User talk:Elkman/Archive17

Archives

Thank-you notes for RFAs have been archived here. August 6, 2005 - May 25, 2006 May 25, 2006 - July 23, 2006 July 24, 2006 July 24, 2006 - September 1, 2006 September 1, 2006 - December 24, 2006 December 31, 2006 - April 28, 2007 April 12, 2007 - September 12, 2007 September 11, 2007 - December 5, 2007 December 6, 2007 - March 23, 2008 March 24, 2008 - July 1, 2008 June 27, 2008 - November 4, 2008 November 5, 2008 - February 11, 2009 April 1, 2009 February 17, 2009 - June 1, 2009 June 2, 2009 - November 4, 2009 November 8, 2009 - March 8, 2010

Hi. This is my talk page. If you ask a question here, you're most likely to get a response here, so you might want to put this page on your watchlist.

Vacation?

Just curious, are you back from vacation? Nyttend (talk) 02:12, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm back, but not inclined to do any real editing. There are a number of things about Wikipedia that are really irritating the hell out of me these days, and I don't see any point in contributing content. I figure that someone else can do the work that I'd normally be doing. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 04:17, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay, just curious, since you still have the wikibreak template up. Nyttend (talk) 05:31, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Do you know if the NRIS database has been updated since last spring? Thanks. Nyttend (talk) 03:33, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Favor

Sorry, but I think that Wikipolicy allows for blocks to help people stay away from Wikipedia (if I'm wrong, please point me to the policy), and I definitely can punish you for anything you did here because I think you deserve punishment. --Orlady (talk) 04:10, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Office politics

Elkman:

You are too valuable to the NRHP project to be taking extended leaves of absence, or asking to be blocked. And if you think "someone else" can easily do the work you normally do for this project, you're kidding yourself. The drama created by the quasi-stub faction is momentary, but the project's articles will be long-lasting, valuable sources of information. Think of the 146 people who have viewed the Gideon H. Pond House article this month, or the 190 who have viewed the Failing Office Building article. Bms4880 (talk) 21:54, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not taking the infobox generator down, if that's what you're asking about. As far as my article contributions go, the 336 people who read those articles are unimportant in comparison to at least one person who thinks I have nothing good to contribute to Wikipedia, any other volunteer projects, or society in general. Let someone with a good editing record create that article about the railroad depot in Granite Falls, Minnesota. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 00:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

FWIW, though you'd probably term me part of the "quasi-stub faction", I've never had anything but tremendous respect for your article contributions. Indeed, though I see a place in Wikipedia for stubs (upon which I'll happily agree to disagree with you), your articles are what I aspire to, though I currently don't have the time or patience to execute that kind of work. I can't imagine who could possibly feel you have nothing good to contribute anywhere, and I've never heard anyone say such a ridiculous thing. Lvklock (talk) 20:47, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

As another of the "qausi-stub faction" I second Lvklock's comments and believe I coudn't create any form of worthy article without your continued contributions.--Pubdog (talk) 21:02, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Man, I get distracted by off-line things for a few months only to come back to a Wikipedia without your generator available. That's a damned shame. I really liked it and it was very useful. It's too bad there are some very bad ideas that tend to float around on Wikipedia that only win because others yell loudly. --Bobak (talk) 16:06, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

• I just wanted to stop by and say "Thank You" for creating the "Elkman Tool" (as it was introduced to me, by User:Pubdog. I've used it a number of times, and I think it's the best thing since antibiotics.--GrapedApe (talk) 02:20, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Phoenix Theater/Old Petaluma Opera House

Hi Elkman ... way back in January 2008 (with this edit), you determined that The Phoenix Theater and the Old Petaluma Opera House were the same building. But I don't think that's correct. I was in Petaluma last Monday taking photos of NRHP listings and the building at 147-149 Kentucky St. (the address in the NRIS database for the Old Petaluma Opera House) is clearly not the same building as the Phoenix Theater (which is at 201 Washington St. ... around the corner and a block to the west). The building at 147-149 Kentucky has an 1870 date on it which corresponds to what's in the NRIS database. The Phoenix Theater article says that building dates to 1896. Before I remove the NRHP references from the Phoenix Theater article and also the redirect in the Sonoma County NRHP list article, I wanted to run this by you first. I know this is two and a half years after the fact, but can you explain your edit? Thanks. --sanfranman59 (talk) 07:44, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I may have been making a stupid guess. I'm not sure what my intention was. Feel free to correct it, especially since you've been there and I haven't. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 00:58, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Generator modification request

Could you make a minor change to the infobox generator? Properties that are listed on the 1st through the 9th of the month display a zero in their listing date, e.g. "September 05, 1997" for the original version of St. Paul AME Church (Urbana, Ohio). Would you be able/willing to change the coding so that it drops the zero in this case? Nyttend (talk) 13:52, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Michael Shmerling page?

G day mate, I'm just wondering why you deleted the bio page of Michael Shmerling back in 2008? I'm Michael and was hoping that page would help with my career. As silly as it sounds, was hoping to have that up as a bio so when applying for or being researched for jobs in my field. Its funny cause places I've applied for have actually researched me first. It is of importance, so if possible could you undelete it?

Cheers Michael —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shmaza (talk • contribs) 15:02, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

• I'm no longer an admin, having lost admin privileges nearly a year and a half ago. Maybe it was for the best, all things considered. I don't remember why I deleted the page, and since I'm no longer an admin, I can't undelete it. You should probably ask another admin about this. Sorry. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 15:21, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Come to think of it, maybe it's better off for the encyclopedia that I'm not even editing Wikipedia very much any more. It's not like the encyclopedia has come to a halt without me. The missing articles about obscure houses and railroad depots on the National Register of Historic Places in outstate Minnesota aren't of any real interest to anyone anyway. Plus, I've caused far more damage to the encyclopedia in arguments and debates as compared to the rest of my article contributions. But, at least I spent a month sculpting, casting, and painting a latex mask that looked completely like shit and had the proportions wrong. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 15:54, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Meetup

Hello, Elkman. Discussion of a 2010 Minnesota Wikipedia Meetup has begun. Please see the talk page. Jonathunder (talk) 23:15, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

MPS study links in NRHP infoboxes

Hi Elkman -- If/when you have a chance, it would be nice if you could update your NRHP infobox generator as regards URLs of MPS documents. The MPS mentions in the infobox generator are very helpful, but the URLs have all changed. I noticed a bot run which updated all the existing MPS urls a while back, perhaps a month ago. I didn't go see who requested/ran the bot. But in new uses of the infobox the URLs come in with the old URLs which don't work. I myself know to update them, but it would be a convenience for others if this could be fixed.

For example, for the Barnes-Frost House the URL which comes in is:

  | mpsub = [http://www.nr.nps.gov/multiples/64000086.pdf Colonial Houses of Southington TR]

which needs to be changed to:

| mpsub = [http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Text/64000086.pdf Colonial Houses of Southington TR]

As a further possible enhancement, i wonder if you might consider choosing to compose a draft MPS inline reference to include in the body of a new NRHP article, as in:

Draft reference to the [[Multiple Property Study]] document (please revise to include author and date from the document, usually in its section 11, and otherwise fully develop):<ref name=MPS>{{cite web|url=http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Text/64000086.pdf |title=National Register of Historic Places:  Colonial Houses of Southington TR |author= | date= | publisher=National Park Service}}</ref>

No problem if you choose not. Thanks for considering! --doncram (talk) 15:02, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I'll see if I can get to revising the link eventually. It depends on whether I have time to do this in between my other projects, such as costume props that people have paid me to work on. But in any case, you know as well as I do that I don't have anything positive or worthwhile to contribute to Wikipedia at this point, so why should I bother? Let someone else do the work. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 17:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

If/when you were going to do some updates, another one is to change Category:National Register of Historic Places in Washington to Category:National Register of Historic Places in Washington (U.S. state) in new articles. Apparently the former worked previously, but was CfDed.

Also there are a number of new valid architecture categories based on NRIS architecture categories which could be added, such as Category:Early Commercial architecture, Category:Bungalow/Craftsman architecture, Category:Late 19th and 20th Century Revivals architecture, and Category:Late 19th and Early 20th Century American Movements architecture, that i have been sharing about at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#new NRHP-specific architecture categories where Ebyabe also shared. Some of the newly valid ones now being redirects / covered at Architectural style (National Register of Historic Places).

I bet others would have suggestions/requests, too, if you let others know you might do some updating. Your tools have been tremendously useful to me and to others.

About previous stuff, what I understand mostly is that you have not liked me or others generating minimal stub articles, unless a certain threshold of development or need is met, a threshold that you set differently than i have. I don't want to re-open anything like an argument, but I wonder if you think list-articles i've been working on recently are good or bad. These are about fraternal organization buildings (List of Odd Fellows buildings and others linked in its See also section), and also List of YMCA buildings and List of YWCA buildings. I think they serve a good purpose, broadly, like the NRHP-listed bridge lists do, and I have chosen to develop them and to open stub articles for all their entries up front. I think this rapid development approach has headed off a lot of misunderstandings that woulda been generated if they were shorter lists or had many redlinks. I think i've had a lot more cumulative experience now, good and bad, with dealing with disambiguation- or Masonic- or Connecticut- or other-focused editor groups, and I think that rapidly generating the articles works a lot better, often, than leaving open red-links. It certainly helps in establishing good categories right away, and also I've seen/learned the need for the architectural categories that correspond to these kinds of buildings. Doing all of a certain type, at once, seems beneficial. You can comment or not, but I just thought you might be less miffed about my going ahead with a lot of article generation, if you considered the pretty-good, immediately stable list-articles of these sort that I've been making. Anyhow, hope you are doing well in your other activities. Thanks, --doncram (talk) 22:39, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I haven't even been following the articles you've been creating lately. I haven't been following WP:NRHP lately, at all. I've mostly been hanging out on another forum -- at least until yesterday, when I screwed up there as well. You can create whatever articles and lists you want. I just don't care. I'm not going to waste my time and cause another fiasco by saying anything about the articles and lists you've been writing. Frankly, this encyclopedia is better without my involvement.

As far as updates to the infobox generator, I can probably fix the pdfhost.focus.nps.gov thing and the category for Washington (U.S. state). I'm hesitant to automatically classify something as Category:Late 19th and 20th Century Revivals architecture because I think that's kind of a synthetic classification that the National Register people developed. That was my thought a few months ago when I last looked at auto-categorizing by architecture, anyway. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 00:01, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

That would be great. Also the categories' appropriate treatment is not sorted out yet, it's not clear, there's not a consensus. --doncram (talk) 06:54, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Meetup

In the area? You're invited to the
May 2018 Minnesota User Group Meeting
	Date: 31 October 2010
	Time: noon
	Place: Midtown Exchange Global Market, East Lake Street, Minneapolis, Minnesota 44.9493°N 93.2612°W / 44.9493; -93.2612

Elkman down?

Hey Elkman ... getting problem loading Elkman. Hope you're doing well.--Pubdog (talk) 23:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

My power went out last night because of the massive windstorm in the Midwest. It went out around 5:30 PM, and as of this morning it was still out. Not only is the NRHP infobox generator down, my skate club web site is also down. More importantly to me, my furnace doesn't run when there's no power, so it was really frigging cold in my house this morning. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 13:51, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, it's back up and running now. As soon as I go home, I'll take pictures of the inside of my refrigerator for the article on food spoilage. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 20:37, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

FYI for anyone wondering today, the power went out again after a heavy wet snowfall. The infobox generator is down, and my furnace is out. No thanks to Xcel Energy. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 05:49, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions for next Minnesota meetup?

Hi, Elkman, do you have any suggestions for a next date or place for a Minnesota meetup? I was disappointed to miss last Sunday's meetup once a work meeting coincided with the time announced for the meetup. I would be happy to arrange a meetup soon. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 14:14, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

New meetup

In the area? You're invited to the
May 2018 Minnesota User Group Meeting
	Date: Saturday, 20 November 2010
	Time: 1:00 - 3:30 (click here for full agenda) R.S.V.P. by Nov. 17 for free lunch + parking
	Place: Minnesota History Center 345 Kellogg Blvd, St. Paul, Minnesota 44.95°N 93.1055°W / 44.95; -93.1055

Hey, Elkman, it was good to see you at the meetup yesterday. I hope we'll have more time to get acquainted at the next meetup. See you on the articles. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 23:09, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

NRIS reference revision

Per the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#Please change the standard citation to omit the link and what Dudemanfellabra nicely programmed at Template:NRISref upon my request, could you possibly please now change the standard NRIS reference in the infobox/article generator to provide <ref name=nris>{{NRISref|version=2009a}}</ref>, now? That would provide for specific identification of the current NRIS version, while allowing changes at template to display or not the link to where the NRIS database is downloadable, or to allow formatting or other changes. I think it is ready to go now.

Testing footnote:

Thanks for your participating in the thread already! --doncram (talk) 22:01, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Opinion requested on the use of SHPO sources

As you were at the meet-up at the Minnesota History Center, and an active member of the Minnesota WikiProject, I would like to ask you to please come and share your opinion on the use of certain sources that were found at the State Historic Preservation Office and whether or not they violate WP:RS or WP:OR in how they are being used. The discussion is taking place here. --Bobak (talk) 22:49, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

NRHP places having area of .9 acres, etc.

Hey, glad to see ur comments at wt:NRHP. I have a version of a generator going now, hope it will get better, and that it will be a good complement to what you provide.

As u know i created several new articles for National Register of Historic Places listings in Cass County, North Dakota. As i was doing that, i noticed that my version was putting in ".9 acres" for several articles where the NRHP nom docs only stated that they were on properties of size less than one acre. Then i notice that is documented as a feature of the NRIS data: "< than 1 acre .9, decimal implied" is given as a comment within the SCHEMA.DBF file. So i think it is better to have the NRHP infobox generator put in "area = less than 1 acre (0.40 ha)" rather than "area = .9 acres (0.36 ha)". Perhaps you could make that change, as well as implementing the NRIS reference change (to include <ref name=nris>{{NRISref|version=2009a}}</ref>)?

Thanks for doing both. --doncram (talk) 03:39, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

About the MPS documents, do you have a file providing correspondence between NRIS's multname entries and the refnums for them, which you could possibly send to me? I surmised before that you had built such a correspondence based on table at wp:MPS. But i was never sure whether or not u had just found a correspondence with the NRIS files. I don't see it there, myself. If u have a file and can email it to me, even if it is not perfectly updated, i would be much obliged. If not, no problem. Thanks! --doncram (talk) 22:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

MN SHPO

Thanks for the heads up. I will make sure I am there tomorrow (Friday). See you then! Myotus (talk) 22:39, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

I see you got some good stubs started at SHPO --it's like candyland for this stuff, isn't it? :-) How did you come up with the articles you decided to start? I saw a few are like me: you had the photo and wrote an article for it, while others are spread out. For those did you just dive into random drawers or were you curious about those specifically? --Bobak (talk) 22:40, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I was like a kid in a candy store knowing that my mom was only going to give me five minutes to load up on candy. Well, maybe it wasn't quite like that, but I really had to pick and choose what I was going to do. I picked a few from the Anoka County list (Banfill Tavern (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), Anoka Post Office (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), Jackson Hotel (Anoka, Minnesota) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), and Sparre Barn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)) because I knew that I had taken the photos and I wanted to put in something about those buildings. I also made a list of the properties listed in the National Register as having national significance. A few of these (Ironton Sintering Plant Complex (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), Wilford H. Fawcett House (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), and Isabella Ranger Station (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)) came from that list. I also got the nomination forms for two new entries, the O'Donnell Shoe Company Building, and the Old Federal Building in downtown Minneapolis.

I knew I wouldn't have enough time to write entries for everything I wanted, though, so I made copies of the nomination forms for future entries:

• Hospital, State School for the Feeble Minded, Faribault
• Norway Lutheran Church, St. Paul
• E.T. Archibald House, Dundas
• William J. Mayo House, Rochester
• Mayowood Historic District, Rochester
• Charles P. Noyes Cottage, White Bear Lake
• Bernard H. Pietenpol Workshop and Garage, Forestville Township

And still, that doesn't include everything. I wouldn't mind expanding the Washington County articles some more, for example. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 03:22, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Excellent stuff! Great description of the experience, I know exactly how you felt. I always ran out of time before I could copy anything --if anything I would work on scanning slides of historic/destroyed buildings. I was thinking about that O'Donnell Shoe/Old Federal Post office, but I instead went after the Ramsey building added last year, the Minnesota Building. The O'Donnell Shoe building is currently undergoing pretty heavy renovation, the photo I snapped was from the week before the most recent meet-up at MHS. It's funny you mention the Edward T. Archibald House in Dundas, because I was thinking of doing the nearby Ault Store. Be sure to look up the slides for the Archibald House (or I can when I get their next) because the exterior has been repainted and changed a bit from what I can tell. --Bobak (talk) 06:54, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

archive of old version NRIS and coords files

Hi, i wonder if u might be willing to compose an archive package of the now old version (March 13, 2009 version) NRIS data, including whatever coordinates files your system has used. I've been meaning to stash a full copy of the NRIS database into one of the free internet archives, to address a perceived need in the big past discussions about validity of NRIS as a source (i don't know if u followed this, it was at many places stemming from Masonic-focused editors where opened discussions). It would be nice, and no cost, and legal as the data is public domain, to stash away an archive, which could then be pointed to from wikipedia references to that version of NRIS. I wasn't particularly for or against doing this, but it does seem better in a way to have that documentation nailed down forever that way, and Orlady and some regulars at "wp:Reliable sources" supported having this done. Since the new NRIS is out, it's now or never in terms of documenting the data which your system and many thousands of wikipedia articles has relied upon.

I hadn't yet gotten around to getting any coordinates files to match the NRIS basic database files that i downloaded myself, though, and now i expect all is no longer available from the NPS. I can't fully document, myself, what is the data your system has used. If i get instructions on how this could be uploaded, would you possibly do such an archive uploading? I guess i could do one stash of my own copies of files without coordinates and then let you know how/where u could do a matching stash with coordinates, if you would. So, anyhow, i am hoping you might right now set aside an archive of your complete set of files now, rather than simply overwriting them with the new versions of NRIS database and coordinates. --doncram (talk) 15:40, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Or maybe u just used the UTM coordinates data in the UTMZONEM.DBF file within the 2009 NRIS main download?

Your commenting at wt:NRHP#NRIS coords conversion from UTM would be most welcome.

Merry Xmas, hope u have a good holiday, thanks! --doncram (talk) 21:24, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Question and ask for help.

Hello, Elkman.
I can't tell you how impressed I am with the Elkman NRHP infobox generator. For a long time members of the WikiProject Public art have been looking for a way to get all of the great information from the SOS! Database moved into Wikipedia in a nearly parallel way that you've developed with the NRHP. We've developed the process to make this as easy as possible in a manual way but of course this is time consuming and leads to a certain degree of inaccuracies. We would be eternally grateful if you could help develop a similar tool for public art. Who knows, you might just change the world a bit, too. In exchange, we could concentrate our efforts to document public art in Minnesota, even though this would greatly pain this Hoosier, and my friend who is a total Milwaukeean. --RichardMcCoy (talk) 02:55, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. The way I implemented it for the National Register database was to download a copy of their database (which was in dBase format, but is now in Microsoft Access format), then convert the tables to text and import them to a MySQL database. Then, my PHP scripts query that database and produce the output for the National Register infobox ({{Infobox NRHP}}). If I were to write a similar query tool for the SOS! Database, I'd need to either import their database, or I'd have to find a way to query their database via some sort of web service or XML request, then interpret that data and extract the fields for an infobox. I think their database is running on a Dynix (now Sirsi Corporation) IPAC system, but I really don't have any idea how to download an entire database from one of those systems, or to run automated queries from an external site and get data in an unformatted manner. Do you have any contacts at the Smithsonian who would know the technical answers about how to download their database, or how to write an external query tool? I'd be happy to help out as my time permits, but getting access to the data is the big unknown at this point. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 04:54, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Areas of less than an acre

I just noticed that the generator only provides area figures if they're greater than an acre. Just curious — were the old less-than-an-acre figures erroneous? I don't feel like replacing all of the old area figures if they're correct, but I definitely don't want to leave them in articles if they're wrong. Thanks! Nyttend (talk) 02:01, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject United States

Hello, Elkman/Archive17! WikiProject United States, an outreach effort supporting development of United States related articles in Wikipedia, has recently been restarted after a long period of inactivity. As a user who has shown an interest in United States related topics we wanted to invite you to join us in developing content relating to the United States. If you are interested please add your Username and area of interest to the members page here. Thank you!!!

--Kumioko (talk) 15:43, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Great to see you at the Wikipedia Tenth Anniversary Meet-up

Hi, Elkman,

It was great to see you at the meet-up and to hear your thoughts about editing as we were discussing the questions of the new visitor to the meet-up. I'll learn a lot about Minnesota history, even as a many-generation Minnesotan, as I read more of your contributions. I've just been doing some library searches, and between what I just searched up and what I've already checked out, I'll soon have plenty of new sources to add to the source lists I maintain to share with other wikipedians who edit articles on controversial subjects. If you have any suggestions for those, I'd be glad to hear them. See you on the articles; keep up the good work. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 21:52, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Coney Island of the West

Whew! What a busy few weeks, lots of offline stuff and with Wikipedia I've been catching up on a few buildings I'd meant to take care of (as well as a few projects unrelated to NRHP), but now I wanted to get back to SHPO and see if you'd be interested in collaborating on the Coney Island of the West. I can easily put together a DYK-worthy piece on the site, but I think there's enough information here to make something really nice including dozens of slides, an entire 65+ page, bound research & planning study by an architecture firm for the City of Waconia, lots and lots of old newspaper articles (spanning from at least 80 years), lot maps, letters (including those to MHS, and letters between the City and then-Attorney General Warren Spannaus), original architectural drawings (color sketches that also show the location of old Indian mounds), and simply more information than I've seen in any other file. I think this might be a fun thing to ding around at. I've noticed you can spot a few of the remaining structures (in ruins) on the south side of the island if you look at it using the Bird's Eye view function of Bing Maps. Hope everything's well! --Bobak (talk) 19:34, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Sure, I'd be interested in collaborating on Coney Island of the West. It sounds like you've found a lot of research material already. I went out there yesterday and took a bunch of photos of the ruined buildings. There's one building on the south side of the island that must have been the caretaker's cottage, or perhaps a welcome building for the resort, that still had enough of the interior intact that you could recognize the different rooms. There's also a boat house on the south end with a concrete foundation that's still recognizable. Most of the other buildings on the island have completely collapsed. It's an interesting photo study, and I'm going to put the whole photo set on Flickr. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 15:56, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Here's a link to my photos on Flickr. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 16:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Those look great! You should take a look at the plans of the development at SHPO. I'm heading out of the country for several weeks, but I'll be back in late Feb and be back in contact :-) --Bobak (talk) 05:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC)