User talk:A. B.

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Hi. Just to let you know, that this article has been nominated for deletion. -Mardus /talk 02:10, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for letting me know. I think this AfD is a mistake. —A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 12:50, 23 May 2023 (UTC) A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 12:50, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Welcome back! If you haven't seen already: m:Wikiproject:Antispam is a cross-wiki anti-spam project. It focuses on undisclosed paid-for spam articles but also does cross-wiki spam cleanup. I've been seeing more instances where UPE spammers are also link spammers. MER-C 19:01, 3 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the welcome. It makes me happy to hear from you.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 19:06, 3 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Scottywong case opened[edit]

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Scottywong. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Scottywong/Evidence. Please add your evidence by June 21, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Scottywong/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, –MJLTalk 19:22, 7 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Second sentence is why I'm not sure your search comes up correctly (on system end, not yours). Just didn't find that appropriate for the eyes of the Board. Star Mississippi 01:33, 10 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Little oops[edit]

I saw your edit to Jack4576's talk page. Twinkle1990 identifies as she/her (per her WP prefs visible on mouseover popup). Just fyi. Schazjmd (talk) 18:03, 16 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oops indeed!
Thanks for letting me know.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 19:31, 16 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for all you do[edit]

The Barnstar of Diplomacy
I just saw how you stood by me to ensure that the pages I created on Nigerian topics don’t get deleted. You’re appreciated. Amaekuma (talk) 09:18, 24 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you so much! I'm honored. A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 13:19, 24 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Books & Bytes – Issue 57[edit]

The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 57, May – June 2023

  • Suggestion improvements
  • Favorite collections tips
  • Spotlight: Promoting Nigerian Books and Authors

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --11:22, 18 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A barnstar for you![edit]

The Special Barnstar
Thank you for addressing an unfounded personal attack, both in the AfD and on the ANI page. You spoke up against injustice and went on and beyond expectations! gidonb (talk) 00:01, 20 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you[edit]

I am grateful to you for voting to keep Arleen McCarty Hynes. I found her on Women in Red, and have been learning how to write bios by crafting ones from its ranks that fall within my interests. WIR cautions that they won't all necessarily be notable, but I thought she was and I'm honored you stepped in to agree. Fortunaa (talk) 21:41, 28 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A barnstar for you![edit]

The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Thank you for all of the time you spend checking, rechecking and tracking down references in AFD discussions. You indeed seem tireless! Liz Read! Talk! 02:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks. I try to think "What would Liz think of this?" --A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 03:06, 30 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi! I thought that concerns about my behavior (in this case re WP:BITE) are better discussed on a talk page, rather than at an AFD.

First, I‘d like to say that I fundamentally agree that it would be a shame if these editors did not continue to contribute to WP. However, my interactions with them were clearly aimed at helping them navigate the complex policies and guidelines.

My very first interaction (after the automated PROD message) was to offer my help. The subsequent misunderstanding regarding WP:PAID was unfortunate, but I think understandable given the wording of their reply. I apologised and informed them of WP:COI, which clearly applies here.

I then [[offered my help again, and then we had a brief exchange about independence of sources.

I think opening the SPI investigation is clearly explained over there and quite legitimate. While good intentions should be assumed, and I did make that assumption, meatpuppeting is nonetheless inappropriate (and can look very similar to sockpuppeting).

As the PROD was declined and notability issues were not addressed, I think an AFD was quite appropriate.

Again, it really would be a shame if these editors are so discouraged as to not return. But I‘m not sure how I should have handled this better without overstretching AGF beyond reasonability. I‘m open to the idea that I may have messed up; if I have, please tell me what I should have done differently. I appreciate your time with this, thanks for taking a look! :)Actualcpscm (talk) 12:06, 2 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, now we have a double BITE problem, which is that I was on a real warpath when I left those messages. I realized this several hours later. So please accept my apologies.
In the meantime, I'll think about your question.
Thanks for reaching out and thanks for caring!
—13:54, 2 August 2023 (UTC) A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 13:54, 2 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No worries! :) I understand that this outcome (we might lose valuable editors) really sucks, and defending newcomers against biting is important, so thanks to you as well for caring! Hopefully you can get them back to working on WP (referring to your emails). Happy editing! :) Actualcpscm (talk) 14:05, 2 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A barnstar for you![edit]

The Barnstar of Diplomacy
For doing the right thing in multiple places after an initially unpleasant misunderstanding, and for calling me out when you suspected wrongdoing. Actualcpscm (talk) 19:27, 2 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm really honored!
Suggestion - talk to an admin to withdraw the AfD "without prejudice" for now until the volunteers are done with it, then reevaluate it for notability.
Just a thought - your call.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 19:30, 2 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Seems reasonable, but I'm not sure why I need an admin for that – I could just withdraw (i.e. speedy keep) and make clear that it's with the intention of having the AFD later. Or did you have something else in mind? Actualcpscm (talk) 19:43, 2 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's a better idea! Let the volunteers know.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 19:54, 2 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hi A. B., I saw you had added some additional WikiProject notifications at WP:Articles for deletion/Felix Omobude. Is there a tool that makes adding such notifications easy? S0091 (talk) 17:14, 5 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If you find one, let me know. I did those manually. If it looks like I did them quickly, it's just because I had three browser windows open and was copying and pasting. When I was done, I hit "publish changes" in quick succession.
I need to be more proactive in looking for tools. I was a prolific editor/admin 10-15 years ago, then took a 10-year Wikibreak. I'm sort of still in 2012!
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 17:24, 5 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, that just reminded me that 2012 was more than a decade ago :O Actualcpscm (talk) 17:29, 5 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I was more interesting then.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 17:33, 5 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sometimes I think a topic is a bit too off by itself get much benefit from our traditional deletion-sorting lists; I'll post at a specialized Wikiproject. The classic example is:
Wikipedia: Articles for deletion/H₂weh₁yú
For starters, how do you even pronounce H₂weh₁yú? It looks like a name Elon Musk would give his child.
It's a Proto-Indo-European reconstructed word so I left a message for the experts at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics.
Some might call this CANVASSING; I call it a cry for help.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 17:34, 5 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Lol, never thought this question would lead to Elon Musk. Dang, was hoping you had some magic up you sleeve but kudos to you for making the effort manually. S0091 (talk) 17:48, 5 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


FWIW several notability criteria have tightened since 2012 (welcome back, btw :) ). NSPORTS and PORNBIO come to mind (the latter was simply deprecated), but also NCORP, which was completely rewritten 5ish years ago. It is a higher standard than GNG now, including e.g. Attention solely from local media ... or media of limited interest and circulation ... is not an indication of notability. (noticed your comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Air Charter Service (2nd nomination)). I don't know if that one's notable, and probably won't offer a !vote -- just a heads up. :) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:37, 6 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Outside the AfD discussion, thought you may be interested in this. Could be an opportunity to address the concerns of NCORP and how it is applied. CNMall41 (talk) 23:56, 8 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 23:58, 8 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Important notice[edit]

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 12:10, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for letting me know. These should definitely apply to those 2 AfDs and their associated articles; especially WP:1RR.
Do not strike comments by other participants on the basis of unproven sock allegations as you have done. Get a checkuser first. Otherwise you are violating WP:ATTACK.
You are on the verge of getting sanctioned.
These AfDs will probably end up at WP:ANI, given current behaviour by many on both sides. You don't want to end up in the middle; outcomes are hard to predict. I suggest you just politely walk away for now to CYA; you've already made your points multiple times.
The closing admin will make their own decision based on evidence and policy, not folks' heated bludgeoning.
Do not CANVASS. There are indications of this on both sides. Checkusers have previously noted likely meat puppetry comments on your part. This could get you the "long goodbye" (indefinite ban).
I am driving the next several days and may be hard to reach. I have left Liz, an admin, a request to keep an eye on these articles and AfDs in the meantime.
Please, for your own good, lay low.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 12:50, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You are being outright misleading with your false claims here. Let me correct you on every single point:
1) What is the relevance of WP:1RR here? How it is applicable here?
2) Checkusers won't check IP socks. As per the policy they are discouraged to do it except in very exceptional cases.
3) I removed sock comments only because it was obvious as sky being blue that same sock is evading his block. All IPs got blocked within minutes. You are supposed to comply with the ethics even if they are opposed to your POV.
4) What "both sides"? You made frivolous attempts to save Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad as proven with the "Delete" outcome on the AfD.
5) Where I am engaging in canvassing? Only canvassing is being done by the IP sock not only here[1] but also on Wikipedias of other languages.[2]
6) Not a single checkuser ever said that I am engaging in meatpuppetry.
Lastly, you will benefit from reading WP:CIR and WP:ASPERSIONS. You should read it urgently given your eagerness to make false claims. Just like you were doing on WP:AFD with regards to policies.[3]
It makes no sense that you are trying to create conduct issue out of yourself with all these false claims over a block evading sockpuppet disrupting Wikipedia to create this article for over 10 years. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 07:30, 13 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ok. I'm traveling. Take my advice above or don't take my advice - it's up to you. I'll be at the beach.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 12:08, 13 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In case you haven't checked, I haven't edited either AfDs for 4 days now because the IP sock is apparently gone. Enjoy your vacation! Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 02:49, 14 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New pages patrol invitation[edit]

Hello, A. B..
  • The new pages patrol team is currently struggling to keep up with the influx of new articles needing review. We could use a few extra hands to help.
  • I believe that someone with your activity and experience is very likely to meet the guidelines for granting.
  • Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time, but it requires a strong understanding of Wikipedia’s CSD policy and notability guidelines.
  • Kindly read the tutorial before making your decision, and feel free to post on the project talk page with questions.
  • If patrolling new pages is something you'd be willing to help out with, please consider applying here.

Thank you for your consideration. We hope to see you around!

Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 17:30, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm traveling the next 2 weeks. Maybe after that.
Thanks for what you all do.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 17:56, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No worries, any time you feel up for it I'm confident the team would love to have you. Hope your travel goes smoothly! Hey man im josh (talk) 17:57, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

IP block exemption request[edit]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

A. B. (block logactive blocksglobal blockscontribsdeleted contribsfilter logcreation logchange block settingsunblockcheckuser (log))

Request reason:

I am requesting an IP block exemption as a long-time trusted editor with a clean block log. A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 01:08, 13 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Accept reason:

IPBE granted for a year. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 01:26, 13 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 01:08, 13 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hello A. B., Just noticed that you will be away on vacation and wanted to wish you a good break. Take care. - Indefensible (talk) 05:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Make misleading reverts like that. Per WP:DENY and WP:SOCKSTRIKE, we are required not to waste time over requests by block evading socks.

If you have strong feelings over this AfD then start a new DRV on you own. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 17:44, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You are an involved party. You can be sanctioned for closing a DRV in which you’re involved, sock or no sock. A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 17:48, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
WP:DENY and WP:SOCKSTRIKE does not care about who is involved. Stop your disruptive editing. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 17:53, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Aman.kumar.goel - be ready for an extensive review of your edits, these two articles, their 2 AfDs and the DRV at WP:ANI if you keep this up. I’m ready for mine to be reviewed.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 17:54, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Don't let the door hit you. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 17:56, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Your most recent comment aged poorly. You never even went to ANI.
You should’ve taken my advice from 4 days ago. Most IPs are ignorant of Wikipedia’s rules and you’ve found them easy to abuse by gaming the system. Your mistake is to now abrasively play wikilawyer with established editors who know this place even better than you.
I was an admin for several years before my long wikibreak. I’m not surprised this ended in tears.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 18:47, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Can you substantiate your nonsensical claim that "Most IPs are ignorant of Wikipedia’s rules and you’ve found them easy to abuse by gaming the system"? Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 06:27, 19 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Notice of Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents discussion[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:19, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You knew that, but I am following process. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:21, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Process is important which is what that AfD and DRV are all about. I’m on the wrong side of the trend at DRV but that happens. What shouldn’t happen is the shenanigans I saw at the AfD and the DRV.
Thanks for doing your part, Robert.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 23:32, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hello. I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. In what way is this not unambiguous promotion? It's clear as day. Paul Vaurie (talk) 06:25, 29 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I removed the speedy tag on Draft:Punch Powertrain for several reasons:
  1. The article is in draft space and it's not harming anything.
  2. The company is probably notable if you look at the French Wikipedia's article: fr:Punch Powertrain
    • These guys are apparently global players -- perhaps the biggest -- in continuously variable transmission manufacturing.
    • That article is well-sourced. I looked at each ref.
    • A decent article is possible here.
  3. We just gave the author feedback -- why not let them act on it first?
That was my reasoning, good or bad. A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 06:32, 29 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's all good, but the draft was admittedly just promotion. Paul Vaurie (talk) 15:48, 29 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Indeed, it has a POV tone; nevertheless Wp:G11 states:
  • "This applies to pages that are exclusively promotional and would need to be fundamentally rewritten to serve as encyclopedia articles, rather than advertisements. If a subject is notable and the content could plausibly be replaced with text written from a neutral point of view, this is preferable to deletion.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 16:00, 29 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Related to Why Loiter? Campaign[edit]

The page was created by a group of people who did it together, hence there were edits by multiple users. Apart from that, does it not appear to be violating CSD A7 and CSD A11 if they are edited by a single group of people? The Activities section wholly looks that way. Requesting a friendly clarification so that I can differentiate the violations clearly in future. Thewikizoomer (talk) 06:53, 29 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Let's look at these criteria as they apply to our Why Loiter? Campaign article:
  • CSD A7: "This applies to any article about a real person, individual animal, commercial or non-commercial organization, web content, or organized event that does not indicate why its subject is important or significant, with the exception of educational institutions. This is distinct from verifiability and reliability of sources, and is a lower standard than notability."
    • The articles states right in the lede that this program was featured in BBC 100 women -- that's the BBC and it's global -- it asserts notability.
    • The article goes on to cite many references to support not just a claim of notability but actual notability
  • CSD A11: "This applies to any article that plainly indicates that the subject was invented/coined/discovered by the article's creator or someone the creator personally knows, and does not credibly indicate why its subject is important or significant. The criterion does not apply to any article that makes any credible claim of significance or importance even if the claim is not supported by a reliable source or does not qualify under Wikipedia's notability guidelines."
    • Is there a reason to believe the editors that wrote the article invented this campaign or were somehow involved with its inception 9 years ago? I don't see any myself.
    • As noted above, the article asserts notability and is, in fact, notable.
Just because the Activities section sounds like the editors support the campaign doesn't mean you delete the article. Deletion ≠ cleanup. They cite references to support each claim. Collectively there's a POV issue but nothing that calls for deletion.
Does your tagging have anything to do with Sockpuppet investigations/TechGenWikinator03? It looks like this was possibly created during an edit-thon.
This is my reasoning and you are free to disagree with me. If you still feel the article should be deleted, you can take it to Articles for Deletion.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 07:16, 29 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Signpost: 31 August 2023[edit]

Quick question[edit]

Hey! Thanks for listing my PROD for National parishes (Quebec) at the Christianity deletion noticeboard. Do you use a tool to track AfDs and PRODs for Christianity-related subjects? If so, I'd love to use it to keep tabs so I can participate in those discussions even if they aren't listed. Thank you for your clerking! ~ Pbritti (talk) 05:54, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No tool - I just skim the PROD and AfD lists for articles that interest me or for articles that I think need another set of eyes.
In the case of Quebec churches, it was both. I think your assessment is probably correct but I threw it out there "just in case". I was going to leave a note at WikiProject Quebec, too, but ran out of time. I was thinking that if there were refs, they'd be in French. Also, since this is a French topic, maybe the article's title in English isn't quite right.
Being lazy with terrible French skills, I outsource these concerns and any searching to others with a posting at deletion sorting.
I find about 25% of the PRODs I do this with get overturned by someone who knows the subject. In other cases, somebody puts a PROD2 tag, confirming an article is trash.
That article is fishy-looking to me. I think a posting at WikiProject Quebec would really smoke this out. If it's really a thing, the locals will know right away.
I'll do this in the morning.
Anyway, thanks for all your work on Christianity articles!!
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 08:48, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, wow, you do it manually! You deserve every bit of credit you can get. Thank you for your willingness to take on what must feel like busywork—it really does help the project. Please feel welcome to ping me if you ever need a second set of eyes on something. Thank you for explaining your process, by the way; always nice hearing how another editor approaches things. ~ Pbritti (talk) 15:19, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Really, for me it's not busywork. Some deletions are like puzzles to be solved in the interest of getting a good outcome for Wikipedia. Reaching out for help is just one part of the process.
I don't deletion sort except articles that have caught my eye. Doing others would be sort of a chore.
I do some busywork - cleaning out old prod notices from deletion sorting lists but I view that as cleaning up after myself. Ditto hours cleaning out red links after recruiting others to delete about 100 articles about non-existent Manitoba train stations and towns. I thought I had them doing all the work but afterwards the joke was on me. More cleaning up after myself.
I'm also picky - there are whole topic areas I avoid either because I'm not interested (much of popular culture) or I have difficulty evaluating sources (Nigerian topics for example)
Ironically, I'm a deletionist at heart. I think we have a lot to purge. The majority of AfDs, CSDs and PRODs I tacitly support and don't bother to comment at. I see myself QC-ing a vital process.
Also, I tag dubious articles as I encounter them while reading for pleasure. I spend way too much time on Wikipedia reading for pleasure and not editing. More outsourcing- looks fishy but I'm enjoying reading.
I am very old school about automated editing - I should take a day or two studying how to improve my efficiency. That said, I suppose my "outsourcing" to others via deletion sorting and WikiProject notices is a way of increasing my efficiency and the scope of what I do.
Also much of what I do involves thinking - not sure Twinkle handles that. Additionally I spend too much time digging for references online - I'm always looking for ways to dig into more obscure topics.
I wish I had access to a big research university library and go look at paper books.
I've followed your work from a distance- it's people like you that do the high value stuff here!
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 16:09, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hey, if you ever want access to print texts from university libraries, let me know. I will be relocating from my beloved Colorado (may the Rocky Mountain Empire stand tall) to Washington, D.C. If you ever want me to pop over to one of the various academic libraries—including the massive Library of Congress—I'll have general access through my work. I see you're really more of a recent return after an extended absence. For whatever time you're willing to continue contributing to the project, I'd love to enable your work. Consider this a belated welcome back! ~ Pbritti (talk) 21:48, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 21:50, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Pbritti, see:
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 23:36, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A few more comments based on others seeing this thread:
  • I watch more AfDs than I participate in. If I subsequently see they don't need another opinion, I don't spend time on them.
    • If I deletion sort them, I'm monitoring them even if I don't participate
    • We have some very diligent deletion sorters, especially @Spiderone, and they often get there ahead of me. So I may still be watching an AfD even if I haven't deletion sorted it.
  • I watch PRODs -- if I've deletion sorted them, I'm watching to see if anyone responds.
Of course, this is on a heavy editing day for me like yesterday. Some days and even some years[4][5][6][7][8] I don't show up here. The world goes on.
My partner says I need another hobby and they're probably right.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 21:18, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Y'know—and I'm just spitballing here—if you decide that this hobby is something you want to keep up with, maybe in six months it might be nice to see you get back some of the tools you let lapse. You've clearly still got the aptitude and attitude required. Thanks again for the diligent work you do. ~ Pbritti (talk) 22:22, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm flattered. We'll see.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 22:25, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Love for you[edit]

I don't know how should it be expressed, but I will surely say, you are one of the greatest editors I found in english wikipedia, who evaluate edits with the highest honesty as far as possible. May God bless you. ❤️ (talk) 17:14, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you - I'm flattered, especially since you wrote this after we disagreed with each other at a DRV for the most vexatious AfD I've been involved with (out of many 100s).
I sympathize with your frustrations both with the AfD outcome and the terrible behaviour there. (See WP:SEALION!)
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 17:21, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I will not explicitly mention, but I mention to you with grief that I feel victimized by certain fierce people who you saw badger and vulnerablely force their point of view despite knowing about going against guideline, they never hasitate to tell open lie for their own interest, but God always sees, he never keeps anything left without proper judjement, and again I express feeling heartily to have a good people. (talk) 17:27, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
By the way, I ask you for info, is that, that and that edits are really undue and fringe as the undoers claimed there? (talk) 17:41, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don’t normally get involved with this topic area so I won’t comment on those edits. What I will advise is that, in your editing environment
  • Play the “long game”
    • Think in months or years
    • Consider addressing the roots of any abusive, coordinating, rather than today’s edit war
  • Pick your battles
      • You are playing the long game.
    • In particular, only add content that is unambiguously referenced by a source whose reliability will be obvious to non-South Asian, non-Muslim and non-Hindu editors. Leave no ambiguity to be exploited.
    • Don’t stop editing
    • Don’t fight over grey areas.
      • You are playing the long game
  • Take notes with diffs, URLs offline for future use
    • Get very familiar with Wikipedia’s rules. Not just the titles but the detailed content
      • You are playing the long game.
  • Stay cool. Very cool. The least little hint of incivility will be used against you, even if the other side is worse. They will have a dozen friends show up to make a big deal of it.
    • Speak to content, not personalities.
      • You are playing the long game
  • There’s an old quotation to the effect that, “if you’re going to kill the king, don’t wound him”
      • You are playing the long game
    • Avoid noticeboards unless you have double the evidence you need.
    • Read about the legal doctrine of unclean hands
    • Fairly or not, there is an unacknowledged presumption at noticeboards than an IP or new editor making a complaint is likely wrong and throwing a boomerang
    • If you show up with an IP associated with a blocked user or an open proxy, your comments will be struck or even deleted. This means if you edit at an open hotspot, you should check to see who has used the IP before you and what it’s block history is.
  • If you find hard evidence of off-wiki coordination, take screenshots. Do not post online - email to ArbCom.
I’ll post more as I think of it.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 18:29, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can clearly doubt about one or more "clever" accounts being sock recently, and also doubt that thay are (probably "highly") paid and backsupported and patronised by "higher" communities for telling on behalf of them tricky lies and doing fierce attacking behaviour to targeted opponents to defend their ownselves, lawfully and even at case verily unlawfully, and also know about "admins" accused of having bribe from international leading companies for editing on behalf of them, found in google, don't know true or false, even in that case, little can be expected, only except God helps as we rely on God for His unpredictable and unmeasurable assistance. (talk) 18:43, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you have good evidence about admin misbehaviour, send it to ArbCom.
There is meatpuppetry associated with some accounts in your topic areas. That's harder for admins to prove than sockpuppetry.
Get familiar with the tools and methods our checkusers for the behavioural part of their investigations.
You are playing the long game.
Also, you got good advice at WP:ANI - go to WP:FTN. Avoid WP:ANI if another noticeboard will work.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 18:56, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think paid exploitation of Wikipedia by political and sectarian interests in South Asia will gradually begin to enter the "hive mind" of regular editors and admins here at the English Wikipedia. Press coverage (by reliable sources) of the problem will help; it gets noticed by WP:The Signpost and offline Wikipedia criticism sites.
That paid editing will get much more pushback then.
If you kept a record of user accounts and diffs offline, it'll be well-received then.
You are playing the long game. Stay cool. Keep editing, albeit carefully. Use impeccable sourcing.
I've seen it with previous efforts by the Chinese, Saudi, Russian and other governments. Eventually these schemes get found out and the reaction is strongly negative. Wikipedians hate this stuff and quickly coalesce in reaction. Abusers and their backers are publicly embarrassed.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 19:11, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's hard to get paid as an editor when your missteps publicly embarrass your employer.
Some editors are playing a pretty good short/medium game and winning because the of the editors and IPs they're opposing aren't playing the long game and don't really know our rules.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 19:16, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
P.S., I know as a technical that fact some of those editors follow this talk page. A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 19:16, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also, remember in our interactions, I don't take or oppose your "side" editorially. "I'm friendly but not your friend". (I am sympathetic and certainly not your enemy).
Ultimately when I'm online here, my motivation is "what's good for Wikipedia and its readers"
I see a problem for us, hence my advice above.
Hang in there! Stay cool!
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 19:22, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As I have love for you lastly

O believers! If you are mindful of God, He will grant you a standard ˹to distinguish between right and wrong˺, absolve you of your sins, and forgive you. And Allah (God) is the Lord of infinite bounty.

— Al-Anfal:29

And whoever is mindful of God, He will make a way out for them, and provide for them from sources they could never imagine. And whoever puts their trust in God, then He ˹alone˺ is sufficient for them. Certainly God achieves His Will. God has already set a destiny for everything.... And whoever is mindful of God, He will make their matters easy for them.... And whoever is mindful of God, He will absolve them of their sins and reward them immensely.

— At-Talaq:2-5

In a right way, it is almost of hardship and toil, don't take much that you can not bear, but also don't be much careless that might make you deviated, and always rely on God, because surely He exists and helps for good. Lastly, love again. (talk) 19:49, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you!
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 19:57, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And lastly, as open, though not related to wikipedia stuff, I shall like to request you, you might go through or not, to study Islam, (I am inviting actually, I didn't want to miss that chance actually after having you a good heart) to study Islamic the scriptural refereces Quran and Hadith translations and scholars of the respective ( you can follow that), I wish something more good to be uncovered in front of you, I think you can try the way to find a more nearness to God as he wishes, actually, and to have yourself more bountiful to help yourself and others. Love again (sister or anything with life I don't know). May Allah (God) give you good rewards/returns (Zajakallah Khairan). (talk) 20:28, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This means a lot. I would respond more about my own beliefs but my need for anonymity (I real life concerns) and my role here as a sort of neutral referee and editor preclude this.
Remember: stay cool. Learn the rules. References. Civil. Long game!
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 20:34, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
you can study comparatively. That may help to. And thanks. (talk) 20:35, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Kalki Avatar DRV[edit]

You pinged me for the second DRV, which you said should speedily closed, but it had been speedily closed by Extraordinary Writ by the time I was editing. I agree that it should have been closed and that the second DRV was tendentious. I don't think that there is anything more for me to say. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:16, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 20:21, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I find your bullet style and signature formatting to be very difficult to follow. You should keep everything in one line as much as possible including your signature. Iterresise (talk) 05:23, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the feedback about my signature, Iterresise>
This is the first time I've heard this. If anybody else is following this page and has an opinion, feel free to opine. I'm open to more feedback.
I've been putting my sig on a separate line because it's long enough that it often wraps around and that's confusing, too. Perhaps the answer is to just change my sig.
I'll think it over. A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 15:02, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I just looked at my comment formatting at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 August 29#Population of cities - what a disgraceful mess. Thanks for pointing that out; I've cleaned it up. I'm sure others were annoyed, too.
I think some of that's personal, late night sloppiness on my part and even more, just the perversity of mobile editing. You don't always get to preview edits before making them - it depends on what you're editing. I have no idea why MediaWiki added <nowiki> tags but I've seen it do that once before.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 15:08, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Final comment: you've gotten a lot of negative feedback over this TfD. I suspect it's discouraging, given the hours you put into preparing your nomination (I saw all your sandbox work).
Hang in there!
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 15:11, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello, A. B.,

This is a belated thank you for the work you did, tracking down sources for this article. And for the work you do in all of the AFDs you participate in. I wish we could clone you and have a dozen more "A. B." to participate in deletion discussions but, alas, you are unique. I really pay attention to your comments even when consenus goes a different direction and appreciate how seriously and thoughfully you take your participation in the deletion process. Thanks again. Liz Read! Talk! 19:02, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you. This means so much.
That was so unpleasant and it really opened my eyes to big problems with sectarian editing on South Asian topics. I don't know what we as a community are going to do; it's a whole lot bigger than me.
Anyway, thanks so much. I admire your work, too. —A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 19:17, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And now I came across your comments on Talk:Michael Weinrath! You're even checking out sources and citations for PROD'd articles! You are really going above and beyond what we expect from an editor who is involved in the deletion processes on this project. You are correct there, we have a few editors/admins who are very knowledgeable about appropriate citation rates and credentials for academics but I don't think they pay much attention to Proposed deletions. But we don't get many professors who pass through PROD, they seem to go directly to AFD. PROD draws a lot of small towns and small companies, it seems, a few athletes and some technical hardware. Many thanks again. Liz Read! Talk! 21:01, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Mostly I work hard to be lazy. I try to "outsource" my work - see my comments at the "Quick question" thread above with Pbritti.
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 21:05, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


is not really a good reason to remove CSD tag. Besides, I wanted to see if anyone else thought it was "unambiguously promotional." Now I'll never know. 😜 -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:22, 9 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Pretty promotional, I’d say. Maybe notable? Don’t know. Left a comment on the talk page.
My desire to punish page spammers struggles with my desire to retain notable material.
As I noted to someone else above, I’m a deletionist at heart just double-checking the waste stream.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 20:51, 9 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Maritime pilots[edit]

Hi A. B., I saw your comment about maritime pilots at Greghenderson's talk page. Would you have time to look through the list at Template:List of Sea Captains and Pilots and see which of these people you think do meet notability requirements? I wondering if it is worth doing some kind of group AfD process on those that don't, but would appreciate your insights. Thanks Melcous (talk) 04:08, 10 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

When I get a chance in the next several hours to days.
As a general rule, I’m very wary of bundled AfDs - too many articles and then you get a fragmented discussion to keep some and delete others. I see these big-bundle AfDs go off the rails. I recommend no more than 3 articles at a time and I think they need to be very similar as to the merits of deletion. I recommend saying something about each article in your nomination.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 17:31, 11 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks A. B., appreciate your wisdom. I'm happy to hold off until you get a chance to have a look, thanks. Melcous (talk) 22:30, 11 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi - you've !voted twice on this one, the first time Delete and the second time Keep. Looking at what you've written I suspect the Delete should be struck, but I thought I'd check! Black Kite (talk) 12:30, 10 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Goodness. I'm so confused by the back and forthI bailed out after the 100 comment. Can I !vote to delete the AfD itself?
I'll take another look - it may be later today. I was feeling sympathetic but then there was so much bludgeoning.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 12:42, 10 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Black Kite, methinks they doth protest to much". After going through all that mess I struck my "keep".
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 12:55, 10 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for September 12[edit]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Solar Eclipse Maestro, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page SBIG.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:58, 12 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


@A. B.: Morning. scope_creepTalk 08:36, 12 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Good morning!
--A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 14:18, 12 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Books & Bytes – Issue 58[edit]

The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 58, July – August 2023

  • New partners - De Standaard and Duncker & Humblot
  • Tech tip: Filters
  • Wikimania presentation

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --14:26, 12 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think you may need to re-read the draft you declined the G11 on. This is written like it is meant to be on the programs brochures. It is 100% a promotional piece, I have a hard time seeing any sentence that isn't promotional. I don't want to waste more people's time in a MfD when it's such a clear cut G11. It may be notable but needs to completely re-written in a neutral factual tone based on reliable sources. McMatter (talk)/(contrib) 20:16, 12 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


@A. B.:, I appreciate you to study about Aqeedah, it will help you to learn a lot more, you can read resources from this, thanks. And can I ask you to give any link to contact you outside wikipedia? (talk) 04:04, 14 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think you can send a private email through Wikipedia via a link on my user talk page if you’re using the desktop view of the page.
This service may be limited to registered users.
I will not be able to see your email address. I will reply via the same Wikipedia system if you have a registered account.
I don’t wish to post my email publicly.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 04:15, 14 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@A. B.:, Sent. Please check. (talk) 05:08, 14 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
To protect my own privacy (you are, after all, a stranger), I will not reply to you using my personal email account or Facebook. I have already redacted your personal data (email address, Facebook page) and forwarded your emails to ArbCom via the process described at the top of the User:Arbitration Committee page.
A. B. (talkcontribsglobal count) 15:01, 15 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Signpost: 16 September 2023[edit]