User talk:Akerbeltz

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Winging it[edit]

A happy festive season to you. Foolishly I am wasting my holidays in chasing references for the Skye FAC. One I am missing is re the etymology "but no definitive solution has been found to date and the placename may be from a substratum language and simply opaque." referenced to Oftedal, M. (1956) "The Gaelic of Leurbost, Isle of Lewis." In A Linguistic Survey of the Gaelic Dialects of Scotland. Supplementary volume. Norsk Tidskrift for Sprogvidenskap. Oslo. H. Aschehoug. A. I had assumed this was a relatively short supplement but I can see no sign of any page ranges on Google books. If you have a page no. to hand I'd appreciate it. If not I can find another reference easily enough. Ben MacDui 12:00, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

And a guid Hogmanay to you too! Sorry for the delay, been trying to stay away from the screen a bit. I had a look but can't remember off the top of my head where he says that. I saw you used another ref for now - if I do find it, I'll add it back with a page ref. Akerbeltz (talk) 14:50, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
OK and many thanks. Ben MacDui 15:38, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

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Juan Sebastián Elcano[edit]

Hi. This publication is not a historical biography about Juan Sebastian Elcano, but a travel guide about Bilbao and the Basque Country. Please find an appropriate reference to the matter at hand. Thanks, --Bashevis6920 (talk) 18:41, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

A publication does not have to be specifically about a topic to qualify as a source. Please familiarise yourself more with the use of sources before "pouncing in". Akerbeltz (talk) 18:42, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia is very clear about this, any exceptional claim requires multiple high-quality sources (WP:EXCEPTIONAL), and discuss the ethnic component, it is.--Bashevis6920 (talk) 18:58, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Except this is not an exceptional claim. No one is saying he's Martian... he was born Basque, get over it. Akerbeltz (talk) 19:44, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

No, sorry, it's very different to say that someone was born in the Basque Country, to say that someone is an ethnic Basque, something that has not even been convincingly shown to exist. --Bashevis6920 (talk) 19:49, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry but to say the Basques as an ethnicity do not exist is so totally a Fringe that the onus is on you to prove you're right, not on me to prove your nuts. Akerbeltz (talk) 20:30, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


I did not see that you were reverting vandalism and blocked you in error. My mistake was pointed out to me and I apologize to you for that. I have memorialized my error in your block log as well. I'll keep an eye out for any autoblock. Again, my apologies. Toddst1 (talk) 16:55, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Hey that's ok, no worries, stuff like that happens. Thanks for fixing it so quickly! Akerbeltz (talk) 17:38, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Whatever you do, please do not continue the dispute on their talkpage - right now that would be the equivalent of poking a sleeping bear, especially when they're currently blocked (✉→BWilkins←✎) 17:55, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, won't happen again! Akerbeltz (talk) 18:02, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

New Zealand, United States, Australia - Scottish Gaelic Native Communities[edit]

I think this is worthy of some debate, although I am ill-placed and ill-prepared to do so. According to the 2007 American Community survey, roughly 1,445 people speak Scottish Gaelic at home. Though that is a miniscule number when compared with the overall population of America, that is still very significant when compared with the numbers of people speaking Gaelic at home in Scotland. However, it seems that the study did not show whether or not those speakers were concentrated in one particular area or spread across the whole of the country. I do understand that by "native" you mean areas where there are communities in which Gaelic is still spoken, Canada being one such place. I am not familiar enough with the USA or New Zealand or Australia to debate that with you, although I am sure there are experts on Wikipedia who would.

Perhaps the issue is that Scottish Gaelic was once native to Australia, the United States and New Zealand - flourishing Scottish Gaelic speaking communities existed in all three - but they have recently declined to the point that they are no longer spoken. By removing United States, New Zealand and Australia from the "native" countries section on those grounds, could we say that Gaelic is not native to Perthshire?

-- (talk) 19:36, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, it's slightly different with countries where the language was indigenous to begin with but to get back to the point, it's a bit of a grey area I'd say but it doesn't hinge so much on the number of the the type and distribution - as in, are these even vaguely coherent communities or are they just (a lot) of isolated learners. In the case of Canada, there are still, however weak they may be, coherent communities (say in Nova Scotia) where if you say "Gaelic" even non-speakers will recognize the relevance of the language to the place/history. There are no such communities left in the US, Australia or NZ as far as we know, though Irish is in pockets in the US.

Or to put it the other way round, if a lot of people in New York decided to learn Aynu, would that qualify New York for an inclusion on the Aynu language page? Akerbeltz (talk) 23:22, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Good point, but I am certain if you mention "Gaelic" to people in areas in which Gaelic was spoken commonly up to 40-50 years ago (there are many such places in the USA, Australia and New Zealand) they would know exactly what you meant and recognise its relevance. They would probably acknowledge that it is extinct there, of course.
It would be good if there was a way to show the original extent of Gaelic, perhaps as a sub heading i.e. "Former Native Areas" or something.

-- (talk) 18:06, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Which raises the annoying (not your fault of course) question of when is an immigrant language ever a native language? But yes, it would be an interesting map to show where in the world coherent Gaelic communities existed - I would probably pick a date that's 1-2 generations removed from the last major clearances. Nova Scotia certainly... but I'm not sure where else there would have been enough of a base for actual communities (similar to French in Quebec say or Mennonite German). But I don't have time. Akerbeltz (talk) 18:52, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, I can tell you there were significant Scottish Gaelic speaking settlements (i.e. of the significance you are thinking of) roughly at that time in Cape Breton, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Ontario, Mainland Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Quebec, North Carolina, allegedly parts of Upstate New York, Southern parts of New Zealand (including an entire settlement founded by Cape Breton Gaels) and places in Australia that I'm not so certain about.

-- (talk) 22:50, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Gaelic IPA of Baile Ùr na Maoirne[edit]

Hey Akerbeltz, since you were kind enough to go the Gaelic IPA for Giffnock for me a while back, I wonder if you'd be able to take a look at Newton Mearns and put that one in also. Thanks! Cabe6403 (TalkSign) 07:48, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Done! Akerbeltz (talk) 10:39, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Hello once more, if you get a chance would you be able to do the Gaelic IPA for Clarkston, East Renfrewshire. Much appreciated Cabe6403 (TalkSign) 08:33, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

The new name of the article "List of Lehendakaris"[edit]

Kaixo, Akerbeltz. As you are an active contributor to Basque subjects in the English Wikipedia, I've thought that you may want to give your opinion on this. Ondo izan. --Xabier Armendaritz(talk) 20:12, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Zuzenketagatik eskertza[edit]

Egunon Akerbeltz eta barka erantzun honen atzerapena, denbora faltak eragin du. Onartzen dut eta eskertzen dizut martxoaren 24an "Basque people" artikuluko "History" atalean nik idatzitakoari egin zenion zuzenketa. Aitortzen dut Euskal Herriakiko maitasunak itsutu ninduela; etorkizunean zuzen eta egoki izaten saituko naiz.

Baita arrazoi oso aitortzen dizut ekarpenetan erreferentzirik adierazi behar dela oroitarazten didazunean.

Aitzitik, ene ekarpenari esleitu diozun "propaganda" izendapena ez dut erabat egoki irizten. Gogoan har pentsamendu eta sentimendu politikotan legeak, ofizialtasunak, derrigorrak azken finean, duten eragina. Pentsa, adibidez, egun ofizialki "Nafarroa"-tzat gogartzen dena indarkeriz menperatutako nafar erresumako azken zati penintsularra baino ez dela. Euskal Herriko historia luzeak geure kabuz pentsatzeko eta sentitzeko eskubide, behar eta betekizun eskaintzen eta eskatzen digula uste dut, zentzuz eta neurriz, noski.

Izan untsa.

--EnekoGotzon (talk) 11:43, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Kaixo laguna! Lasai atzerapenagatik, ni ere lanpetuta nabil.
Hau gai nahiko korapilatsua dela eta bi aldean amozio asko ta argumenta gutxi entzuten dira askotan eta hemen saiatzen ari gara emozioak uzteko eta "facts" biltzeko eta oro har nahiko ondo moldatzen ari gara, beste Wiki ta komunikabide gonparatuta. Adibidez, orain dela gutxi editore hau blokeatu dute adminek, Euskaldunak ta Katalaniarrak etnia ez direla idazteagatik behin ta berriro. Hori ez zen egoki bain, bide berean, idatzi duzuna (hau adibidez The French Republic does not recognize any legitimacy to the Basque people.) ere ez zen egokia. Frantziako errepublikak ez du inoiz esan Euskaldunak ez direla eta adierazteko modua oso ... emozionala zen (ta erreferentziak gabe gainera). Horrelakorik Frantziako gobernua esan balu, hobe zenuke horrela jartzeko On May 15 1997 the French Government voted against a motion to establish a unified Departement du Pays Basque as a unitary authority, causing condemnation from Basque cultural groups accusing them of ignoring the rights of the Basques as an ethnic group (erreferentzia bat edo biekin). Adibidez. Neutrala, emoziorik gabe. Gainera, Politics atalean ia hori adierazten da: The Northern Basque Country today does not exist as a formal political entity and is officially simply part of the French department of Pyrénées Atlantiques, centered in Béarn. In recent years the number of mayors of the region supporting the creation of a separate Basque department has grown to 63,87%.[35] So far, their attempts have been unsuccessful.
Wikipedia ez da PPen adarra baina ez HBaren ere :) Akerbeltz (talk) 13:04, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library![edit]

World Digital Library Wikipedia Partnership - We need you!
Hi Akerbeltz! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the World Digital Library, a project of the Library of Congress and UNESCO. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Wikipedia using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Multilingual editors are welcome! (But being multilingual is not a requirement.) Please sign up to participate here. Thanks for editing Wikipedia and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 22:20, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Native peoples of the world[edit]

  • I now have the three volumes in front of me and they are not fake. It is in fact a high quality topical encyclopedia with articles written by topic experts. This is the kind of tertiary source that is very useful as a source on wikipedia. Basques are covered in volume 2 pages 265-267.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:57, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Thank you. Seems like I was wrong. If I can find the time, I'll self revert some of the ones I took out. Akerbeltz (talk) 18:10, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Garagardoa maite bai?:)[edit]

Kaixo Akerbeltz, uda ongi? Hope you are doing well. I went to Donibane Lohizune on a daytrip last month, and as I sat at a café I came across this colourful beer with a great design, happens to be Akerbeltz, he he. It tasted good as far as I remember, ever tried it??? Anyway, I decided to take a picture and here you are. Feel free to use or modify it! Iñaki LL (talk) 22:31, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Kaixo Iñaki! Bai, 2012 baino askoz hobe aurten. I've heard of this beer but not actually seen or tried it - it's on my to do list for next time I'm in Iparralde, so thanks for the nice pic and the reminder! Zu ere ondo zaudela espero dut. Akerbeltz (talk) 10:19, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Hey Akerbeltz, ez horregatik, pozten naiz gauzak ondo doazkizula! I think I will be around for a while in Donostia, so feel free to contact me and chat over an Akerbeltz if you happen to be around:) Iñaki LL (talk) 21:02, 31 August 2013 (UTC)


Hi Akerbeltz, there seem to be errors in this table, in NOR-NORK Conditional section (for example, it should be zintuzketedan instead of zintuztekedan according to Euskaltzaindia's rules) and I don't know how to fix it. --Adnyre (talk) 13:59, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Kaixo. I'm not home just now but I'll check it out when I get home. Just that one or did you spot any others? Akerbeltz (talk) 22:28, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
1) In all 3 sections the 3rd person plural suffux (NORK) is E while it probably should be TE; 2) the 2nd person plural suffix TE goes after the potential marker KE, not before it and 3) TU+KE becomes TUZKE. There's also a typo in the indicative past section where it is genuan instead of genuen.--Adnyre (talk) 08:40, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
I've fixed genuan > genuen (after a minor "episode" because I did this in Publisher originally, fortunately it turns out that LibreOffice opens a shedload of legacy formats, including Publisher). Come to think of it, maybe I should upload the .odg file too. Anyway, I can't spot the others - could you maybe donwload the graphic, circle the wrong forms and email it to me? Just google akerbeltz and any page that has some reference to Gaelic is me, so any of those email addresses will work. Cheers. Akerbeltz (talk) 22:29, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Ok, I've uploaded the version as it is now and attributed your help in the log, many thanks for spotting these, letter me know and helping improve the graphic! Akerbeltz (talk) 17:34, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

For ane speaker of the Englishe and Erische leid[edit]

SpecialBarnstar.png The Special Barnstar
The Description just made it to FL - it couldn't have happened without your help and enthusiasm. Ben MacDui 10:27, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Hey that's great news, well done you too! Any time! Akerbeltz (talk) 12:13, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Duchy of Vasconia/Gascony[edit]

Kaixo Akerbeltz, hope you are doing well! I know history is not your field but Basque is. I thought you would be interested in an ongoing discussion at the Duchy of Gascony that is affecting the pillars of contribution to any wikipedia article. Goraintzi Iñaki LL (talk) 11:09, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Kaixo Iñaki! Sentitzen dut baina ia ezer ez dakit gai horri buruz, ez dakit zer esan edo iradoki han. Akerbeltz (talk) 12:12, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Kaixo jauna, it was actually about basics in the wikipedia contribution but who knows, sometimes you see very baffling things, you know. No worries, admittedly there was quite a lot of text to read. Matters came back to normal, so it's fine. Urte berri (wikipedi) on! Iñaki LL (talk) 18:28, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

basque country[edit]

the basque country page is the page of an spanish autonomous community, and an european union region. for anything else you would wish, use a personal notebook. -- (talk) 23:01, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

In spanish, "País Vasco" refers to Basque Country (autonomous community), and not the Basque Country (greater region), which is called in spanish "Vasconia" (which means as "The land of the Basques"). The Basque Country (greater region) is not a recognized political entity by any country, and therefore is called as "Vasconia" (Land of the Basques) and not "País Vasco" (Basque Country). --Tximitx (talk) 12:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
In a perfect world there would be such a clear distinction but the reality is that País Vasco is as vague a term as Pais Basque or Basque Country - it can mean either the EAE, Iparralde or the whole thing depending on who's talking. It explains that in the article on the greater region somewhere, perhaps we should copy that section. Akerbeltz (talk) 12:45, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
that supposed "greater region" is something that doesn´t exist appart from in a concrete ideology. This is not a notebook, if you want to promote personal ideas, this is not the place. In the same way, every spanish region has the same structure of presentation, to make wikipedia cohesion. The same happens with every state of the european union, or every state of USA etc. That´s why, when you change that map to a different one than all the others, you are making and objective mistake. -- (talk) 20:09, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

"País Vasco" and "Vasconia"[edit]

Hello Akerbeltz. Although outside Spain Basque Country (greater region), by confusion, is known as "País Vasco", that does not mean it's right. Basque Country (greater region) (Euskal Herria or Vasconia; literally "land of the Basques (people)" or "land of the Basque (language)") is a historical and cultural entity that spans multiple regions of Spain and France, while Basque Country (autonomous community) (Euskal Autonomia Erkidegoa or País Vasco) is a Spanish region with political recognition. The Basque Studies Society, "Vasconia" used to refer to Basque Country (greater region) and País Vasco to refer to Basque Country (autonomous community), because they are different denominations. Simply perform a search on your webpage "Vasconia" term. --Tximitx (talk) 12:36, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree that clear usage would be nice but please remember Wikipedia isn't prescriptive in that sense, as an encyclopedia shouldn't be. For example, technically the Republic of Macedonia is known FYROM but the page still is under Republic of Macedonia on Wikipedia because that is the de-facto usage, even if technically that is not correct. I think it's WP:COMMON or something. So similarly, because on the whole Vasconia, however right or wrong. is not in general usage, it should not have undue prominence on Wikipedia. De fact, Páis Vasco AND Basque Country are very ambiguous terms which, unfortunately, are also the predominant terms. Akerbeltz (talk) 15:58, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
Basque country (greater region) is a shame of article. It is an article of something that doesn´t exist, but that want to be promoted for an ideology. It is ok to say: "this is the project of some people having X ideology", but not having an article here. It is something about basque nationalism, like iberism. Iberia is not anything but a project of some people. The Basque Country is and only is an autonomous region of spain. That´s all. -- (talk) 20:13, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Go away and take your irrational hatred somewhere else please. Akerbeltz (talk) 20:38, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
The truth is not irrational. You confuse your wishes with reallity. The basque country is no more and no less than an spanish autonomous community. For other nationalistic believes, you have the page "basque nationalism". It is an ideology, which means some people think that would be a good project and some not. But it is not something real nowdays. -- (talk) 20:45, 23 January 2014 (UTC)


Hey Akerbeltz,

Could you maybe add your ref(s) to your Basque dialect articles? At least a general one. They're a good fraction of the remaining completely unref'd language articles. — kwami (talk) 12:43, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I created Roncalese dialect. It looks nice, for a stub, but it could be fleshed out a bit. — kwami (talk) 22:40, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

I'll see if I can find time - I didn't actually create the subdialect pages but thanks for headsup. Akerbeltz (talk) 12:20, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

A Barnstar For You![edit]

BoNM Basque Country Hires.png Basque Barnstar of National Merit
I believe you deserve this for your hard work contributing to Basque-related articles. Even though you aren't as active anymore, I appreciate your work! Cheers, Original European (talk) 09:22, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
I celebrate this long-deserved reward. As far as I know, Akerbeltz is the person who has contributed most to making the Basque-related articles in the English Wikipedia more accurate and complete. Eskerrik asko, Akerbeltz! --Xabier Armendaritz(talk) 11:00, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Aww, eskerrik asko/thanks! :) Akerbeltz (talk) 13:41, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Lac Leaman[edit]

'Rubbish' is a bit hard. Richens was Director of the Commonwealth Bureau of Plant Breeding and Genetics at Cambridge; one would have hoped he knew what he was talking about. Surely Lake of the Elms could stand as a possible interpretation? Regards, Ptelea (talk) 12:19, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure he knew his plants but the Gaelic is so desperately wrong it cannot even be a possible. 'Lac' is and never was a Gaelic word (though I'm sure he means 'Loch') and if he or his source cannot get right even such a basic term, how can one have confidence in the rest of it?
That aside, though you may brand this as OR, even when 'leamhan' was written 'leaman' (middle or old Irish) the sound value was still /v/ and it is nigh on impossible under the rules of sound development to derive modern Laomainn from that form, never mind accounting for the change from /ʎ/ in leamhan to /l̪ˠ/ in Laomainn. Akerbeltz (talk) 16:41, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Thought you might be interested in this other source, found in Henry & Elwes (1913) Trees of Great Britain and Ireland '...names of places, derived from U. montana (U. glabra) in Britain and Ireland', quoting from Sir Herbert Maxwell's Scottish Land Names (1894): The old Gaelic name for it was leam (lam), plural, leaman. Ptolemy's Leamanonius Lacus is now Loch Lomond, the lake of the elms, out of which flows the Leven, which is the aspirated form of leamhan (lavan); and it is interesting to find these two forms again side by side in Fife, where are the Lomond Hills overlooking the town of Leven. Ptelea (talk) 09:58, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. It's an interesting theory but to be honest, most of the time when specialist authors (like biologists) comment on linguistics, it often violates the most basic tenets of linguistics/etymology - even if their credentials in botany are impeccable. In many cases, you can actually trace copy-paste errors through various books but only rarely do they check with a linguist and once an error is in print, it just propagates.
Sir Maxwell first misquotes the attested form, which is actually lem(h), his pronunciation guides are wildly off and I can actually not find an instance of Ptolemy talking about Leamanonius Lacus.
The AAA (the Gaelic place name body) ventures no opinion on its etymology which usually means it cannot be said for certain. In any case, any etymology of Laomainn would have to account for the -nn (as opposed to -n in Leven) which are phonetically and etymologically distinct. In modern Gaelic it is very often the result of the well attested and common shift from -nt- > -nn- (cf the English form Lomond). If I had to venture a guess, a connection to the surname (ultimately from Norse Logmaðr) is a much more likely derivation (with Clan Lamont being strong around Cowal, a stone's throw from LL) as it fits the phonetic outcome to a tee (-og- would result in /ɤː/ which can be written as -agh- or -ao-, and the maðr with cross infection from a form containing -n- would yield nn, with the genitive palatalising it to -inn). Akerbeltz (talk) 12:17, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

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Help request[edit]

Hi! I seem to recall that you are a speaker of Euskara. Could I ask for a small bit of advice? The eu.wikipedia article on the Asno de las Encartaciones is at "Enkarterriko asto", but almost everywhere else I find "Enkarterriko astoa" (obviously there will be a simple explanation for this, but I am too simple to know it). Which should I use as the altname in the article? Thanks, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:31, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Hiya. The -a is the absolutive ending so in the citation form of most words that is taken off (barring some exceptions where the -a is inherent in the root). Or in less geeky speak, the correct form to use is 'asto' 'donkey' because 'astoa' means 'the donkey'. Hope that helps. Akerbeltz (talk) 14:18, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Indeed it does, just what I wanted to know. Many thanks indeed. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:32, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Differences in words[edit]

"gu bràth adv For ever, ever (future time only)." From the reference you supplied. Murry1975 (talk) 23:09, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm not getting paid to give you a Gaelic lesson. If you don't know how Gaelic forms adverbs, kindly find another page to troll. Akerbeltz (talk) 02:38, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
The link you gsve actually confirms for ever, I am not getting paid to give you a competency test or a reading lesson, nor a scottish one. BTW WP:NPA dont call me a troll or vandal. If you can show a use of gu brath meaninf til judgement, do otherwise I will use the one you gave. Murry1975 (talk) 02:49, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Then pick whatever label you feel fits someone who knows jack about a particular language yet insists he's in a position to over-rule experts even if they can back up their facts. Perhaps you'd care to review Dwelly's entry on bràth [1]. Your Irish may be the beez neez but this is Scottish Gaelic. Akerbeltz (talk) 03:40, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Reverted your edit[edit]

Hi, I noticed you reverted a change I made to the Scottish Gaelic article. You changed native to from "United Kingdom" to "Scotland", pointlessly. You gave the reason "it's the UK gov which is signatory to things like the European Charter for M Langs, not Sc Gov)". Of course, this is a large irrelevancy since it's still native to Scotland, which is a country, and therefore belongs best to the article to Scottish Gaelic. The state that recognizes the "signatory to things like the European Charter for M Langs" is, as I said, quite irrelevant. If it were to be managed by the EU, would you put European Union and not Scotland?

If you disagree, please explain.

This is the wrong place to debate this but the reason is that that category is for "Recognised minority language in" and ScG is a recongized minority language both at the UK and at the Scottish level so both countries are appropriate. For example, the Home Office recognizes Gaelic as fulfilling the language requirement for applying for citizenship. That is the UK level, not the Scottish level, even if the Scottish Parliament passed an act as to that end it woulnd't work because immigration is not a devolved issue. Akerbeltz (talk) 12:20, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Dailuaine distillery[edit]

Hi Akerbeltz,

I noticed this article cuz it triggered a template error. I don't know what the pron. is supposed to be, so I can't fix it. — kwami (talk) 01:59, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

In which case that was a really poor way of communicating that :b The English would be /dal'uənjə/ i.e. same as Gaelic but t̪ > d and ɲ > nj. So going by [2] what I had looked right, at least to me. No idea what or why it broke something. Akerbeltz (talk) 10:32, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

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Basque culture infobox[edit]

Kaixo Akerbeltz, ongi? I wanted to let you know that I have just created an infobox for Basque culture, but it is still well in need of improvement. You are a major contributor to Basque topics, so any input is appreciated, by adding relevant links, or adjusting/improving format. Izan untsa! Iñaki LL (talk) 21:38, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Language-population update project[edit]

Hi. The 18th edition of Ethnologue just came out, and if we divide up our language articles among us, it won't take long to update them. I would appreciate it if you could help out, even if it's just a few articles (5,000 articles is a lot for just me), but I won't be insulted if you delete this request.

A largely complete list of articles to be updated is at Category:Language articles citing Ethnologue 17. The priority articles are in Category:Language articles with old Ethnologue 17 speaker data. These are the 10% that have population figures at least 25 years old.

Probably 90% of the time, Ethnologue has not changed their figures between the 17th and 18th editions, so all we need to do is change "e17" to "e18" in the reference (ref) field of the language info box. That will change the citation for the artcle to the current edition. Please put the data in the proper fields, or the info box will flag it as needing editorial review. The other relevant fields are "speakers" (the number of native speakers in all countries), "date" (the date of the reference or census that Ethnologue uses, not the date of Ethnologue!), and sometimes "speakers2". Our convention has been to enter e.g. "1990 census" when a census is used, as other data can be much older than the publication date. Sometimes a citation elsewhere in the article depends on the e17 entry, in which case you will need to change "name=e17" to "name=e18" in the reference tag (assuming the 18th edition still supports the cited claim).

Remember, we want the *total* number of native speakers, which is often not the first figure given by Ethnologue. Sometimes the data is too incompatible to add together (e.g. a figure from the 1950s for one country, and a figure from 2006 for another), in which case it should be presented that way. That's one use for the "speakers2" field. If you're not sure, just ask, or skip that article.

Data should not be displayed with more than two, or at most three, significant figures. Sometimes it should be rounded off to just one significant figure, e.g. when some of the component data used by Ethnologue has been approximated with one figure (200,000, 3 million, etc.) and the other data has greater precision. For example, a figure of 200,000 for one country and 4,230 for another is really just 200,000 in total, as the 4,230 is within the margin of rounding off in the 200,000. If you want to retain the spurious precision of the number in Ethnologue, you might want to use the {{sigfig}} template. (First parameter in this template is for the data, second is for the number of figures to round it off to.)

Dates will often need to be a range of all the country data in the Ethnologue article. When entering the date range, I often ignore dates from countries that have only a few percent of the population, as often 10% or so of the population isn't even separately listed by Ethnologue and so is undated anyway.

If Ethnologue does not provide a date for the bulk of the population, just enter "no date" in the date field. But if the population figure is undated, and hasn't changed between the 17th & 18th editions of Ethnologue, please leave the ref field set to "e17", and maybe add a comment to keep it so that other editors don't change it. In cases like this, the edition of Ethnologue that the data first appeared in may be our only indication of how old it is. We still cite the 14th edition in a couple dozen articles, so our readers can see that the data is getting old.

The articles in the categories linked above are over 90% of the job. There are probably also articles that do not currently cite Ethnologue, but which we might want to update with the 18th edition. I'll need to generate another category to capture those, probably after most of the Ethnologue 17 citations are taken care of.

Jump in at the WP:LANG talk page if you have any comments or concerns. Thanks for any help you can give!

kwami (talk) 02:46, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Persian Romani[edit]

In case you're interested, Glottolog has added four Persian-Romani languages. I listed them at Para-Romani. — kwami (talk) 23:16, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

[oops, posted this yesterday & the 'save' didn't take] I'm wondering if it isn't more like that they're para-Domari. Isn't that what Iranian Gypsies are? Did Glottolog overlook the fact that Gypsy = Roma only works in Europe? — kwami (talk) 06:00, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Possibly but that might fall under OR, no? We could add a separate section with a comment. Akerbeltz (talk) 08:40, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

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Getting started as a contributor! thanks for the pat in the back, appreciate it!

Daemian79 (talk) 21:02, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

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User block notice - Three revert rule[edit]

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Irish IPA[edit]

Hi, had a look at your sandbox. Glad to help with Irish IPA but not sure what version we should go for. I'm sure you know there's three 'main' dialects, as well as the standard. The problem with the standard is that it's a standard for the written language, so no such thing as a standard pronunciation. I'll have a go, and you can change as you want. That's what sandboxes are for. The IPA I'm adding is best described as "Munster standard", so not going into specific differences within Munster Irish, but adding versions that all Munster speakers would find natural as recognize as Munster Irish (and all Irish speakers would recognize it as 'genuine' Irish). Jeppiz (talk) 22:23, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. Don't think it being Munster is an issue, we can add a note. Any other terms you think might be good to add? Was thinking of some past tense forms maybe? Akerbeltz (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Great! I'll think about a few other additions we could make. Speaking from an Irish Gaelic perspective, the noun 'codladh' would be much more natural. We rarely use 'codail' in Irish, if anyone intended to say she's sleeping said 'codlaíonn sí' (instead of 'tá sí ina codladh'), it would immediately indicate that the person doesn't speak much Irish. So while the word exists, it's use is very much restricted. I don't think I exaggerate if I say I've heard 'codladh' 100 times for every 1 time I've heard 'codail'. Jeppiz (talk) 22:35, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Yup, same here... I guess I added it because it was on the Swadesh list but there's no reason we have to stick to it. We can change that to the verbal noun sure enough. Akerbeltz (talk) 23:35, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

November 2015[edit]

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Edit warring notice[edit]

This is not obvious vandalism. A content dispute would seem a better description. 3RR is a bright line. See wp:3RR you have been around long enough to knowDo not edit war even if you believe you are right. Determining who is correct can be difficult and is disruptive. Take it to talk and report the person to wp:AN3 if they continue. Jim1138 (talk) 23:41, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Do you have any idea how many map warriors we get breezing through on a regular basis on those Spain pages? Our fingers would start bleeding from reporting them. I honestly don't care, block me. There are good reasons why I'm doing little on the English wiki these days and this is one of them. Akerbeltz (talk) 01:28, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

I need help with.[edit]


I know this is wikipedia in English, but the article in wikipedia in Spanish have lost their heads and not put not even the basic tab. I ask for help to see if anyone can contact them to see reason. There is an awful adictadurav in Spain including wikipedia in Spanish. We are already desperate because you can not write anything because everything cleared. I am forced to ask for help from wikipedia in English to be the strongest . Oh, and they have also blocked the discussion area ; is incredible — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:11, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Greetings and sorry for my English that is obsolete.-- (talk) 18:24, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Eskerrik asko. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:56, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Kaixo! First, I'm not entirely sure what specifically you're asking but I'm rarely active on the Spanish Wikipedia, both because my Spanish is non-existent and because editing Basque topics on the Spanish Wikipedia is very frustrating, there are too many people pushing a todo por la patria agenda. Sorry. Akerbeltz (talk) 11:05, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for answering. There is much fascist in Spain. It is true , it is very frustrating trying to collaborate on wikipedia in Spanish. People in Spain is very fascist and very closed. Just accept that everything is Spain and nothing else. I ask for help Wikipedia in English for the article " Low Navarre " because they have broken, and not make reasons ; and other wikipedias step give them a touch of attention to see if you start to change something ... I do not speak good English , but if Euskara ... Agur bero bat.

Reference errors on 26 June[edit]

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Basque and Vasconic[edit]

Hi, I noticed your significant contributions to Basque, Vasconic and Iberian Language group. Are you Basque? AN expert? Can you explain to me, why Basque posesses, what they call "free word order"? What exactly is free word order? What does this mean? Thank-you. Machtinstinkt (talk) 13:12, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi. No, I'm not Basque but I have studied and learned the language. Free word order, well... what that means is that you can move different parts of a sentence around to a large degree and the sentence largely still means the same thing. Take English "The man eats the chicken". That means one thing. If you switch the word order, it means something entirely different: "The chicken eats the man". That is because English relies largely on word order to mark Subject and Object, having lost most case markings. In languages like Basque which clearly mark Subject and Object, because the ending marks either clearly, you can shift them around without changing the meaning massively. So in a sentence like "Man-ak chicken-a eat" where -ak marks the subject and -a the Object, even if you said "Chicken-a man-ak eat", you still know it's the man who's doing the eating, not the chicken. English has vestiges of this: I see him vs Him I see has "free word order" in that sense too because in a sentence with he and him, you always know who is the object (him), so the other one has to be the subject.
Note that "free" isn't usually the same as "random" or "100% free". There are usually some constraints and if you deviate from the most common order, then usually there is some force behind it i.e. the focus changes slightly, so if you move something that is normally at the end right to the front, it often works as a flag saying "oy, this bit here, pay more attention to it". Like "him I see" sounding fancier than the usual "I see him".
Make sense? Akerbeltz (talk) 16:20, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks very much, very well explained -- I had thought so - that this was what free word order was totally about. On a website about anthropology, I was banned for stating almost the same explanation as you have here, because apparently, what I was saying "made no sense". (But, I guess this was pure Moderator jealousy?) Thanks again. -- Machtinstinkt (talk) 17:36, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome! Yeah, the rifts between linguists and archeologists/anthropologists at times makes me feel a bit like Gandalf who said that If all the grievances that stand between Elves and Dwarves are to be brought up here, we may as well abandon this Council :) Akerbeltz (talk) 18:39, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

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Feedback requested[edit]

Hi Akerbeltz, I’m looking for feedback on a proposed title that reflects the now-agreed-upon scope at Talk:Parts of a sail#Resolution?, where I asked:

Then how does Sail components sound? It begins with Sail and we're really talking about the constituent components of a sail. It's also two words to the current title's four. The lead could be, "Sail components include the features that define sail shape and function, plus its constituent parts from which it is manufactured."

Please let me know whether this works for you at the talk page. User:HopsonRoad 14:17, 5 January 2017 (UTC)