User talk:Ben MacDui/Archive 7

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Hey there. I know I haven't corresponded with you on your admin coaching page in about a month, but what do you think about running for RfA in the next few days/weeks? I think you're ready. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:39, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'll create and write my nomination statement at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Ben MacDui. If you were offered to be nominated by anyone else in the past, you can ask them if they would like to nominate you now. After that, you can answer the questions and transclude the RfA at WP:RFA. Be sure to answer the questions thoroughly and make sure you have a thorough understanding of administrator-related policies. See WP:ADMINGUIDE, WP:PREP, and WP:GRFA. I'll also be emailing you shortly, so check your inbox. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:31, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I have had such offers in the past, but I trust the individuals won't be offended if you simply proceed as suggested above. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 15:43, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Ignore what I said in the e-mail. I've put up the nomination. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 17:24, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Now live - pls let me know if you see any obvious glitches. Many thanks. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 19:30, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Looks good. Best of luck! Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:31, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Aloha and hello[edit]

I was wondering if you were "C Henderson" as noted(?) here: Image:Kiwi Crag on Rubha Fiola.JPG. You have listed the image as a self created image (released under the GFDL), but stated that C Henderson "equaled" the author. If there is some sort of misunderstanding, please let me know. Mahalo and thank you. --Ali'i 20:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Apologies - this is a little unclear. I am not C Henderson, who is a friend and offered the use of the image. I will arrange for them to send a 'permissions' email to the, (unless you have a different suggestion). Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 20:43, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Please do. That should be sufficient. You can find more at Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission#Declaration of consent for all enquiries (including the type of email your friend should send and where). Thanks! --Ali'i 20:48, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
This has now been requested. I will let you know when I have confirmation that the declaration has been emailed to Permissions. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 18:00, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. Good luck on your request for adminship. --Ali'i 21:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow... that seems like so long ago. Thanks for being on top of things! Mahalo. --Ali'i 17:24, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Your RFA[edit]

Best of luck for your RFA -- TinuCherian (Chat?) - 10:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for a detailed and thoughtful answer to my question in your RfA. I am sorry that my question turned out to be more complicated that I myself anticipated. My own reading of SDC is that speedily deleting a user page would not be warranted in those circumstances. (If a copyvio article is blanked, it might still sometimes be appropriate to speedily delete it, e.g. if there was no salvageable non-copyvio content. In the case of a userpage, if the user blanks the page and removes the copyvio material, the immediate problem is resolved, it is clear that the user is trying to solve the problem and it is likely that the user will put some other content on their userpage later.) However, I am quite impressed with the detailed, well-argued and thoughtful nature of your answer. That is exactly what I would like to see in an admin: someone who will, on one hand, be able to plot a reasoned course of action in dealing with a complicated situation and will not freeze out and, on the other hand, will not make rush judgements or decisions. I have added my vote to the support section and wish you the best of luck with your RfA (which I am sure will succeed) and with being an admin. Regards, Nsk92 (talk) 18:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks to you both. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 18:26, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I've just picked up on your RFA, 69/1 looks promising. If you do the birds of Scotland bit (and you're on the way with the fauna article), let me know if there's anything I can help with. jimfbleak (talk) 12:37, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Will do. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 12:58, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Quotations in cite templates[edit]

Hi MacDui, I see your RfA is going well - congrats. The {{cite web}} and {{cite news}} and probably other templates now put quotation marks around titles automatically. I removed the quotes in Larrys Creek here, more to do. Thought you might want to know, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 02:11, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I know Tony was in favor of abolishing the wikilinked dates as he is against too many links in articles and the links were used just to diplay the dates consistently (and by user preferences). It is OK to either link all dates OR link no dates. If all dates are linked, the dates should still be consistently formatted. See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)#Full_date_formatting. I have an article with all dates linked at FAC now and no one has even mentioned it. Take care, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 12:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
I spoke too soon - Tony himself delinked all of the dates for the article I currently have in FAC (then supported it!). See diff. Off to answer his points and another's too, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Youse RFA[edit]

Congratulations, I'm pleased to let you know that I've closed your RfA as successful, and you're now an administrator! May I suggest you visit the Wikipedia:New admin school to get a few ideas on the best way to start using your shiny new buttons? If in doubt, feel free to give me a shout! Well done and all the best, The Rambling Man (talk) 19:07, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Congrats! Consider taking a look at {{admin dashboard}}, it should help you settle into your new role and give you plenty of things to do with your new (shiny) buttons. –xeno (talk) 19:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations MacDui on a nearly unanimous RfA! I wish you the best of luck as an administrator, and feel free to contact me whenever you have a problem or need consultation. Regards, Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:28, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Echoing the above, congratulations, and My apologies for not making it to your RFA - I would have Strong Supported as well. Also, on an unrelated note - we have an admin dashboard? Why does no one tell me these things? UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 19:33, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, congratulations on your successful RfA and good luck! Regards, Nsk92 (talk) 19:34, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Sorry I missed your RFA - you would've had my full support. Congratulations on the new buttons! --Jza84 |  Talk  20:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Many thanks folks. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 20:29, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry to say that I missed your RfA, but congratulations on your success. Warofdreams talk 22:46, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Best o' luck! Bearian (talk) 00:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations! Let me know if I can ever be of help - I did find the Admin school exercises to be useful practice. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 00:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations,Ben MacDui on your successful RFA. Have fun the 'power buttons' a.k.a the mop. You may occasionally delete the main page... :) Just Kidding... Best wishes -- Tinu Cherian - 04:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh no, Don't delete the main page! UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 17:46, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations and all the best! --Bhadani (talk) 16:57, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Your RfA[edit]

Congratulations on your successful RfA. You seemed like an outstandingly qualified candidate, and I believe that you will be a top-notch admin. Cosmic Latte (talk) 14:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Good luck with the buttons fae a fellow Scotsman ;) weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 15:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Congrats! Ecoleetage (talk) 20:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Many, many congrats! All the best, Lradrama 21:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
The admins' T-shirt.

Congratulations on your successful RfA! Do everything you're supposed to and nothing you're not! :) Make sure to check out the new admin school. Good luck and feel free to ask me if you have any questions. GlassCobra 16:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I send my belated congratulations as well. I've been meaning to write to say that although LoCE has collapsed, I haven't (yet). If you should ever desire a bit of copyediting, just send me a note. I really appreciated your help with Basin, Montana, especially the question about its history before 1850. That question led to improvements not only on the Basin article but on several others I've worked on. Finetooth (talk) 17:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the note Ben, congratulations! Use the mop well! Steven Walling (talk) formerly VanTucky 18:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Cheers for the note, and best wishes in your admin work. ;) Congratulations - Ncmvocalist (talk) 19:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

No problem, congratulations on the success! -- Ynhockey (Talk) 19:13, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

A well deserved success. Very best of luck, not that you'll need it. Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Congrats :D I'm sure you'll be a wonderful admin! NuclearWarfare (talk) 19:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

It was my pleasure, and congratulations! Jayjg (talk) 21:49, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Well done Ben! Great work! Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:33, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

copy editor needed for Kirkcaldy article[edit]

i recently undertook a huge revamp of the Kirkcaldy article, but it needs a lot of help with copy editing since my own wording has caused a bit of concern from the use of sources. are you able to help with this, MacDui! link is provided below:

Kilnburn (talk) 21:12, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd be happy to help although I am a bit stretched at present. If I haven't had a look in say a week give me a shout. Ben MacDui 21:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

just me, here to remind you to do some copyediting work if you can on the Kirkcaldy recent as yesterday, i put the article under a peer review (although i have still to get feedback) one user has advised me on areas of weakness which include: to shorten the introd; cutting down the number of sections (i knew this would be a problem, maybe you could help) and getting someone if you can to give the article an overall check across all sections. although i'm very pleased with my work, i do think a certain weakness lies in the last paragraph of Growth and Development starting: "During the 20th century" which could be better addressed, i basically summed up several points into one short paragraph. if you can do this for me, then it will be much appreciated. Kilnburn (talk) 01:57, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


All the best for your success...Modernist (talk) 16:59, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


Hi, Ben, and thanks for your edit & reasoning on the Saint's ladylove; it wasn't a great choice on my part and there's a pretty good chance your approach is the better one.
On the other hand, there are three problems with the Holm (small islet) entry:

  1. The simple one is that you can't have two blue lks in a Dab entry. There may be a clever workaround involving two entries, but i suspect that would just make the more complex 3rd problem stand out more like a sore thumb.
  2. A Dab entry can't be piped unless it targets a section within an article rather than the whole article.
  3. Dabs are neither articles nor lists, and a Dab-page entry that coincides with a dict-def almost always reflects a misunderstanding of what Dabs are for.
    Dabs are not articles bcz a Dab's purpose is not to present information: rather -- when a user comes to its title, bcz it could reasonably have been the title of the article on the topic they seek (subject, of course, to the special condition that it is at least roughly as reasonable for that title to be the title of at least one other article instead) -- the Dab's purpose is to get them to that article as quickly and effortlessly as feasible.
    Tho they look a bit like WP lists, that's not what Dabs are either: a list pg presents a compilation that is the list's reason for being, while a Dab merely accomplishes a navigational task that can't be efficiently done w/o a compilation whose text has roughly the same layout as a list. A user has to be really unlucky to reach the end of the Dab, unless they are playing, have never paid attention to what the Dab template says, or are there to clean up the Dab.
    Dab entries are almost never dictdefs bcz the purpose of any entry is not to inform the user about the topic, but to enable them to quickly rule out the entries that are not on their topic of interest. Thus link-only entries like The Grapes of Wrath (film) are applauded bcz no more information is needed by those who are seeking it, and those who are looking for the novel can rule it out. The situations that call for seeming exceptions are like
    * The Grapes of Wrath, novel
    which is valuable, lest those seeking the film hesitate over the possibility that two editors titled (via various possible mishaps and circumstances) the articles on two identically titled films The Grapes of Wrath (film) and The Grapes of Wrath.) Likewise, if we had an article Spy-catcher on the memoir by Oreste Pinto, Spycatcher (disambiguation) should probably include (assuming no movies)
    * Spy-catcher, 1952
    * Spycatcher, 1987

In light of all that, i'm undoing that part of yr two-edit session.
That being said, how else can the relevant information on those two pages be made more accessible? In a sense, the most obvious answer to that is that if the information on the topic of holms in those two articles is worth a Dab entry, then it is worth a page that distills that info into an article or list. (I don't think i'd ever say "If you think it is, then you should write it." But i don't think the fact that no one has done it can justify lks that implicitly mean "you could dig out the small percentage within these articles that applies", any more than we tolerate ext lks whose URLs are Google searches for Web pages.)
If someone should have sufficient interest, it's not inconceivable to me that an article Holm (islet) could be written; its entry on the accompanying Dab might end up in a context like this:

* Holm (islet), Scottish sense
* Holm (island), Danish sense

Much easier, but more awkward to title would be Scottish islands with holm in their Scottish names, since "islet" is too vague to draw the line about which are included, and List of islands of Denmark includes at least Bornholm, big enuf that i could almost spell its name correctly from memory, and some of them probably have Holm in their Scottish names. (But one could probably at least start Islands with holm in their Scottish names by putting, in one section the Ork. and Shet. ones, and in another, one such Danish island plus an {{tl:expand}} tag.
--Jerzyt 05:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

  • Thanks for taking the time to provide such a clear explanation. I can't disagree - I think I was hoping to have found a way to WP:IAR. I presume if/when Holm (islet) is created, it could become a "See also" at Holm and vice-versa. Incidentally, I have been idly thinking of a way to cause consternation by proposing a new 'Featured disambiguation page' (or perhaps more realistically a 'Really quite exemplary dab page') :). My colleagues and I at WP:ISLE are rather proud of Linga (disambiguation) for example. Your eagle-eye would be welcome if you want to take a visit - especially as it could be a template of sorts for 'Holm (islet)'. Ben MacDui 10:44, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
    • PS I have started Holm (island). Ben MacDui 12:11, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
      • I went thru, rem'g lks that are there, but are not for the could-have-been articles that the users seeking Holm are looking for; IIRC there used to be a vague "unless needed for..." clause about extraneous lks by way of clarification, but even then it needed very sparse use, and i think the new language reflects far too many editors having wanted to apply it as a means to get more content on a topic, anywhere they could. As with the "dictdef" lead sent, remember that the Dab page is for navigation to, not provision of, information.
        On that same theme, i started lk-ifying text-only entries (starting at the bottom!), before realizing how many there are; the proper approach is red links for those for which articles are reasonably feasible, and omission of the rest. (Eponyms of the kiwi is my effort to preserve information that would otherwise have been lost in a Dab cleanup, and the deletion discussion (in progress) is far more interesting than the article. In particular, look at Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Set_index_articles which falls somewhere between Dabs and lists; i'm heartened (even tho it's off-topic in the point of view of most of the discussants) that no one is arguing that either a Dab or a list with the same "base title" would exclude the other's existence.)
        There is some brewing controversy about whether a Dab can have a Dab-suffixed title, but IMO you shouldn't pay any attention to that, in this context.)
        The ability to mention items that have no articles is one of the reasons that i suggested articles and lists; i'm inclined to defend a version of Holm (island) where there are no text-only entries, as a Dab, but you may want to keep thinking about something besides a Dab, that can be more complete. (I presume you know how to get the markup for a previous version, rather than starting from scratch). I'll leave those text-only entries alone for now, in case you find yourself moved to pick out & rd-lk the likely future articles.
        --Jerzyt 23:28, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
    • Thanks for saying so; i usually worry that i'm saying way too much.
      As to IAR, its not widely applicable and much safer than it sounds, bcz it applies when there's a good reason, and most of the rules are pretty good reasons in themselves. In this case, i'd stand up for the reasons-not being better ones, along with the availability of alternatives.
      --Jerzyt 23:28, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
      • I've got the logic - except at the top and tail. "Holm may refer to" - but it may also refer to entities other than islands, so wouldn't it be better to state "Holm in an island context may refer to:" and why isn't it helpful to add Holm to 'See also'? It is very difficult to know which of the numerous small Holms might have articles in future, so I think I'll just delete the black links except in a few cases. There are quite a few more blue links to add. Ben MacDui 09:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
        • I agree with you about the top; i've used similar language, and at the moment i can't think of a better wording. As to the tail, my logic is that no one comes to Holm (island) unless they're looking for islands. On the other hand, what you're suggesting logically parallels the practice of putting a HatNote Dab on articles where the title has a dab'n suffix. Many of us are sure it's clutter, but there's no consensus for that, and somewhere it says there is none. My advice is don't do it, but knowing you've thot abt it, if it's there or you add it, i'm probably going to remember not to revert that particular one!
          --Jerzyt 05:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Your recent RfA[edit]

Hi Ben MacDui, congratulations on your recent promotion to adminship. :) Anyway, I just wanted to say that I was going to support your RfA, but by the time I was going to support it, it had closed. Consider this a "post-closure" support from me. :) Best wishes. Acalamari 18:46, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Cheers - your kind comment entitles you to a free doodlesack. Please feel free to help yourself to this now deprecated extravagance here. Ben MacDui 19:00, 24 July 2008 (UTC) PS I wonder if you are familiar with your evil cousin, the Despair Squid.
Yep, I know him. He's been swimming in the prat part of the sea for the last four years; set a record doing it. :) Acalamari


Hello, congratulations on your RFA. I only saw you when looking on Le Grand Roi's talk page. I usually don't look at RFA. Sorry for not voting for (or against) you. Spevw (talk) 23:01, 26 July 2008 (UTC)19:14, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Anna Willard[edit]

Thanks for the heads-up on my mistake! I cut and paste to copy formatting from another article and forgot to change the simplest part. --JamesAM (talk) 20:53, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

DYK - Cystopteris dickieana[edit]

Updated DYK query On 7 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cystopteris dickieana, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Mifter (talk) 03:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey, congrats on the DYK! I was particularly fond of this edit summary XD delldot talk 03:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Couldn't resist it! Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 09:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

GA nomination for Geography of Newfoundland and Labrador[edit]

Thank you for a thorough and thoughtful review of the article. You make soem good points and picked up on some things I missed. I know form experience it's all to easy to miss your own mistakes. I will work on the noted alterations. Silverchemist (talk) 17:00, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Real life caught up with me (I had to complete two papers for an upcoming conference) so I didn't get back to this as quickly as I had hoped. The edits you suggested for Geography of Newfoundland and Labrador are complete. Silverchemist (talk) 03:45, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your suggestions. Silverchemist (talk) 17:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
You are every welcome, and congratulations. Gros Morne National Park sounds fascinating, but I don't think the St Johns tourist board will thank you for providing the climate information! Ben MacDui 07:50, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Wild things[edit]

Yes, please do. Finetooth (talk) 15:50, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Garbh Eilean (disambiguation)[edit]

I hope my edit didn't come across as too brash. On a side note, I'm sure you're aware the information isn't lost forever, as it can be retrieved (and even undone) through the article's history. However I think you agree with my interpretation of the DAB guidelines that these pages should contain links to relevant wikipedia articles.

I don't know how much time you want to put into this, but I think the best solution would be to write individual articles on each Garbh Eilean. I'm sure most would be {{Highland-geo-stub}}s, but having the coordinates should help you make a nice {{Infobox Scottish island}} for starters. Maybe you could delegate some of the work to WP:HOLM members.

Most editors are not fans of lists, but I think your List of islands called Garbh Eilean is a fine idea, and external links would be OK on such a page. I also like your project page idea, but I'm not sure how useful it would be to others if it were "hidden" from the main namespace. Hoof Hearted (talk) 20:01, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


As I said to the other geser, it's a crap reference, and no reference is better than a crap one. It's a "reference" from a tourist authority - not a bunch of people normally associated with geological expertise. As for the second reference, who knows, it's offline. So here's a real reference Now I'm going to put this one in, when I've figured out how to do it. Mister Flash (talk) 16:05, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, no reference is not better than a poor one. Please see WP:V. Secondly, whilst the tourist board is not an ideal reference, Con Gillen is a professional geologist. I will check on his work in detail asap and provide page references. You may also wish to see Geology of Scotland. Thirdly the reference you suggest may be from a professional body, but they are not geologists either, and nor do they contradict the claim.
Fourthly, references from a web source ideally include the author, the title, the publisher and the date or retrieval. In this case there is not an individual author, but we should also add the helpful '(pdf)' as some browsers don't show the icon. Thus you would use:
<ref>[ "Maritime Traffic Survey 2004:The Hebrides and St Kilda. Report No: 03NR344/G"] (pdf) Maritime and Coastguard Agency. Retrieved 25 July 2008.</ref>
This would look like[1]:
  1. ^ "Maritime Traffic Survey 2004:The Hebrides and St Kilda. Report No: 03NR344/G" (pdf) Maritime and Coastguard Agency. Retrieved 25 July 2008.
Please note that if you attempt to use the above as an alternative to Gillen I will remove it on the above grounds. Further discussion about this subject should be continued at Talk:Hebrides. If you would like more help with references I'd be happy to assist and you can reply here. Regards, Ben MacDui 16:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Spacecraft attitude control[edit]

The talk about Eigenvector slew with you as editor:

This (Spacecraft attitude control)seems to be a subject that is treated surprisingly little in Wikipedia! There is an article Attitude dynamics and control that is a start but neither "3 axis stabilisation" nor "slew" is explicitly mentioned! This article is a start but:

it pretends that attitude control of ships, aircraft and spacecraft have anything in common that could be treated in one single article (in reality it is just about spacecraft!)

neither "3 axis stabilisation" nor "slew" is explicitly mentioned (what I would like to reference from the "Eigenvector slew" article)

Any special editor in charge of this domain? Could the autor of Attitude dynamics and control be pursuaded to expand the subject a bit?

Stamcose (talk) 18:42, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I think your best bet is to ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spaceflight - the project has about 45 members so hopefully one of them could assist. An alternative might be Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Physics which includes Delta-v in its domain. Ben MacDui 19:11, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Greater Glasgow[edit]

i have submitted a proposal for the wikiproject Greater Glasgow here and if you are interested please add your name to the support section.Andrew22k (talk) 18:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

here is the proposal for the wikiproject. I know you are just wanting to help start the wikiproject and thanks but what do you mean by a vote? are you going to put your name in the support section?Andrew22k (talk) 21:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

yes i understand i do need your support for the proposal Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Wikiproject_WikiProject_Greater_Glasgow.Andrew22k (talk) 20:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Closer than you think[edit]

Thanks - the funny thing is that article was written by one Wikipedian with a strong Pennsylvania connection at the request of another for an article on what is currently the oldest Pennsylvania state park. In a further tidbit from the Department of Almost Useless Information, at least one city in Pennsylvania has a neighborhood known as Grampian Hills (not quite mountains). Take care, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 19:06, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

In which case don't forget Scotia, Pennsylvania and that place up north. I must warn you that your new allies have tried this before in Pennsylvania, with results that were that not what they desired. Don't forget Pennsylvania has been kind to poor immigrants too. ;-) Ruhrfisch ><>°° 19:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
So I was watching the opening ceremony of the Olympics in Beijing and kept hearing a bagpipe playing Scotland the Brave while athletes from different countries marched in - I knew the Icelandic national anthem has the same melody as God Save the Queen, but I had no idea that the anthems of Burkina Faso and Vanuatu shared the Scots melody. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 15:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Somebody's been at the electric soup - I looked at Une Seule Nuit and Yumi, Yumi, Yumi (as opposed to Yummy Yummy Yummy) and neither seem to resemble Scotland the Brave. Ben MacDui 16:41, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
User:Dtbohrer has found an explanation of sorts here. I must confess I could not recall which countries were marching when Scotland the Brave was playing (except it was not one with a Scottish contingent) and picked two countries with non-Scots sounding names (Nunuvat is not a country or I'd have picked it too). I will weigh in the species capitalization debate - thanks for the heads up. Worlds End State Park uses it too, as will Leonard Harrison State Park when it gets to FAC (still being tuned up now, in PR). Take care, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 17:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


Hello. As a member of Wikipedia/scotland do you think it is a posibility for a Inventions added to the scotland article. Like the TV , Tire , Telephone ? -- (talk) 22:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

No idea why you are asking me here. Just raise the idea at Talk:Scotland. Ben MacDui 07:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Scotland during the Roman Empire DYK[edit]

Updated DYK query On 5 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Scotland during the Roman Empire, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Congratulations! PeterSymonds (talk) 19:13, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Great work, MacDui! I enjoyed reading the article. :) Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks folks. Ben MacDui 19:36, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK: Wheelhouse (archaeology)[edit]

Updated DYK query On 10 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Wheelhouse (archaeology), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--PFHLai (talk) 20:41, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


Yes, I'd be happy to copyedit Fauna of Scotland. I'll get to it soon, starting today or tomorrow. Finetooth (talk) 18:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar; I truly appreciate it. The awful extermination list reminded me of the extreme fur-trapping hereabouts in the 19th century, the destruction of riparian habitat (partly linked to beaver extermination), and the recent appearance of dead zones along the Oregon coast. Ow, ow, ouch! Finetooth (talk) 17:12, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Iona Abbey, et al[edit]

Hello MacDui, I just wanted to mentioned that you should feel free to discard any images (maps come quickly to mind) that are better left out of the article - no offense will be taken: I thought that something was better than nothing, and so added the (poor quality) maps, hoping for something better in the fullness of time. This applies elsewhere as well, and to text as well as images, and you need not wait a "respectful time" before doing so. BTW, some good cartography would be a big plus ... they substantially improve the understanding of article topics. Also, I wanted to bemoan the fact that intentionally staying out of "wiki oversight" areas means that I sometimes miss significant events ... congratulations on the admin job, wikipedia is lucky to have you. Best Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 23:11, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

No probs - and many thanks. The gallery solution is not ideal, but I think it will work for now and the images can be re-situated when the article is expanded. One day I will will learn to create maps - or we will find the map equivalent of Geograph, but for now its certainly a lack in most articles. Ben MacDui 07:35, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Captial idea[edit]

I asked members of WikiProject Protected Areas to weigh in on the species capitalization discussion at the MOS talk page. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 16:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


Pine Creek from Otter Vista, horizontal.JPG <font=3> Thanks again for your support and comments - Leonard Harrison State Park made featured article today!
Take care, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:25, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Colton Point and Leonard Harrison State Parks Map.png

I will copy the first sentence discussion to the article talk page in a bit and see if we can come up with consensus for a better opening line. Will also try to make some PR comments on Fauna of Scotland. Thanks againRuhrfisch ><>°° 11:25, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Choess pointed out in FAC that the Modern era section was a bit awkward. I was going to fix it in FAC but was pleasantly surprised last night. Now my reorganization is done - I moved the Nessmuk PHMC marker into the Lumber section, all the other changes are in the Modern era. Let me know what you think please. I am also asking Dincher (of course), and Choess and Finetooth to take a look since they supported at FAC too. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 17:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations of course. In the revision: "latrines at the overlook and campground, addition of showers at the campground,". Shouldn't it be "the addition", or is this yet another example of Pennsylvania English? Any comments on my final suggestion at WP:MOS, animals etc.? Ben MacDui 17:38, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
It sounds OK either way to my ears, so I added "the" - thanks. Churchill said something like America and Britain were two countries separated by a common language (but then his mother was a Yank). I also supported your proposal at the MOS. I was a bit distracted with the FAC, sorry. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:53, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Per your suggestion, there is a suggested revised lead sentence for Leonard_Harrison_State_Park at Talk:Leonard_Harrison_State_Park#Suggested_lead_revision. WOuld you mind looking at it and weiging in? Thanks, as always, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:50, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


All i know regarding the meaning of the name is that ive seen it translated as "The mountain of the fords" several times. Unless its a "Baile Ailein" or "Bagh a Chaisteal" or "Carlabhaigh" or any other Gaelic name with an obvious meaning im pretty clueless. I'm not saying your sources are necessarily entirely invalid - in terms of historical etymology perhaps they are correct, i dont know - but the version of the name they provide certainly isnt what people actually use and it returns only 5 hits, all of them wikipdia, on google compared to thousands for Beinn nam Faoghla. In terms of references the online dictionary provided by Sabhal Mor Ostaig gives three versions which are Beinn a' Bhaoghla, Beinn na Faoghla and Beinn nam Fadhla. Other references are plentiful [1], [2], [3], Encyclopedia Britannica, Ordnance Survey maps etc etc. siarach (talk) 20:42, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

OK - I'll check 'em out. Ben MacDui 08:33, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
I've had a go at this. Any idea what Beinn a' Bhaoghla and Beinn nam Fadhla mean? SMO's dictionary may well provide the answer, although this is not clear to poor Sassenachs. Ben MacDui 20:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Both Beinn nam Fadhla and Beinn a' Bhaoghla kick around, including Beinn na bhFaoghla. According to Iain Mac an Tàilleir [4] of the School of Scottish Studies, it's probably originally from Peiginn nam Fadhla "pennyland of the (sea) fords" (Benbecula is all flat), later re-interpreted to Beinn nam Fadhla and Beinn a' Bhaoghla. Fadhla itself is a declined form from Gaelic fadhail, which is a loan from Norse vaðill "shallows" (MacBain, A. (1911) An Etymological Dictionary of the Gaelic Language). Want me to put that in? Akerbeltz (talk) 23:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
By all means - looks like we have another etymology section! Ben MacDui 07:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL ok done. IMHO we should remove the "other interpretations", that's clearly someone trawling through a dictionary, both are nigh impossible from a phonological POV. I've split the text into 3 sections, feel free to move or rename the sections if that's contrary to normal island layout but the etymology bit doesn't sit very well within the main text body. Akerbeltz (talk) 16:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Somehow I got distracted but I'll take another look this wk/end. Ben MacDui 17:33, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Edinburgh Zoo[edit]

Thanks very much for taking the time to give me a heads up on the status of this article. I appreciate your help. i've tried my best to resolve the issues you mentioned, we'll see what happens now. Thanks. --Brideshead(leave a message) 18:58, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: Coats[edit]

A fair comment, but all is not as innocent as it first appears... I'm lucky enough to have a fan amongst the ranks! Take a look at the history, and you'll see [5]. It's the double indef-banned User:Yorkshirian, who you may remember as User:The Cavendish, User:Fone4My or User:Uk4ever (take your pick!). I suspect the latter two comments after that diff, are also by Yorkie, to disguise the change. Hope that explains away any concerns. --Jza84 |  Talk  19:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Not sure I follow how you can be sure, but I am happy to take the above at face value. Thanks for the prompt reply. Ben MacDui 17:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I was wrong. But apologied to the gentleman in question. My bad... --Jza84 |  Talk  21:16, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Re:Reich des Bösen[edit]

I have to be frank with you Ben, I don't get excited about this topic and I might struggle to work up motivation, thus disappointing thee. That being said, I write tons about bishops that throw me to sleep, so maybe. There is a lot of good reconstructive stuff about warfare and society in this period in James Fraser's book Mons Graupius. I would though have issues with using Alistair Moffat so heavily as a source without verifying his information from decent sources. In the meantime I'll search for what I can on JSTOR etc and pass the info on. Regarding the name. Alright ... say some user creates an article Scotland in the Iron Age ... would you think it should be merged? Can we really have both articles without making wikipedia look more like a magazine than encyclopedia? I don't think so ... not at least unless there was some carefully constructed symbiosis between the two. This would involve of course expanding the article a tiny bit in chronological scope, but not really in thematic scope (which for these eras matters more), and if I were to look at the article as it is without a title I wouldn't be surprised by the scope. I do promise to give you feedback on it soon, and we can go from there at least. All the best, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 18:38, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. Any additional sources are very welcome, I have no objection to verifiable alterations to Moffat, and if it doesn't grab you, no matter. It should be a fairly straightforward GA. As for "Scotland in the Iron Age", it would be possible to drone on at length about roundhouses, brochs and wheelhouses and only mention Hadrian et al in passing. Were this article to be created the Picts section of "Scotland during" could possibly be reduced. Just out of curiosity, when would you place an end to the Iron Age in Dalriada/Pictland? Ben MacDui 19:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice[edit]


As a regularly contributing UK Wikipedian, we were wondering if you wanted to contribute to the Oxford bid to host the 2010 Wikimania conference. Please see here for details of how to get involved, we need all the help we can get if we are to put in a compelling bid.

We are also in the process of forming a new UK Wikimedia chapter to replace the soon to be folded old one. If you are interested in helping shape our plans, showing your support or becoming a future member or board member, please head over to the Wikimedia UK v2.0 page and let us know. We plan on holding an election in the next month to find the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board who after obtaining charitable status will start the fund raising, promotion and active support for the UK Wikimedian community for which the chapter is being founded.

You may also wish to attend the next London meet-up at which both of these issues will be discussed. If you can't attend this meetup, you may want to watch Wikipedia:Meetup, for updates on future meets.

We look forward to hearing from you soon, and we send our apologies for this automated intrusion onto your talk page!

Addbot (talk) 19:29, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Jarlshof GA[edit]

No problem at all. You were lucky though, you got reviewed fast because I recognized the word "jarl" and it piqued my interest, a lot of others have been waiting almost a month to get assessed. If you really want to thank me, go do a couple reviews off of WP:GAN, the list is backlogged beyond all rational belief. --erachima talk 09:08, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

More golden eagle photos - free on Flickr[edit]

head shot - probably captive

in flight against grass background - definitely captive

in flight in Scotland. Wonderful photo of Ardnamurchan, but bird too small

in flight, not sure of the species though Probably OK, but

in flight but Germany - Fauna of Scotland lead now proudly displays this fine German bird.

Let me know if you want any of these uploaded to Commons - Ruhrfisch ><>°° 10:52, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Goodness, that was quick. I am just dashing out to see if I can tempt one into the garden and take a picture of it. I'll look at these when I get back. Ben MacDui 10:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

They were there of course, but flew away before I could find the camera. Many thanks again. Ben MacDui 09:35, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


:). Now, we need to discuss what can be boiled down for the politics section, and what should be put onto the background of Johnson's Journey. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm in the middle of another FAC, and I have some GA sweeps to deal with so I'm a bit pressed for time right now. Pls feel free to remove any extraneous material on the talk page in the meantime. I'll watch the article and make comments if need be. Ben MacDui 15:30, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Prehistoric Orkney[edit]

Updated DYK query On 9 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Prehistoric Orkney, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 20:33, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Great job with Prehistoric Orkney![edit]

Hello -- I saw that you created the article Prehistoric Orkney and I wanted to tell you how excellent the article alrady is despite having existed for less than a week. Please, keep up the good work! -- (talk) 00:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to you both. Ben MacDui 07:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


Just saw Fauna of Scotland made FA - congratulations! Ruhrfisch ><>°° 03:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations from me too. Delighted to see it. Finetooth (talk) 03:53, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Many, many thanks to you both - it's a pleasure to work with you, as always. Ben MacDui 08:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
More of the same! It looked like it was an easily promoted topic. Good job. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:16, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Congrats and thanks for the red deer. Dincher (talk) 21:27, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks too - I will hold it deer dear Ruhrfisch ><>°° 23:04, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
PS The Neanderthal image in the Prehistoric Scotland gong was deleted :( Ruhrfisch ><>°° 02:04, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I tried to replace it but I couldn't immediately find it in your User space. 50px should do the trick. Ben MacDui 07:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks so much - I put it in my barnstar collection here. Would it be a WP:COI for the second tallest mountain in Scotland to write about the Geology of Scotland? ;-) Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:31, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Not any more than it would be for a Hom. sap. User to write about biology. You may have noticed that I avoid writing about my neighbours tho'. Why - are you thinking about contributing List of fish in north European rivers, Magnets of Pennsylvania or similar? Ben MacDui 15:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I must confess my first article here was stir bar. My only defence is that it was before I knew of COI. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 19:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


dude, you rock. Ling.Nut (talkWP:3IAR) 01:28, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't have put it better myself (: jimfbleak (talk) 05:26, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Ah, Ling.Nut, you are kind and funny, not to say prescient. Ben MacDui 11:10, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Palm trees[edit]

Hi, thanks for your edits to Gigha...

About the Ardminish image, that is not a palm tree. You can see these things masquerading as such in many resorts in the British Isles, including freezing ones! The tree in question is more closely related to the lily family than palms. It's called the New Zealand Cabbage Tree. They're often misidentified as palms - in the IOM they call them "Manx Palms". They're nothing of the sort - just a marketer's dream!--MacRusgail (talk) 13:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

"It is also widely planted as an ornamental tree, in New Zealand and also in western Europe (including the British Isles) and the Northwest coast of the United States[1]. Because it tolerates cold weather better than many other tree-sized monocots, this plant is often planted by people wishing to give a tropical, exotic look to their yards or gardens. The overall visual effect is said by many to create a view reminiscent of a palm tree (it is occasionally even mis-named "Cornish palm", "Torbay palm" or "Manx palm" in the British Isles due to its extensive use within Torbay and as the official symbol of that area under its alternative identity, the English Riviera). "

Flickr tool[edit]

THanks for the heads up on the Flickr upload tool - I am pretty sure I have used it (or an earlier version of it) via a more circuitous route at Commons (there was a try this new service link for a while). Nice to have a direct link to it, thanks Ruhrfisch ><>°° 23:10, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Basques[edit]

MacDui, there's an edit war going on at the List of Basques, mostly down to this chap going over the top with his nationalist thinking - I don't know if there's anything that can be done but would appreciate it if you could take a look (the last few threads on the talk page should give you a good idea of what's going on). Cheers! Akerbeltz (talk) 19:20, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry not to be able to return the many favours I owe you but this difficult subject is not really my area of expertise. I can only suggest that if the problem continues that you visit Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention for some assistance. There is a simple method of requesting this and hopefully the folk there will be able to provide some sage advice backed up by precedent and experience. I'll also ask one of the project members to take a look at it. Ben MacDui 19:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Ok cheers for pointing me in the right direction! Akerbeltz (talk) 19:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I saw your post to Ling.Nut: User:Catalan may be able to help, or he may know someone who can. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:45, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Ben MacDui 19:50, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Just thought of one more: User:Raystorm. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Places in Highland[edit]

Got your message. I think there's probably loads of these places on the map that existed at one point, and then disapeared, for various reasons, like clearences, but still remain on maps and gazeteers. Pretty much all the data in that list of lifted from maps, question is how do you tell, those places which are no longer existing. Could be quite a hassle identifying them. Whats a prod? scope_creep (talk) 02:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

The easiest way to determine this is by looking at the Ordnance Survey map. If you are at all familiar with them its usually fairly clear from that. Secondly, you could try a Google search. If all that come up are the "List of UK village" advertising sites and such like its probably non-notable. It may be a hassle identifying them, but its also a hassle removing or re-directing them! A "prod" is a "Proposed deletion" - see WP:PROD - sorry about the jargon. Cheers, Ben MacDui 09:45, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


Updated DYK query On 21 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article East Loch Tarbert, Argyll, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thank you for your contributions! - Mailer Diablo 07:29, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


Hi, that not the farm. I think the farm your looking at is, is the one up Sutherland, at 58:3.8229N 4:14.8485W. The village in question, is located close to Roybridge, near Spean Bridge, which is along the road from [Fort William]]. Hope that helps. scope_creep (talk) 16:41, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

If you can give me an OS reference or "Get-a-Map' url I'll look at it - otherwise its a deletion candidate. Ben MacDui 16:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I found it here. I count six houses and a hotel. Ben MacDui 16:50, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi Ben, bear in mind that a lot of Highland townships are scattered... So this has to be taken into account. --MacRusgail (talk) 18:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
If its notable there are no doubt references to prove it. In the meantime Achnaluachrach, Sutherland is up for deletion. Its just a farm. 18:53, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Bearnaraigh eile[edit]

Bernera, Lismore created. Will work on it in time to come. --MacRusgail (talk) 18:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Any idea what the name means? Ben MacDui 18:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, I haven't been able to make as much time for Gigha as I would have liked as I got side tracked by the WP 0.7 stuff. Nonetheless it's not far from GA now. Ben MacDui 19:05, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
All Bernerays translate as Bjørn's Island. Akerbeltz (talk) 20:06, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I knew that! I think it must be time for a short wiki-break. Its always a bad sign when you start dreaming about "Achnaluachrach (disambiguation)". Ben MacDui 20:40, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
This Bjørn? Mamma mia!

Well, I'm working on getting images just now, and made a slight improvement to the Lomond islands. I think I've got 80/80, and most of the top 100 by area, but Hascosay's letting the side down...

Gigha is looking much better, thanks mainly to you. --MacRusgail (talk) 20:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Not quite true - Wiay, Uist seems to be hiding behind other islands on every picture I check!--MacRusgail (talk) 23:26, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Scottish English[edit]

I see the tag; isn't it commonly called Scots English? My surname is "Souter", which means (you tell me). It was anglicised (Scottishised) during the First World War by my grandfather, who risked serious consequences in the federal civil service with a name like Schuster. Tony (talk) 04:53, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe that souter means "a shoemaker or cobbler" and is thus very similar in meaning as well as in sound to Schuster. "Scottish English" is a form of English that is fairly easily understood by non-Scots and is distinguished by the accent and a relatively small number of words that are different from say Australian English e.g. "pal" for "mate", "lass" for "Sheila" etc. Scots, on the other hand is either a very distinct dialect or a language in its own right, spoken by large numbers, but rarely published in written form. Certainly in its extreme forms it may be incomprehensible to outsiders. See for example Oz in Scots. There are a thoosan' grey areas between the twa. See also 1.6 million Scots speakers – for sterters Ben MacDui 16:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Flannan Isles GAR[edit]

I really do appreciate what a PITA it is to have me repeatedly coming along and asking for improvements to articles on Scottish Isles, so if you think I'm being too harsh just let me know and we can get a second opinion.

The bad news is that I've still got Mingulay and Raasay on my list, but the good news is that I'm in no hurry, I'll find something else to do for a while. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 18:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you are being too harsh at all, given the upgrade that someone thought fit to provide GA criteria with (although thanks for asking). I am very much in favour of improving our collective referencing although as I wrote about a dozen GAs prior to this new rule it's a little frustrating. In many cases the difference between them and an FA is now only likely to be a lot of syntax and grammar shuffles rather than any new content. I also have a self-imposed WP 0.7 review to finish by the 20th of this month - its a shade galling that many of them have almost no references, page nos or otherwise. Ben MacDui 18:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC) PS Congrats on the Johnson front - what a marathon!
FWIW I agree with you. I'm not altogether convinced that GA's creep towards FA has been an altogether "good thing", but the toughened referencing requirement was necessary I think, given the way that wikipedia works. Anyway, thanks for being understanding. There's one article in particular I wrote before I was really aware of GA/FA and all the rest, which makes me cringe when I look at it now. No names, no pack drill. ;-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Why, thank you :-)[edit]

That was very kind of you. Don't tell anyone I lost patience many times :-)) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:12, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

You are most welcome - and so did I just keeping it on the watch list! By the way, I am being hounded by a relentless GA reviewer, (above) and in danger of losing my cool. Do you have any advice? :-D Ben MacDui 20:19, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
He's such a bad boy; whack him. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:20, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Nimbley[edit]

Hi! Although the style of language is simillar, I think the ip may be out of his (usual) range. It's not a problem, he might just be using the school's internet or something like that. I think you've done everything that's required here though. As long as he's tagged we can build up ever greater evidence. --Jza84 |  Talk  10:44, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Upcoming World Development contest[edit]

Penubag has been hard at work developing awards for this project. He has completed a very professional looking medal, and is almost done with a trophy that is truly awesome - both of these awards are visually stunning.

I and a few others have been working steadily on the country outlines that will be the focus of the contest - an outline for every country of the world! They're shaping up nicely. So far, 28 of them have been moved to article space - these aren't complete, but they are complete enough to be made available for readers to benefit from them. The rest of the set still includes temporary data that was generated by template (because it matched most but not all of the countries), and before those lists can be moved to article space, all the temporary data needs to be checked for accuracy, and if incorrect it needs to be replaced with correct information.

The effort on the lists has been on 3 fronts:

  1. Working on the lists in article space to complete them so they will be good examples for editors working on the rest of the set (during the contest).
  2. Adding or correcting other data (fixing redlinks, filling in blanks, etc.). The main type of work participants in the contest will be doing. The reason we're doing this is to get a feel for it, to develop the fastest methods for each type of task, etc.
  3. Improving the overall design and implenting changes on all 247 pages, whether in article space or not.

There has been some opposition to us running the contest based on edit counts or iterations. The concern is that we should reward quality work and not quantity, for fear of crappy edits done quickly without thought just to earn an award. I pointed out that the collection of pages are drafts in the Wikipedia namespace (therefore posing no danger to article space) and that most of the work needs to be done with power tools like AWB and Linky (which are specifically designed for repetitive volumnous work), but the reply was that we shouldn't set the precedent of rewarding barnstars for numerically-based tasks, and implied the threat of continuously MfD'ing the contest if we attempted to do so (like they did with the Awards Center - I was very surprised and disappointed that participants didn't step up to defend it). So we need to be careful in determining what exactly the awards will represent, and how they will be awarded.

Since rewarding iterations (passes with AWB on all of the pages in the set) are out, we really don't need the globe-in-stand (award we were working on) anymore. Two awards should suffice.

Once we get started with the contest, I'd like to kick the whole thing off with a round of medals for those dedicated few who have worked hard on the project so far.

What do you think of all of this?

Your comments and suggestions are most welcome.

The Transhumanist 00:51, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


Nice to see you back MacDui. I'm sorry to have to keep hassling you, but if you could sort out the referencing on Raasay (page numbers, publishers, last accessed dates and so on) then I promise I'll leave you alone in the future; it's the last island article on my GA sweeps list. There's no hurry though, no pressure. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:17, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Promises, promises! I will get to it asap altho' I'm still a bit short of time. 20:32, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I notice that in updating the Raasay references you seem to have lost quite a lot of the detail. As an example, in the change to the Keay & Keay reference, it seems to have gained a page number but lost information which is more relevant, like title and publisher. Similar problems seem to have occurred with other references. You may want to have another look? David Biddulph (talk) 23:01, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I have put the main refs in a separate section with all the details, and am leaving the specifics in the notes section for those refs, so the detail is still all there. It's not quite done yet. Thanks for watching the page. Ben MacDui 08:36, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
That's a first pass completed. The page nos are in - let me know what else may be necessary. Ben MacDui 19:38, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Could I push you for isbns for the books listed in the Bibliography? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:19, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Well here I am, but I guess you have beaten me to it. Many thanks. Ben MacDui 19:49, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
I felt guilty about hassling you. Unless you've written some old GAs on computing, then I won't be bothering you again. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 05:17, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Outwith v. outside[edit]

"Outwith" and "outside" are both perfectly acceptable words in Scottish English. The latter also happens to be common to all varieties of English. Given Wikipedia policy as described at WP:ENGVAR, can you please explain why "outwith" is used in this article, rather than "outside"? ðarkuncoll 18:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

See Talk:Scotland. Ben MacDui 08:33, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Loch Alsh[edit]

I recently added the article on Lochalsh. After tinkering with it for a few days, I think it is now perfect. Well, almost perfect. Well ... How should it be improved? Be brutal. Aymatth2 (talk) 02:03, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

To quote Nicholas Cage in Moonstruck, "the snowflakes are perfect, the stars are perfect... not us". I'll look at it asap and comment on the talk page. Thanks for asking. 10:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your extremely helpful feedback and edits. I have done what I can to remove the more mechanical defects, and added an attempt at an overview. It would need a fresh eye to improve the language. On adding citations, I am not sure. The material in the article is all covered by the cited sources. I suppose the value of additional citations is to point the reader to other sources they may find interesting. But this is something of an overview, with references to other articles on each specific topic. I suspect that if someone is interested in gneiss or Bonnie Prince Charlie they would click through to the entry on that topic and find richer citations there. Comment? Thank you again - I greatly appreciate the time you have taken to improve the article and to educate me on writing articles. Aymatth2 (talk) 17:06, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

You are welcome. It really depends on how far you want to take it. You don't need a citation for every word, but at GA or FA you need a few more. Ben MacDui 17:20, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I think I will leave it for now. I am sure there are gaps in geography, archaeology, history (particularly recent) and the description of the area today to be filled before it could be considered a good article. I hope other editors with more knowledge of these subjects will find the article and make it more complete. Aymatth2 (talk) 18:10, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Area of islands in Scotland[edit]

Hi, I'm working on a Norwegian translation/version of List of islands in Scotland (not moving very fast though, as I'm also working on no:Skottlands geografi and no:Liste over byer og landsbyer i Skottland...). I see that you're giving preference to the area stated by Haswell-Smith when they differ from the areas given by GRO statistics - I'm just curious why Haswell-Smiths figures are considered more accurate than the "official statistics" (I don't have this book myself)? Thanks in advance, best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 21:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi there. The reason is that the General Register Office for Scotland statistics only cover inhabited islands, which make up less than half the total of islands larger than 40 ha. There is also a least one error in the GRO table. Good luck with your translations. Ben MacDui 08:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! I've expanded your biography in Norwegian a bit[6], hope you don't mind that I didn't add the Norwegian eqvuivalent of {{BLP}} ;o) Regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 11:15, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Great stuff!. Ben MacDui 19:51, 26 November 2008 (UTC)