the situation. Does that make sense?--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:47, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Oh, and the addition of the animals in "see also" doesn't help your cases because it confuses the true purpose of the article (which could making it even more likely to be deleted). It would be better to have "see also"s about related phenomenon. I'll see if I can find a few for you.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:49, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello, my dear! I see how great your effort to help ... I even feel ashamed to see his dedication... Thank you, Carole! Namaste... Namaste... Namaste... :) The link "see also" about the phenomenon was real, but I understand what can lead to confusion ... The phenomenon occurs through the action of sticky substances, suction between the bodies and the materials adhesion (frogs, leeches, sticky tongue of the chameleon, among other exotic creatures, generate the cobweb effect interacting with nature, understand?). I loved your suggestions (see also), because It also has everything to the part that was translated... The theme is too wide... Gradually, I add references in English, OK? For contact Wikipedia_talk: WikiProject_Science group appreciated his suggestion ... It takes me hours to write a single line and months discussing ... I prefer to write to you that is good for the soul ... :) I'll search references... thanks, Carole! Namaste... :)

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 00:42, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'll take a stab at putting something together for the Science Wikiproject later on. Have you tried to get this article established in Portugeuse? I think that once an article is established in one language it's easier to get it transferred to another language (meaning the Portugeuse sources could be verified and the article more easily established). That may be a good way to start.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:52, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Carole! I do not want to do anything that might harm you, OK? The article also lacks some Brazilian referrals and I am depending on the providence of the registration number of the book that fence the missing text ... Take it easy! And if not goes well, I am very happy to have known you and would like to write from time to time ... :)

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 01:12, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Absolutely! Me, too!--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:17, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello, my dear! I spent today just to give you a hug and say that people like you feel the energy in the air ... :) Our dreams are reborn as the winds change... We're out there, Namaste!

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 02:23, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello, how beautiful, thanks so much! Loved the video from it's soft, beautiful beginning to the beautifully artistic 2nd half. Lovely! I really like the idea of your dreams being reborn with the wind - great spiritual, cosmic energy! Namaste.--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:45, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

His dreams, too, are reborn with the strength of the winds ... Cosmic energy, my dear! :) Thanks

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 04:44, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello, my dear! Do you think the information below can help arfigo cobweb effect? I had problems in the translation into English of the good summary the study of the full text (I am an excellent writer in the Portuguese language ...:) ). See if it's relevant, OK? Best wishes and Namaste!

  • NASA scientists have observed during the removal of "strange particles" presen in photochromic solutions that their motion would interrupt the flow of high electric fields, changing patterns photochromic disturbing. The phenomenon was called cobweb effect due to the alignment of particles in the electric field, then the formation of a troubling spiral (tornado-like fashion<ref name="Soap bubble, bańka mydlana">{{cite web|url= |title= Soap bubble, bańka mydlana |author= Tech Science e Social News = December 26, 2011|publisher= Tech Science e Social News }}</ref>) NASA has never explained the cause of the cobweb effect in this tiny universe, but assumed the phenomenon the formation of an "insoluble precipitate" that the stick to the surface of a glass would allow this interaction that a massive dose of UV irradiation to go into the solution. <ref name=" Science Application NASA">{{cite web|url= |title= Science Application NASA |author= NASA = December 26, 2011|publisher= NASA}}</ref>
  • In Germany, biologist, Dr. Frederick Buer and social scientist Martin Regner found numerous ways to avoid accidents with glass birds. Among the inventions, there is a pen capable of drawing cobweb invisible to the human eye glasses from homes, offices, shops, etc ... The idea came about because the webs spread in nature not be destroyed by birds sensitive to UV light. The cobweb effect on this occasion is a optical illusion to the bird, but the substance that joined the windows it is the cobweb effect itself. <ref name=" Spinnennetz-Effekt“ und UV-Absorbern... ">{{cite web|url= |title= Spinnennetz-Effekt“ und UV-Absorbern... |author= Ítalo Carvalho = December 26, 2011|publisher= Zeitschrift für Vogelkunde und Naturschutz in Hessen}}</ref>


--Danilo Alencar (talk) 21:04, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

I miss you ... : (

I love these two singers (especially Anneke that appears after the music started ... His personality fascinates me)  :)

Namaste and Namaste :)

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 21:10, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Long live the new year! It's me again ... ki ki ki... Good energy ... I love people who feel what They Do ... Version two beautiful Brazilian singers That I Love (Ana Carolina and Seu Jorge) ... Good morning, my dear! :)

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 10:14, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

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It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:16, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Nope, it's a good reminder that I need to check against the DAB Solver. I've been working on a lot of new articles and I thought I was doing better at catching them than that.--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:23, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Some bubble tea for you!

Bubble Tea.png Have some bubble tea for helping improving articles on Chinese culture and community, specifically the Ant Tribe article! Zzarch (talk) 12:57, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks that's nice of you! I've got to step awhile and will come back for more writing, editing, etc. to move the article along. Appreciate your support!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:15, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Young cats.jpg

Carole, you have been very helpfuI, but I may have been somewhat unclear and therefore I am now confused about the copyright issue. The scrapbook belonged to my dad and my sister removed the pictures he had in it of my mother and us kids. She left the boxing clippings and old boxing pictures until I asked if I could have them. Neither of us took any of the pictures.

Again thanks Coug74 (talk) 21:08, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I misunderstood. I am far from an expert on this (that's why I provided the link), but I think the key point is: is your family ok with the image going into the public domain, which means that its free for use by anyone?--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:17, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Outline of the United Nations

I've been working on this outline. You are invited to come help (every little bit helps).

And please add it to your watchlist.

Thank you. The Transhumanist 02:07, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

P.S.: In case you are wondering why the See also section is so bloated, I used it as a holding bin for links that need to be placed in the appropriate sections in the body of the outline. It's just a matter of picking away at it until it's done.

Wow! Yep, I can see why every little bit of help is needed! Is it possible to split it into two outlines - maybe pulling out History into it's own outline?
I've got a migraine and am going to bed for a bit, but I'll check back on it later. By the way, is there an expectation of a certain number of hours per week to put into outlines if one is part of the Outlines wikiproject? Just wondering...--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to hear about your migraines. That can't be fun. I hope it goes away fast.
In answer to your questions...
Splitting is not only possible, it is the normal way to proceed (See Wikipedia:Splitting).
There are no participation expectations or requirements. Wikipedia is a totally open editing environment. Five minutes here, ten minutes there. It's the nature of the wiki, and it's totally up to you!
Though regular participation generally makes collaboration more productive.
That being said, there are times of crises when more time commitment is helpful. Such as when rescuing a page from deletion, during community debates, etc. But you don't have to worry about such advanced stuff when you are just starting out.
My advice is to have fun educating the world. The Transhumanist 03:48, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Outline of Google

Here's another one I've started a revamp on. The Transhumanist 03:55, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


Just removed the worst of it. Much more needs to be done. Feel free to keep at it :-) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:35, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Great, thanks! Agreed! I think everything in there needs to be scanned against existing and new sources. SO GLAD Doc James is looking on!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:42, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm taking the work off-line now to do just that (check all the sources against what's in the article and get missing ones).--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:45, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Outline of prehistoric technology on Google

It comes in twelfth in Google's search results for "prehistoric technology". Do you get the same result?

If links to it were placed on Wikipedia wherever it is relevant, I bet it would jump to #1. The Transhumanist 20:49, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok, good idea. I haven't forgotton about it - like I've said, I'm having a bit of fun working on new articles (thanks for telling me about AWB, it is a great tool). I sometimes just need a break from a topic for a bit if I've been too immersed (like I have with Colorado articles), but I promise I'll steer back!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:55, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
No problem. Take your time. The Transhumanist 21:16, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

epilepsy Female from Dicaluc

Dear friend, I translated it to spanish an then i used the spanish version for English version, i will see if the article is similar to the document, please tell me which parts you think which is the same than other articles and i will correct them. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dicaluc (talkcontribs) 17:38, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi there, good to hear from you!
If you are talking about the Scheffer article, I'm done with that and have moved on to other sources. You have got great sources, by the way! We are good.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:56, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Than you!! all

about this section

Antiepileptic drugs (AEDs) are used in most of the cases to control seizures, but in severe cases there is high drug resistance. There is evidence that patients respond well to treatment with levetiracetam and in cases of drug resistance experts indicated that some patients were treated with stiripentol. Studies are being conducted for future use of galaxolona, a neurosteroid drug that is not yet marketed, which is currently in Phase III of clinical trials. It is important to note that there is still no specific protocol or published research that specifically support the use of these drugs, all information about drug therapy here are from the experience of experts in the last International Epilepsy Congress.[citation needed]

Here you are asking to me about a Citation, i have the video of the International Epilepsy congress where experts spoke about it, but there is nothing published about it, in the congress Dr. Scheffer told everything, i have the video and now she is writting about it, if you want i can ask for her if she allow me to upload the video to Internet.

Thank you. (I am working a lot because is my first article in english!!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dicaluc (talkcontribs) 18:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

That's a very good question - I don't know. I am guessing that if there is a way for people to get a copy of the video (library, the organization, etc.) we can cite it as long as we have the information: title, date, publisher, who provided the information about galaxolona, how the video could be retrieved.
Alternatively: If you have the speaker's name, it may be that with the speaker's name we could google and find something on the web. Does that make sense?
By the way, if after you finish typing your comment you could add --~~~~ then that will automatically save your signature and add a date (like:--CaroleHensontalk) 18:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)). It's very cool!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
I've got to take a break and run some errands, but I'll be back in awhile.
My next source to work on is: "Prevalence of Dravet Syndrome among children with a convulsion afther vaccination, in a nationwide ten year cohort"--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:33, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

About the Dravet and other illness and vaccunation there are evidencer about the seizures and vaccination in Dravet and other epilectic disordiers, but the problem is not the vacunation, is the gene, the problem is not these evidence. The question is if the inmunitation and these seizures change the evolution of the illness, that question is the key of the research. --Dicaluc (talk) 21:18, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Yep, makes sense. From the Petrelli source I added the following bit to one sentence: "but it does not appear to affect the progression of seizures over time.[12]"
Is your comment a general one, or are you thinking more needs to be done to the [[Epilepsy in females with mental retardation#Possible association with immunizations|Immunization] section?--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:27, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it can be usefull, but But being accurate is important, inmunitation is related with seizures but not with the epilepsy, the epilepsy was there (in genes). EFMR was one of the clinical dravet syndrome before PCDH19 was discovered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dicaluc (talkcontribs) 21:57, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I'm not quite getting the point. I updated one use of "epilepsy" in the immunization article. Sorry if I'm being a bit dense, I'm not quite getting what needs to be done. I'm going to take a break, so maybe you can make the changes that you feel need to be made.
By the way, do you have the citations for any of these?
  • 11 early studies indicate that between 5% and 10% of children with febrile seizures plus could have the PCDH19 gene.[citation needed]
  • Other studies have been conducted in Belgium (Hardies et K. et al), France (Rimamnabbout et cols), Australia (Scheffer et cols), Germany (Neubauer).[citation needed]
  • It is classified as a rare disease. However, there have been no epidemiological studies yet to reflect the incidence of this syndrome and genetic studies in the epileptic population are required to know more about the incidence of EFMR.[citation needed]--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:05, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Here is the study that indicate that 5% or 10 of children with seizures could have PCDH19 there I have search in internet and it´s not in any place, "Exploring the causative role of PCDH19 Xq22 in female patients with Epilepsy". That is an study by Hardies K. (Belgiun). The role of PCDH19 in females in GEF+, a 5 % of girls with GEF+ epilepsy was positive in PCDH19 test. It is published in 29 th The international Epilepsy congress journal, 28th August, pag 94 (authors: Hardies k (1) cols: Suls A (1), Weckhuysen S.(2), Van Dyck T (1), Jassen A (1), Keleman A. (3), Fogarasi A (3), Karcagi V (4), De Jonghe P (1) (1-Belgium, 2 Netherlands, 3 Hungary, 4 Germany) -Dicaluc1 (talk) 10:13, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I found it!! it´s here

EXPLORING THE CAUSATIVE ROLE OF PCDH19 (XQ22) IN FEMALE PATIENTS WITH EPILEPSY Hardies K1,2,3, Suls A1,2,3, Weckhuysen S4, Van Dyck T1,2,3, Janssen A5, Keleman A6, Fogarasi A7, Karcagi V8, De Jonghe P1,2,9 1VIB-Department of Molecular Genetics, Antwerp, Belgium, 2Institute Born-Bunge, Antwerp, Belgium, 3University of 4 Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium, Oosterhout, The Netherlands, 5University Hospital of Brussels, Brussels, Belgium, 6National Institute of Neurosciences, Buda- pest, Hungary, 7Bethesda Children’s Hospital, Budapest, Hungary, 8Joahannes-Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany, 9University Hospital of Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium Purpose: Confirmation of PCDH19 mutations in female patients with Dravet Syndrome (DS) and examining a possible extension of the clinical spectrum. Method: We performed a mutation analysis of PCDH19 in a cohort of 25 DS or DS-like patients, eight patients with severe early onset epilep- sies and seven patients showing a wide spectrum of milder phenotypes including focal and generalized forms. We also screened an epilepsy fam- ily with a female-limited autosomal dominant inheritance pattern but without mental retardation. Sequencing data was generated by Sanger sequencing, while CNVs were determined thought multiplex amplicon quantification (MAQ). Results: Three point mutation were identified in four patients. Consis- tent with the literature we identified a recurrent missense mutation (p.N340S) in two sporadic cases of DS and one novel missense mutation (p.D341G) in a sporadic patient with a severe early onset epilepsy with clusterd eizures. On top of this another novel missense (p.Y275S) muta- tion was found in all nine affected females of the female-limited epilepsy family. MAQ analysis revealed no whole gene or partial deletions. These results show that mutations in PCDH19 are a relatively frequent cause of epilepsy in females and should be considered even in absence of family history and/or mental retardation. Conclusion: Our research confirms and strengthening previous results about PCDH19 as an emerging major gene for early onset sporadic and familial epilepsy in female patients with or without mental retardation. It also demonstrates the need for systematic screening of PCDH19 in SCN1A negative female DS patients and epilepsy families with a female- limited autosomal dominant inheritance pattern.-Dicaluc1 (talk) 10:30, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Great!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:35, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

he Dear Carole, I don´t understand what is the problem, what problem have the references, about the references about France (Rimamnabbout et cols) and Germany (Neubauer), i am deleting, because i know that exist but now could not find the studies. -Dicaluc1 (talk) 21:46, 1 January 2012 (UTC) Thank you

Hello there! I asked a doctor to look over the article and he said that it needs to use secondary sources. Most of the sources right now are published study results by the people that conducted the studies. References need to be found, such as books, journals and articles that refer to the work of the studies.

For instance, the study of the first family was reported by Scheffer, and I think Scheffer wasn't involved in the study. If that's right, then the info for the first family is good. But information about the Scheffer study must be found from another resource other than those directly involved in the study. Does that make sense?--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:37, 1 January 2012 (UTC)


It is not very friendly (or helpful) to slap "bad article" tags on an article with an "under construction" tag on it. Give me a few minutes to finish writing already. Rmhermen (talk) 19:12, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I'm using an automated program and have no idea what article you're speaking of. Sorry that I missed seeing the {{under construction}} template. If you don't want any edits at all made while you're creating an article, you may want to consider adding the {{in use}} template. I set a flag in the program to ignore all {{in use}} sitations.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:16, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
P.S. There's not a similar option to ignore "under construction".--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:20, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Orphan tagging

Hello Carole, I noticed you added an orphan tag to some species articles I made. Please read the policy on orphan tagging for organisms: [5] Cheers and a happy new year. Ruigeroeland (talk) 11:24, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

No problem, it is impossible to know every single policy on wikipedia, there are so many..! Cheers and keep up the good work! Ruigeroeland (talk) 11:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Isidor Natanson


I saw you added a couple of tags to the Isidor Natanson article. Well, the "orphan" tag is fair for now (although one can hardly expect many links to an article created less than 24h ago), but could you please explain the "wikify" tag?

Thanks a lot, Sasha (talk) 17:06, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm using the AutoWikiBrowser which is a program that looks for common formatting and other issues. I am guessing that "wikify" was identified because:
  • There is not a separate lede (intro) from the body of the article. If you expand the article, that will resolve it.
  • It seems that you could use links for "Soviet" and "mathematician"
  • You could add an Template:Infobox person
Aside from needing to expand the article, there's not a major need to "wikify" though, so I'll remove that template.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:20, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
thanks! I hope to expand it eventually.
there are now a few incoming links, so I will also remove the orphan tag.
Sasha (talk) 17:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Sounds good. As long as there are three or more incoming links from articles, the AWB program won't pick up the article as an orphan.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:24, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Lorenzo and Oglesby High school articles

Hello, I just noticed you tagged these articles as 'orphaned'. I have done well over 100 of these types of articles and this is the first time I have been tagged with this. I think in time, there will more be more info added to each that would I think link up to other articles. Thank you. Indyjrg1762 (talk) 00:59, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Yep, it's a good thing that the "orphan" tag gets assigned by the AutoWikiBrowser program when there are no or just a few articles that link to your article. Links from other articles drive up the likelihood that the article will be read. It looks like you have more than 3 articles linked to each of these articles now, so I removed the tag.--CaroleHenson (talk) 11:06, 3 January 2012 (UTC)


fyi... In Charlie McWade, DEFAULTSORT was left as "Macwade, Charlie". In the latest SVN snapshot, DEFAULTSORT would be "McWade, Charlie". The Mc -> Mac conversion was removed from WP:MCSTJR awhile back. It is not the easiest thing to keep up on the new versions of AWB or always the prudent thing, but in this case you might want to get it. Bgwhite (talk) 01:40, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

That's interesting, I just pulled the AWB program down recently. I'll look into it, thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 11:08, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

What's in store for the new year?

Happy New Year!

By the way, I've been wondering about what subjects you plan to tackle next. The Transhumanist 02:22, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

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Both are done, thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 11:12, 3 January 2012 (UTC)


Carole ... I just came to say goodbye, OK? Whatever the reason I would like to forgive me, because it was not intentional ... Namaste and be happy

--Danilo Alencar (talk) 12:17, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

There's nothing to apologize for! I see the cobweb effect article is still up and someone made an edit to it, offering a bit more info on how to improve it. I hope the new year is starting out well for you.--CaroleHenson (talk) 12:20, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Red Kitten 01.jpg

Carol, thanks for the link for images. I will study it and talk to my family and go from there.

Coug74 (talk) 21:58, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan!--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:10, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
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Phil Bridger (talk) 17:32, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

The page I "created" which you inform me of here was deleted and suppressed as a disclosure of personal information by a minor. The notice on the created page is an explanation to the original creator. It may be deleted after a few days. User:Fred Bauder Talk 17:50, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

A sort of "autobiography" I should probably have edited my boilerplate to reflect the fact it was in the article namespace. User:Fred Bauder Talk 17:57, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Violence against men

Hi. I have found an article that can be notable and important for you. I can help you to translate it from Spanish Wikipedia. Best regards. emijrp (talk) 16:30, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Please don't place speedy tags on stubs which have Expand French or language templates at the top as they are intended to be translated. Thankyou.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:19, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

That's good to know. My misunderstanding. I just saw a lot of one-line articles on WP:AWBwith no context to show notability. I'm very glad to hear that they'll be expanded to give the reader some idea of who the person is and what they did. Great news that they'll be expanded!--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:50, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion on Vrei să fii milionar? (Moldova)

Hello, CaroleHenson, I noticed that you tagged Vrei să fii milionar? (Moldova) for speedy deletion under criterion A7. I have contested the speedy deletion because the article's topic is neither a real person, individual animal(s), organization, or web content, hence it is outside of the scope of A7 (see A7 scope for more). Thanks, Quasihuman | Talk 22:06, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I changed the db template. The point is that the topic is not notable (see WP:Notability), but there are ways to fix that, such as identifying secondary sources, etc. Removing db templates is not the right way to contest a question of notability.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:14, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm not going to add much to what Anthony Bradbury said below, just to say that speedy deletion is only for the very specific cases where the community has decided that the article can be deleted speedily, and without discussion, I removed the tag because it did not meet those strict criteria. If notability is the problem, there are two other process that can deal with that. Anthony mentioned proposed deletion, which is for uncontroversial deletions which do not fit under the speedy deletion process, and do not require discussion, I agree with Anthony that that is the way to go. If that fails, there is Articles for Deletion, where there is a discussion on whether an article should be deleted or not. I hope this is helpful. Quasihuman | Talk 23:02, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Speedy Deletions

Please do not think that I am criticising you. I am not; educating, perhaps. "Not notable" is not a valid reason for a {{speedy}} deletion, however much the article may appear to deserve it. And the Moldavan version of "Who wants to be a millionaire" (Vrei să fii milionar? (Moldova)) clearly does, as posted, deserve it. But if you care to read speedy deletion criteria you will, I think, find no criterion to which this article belongs. The correct deletion path is {{prod}} in this case. Happy wikying. --Anthony Bradbury"talk" 22:49, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Anthony!--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:48, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Shen Chengyi (tonysinois)

Dear friend! Thank you so much for your advice! I'm new here and I'm Chinese, thus my English is not that pure. I hope that you can improve my edition for me :D Actually I translated that article about Ecole des Mines d'Ales from a french edtition. I hope that we can become friends!

Happy New Year! Best Regards! Shen Chengyi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonysinois (talkcontribs) 10:48, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

What a challenge, you're Chinese, working on an article that was made in French, translated into English! Very interesting.
Sure, I've enjoyed working on the article and I can help out. The first thing is that all the references come from the university itself WP:Primary sources, and need to come from reliable secondary sources. I'll do some searches a bit later on to get the ball rolling.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:23, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Re: Ant tribe

Hi Carole,

I have reviewed the current revision of the ant tribe article, and I would say that adding international viewpoints is not really a priority now, and the sections I presume that you added are probably enough as of now. However, the article requires some substantial copyediting, of which I am currently in the process. I also left some tags to mark out things that I think should be improved. You are welcome to take a look and change these things as needed! Zzarch (talk) 13:10, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, a side note is that Dr. Lian Si's last name is Lian, not Si (see Chinese names). Zzarch (talk) 13:34, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Great copy edit job! Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:17, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Kindness Barnstar Hires.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
thank you! Bizutage (talk) 14:27, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
  • My pleasure, thanks for the barnstar!!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:25, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


Please remember that a disambiguation page like this should be an orphan, but not labelled as such, and is not a stub, so should not be labelled as such. Thanks. PamD 18:59, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, my mistake, I didn't realize it was a disambiguation page when in AWB.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:04, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Have you solved your firefox problem yet?

Here's the type of thing I have in mind once you get it up and running. Though there's much more that can be done with tabs. But we've got to start somewhere. The Transhumanist 21:53, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi there, You're a good recruiter, that's for sure!
No, I've not fixed the registry and file assns issues, nor the root problem of accessing multiple pages or having my computer freeze up if I return to a search query. The good news is AWB allows me to get a lot of work done and doesn't seem to cause a problem. My computer hasn't crashed or frozen up in awhile.
But, I've been veerrrry careful and use WiseFixer nearly every day.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:21, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
AWB is actually a more advanced tool than the tools I presented in the post I pointed to. Unfortunately, some of the most advanced uses for AWB that I know of call for using it in combination with tools available on firefox. For example, WP:WikEd includes a regex-capable search/replace feature which is handy for editing lists produced in AWB's list maker — extremely handy because with regex you can do multi-line search/replaces and via this ability anchor your searches/replaces on the ends or beginnings of list entries. So you can add bullets and link brackets to all the items in a list. WP:LINKY makes firefox very useful for inspecting the work done in heavy AWB passes. I highly recommend you get the firefox problem solved.
Getting back to AWB, it is pretty powerful all by itself. More soon. The Transhumanist 01:17, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
P.S.: Concerning recruiting, the WikiProject really needs to do more of it. -TT

Outline of environmentalism (new) (eom)

Shen Chengyi (tonysinois)

Hello Carole! You've really done a great job! In terms of that article in google translation, I scanned it and there's a little part of it which mentioned that Ecole. Where exactly is that original article? It seems that it's an article about the development of the French Eucation System? :P

In the sencond part of that translation(2.The era of local initiatives, 1815-1879), find "1843 (September 22)", then you can see "Ecole Pratique des Mines d'Ales", it says that it's an Ecole inferior to Ecole des Mines St.Etienne and the students there in Ales were former miners.

It's really a long article! And google translation worked very well in translating it :D Usually I don't trust Google Translation, however this time I was astonished...

It must have taken you a lot of time to find this source...Thank you so much! Although this source only refers to the origin of this school, it's a big breakthrough for us :) This Petite Mines is not that famous as Mines Paris and St.Etienne, so secondary sources about it must be very limitted. Even though it's the most ancient one in all the four Petite Mines (Ales, Douai, Nante, Albi), it's location is a big disadvatage for it thus few people know about it.

I'll creat an english Version for "Mines Albi" later. It's a recently-founded Petite Mines like Mines Nante. In that case the french Group of Schools of Mines will be complete :)

Umm..I have two questions...You said "I put this page on watchlist" on my talk page, does that mean that I can edit your post directly and then you can see it? I'm not sure of that, so I came here to answer you on your page :P And are you from India? I noticed that you said Nama on your personal page^^ That's Sanskrit?


Shen Chengyi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonysinois (talkcontribs) 03:25, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi there,
By adding your user talk page to my watch list means that I clicked on the star on the upper right hand corner of the page. When I go to "My Watchlist" of all the items that I've selected to watch, the most recent items show up at the top of the list. For most views this is also in the upper right hand corner.
No, I'm not Indian, but I've studied eastern religion, particularly Buddhism, and Tantra for years and feel most my true self in those studies.
Glad you found the article helpful. I used the school name and "Conseil" to find the article we've been discussing. We'll just need to use other terms and we'll find more articles. It didn't take too long to find the article, it was on the second page of google search results.
I'm glad to meet you. Namaste.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:46, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Unreferenced means no references

Hi there, in regards to edits like this, please only use {{unreferenced}} when the article is actually unreferenced! If it is poorly referenced, then there are lots of other tags out there such as {{primary sources}}, {{refimprove}} (or in this case the WP:BLP equivalent {{BLP sources}}. If it is notability that you are concerned with, then {{Notability}} is the tag you are after. Regards, The-Pope (talk) 10:13, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

My mistake.--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:16, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Bouna Sarr

hello. im not sure of other directs,but thanks for fixing capitalization. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lesueur878 (talkcontribs) 14:55, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure!--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:33, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Outline of Perl (new) (eom)

Template:North American Indigenous visual artists

I suspect you might be interested in this template deletion discussion. Yworo (talk) 22:41, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Yep, I'll look into it later this afternnon.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:11, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing

Hi Carole. I think you may have done something to Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing that you didn't intend. In this edit you both created an internal (#) link to the section "When is it a problem?", and you deleted the section header for that section, making the new link you created broken. There are other broken intra-page links in the introduction as well. Could you please take a look and figure out what happened and fix it? I could try to fix it, but you know what you were trying to do better than I do :) Thanks.--Srleffler (talk) 03:29, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

GREAT catch! Done.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:47, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

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All done.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:16, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Indigenous North American art

Hello Carole. And a Happy New Year. Thought I should draw your attention to the discussion on this topic on User talk:SarahStierch's talk page. There seems to be some interest in writing an article on the subject. A starting point could be Visual arts by indigenous peoples of the Americas. Interested? - Ipigott (talk) 17:00, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi, yes that sounds like an interesting article. How would it be different than the Visual arts by indigenous peoples of the Americas article?--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:23, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
The interest in North American coverage stemmed from the corresponding template. In my own experience, it is always easier to expand on a smaller area of interest than on a large one. In particular, I would imagine that the English-speaking population of North America is likely to have a greater interest in the native culture of their own region than in that of Latin America. But I can see there are arguments in both directions. What about you? Do you feel it would be a good idea? And would you like to start the ball rolling? - Ipigott (talk) 14:47, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Sure, sounds interesting. I've got some things to take care of this morning and I'll catch up with the discussions about the article and template.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:10, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm glad to see how well things are evolving with the revised template and identification of new area deserving more specific article coverage. I look forward to reading them as they start to appear. - Ipigott (talk) 13:26, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
The template revisions kudos really go to User:Uyvsdi. I am having fun, though, working on the User:CaroleHenson/Art of the American Southwest‎. Thanks, Ipipgott!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:30, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Structured Communication - Thanks!

Hi Carole, just a quick "thank you" for cleaning up my post on Structured Communication, which was was my first article for Wikipedia. You made it look a lot better and have given me some guidelines for future updates and articles. higgins887 (talk) 22:37, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure, I'm glad it helped!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:18, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Outline of prehistory

The Transhumanist 19:56, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Yep, that makes sense!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:50, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
But it's a red alert! No content = no sense.  ;)
Hint, hint. The Transhumanist 23:53, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Restructuring template

Hey Carole, if you are interested, would you care to join the discussion at Template talk:North American Indigenous visual artists? Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 22:02, 13 January 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

What is fiction?

Is this accurate? Is it complete? Please take a quick look. Thank you. The Transhumanist 23:55, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

About Alliance Francaise Ahmedabad

Hey, thanks I'll make sure and edit the text so that it would no longer be in violation of copyright, I'll add links to related articles and I'll also seek more information from the AF ahmedabad office itself. And I'd like any kind of help. Let's Edit.

I'm editing it rght now and I'll send let you know in about an hour. you can check the article and tell me if you have any more suggestions.
I edited the page. You might wanna take a look. Tell me if there is something still need to be changed. I added Infobox, two new sections Other Indian Chapters and History.
Hi I got your message but I think Those links to AF paris, Alliance Francaise page links are enough. right? (point 3-1). Reply soon.
I checked that out.. Great job.. Kudos to both of us. And I'm adding AF Ahmedabad to Mahatma Gandhi International School right now, and yes I'll try to get someone from other cities so they can write articles about their local AF chapters. And afterwards we'll link them up.. okay? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kondicherry (talkcontribs) 18:01, 16 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kondicherry (talkcontribs) 15:19, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Sure, sounds good. Let me know if I can help along the way.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:08, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Sure :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kondicherry (talkcontribs) 18:12, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


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Yes check.svg Done--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:55, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


Would you have any interest in narrowing down your article to focus on indigenous art of the Southwest? Native American jewelry is mostly focused on the Southwest but some of the information is a bit touristy/commercial/antiquated. Navajo weaving is pretty well written. Other articles you might link/incorporate include Navajo dolls, Zuni fetishes, Heishe, and the contents of Category:Pueblo art. Tell me if you need photos of any particular art form or any people, and I'll contribute them to Commons if I can. -Uyvsdi (talk) 19:54, 17 January 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Oh, hi, glad you took a look at the outline. I bulleted your items here with my response for an easier response/read:
  • Would you have any interest in narrowing down your article to focus on indigenous art of the Southwest?
What I was thinking was just having the high level overview in the "history" section to show the influences over time. I don't mind removing the pre-pueblo people if you'd like, but I think the historical influences are interesting and show the progression of art over time. I had not intended on expandind that section much more than it is now (i.e., maybe 25% or less).
The rest of the article is about Puebloan, Native American and a smidge of Spanish Southwest unique items. How does that sound?
  • Native American jewelry is mostly focused on the Southwest but some of the information is a bit touristy/commercial/antiquated.
Agreed, for instance there's some tremendous Native American modern jewelry. Generally, the intention is to not duplicate existing articles, but give a bit of flavor so that someone could read about the types of art unique/specific common in the Southwest. Does that make sense?
Thanks, I'll check it out!!!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:12, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh, and yes, images would be Grrreat!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:18, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm pretty focused on indigenous American art. If you need any assistance/references/image for indigenous articles, let me know. -Uyvsdi (talk) 22:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Ok, it sounds like what you want to do is a subset of the article - I'm guessing focusing on the historic, tribal period for Native American art in the Southwest. If you want, feel free to take was is drafted so far for the article that you want to write.
I could then have two choices: 1) continue the article without the Native American pieces you want to cover, reference your article, and wrap the other periods around it or 2) write kman outline of Southwestern art that spans the entire period of time and cultural influences. It's seeming like you'd like to take the article and write it for your scope, is that right?--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:59, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi, you should write whatever interests you the most - don't worry about my interests, which span all time frames (hence Timeline of Native American art history). The articles I mentioned fall into the purview of SW art; they aren't articles I've written (I have, however, written the bios on the living SW artists Annie Antone, Terrol Dew Johnson, and Linda Lomahaftewa). I haven't expressed any interest in starting my own article surveying SW art at all; I simply offered to help you if you have specific requests about Native art. -Uyvsdi (talk) 01:00, 18 January 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Ok, my misunderstanding.--CaroleHenson (talk) 06:34, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
You're doing a great job building that article BTW...Modernist (talk) 21:09, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Thanks, Modernist! I've had some things to take care of over the past couple of days - and have been reading about the Hopi for info for the article. I'm having fun working on this article. Thanks for your help along the way! Much appreciated!--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:26, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Carole for keeping me posted on your on-going involvement. I glad I managed to rope you in on a field that obviously interests you. From now on, though, I'll leave it to you. Good luck! - Ipigott (talk) 10:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Ipipgott! I appreciate you giving me a heads up about the topic! Good to be in touch.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:57, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Farms near Auvers (Van Gogh)

Hi Carole,

I see you have edited at Farms near Auvers, which I've just been editing. I'm planning to contribute stubs for the entire Auvers period. I'll be working backwards in the catalogue I think. All welcome to join! I suggest we take Farms as our model. LornaDooneBlackmore (talk) 16:16, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll also be editing at Portrait of Dr. Gachet soon, where I've already made some preliminary edits, including deleting this masterpiece of junior high: "It was the only portrait painted by van Gogh during his stay at the doctor's home in Auvers-sur-Oise (27.2 km outside Paris), a 70 day period from May to July 1890." :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LornaDooneBlackmore (talkcontribs) 03:25, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Sounds great! As I mentioned on your talk page, sorry for the delay in responding to you. I'll check out the articles you've mentioned.--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:02, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Overall, your edits look really good! I was a bit confused by the addition of a painting - not mentioned in the article - that threw off the reference section, so I commented it out. If you'd like to keep the painting in, maybe you could have another section for "Related paintings" or "Other paintings of thatched roofs" and move the painting into that section. Does that make sense?--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:23, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Olive Trees (Van Gogh series)

You seem to be the principal author emphasising religious themes in Olive Trees (Van Gogh series). Can we have cites please for "One painting, The Olive Trees, a complement to The Starry Night, symbolized the divine", for "It is also an example of how individuals, through interaction with nature, can connect with the divine", and a direct secondary reference (rather than a general primary reference to his letters) for "By 1879, he made a shift in the direction of his life and found he could express his "love of God and man" through painting".

The first is an especially surprising remark as The Olive Trees and The Starry Night are expressly mentioned in a widely quoted 18 Jan 1889 letter as not being a return to religious or romantic (i.e. to do with man's relationship with nature) themes and continues with remarks anticipating his Expressionism. Indeed this is what is emphasised in MOMA's own description of the painting There are some muddled remarks in this direction in the "Analysis" section, but they ought to be in the lede.

I feel should also have a cite for "Van Gogh found respite and relief in interaction with nature, but not enough to cure his ill-health and melancholy; he was dead less than a year after completing this series." The suggestion is that he was driven to painting by his ill-health, but that is false; indeed that he tried to cure his ill-health by painting, but that is also demonstrably false as he was generally incapable of painting in periods of ill-health (the attacks); that he was melancholic, but that is questionable and a judgement on his medical condition; and finally that ill-health brought about his demise, i.e. his suicide, but that is also open to dispute, indeed whether he committed suicide at all. LornaDooneBlackmore (talk) 03:11, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a look at these in a bit more detail. Items in the lede do not generally need to be cited if they are cited in the body of the article. I'll look into your questions about whether the sentenced written in the body of the article are apt. The body of the article is well-cited, but if there are differing opinions from solid sources we should definitely say so. Great work on your point to review this in such detail!--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:31, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
A couple of quick things:
1. Regarding your comment: Can we have cites please for "One painting, The Olive Trees, a complement to The Starry Night, symbolized the divine"?
Yes, that makes sense. It will take me a bit of time to figure out the right sources (reference numbers 13-21)
2. Regarding your comment: The first is an especially surprising remark as The Olive Trees and The Starry Night are expressly mentioned in a widely quoted 18 Jan 1889 letter as not being a return to religious or romantic (i.e. to do with man's relationship with nature) themes and continues with remarks anticipating his Expressionism.
Could there be another date for the letter? I'm not finding a letter dated 18 Jan 1889. Do you know who it was written to? That would help!
3. I'm not sure that I get the point about the MOMA description, which is a cursory description of the painting and in no way refutes the points about symbolizing the divinity.
4. Regarding your comment: I feel should also have a cite for "Van Gogh found respite and relief in interaction with nature, but not enough to cure his ill-health and melancholy; he was dead less than a year after completing this series." The suggestion is that he was driven to painting by his ill-health, but that is false; indeed that he tried to cure his ill-health by painting, but that is also demonstrably false as he was generally incapable of painting in periods of ill-health (the attacks); that he was melancholic, but that is questionable and a judgement on his medical condition; and finally that ill-health brought about his demise, i.e. his suicide, but that is also open to dispute, indeed whether he committed suicide at all.
I'm not quite sure that I understand how all of your points relate to the quoted sentence, but I'm sure that we can work out some edits. How would it be if we cut it down to "Van Gogh found respite and relief in interaction with nature." - that will be very easy for me to find a citation and avoid the language that seems to be an issue for you. Does that work for you?
Again, great, great review! The articles are definitely better with your review! Great job!--CaroleHenson (talk) 08:12, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Regarding items 1-3, you're right! I couldn't find the citation - and found information that the paintings did not reflect painting of the divine. So, I made an edit to the sentence in the lede about Starry Night/Olive Trees. I also make the edit for "respite and relief" in the lede. --CaroleHenson (talk) 08:31, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Please remember to list at WP:CP

When tagging a page witgh {{copyvio}} please remember to also list it at WP:CP as described in the instructions in the template. The copyvio at Sargelu formation has only jsut be dealt with as those that deal with copyvios at WP:CP were unaware of it. A bot would normally automatically list anything that was not listed but this was down for several months and it's best it is not relied upon. Dpmuk (talk) 22:24, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks!

Art of the American Southwest

I took the liberty of moving this wonderful piece to article space, to make it easier for the general public to find and benefit from. It may attract more editors there too. I'm impressed.

I added a link to the article at Visual art of the United States#The American Southwest, and copied the paragraph that was there and added it to the article you wrote. Your contribution is a very nice expansion of the subject of art in the US.

Found some sources that might be helpful...:

Hope that helps. The Transhumanist 21:16, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely, thanks! I haven't forgotten about it, it's just been a busy time with moving, taking writing and copyediting courses and looking for a job. I want to get back online and copyedit some of the things I've worked on and finished this article. Your getting it posted will at least allow other contributors to weigh in until I get a bit more settled. Thanks so much!!!!--CaroleHenson (talk) 06:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
You are welcome. Good luck with your employer hunt. The Transhumanist 22:12, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Great work Carole, thanks for your efforts, much needed article...Modernist (talk) 22:19, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:21, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

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Just wanted to alert you to a discussion at Talk:Taos, New Mexico#Radio stations that you might be interested in. Yworo (talk) 00:12, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Cto

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Ports

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Prehistoric rock art

Hi. Good to note your contribution to Gavali, Karnataka and other topics.

The article contains the following sentances added by you:- Prehistoric rock art has been found in the Gavali, Hire Benkal, Chik Rampur, and Sonda (Uttara Kannada district) areas in Karnataka. The most common designs are engraved two double-lined square with bull's legs, an endless six knot design, and intersecting loops in the corners. The design is believed by local people to have magical powers and is still used to cure cattle horn diseases.<ref>Sundara, Dr. A. [ Pre historic art in Karnataka] IGNCA Newsletter. Vol. V September - October 2003. Retrieved 2011-11-11.</ref>

  • Actually, the prehistoric rock art is found in Gavali, Udupi as per citations added in the above writings. The citation/sourse says, "Gavali, Kundapura (a town in Udupi District)"; as such, I have slightly modified the above paragraph. Kindly have a look and if necessary, modification may be made in Gavali, Karnataka.
  • I have used same sourse/citation as a sourse for rock art at Gavali, Udupi and am sure that the rock drawings of humped bull and rangoli is there on a rock at Gavali, Udupi even today.
  • Gavali, Udupi and Gavali, Karnataka are two different villages.

Thank you.Rayabhari (talk) 08:48, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Great catches! Thanks so much for catching them!--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:04, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


Forced evictions in Azerbaijan

I hope you don't mind, but I removed the orphan tag from the top of the aforementioned article. The reason is because I have added links to it elsewhere, which means it is no longer orphaned according the basic Wikipedia definition.

And also, thank you for your assistance on the article, I appreciate it. Take care. =) Master&Expert (Talk) 07:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Not at all. Great job on the article! Looks good.--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:30, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! It's a work in progress, but I do have every intention of bringing it to DYK sometime within the next few days. It'll be my second ever, and the first since 2008. =) Master&Expert (Talk) 07:40, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Great idea to bring it to DYK! Glad your enjoying yourself!--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:45, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Also, thank you for adding the WikiProject templates to the article's talk page. I appreciate it. Master&Expert (Talk) 02:38, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
My pleasure! It seems you've been hard at work. Great work!--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:40, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Writers Barnstar Hires.png The Writer's Barnstar
Thank-you Carol
Mkd07 (talk) 08:54, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Your welcome, I'm glad I could help!--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Armenian Genocide in culture

Yes, I am going to expand it and thank you for your edits. I appreciate it.--Yerevanci (talk) 22:07, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Zündwaren monopoly

Hello Carol, I appreciate your support and encouragement. Thank you so much! The images are actually taken from the original German article. I re-arranged them a bit and translated the captions. Since you are interested in Germany and its economy, you might find this article interesting too: Federal Office of Economics and Export Control NordhornerII_The man from Nordhorn 19:34, 6 August 2012 (UTC) (talk)

My pleasure. I'm working on something right now, but I'd love to take a lot at the other article.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:50, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Reginald Hallward

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article Reginald Hallward has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, all newly created biographies of living persons must have at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. noq (talk) 14:45, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Yep, I know - thanks! I'm working copy editing Works of Reginald Hallward right now and will add references soon (within hours).--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:52, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

French war memorials...

Just to say "nice work" with regards to the recent editing on the French war memorials! Hchc2009 (talk) 06:11, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I seemed to get caught up in it! There's still more work to do, but hopefully it's at a much better place for readers.--CaroleHenson (talk) 06:44, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Reginald Hallward/Rachel de Montmorency and Mabel Esplin

See you have been busy and have looked closely at my articles on the above three stained glass artists. You will see that there is a navigation box which was added by another editor and that will show you that there are several other articles that I have written on this subject matter.

I can see from your intervention that the articles are much improved and wish you well.

I have also written articles on various sculptors and French War memorials. See list below so if you wish to take your scalpel to these then please go ahead.

Pages created by Weglinde:

1.Hugh_Arnold Yes check.svg Done
2.Mabel_Esplin Yes check.svg Done - 13 Aug: formatted added citations, having provided comments about the nature of the updates
3.Rachel_de_Montmorency Yes check.svg Done
4.Works_of_Reginald_Hallward Yes check.svg Done
18.Nathaniel_Hitch - In progress, including breaking out his works into a separate article (work in progress
22.Frederick_Brook_Hitch Yes check.svg Done 14 Aug: copy edits - format citations - add links
23.William_Robert_Colton Yes check.svg Done 14 Aug: citation fmt edits
29.Edmond_Delphaut Yes check.svg Done 14 Aug: looks good
32.Maurice_Ringot - I think I did something on this
36.War_memorials_(Aisne) Yes check.svg Done
37.War_memorials_(Oise) Yes check.svg Done
38.Exterior_sculpture_of_Guildford_Cathedral Yes check.svg Done 14 Aug: 2nd sweep for cit fmt, edits. Also see: Talk:Exterior sculpture of Guildford Cathedral
42.Carnforth_War_Memorial Yes check.svg Done
43.War_memorials_(Eastern_Somme) Yes check.svg Done
44.War_memorials_(Western_Somme) Yes check.svg Done
56.Herbert_Tyson_Smith Yes check.svg Done
58.Derby_War_Memorial Yes check.svg Done 14 Aug: looks good

I retired a few years ago and thought I would have a go at writing some articles for wikipedia. I had been at The National Archives for years and wrote several pieces for their "Your archives" project.

To be honest I doubt that I shall write any further articles and as for what I have written so far I welcome anyone working to improve/enlarge them.

Keep up the good work. Weglinde (talk) 14:30, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi there! Well your having worked in the National Archives explains why you pick such interesting articles. I've checked off the ones I've done some editing on above.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:16, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

On my previous entry I missed off "8" between for and years. Would not want to mislead you. Prior to that I was a "business man" for 40 years travelling extensively in Africa.

All power to your elbow as you look at my articles but above all I hope that you enjoy reading them. My four articles on the Somme, Aisne and Oise were the articles I enjoyed researching the most; the Great War remains an abiding interest. As for sculptors Jagger and Marsden are my favourites.

Incidentally I had not looked back at my articles on French scupltors and Picardy since they were written and I was sad to see that so many of my photographs had been deleted (not by you of course). Seems the French are much stricter on FOP/copyright. I do think that this is a pity as the works are all on public display. Some are I think quite beautiful and as not everyone has the opportunity of seeing them "in the flesh" it seemed a good opportunity to bring them to the attention of a wider audience.

Anyway I have enjoyed our "brief encounter" and as I said earlier I do hope that you enjoy and indeed learn from working through my articles.

Weglinde (talk) 08:56, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello again, Yes. I really have been enjoying the articles quite a bit. It's been a bit since I've worked on visual arts - and I'm particularly enjoying that! Right now I'm a bit caught up in Nathaniel Hitch. (I have not been feeling great and have had a wild case of insomnia - and my solution always is to write on days I'm not up to being out and about.)
It would be good to touch base on Hitch - even though it's still a work-in-progress, I put the Works of Nathaniel Hitch in article space. It will show up as a new article and some people might pop in.
One of my challenges is finding sources for the uncited information - and it sounds like Leeds was a tremendous resource for you. Do you remember where there might be Leeds source information for the incredible wealth of information you have on Hitch?
Regarding your past experiences, it sounds very exciting to have traveled to Africa quite a bit - I hope you got to enjoy it! I was in business for 30 or so years and traveled quite a bit for business myself - but most of it on continental U.S.
Good to hear from you!--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:42, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Golly you have been busy!

Concerning Nathaniel Hitch Leeds was in fact a treasure-house of information and I spent three whole days at the Henry Moore Archive going through their Hitch papers. They have in fact put a copy of my article in the archive and also sent it to the Hitch family who were kind enough to contact me and thank me for my efforts.

Here is a link to the papers they have.

If this link does not work the papers are summarised thus.

RefNo  Title  Date  

1 1999.1 Photograph album of the sculpture of Nathaniel Hitch and others c.1890-1930 2 2004.26 Photograph albums of the sculpture of Nathaniel Hitch and Frederick Brook Hitch c.1870-1957 3 2009.21 Three lists of works executed by Nathaniel Hitch between 1885 and 1930 n.d. [1885-1930] 4 2009.21/1 Printed list of works by Nathaniel Hitch n.d. [c1899] 5 2009.21/2 Photocopy of abridged supplementary list of work by Nathaniel Hitch n.d. [c1930] 6 2009.21/3 Photocopy of abridged supplementary list of work by Nathaniel Hitch n.d. [c1925]

  Page: 1 of 1    

Concerning your various edits I intend to follow as it were in your wake and over the coming days try to respond to your tags in particular "refimprove tag".

This leads me to a procedural question. One I have added "citations for verification" is it in order for me to remove the tag or should I leave this to you/others to do?

I shall start today on Mabel Esplin and work through the articles as and when you yourself have looked through them.

Again let me say how much I value your intervention and if fact I am enjoying revisting the articles.

Weglinde (talk) 11:55, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

  • The information from Leeds is interesting! I am a bit confused about whether it would be considered a primary resource (and not considered a "reliable source" because it was written by the subject of the article or if it would be considered a secondary source because it was archived. Hmmmm. I am a bit confused about that.
I think though that we could add this list as a bibliography item and add as many published sources as we can find.
  • Regarding removing the tags - if you think you've addressed the tags, then remove them. I've flagged most of the articles so I can pop back to check formatting, etc.
  • I'm glad that it's fun to revisit the articles. They are definitely interesting! It's fun to be working with someone again. I did that a lot early on when I had several great people helping me out. I've kind of missed working fairly solo for a bit.--CaroleHenson (talk) 12:24, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
  • The Leeds papers were indeed collected by Hitch himself. Seems he liked to photograph works in his workshop before they went

to their final destination. Your bibliography solution is a good one.

  • On removal of tags that is perfect. I have already done so for Mabel Esplin and Rachel Montmorency.

Weglinde (talk) 16:12, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello again,
I see that you've been busy, too. I'll go back and take a peak at the updates. And, I still have some more work to do on Works of Nathaniel Hitch. You have so much interesting information in the article. For brevity and to fit the goal of publishing information related to the topic of the article, I've pruned down some areas (interesting side comments about the churches, local history, areas where work is "probably" done by the artist) to focus on encyclopedic content. The flavor that you add, though, would make very interesting information for published articles, blogs or a personal website! If you disagree, though, with some of the edits, please let me know. I've been charging ahead, yet very much respect the level of effort you put into researching these articles - particularly Nathaniel Hitch.
In the meantime I checked in on use of a local historian for a reference and heard back that:
The very first part of WP:Reliable sources policy says "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published sources," (my emphasis). A word-of-mouth report of or by a local historian simply isn't good enough.
Has the info been published in a local newspaper or other published source?--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:56, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
(Oh, and I added a couple more checks to articles that I did some editing on that I missed earlier.::::

I am quite happy that you make whatever changes you feel are necessary and I will tell you if there is any change that I am not happy with. You will at all times have your "wikipedia hat" on and for that reason I am happy to put the articles into your care. When writing them I was always conscious that they should be encyclopedic in form and knew that very often I wrote in a non-encyclopedic form. When you talk of " info published in a local newspaper or other published source" I guess you are talking of matters Hitchian and I am not aware of any such publication. I looked at Hitch's photographs in his Leeds albums which were usually tagged although sometimes in a mis-leading fashion and took it from there, really doing some detective work to track down the work and then make as sure as I could that I was looking at the correct end-source. Often I was able to send this or that church a copy of the album photograph, in effect saying "is this in your church?".

Anyway I repeat that I am happy to leave changes to your discretion.

I note that you have ticked a few more of my articles to show that you have looked at them. This is most helpful and I would ask that you tick them off as you do them. This will enable me to follow up on those articles you have looked at and take what remedial action I can. I cannot promise to always react immediately but will try not to lag too far behind.

On the articles on Christopher Whall, the listing of his works and the notes on his Gloucester Cathedral windows I would ask that you try to keep any changes to a minumum. I have had them printed into a book by Pediapress and have three copies to take with me to Gloucester where I intend trying to interest the cathedral bookshop in taking them as a possible stock item. It is no problem for me to tell them that there have been a few changes since the book was printed but knowing that there are wholesale changes might put them off. I go to Gloucester in October. I thought I should mention this but would not of course expect you to shirk making changes if you thought them necessary. The three Whall articles are the only ones where I do have this worry. For the rest it is of no great importance as to how many changes you make. I can already see that you would not make changes for the sake of it.

I seem to be going on a bit so will sign off and will get cracking when you let me know of further articles that you have ticked off.

Weglinde (talk) 21:40, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good!--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:58, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

As we shall be exchanging messages quite frequently whilst we go through my articles please confirm that when I put something On my "talk" page you do pick it up. For example this morning I have made reference to your super effort on the template for war memorials and put this on my "talk" page. Will you automatically pick such messages up? My seem a silly question but I am new to much of this having up to now worked mostly in isolation.

Weglinde (talk) 08:56, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Yes, I'll see it. Maybe not right away, 'cause I don't get an instant message that it's been updated. I have your talk page on my watch list, though, so I will see it. If there's ever anything you want me to see straight away you can post this on my talk page (without the nowikis if you copy from "edit" mode): {{talkback|Weglinde}} and I'll get a instant notification.--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:02, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


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Hello, CaroleHenson. You have new messages at SarahStierch's talk page.
Message added 16:47, 17 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

SarahStierch (talk) 16:47, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Caroline Townshend-attempt at revision

I am glad that you spoke of the need for a slow down as frankly I am finding this all quite exhausting. I have worked for most of the day on Caroline Townshend and will leave it now until I feel fresher. As you will see I have removed whole swaithes of text and only left what is in the citation. I have to visit some relatives tomorrow so will go back to Townshend on Tuesday but clearly this whole exercise will take a long time. On the Pevsner links I sometimes have the page number but where it is missing this will have to do as otherwise I would have to trek to the local library. Confirm that I shall return to Townshend on Tuesday. I cannot seem to get the citations right!! Weglinde (talk) 15:34, 19 August 2012 (UTC) After a snooze in the garden and a cup of tea I revisitec Caroline Townshend,made several changes and it is perhaps not as bad as I thought! Please have a look through to see whether it could be considered "done". The Huyton Chapel work turns out to have been by Howson only so I will move to a more suitable slot. Perhaps create a "Works by Joan Howson only". Weglinde (talk) 17:18, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

  • Great! I'm loving going at a slower pace now that we've made such good progress. I'll work on Caroline Townshend a bit - focusing on her biography (and not works) sections for the moment and try to open up just those sections so I don't trample on what you'd like to do with her works sections.
  • It may be that the Pevsner book is online at google books - if so that should help finding the page.
  • The citations are tricky. Some more practice should help - you may want to look at the ones that I correct to see where I found the info.
  • I'm really enjoying the Caroline Townshend article - interesting woman!--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:06, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

Special Barnstar Hires.png The Special Barnstar
Thank you very much for helping adding images to the night in paintings article! :D  RexRowan  Talk  12:51, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
My pleasure. I'll work on the article over a week or two, but it's interesting to get the creative juices flowing to start with images. Thanks for the kudos!--CaroleHenson (talk) 12:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
There's a large selection of images on commons if you search the same words and I did a search on the National Gallery website, they have many in collection too but I'm not sure if I can use them. The ones on commons only seem to have copy rights in America so it'd be good if you can upload them from your side I guess. :D -- RexRowan  Talk  12:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, that's exactly where I'm at. Incredible selection of works - I'm just pulling potential examples right now. There's so many great options that they might change as the article progresses and key points are sought. I'll look on the National Gallery site, too. Good idea.--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:01, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Check this out, not sure it's linked to our site though. [6] -- RexRowan  Talk  14:05, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Very cool. Do you want me to download it and upload it to the commons?--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:07, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Meissen-teacup pinkrose01.jpg For the quick fix of the Night in paintings article ItemirusMessage me! 14:41, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! I think it will be a work in progress over a week or two, but it looks like it could be a very interesting article!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:45, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Fine Arts Star.png The Barnstar of Fine Arts
For your generous contribution in night in paintings  RexRowan  Talk  09:16, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Biographystar.png The Biography Barnstar
Thank you for helping out on Petrus van Schendel article! Many thanks!  RexRowan  Talk  09:22, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
My pleasure!--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:51, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

art movement

Carole,do you know which art movement Petrus van Schendel belonged in? I knew he paint night paintings but not sure which movement. Thank you! -- RexRowan  Talk  14:54, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't. But I'll check around. I was just finishing something up before I return to Night in paintings. Great work by you and Modernist this morning!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:59, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
You too Carol, you are a great person to work with! I hope to collaborate in future projects with you! I have written a dedication on my user page for you. :D -- RexRowan  Talk  15:03, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
My guess is Romanticism...Modernist (talk) 15:12, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Ok, great - I'll get a citation for it. That makes the looking so much easier!
I'll jump back in now. Thanks so much for filling in the gaps in centuries! I'll just open one century section at a time so hopefully there are limited edit conflicts.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:16, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you both so much!-- RexRowan  Talk  15:17, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Wow, there's been so much great work in such a short span of time. So much has happened that I thought I'd just touch base about a couple of things:

  1. Is the purpose of the article to illustrate the way that night is depicted? Or, more broadly to any paintings made about a nighttime scene?
  2. I added something to Talk:Night in paintings about caption format we discuss on . I always struggle with that, so I checked in on that a bit ago.
  3. I see that the right hand border of images that went down the "non gallery" sections was moved in with the author, which allows for greater flexibility for adding images without reformatting. I get that. I'm just wondering if we want to put some pictures on the right, like Whistler, for instance to reduce white space. What do you think?
  4. The article is getting kind of long already and I haven't really started writing yet - I've mostly just pulled from artists articles. Is it possible that we may at some point want to break this into smaller articles if it's too big? What is the size limit (I have no idea) before someone assigns the "too long" tag?

Sorry to hit with so many questions. I'm not meaning at all to sound confrontational - I just thought it might be good to touch base on these things. And, I think you probably know about these things better than I do.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:47, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Carol, wow, you are on fire! I'm a newbie and am quite confused myself. I think the oriental vertical ones would be good to put on the right for decoration purposes. Should we write it as a whole or break it up between Eastern and Western paintings or paintings features the night scene and night activities? I have a feeling this is going to be one of the best project ever made on wiki, itself is already encyclopedic! We should write a book on it and send it to the publishers, hehehe :D -- RexRowan  Talk  16:53, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
I like your enthusiasm!
Regarding article length - I found the following at WP:Article size. We're already at about 40,000 bites and most of that is pictures, so it's a long page to scroll through
A page of about 30 kB to 50 kB of readable prose, which roughly corresponds to 6,000 to 10,000 words, takes between 30 and 40 minutes to read at average speed, which is right on the limit of the average concentration span of 40 to 50 minutes. At 50 kB and above it may benefit the reader to consider moving some sections to other articles and replace them with summaries per Wikipedia:Summary style - see WP:SIZERULE for "a rule of thumb". Comprehension of standard texts at average reading speed is around 65%.
I'm not sure what the best approach is. The article as of last night focuses primarily on the evolution of the use of chiaroscuro. Adding the oriental pictures is interesting (love them!!) but it adds another element where there doesn't seem to be much of a use of light and dark contracts to depict where and how light falls, at least not early on.
Hmmm. I'm at a bit of a loss.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:05, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
You know what, the more I think about it, the more I like your idea of a separate oriental article - it would be beautiful. What do you think about the names:
Should we run it by the Visual arts talk page?--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:11, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, good idea. We can explain the oriental painters like to follow their masters to show respect, that's why they all look similar. Also they describe night with clothing, activity, trees, and writings on the side. It is interesting, not due to the lack of ink though. I saw a Japanese painter just inked the sky black. -- RexRowan  Talk  17:15, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Sounds good! There are also nuances with the block carving to make the prints. I think it would be a very interesting article. I'll go ahead and do that!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:18, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

As you can tell by the blue links, the splitting into two article is done. That's going to be really pretty. I still wonder about image placement - but that might become clearer as the article unfolds.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:34, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
By the way, I left the "In use" template on so that you could and more images, content, etc. without the automated editors kicking off lots of tags for a "work in progress".--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:39, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much, well done on splitting and putting up the template! I have much to learn from you. -- RexRowan  Talk  17:42, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Please only include highly notable works from the 20th and 21st century - currently we are using a Magritte, a Hopper, a Bellows, a Rousseau, and a Howard Pyle and an anonymous graffiti. In my opinion the Pyle and the graffiti are unnecessary, although I think they they can stay...Modernist (talk) 17:44, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
To Rex: My pleasure! I just made an offer to you on the eastern version talk page that I'd be happy to help out as needed for wiki things. The arts and art historians can help more on what makes an artwork notable, etc. (In fact I'm a bit over my head on writing content about the depiction of night, but there's actually already much that's been written about it on WP that's giving me a good head start. Not to mention the huge impact of having notable artists and works already identified!). Just stop on by any time!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:48, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
To Modernist, I don't remind removing the two that you mentioned: Pyle and graffiti. I added them early on before great works of art were selected. I'll take care of that.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:48, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

An invitation for you!

Crystal 128 kuser.png
Hello, CaroleHenson. We are in the early stages of initiating a project to plan, gain consensus on, and coordinate adding a feature to the main page wherein an article will be listed daily for collaborative improvement. If you're interested in participating, please add your name to the list of members.

 Happy editing! AutomaticStrikeout 20:59, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Thank you so much for your tireless contribution and beautiful writing in both night paintings articles. With greatest respect and admiration! :D  RexRowan  Talk  14:50, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks so much, Rex! It's great working with you. I'm excited about where the articles are going!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:55, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

::Hi Carole, I found a few night paintings on the Chinese Wikies, it is ok to nick them? -- RexRowan  Talk  17:14, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Quite lovely, thanks!
Regarding the "night paintings on the Chinese Wikies, it is ok to nick them?" What do you mean "nick them"?--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:34, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Oh sorry, it's British term for stealing. -- RexRowan  Talk  17:36, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Ok, let me try this. Rex - If you're meaning that there are images in the Chinese articles about night - can you take the images that are used there: that makes sense to me as long as they are 1) notable, 2) the images add something new to the conversation about conveying night that existing placed images don't and 3) we follow guidelines (public domain, fair use, etc.).--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:22, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Does that make sense? Or, have I missed something in the question?--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:30, 26 August 2012 (UTC)


Hi Carole I'm thinking of adding the Magritte to the four examples as a fifth example if you don't mind - can't be placed in the galleries per guidelines...Modernist (talk) 17:38, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

I have to say I'm a bit lost. Modernist do you mind tackling Rex's question?
Regarding the Magritte - if it can't be place in the galleries, then why are we adding it? Sorry, I'm thinking I'm missing a finer point.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:45, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Carole the fair use guidelines are a bit strange - in terms of the imagery in the article at present - only the Hopper and the Magritte are fair use and neither should be placed in galleries; at the moment neither are - we're using both of them as thumbnails...Modernist (talk) 18:26, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
My initial reaction is that you know more about this than I do. There's only one Magritte now that I see in the article - so that's part of my confusion. I'm still a bit stumped - but if you don't add it to the gallery and keep it as a thumbnail, isn't that good?
Or, is the issue that it's not "technically" in the gallery format - but it's in the Gallery section?
Great work so far, by the way! Thanks so much for watching out that we're doing the right thing - and broadening the artwork in the article. It's looking really good!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:33, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Ah, the lightbulb just went on!!! The fifth famous examples! Sorry, I was slow on the uptake. Looks good to me!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:36, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Night in paintings (Western art) - outline

As an FYI, I've started User:CaroleHenson/Night in paintings (Western art) list to track the progress on the article. It's just a "to do" list for me to keep things straight as I move down the article, especially since some things are going on the back-burner if I cannot easily find good info (I may trip upon it later).

Feel free to add comments or items to the list.--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:13, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

The Eastern Front

Inspired by you: User:RexRowan/Night_in_paintings_(Eastern_art)_list Smiley.svg -- RexRowan  Talk  09:50, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

looks good!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:31, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Hi Carole, back on now. I wrote some notes yesterday on the Eastern art article, they were not cited. It's some general impressions, I will try to add sources for the night scenes and delete the background infos. -- RexRowan  Talk  08:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

Citation Barnstar Hires.png The Citation Barnstar
Thank you for everything you have done! You rock! :D  RexRowan  Talk  14:48, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, Rex!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:59, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Bi with two dragons and grain pattern.jpg The Arts & Crafts Barnstar
Thank you very much for sorting out the Chinese Arts And Crafts article, you are amazing! -- -- RexRowan  Talk  17:32, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! There are two items that I added to the talk page: one about moving the article name and the other about merging with the Chinese folk art article, which are inter-related issues.
For your article, you may want to be careful not to duplicate the information that that's in the "main" articles for some of the topics - but provide a summary of the information about that topic - if that makes sense. For instance the Chinese ceramics article has tons of information about history and the types of ceramics. It might be good to summarize the nature of Chinese ceramics - and then the reader can get more indepth info in the Chinese ceramics article. Does that make sense in terms of strategy?--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:37, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I will give it a go. I'm not partially good at writing so please help out wherever you think is needed! Thank you! :D -- RexRowan  Talk  17:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


Hello Carole, have you heard of this? [7] I am a member! You can join too! :D -- RexRowan  Talk  18:30, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

No, I'm not part of that group. I'll think about it - I don't work in media a lot, but I do add categories, etc. from time to time. I joined another collaborative group, though, on Wikipedia that I think you're part of - it deals with collaboration on expanding new articles.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:57, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Of course! I'm new so still poking around testing the water. :D -- RexRowan  Talk  19:01, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Special Barnstar Hires.png The Special Barnstar
Wow, I like what you did. The photos look better when enlarged. Thank you very much for your generous input. It looks amazing! :D  RexRowan  Talk  16:58, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
My pleasure! I'm thinking that it's going to be your desire to keep putting images in this article. You may want to consider not adding any more for the moment. If you want to add something you like better than the present examples, maybe you could swap it out. How does that sound?--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:11, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much, it looks good as it is already! -- RexRowan  Talk  17:13, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Yep. I guess I should have said: for the sections that just have one or two items you might want to add a couple more.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:17, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
I've got to take a break for a bit - but I'll be back.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:18, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
I really like the blue hair deco you added, not sure how to wear it but it makes me want to be a fancy hat designer of some sort. Face-grin.svg -- RexRowan  Talk  17:23, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
I know, it's cool! I like the lacquer box that you added - interesting shape!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:04, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!


Thank you so much for creating amazing articles and guiding me through so many of them. Big hug for you! :D

 RexRowan  Talk  20:11, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:43, 29 August 2012 (UTC)Thanks, that's nice of you. You've given me so many wiki-thanks, though, I know you appreciate my help - even when I just dive right in. Your thanks is good enough for me. I have sent you some when you've done a spectacular job and because I know you like them.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:43, 29 August 2012 (UTC)