User talk:April8

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Wessel smedbager05.jpg Karl Rixkens Zeitungsleser.jpg Dou, Gerard - Astronomer by Candlelight - c. 1665.jpg Max Slevogt Francisco d'Andrade Zeitung lesend 1903.jpg Samuel Johnson by Joshua Reynolds 2.png Lesser Ury Leser mit Lupe.jpg Kreutzwald-köler.jpg Conrad von Soest, 'Brillenapostel' (1403).jpg Comic History of Rome p 210 Terence reading his Play to Caecilius.jpg Banc.XIIIe.siecle.png Carl Spitzweg - Der arme Poet (Neue Pinakothek).jpg Scriptorium-monk-at-work.jpg Die Gartenlaube (1872) b 264.jpg

From Daubmir...[edit]

Ciao April8!
Thanks for the long and interesting message, which I very much appreciated, especially the explanations relating to your intense chassidic work on Wikipedia.
It has now been a while that I haven't touched the wiki pages, having stopped all translations/articles -- mainly because of my annoyance with the Italian administrators, who kept interrupting with idiotic and nonsensical observations about editing, encyclopedism, pertinence, et al. Superficiality and cretinism imperant! Having worked hard for a month or so, both translating into Italian (and not only on Chassidism), Spanish, Portuguese, and entering new articles in English - I think I've had enough: the rewards don't equal the frustrations. So, it's adiós amigo!--Daubmir (talk) 20:40, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

(but if you wish to discuss further and wider, you can reach me at my blogs from: Daubmir Nadir)

Breslov edits[edit]

Hi April8, thank you for your thoughtful and considerate comments on my talk page. Regarding my reverts, I cited three reasons: Point of View, Original Research, and Overlinking.

POV = Saying something is the "greatest" is point of view. Saying something is "best-known" is neutral.

OR = I agree with you that we need a page on Sippurei Ma'asiyot. Another editor asked me to write it, but I haven't yet found the time. The reason I deleted your link was because it was red. Sorry. If you really have another page up and running very soon, please feel free to put the link back in so it will be blue from the get-go.

I deleted most of what you wrote about Sippurei Ma'asiyot because it was 1) original research with no references, and 2) wrong. Most people erroneously think of Sippurei Ma'asiyot as Rebbe Nachman's "fairy tales," but they are actually deep, mystical stories that can be read on all levels — pshat, remez, drush and sod. They are not fairy tales, nor were they ever meant to be. After years of teaching profound, kabbalistic lessons drawing on every source in Torah literature (the Likutey Moharan), Rebbe Nachman turned to stories to convey the same message: how to find God. To say that Rebbe Nachman's stories "have roots in midrashic, Kabbalistic and Hasidic parables" is to deny the fact that they are totally original. The only correct line that I saw in your exposition was the idea that Rebbe Nachman's stories influenced secular Yiddish literature — but if that's true, you need a reference. Perhaps after you research the topic, citing sources, you will have something appropriate for Wikipedia.

Overlinking = There is no need to add Reb Noson or Breslov Hasidic dynasty to the "See also" section at the bottom of Rebbe Nachman's page. Ditto for the types of links you added to "See also" sections of the other pages — these links are already embedded in the text. "See also" is for pages that aren't readily identified with the main topic.

Kol tuv, Yoninah (talk) 19:35, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Dear April8: I see you are very sincere about your editing, as well as well-read. It would help me, though, if you would be more concise in your posts on my talk page. It's often hard to follow exactly what you're saying when you write so long.
I have a problem with putting "citation needed" next to something that looks like original research because it has no reference. Anyone who reads the page between the time you put it up and the time someone else changes it will then come away with inaccurate information. If you are able to quote sources that say Rebbe Nachman wrote his stories in the genre of fairy tales, then I won't reverse your edits. But if you want to write a fair and balanced article, you must also include the contention that the secular academicians are wrong. This is a basic principle of Wikipedia — please read WP:Neutral point of view. Yoninah (talk) 19:32, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

From Jimharlow99[edit]

Thank you so much for creating the terrific template for Jewish Philosophy. I'm presently working on populating the relevant areas with content. Once I reach a *final draft* stage I'll send you a note to see if it is sufficiently compatible with your desires.

Kol Tov - Hayyim Yermiyahu ben Yisrael —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimharlow99 (talkcontribs) 02:47, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi April8, Please take a look at the template, now populated, and see if it meets your expectations. Additionally, if you have any constructive and helpful comments to improve the Jewish Philosophy wiki entry please let me know. Jimharlow99 (talk) 18:40, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the constructive commentary, April8, Let me figure out how to create tables this evening and I'll get to work on them. Jimharlow99 (talk) 19:45, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Shalom u'bracha, April8, Thank you for the kind words of encouragement - I'm in the midst of figuring out how to use the table features as well as preparing to submit updates to the wiki bios of the scholars, Rabbis and philosophers cited. Shabbat Shalom, April8.

Jewish Philosophy[edit]

Hello April8, your upgrades to the introduction are definitely an improvement over previous text- to be certain. I had avoided any segmentation of cultures, but clearly that is an important facet of Jewish Philosophy. What would you say to the following edit of your text?

Aprli8's text The Medieval discovery of Greek thought brought Rationalist Philosophy into Biblical-Talmudic Judaism, and competed for the mainstream with the personifications of emerging mysticism. Both schools would become part of classic Rabbinic literature, though the 15th-century Expulsion from Spain and subsequent developments, brought decline to scholastic Rationalism and co-option of its rigour in traditional Judaism by renewed mystical theology. For European Jews, emancipation and encounter with secular thought from the 18th-century onwards altered again how philosophy was viewed. Oriental and Eastern European communities had later and more ambivalent interaction with secular culture than in Western Europe. In the varied responses to modernity, Jewish philosophical ideas were developed across the range of emerging religious denominations. These developments could be seen as either continuations or breaks with the cannonic Rabbinic Philosophy of the Middle Ages, as well as the other historical dialectic aspects of Jewish thought, and resulted in diverse contemporary Jewish attitudes to philosophical methods.

My suggested edits- The medieval re-discovery of Greek thought, combined with the influences of intellectual inquiry by Averroes and Avicenna, brought Rationalist Philosophy into Biblical-Talmudic Judaism, and competed for the mainstream with the personifications of strictly Tanach/Talmudic scholarship and emerging Kabbalah. All three schools would become part of classic Rabbinic literature, though the 13th-century Maimonidean Controversy, and resultant splits within Jewish Communities, brought decline to scholastic Rationalism since too few understood its scholarly, and often abstract, basis. Mystical theology, and esoteric interpretation of Jewish texts, proved a uniformly simpler means of conveying foundational tenets of Judaism to communities who were not, in general, as well-educated as their Rabbis. For European Jews, emancipation and encounters with secular thought from the 18th-century onwards altered again how philosophy was viewed; this re-invigorated philosophic exploration. Oriental and Eastern European communities had later and more ambivalent interaction with secular culture than in Western Europe. In the varied responses to modernity, Jewish philosophical ideas were developed across the range of emerging religious denominations. These developments could be seen as either continuations of, or breaks with, the canonic Rabbinic Philosophy of the Middle Ages, as well as the other historical dialectic aspects of Jewish thought, and resulted in diverse contemporary Jewish attitudes to philosophical methods.

Whatcha think April8? --Jimharlow99 (talk) 16:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Welcome[edit]

Welcome. Or if you have been on Wikipedia for a while, nice to meet you. And especially nice you are a Lubavitcher. (User talk:Debresser)

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Kabbalah[edit]

Your edit "This view is found also in Rationalist Medieval Jewish philosophy..."

NB: It is the common Chabad view that the Rambam was not an Aristotelian rationalist, but was in fact a Kabbalist [1]. Please consider adjusting your change to the Kabbalah article. 173.52.187.133 (talk) 23:16, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the message on my German talk page. --Sängerkrieg auf Wartburg, formerly active using the static IP adress 132.187.3.26. 08:55, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

re: your message[edit]

Hi April8, I've left a reply to your message on my talk page -- Marek.69 talk 19:32, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Lyubavichi[edit]

Thank you for your comments, April! You are right that I removed some of the maps for technical reasons, but some were for stylistic reasons, too. Let me explain.

Wikipedia articles are always about content first, and illustrations are only to complement that content. Illustrations should never be added just for the sake of having something pretty to look at, but also they should never be added to illustrate something that the article does not really cover. In other words, maps and pictures can't be used to convey something, only to supplement something already in the text. Additionally, there is no reason to add multiple illustrations which show basically the same thing, only from a different angle. In such cases, one best illustration should be left, and the rest can be linked to a category in the Commons or wherever else it is appropriate. Finally, images that only have a tangential relevance to the topic should most definitely not be included.

The "technical" reasons for removal included the fact that once the coordinates of a place are specified, our readers can use a great variety of mapping services to study just where exactly a place is located. We shouldn't be second-guessing our readers by inundating them with a bunch of maps to show all kinds of areas near which Lyubavichi is situated, because no matter how many maps we supply, some readers will still not find the one they actually need.

Now, let me go through the images I removed one-by-one and explain why I think each of them does not belong:

  • File:Dnepr in Smolensk.jpg. While Lyubavichi is not too far from the Dnieper, it does not stand on it. The picture is thus irrelevant (and potentially misleading!)
  • File:Smolensk admin divisions.png. Lyubavichi is not shown on this map, and the map is definitely redundant to the location-specific maps available via the coordinates service.
  • File:RR5514-0057R.png. An image of a Smolensk commemorative coin is a fine addition to the article about Smolensk, but it really has nothing to do with Lyubavichi.
  • File:Yauza river (Smolensk oblast).jpg. The Yauza is nowhere near Lyubavichi, and the image caption explains that the view is typical of the oblast, which does not at all guarantee that the landscape around Lyubavichi is going to look anywhere close to this picture. A Lyubavichi-specific landscape image would have been fine; this one is not.
  • File:Un-belarus.png. This is a map of modern Belarus. It is not helpful for exactly the same reasons why the outline map of modern Smolensk Oblast is not helpful.
  • File:Krasnoi.jpg. This picture shows the area of Krasny, not that of Lyubavichi. Misleading.
  • File:Old Mаhiloŭ 1, Biełaruś.jpg. Yes, Lyubavichi was a part of Mogilev Governorate in the past, but that's not a good enough reason to show a picture of Mogilev in the article. Consider that the Governorate had hundreds of villages; if we included a picture of Mogilev in all articles about them, would it be of any help to our readers? A picture of Mogilev belongs in the article about Mogilev, and hardly anywhere else.
  • File:Minard.png. This map would've been a great illustration of the fact that the Napoleon army went through the village; problem is that it does not explicitly show Lyubavichi.

I hope you see now what my reasons were. You mentioned that you'd be interested in expanding this article once you have some free time. If you do that, it would be greatly appreciated. I don't know much about the Jewish history, but, if you looked at my contributions, you would see that I am very interested in the subject of small Russian places "in the middle of nowhere", so I'd be excited to help with other (non-Jewish) aspects. I just want you to understand that my reasons for cleanup were actually pretty good—we want to give our readers information that is relevant, and the information about related topics should go into other articles, to which we can easily link from the text. This is not to diminish your time, effort, and enthusiasm; it's all about how articles are supposed to work in Wikipedia. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:42, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

I have expanded the article a little, added an infobox and several sources. Hope this alleviates some pain over the removed images! :))—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 21:13, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

I look forward to working with you, April. As for the map in the infobox, I am not sure what the problem is. I know sometimes these maps don't show up due to the image loading problems across all Wikimedia sites, but I don't think there are any problems today. The map shows up just fine for me today; I checked the page in two different browsers. If you experience this problem again and have an ability to make a screenshot, that would certainly be helpful. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:55, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Non Free Files in your User Space[edit]

Information.svg Hey there April8, thank you for your contributions! I am a bot alerting you that Non-free files are not allowed in the user or talk-space. I removed some files that I found on User:April8. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your user-space drafts or your talk page.

  • See a log of files removed today here.
  • Shut off the bot here.
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Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 00:01, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

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Welcome and well done[edit]

Hi April8: Your work on the the two templates {{Teshuva}} and {{Jewish philosophy}} was excellent. Thank you. IZAK (talk) 18:30, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

from Mgenuth concerning the article on Rabbi Yitzchak Ginsburgh[edit]

Dear April8. Thank you for the guidance, but I have come to the realization that wikipedia is little more than a sham disguised as a source of knowledge. The reason for this is that after long conversations with Debresser (another power user or editor), i realized that in the interest of preventing legal problems (i.e., in order to remain legally unresponsible for what appears on Wikipedia), the guidelines are to prefer quotes from secondary sources rather than from primary sources. This is simply ridiculous. It saves Wikipedia from being sued for all the defamation that goes on on its pages, but provides the public with skewed, unscholarly, and most importantly, irresonsible information. If someone cannot be held accountable for what they write they can of course write anything they want. The quotes that appear on Rabbi Ginsburgh's entry are a case in point. The quotes are defamatory, not because they provide a certain interpretation of his views, but because they are simply wrong. The so-called scholar who wrote them has little more than rudimentary knowledge of Torah and therefore cannot even begin to understand what he is reading. Not to mention the fact that most of what is quoted from him is not even an intepretation of what Rabbi Ginsburgh has written, but a ludicrous exposition of the author's own incorrect understanding of very basic Torah concepts. In response, I brought actual passages from Rabbi Ginsburgh's books (which I have permission by the author to do) in order to show how ludicrous the views presented by this so-called scholar are. But, these were deleted with again the sad claim that secondary sources are to be preferred. If I had the time and energy I would make it my personal crusade to have Wikipedia's prestige ruined. With guidelines like these, Wikipedia is already the laughing stock of any serious researcher and academic, but this should be made clear to the general public as well who get a great deal of their information from it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgenuth (talkcontribs) 18:09, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits[edit]

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Thanks[edit]

Hi April8, thanks for the article. It is what I was thinking about. Sorry cannot help you with this, kind of busy in real life. Cheers.--Mbz1 (talk) 23:15, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

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Reply[edit]

I replied to your comments on my talk page.Jimhoward72 (talk) 03:35, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Baal Shem[edit]

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See also sections[edit]

We do not put links already present in the article text into the see also section. The see also section is _only_ for related links not already in or easily added to the article text itself. Thanks. Yworo (talk) 03:16, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you![edit]

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You're doing a great job on the article Jewish mysticism. Editor2020 (talk) 18:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Hurufism[edit]

If you may interested on this subject, further info in the following Turkish pages:tr:Hurûfî-Bektâşî inancı 72.192.214.163 (talk) 16:08, 28 April 2013 (UTC) tr:Hurûfî-Bektâşî inancı72.192.214.163 (talk) 16:09, 28 April 2013 (UTC) You may use Google translator to convert to any other languages. I think the idea is very similar. Hurufism try to deduce secret meaning of the message of Qur'an by applying some mathematical means on letters. But then they can deduce any meaning want to. e.g. They concluded that Naimi would be the God or prophet. There is also another Hurufism which is used for "Ottoman literature"72.192.214.163 (talk) 16:29, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

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Nomination of Timeline list of Hasidic leaders for deletion[edit]

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ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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