User talk:Ac44ck

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Hello, Ac44ck, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome!  – Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 03:11, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Safeguards against "trolling for fun"[edit]

{{helpme}} One of the pages of interest to me, J. Vernon McGee, was made a target of what looks like trolling for fun. An editor made the comment "Tagging is fun, I know" on Talk:Barry_Cohen_(attorney).

Their "contribution" history here Special:Contributions/Mattisse suggests that they indulge quite a bit in this kind of "fun".

I have asked for clarification here: Wikipedia_talk:Neutral_point_of_view

But the amount of tagging activity that I see on that editor's "contribution" page seems excessive. And I suspect that it isn't the only case of such.

It occurs to me that it is _vandalism_ under the guise of "policy enforcement".

Is there a mechanism to curb this kind of "fun"? --Ac44ck 19:17, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, we must insist that you assume good faith while interacting with other editors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. VivioFateFan (Talk, Sandbox) 21:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Bad faith editing can include ... playing games with policies
Tagging scores of pages and noting that "Tagging is fun" would seem to be suggestive of "playing games with policies". Making one's first appearance on a page with a declaration akin to "I don't like what is here, but I'm not saying what would satisfy me. Oh, and someone else fix it." doesn't strike me as being particularly helpful. There's a saying that I like: "To criticize is to volunteer."
There are also these:
The article in question seems to fit most of the policy for self-published sources (negating that the "self" in question died nearly two decades ago) except "the article is not based primarily on such sources."
The article obviously could use improvement. That someone pointed it out is understandable. That no commitment to help accompanies a criticism (even to the extent of identifying one specific -- and significant -- item which might have planted the idea for tagging the article) makes it seem less "constructive".
Assuming that the tagger acted in good faith is what can make "trolling" so effective. Someone on a tagging spree for "fun" can create a lot of activity in their wake -- which is the goal of trolling. Finding evidence which suggests that the tagger was trolling seems like a violation of my assumption of good faith.
--Ac44ck 21:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
You can take it over to the Administrator's Noticeboard for Incidents if you believe they are toying with policy, which they are. This is a case, like you said, of vandalism disguised by policy enforcement. I totally agree with you - there are some times where assuming good faith makes things worse. The article in question, J. Vernon McGee, is definitely NOT an advert. NF24(radio me!Editor review) 23:38, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I posted twice on the article page as you requested I do[edit]

Hi! If you are talking about J. Vernon McGee, I did post it on the article page (as you requested) [1] where you requested I do so. Here:[2][3]
Here are the diffs. Mattisse 01:42, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Let's get a mediator[edit]

It is not your article and your opinion is not the only one. Anyone can add or subtract from it. Only unsourced material cannot be removed, unless you have a better source. Just because someone disagrees with you, does not mean they are wrong. Also, you are not supposed to remove a tag without fixing the problem. Why don't we get a third party opinion? Let's do that or get an informal mediator. How about it? Mattisse 02:15, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Time tracking[edit]

It does take up time, I know. I spent all day yesterday trying to find information on Barry Cohen who I know is a very notable, if not famous in his field, attorney. However, I could find hardly anything. I even went to the library today. Fortunately, another editor cleaned the article up, took out a lot of stuff that should not have been there in the first place, and the article is much better now. That other editor had a clearer perspective than I did.

I truly apologize for upsetting you. But tags are not a problem. If someone were trying to delete it, now that would be a problem. Many stellar articles on Wikipedia have tags on them. And, as I said to you somewhere else, I tag my own articles rather often. Sincerely, Mattisse 03:00, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I see issues to be addressed in the article[edit]

I feel that the tag issue needs to be addressed. You seem to feel that because you "see nothing specific to be addressed", that means I am not allowed to address issues in the article that I see. You are acting as if you WP:OWN. That is a problem. The fact that you see nothing to be addressed, when you are disputing with me, is also a problem, as it is not up to you to determine whether issues need to be address or not. If you do not want an informal mediation or third party opinion, then we can move up to Dispute Resolution. Mattisse 03:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


If you have a question regarding the information in the article, plase address it on the Discussion page. Kilmer-san (talk) 05:45, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Help: versus Help talk: versus WP:Help Desk[edit]


Help:Show preview is part of the documentation for the mediawiki software, especially for wikipedia. Your question was signed, and appeared to be asking for help. Some people do this on Help talk:Show preview, though that page is theoretically for discussing how to improve Help:Show preview. One of your comments seemed to indicate you thought Help:Show preview was a talk page, but the talk page is Help talk:Show preview.

For actually getting help using wikipedia, the standard place is the help desk. It is odd for someone to copy a help request there for someone who asked elsewhere, since how would the asker know to look there. Instead, I just tried to give a short answer in the edit summary.

If you want to get a feature added to the mediawiki software, then the village pump is generally a good place to start.

Personally, I think my workaround is barely useful, so I didn't add it to the help page. If you figured out a way to phrase it to be helpful, then consider editing Help:Show preview (as a piece of documentation). If you think you've *really* got a good solution, then actually put it at m:Help:Show preview (the "master copy"). If you just think someone should, then you can suggest it at Help talk:Show preview, but there are not enough help page writers to ensure it will get done in a timely fashion.

I tend to use {{citation}} and {{harv}} which sticks the bibliographic info at the end (in the references section), both for editting and for preview, and handles the actual referring to the references in the section where the referral is. Since {{harv}} takes short and meaningful arguments, you *usually* aren't worried about getting it wrong.

Since the edit summary is awfully short: my work-around is just to add a <references/> tag to the bottom of the section you are editing right before you preview, and remove it right before you save. One could write some javascript to do this, but I think it is probably a little too fragile: people would be adding extra references tags willy-nilly. This is true whether or not some program is handling it, so I think my idea is pretty poor.

At any rate, hopefully this clears up the "misplaced" part -- help page is for answers, not questions, but feel free to ask on Help talk:Show preview, WP:Help desk, or WP:Village pump (technical), or write up your nice answer on Help:Show preview. JackSchmidt (talk) 02:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I changed it to an observation. Maybe I'll try to write up the work-around later. For now, others who are similarly puzzled by the omission in the behavior of "show preview" will know that they are not alone in wondering why their new references don't appear in the preview.
> One of your comments seemed to indicate you thought Help:Show preview was a talk page, but the talk page is Help talk:Show preview.
Indeed. I'm not sure how the question ended up on the "help" page instead of the "talk" page.
Thanks. -Ac44ck (talk) 04:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Tropical rock[edit]

Thanks for unraveling the effort to swap the Trop Rock and Tropical rock article names. I don't know why it resulted in a name-space conflict. I thought the name would be available after I renamed the article to a temporary name, but the system didn't seem to release the name as I expected it to. It's okay now. I'll try to nominate the two temporary pages that I made for deletion. - Ac44ck (talk) 07:25, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


When you nominate redirects for deletion, please use WP:RFD instead of WP:AFD. I've closed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tropical rock - to be swapped with Trop Rock as being in the wrong forum and have listed it at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2008 November 16. Cheers, Cunard (talk) 07:59, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I think those redirects might meet CSD R3. I've tagged them as such. Cunard (talk) 08:09, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I fixed it[edit]

Hi, Ac44ck. I know what you were trying to do - create a temporary holding place and swap them - but wikipedia automatically retains the old article title as a redirect.

If you want to move over a redirect, which is what it's known as, you can go to WP:RM, or just ask an administrator.

Anyway, I've fixed it. Thanks for helping wikipedia, and I trust that you'll continue to contribute. - Richard Cavell (talk) 08:16, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry. I'm a computer programmer too, and so I saw straight away what you were trying to do, and that it was in good faith. - Richard Cavell (talk) 09:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Article moved to WP namespace[edit]


Is the Bible citation article in danger of being deleted?

The Bible citation was moved to the WP namespace without prior discussion. A 'proposed' tag was added about the same time. I removed the tag because I wasn't aware that the article was (or was being) moved to a different namespace.

I read here


A rejected page is any proposal for which consensus for acceptance is not present after a reasonable time period, for which consensus is unclear after a reasonable time period for discussion regardless of whether there is active discussion or not, or where discussion has substantially died out without reaching consensus.

The editor who moved the page didn't add any comments to the article's discussion page. Their discussion on the issue here


hasn't been especially engaging.

My expectation is that there will be little, if any, discussion about the "proposal" and the page might be deleted for "lack of interest".

Shouldn't a page be moved to the WP namespace only _after_ has been adopted as a guideline, etc.?

What to do now?

Thanks. - Ac44ck (talk) 20:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

It _was_ an article before it was moved. It isn't an article _now_. And now it may exist in a realm of rules that I am unaware of. What are the consequences of the content being moved to a different namespace? -Ac44ck (talk) 20:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Weird. If you don't think it belongs in Wikipedia space, you can take it to WP:MFD. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshellsOtter chirpsHELP) 20:41, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Anything that begins with "Wikipedia:" should go to MFD as it's in project space, not article space. I was just a little confused because it was off on its own and not in article space or something. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshellsOtter chirpsHELP) 23:44, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

NowCommons: File:Vector-valued function-2.png[edit]

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You know... that helped a lot with that simple external link. ... length, mass, time, electric current, temperature, amount of substance, luminous intensity. All things I've "known" about but never cared to include (all) when analyzing a substance. I know I'm coming off as a moron, but please... Someone uneducated must learn everything for the first time, and you have just opened my eyes. Thanks a million. Robert M Johnson (talk) 09:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Avocado's Number = # of molecules in guaca-MOLE[edit]

Hey - just wanted to say thanks for the nice solution re: anachronistically! Luminifer (talk) 16:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


{{talkback}}   Set Sail For The Seven Seas  196° 47' 45" NET   13:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

{{talkback}}   Set Sail For The Seven Seas  342° 15' 45" NET   22:49, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

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  Set Sail For The Seven Seas  302° 15' 30" NET   20:09, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

India claim[edit]

YES indeed, a 'Consensus' was reached with user : Strebe not agreeing with you, somebody else asking clarification and the Greek nationalist Athenean duly supporting you. Pls provide the EXACT word sphere as used by any Greek in the citation you have provided for the Greek claim or else I assure you the Greek claim is going to find its way out along with the Indian one. You demand the exact word spherical be mentioned in the Indian citation and yet you do not place such a requirement for the Greek one. Who b.t.w is Dicks, never heard of him, why is he considered so great? I know why.

I am in NY now but growing up in India, and having read and watched the mega-series on TV upon the youngest and the most famous of our Epics - the Mahabharata, the fact that the earth and all planets and celestial bodies were spherical was such a mundane and simple fact to the then people. When Lord Krishna, before the central war of the epic, shows the entire Universe within himself to Arjuna, during his exposition of the Gita, all planets and stars are shown as spherical. Prior to that in his childhood Krishna shows the entire Cosmos in his mouth to his mother, who sees the spherical earth and then that magnifies down to her staring at her son's mouth so that even a village housewife appears to know that the earth was spherical. Of course the Western version would be that the 'sphericality ' was added later but I can assure you the Mahabharata is in all probability at least 5000 years old. Texts that date back to 1000 BC, according to even Western scholars state that the ratio of the radii of the Sun to the Earth to the Moon is around 108 each, which is in perfect agreement with the respective measurements by modern science. But am sure I am Hinduic or New Age to you and all this is falling on deaf ears. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:42, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

-Ac44ck (talk) 05:10, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Re: Follow-through on User:Octane/improvement[edit]

That was three years ago. :/ I really have no idea what the context was any more. Octane [improve me?] 25.08.10 0552 (UTC)

What was the point of this post to my talk page?
First, my post to your page was in February 2010, not three years ago.
Second, I linked to what I was talking about. It is now here:
You asked for help, figured out what you needed, and couldn't be bothered to fix your typo on the talk page.
Pretty simple. And spelled out on your talk page:
Were you not expecting someone to help find the error? Now that you found it, please help others to avoid it.
How is the context not clear? -Ac44ck (talk) 17:16, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Geographic coordinate system[edit]

Look folk- this page is far to active for me to edit- I am just watching- the text is being stuck together like a chocolate chip cookie it needs overview. I have flagged the problem- I assume that you have now taken ownership. Thank you. --ClemRutter (talk) 19:08, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

There is only one "folk" watching this page. If you want to address a more general audience, do it elsewhere.
I neither take ownership nor accept delegation of your perceived problems. Your method of communicating the problems was inappropriate. Article space is not a repository for comments. If you have comments concerning a particular article, put them on the article's talk page -- not here. Better yet, if you see a problem, fix it. - Ac44ck (talk) 22:05, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

re: Darcy–Weisbach equation[edit]

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File:Extended twilight.png missing description details[edit]

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User:Harrell Geron and original research now at ANI[edit]

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ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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