User talk:Bagumba

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tnx[edit]

hi, im a a great fan of u guys, im a fan of you guys, well can I know what do you guys fell when doing this page and what made it a success

Cheers Anonymous

Precious[edit]

Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

fair play
Thank you, user who "values third opinions and occasionally provides one", for quality articles on Baseball such as Trevor Hoffman and 2011 NBA lockout, for adding innovative ideas, for gnomish project work and for trying to prevent misunderstanding, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:23, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

I gave Precious to Alakzi yesterday, ashamed that I had not done it sooner (as I that was sure I had). I even went to ANI - a place I try avoid. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:53, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
... and even closed as successful! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:07, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Infobox awards[edit]

I am happy to work with you on an infobox honors proposal. However, I think it spans beyond WP:NBA and WP:CBBALL. I think we may want to get WP:BBALL involved, even if after the fact as many international league awards fall into the same general categories. For college awards, I do feel strongly that making a major AA team (first, second or third team) should be listed. I do think there are general categories of awards that should NEVER be listed (regardless of league):

  • Preseason or Summer League honors (eg - Preseason All-American, Summer League MVP)
  • Player/rookie/freshman/coach of the week/month
  • Conference championships of any stripe (possible exception of college coaches and college conference championships)
  • All-Tournament designation
  • MVP of in-season tournament (eg - Maui Classic, Great Alaska Shootout)
  • Team-specific awards (eg - team MVP, team captain)
  • Any designation already in the Infobox (eg - Naismith/FIBA/CBB/Women's HOF, FIBA tournament championships in the medal table).

Also, we need to consider: awards, retired numbers, championships, records, and statistical leadership. What is included/not included? Rikster2 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

You initial list of what not to include seems straight forward. Currently at WP:NBASTYLE#College_and_high_school_highlights, it basically says we don't get too picky about what college stuff is in there until we hit 5 pro items listed, then we want to get more selective to minimize the clutter. Shall we continue with what happens after 5 is reached, or do you think we should just come up with a list for college that applies even if a player does little notable in the NBA?—Bagumba (talk) 23:41, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
@Dirtlawyer1: You're more than welcome to join also.—Bagumba (talk) 23:45, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Template:Men's college basketball award navbox[edit]

WP:NBASTYLE mentions that anything in Template:Men's college basketball award navbox was fine, but I think that was a quick and dirty way to cover everything. In practice, fancruft can creep there, so we should just make our own list and consciously make changes within WP:NBA as needed.

Here's my quick pass:

My take:

  • Always list: Major NPOY (the ones tracked here plus the two defunct awards - UPI, Helms - listed. These are what the NCAA record book lists so I think that's a good place to draw a hard line), Consensus All-American, first- second- or third-team All-American by one of the granting bodies of the consensus teams (if not a consensus pick - this should trump), Conference POY, first-team All-conference, college retired number. Also - NABC DPOY, USBWA Freshman of the Year, Senior CLASS award, HOF awards (Bob Cousy, Jerry West Award, etc), NCAA championships and Final Four MOP, Academic AA of the Year
  • List if infobox not overcrowded (need a cutoff): second- or third-team all-conference, HM All-American, conference specialty awards (Freshman of the year,DPOY, etc), college insider awards (Lefty Driesell, etc), lower postseason championships and MVP (NIT, CBI), conference tourney MVP, NCAA stat leadership for big stat categories (scoring, rebounding, assists, blocks, steals - maybe define as anything that can contribute to a triple double), Academic All-American, Haggerty Award, Geasey Award, conference all-freshman or all-defense.
  • Never list (in addition to those I already laid out): all-district, honorable mention all-conference, conference stat leadership, school or conference HOF, Big Five HOF (or similar), school or conference records.

Also, we need to figure out what High school awards to list and not. Now players come to college with a list of 15 items in their infobox. This doesn't seem appropriate. Rikster2 (talk) 12:46, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

This is still on my to-do list, but will take a back seat for a while.—Bagumba (talk) 16:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

MOS[edit]

Worth noting that an editor has started to try and create a MOS at WP:BASKETBALL. In my opinion there is too much overlap between leagues globally for NBA to have a completely different set of standards. Should be a joint effort. Rikster2 (talk) 11:58, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Probably. As we barely have a rough documented standard on what is current practice w/ NBA at WP:NBASTYLE, I'm not sure if I have the energy to try to actually get people to agree to change things, especially across projects. I have my eye on it, but I'm not currently thinking of being a very active participant.—Bagumba (talk) 17:37, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Fred Hoiberg[edit]

Hello. Regarding the discussion on the talk page for Fred Hoiberg, if you feel that the info should be deleted, I have no objection. My concern was with the pattern of edits by (and complaints elsewhere about) the editor who made the change. My only concern with the particular edit we've been talking about was that it appeared to be a random deletion of well-sourced material. Etamni✉   10:17, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Damian Lillard[edit]

Do you have rights to roll back changes to a specific version? Because a couple of Is have been vandalizing the article today. I can't easily undo the changes. May be worth evaluating if this article needs protection - I undo a lot of crap on it. Thanks Rikster2 (talk) 20:19, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I use Twinkle, which you have access to also. Otherwise, you can just edit that specific version, and save it. I reverted it back and protected for 2 weeks (though it may eventually need longer).—Bagumba (talk) 20:36, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Peace Barnstar Hires.png The Barnstar of Diplomacy
I just want to let you know that while I still disagree with you on the subject that your voice has been calm and reasonable. I know you aren't my biggest fan (seen some of your comments about me elsewhere) but that I appreciated the way you brought your points up and that they are persuasive. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 22:01, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
@Hell in a Bucket: I appreciate the kind words. I do try to focus on content. That being said, and I don't mean to come off as glib, what did I say that gave you the impression that I was disappointed in you personally?—Bagumba (talk) 22:26, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
I may have mistaken you for another editor on WPO, it doesn't bother me because my behaviors are open to criticism too no one is perfect ;) Hell in a Bucket (talk) 22:28, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
@Hell in a Bucket: Probably not me if it's WP:WPO you are referring to. In any event, feel free to come back here if you perceive any disrespect on my part. I would hope it's a simple misunderstanding, but Wikipedia:Civility#Dispute_resolution beats bottled hostility. Thanks again, and happy editing.—Bagumba (talk) 22:41, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Wikipediocracy ;) I didn't take it as such at all, just disagreement. 8) Hell in a Bucket (talk) 22:42, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Page renaming[edit]

While I have no problem with the new names put on multiple baseball list pages, considering I am responsible for the expansion and constant upkeep of a very fair amount of those pages, I would have at least liked to have been involved in the discussion.Taffe316 (talk) 06:58, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

@Taffe316: Admittedly, this did not go through a formal WP:RM with notifications on all pages. On the other hand, it's more than a bold move with a lengthy discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Baseball#Poll_for_naming_convention_for_list_of_leaders.2Fchampions. I'm presuming you don't have WT:BASEBALL on your watchlist? At any rate, consensus can change, so feel free to discuss at WT:BASEBALL if you have concerns.—Bagumba (talk) 07:09, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
@Bagumba: Well first let me say I have no problem with the new page names, but again I just would have liked to have been asked to give my I input, considering all the work I have done to improve and constantly update those pages. So now here's where my question lies. I have created a few other MLB pages, that reflect the (top 100) in the title that has clearly just been voted to have removed. So with that being said, would you prefer I change the names of those lists to reflect the new naming format just implemented? Taffe316 (talk) 07:48, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
@Taffe316: Apologies on my part. I don't actively monitor most of these lists, so I've overlooked your contributions there, and incorrectly presumed that interested parties were also regulars at WT:BASEBALL. As far as specific cutoffs in the list like "top 100", WP:LISTNAME discourages including them in the title: "Many lists are not intended to contain every possible member, but this does not need to be explained in the title itself ... Instead, the detailed criteria for inclusion should be described in the lead, and a reasonably concise title should be chosen for the list." It'd be good if all baseball lists follow the new general naming convention going forward. It would be great if you can make the changes, or I can help if you need. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 07:30, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
@Bagumba: No problem, the remaining list names have been changed to reflect the new format. Taffe316 (talk) 07:48, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

new page[edit]

This has me concerned. Why would we have something different than WP:NBASKETBALL? Rikster2 (talk) 16:53, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I do see this disclaimer: "The player section of this notability guidance has been superseded by WP:Notability (sports), and is included below for information only as a record of the previous guidance that the Footy project came up with." Maybe you can work with them to replace the "similar major professional sports league" in NBASKETBALL. I'm not sure how familiar you are with overseas leagues, but I know it's more than me (almost zilch). The first step would be to get consensus at WP:BASKETBALL, it's debatable whether it needs to actually get into NSPORTS itself—some projects just do the power play that they are the subject matter experts so there is no burden to show that 90% would pass GNG. Personally, I'm skeptical that the highest level in country XYZ automatically gets enough coverage to write about more then signings, and stats lines for a lot of those players.—Bagumba (talk) 17:39, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Looking further, maybe you are concerned with the club and league criteria?—Bagumba (talk) 17:47, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
I am concerned that novice editors would look at this page and think it's the notability criteria for basketball players. it basically says all "fully professional" basketball players meet the notability criteria (like footy). That's not even close to true and there'd need to be a lot of discussion about where these should go. Footy is too loose as it is in my opinion. Also, my experience with this editor tells me he's not the guy who should be driving policy. Rikster2 (talk) 15:51, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
It should be made less prominent, instead of relying on the disclaimer I mentioned. You could make a bold edit, or talk to the other editor.—Bagumba (talk) 16:34, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
I have tried to talk to the editor. As near as I can tell he/she has never communicated with another editor on English Wikipedia (even via edit summary) Rikster2 (talk) 16:54, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
You can take your concerns to WP:BASKETBALL if you didn't want to outright edit it.—Bagumba (talk) 17:34, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
It's fine, I just redirected the link off the infobox on WP:BB to WP:NBASKETBALL. Rikster2 (talk) 17:38, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
The page might fall into the abyss now. For good measure, I put the disclaimer in scary red text.—Bagumba (talk) 17:45, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Request for Administrator intervention[edit]

Dear User:Bagumba. I was at this page trying to figure out how to request Administrative assistance with an obviously looming showdown with Lootbrewed (who has gone on reverting other edits I have made at the page at question even after being notified, knowing they are in the clear since they are reverting first and will out revert me before I am the bad guy) when I received your warning notice on my Talk page.

You can see in my comments on Lootbrewed's Talk page I was very much trying to avert where this has ended up. I am sure you read them before posting your notice there; if not, the above link will take you there.

What is the mechanism for requesting an impartial Administrator to assist? Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 23:40, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

May I suggest following dispute resolution? I did see that you took the first step and initiated a discussion with the other party when it was clear that edit summaries weren't sufficient between you two. However, the reverts continued between the two of you even while the discussion was ongoing. As there was no WP:BLP violations, there really was no urgency for either of you to keep reverting. From a purely administrative point of view, I'd choose to do nothing now. Discuss with each other, or get other editors involved and form a clear consensus (i.e. article talk page, WikiProjects, other ideas at WP:DR). Cheers.—Bagumba (talk) 02:42, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

FYI[edit]

Hi B, I'm sure you've already seen these, but [1] and [2]. This claim is really irking me for being patently false: "Further, I have never been blocked for edit warring (I don't hide my blocks, they're right here on my page) and have never been blocked without a warning." Please note that I'm not criticizing your unblock decision—the incorrectness of the user's statement was bothering me. Regards! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:54, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I'm experimenting with Wikipedia:Unblocks are cheap and Wikipedia:Editors have pride these days (I'm no longer citing that more oft-cited essay). Cheers.—Bagumba (talk) 19:03, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I should have said explicitly that I agreed with your unblock. I just got a bee of truth up my ass. :) Those alternative essays are reasonable. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:06, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
@Cyphoidbomb: And I could have acknowledged that I had seen your original note about it not being a criticism. Thanks for proactively avoiding potential misunderstandings (a novel idea!) WP:GAB is all nice and well intended, but I'm not sure anymore if it's a reliable indicator. I'm going to play around with just stating what the editor did wrong, and allowing more unconditional trust that it won't repeat.—Bagumba (talk) 19:20, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Appreciate your restoring the Talk[edit]

At the Chembox Talk page. Keep an eye briefly, in case that Dutch editor, not understanding that you are an Admin (i.e., not understanding quite how things work), returns and reverts? He already took swipes at me and Doc James tonight… Cheers. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 01:08, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

@Leprof 7272: I've interacted with them in the past, which is how I stumbled on this issue. Let me know if any further assistance is needed. Cheers.—Bagumba (talk) 01:14, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Bravo, and good to meet you. There was a queue of admins looking in, Doc James arriving first. If you have a history with this editor, you should have a look at this before retiring, [3]. See his responses at middle and end of Talk section (to Doc, and me, respectively). Good to meet you—coming across you us a highpoint of a month of effort. Note I also edit from IPs when I travel, and so will stop in later with one of those too. Cheers. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 01:20, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
@Leprof 7272: For whatever reason, they were reverting to the version that restores what was autoarchived. I used a lot of AGF and assumed that they just didn't factor in that they also removed all of your comments in the process, and still didn't realize it (or had too much pride) when you pointed it out. Unless there is more history between the two of you that would imply malicious intent, I'd just assume move on, and say "all's well that ends well".—Bagumba (talk) 01:30, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Could live with that (no formal blocking action), but him shoving off Doc, and swearing, here [4], deserves someone to comment I think. Or to say, if you swear or tell an admin to shove off, again, or revert a Talk again, the consequence will be… I leave it to you, trust your judgment. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 01:54, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
I tend to allow people to blow off steam as long as they aren't destroying things or doing outright personal attacks. I could recommend Wikipedia:Civility#Dealing_with_incivility, but we'd probably run into WP:EHP again. Feel free to consult others, as admittedly everyone has their own style on handling this.—Bagumba (talk) 02:11, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

List of Major League Baseball career wins leaders[edit]

I'm not sure about the name change on what is now List of Major League Baseball career wins leaders, just because it is not a top 100. It is players with 200 career wins or more, so shouldn't it fall under the same category as 500 home run club and 300 save club? Taffe316 (talk) 13:41, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

@Taffe316: When there exists WP:COMMONNAME, i.e. a common term prevalently used in sources to describe a grouping, the preference is to use that natural name for the title, e.g. 300 save club. Otherwise, Wikipedia invents a descriptive name for the list, following WP:LISTNAME. Cutoffs should generally be avoided in the title. For example, in the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Baseball#Baseball_lists_moved, there was agreement that List of Major League Baseball players with 1,000 runs batted in would become List of Major League Baseball career runs-batted-in leaders. Similarly, I thought it was consistent to move List of Major League Baseball pitchers with 200 career wins to List of Major League Baseball career wins leaders. Hope that explains the rationale behind the move.—Bagumba (talk) 16:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Protecting a page[edit]

Is there anyway we can protect List of Major League Baseball career home run leaders so only auto confirmed users can edit it? There's always a good amount of vandalism on it and I'm tired of it. Taffe316 (talk) 01:33, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

@Taffe316: I see the two vandal edits today, but the article looks otherwise stable for the last month. Usually, more vandal activity is needed before page protection is applied, since it potentially affects a lot of users. However, I notice that 24.229.120.178 inserted similar vandalism back in April. Editors are usually dealt with individually without needing to resort to protecting pages. Assuming good faith, I warned the user, as nobody has done that yet. You can also follow WP:R Van the next time you see vandalism, and report individual users at WP:AIV if they do not stop after sufficient warnings. Hope that helps. (BTW: You are following WT:BASEBALL now, and are aware of Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Baseball#Names_for_lists_based_on_single-game_stats, right?)—Bagumba (talk) 01:53, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
I have gotten the page protecting for one week. I'll seek further protection if the vandalism returns. Thanks for your input, I respect you and it's always appreciated. Oh and also, I have invited multiple members of WikiProject Baseball to join in on the new discussion you've started regarding the single game lists. Taffe316 (talk) 04:20, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Batting Average Lists discussion[edit]

Just to let you know, I think I'm going to stay out of this one as my opinion may be considered biased due to the fact that I created one of the articles. Taffe316 (talk) 04:51, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

@Taffe316: Everyone is biased in some way, so you don't have to excuse yourself for being the page creator. All the biases, in theory, will balance out. It'd be a different story if you were in charge of closing the discussion, but you are not. Still, it's your prerogative if you want to kick back and see what others say.—Bagumba (talk) 05:30, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

DYK for John Ecker (basketball)[edit]

Gatoclass (talk) 08:51, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you! He is also featured on Portal:Germany. If you have more DYK related to German, please feel free to enter it there yourself, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:42, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! There was also one for Terry Schofield, but I often stay away from WikiProjects I'm not too involved in, as there are varying interpretations on which subject are in and out their scope. Feel free to include if you wish. Cheers.—Bagumba (talk) 03:47, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I run DYK Germany practically myself, - anything remotely relevant goes, feel free to add (I would like to know if the recipe for doing so is comprehensible), - I have other concerns right now, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:30, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
Without your work expanding the page and providing better rationale than I did in the deletion discussion, David Denson might've been deleted. Thank you for your help. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:53, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

List of Major League Baseball career stolen bases leaders[edit]

Hi Bagumba,

Now that the cutoff of 300 has diminished and it is just based on leaders, how would I go about proving notability here? If the arbitrary cutoff was making it difficult for me to prove notability and this doesn't, then I'd like to possibly try for FL at some point in the near future. Sportsguy17 (TC) 03:08, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Though the title has changed, the list still has a cutoff. For FLs, I would expect this cutoff to be demonstrated to be notable.—Bagumba (talk) 04:00, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
In that case, forget it. It's not worth going through that gauntlet again. If someone else can find something, fine, but I'm not wasting my time on that list again unless I'm making minor factual corrections. Sportsguy17 (TC) 18:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

gal mekel[edit]

please lock gal mekel for ip users, people dont want to wait to be official.thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.86.120.129 (talk) 06:43, 26 August 2015 (UTC)