User talk:Angr/Archive 12

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Personal attack diff links.[edit]

and for indication that they rejected warnings,

--Barberio 23:17, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, I would clasify dredging up someone's contributions in an unrelated article, and declaring them to be poor, would be a personal attack. It seems to me to be an example of WP:DISRUPT directed as a personal attack. --Barberio 23:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

If you consider those personal attacks, you're either extremely thin-skinned or you've never encountered a real personal attack. To my mind, this is a personal attack worthy of a warning. And changing one past edit of yours hardly qualifies as Wikistalking. Angr (talkcontribs) 23:26, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Please investigate the issue before making statements like this. You would have discovered that it was not changing one past edit, but raising the article on the MoS talk page as a 'bad example' and then proceding to place blame for this with me. This I *do* consider Wikistalking. --Barberio 23:31, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi. I see that you have blocked the above user. I reported him at AIV. So, can you please remove his name from there. Thanks. - Aksi_great 09:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey! Thanks for reverting that. I did not even realize that he had vandalised my sub-page. - Aksi_great 09:10, 2 April 2006 (UTC)


PSYCH is a serial pest, he has put up a complaint there three times now and each time it was removed. This has already been discussed with others and I have received the all clear. This is just harassment. It is not a personal attack. It is a legitimate link and I do not even make any associated disparaging comments. If I were you I would look at PSYCH's contributions. His first hundred or so were all on my page or to do with me and since he has come back, has exclusively editted to harass me. So you will excuse me if I just ignore his ranting. If I cannot link any Wikipedia page that I want on my userpage then I may as well just give up here. Xtra 11:27, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

As I said, I don't know any of the backstory. After seeing his complaint on WP:PAIN I went to your user page, and seeing a link marked "My successful arbitration" that took me to a year-old RFAr, my impression was "This is gloating" (but not "This is a personal attack against PSYCH", however). That would have been my impression too if I had come to your user page for a completely unrelated reason and had seen that link there. Angr (talkcontribs) 11:35, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Hello, just to fill in some of the backstory from a somewhat outsiders point of view. I first noticed this dispute via a WP:30 raised by Lefty on campus about whether a link on his (Loc) page was a personal attack on Xtra. I agreed that it was as one as written, and recommended its removal. It was eventually removed after insistance from an admin (MarkGallagher) and Danny (see User_talk:Lefty_on_campus#Unblocked). Loc then posted multiple complaints about the same link (Abritatration against PSYCH) on PAIN, but after a little while it seemed to die down until today. Xtra did query whether Loc and PSYCH were the same person (contrary to Loc's complaints, it was not an "accusation" or an "attack"). I, too, would regard the idea of there being connection as a reasonable query, due to the number of similarities: Eg. Arb case against PSYCH ended with one year parole for personal attacks on Xtra on 12 March 2005, and after a few more months of posting, many on Xtra talk page, seemed to stop posting on 21 May 2005. Two days later, on 23 May 2005, Lefty on campus started posting, on similar articles, and also disagreed with Xtra over similar issues in similar ways, including over the Arb case on PSYCH. In the middle of the dispute over the Arb case link/Loc's user page link (10 March 2006), when Xtra suggested the possibility of them being the same person, PSYCH reappeared, starting with a posting on PAIN. To me, anyway, that looks somewhat suspicious, especally if it turns out to the same person, it would be an attempt to avoid an arbcon parole.
At the time, I did think that it might have been better for Xtra to remove the link, but as it turns out, I can understand the reasoning. To me, the link is there, not to gloat, but to give people some background. If someone saw the npa warning given to Xtra by PSYCH, without knowing that PSYCH had a proven case of personal attacks against that user, it would make Xtra look a lot worse than his is, and considering what he's been on the receiving end of, he's done remarkably well (as the Arb case also commented). (Sorry this got so long, so much for a quick background note!) Regards, MartinRe 12:19, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay, thanks for the backstory. I'm not going to insist Xtra remove the link from his page, I just wanted him to know what it looks like to someone coming to his user page for the first time. Angr (talkcontribs) 12:37, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

In case you missed it, I see PSYCH has again put in another personal attack complaint on PAIN against Xtra on the same topic. Since PSYCH doesn't seem to have many other edits bar complaining against Xtra, do you think this repeated raising complaints is getting out of hand? Regards, MartinRe 14:40, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

GOT link[edit]

Hello! Sorry for removing the got link in the English language article. I only saw it as a sequence of question marks. Two similar got links have appeared on the Czech Wikipedia today as well, but they really didn't work, so I removed it here without having tried it out. --Sebesta 15:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, there aren't too many fonts that show the Gothic letters correctly. Angr (talkcontribs) 16:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Well then, is there any way to display them properly in Mozilla Firefox or Internet Explorer? --Sebesta 16:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Internet Explorer, probably not. For Mozilla Firefox you have to download a font that has the Gothic characters, such as Code2000. Angr (talkcontribs) 16:02, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I can see all the characters now. --Sebesta 16:28, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

WP:PAIN for User:Xezzite[edit]

Just wanted to drop a note to thank you for your handling of the personal attack notice I posted for Xezzite. I don't have any personal desire to see him banned or censured for his tirade against me, as I was not particular offended by it (it seems more like BJAODN material than anything), nor do I care enough to file any sort of formal personal complaint against him... I simply thought it would be appropriate to bring it to the attention of admins, mainly due to his other rampant personal attacks and spamming actions, and not respond to it directly myself. I appreciate the way you handled the situation; while I'm not holding my breath expecting an apology or anything from him, it's good to know that there are those who are watching the backs of little guys like me. Thanks! --Kinu t/c 19:49, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Note on commons[edit]

Yeah... left you a message at Commons. Got it. Now watch who you let handle a camera around you from now on, okay?  :) astiqueparervoir 22:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

On Scottish vs. Irish Gaelic[edit]

This discussion has been moved to Talk:Scottish Gaelic language#On Scottish vs. Irish Gaelic. Angr (talkcontribs) 22:59, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


You know just as well as I do that your user page violates Jimbo's wishes. DaydreamBeliever1 00:35, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

So does his own, so I'm not too worried about it. Angr (talkcontribs) 08:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Precisely. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 09:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Mario Alinei[edit]

That was a pretty non-sequiteur deletion request for the Mario Alinei article.

Do you have an articulable gripe? Or do you just find his theories threatening/preposterous?

-- 13:31, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The article didn't -- and to my mind still doesn't -- indicate that he is any more notable than any other professor. The fact that the "theory" for which he is best known is unmitigated bullshit doesn't help his case much, although being a crackpot does not automatically render one nonnotable. Angr (talkcontribs) 13:36, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


I've translated this article, let me know what you think. I'm thinking that having the full text of each version of the pledge is unnecessary, and the text of the first and last versions with some text on the transition would be more than sufficient, and would like to hear your thoughts on that as well. The way the language of the pledge gets more and more revolutionary as the Wall gets closer and closer to collapse is certainly interesting in an ironic sort of way. --Sam Blanning(talk) 14:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

It looks good, though some might wonder what "the secular societies" are. I guess I was wrong in thinking it referred to free churches (and I admit I couldn't quite understand why the free churches would want a secular ceremony anyway). Angr (talkcontribs) 14:19, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I was going for Unitarian for a while after it was suggested on the talk page of WP:GSWN, but I couldn't find any mention of Unitarianism on the external links, so left it at 'secular'. --Sam Blanning(talk) 18:58, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


Hello Angr! Could I ask you a question? I've been wondering how I could modify the automatic signature inserted by pressing the button above my edit window. Is that possible? I mean a modification such as in your signature – Angr (talkcontribs). Do you use that button or do you copy/paste it? Thanks in advance. Sebesta 21:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Kusma's RfA[edit]


Hello, Angr! Thank you for your nice words and your support in my recent successful request for adminship. If you ever have problems that you could use my assistance with or see me doing stupid things with my new buttons, don't hesitate to contact me. Happy editing, Kusma (討論) 02:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Sources for Proto-Indo-European laryngeal forms?[edit]

I'd love to hear your input on the ongoing discussion at Talk:List_of_Indo-European_roots#Representing_laryngeals_and_voiced_aspirates. -Silence 06:47, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

English Language Revision of April 7th[edit]

I was the one who edited the credit of the distribution image on the English Language page. My apologies, i did not see the citation in the article by the British Council upon first viewing. After you reverted it back, I went back and rechecked. Thanks for keeping an eye out for my inatentivness. ja 19:46, 8 April 2006 (UTC).

No problem! I just added a note to Image talk:English dialects1997.png to make it clearer that the British Council got its figures from Crystal. Angr (talkcontribs) 19:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Sansouci FAC[edit]

Hi Angre, you've shown an interest in Sanssouci in the past. The page has now been much altered, and the FAC page is back in business. I've noted your comment on the prose, I'm afraid brilliant prose is a skill one has or does not, so I've given it my best shot, and invited a couple of the better known FAC copy-editors to ammend (which they have). I hope you too will be able to make any alterations you think necessary. Perhaps you would now like to review the page. This is not meant to be a soliciting spam, I'm just contacting those who have already shown an interest, as I'm just concerned that people may not realise, the FAC is back and running. Thanks. Giano | talk 13:48, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

German phonology[edit]

You really think "free allophone" is a good way of describing a phone that occurs in the speech of speakers from some areas but not others? To me it gives the impression that they just vary randomly in the speech of an individual depending on their mood or something. --Ptcamn 10:13, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if "free allophone" is the best way of putting it (in my experience [ʀ] and [ʁ] are truly in free variation while the difference between those two on the one hand and [r] on the other is regionally determined). But the point is, "diaphone" doesn't seem to be a term used much in linguistics (I don't think I've ever encountered it in my nineteen years' experience in theoretical linguistics), and the article diaphone is about a musical instrument. Maybe we can find some better replacement for "free allophone". Angr (talkcontribs) 10:25, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Bantu languages[edit]

Yo, angry dude, could you perhaps take a peak at the pedantic info I've added to that talk page? I know that African linguistics is probably not your thing but the people I've already asked to take a look couldn't be bothered. (!) Also, could you tell me how I can become a member of the linguistics and phonetics WikiProjects? I've stopped laughing at the bad quality of articles on African languages and I'm willing to help wherever I can. If possible please respond on my talk page. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 12:56, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Is there an Ur-Bantu phonology/Proto-Bantu phonology article? Shouldn't there be? Although I'm basically not internet connected at all I do try to make a difference by communicated with other editors and advising them. It obviously doesn't help if they choose to ignore my help. Those baseline articles on Africans won't fix themselves, you know! Are people aware that the Uncyclopedia Brit articles on Africans are invariably flawed? Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 14:32, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

(wondering why I'm using this peculiar editing style? it's a long, sad story...) Yeah, I need to get my paws on the landmark Introduction to the Phonology of the Bantu Languages by Meinhof and Warmelo first, instead of reading about it in second-hand sources... How easy is it to get an English translation of a German book published in 1932? Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 14:50, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Depends. Do you know there even is an English translation of it? How close are you to the nearest university library? I don't know where in South Africa you are, but I know the University of the Witwatersrand has a pretty good linguistics department, they might be able to help you. Angr (talkcontribs) 14:53, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I can get to Wits. How would an outsider gain access to their security card controlled libraries? Sorry for messing up the section below... I think I'll go to Wits. Anyway, thanks for your help - I'll stop bothering you now. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 15:09, 10 April 2006 (UTC) Both Doke and Mofokeng were part of the Wits AL School!? Looking at the seemingly bland courses they offered I wasn't sure they were into the info I needed. Kewl! I'll certainly need to speak to someone from the School (or "Discipline" - seems like they've changed the name, again). Do you think if I mention "Wikipedia" they'll laugh at me and tell me to get lost? Thanks once again for all your help. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 15:54, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Policeman v. janitor[edit]

Now there is one good question to ask potential admins. Me, I'm a janitor - but in the kick-ass Curtis mould. Just zis Guy you know? 14:52, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


I've no idea who this guy is, but in this edit on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents he deleted my comment and introduced a spelling error to the comment of User:Piotrus. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 18:03, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

ProhibitOnions's RfA[edit]

Thank you, Angr/Archive 12!
Thank you! ...for voting in my RFA. It passed with a result of 58/2/0. If you have any comments, or for some reason need any new-admin help, please let me know here. Sorry about the boilerplate. Regards, ProhibitOnions 22:48, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

And now there are three of us en-admins in Berlin, I get to be the rookie! Regards, ProhibitOnions 22:48, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Alphabetical order[edit]

That made me look like an idiot didn't it? lol :D Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 14:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Pagemove vandalism[edit]

I deleted those redirects...they're pretty nasty PAs I think. --HappyCamper 15:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

If you say so. All I could see was a lot of pretty characters. LOL. Angr (talkcontribs) 15:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

...and thanks again. I thought 24 hours are just for starters though... Maybe I too should behave less in the future (kidding ofcourse). If I caused any trouble pasting this to WP:AN please let me know, but I didn't know what to do...  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 16:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

That IP address had never been blocked before, so it was just for starters. Angr (talkcontribs) 16:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I've been here only since early January, but I haven't come across to such grose verbose PAs to me or any other user before...  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 16:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Wait till you become an admin. You'll get called much worse things than that with much greater frequency. You get used to it. Angr (talkcontribs) 16:25, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Ha! Congrats on your promptness in resolving this, again!  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 16:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Jedi6's RFA[edit]


I fixed my vote so that it would be more clear. Thanks for letting me know.

Take care, (^'-')^ Covington 17:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


This amused me. -Colin Kimbrell 20:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Helb, helb, I'b god bead up my dode!-Colin Kimbrell 20:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi Angr , would be great to see you voting here Wikipedia:Good Article Collaboration of the week and promoting it to friendly users . thanks a lot Sashandre all the best for you

Irish language[edit]

Hi Angr! There's a little conflict on the Irish language page right now. There have been numerous reverts tonight. I can't say very much about the topic myself, so I'm contacting you. Could you please take a look at it? Thank you. Daniel Šebesta (talkcontribs) 21:35, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed. I guess I should protect the page to give them a chance to talk it over on the talk page. Angr (talkcontribs) 21:42, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with you. If there's another revert by one of those users... Daniel Šebesta (talkcontribs) 21:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

What "if"? They've been at it long enough, so I've protected the page. I'm going to bed now; they can fight out on the talk page all night if they want. Angr (talkcontribs) 21:51, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, you're right. The talk page is the right place to discuss it. They should have used it long ago. Thanks for your help. Good night! Daniel Šebesta (talkcontribs) 21:55, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi, Angr! I don't know if you'll be able to help, but since you are the only native speaker of English with a linguistics degree I've been able to spot around (not that I tried all that hard), I thought I'd give it a try. Recently, there was an argument over the term "subdivision" as applied to a country's administrative, political, and whatever other units (see, for example, this and also this). Most dictionaries define "subdivisions" as "housing subdivisions", i.e. lots of land. Would you be able to shed some light (no matter how dim :)) on this subject from the native speaker and linguistic points of view? If you can, please comment at Talk:Subdivision. If not, could you direct me to someone who can? Thanks much!—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 22:04, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Um, I don't think being a linguist is going to be much help here. I'm pretty sure I've heard the word used with both meanings, although subnational entity is also used for the first definition, I think. Angr (talkcontribs) 05:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks anyway!——Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 12:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Book of Common Prayer[edit]

Your change of "communion tables" to "altars" with the comment "use the correct term" is inapposite in the context of a discussion of the diocese of Sydney, where that is indeed the term. Indeed, they are on wheels so that they can be immediately removed from the church after the infrequent celebrations of the "Lord's Supper" [sic]. Out of sync with mainstream Anglicanism, to be sure, but that is the terminology and practice in that diocese, the wealthiest in Australia. Masalai 09:22, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh dear. Okay, change it back then! Angr (talkcontribs) 10:23, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Vowel mergers[edit]

Wow. I should have expected that such a thing exists in Wikipedia, but I never really thought to look before I came across your posts to the reference desk (on "want"). As a Trinidadian who has spent a lot of his life in North America (southern Ontario, Michigan, Oklahoma), I have always been interested in sounds and pronounciations, especially of vowels. Trinidadian pronounciations differ from "typical" Caribbean pronounciations, but also from RP (I've heard it compared to south Welsh often); Indo-Trini pronounciations also differs in sound from Afro-Trini/north Trini pronounications somewhat. And then, having grown up all over the place, I have my own "made-up" accent which differs from everyone else in the world ;)

So - thanks for the figures on your user page, and the articles they linked to. Now I need to learn IPA. Guettarda 14:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Optimality theory[edit]

Hey! I read your epic battle on the talk page with another linguist "contributer". So, what's the "unmarked syllable" (with egs)? Can you give me examples of OT constraints in English (what are they, exactly)? Seems they use OT to explain Bantu tonality, but I couldn't learn much from 'net sources. Where do OT constrs come from? Are they memes? How productive/useful is OT. Why eg does English have irregular stress patterns (ie can I use OT to understand arbitrary problems)? Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 17:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Oy, I don't think I can explain all of Optimality Theory in a talk page message on Wikipedia, but I'll try to give a quick rundown. The "unmarked syllable" is a syllable that has one consonant in the syllable onset and one vowel in the syllable nucleus; examples from English are the words bee and paw and each syllable of the word tomato. Ideally, all languages should have the same constraints; the difference between languages' grammars is then just how the constraints are ranked. So for example, in German, all obstruents are voiceless in the syllable coda: the word Rad "wheel" is pronounced [ʁaːt], because the voiced sound [d] has to become voiceless at the end of a syllable. As a result, this word is homophonous with the word Rat "advice". In English, on the other hand, voiced obstruents can appear in coda position and can contrast with voiceless obstruents: the English words bed and bet are pronounced differently. According to OT, both English and German have two constraints relevant to this discussion: one constraint (call it NO-VOICED-CODA) that says "No voiced obstruents in coda position" and another (call it VOICE-FAITH) that says "No changing the voicing of consonants". In German, NO-VOICED-CODA is ranked higher than VOICE-FAITH, which means you can violate VOICE-FAITH (e.g. by pronouncing the d of Rad as a [t]) in order to keep from violating NO-VOICED-CODA. In English, their ranking is switched: VOICE-FAITH is higher ranked, which means you can violate NO-VOICED-CODA (e.g. by pronouncing the d' of bed as a [d]) in order to keep from violating VOICE-FAITH. Does that make sense? Angr (talkcontribs) 19:46, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh... So in Sesotho VELAR-NASAL-CODA-ALLOWED would be higher than NO-CODA-AT-ALL? But most other Bantu langs would have these 2 switched? Ses has lost the Bantu prenasalised consonants but has rare syllabic nasals. It also has a prenasalised click and unique syllabic nasal followed by a radical or aspirated click. It would appear that there is an infinite number of constrs, then - they seem so arbitrary! What's so amazing about the Australian (?) lang you mentioned with a/the VC "unmarked syllable"?

What's surprising about the Australian language I mentioned is that the constraints on syllable structure are supposed to be ONSET ("a syllable has an onset") and NO-CODA ("a syllable does not have a coda"). The unmarked CV syllable meets both of those constraints. A VC syllable violates both of them, so you don't expect any language to prefer VC syllables. That doesn't mean you don't expect languages to have VC syllables -- English has many, e.g. eat -- merely that you don't expect it to be the preferred (or God forbid only) syllable type in the language. Angr (talkcontribs) 22:45, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


I think that if these categorizations by nationality are to have any objectivity, we should allow any nationality that were held by the articles' subjects during their lifetimes. I don't know if Porkorny ever had a Czech passport, if he didn't, we should remove the template. If he did, we should add whatever other nationalities he held besides. This is only feasible for relatively recent biographies, of course; I am aware that categorization by nationality/ethnicity may be problematic for medieval, let alone ancient, subjects, but Pokorny at least would seem to fall within the age of passports. dab () 08:23, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

required 5,000 regular users[edit]

20:12, 16 February 2006 Angr deleted "Phatmass" (PROD (also re-creation of deleted page, see Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Phatmass. content was: 'prod|Alexa ranking 44,433, forum falls short of the required 5,000 regular is a Catholic Website focused on helping Teens gr)

Where does Wikipedia list that there is a required 5,000 users? This is just an inquiry and not an attempt on my part to bring the Phatmass article back. It is about another website's article on Wikipedia, that I am curious about. --LuminousSpecter 22:41, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't know; it was the original PRODder who wrote that part, not me. Angr (talkcontribs) 06:36, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Re Chris Medlock[edit]

In this case the editor who removed the prod tag agreed, after some discussion, that it should be replaced, and also supplied an endorsement. However I suppose this is all way too complicated to unwind now. Tex 21:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. Five days more on AFD won't hurt anything. Angr (talkcontribs) 22:00, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Talk Ex-Yugoslavia[edit]

Talk:Kosovo#2 Administrator for Ex-Yugoslavien articels in Wikipedia- The voice of Kosovar —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 02:32, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of Domestos[edit]

17:51, 15 April 2006 Angr deleted "Domestos" (content was: 'Domestos, along with others, is a very popular cleaning agent. It is used on all sorts of surfaces like carpets and walls to remove stains. ...')
The link on the deletion tag redirected to your personal talk page, as far as I noticed... Two things; one, no VfD? Two, no reasoning? Three, when did you admins start linking to your own talk pages instead of making a VfD before deleting an article? -TVPR 06:57, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The deletion log for "Domestos" is here. The content began with the tag {{prod}}, indicating that this was an uncontested Proposed deletion. There is no link to my user talk page, just a link to my user page, as is normal whenever a username is mentioned. Angr (talkcontribs) 07:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
... I know where the deletion log is. If I did not, I wouldn't have been much able to quote from it. Anyway, user page, talk page - nobody's likely to ask "wtf" on your user page, you ought to know what I meant. Which is: I can not seem to find anything but the PROD tag indicating this article was up for deletion. Is there at all anything to be found? There is nothing anywhere reasoning - as I asked before - this article's deletion as per site policy.-TVPR 09:04, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
As far as I can tell there was nothing else. At 11:27, 10 April 2006 User:Supergolden added simply "{{prod}}" without specifying a reason. No one else touched the page until I deleted it five days later. Do you contest deletion now? If so, I can speedy-undelete it for you; that's part of the PROD policy too. Angr (talkcontribs) 09:09, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Please do. There's been easter holidays all around, with subsequent lack of internet access, otherwise I'd hae noticed and removed the tag. -TVPR 09:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay, it's undeleted. It still needs wikification, categorization, discussion of its importance and context, and the citation of reliable sources, though. Angr (talkcontribs) 09:41, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of Windows Language Interface Pack[edit]

Could you please let me know why did you deleted the article Windows Language Interface Pack. I am the creator of the article. Why's wrong in creating an article which induces local language computing and all of the interpretation done by the volunteers including wikipedians. Please reply.--Umapathy 04:48, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I deleted it as an uncontested Proposed deletion. It had been proposed for deletion with the reasoning "Wikipedia is not a how-to". I can undelete it if you like, but personally I think it would be better to expand the article Language Interface Pack than to have a separate article on the Windows LIP. And it is indeed inappropriate for an encyclopedia article to contain step-by-step instructions on installation. Angr (talkcontribs) 05:11, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
One the problem with Tamil wikipedia is not the characters are not rendered correctly unless you set up the windows. This could either be done by installing Windows LIP (Language Interface Pack) or either by setting up complex scripts for Windows XP/2003 or Indic support in Windows 2000. If you don’t setup windows no body can read it. So windows LIP is more important than Office LIP since it helps the reader to read Tamil wikipedia (and of course other wikipedias as well) whether we need or not how to articles is depending on the requirements. I shall be very thankful if you can restore it. Also have a look at my interview bhashaindia at --Umapathy 08:49, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I've restored it now, but if you want to write a page helping people install this so they can read the Tamil Wikipedia, it should be in Wikipedia: or Help: namespace, not in article namespace. You might want to incorporate the material into Wikipedia:Enabling complex text support for Indic scripts, or discuss with the people there what the best thing to do with this is. But as it stands, it really isn't an encyclopedia article. Angr (talkcontribs) 09:01, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

your input[edit]

hi Angr, how are you? You seem to be knowledgeable in this area and was wondering if you could take a look at the discussion that is taking place here, Talk:Meißen porcelain, thank you. with kind regards Gryffindor 09:56, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

retroflex flap[edit]

Hello. Is it at all possible to use a retroflex flap in such words as "fraternity", "eternity", "maternity", "opportunity"? As opposed to, say, "majority", or "authority", or "liberty". --Dennis Valeev 14:08, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

It's possible, sure, but I'm not sure whether it's actually done in natural speech. If it's found anywhere, I'd expect it to occur after r by assimilation: I could imagine party being pronounced [ˈpʰɑɻɽi] with a retroflex flap after a retroflex approximant. Angr (talkcontribs) 14:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Interestingly enough, but this is exactly the way I articulate such words as "party", "integrity" and the same, but not, say, "vanity" (which is, up to this point, I pronounced as [ˈvæɾ̃ɪɾi]). But that guy, the host of the Colber' Repor', pronounces the "christianity" word in a very funny way. I've made the cuttings, when you have an opportunity of installing an audio system on your computer ;), make a point of listening to the pieces I provided on the reference desk. Gosh, the whole thing's driving me insane. That is, whenever I see the word with the -nity ending I relapse into a futile perseveration. Do you have a good book on the subject? Available to download? Thanks. --Dennis Valeev 14:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I have audio on my computer at home, but I'm at work at the moment. I'll see if I can hear the files when I get home tonight. But if I follow you correctly, your point is some people are pronouncing these -nity words almost as if they were -nerty, right? Angr (talkcontribs) 14:37, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, but without an intrusive retroflex approximant. Maybe it is because I have some kinda tin-ear problem, but I think I'm very well versed in distinguising retroflex flaps and alveolar taps, can hear them with my eyes closed! :) Well, the problem boils down to the following statement: I hear him saying it like that [ˈæɾ̃əɽi:] or maybe even [ˈæɾ̃ɚɽi:]. Check the examples, I'm eager to know your opinion on the matter. Thanks. --Dennis Valeev 17:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Also, can you tel me whether I'm right when I pronounce "authority" as [əθˈɑɻɽi]? --Dennis Valeev 09:02, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Authority to rhyme with party? Well I don't say it that way, but I'm not so prescriptive as to call it wrong! Angr (talkcontribs) 09:05, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Nah, it doesn't rhyme with party in my head, the "aw"+"r" part lasts pretty long: [əθˈɑɻɚɽi]. Hah, it's impossible to pronounce [ɪ] with your tongue curled back, without tinting it with the "r", right? Can you transcribe then its pronunciation (the version with the retroflex flap; it seems I'm a bit incompetent in writing transcriptions)? --Dennis Valeev 09:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
The transcription you gave looks pretty good for what you're talking about. Angr (talkcontribs) 09:30, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I mean, is it common at all? Do I have a tin ear problem? Because I hear it almost all the time, unless a person speaks slowly and carefully. :) --Dennis Valeev 09:35, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know; if anything maybe you have too sensitive an ear as you hear fine phonetic distinctions that make no phonological difference! :p Angr (talkcontribs) 09:46, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I got it, I just have to take it easy a little bit. :) But what about that guy from the show? Did you listen to the files? --Dennis Valeev 09:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I left a comment back on the reference desk. Angr (talkcontribs) 09:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. You're very helpful. --Dennis Valeev 10:39, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello again! May I ask you to transcribe the following word for me? "security" (General American, with a flap). Also, do you know a place on the internet where I could read about flaps (not taps)? Thank you very much. Umm, I thought that a retroflex flap is actually an alveolar flap (as opposed to an alveolar tap). Is there any truth to that? I mean, many linguists don't distinguish between the two, but, as far as I can see, it's a terrible assumption to think that people upon reading a phonetic transcription can recognize whether it's a flap or tap being used. --Dennis Valeev 20:38, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

My pronunciation (narrowly transcribed) is [səˈkʰjɝəɾi], others may pronounce it [səˈkʰjʊɹəɾi]. Hmm... I'm just re-reading what Ladefoged has to say, and he agrees with you: "In a flap, the tip of the tongue is first curled up and back in a retroflex gesture and then strikes the roof of the mouth in the post-alveolar region as it returns to its position behind the lower front teeth." I had always thought that [ɽ] was actually a retroflex tap, essentially an ultrashort [ɖ], the same way [ɾ] is an ultrashort [d]. But I guess I was wrong. Anyway, unlike you, I have a hard time hearing the difference between the flap and the tap. Angr (talkcontribs) 20:55, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Ok, after having said this, can you tell me whether there's an alveolar tap followed by an alveolar flap in, say, "opportunity". [uɾ̃ɪɽi] or, well, "christianity"? --21:08, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, I can pronounce it that way, but I'm reluctant to say that's the only or even the predominant pronunciation. Angr (talkcontribs) 21:11, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm... :) What is the predominant one, then? Non-native speakers aside. --Dennis Valeev 21:15, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, until you do a phonetic study of 25 native speakers of American English, we won't know! Angr (talkcontribs) 21:16, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Haha, alright! Okay, you said you can pronounce it the way I described, but what is your natural pronunciation provided you speak really fast? --Dennis Valeev 21:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

In rapid speech, I think I use two alveolar taps (the first one nasal, the second one oral), with the briefest of possible vowels between them. My tongue does lose contact with my alveolar ridge really quickly between the [ɾ̃] and the [ɾ], just long enough to make an audible vowel and to raise my velum to end nasalization, but my tongue tip doesn't go far enough away to make a retroflex flap. I bet my tongue tip is never more than a millimeter away from my alveolar ridge during the entire [ɾ̃ɪɾ] sequence. Angr (talkcontribs) 21:33, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. --Dennis Valeev 21:39, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Am I right when I assume that in rapid speech there exists the following transition: "celebrity" (suh-LEB-ruh-tee)--> "celebirty" (suh-LEB-uhrtee), where the "rt" pair is actually an alveolar flap, and, well, the second schwa in the second word is ultra short, for some obscure reason; as far as I'm concerned. --Dennis Valeev 17:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

It's possible to pronounce that way, sure, but it's also possible to pronounce it the first way. Angr (talkcontribs) 17:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
The point is, in rapid speech the second version is predominant. Right? --Dennis Valeev 17:57, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Again, until you perform an experiment, I don't know! Angr (talkcontribs) 17:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Ok, ok... :) Lemme put it that way, is it natural for you pronounce it in the way I described? --Dennis Valeev 18:01, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Not for me personally, no, but if someone else pronounced it that way I probably wouldn't even notice. Angr (talkcontribs) 18:03, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Heh, ok, I'm going to make a little research on NPR programs. Would you like to hear about results, whatever they are? I will listen to 5 newscasts that contain the "celebrity" word and count frequencies. Well, such a quote-unquote research may be considered too npr-biased and finally frowned upon and simply ignored, but who cares? --Dennis Valeev 18:07, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
On a lighter note, though, I think you have to archive your current talk page, as it's so huge! --Dennis Valeev 18:09, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
I didn't know they ever talked about celebrities on NPR. Why not use an infotainment network like E! or CNN? As for the size of my talk page, whose fault is that, hmm??? ;-) Angr (talkcontribs) 18:11, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Not me, not I, not myself! Nip your blatant fingerpointing in the bud, willya? :) It's not kinda comment up with which I will proverbially put. --Dennis Valeev 18:16, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi, Angr! Back in March I asked you about the pronunciation of in different forms, to which you provided a very helpful answer. I just wanted to clarify some things about the bhíothadh form. Both An Foclóir Beag and my Collins Irish Dictionary (not to mention Irish verbs :)) provide bhíothas, not bhíothadh, as the translation of "one was". Ó Siadhail sticks with bhíothadh, which is probably dialect-specific. Would you please clarify for me what the difference between the two forms is and which would be better for a learner like me to use? Same goes for the Ó Siadhail's rabhadh--Collins Irish Dictionary suggests rabhthas, and An Foclóir Beag--rabhthar (I am not entirely sure if I'm looking at the right tables, though). I would prefer Standard Irish, or a Connacht Irish version.--Ag Foghlaim 19:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The official standard (Caighdeán Oifigiúil) is bhíothas and rabhthas in the past tense, so those are the forms you as a learner should use. Rabhthar is the autonomous form in the present subjunctive, not the past indicative. Angr (talkcontribs) 21:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Bhuel, níl ionadh orm ar chor ar bith :) Ó Siadhail is often maddening in regards to the dialect-specific vocabulary and phrases he uses. No matter how much effort I put into trying to catch all those dialect perks and replace them with Standard Irish, I keep finding myself in a position of having learned something that I should have learned in a completely different way. Anyway, thanks again for your help and for clarification of present subjunctive vs. past indicative--I am yet to figure out An Foclóir Beag's abbreviations, so it was completely my screw-up.--Ag Foghlaim 21:47, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I know, that's why I can never recommend Ó Siadhail in good conscience to someone wanting to learn Irish. The problem is, there's nothing else out there! Angr (talkcontribs) 21:58, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Maple Park Hockey[edit]

Can you please provide me with the reasons for deleting my Maple Park Hockey page? This site contained only true information and did not warrant its deletion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 18:51, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I deleted it under Criterion for speedy deletion A7: "Unremarkable people or groups/Vanity Pages. An article about a real person, group of people, band, or club that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject." Nothing in the article asserted the importance or significance of this group of people. Angr (talkcontribs) 22:08, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi there. Could you delete Île-aux-Moines? I'm going to translate it, but accidentally pressed "Save" instead of preview. Thanks Angr. It will be recreated soon again, but in English. --Wonderfool t(c) 23:25, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Davis Gym[edit]

Why did you delete Bucknell University's Davis Gym on April 16th? I believe it has merit as it was a site of the Patriot League basketball tournament, and the fact that many other venues of similar age and decreased use also have entries. I would have urged you to see under what contexts it was used/where else it was linked to.....WillC 01:32, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I deleted it because it was Proposed for deletion and no one had contested that. If you're contesting it now, I can restore the page for you, but I suspect that unless you explain more about why the gym is important, someone will come along and either PROD it again or AFD it. Maybe it would be better to add a paragraph about the gym to the article on Bucknell University instead of writing a separate article on the gym. Angr (talkcontribs) 07:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Code-switching and "Aleturkisch"[edit]

Greetings. At the risk of being pedantic, I'd like to point out that there is an important difference between code-switching and a mixed language as described in our hoax article. In code-switching, the contributing languages are not "compromised"; the switching occurs at the phrase level. In a "mixed language", the mixture typically also occurs at the level of single words. One example of some I've actually seen: Aptekimiz instead of Turkish Eczanemiz or German Unsere Apotheke. --LambiamTalk 07:27, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi, you're not being pedantic; there is an important distinction, and I'm aware of it but glossed over it in the AFD. The thing is, genuine mixed languages are really rare, and I don't believe that what I hear on the bus from the Turkish children going to German school in the morning is a mixed language, but rather code-switching. Something like aptekimiz is probably just a loanword at some level; saying that is no different than one English-speaker living in Germany saying to another, "there's an Einfahrt leading into the Hinterhof" (an actual quote from a conversation I once had with another American here; neither of us even noticed until a German friend started to laugh). Angr (talkcontribs) 07:39, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Photo of Paperback Hero DVD[edit]

Could you please tell me why I received no notification that my scan of the DVD cover for "Paperback Hero" was in danger of being deleted. I feel that as contributor of this particular image, I had every right to be informed of its pending deletion prior to you deleting the image, rather than my discovering after the fact that the image had been deleted. I am disappointed that nobody had even made the attempt to contact me about the matter, which I feel is the least that I should be entitled to expect.

Could you please also indicate the reason for the deletion of the picture. Figaro 15:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi, the reason for deletion is that it was a copyrighted image uploaded under a fair use provision, but it wasn't actually used in any articles. Fair use images have to be used in articles, or else they will be deleted. As far as I can tell, the image had only been used in Hugh Jackman but was removed by User:Crumbsucker with this edit. A week later (20:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)), the image was tagged as an orphaned fair-use image by User:Roomba, which is a bot owned by User:Gmaxwell. I deleted it nine days after that. I agree you should have been notified when Roomba tagged the image; other bots (e.g. User:OrphanBot) are programmed to do that. Roomba apparently isn't; perhaps you could ask User:Gmaxwell to program it so it notifies uploaders of orphaned images in the future. Another good idea is to keep images you upload on your watchlist, so you see when someone tags them. Angr (talkcontribs) 16:25, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


Why was File:WrightCatapult.jpg, a 1910 image with a source and a {{PD-US}} tag deleted? -- Mwanner | Talk 19:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

It didn't have at {{PD-US}} tag, or any other licensing tag. The source given was the URL, which doesn't work, as the site appears not to exist. Angr (talkcontribs) 19:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I added the PD-US tag about 2 hours ago, but I guess I should have checked out the source link. Thanks for the info. I assume I'll be able to find it again somewhere. I do wish there was a way to view deleted images, at least for a while after deletion (not to mention deleted edits). Anyway, thanks for the info. -- Mwanner | Talk 20:00, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
I worked on the Wright image, too, though it's always possible I previewed the change and never saved it. I have found a similar image, but oddly enought only on that dead site,, which is still indexed on google. I can get to the image on that site via the wayback machine. Any idea whether that counts as a legit source? -- Mwanner | Talk 20:16, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
You must have forgotten to save; there are no edits from you at all in its page history. I kind of doubt a link to a now-deleted page via the wayback machine will pass muster with the more copyright-paranoid among us. Is there really no other website that has that picture? Angr (talkcontribs) 20:22, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it's certainly possible. And no, not that I can find, but that has me wondering if it's really legitimately PD. Just because it's a 1909 image doesn't mean it was published then. Maybe that's why the site is now dead? Anyway, sorry to trouble you-- there are plenty of other Wright images around. Thanks, -- Mwanner | Talk 20:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Irish lingo page[edit]

A chara,

There was no space between "North WestTír Chonaill" on the Irish lingo page, which you undid. I've added the space again..



The OS has only one place called Mingarry and doesn't have a castle grid reference NM605705--JBellis 20:35, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what the OS might be, but the article is called Mingarry Castle. If you want to start an article on the town called Mingarry, that would be great. Until then, having a redirect to Mingarry Castle does no harm. Angr (talkcontribs) 20:40, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


You recently informed me of the orphaned image from the article of "Zapmolcuno". What happened to the entry? At last check, it was not even marked for deletion, and now it is completely gone! The S 02:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

No, 'tis all right. Perhaps I will simply add the character to a "List of...." The S 18:12, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

No longer funny[edit]

Thou art an Admin, right? Please see Meta:RfP#Removal of access, then go to Angela's en talk page and see my response (it should be at the bottom). Also, where should I go to get that bloody "seSotho" changed to "Sesotho" (without having to deal with laypersons who wouldn't understand a linguistic explanation)? Please respond on my (en) talk page, if possible. (st:User:Zyxoas) Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 17:24, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi Angr. Could you do me a favor and take a look at this article. User:Hild did what I thought was a translation but seems to have ad-libbed quite a bit. S/he also included POVs and I tried to replace one relevant section with a straight translation of the corresponding section from the German article but User:Hild reverted while I was out (see also Talk:Pforzheim). I replied yesterday or the day before (not sure as I'm still unpacking boxes) and again reverted the POV, but User:Hild has now stated that the facts in the German article are not correct and provided some references though I'm not able to check. I was going to ask User:Rosenzweig to take a look at it too since I know he speaks English very well and in involved in the Geo pages on the dewiki side. I haven't had another look or even a look at the entire article for lack of time right now so I don't know whether there is more POV stuff that we should cut, but just reading the Note to the history section, Hild inserted makes me uneasy, so I'd really like your input. Thanks already for your help. --Mmounties (Talk) Pawprint.png 17:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

de:Bad Schwalbach[edit]

  • Corresponding English-language article: Bad Schwalbach
  • Worth doing because: English article is barely a stub, and is 95 years out of date.
  • Originally Requested by: Angr (talkcontribs) 22:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Status:
  • Other notes:
  • Supported:

I translated this into English and the English can therefore be found here: Bad Schwalbach

Admin stuff[edit]

Angr, can you please look at Pnatt's contributions to Cranbourne, Victoria. I fear that he is working against consensus on many issues and here has aparently surpassed 3rr. Xtra 08:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I only see one issue in the past 24 hours and it looks to me like a candidate for lamest edit war of the month. Is it a suburb in the Melbourne Metropolitan Area 45 km southeast of city centre, or is it a suburb 45 km southeast of Melbourne? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Angr (talkcontribs) 08:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
The point was that Pnatt is making an unconstructive edit war on every page he visits. Check his talk page and contributions for evidence. Xtra 08:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Please don't put this on me. I don't have the time or energy to deal with a POV pusher who isn't a blatant vandal right now. If he's violated 3RR, report him at WP:3RR. If he's generally being a pain the ass, report him at WP:AN or start an RfC about him. In either of the latter cases, be as specific as possible, providing diffs specifically showing his troublesome behavior. Angr (talkcontribs) 08:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

No longer funny (please merge these sections)[edit]

Thanks for your help, Irascible Dude! Go to my user page and see the section where it says "In other languages", where can I go to change "seSotho" to "Sesotho" for all pages? Should I explain in linguistical terms? Perhaps the reason why Angie didn't check my edit history is because she didn't know what "Tse ngotsweng ke motho enwa" meant (that's another joke, btw). Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 12:00, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I see what you're talking about. Wherever a page is linked to its equivalent in the Sesotho Wikipedia, the language is called "seSotho" in the "Other languages" box. I'll see if I can fix that, or find someone who can. You gotta be careful with those jokes, though, dude. Angr (talkcontribs) 12:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Stadler GTW[edit]

No, sorry. I'll leave it up to Doco. Doco is a better translator than me. So it is wiser to copy wikitext from the German laguage version and paste it at User:Doco/sandbox/Stadler GTW.Myrtone (the strict Australian wikipedian) 13:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Not without asking him first, it isn't! Angr (talkcontribs) 13:28, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, Doco is currently translating DB 628 and wants other users to help, could you?
Myrtone (the strict Australian wikipedian)User talk:Myrtone (the strict Australian wikipedian):-)
Not me. I refuse to translate anything for Wikipedia that's more boring than what I have to translate at work! Angr (talkcontribs) 13:35, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi Angr! Could you please block this user? Despite the Test4 warning he keeps vandalizing articles as well as userpages, mine being one of them (see [1]). Thank you. Daniel Šebesta (talkcontribs) 13:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Done. Angr (talkcontribs) 13:32, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Daniel Šebesta (talkcontribs) 13:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

User IP Address[edit]

I see you blocked User IP Address here for making personal attacks. He carried on, and I warned him here. In response, he posted "it seems like you're infatuated aka barnstar crazy. I won't come between you two. Just keep out of Wikipedia's hair and my own" on here. I did give his victim a barnstar because I thought s/he deserved it and could do with the reassurance. As it happens, this is the first barnstar I've ever given, so barnstar crazy is wide of the mark. Anyway, I thought I'd bring it to your attention because I'm not going to respond to User IP Address and I'm not an Admin. Cheers! Chelseaboy 22:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill--just to "take care" of your friend. That's okay. Do your worst to stick up for those who give fuck all about the rules themselves. Pick and choose which rulebreakers to be kind to! Ever stop to think that I may need a friend? It just so happens, that I doubt the sincerity of this other user and their excuses. It is convenient for you to push for an injunction against my editing, so your friend can edit freely without dispute--in my absence (bringing up month-old bad news). This other person was hoping that nobody would suspect their IP editing, but I noticed it through the edit summaries right away. This person has concocted their own standards about editing the Wikipedia, which do not match those of the Wikipedia community. I and this other editor may be in disagreement--but just because I called him/her out on foul practices, does not mean that it was anything resembling personal attacks. I shouldn't call attention to vandals when they put nonsense up in the articles? I shouldn't make sure others know that what they've been doing is unhelpful? I shouldn't remind others to not sneak in their favoured edits by covertly doing so, under another name or IP address? I wonder what the Wikipedia has come to. IP Address 04:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Please note that I am not a vandal, I tried to be concilliatory to IP Address, and I've got no prior relationship with Chelseaboy. All I tried to do was be nice and reach a compromise with IP Address. I'm sorry if you consider that to be a "foul practice." Now, I hope that this is the last I ever have to type on this subject.--Evadb 10:42, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Please note it was IP Address who referred to "foul practices", not me. I blocked him several weeks ago for making lewd remarks on people's talk pages, that's all. If you all can't be civil to each other, at least keep my talk page out of it. Angr (talkcontribs) 10:47, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Sorry. I saw that my name was being brought up, so I thought I'd try to defend it. I was not implying that you said anything unseemly. Have a blessed day.--Evadb 11:35, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes Angr, there is no need to be defencive. On the matter of your complaint, I will respect it. IP Address 11:42, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. In fact, that is exactly what I hoped about a month ago. IP Address 10:46, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

No longer funny (why aren't you merging these sections?)[edit]

Once again thanks for your help. Here's a joke you might find funny (or confusing): How do you get a bass guitarist to stop practising that annoying riff over and over again? Tell him "hey! Why don't you try it in E-sharp?" Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 10:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Irish orthography[edit]

Is this true? If so, how often? Thanks!--Ag Foghlaim 17:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know of any exceptions (which is why I wrote "always" in the first place), but perhaps there are dialects where it isn't true, or perhaps there are irregular verbs where it isn't true, or perhaps the edit was made by someone with an inherent fear of absolutes, who just changed "always" to "often" to be on the safe side. Angr (talkcontribs) 17:59, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Don Valentine[edit]

Why did you delete his article? He's a major figure in the founding of several highly influential companies. Was the article empty, or did someone assert non-notable? (Since we can't see what was there we have no clue whether it was a useless stub or a great article.) Thanks! Coll7 00:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

It was an uncontested proposed deletion. If you contest it now, I can undelete it for you, but it can still be nominated for AFD. Angr (talkcontribs) 07:02, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
How would I do so? He has avoided the public eye, but his influence has been huge. Thanks. Coll7 19:57, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I took at the text again, and the problem was not just the uncontested PROD by virtue of nonnotability, but also the fact that the existing text was a copyright violation (it was copied word for word from another website). You can, of course, start the article new in your own words, but please be sure to prove his notability by means of cited, verifiable, reliable sources. Angr (talkcontribs) 21:14, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Tachograph translation[edit]

As per your request on the translations page, I translated and integrated Tachograph from German to English. A whole lot of the German site has to do with German and European law regarding the tachograph, and therefore so does a lot of the English article now. However I did sequestor a little bit of what was part of the main description in the German article into the Regulations section on the English site. I'm still not so sure if the English site needs to have quite so much information on German law, though. The site is here: Tachograph --Ilithios 19:12, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm sure future editors will come along and make it less deutschlandlastig. Angr (talkcontribs) 09:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

a few questions[edit]

First, what's the deal with people saying "and" as [eʌnd]? Second, what accounts for people around here [NW Wisconsin] pronouncing [æl] as [ɛl] in syllables having l as [at least part of] the closing end of the syllable [with the notable exception of the nickname "Al"]? Third, what accounts for the [I'm pretty sure, completely unrelated] pronunciation of such words as "milk" as [mɛlk] or Wisconsin as [wɛ·'skaⁿn·sn̩] (or even the hideous sounding [wɛs·'kʰɑn·sn̩]) instead of the "normal Wisconsin pronunciation" of [wɨ·'skaⁿn·sn̩]? Tomertalk 09:12, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

First, isn't that just normal æ-tensing before a nasal? Doesn't it rhyme with hand and land etc.? Second, I don't know, I'm not an expert in NW Wisconsin accents. Third, I don't know, I'm not an expert in NW Wisconsin accents. Angr (talkcontribs) 09:16, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
First, I'm not sure...perhaps it's just more "obvious" in "and" than in "hand" or "land". Second, I don't expect you to be an expert in NW WI accents, I just thought perhaps you might have encountered a study that discussed [æl] => [ɛl], or even perhaps a more far-reaching review of vowel mutations preceding syllable-closing [l]s. Third, the melk and Wesconsin thing isn't a NW WI phenom, it's something I've noticed in the speech primarily of nonWisconsinites...which is, in fact, why I said I was pretty sure it was unrelated... and seems to be a confusion or merger of [ɪ] and [ɛ] independent of the pin/pen merger. Cheers, Tomertalk 09:31, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't know of any studies off the top of my head, but I do know vowels tend to get mixed up before tautosyllabic liquids (whether l or r). I wouldn't have thought the first syllable of Wisconsin would be sufficiently stressed to be able to distinguish vowels there anyway. Angr (talkcontribs) 09:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

red hair[edit]

removing gallery:

The images are not in context to the sections. Hence they suit to put them into a gallery.

The avatar image disply does not violate the terms of the original publisher (they are intend for website display). "fair usage" is a wrapper to prevent PD usage, and limit it to wikipedia. It is a graphical style and an example for red hairs in graphical styles.

regards. the Y! avatars are available to the public. alex 11:37, 30 April 2006 (UTC) By the way i added to the page discussion (word meaning's).

A gallery would be fine if there were so many images in the article that there's no more room. But there's nothing wrong with a handful of illustrative images along the sides of the article outside a gallery. As for fair use, please read Wikipedia:Fair use for what it's about. In particular, a copyrighted image can be used fairly in an article explicitly about that image or the subject of the image. Its use at Yahoo! Avatars is fair, but its use at Red hair is not, because the article Red hair is not about that image. Angr (talkcontribs) 12:02, 30 April 2006 (UTC)