User talk:4meter4

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This user is no longer very active on Wikipedia as of August 2011.
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4meter4 has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian,
so I've officially declared today as 4meter4's Day!
For being a great person and awesome Wikipedian,
enjoy being the star of the day, 4meter4!

Signed, Neutralhomer

A record of your Day will always be kept here.

Music barnstar.png The Music Barnstar
For your excellent work in creating articles on Canadian music and musicians, I award you this Music Barnstar. Wear it with pride. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 15:38, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Dyk25CE.svg The 25 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal
Your efforts at D.Y.K. are appreciated and the Encyclopedia is a better place because of you. The Interior (Talk) 18:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


Dolores Wilson[edit]

Thanks for taking the time and effort to work on the Dolores Wilson article I had created, giving the article better structure and balance. The effort is much appreciated. Alansohn (talk) 22:56, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Christiane Kohl[edit]

Thanks for adding! Hermin Esser, Tristan with Isolde Janis Martin (and Brangäne Glenys Linos and the Tonhalle Orchester Zürich, remember), deserves an article, imo. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I added also to the soprano. German titles of operettas sung in German intentionally German, smile. I don't like the word currently, difficult to keep track how long that is valid. I removed one currently (in de-WP) that meant 2004. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Re: Marie Sasse[edit]

Your creation of the stub got me to reading about her. When I realized how much interesting material there was, I decided I'd better get busy... Thanks for starting it! --Robert.Allen (talk) 21:38, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Monika Frimmer[edit]

Do your vast sources produce more on Monika Frimmer's opera roles than the few I happened to watch at the beginning of career? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:54, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Wendy White[edit]

It is only necessary to have a dab page if there are 2 or more articles with the same name. As there is no Wendy White (mezzo-soprano) article the dab page is unnecessary. I will be opening a WP:RM to correct this. Tassedethe (talk) 17:01, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Melissa Hart[edit]

Hi, now that Melissa Hart is a disambig, please remember the WP:FIXDABLINKS policy and help with the link cleanup. Thanks, --JaGatalk 17:05, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

  • Thanks much for the cleanup, 4meter4. --JaGatalk 16:46, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Revival of Wikipedia:WikiProject Music theory[edit]

Hello 4meter4, User:Nrswanson, who redirects to your page, was formerly involved with the Wikipedia:WikiProject Music theory, which I am currently attempting to revive. I hope you will be able to participate in the project. Please visit Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music theory to stay abreast of any developments. Thanks in advance for your continued interest.BassHistory (talk) 11:00, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

The King's Henchman[edit]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I've added a brief Recordings section as there are (or have been) extracts available on LP or CD, although not the full opera. Some are currently available as MP3s at Amazon here (See tracks 14 qnd 15). Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:59, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I'll have to see if I can dig up one of those recordings.4meter4 (talk) 15:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


Hi, I reverted this edit: the category "art journals" is a subcat of "humanities journals", which is a subcat of "Academic journals by subject area". The whole category tree can be seen in that particular category. hope this explains. Happy editing! --Crusio (talk) 16:11, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. However, I find it odd that music journals is a subcat under "Art journals". Now if it were "Arts journals" that would make sense to me.4meter4 (talk) 16:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Good point. I'll change that! --Crusio (talk) 16:26, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
  • You're welcome and thank you. If I might suggest keeping "Art journals" as a subcat of "Arts journals". "Dance journals" could be another subcat of Arts journals.4meter4 (talk) 16:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "Art journals" then being for figurative art (sculptures, paintings)? --Crusio (talk) 16:38, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Exactly. Although I was thinking of it encompassing both graphic and studio arts. But I'm open to suggestions.4meter4 (talk) 16:42, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
  • this is not really my field. Looking at the journals currently in the "Art journals" cat (a bot will move them in a few days to "arts journals"), I see articles on theatre, dance, sculpture, as well as several that seem to cover the field more broadly. Splitting that all off in subcats would make for several rather narrow cats, I feel. Why not keep it all together and split of subcats (like music and art history) if the need arises? --Crusio (talk) 16:58, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Perhaps you have noticed that another editor got rather upset about the change from art journals to arts journals, posting a rather acerbic note on my talk. If you wish, talk with him further about this, I'm going elsewhere as I currently don't have the patience to deal with this kind of stuff. --Crusio (talk) 17:44, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

The 3 kings[edit]

Hi, I noticed your name on DYK and found the nom. Changing of the rules implies that special occasion noms are no longer placed there, but under the date of creation. (I don't like it but that's how it is.) The best way to hold off reviewers is to keep it where it is and move it when you are ready, smile. - I started reviewing yesterday, two articles appeared already, nice feeling, I must say, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:51, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

So it's now under 24 December, I looked and like it, just think that the same reference for the hook should be placed in all 3 articles right after the statement. It's a bit confusing right now. Preview of review, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:06, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
In addition: I would capitalize the three in the hook and link them, Three Kings, as in the opera, and link NBC. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:33, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
Thanks Gerda. I made the appropriate changes per your suggestion.4meter4 (talk) 16:41, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
One more, please. I see the performance ref now, but not a cast ref after the name of the king. One sentence later I see a Google books ref about later performances which tells me nothing, I'm new to this, help, please, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:14, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
Fixed.4meter4 (talk) 03:23, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
Smile, please try again. As long as ref 6 takes me to 12, something needs improvement. I don't doubt the casting, looking at all the sources, but would like to see a convincing ref, online preferred, offline perhaps to back it up (can be the same for all three) right after the line about singing in the premiere. I don't have time to do it myself, smile broader. - btw a have a nom waiting 13 Dec. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:46, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm not comprehending exactly what you are having a problem with.4meter4 (talk) 14:38, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
Trying to be specific: I like Kaspar best, although I would prefer the ref (repeated) one sentence sooner, right after Kaspar, to follow the rules. For Melchior the ref is in the correct position, but is offline. I think it could be the same online ref as for Kaspar. Balthazar is improved since I saw it last, looks like Melchior now. Actually, good enough! - Sorry for being overly picky, it's my mood, I'm about to loose a nom for the first time, because the reviewer is counting expansion chars instead of looking at content. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:44, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
Approved, you probably saw that. The cause of BWV 132 (DYK 10 December) turned positive, now they look for someone independent. Same for Dec 13. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:56, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Both kind of done now. Next 14 Dec. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:11, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

It can be fixed...and a targeted fix...[edit]

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You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Argolin (talk) 08:58, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

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Hello, 4meter4. You have new messages at Argolin's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Argolin (talk) 10:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Düsseldorfer Schauspielhaus[edit]

Thanks for the hint, eventually yes, not now, the week gave me a successful but time-consuming deletion discussion which could have stopped after my first comment (sigh). I nominated the musician for DYK now with two Bach cantatas (smile). I also have another cantata there with singer Joanne Lunn, waiting for a review, composed for 23 January, only the singer needs a review (smile broader), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:49, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I guess I saved Arman also, and I would be more interested in Hans Beirer than the DüSch, or will you take care of him? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:36, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Handel's Rinaldo[edit]

I have decided to take up your suggestion and try to get this article improved and through the system so that it can be TFA on 24th February, to honour the tercentanry of its premiere in London. I have a fair amount of material on the opera itself; what I am most lacking is information relating to recent performances. I have numerous dates since 1973, but almost no review information. If you can locate anything relevant, or can suggest where I might search, that would be very helpful. I am dropping a line to User:Voceditenore who is pretty good at ferretting things out. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. Brianboulton (talk) 23:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Great work with the images. I may remove some of these temporarily, while I assemble the revised text and then make decisions about placement and sizing, so don't be alarmed if some of the pics disappear for a while. Suggestions for any additional images can be listed on the article's talkpage. Brianboulton (talk) 11:57, 29 January 2011 (UTC)


May this be the name of the festival, de:Internationale Händel-Festspiele Göttingen? They don't have an English website/name. I am busy but will try to give it a start, I missed it myself. As Tonhalle (still Townhall). And refs for Andreas Scholl. Tomorrow the Main page will see 4 Bach cantatas, 2 with Grychtolik who was up for deletion, took quite some time to defend him, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:42, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Just realized: wrong festival, what should be the name for de:Händel-Festspiele Halle (Saale) then, "Handel festival on Georg Frideric Handel`s Birthplace Halle an der Saale"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:48, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Started: Handel Festival Halle (Saale). - Rinaldo will be performed at the Rheingau Musik Festival with the Lautten Compagney. - William Waterhouse (bassoonist), well, I would have preferred William Waterhouse (disambiguation), now I will have to think about the links to William Waterhouse outside WP. Or could it still be changed? More important than Figaro's wedding to --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:29, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
The name of the festival Handel Festival Halle was questioned on the DYK nom. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:47, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
... and moved to Handel Festival, Halle, not by me - too many moves I don't particularly like right now, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:26, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
The Handel festival is about to begin tomorrow, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:30, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Oddly named category[edit]

Try asking User:Kudpung about that oddly named category you posted with colleges. He may have some ideas. (Or not!) Student7 (talk) 20:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

William Waterhouse[edit]

Waiting for a response to the question above: Can William Waterhouse be restored to the bassoonist? The article is two years old, there are links to it from outside WP, some I can control, others not. Even within WP there are misleading links to the DAB page now. Other than that, he really deserves to be singled out, Wigmore Hall is preparing a Memorial concert for him, with former Melos Ensemble members playing, among others, music dedicated to him by Jean Francaix and Gordon Jacob. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:46, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm... I really don't see a problem with the current disambiguation page. However, I wouldn't consider myself an expert on WP:DAB policy. I will say, that outside links to wikipedia should have no bearing on the decision made here. The way the dab page is structured should be determinded through wikipedia's disambiguation rules, which I believe it currently does. I'm not sure what you mean with misleading WP links as I made sure all WP articles link to the right one. I suggest that you contact User:Boleyn who is a highly active member of WP:WikiProject Disambiguation and also contributed to the William Waterhouse disambiguation page. Boleyn would be better able to determine if a change is warranted/possible and be able to set things up as they should be. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:22, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
On a side note, thank you for Handel Festival Halle (Saale). Great work!4meter4 (talk) 21:30, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
(Edit conflict: I didn't start referencing the festival yet, please thank me later.) Now to WW again: Before I go to someone else I will try to explain: just look at this Waterhouse website, there are three links to William Waterhouse on one page. I changed two of them to bassoonist, spelling out the DYK statement which is wrong in the archive at present. There are more links on his son's website which I didn't change yet. And I am afraid there may be more links in the world to the WP article William Waterhouse which is now just a DAB. Do you understand? I wish that William Waterhouse was kept unchanged, and the DAB called William Waterhouse (disambiguation) but I said so before, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:44, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I do understand, but what other websites choose to link to externally really shouldn't be a factor in determining what we do here at wikipedia. That would set a bad precedent. Is there another reason why you think this dab page should be changed? Again, I really think User:Boleyn would be a better person to discuss this with. Best.4meter4 (talk) 22:49, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
We at Wikipedia" - who is that? I feel as part of that we. Correct me, but it looks to me like the move was done without a previous discussion, unlike the move of St. Matthew Passion (Bach) to St Matthew Passion which was discussed in Classical music. - Somehow I don't think the DYK archive should be changed, what do you think? - I will contact as you suggested, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes you are a part of that "we", most definitely. But those external webites and their affiliates are not. By basing your decisions/actions here at wikipedia on a connection to those websites you are getting dangerously close to violating WP:Conflict of Interest. Be careful. At the time I moved William Waterhouse I didn't think it would be controvercial, so I just did it under WP:BOLD. You are of course free to bring it up for a public discussion. Best.4meter4 (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Now without discussion I moved the festival which doesn't need the river to be unique, for links you can simply use Handel Festival Halle now. I wonder about a move of Göttingen and established at least a redirect Handel Festival Göttingen. Let's assume I get Howard Arman to DYK quality, would Handel's birthday be "the day"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I agree that the new title is better. I think the Göttingen International Handel Festival title is fine since that is the name used in reviews in English language music journals and magazines like Opera News. Handel's b-day is fine by me for Arman.4meter4 (talk) 16:49, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Project banners[edit]

4meter4, when adding music projects simply adding the {{WikiProject Canada}} to the article's talk page is not sufficient. Please use the music=yes parameter to add the article to Wikipedia:WikiProject Canadian music. Something like {{WikiProject Canada|music=yes}}
or preferably {{WikiProject Canada|class=|importance=|music=yes}}.
Without the music=yes parameter, the article is simply lost in the 2,000 odd unassessed articles [1] as opposed to a much more manageable [2]. I've seen one too many articles where someone from the Canada project comes along rates/assesses the article but does not add music=yes.

FYI, the Canadian music project shares a banner and an assessment scheme with the Canada project. The Canada music project has two parents: the Canada project and the Music project. Please continue to use the Canada banner. I guess it's a little confusing to non-Canucks? Thanks, Argolin (talk) 01:30, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Andreas Scholl[edit]

I am interested in Andreas Scholl, didn't like the ref-tag, so started looking and cleaning up, but find too many details instead of facts. Do you think you could help improving a great (Handel) singer? I heard his Solomon. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:50, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Next question: do you think Utrecht Te Deum and Jubilate would be a title for Handel's works or should it be more formal? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:44, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm time crunched at the moment assisting User:Brianboulton in getting Rinaldo ready for FA review. I'm also hoping to create several Rinaldo related articles before the opera hits the main page this February 24th, the day of the opera's 300th anniversary. Once that has been done, I'll try to improve the Andreas Scholl article. As for the title of the Handel works... I'm not sure what the best solution is. I can see the benefit of discussing the works together in one article. I would suggest asking User:Voceditenore. Best.4meter4 (talk) 01:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. It started in my sandbox, will discuss with others when it's getting a direction. "Together" seems a good idea to me because they were written for one occasion, published in one volume and get performed together. I couldn't say frequently because I didn't find many performances in WP. I wonder why, excellent "Italian" music, much more interesting than the Dettinger D-major fanfares. Is Feb 24 the final date for Rinaldo? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:28, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Do you happen to know what might be meant by "grand martial panegyric" in Dettingen Te Deum?


Now I was bold and started Utrecht Te Deum and Jubilate, but will wait to link to it until name and content are settled more, smile, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:48, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Linked now. Came across Händel-Gesellschaft, funny name, the picture shows correctly Deutsche Händelgesellschaft, I installed a redirect, but the funny name links to almost all the Handel pages but Solomon. If German, it should be correct German, or not? - In case you have 5 extra minutes, could you just have a look at Andreas Scholl, where I wrote "Early performances", and see if the ref tag might be removed. I would like to include him in the Handel celebrations, though I don't know yet how, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Rinaldo grade[edit]

I see you have awarded Rinaldo an "A" grading. That's nice, but I think the award of an A officially depends on a review process within the Opera project. I have no knowledge of such reviews ever happening within the project, but that is technically the case. So I have reduced it to a B, which hopefully will not prevail for very long. Brianboulton (talk) 23:04, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Rinaldo has now gone to FAC. At the moment TFA for 24 February is still open, but Rinaldo won't get there on points - a music article is scheduled for 12 February. However, we can only hope the FAC goes well and that Raul keeps things open a little longer. I have mentioned your sterling work on behalf of this article in the nom statement. Your efforts are much appreciated - lets hope we get the date.

Thank You![edit]

Treble Clef Barnstar.png The Featured Sound Main Page Proposal Voter Barnstar
I was truly humbled by the overwhelming community support for the recent proposal to place featured sounds on the main page. The proposal closed on Tuesday with 57 people in support and only 2 in opposition.

It should take a few weeks for everything to get coded and tested, and once that is done the community will be presented with a mock up to assess on aesthetic appeal.

Finally, I invite all of you to participate in the featured sounds process itself. Whether you're a performer, an uploader, or just come across a sound file you find top quality, and that meets the featured sound criteria, you can nominate it at Wikipedia:Featured sound candidates. Featured sounds is also looking for people to help assess candidates (also at Wikipedia:Featured sound candidates.)

Thanks again for such a strong showing of support, and I hope to see you at featured sounds in the future.
Sven Manguard Wha?
Adam Cuerden (talk)
(X! · talk)


Hello 4meter4, You've always been very helpful. I just want to thank you for that! Robert

Opera DYK[edit]

Thanks for letting me know that there is an archive with a last entry of 2009. I miss in that set-up a date for the DYK. Perhaps we can follow the example of DYK Germany and start a new approach for 2011 (or 2010, all missing, some quite interesting)? (I confess that I didn't even realize the existence of the portal until just now.) I also though some hooks should be changed for Opera, such as Fritz Lehmann rather about a first modern Tolomeo than Bach. What do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:11, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Adding to the archive, please link hooks to their date (example: sopranos) and get them in chronological order, latest on top. (May be you did, but without I date I can't see.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:09, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK prep areas[edit]

Why did you make so many changes to the prep areas? I can't see any beneficial difference between what I had done and the current state of things. I spent a lot of time promoting articles and organizing them in what I believed were well balanced groups. You totally re-did most of them; some of which I think are less well organized than previously. If this is what helping out at DYK is like than I'm simply not going to do it anymore. It's a waist of my time if what I do is going to be completely changed. Sorry if I sound upset at you, but I am kind of miffed. If what I had done was somehow wrong, I appologize in advance. Best.4meter4 (talk) 08:59, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your msg, 4meter4. I am disappointed that my editing has caused such distress and anger to you, but I'm glad that you've let me know about it. Maybe I could explain why I did what I did. As you wrote, I made many changes to the DYK prep areas yesterday. I don't remember the how and why of everything I did, but here are a few things I do remember:
  • This set of hooks on P3 seemed a bit too Euro-centric. And then the last hook was problematic, per this post on WT:DYK. So I took out one Euro-hook and the problematic last hook, and then completed the set with more non-Euro hooks from T:TDYK. The revised set is currently on MainPage. The removed hooks went to a prep area slated for a later update to allow time for discussion on talk. I was buying time, so to speak.
  • This set on P4, if moved on queue as it was, was slated to appear on MainPage today. The lead hook is too similar to the TFA today. Putting two British battleships on MainPage at the same time next to each other seemed a bad idea. So I built a new set of hooks in P3 (already on my screen and empty) to be used on MainPage before this set, pushing the battleship DYK to tomorrow (UTC) instead. I started the new set on P3 with a few hooks already on P4 because they were already screened by someone (which turned out to be you) and therefore good to go, and I needed space to slot in the aforementioned problematic hook, effectively buying another 6 hours of time for discussion on WT:DYK.
  • This and this were done to even out the space to take up on MainPage, per previews. Both articles are US-bios. The difference is only one line. I must concede that these were minor cosmetic changes. But it's better to be consistent, and not inconvenience admins working on other sections on MainPage to adjust for left-right balance.
  • This set on P2, incomplete and not been edited for an hour, began with 4 consecutive Euro hooks -- okay, the lead hook counted as half, but still that makes 3-and-a-half consecutive Euro hooks -- and decided to re-order them as I took out the aforementioned problematic hook. I realized that there were no building-related hooks. We seem to have a small backlog of hooks on buildings in Europe, mostly UK churches, these days. I didn't count, but as I scrolled up and down on T:TDYK, they seemed to be growing in numbers. So I ended up removing a couple of Euro-hook along with the problematic hook, making room for a hook about a Euro-building coming in from T:TDYK. I proceeded to complete this set on P2 with some non-Euro hooks for geo-balance. This set was on MainPage a few hours ago.
I hope you now understand what was going on on my mind. I wasn't deliberately breaking up "your" sets. And I want well-balanced hook sets, too. Just that this is a wiki, when I see something that needs to be done, I edit accordingly, unless there is an {{in use}} tag. Also, I do move things around in the prep areas every now and then. There are hooks that I really dislike and I would not want to be the admin who put them on queue, but that's another story.... Anyway, please don't be miffed. Keep up your good work at DYK and in Wikipedia. Happy editing. Cheers! --PFHLai (talk) 09:19, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Mechanics' Hall (Montreal)[edit]

Hi there - you have confused me. You created an article about a concert facility in Toronto, but it's named Mechanics' Hall (Montreal). Is there a reason for mentioning Montreal in the title, or was it a slip of the keyboard? PKT(alk) 15:42, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Well said[edit]

Just a note -- I thought your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Black Golden Globe Award winners and nominees were quite thoughtfully presented. Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 12:24, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. Great work at referencing the article. It looks like the article will be kept now. :-)4meter4 (talk) 08:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Rinaldo (opera) talkpage archive[edit]

I posted a query at Talk:Rinaldo (opera) that you might have information on. Thanks. —  AjaxSmack  02:16, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Jules Delsart[edit]

Thanks for improving! I wonder about the chronologigal order a bit, first 1891, then 1881? Probably you will now also establish the missing Requiem cellist (smile)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:33, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations to DYK #25! I add to the Opera DYK one a day, if you want to speed yours up, do it yourself, please. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:43, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK The Monument of Matrones - help needed[edit]

Hi 4meter4. The article's creator had asked in the nom that this be held over until March 8th, International Women's Day. But I see it's been moved to the prep area already. Any chance this could be moved to the "holding pen" instead. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 17:43, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Price's Talk page[edit]

Based on your apparently strong conviction that other editors' comments shouldn't be changed, I've restored the Talk page to what it was before the IP's change to another IP's comment. That, of course, also predates my removal of the silly section itself. That would be in keeping with no one - neither the IP nor I - can change anyone's comments. I don't agree with you (you probably guessed that :-) ), but I'm sticking to the letter of your law by my restoration.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Nina (Dalayrac) stub plus at least 6 other reversions[edit]

See here --Kleinzach 11:04, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

As you've now agreed this is not a stub, can you please revert your edits to the other pages: Amadis (Lully), Bellérophon, Charles VI (opera), Didon (Desmarets), Le devin du village, Thésée, Cinq-Mars (opera)? --Kleinzach 03:39, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Raymond Ericson[edit]

I was pleased to see and read the article you created on Raymond Ericson. Thanks! --Robert.Allen (talk) 00:28, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

problem with reformatting of Alfred bibliography[edit]

Thanks for your welcoming message.

However, I'm not happy with your reformatting of the entry for the Urtext edition of Alfred. Being Austrian, I'm admittedly not an expert on English bibliography entries, but now it looks as if Scott, Stainer & Bell are the authors, and this is wrong! The author is Arne, Scott is the editor, and Stainer & Bell is the publisher. Please fix this, in particular, please restore the `editor' tag and the formatting – I really dislike plain doublequotes which are so wrong from a typographical point of view. Since I'm not sure whether a robot did the reformatting, I won't do it by myself right now Lemzwerg (talk) 08:56, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I tried to solve the problem by using one of wikipedia's citation templates: Template:Cite encyclopedia. I hope this solves the problem (although I am not too happy with where the year is placed). If opera is of particular interest to you, you might consider joining WP:WikiProject Opera. Best.4meter4 (talk) 09:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Much better, thanks. What about adding the `editor' keyword, and writing Alfred instead of "Alfred"? -- Lemzwerg (talk) 20:07, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Jens-Daniel Herzog[edit]

Do I have time? May it be short? I have the feeling that wrote a red link for him, but he is not on top of my list. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

started, please go over theater terms like Oberspielleiter, + much more could be added, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:33, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
If you feel like adding please do it soon, he is already approved for DYK, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:32, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Q6, tomorrow morning, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:54, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Knife collecting[edit]

Hi, I added the ref to the close of that sentence, even though it was sourcing the whole paragraph. No problem, I kind of prefer it that way anyway. (don't know why). I reworded it to match the text...although I personally have never seen a Bowie go for higher than $200K.;) If you're interested google "Buster Warenski King Tut Knife". Not a Bowie, but a real High Art Example.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 00:54, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Done!--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 01:36, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

The encyclopedia anyone can edit[edit]

Sigh ;-) I see you're working on Louise Homer. Very interesting lady, with quite definite views about a woman's role in the home. Give a shout if you need me to look for images. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

DYK Mary Hynes (politician)[edit]

We last crossed paths on the Cornell literary society issue. Since that time, I have started to do some DYK nominations. I see that you review a bunch of DYKs. Could you possibly take a look at Mary Hynes. I am willing to do what I can to fix things, but I think that people are bypassing the nomination because they assume that it has already been handled. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 23:04, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Lerner article[edit]

I've asked people at WP:BLPN to keep an eye on it, I'm not convinced there yet there is a sock problem, do you see any similar edits? Please reply at my talk page. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 06:30, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Joseph Lerner[edit]

Thank you Doughweller and 4meter4 for keeping an eye on Lerner's bio. If you look at my talk page you would learn that I am a new contributor with not much experience. Furthermore, each time that I have made a correction to this specific article I have described the nature of the change in my talk page. If you refer to my talk page and see my last edit of Lerner's bio, you would precisely see that I have removed a piece of information that I thought it had a promotional nature. At the same time, I noticed that some of the stubs are removed from Lerner's bio "North American composer" and "Poli-bio-stub". Lerner is a Canadian composer that is fact. Therefore, he is a North American composer. Lerner's bio also falls into the "Poli-bio-stub", which is a fact as well. I am going to put the stubs back. If you decide to remove them then I respect your choices. My question is: if there are enough reasons that we so meticulously need to monitor this specific bio and spend time and energy on it, then why bother. Why not just put it for deletion and get rid of it. (Watcherpost (talk) 08:16, 12 March 2011 (UTC))

Barry Fleming[edit]

I was going to get that page created. Glad to see you did. TCO (talk) 17:14, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#Smart_Cover_DYK_removed[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#Smart_Cover_DYK_removed. Mono (talk) 21:22, 13 March 2011 (UTC) (Using {{pls}})

Do not refactor my comments[edit]

Do not refactor my comments to imply that my response to BrownHairedGirl was a response to you. 28bytes (talk) 17:57, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I believe the current revision accurately reflects the order of the comments. I seem to have put you on the defensive with either the AfD nomination itself, or a comment therein, so I apologize for that. I've seen you around, mostly at DYK, doing good work – hopefully our next interaction will be more positive. Best, 28bytes (talk) 18:26, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Glad to hear it. No hard feelings here either. Best, 28bytes (talk) 18:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Nixon in China[edit]

Enjoy your vacation! When you're back, perhaps you'd take a look at Wikipedia:Peer review/Nixon in China (opera)/archive1, where any comments would be most welcome. Brianboulton (talk) 11:20, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your help at the peer review. The review has now closed; you may be interested to know that the article has now been nominated at WP:FAC. Brianboulton (talk) 16:22, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Elisa Orlandi[edit]

Hello 4meter4, I have come across the article about Elisa Orlandi which was written by User:Singingdaisies, who redirects to your page. I would ask you if you could check your sources about Orlandi’s alleged performance of I puritani in Palermo during the 1831-1832 season “in the presence of the composer”. This whole note cannot be correct as the opera was premièred in Paris in 1835 and Bellini died 8 months later without having any chance of going back to Italy in the meanwhile. Excuse my imperfect English and thank you very much for your continuous expanding and improving Wikipedia: I was wondering who had been the first performer of the role of Jane Seymour and whether she was actually a mezzo-soprano, and, only thanks to your work (as in this case as in many others), I could find some information about the matter. Cheers. --Jeanambr (talk) 22:09, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I have removed the inaccuracy myself. Cheers. --Jeanambr (talk) 15:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Theatre Project collaboration[edit]

Wiesbaden Wuppertal[edit]

Thanks for the compliment. Wuppertal yes, but not right now, I'll put it on my list, need the Tanztheater Pina Bausch anyway. IMF is still not long enough for DYK, sigh, working on it. I would like to write at least a stub on Lolita (opera), or will you, smile? (The reviewer doesn't like mentioning the novel in the hook, and is right, to distant from the topics.) Do you know which Warsaw opera did the 1962 performance? Emma Pearson also worth an article (I think, but not the Australian expert whom I asked before) ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:10, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Forget the sighs, IMF checks out now. The rest still applies, including spelling of Wiesbaden, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:15, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


Why I nominated the opera separately? Because I didn't want to pack too much in one nom. I would prefer to have the festival nom concentrate on the theatre, just have the opera show that new things are done at an old festival. Therefore I dropped the novel from that nom and now would like to stress the composer and the subject in the second. Much more could be said, about Rostropovich and the Swedish premiere ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:50, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

AfD: Jihadi tourism[edit]

Hello 4meter4. I just wanted to drop by and say that I have no hard feelings or objections to the AfD. I would have appreciated a courtesy notification, though. By the way, if I argue for a keep, it's just to explain my rationale. Feedback from the community as to what sorts of articles are acceptable helps me learn. Let the chips fall as they may. I am just sorry to drag contributors off the mainspace and onto backpages. I don't want to drain the project's resources creating controversy. My best wishes, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:26, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

No hard feelings here either Anna, and the AFD nomination is in no way meant to dicourage you from contributing to wikipedia. Sorry for not leaving a warning on your talk page. When I put it up for AFD, I figured you would see my post at DYK and notice changes on your watchlist. I therefore fealt a warning wasn't necessary. Best.4meter4 (talk) 12:54, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
No worries about the notification. I bumped into it soon enough. (I don't usually keep DYK hogging top spot on my watchlist even when I have an item on deck. I check-in occasionally instead.)
I wasn't quite sure about the article when I started it. I guess we'll see what the community says.
I'm not at all discouraged from contributing. However, this might end my foray into such subjects. I rather prefer making articles about lovely species of marine life. :) Best wishes and happy editing, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:35, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Re: Alt hook for Władysław Raginis[edit]

Well, while E5 is actually ambiguous, I must say I've overlooked this (rather fine) point. The hook simply appeared too long to me. Still, I saw no obvious way to make it shorter... GregorB (talk) 07:21, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I think I fixed it[edit]

Do you care to take a look? BelloWello (talk) 02:32, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Done, obviously the article requires further improvement, but hopefully that's enough for DYK and we can further improve it to GA later. BelloWello (talk) 02:51, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I have raised a question about an article you moved to Prep for DYK[edit]

Here is where I raised the issue:

I got involved with this article only as a result of the more general issue that DYK policy discourages POV articles and hooks. I don't usually edit in the P/I area, and my own inexpertise and sheer ignorance of the strong feelings many people have on these issues have probably made me more tactless in the past than I hope I will be in the future. Although I hope in the future I won't be involved editing too many more like this. Just to be clear it is NOT my POV that Israel has "stolen land" but I had no idea how upsetting it would be to some other editors if the article just quoted the exact language of a reviewer for the Palestine Times.

Whether or not you feel the article is already neutral, I hope you will give fair consideration to my belief that the current hook is not neutral, and to the fact that the article still has ongoing POV disputes. betsythedevine (talk) 03:01, 6 May 2011 (UTC)


Hi, I was just wondering why today you suddenly jumped in and started approving hooks for which I was in the middle of discussions with the page creator? I'm referring to List of La Sierra University Presidents and Aman Sveti Stefan. When I initiate a discussion with the page creator, I do try to check the DYK talk page a few times a day to see if there's a response. Granted, if someone else's discussion has been lying around for a few days without resolution, I do try to go in and finish it up, but a few hours? I admire your work and I'm sure this is a one-time occurrence, but please give me at least a day to respond to discussions that I start. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 15:24, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I'm not familiar with the DYK rule about not being able to approve your own alt hook; in fact, I do it all the time. Could you point me to the rule? Yoninah (talk) 18:06, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Prep 3 too new?[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Prep 3 too new?. OCNative (talk) 04:58, 10 May 2011 (UTC) (Using {{pls}})

Using time of day when building a DYK set[edit]

In regards to this recent edit of yours, the lack of U.S. related hooks and preponderance of Asian hooks is due to the fact that the time of day when the set is scheduled to run was considered when the set was compiled. With the current four updates/day pattern, Template:Did you know/Preparation area 2 is currently (as per normal practice) the second update of the day and loads at 06:00 (UTC). This corresponds to 2am on the U.S. East Coast and 11 pm on the West Coast. The practice of considering the time of day a DYK set will run is common practice among many experienced DYK workers as it cuts down on complaints of "my hook ran in the middle of the night" at Wikipedia talk:Did you know, provides hooks of "local interest" to readers who are awake, and reduces bias complaints to Talk:Main Page (people are more likely to see bias in hooks related to places with which they are unfamiliar). --Allen3 talk 12:11, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Lolita (opera) looks like going to run "in the middle of the night", could you place it later? - I came here, though, to say something else: that I happen to love the book "Die Stadt hinter dem Strom", so hopefully will find time to deal with your request. But I will be traveling for the rest of the month and will have to find out about internet availabilty, which also concerns the opera DYK, Grossman planned for tomorrow. Btw, Munich Biennale on the Hauptseite of de today and tomorrow, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:53, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Kasack started, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:04, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Lolita will appear for the Americans then, makes sense, as English is the only one of the four languages in which it was not performed yet, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:01, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Forget that, looks now like 12 hours later, I better stop calculating from the prep position, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Blanche Thebom[edit]

Materialscientist (talk) 06:02, 15 May 2011 (UTC)


I expanded both author and novel a bit, but not quite to DYK standard. If I don't manage could you do it for me, expand and nominate? Also put a daily DYK on the opera talk? Thanks for your recent singers! Worst case I will be off until Friday, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:43, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

On unbeliably slow lines, I managed to get the nom in time, but a few more refs would be great, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:56, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Hans Vogt (composer) is expanded, but probably not 5*. It's about all I can do, for time and access to sources. If you can find more (there is a pdf in an archive of Abendblatt 1955), feel free to expand (and nom), May almost over, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:03, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Expanded more, nominated, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:21, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Edyth Walker[edit]

The DYK project (nominate) 18:04, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Stanislao Gastaldon[edit]

The DYK project (nominate) 09:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Cat suggestion[edit]

Excellent suggestion. I have "support"-ed it. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:34, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. Hopefully everyone will be happy with the suggested changes.4meter4 (talk) 20:29, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Nathaniel Merrill[edit]

An excellent and worthy addition. Centpacrr (talk) 19:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Tonhalle again[edit]

Thanks for the additions to Hans Vogt. I removed all the stub classes and hope a reviewer will manage, so that the composer of the month of May can appear in May. - Travelling to the Zürich Tonhalle, as a year ago, Sibelius and Tchaikowsky this time. Zurich Tonhalle still redirects to the local orchestra which is pretty useless if another orchestra plays, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:10, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Jack Keil Wolf article move[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Jack Wolf#Move to Jack Wolf. Can you provide evidence for the motivation used? SchreyP (talk) 21:03, 27 May 2011 (UTC) (Using {{pls}})

Hi 4meter4, you were away when I posted this message. Can you have a look in the results of this move? Currently a lot of links to Jack Wolf have nothing to do with Jack Keil Wolf. -- SchreyP (talk) 17:43, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


Hi 4meter4, no hurry on the above images - at least 7 days and even then undeletion is a trivial exercise. The issue with press images is that the press produces them with the specific intent to earn income. They licence them and expect payment, for exactly the type of use we put them to. Unless we have a very compelling reason otherwise, all we're doing by hosting them is breaching WP:NFCC#2 to decorate an article. - Peripitus (Talk) 22:29, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Edward H. Harte[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Edward H. Harte at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 14:59, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Still open, perhaps you want to add there or suggest a different hook? - Could you perhaps expand Vogt's opera to DYK? 1.1k now, I would like to see there more on the novel than "dystopian", but have no more time today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:08, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Nathaniel Merrill[edit]

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:17, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Edward H. Harte[edit]

Materialscientist (talk) 00:03, 11 June 2011 (UTC)


Hi 4meter4,
a user on :de has asked me to copy your File:Daussoigne-Mehul.jpg to Commons. Before doing that, I would like to know whether you have a little bit more background about the source "Bibliothécaire M. Gilson" (a person? an institution? location? living?) and the author "Frères Ghemar" (the photographer? a photo studio? location?). Thank you. --Túrelio (talk) 12:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback and take a look at File:Joseph Daussoigne-Mehul.jpg whether you agree with the description etc. --Túrelio (talk) 23:00, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

We're recruiting art lovers![edit]

Archives of American Art Wikimedia Partnership - We need you!
Collections Storage Archives of American Art.jpg
Hi! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the Smithsonian Archives of American Art and I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about art to participate in furthering art coverage on Wikipedia. I am planning contests and projects that will allow you access, no matter where you live, to the world's largest collection of archives related to American art. Please sign up to participate here, and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 00:14, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationales[edit]

Hi 4meter4, I noticed you had a recent issue with fair use rationales.[3] You were right that you'd provided a FUR for the image, the problem was that the article link didn't point directly at the article it was used in. I've gone ahead and updated the rationale for you [4].--Crossmr (talk) 08:56, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Deletion request for File:Henry Wadsworth Longfellow stamp unveiled.jpg[edit]

Possibly unfree File:Henry Wadsworth Longfellow stamp unveiled.jpg[edit]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Henry Wadsworth Longfellow stamp unveiled.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. h-stt !? 16:18, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Question about musicals categories[edit]

Since you created the "musicals by composer" cat, could you comment on our discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Musical_Theatre#Category_question:_Musicals_by.3F this discussion? Thanks, Aristophanes68 (talk) 21:19, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

St. Peter's Church, Jaffa[edit]

Hi, this is old stuff, but I was wondering if you could check out my comment here [5].Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:22, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


Hi 4meter4, just a note to say I'm off on Tuesday for most of August. If you have time later in the month, could you take a look at the CoM and OoM for September and get a discussion going on suggestions? In the meantime have a good summer. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:10, 31 July 2011 (UTC)


... for the support at DYK. They seem to have started tightening up the rules (and have altered the nomination process). The reason I put the article up this month was that Thomas is a CoTM, but obviously it should be possible to improve it, as you say, once the reviews appear (and once I get my hands on the programme book!). Best. --GuillaumeTell 00:36, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi 4meter4![edit]

Hi 4meter4! It's great to see you around WP. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 09:25, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Survey for new page patrollers[edit]


New page patrol – Survey Invitation

Hello 4meter4! The WMF is currently developing new tools to make new page patrolling much easier. Whether you have patrolled many pages or only a few, we now need to know about your experience. The survey takes only 6 minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other then to assist us in analyzing the results of the survey; the WMF will not use the information to identify you.

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You are receiving this invitation because you have patrolled new pages. For more information, please see NPP Survey

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of Wiki Media Foundation at 10:36, 25 October 2011 (UTC).


Has nobody ever told you that it is courtesy to notify the creators of the articles?♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:30, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I would add that you shouldn't claim in AfD nominations to have made searches when you clearly haven't, for example in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shaikh Ayaz and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sebastian Arcos Bergnes. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:21, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry to have ruffled your feathers. In future I'll make sure to leave a note about the AFD on the relevent talk pages. As for the searches, I'll try and be more thorough in future before bringing it to AFD; but I'm still not perfect and may miss things sometimes. All considered, I am glad I brought all of these articles to AFD as they have resulted in considerable improvements. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:11, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

DYK for William Brown (tenor)[edit]

The DYK project (nominate) 12:10, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

John Stewart (tenor)[edit]

Hi 4meter4, I've reviewed your nomination at Template:Did you know nominations/John Stewart (tenor) and there are still issues with the referencing. If possible, could you fix the referencing issues in the article and leave notification at the nomination page? Thanks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:32, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

DYK for John Stewart (tenor)[edit]

PanydThe muffin is not subtle 00:02, 17 November 2011 (UTC)


Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg portraits of opera singers as people
Thank you for presenting opera singers of past and present not only as performers but also as human beings, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:51, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Thank you Gerda for the kind words. :-)4meter4 (talk) 23:35, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
I wanted to give Precious to the one who created opera singers in 2008 and found you again, awesome Wikipedian (24 September 2010 and 5 March 2012)! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:36, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
A year ago, you were the 46th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, now I miss you and the photographer (again), and put "Letting go of the past" on top of my talk, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:55, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Two years ago, I am happy to see your name on my watchlist again, enjoy singing! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:43, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Ruth Welting[edit]

Thanks for adding this article. Very nice, and needed for a long time. --Robert.Allen (talk) 09:14, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Bizet's Carmen[edit]

If you feel like chipping in at the peer review, or on the talkpage, any comments from you will be most welcome. Brianboulton (talk) 20:08, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Teatro Sociale[edit]

Thanks for your "heads up". I'll have to cross-check with Lynn when I return from a trip to California later this week. However, her book is about the only source out there. Viva-Verdi (talk) 16:31, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Richard K. Olney[edit]

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Richard K. Olney requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. kashmiri 13:45, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Richard K. Olney for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Richard K. Olney is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Richard K. Olney until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. kashmiri 14:38, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Credo Reference Update & Survey (your opinion requested)[edit]

Credo Reference, who generously donated 400 free Credo 250 research accounts to Wikipedia editors over the past two years, has offered to expand the program to include 100 additional reference resources. Credo wants Wikipedia editors to select which resources they want most. So, we put together a quick survey to do that:

It also asks some basic questions about what you like about the Credo program and what you might want to improve.

At this time only the initial 400 editors have accounts, but even if you do not have an account, you still might want to weigh in on which resources would be most valuable for the community (for example, through WikiProject Resource Exchange).

Also, if you have an account but no longer want to use it, please leave me a note so another editor can take your spot.

If you have any other questions or comments, drop by my talk page or email me at Cheers! Ocaasi t | c 17:05, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of John Delaney (businessman) for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article John Delaney (businessman) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Delaney (businessman) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Ma®©usBritish[chat] 01:50, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Where's Dick? for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Where's Dick? is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Where's Dick? until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. DOSGuy (talk) 17:16, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

A bowl of strawberries for you![edit]

Erdbeerteller01.jpg Thank you for putting that notice about Sanjay Pugalia on Khazar2's talk page. The best route to saving it was through an overhaul and you helped spark that campaign! Please take a look at it now, Best wishes Crtew (talk) 14:17, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I am interested in journalists and most of my work here is about journalists who have been killed for their reporting. Is there a good way to follow AfD nominations for a specific category? I find wading through AfD confusing and have never mastered this skill. You look like you have a lot more experience than I do tracking those nominations. Any pointers would be very much appreciated! Crtew (talk) 15:17, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Merry Christmas[edit]

Happy Holidays, 4meter4!

It's nice to see you visiting the Opera Project even though you're semi-retired. Have a wonderful music-filled Christmas and a very happy new year.

Voceditenore (talk) 10:34, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Rain On The Just for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Rain On The Just is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rain On The Just (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Eduemoni↑talk↓ 01:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Composers for FA[edit]

I noticed your suggestions for composer and opera FAs. Britten is up for PR, did you know? Did you see my collection of Wagner DYK, just for fun? Verdi deserves improvement, for example Quattro pezzi sacri, still with red links of the parts, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:30, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

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Michael Tippett[edit]

Hallo, I just wrote something in the German - - about Michael Tippett,- because text was wrong...someone wrote before, that he had never experiences in music as child. Ups! And the page comes probably from SCHOTT EDITION. When I finished my small correcture, I found two books and I´m new in Wiki, so I did not know how I fit it. (-) So I looked on your english page of M. Tippett, WHOW, surprise. WONDERFUL! Nothing is better- Nothing. And such article need one week very hard work. 1. Problem is, that all would be easier, if Wiki could mange, that all can read ONE common article. 2. So it would be unseful, if the german article would have a link to yours. BEdause: If I write in GOOGLE M.Tippett, then GOOGLE gives only the GERMAN results,- nothing to en. I got it, because I had suddenly the idea to use the "Tippett.en." 2. Problem is in your article I could not find this here, with two ID (?): Music of the Angels: Essays and Sketchbooks

Tippett, Michael Verlag: Eulenburg Books, 1980 ISBN 10: 0903873605 / ISBN 13: 9780903873604 many greetings--Monna Ry (talk) 23:27, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Books and Bytes: The Wikipedia Library Newsletter[edit]

Books and Bytes

Volume 1, Issue 1, October 2013

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by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs)

Greetings Wikipedia Library members! Welcome to the inaugural edition of Books and Bytes, TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account: HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane. To receive future updates of Books and Bytes, please add your name to the subscriber's list. There's lots of news this month for the Wikipedia Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved...

New positions: Sign up to be a Wikipedia Visiting Scholar, or a Volunteer Wikipedia Librarian

Wikipedia Loves Libraries: Off to a roaring start this fall in the United States: 29 events are planned or have been hosted.

New subscription donations: Cochrane round 2; HighBeam round 8; Questia round 4... Can we partner with NY Times and Lexis-Nexis??

New ideas: OCLC innovations in the works; VisualEditor Reference Dialog Workshop; a photo contest idea emerges

News from the library world: Wikipedian joins the National Archives full time; the Getty Museum releases 4,500 images; CERN goes CC-BY

Announcing WikiProject Open: WikiProject Open kicked off in October, with several brainstorming and co-working sessions

New ways to get involved: Visiting scholar requirements; subject guides; room for library expansion and exploration

Read the full newsletter

Thanks for reading! All future newsletters will be opt-in only. Have an item for the next issue? Leave a note for the editor on the Suggestions page. --The Interior 22:08, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Merger proposal[edit]

Merge discussion for Canadian Academy of Music[edit]


An article that you have been involved in editing, Canadian Academy of Music, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. EncyclopediaUpdaticus (talk) 15:04, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library Survey[edit]

As a subscriber to one of The Wikipedia Library's programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this brief survey. Thanks and cheers, Ocaasi t | c 16:03, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 15[edit]

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From London[edit]

St. Paul's Cathedral...
Merry Christmas, 4meter4, and a very happy new year! Voceditenore

More from London :). Congratulations on your new house and the concert! I've provisionally sorted out the Richard Cowan kerfuffle and left a note on the article talk page and on my own. It looks like either he, or someone associated with him, had a go at "expanding" the article in 2012 and made a suitable hash of it. All the best, Voceditenore (talk) 07:54, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 21[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for March 7[edit]

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I don't have any objection to your removing the list of singers from falsetto (and I didn't add any of them myself), since the list is pretty useless information, but they aren't really OR in the sense that each of the linked pages describes the singer in question as using their falsetto voice; I have been monitoring additions to that list and culling ones whose pages don't mention the term. —Wahoofive (talk) 19:29, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

P.S. there's some wiki syntax problem with the barnstar below; I originally put this note at the bottom but it got included in the box. —Wahoofive (talk) 19:31, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts![edit]

Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
Your name came up on a Wikipediocracy thread about solid content writers who don't get the credit they deserve and I just wanted to drop by and do a little of that. Thanks for your work on behalf of The Project! Carrite (talk) 15:27, 31 March 2014 (UTC)


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Hello, 4meter4. You have new messages at Stefan2's talk page.
Message added 00:15, 21 September 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Stefan2 (talk) 00:15, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Template:Voice type[edit]

I figured since they both had fairly fleshed out articles they should be part of the template, in my experience there are some very specific bass-baritone roles, and plenty of singers who consider themselves a bass-baritone. The basso profoundo is a totally different type of singing altogether too. Aaron Bruce (talk) 15:34, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

I agree with the fact that many singers identify themselves with a particular fach and its associated roles. However, this template is meant to direct readers to the main voice types, and not sub-types. If you look at the bass (voice type) and baritone articles, there are a plethora of sub types (basso profundo and bass-baritone only being two of such sub-types). Let's not overburden this template by muddying the waters, otherwise we will soon have a massive and confusing template to the general reader with every sub-type imaginable. For example, soprano would expand to dramatic soprano, lyric coloratura soprano, dramatic coloratura soprano, spinto soprano, full lyric soprano, light lyric soprano, soubrette, etc. Further, some of these sub-types are not used universally, but the main voice types are. Ultimately, I think it better serves the reader to be directed to these broader pages. 4meter4 (talk) 23:58, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Bluebeard's Castle[edit]

This might be of interest to you: It's an article about an uncited claim that appears to have been inserted into the article by one of your accounts, if I am reading the edit history correctly. Gamaliel (talk) 16:13, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:Anneliese Rothenberger.jpg[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:Anneliese Rothenberger.jpg. I noticed that this file is being used under a claim of fair use. However, I think that the way it is being used fails the first non-free content criterion. This criterion states that files used under claims of fair use may have no free equivalent; in other words, if the file could be adequately covered by a freely-licensed file or by text alone, then it may not be used on Wikipedia. If you believe this file is not replaceable, please:

  1. Go to the file description page and add the text {{di-replaceable fair use disputed|<your reason>}} below the original replaceable fair use template, replacing <your reason> with a short explanation of why the file is not replaceable.
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Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media item by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by creating new media yourself (for example, by taking your own photograph of the subject).

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these media fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per the non-free content policy. If you have any questions, please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 21:05, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Boston Early Music Festival's Psyché.jpg[edit]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Boston Early Music Festival's Psyché.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you object to the listing for any reason. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:36, 7 December 2014 (UTC)


? Dinosaur Fan (talk) 07:39, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

?4meter4 (talk) 04:12, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Hochschule für Musik Saar[edit]

Thank you! Very useful. The name dates from 2002, we can't claim that someone born 1933 studied at the Hochschule für Musik Saar, - I typically use Musikhochschule Saarbrücken in such cases, which was possibly never an official name, but practical ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:22, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Philip Brunelle[edit]

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You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Philip Brunelle requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article or image appears to be a clear copyright infringement. This article or image appears to be a direct copy from For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

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If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Jcmcc450 (talk) 16:34, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Precious again[edit]

Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

portraits of opera singers as people
Thank you for quality articles, presenting opera singers of past and present not only as performers but also as human beings, - repeating: you are an awesome Wikipedian (24 September 2010)!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:51, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Three years ago, you were the 48th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, repeated in br'erly style, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:29, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


I note your "semi-retired" banner, but I wonder if I can interest you in the FAC for Verdi's Falstaff? I had been working on the article on and off in collaboration with Viva-Verdi (John Webber), who, as you know, died in March. This FAC is by way of being my personal tribute to him, and any suggestions for polishing it further would be particularly gladly received. – Tim riley talk 12:03, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Re: Far from Heaven (musical)[edit]

Thank you for creating this article. I added it to Wikipedia:Wiki Loves Pride 2015/Results, which records LGBT-related articles created during the month of June as part of the annual Wiki Loves Pride campaign. If you happen to create or improve other LGBT-related articles this month, feel free to update this Results page accordingly. Thanks again! ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:06, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Re: Cleopatra and Caesar (painting)[edit]

Hi. Thanks for your DYK review of Cleopatra and Caesar (painting). Can you please amend your review to note that 1) it was moved from User:Viriditas/Cleopatra and Caesar (painting) to mainspace on June 2, 2015, and expanded 5x until 8 June with 5416 characters (883 words) "readable prose size"?[6][7] You will also need to note in your review whether the article is 2) neutral, 3) cites sources with inline citations, 4) is free of close paraphrasing, copyright violations, and plagiarism, and note whether the hook is in the 5) appropriate format (163 words), is 6) interesting, accurate, neutral, and cited inline, and note whether the 7) QPQ checks out (Shetland sheep), and if the 8) image is free to use. Please check to see if these things are true and if so, note them in the review. Your current review does not evaluate for this DYK criteria, and I'm afraid your review will prevent my hook from ever reaching the queue. In order to meet the guidelines, the hook and article must be reviewed for these things. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 01:14, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Sydney Lucas[edit]

 — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:06, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Great to see you back[edit]

Hi 4meter4. Great to see you back for while! And many new articles too! Hope life is treating you well. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:02, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Voceditenore. It's been great working with you again. Life is going well. I am currently working on a Masters of Music degree at the University of Oklahoma in the summers when I'm not teaching and performing. How have you been?4meter4 (talk) 16:57, 4 July 2015 (UTC)


Thank you for a factual comment on the opera Joseph. I really should have looked up the contributor. There is a lot of history behind the exchange, which you possibly missed, but you didn't miss much, example pictured. If the arbitrators had followed your thinking (and mine: why duplicate the bottom navbox by a side navbox?) things would have turned out differently. I was late to infoboxes and will probably never understand why they are treated so differently from other features helping a topic, such as images, maps, tables etc. Why is an image "added", while an infobox is "imposed"? - Anyway, The Rite of Spring was mentioned in the 2013 example, a FA with a lot of debate then, which has an infobox now, as FA Carmen, as all operas by Verdi and almost all by Wagner, - changing slowly but changing, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:30, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Josephine Lucchese[edit]

Thank you for adding more info to Josephine Lucchese. Great to see someone else is interested in her. Someone could potentially move more pictures to Wikimedia Commons with a category and possibly a few recordings (I am not sure).Zigzig20s (talk) 00:31, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

That's a great idea and thanks for creating the article. Pics and recordings are not my expertise though. Happy to help with content though.4meter4 (talk) 00:33, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Btw could you please in-line the Cuba info you added? Usually I try to in-line every sentence, because it makes it far less confusing once other editors want to expand the page but keep the correct references in place.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:17, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Done. I'm finished with my expansion. Best.4meter4 (talk) 01:46, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. You found a lot! I will create her father's page over the weekend. Incidentally, if you are interested in opera, it would be great to work on opera companies and vocalists from the Southern US.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:52, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
I have been an active member of WP:WikiProject Opera for many years. I write articles on opera singers regularly. I discovered your article because I check User:AlexNewArtBot/OperaSearchResult regularly. I knew about Lucchese because of her work in Philadelphia. The history of opera in Philadelphia and New York City is an area of interest for me. I contribute regularly to articles on singers who have been active in those cities. I am happy to help you with any future projects, but have a huge bucket list of articles on my create list. Best.4meter4 (talk) 01:55, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Wonderful. I wonder if we could find anything about the Antebellum South. Or more on Cuba prior to the revolution. Basically I am interested in details and "lost societies". There is probably a lot to uncover from opera.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:04, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
There is a lot of history at the New Orleans Opera and there is an article titled Opera in Atlanta. New Orleans has a rich and well documented opera history. Other than that, I am not aware of any major opera companies/ opera houses in the south during that era (and I have read enough on singers from the era to know that there wasn't another major company in the South). There was a penchant for opera houses to be built in cities in the south. But these "opera houses" hosted a wide variety of entertainments such as vaudeville acts. When operas were performed in the South (except for New Orleans), they were almost exclusively performed by touring companies (often European in origin) who popped in for a US tour (during the off-season when the European opera houses were not running productions) and then returned home. Eventually Americans formed there own touring opera companies at the end of 19th century/early 20th century like the San Carlo Opera Company (the most successful and longest lasting US touring company), but these companies were based out of cities with a long history of opera like New York, Boston, Chicago, and San Francisco. It wasn't until the mid 20th century that a movement towards home grown opera in the South took root. This article on the history of opera in Texas is fairly representative of opera in the south during this era. Best.4meter4 (talk) 02:47, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Btw, Josephine could be a good candidate for DYK, if you are interested. I don't know how to assess other articles to have access to it though.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:06, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
There is a Good Faith assumption at DYK for cited references that are offline or behind a pay wall. That said, in my experience it's best to write a hook that is supported by a source accessible to anyone online. I have no interest in nominating it myself, but I am ok with you doing so. Best.4meter4 (talk) 02:16, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
DYK is a nightmare to make it go through. Btw, are you interested in creating articles about those red links you added please? I can't sleep and so I've created her father's page.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:21, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes I am interested.4meter4 (talk) 05:27, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Bach singers[edit]

Thanks for your attention for singers created to fill the red links here. I met Mr. Brutscher once who was scheduled to be the Evangelist for our St. Matthew but realized in rehearsal that his voice wasn't up to it because of a cold. I remember Max van Egmond telephoning tenors he knew for replacement (open rehearsal same day!) on an open telephone booth on the street ;) - He found Max Ciolek but not for the open rehearsal, - the conductor was the Evangelist, on top of conducting the work for the first time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:13, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome.What a good story. Glad something worked out in the end. Can't imagine conducting and singing the Evangelist at the same time.4meter4 (talk) 22:48, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
It was tough, even when no conducting is needed while singing the recitative, - the continuo should follow the singer anyway. Thre conductor sometimes walks away when soloists sing their arias, feeling that conducting only disturbs ;) - For the last Bach concert (Mass in B minor, pictured), we had a terrific orchestra, - the keyboard player switched from harpsichord to organ, playing the concert from a facsimile of the autograph! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:09, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Summer note[edit]

Hi 4meter4, just a note to say I'm off to Italy for a month. I'll probably check in at the OP once in a while, though. If we don't "talk" before I get back, have a great summer and tanti auguri for your MA and your performances. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 17:20, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Voceditenore! Enjoy your much deserved vacation. I know you will be basking in the delights of Tuscany. Are you going to the Festival Puccini while you are there? Please eat some decadent meals for me.4meter4 (talk) 21:29, 1 August 2015 (UTC)