User:MickWest/scratch

Origins of Biblical scientific foreknowledge

Prior to the publication of De Revolutionibus Orbium Coelestium by Nicolaus Copernicus in 1543 there were few challenges to the Bible on scientific grounds in the western world. The Bible was generally accepted as a literal representation of history and reality, and the existence of any "scientific" truths in the Bible would have been unsurprising. The eventual reversal of the long held church dogma of the Geocentric model heralded the start of the scientific revolution and the birth of empiricism. Further challenges to the scientific authority of the Bible came in the 18th century as scientists began to give ever increasing estimates for the age of the earth based on their observations of geology, and later astronomy. This materialistic view of the world continued in 1859 with the publication of The Origin of Species by Charles Darwin, espousing a scientific theory which removed the traditional Christian God from the creation of mankind.

Many people did not accept this new world view when it was first proposed, many still do not. A significant number of Christians, especially in the USA, doubt the theory of evolution. Many hold that the bible contains no mistakes at all, as exemplified by biblical inerrantists and young earth creationists who work to reconcile science and the Bible (see Creation science). Since they find what they consider to be descriptions in the Bible that tally with modern science, and modern science was not available at the time of the writing of the Bible, then some conclude the Bible contains scientific foreknowledge.

In the first half of the 20th century George McCready Price published several books and papers supporting Biblical inerrancy in science (particularly geology and evolution). But the father of the modern creationist movement and Biblical scientific foreknowledge is considered to be Henry M. Morris, who in 1951 published Science and the Bible based on the work of Price. The first chapter Science and the Bible dealt with Biblical scientific foreknowledge and set forth many of the arguments that are still in use by proponents today.

Jehovah's Witnesses

from [1]

Biblical archaeology confirms much of the Bible's historical accuracy. True science harmonizes with the Bible. The following facts were in the Bible long before they were discovered by secular scholars: the order of stages through which the earth passed in its development, that the earth is round, that it hangs in space on nothing, and that birds migrate.—Genesis, chapter 1; Isaiah 40:22; Job 26:7; Jeremiah 8:7.

Charles Woodruff Shields

Charles Woodruff Shields (1825-1904) a "professor of the harmony of science and revealed religion" at the College of New Jersey (Later Rinceton University). Published "Philosphia Ultima"

George Frederick Wright

George Frederick Wright (b 1838) held a specially created professorship of the harmony of science and revelation at Oberlin. Traveled the world in search of scientific evidence that would "reestablish confidence in the historical statements of the Old Testament". Published "Scientific Confirmations of Old Testament History" in 1906. Mostly focused on the scientific basis for historical events, such as the parting of the red sea. Later in life became increasingly anti-evolution, but still claimed some belief in it, rather confusingly.

Harry Rimmer

Harry Rimmer (1890 - 1952) was president of the "Science Research bureau", mostly focussed on Evolution. Published "Harmony of Science and Scripture" (1936), which covered (amongst other things) the "Longest Day", and a modern "Jonah" (man eaten by whale/shark). Both these accounts have largely been discredited as being based on very unreliable sources.

"The Harmony of Science and Scripture" has been published in at least 13 editions between approx 1936 and 1966. There was a 21st printing in Jan 1970. A 3rd edition was listed as 1937.

Bernard Ramm

Bernard Ramm, A professor at Biola University, and then at American Baptist Seminary of the West, wrote The Christian View of Science and Scripture - basically an anti-bsf position from a christian perspective.

Quote from amazon.com review:

"Reaction to this book was evidently the impetus for the writings of Henry Morris, who shortly thereafter published his first major works on so-called "scientific creationism". Thus, it may have been the opening volley in the current "war", but as Ramm points out, the debate goes back to Augustine's time."

From ApologeticsPress.org:

On the other hand, there are those who contend that there are virtually no examples of real scientific foreknowledge in the sacred writings (Ramm, 1954; England, 1983, pp. 144-145). Bernard Ramm even has gone so far as to state that “the Spirit of God did not convey the inner constitution of things to the authors of the Bible, but...the infallibly inspired theological truth is conveyed in the cultural terms of the cultural period of the writer” (p. 86).

(The above written by Bert Thompson, who geerally argues that there IS BSF, but the case is often hurt by those who argue weak cases of it).

Bert Thompson

Bert Thompson is a current BSF proponent, I think this is a list of his claims from this book "Christian Evidences".

BSF in Morris

Page. Verse. Foreknowledge

p11-12. Jeremiah 33:22, Genesis 22:17. That there are uncountable billions of stars
p12. 1 Corinthians 15:41. That stars differ from each other
p12-13. Psalm 19:6. Relative motion of the earth
p14. Isaiah 40:22, Proverbs 8:27. The earth is round.
p14. Job 26:7. Gravity
p14-15. Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, Job 36:27-29. The water cycle
p15-16. Leviticus 17:11. The circulation of blood.
p16-17. James 1:!5, Hebrews 9:22. Blood infection? (no clear if it's a scientific claim)
p17-18. Hebrews 4:3, Genesis 2:1-2. The law of conservation of energy. (1st law of thermodynamics)
p18. Hebrews 1:3. Either the 1st or second law. usage unclear
p18-19. Psalm 102:25-27, Romans 8:20-2. Entropy/3rd law of thermodynamics.
p20. Hebrews 1:1-3. Mass/Energy equivalence, nuclear power.
p20-21. Hebrews 11:3. Matter is composed of energy.
p21-25. No ref. The holy trinity reflects the three dimension of space.
p25-27 . Evidence for miracle.
p27-28. Jonah and the whale.
p28-32. Missing/long day.

Primary sources of BSF

William Harvey was an early proponent of BSF, and the source of one of Morris's ideas. Harvey discovered the circulation of blood, publishing De mortu cordis in 1628. "He supported this claim in On Generation by stating "the life, therefore, resides in the blood (as we are informed in our sacred writing)," referring to an Old Testement passage (Leviticus 17:11 and 14)" - (source: The History of Science and Religion in the Western Tradition, Gary B. Ferngren, page 470). That's a definite source of that particular BSF idea - the guy who discovered it. I wonder how many other scientists also quickly reconciled their discoveries with Bible verse. That could be the source of a large number of the ideas that found their way to Morris.. MickWest 01:06, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

The interpretation of passages of Job as showing Copernican motion was first posited by Spanish Thelogain Diego de Zuñiga (1536-97) (ibid, p337)

Jonah and the whale story is covered extensivly by Morris (1951), here is a review of the historical literature regarding the scientific evidence for this. Debatable as to if anything claims foreknowledge here or in Morris (regarding the whale).

Ref

Gerald Massey, Ancient Egypt the Light of the World, Part 1 , "Egyptian wisdom and the Hebrew genesis; The Egyptian wisdom in other Jewish writings. Vol. II; The ark, the deluge, and the world's great year; The exodus from Egypt and the desert of Amenta, The seed of Ysiraal, The title of Pharaoh; Egyptian wisdom in the revelation of John the Divine; The Jesus-Legend traced in Egypt for ten thousand years, Child-Horus, The Jesus-Legend in Rome, The Egypto-Gnostic Jesus, Double Horus, or Jesus and the Christ, The mysteries and miracles, Jesus in the Mount, Sut and Horus as historic characters in the Canonical Gospels, The group in Bethany, The founders of the Kingdom, The Last Supper: the Crucifixion and the Resurrection, The resurrection from Amenta, The sayings of Jesus. Gerald Massey was a celebrated poet and served as the model for George Eliot's famous novel, Felix Holt the Radical."

Messod Sabbah Secrets of the Exodus: The Egyptian Origins of the Hebrew People - This fascinating reference fuels the passionate debate about the biblical Exodus with a provocative thesis: Not only was Moses an Egyptian but so were the Hebrew people who followed him to Canaan. Through linguistic, philologic, and religious explorations, the authors prove that the "Chosen People" were not slaves from a foreign country but high-ranking Egyptian priests and the adherents of the monotheist pharaoh Akhenaton. During a counterrevolution against monotheism, his followers were forced to move to the Egyptian province of Canaan. Secrets of the Exodus is a controversial, thought-provoking guide guaranteed to shake many beliefs both in the Jewish and Christian communities.

Jan Assman Moses the Egyptian: The Memory of Egypt in Western Monotheism - To account for the complexities of the foundational event in the establishment of monotheism, Moses the Egyptian goes back to the short-lived monotheistic revolution of the Egyptian king Akhenaten (1360-1340 B.C.E.). Assmann traces the monotheism of Moses to this source, and then shows how Moses' followers denied the Egyptians any part in the origin of their beliefs and condemned them as polytheistic idolators. Thus began the cycle in which every "counter-religion," by establishing itself as truth, denounced all others as false. Assmann reconstructs this cycle as a pattern of historical abuse, and tracks its permutations from ancient sources, including the Bible, through Renaissance debates over the basis of religion to Sigmund Freud's Moses and Monotheism.

Transmission of Egyptian Medical Knowledge

Medicine in the days of the pharaohs, pp185-186, Bruno Halioua, Bernard Ziskind (translated y M.B. DeBevoise).

The prolonged stay of the Hebrews in Egypt during the late second millennium B.C. left is mark not only on their daily way of life and their vocabulary but also on their medicine. There are many points of similarity between the five Mosaic books of the Pentateuch and the pharaonic medical papyri, particularly with regard to obstetric techniques, circumcision, and the prevention of epidemics. Thus, for example, Exodus 1:15-16 mentions Egyptian women giving birth in a squatting position with the feet placed on two bricks: "Then the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives ... 'when you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the birthstool.'" The Pentateuch is generally thought to have been written in the eighth and ninth centuries B.C., but its origins may in fact go back to the period of Hebrew captivity in Egypt. It is at least arguable that the Hebrews had a comprehensive knowledge of Egyptian medical practice, even if Egypt was not one of the principal sources—some scholars have claimed the principal source—of the books of wisdom of Israel. Certainly remarkable coincidences can be observed in the domain of medicine, not least with regard to circumcision and mortuary customs. Thus it is said in the Bible that Zipporah, the wife of Moses, "cut off her son's foreskin" (Exodus 4:25). Jacob himself was embalmed (Genesis 50:2-3), and the mourning lasted for seventy days, which is to say thirty days longer than the time required for the natron to dry out the body ("forty days were required for it, for so many are required for embalming"). One notes, too, that a remedy for a disease of the eyes mentioned in one of the apocryphal books of the Bible, the Book of Tobit (6:4-12)— an ointment of bile—is strikingly like ones found in the Ebers papyrus (Ebers 347, 360). Similar names are given to certain ailments as well: the secfcepew-disease of the skin26 is called schechin in Hebrew, and the Egyptian word for vomiting, qua (or qas) in the Kahun papyrus (192), recalls the biblical qu'ah. With the fall of the kingdom of Judah a number of Hebrew settlements were established along the Nile, for example at Elephantine in the sixth century B.C., but it is probable that the sizable Jewish community in Alexandria during the Ptolemaic Period, which included many physicians, played the leading role in the transmission of Egyptian medical knowledge.

Early Mentions of BSF on the internet

1. barnejd Nov 11 1992, 10:54 am [2]

8) The Bible's Scientific Foreknowledge - One of the areas I personally find fascinating. Being pre-scientific, it should attribute the workings of nature to colorful myths and be woefully inaccurate - if it was written by man. In the 19th century, Herbert Spencer first announced the 5 fundamental facts of science; yet the Bible covered all 5 in the first 2 verses: "In the beginning [time - jdb] God created the heavens [space] and the earth [matter]. And the spirit of God moved [force] upon the face of the waters [motion]." The Bible said the earth was round (Is 40:22, Prov 8:27, Lk 17:34-36). Not too long ago, great minds were convinced the earth was held up by Atlas or something like him; read Job 26:7 to hear what the Bible claimed. Moses knew about a plurality of seas, all with one common bed (Gen 1:9-10). Solomon knew about the rain/evaporation cycle (Eccl 1:7), as did Amos and Job (Amos 9:6; Job 36:27-28). After read-ing Psalm 8:8, Matthew F. Henry charted the sea currents which are still recognized today. Until recently, doctors had no idea how that blood contained, in essence, the life of man, but the Bible did (Lev 17:11, 14). Scientists cannot distinguish between the blood of races of people, just like God said in Acts 17:26.

1. Mark Wuest Jun 23 1993, 2:18 am [3]

Oops, I wasn't clear enough. If someone uses Isaiah 40:22 to prove that Isaiah had "scientific foreknowledge" about the shape of the earth, they are going to have problems with the shape he thinks it has just a few verses later.

Current Wikipedia BSF claims

Leviticus 11:1-47. Levitical diet
Leviticus 13:45-56: Isolation of infected people
Numbers 19:11-9: Washing after handling a dead person
Deuteronomy 23:12-13: Buring excrement
Psalm 51:7: Washing with antiseptic plant (purge me with hyssop)
(the above) - general advance of OT over Egyptian state of the art.
Leviticus 7:23 - Heart disease (eat no fat)
Genesis 17:12 - 8th day circumcision.
Exodus 20:8-10 - sabbath day of rest
Leviticus 15:13 - washing after "discharge"
Macht study, et al (re: Lev 11) - toxicity of kosher food, pork
Genesis 1:30 - Vegetarian lion.
Nahum 2:12 - Lions strangle
Leviticus 14:39-48 - Toxic mold remediation
Jonah 2:5-6 - Mountains in the sea
Corinthians 15:41 - Stars differ

Useful WikiPages

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