User talk:Betty Logan

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Snooker world ranking points 2016/2017[edit]

As highlighted in my comments when I made two reverts on the above page, if WPBSA profiles are to be used as the primary resource for information on this page, that is fine, but it should be done consistently, not selectively (as per the Michael Georgiou example I gave). The player in question is called Hossein Vafaei, but his WPBSA profile is listed as Hossein Vafaei Ayouri (which is one of the reasons he has become known by this name), an issue which was mentioned during ITV's UK coverage of the Snooker Shoot-Out on 24th February. In general terms, if you look at the list of Iranians on Wikipedia, it's clear that Iranians don't tend to use two surnames, and a quick Google search also reveals that Ayouri is not a recognised surname anywhere, while Vafaei is. I know I'm correct in this matter, but I understand that snooker articles on Wikipedia might prefer to keep his name as it is listed by WPBSA. It can always be updated if/when WPBSA decides to update his profile on their website.

Also, regarding the uw-3rr template message that you posted on my talk page (which I have since removed), having read WP:EW and specifically the section "What to do if you see edit-warring behavior", it clearly states: "Avoid posting a generic warning template if actively involved in the edit war; it can be seen as aggressive. Consider writing your own note to the user specifically appropriate for the situation, with a view to explicitly cooling things down.". So, although I don't personally consider your behaviour to be aggressive, perhaps you should bear this quote in mind for the future, as others might. Edin75 (talk) 15:37, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

List of the highest-grossing cross media franchises[edit]

Regarding this article. Can you direct me to the latest source on how much DC and the Marvel universe make so they can be added somewhere on the list. I would think maybe Marvel Multiverse would technically be top and DC Multiverse would be second definitely if you add the MCU and the DCEU to it. Thoughts? Jhenderson 777 23:22, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Box Office Mojo is probably your best bet (MCU and DC), but it only includes the box office. I don't know of a source that includes home media, merchandise etc. Betty Logan (talk) 22:46, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

13th Warrior[edit]

Betty, you undid a change I made to 13th Warrior regarding a movie quote. You typed that it didn't look "RS" to you. First, what is "RS"? Second, please google "Rich Heimlich". I am an accredited film reviewer in the Philadelphia market and have been writing reviews since 2007. I know James Berardinelli and work along side him at Allied screenings and others (Allied is the marketing company the studios use and that's who I'm accredited with, among others). I'm in the IMDB, have been a professional author since the 1980's including having been a freelancer, columnist, staff editor, editor and publisher for mainstream publications across multiple industries. I've also written several books including a bestseller. I added this quote to this one movie because of its age and to point out how it has improved since its release. I attributed the full review as well.

What else would you like?

First of all if you are adding your own reviews this is a WP:COI violation. Second, there is no shortage of reputable critics and publications we can draw reviews from. Review sections should use internationally recognized critics—although nationally recognized are ok too—who write for reputable publications. Rich Heimlich does not appear on the Rotten Tomatoes critics list, and neither does Slashcomment on the publication list. I agree that the reception section needs to be more balanced, but I suggest developing the section with the reviews already available at and which have already been incorporated into the aggregator. Both The New York Times and Entertainment Weekly gave it good reviews, and they are contemporary too and therefore more reflective of the film's reception. Betty Logan (talk) 19:20, 3 March 2017 (UTC)


Hi! While investigating the Stephen Lees at the requested move, I ran across an edit where you called the disambiguated title "WP:MALPLACED". If you read that page, you'll see that the term is very narrowly defined as a dab page that redirects to the same title with " (disambiguation)" in it. For example, if Stephen Lee redirected to Stephen Lee (disambiguation), the pair would be called "malplaced". It's one of those Wikipedia-only terms that leaves most people scratching their heads. Cheers! — Gorthian (talk) 19:04, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Snooker World and Asian Games men's singles events[edit]

Hi Betty how are you ?. I am just writing to you to ask should the above events be added to finals sections on wiki ?. You any feelings on this ?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:46, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

This is how it was done at the last events:
Does this help or is there something specific you would like to know? Betty Logan (talk) 03:54, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

I know I meant is there any reason that they are not added to players finals sections ?. Ie added as non ranking events ?. I was just wondering. Regards (talk) 09:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

In some cases countries may enter amateurs so they will count as "pro-am" wins rather than professional wins, which might explain why editors have not added them to the totals. That said they are fairly high profile events so personally I would create a "Pro-am finals" section and add them so there is a complete record of what players have won. Betty Logan (talk) 10:56, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

I am lead to believe they are invitational not pro-ams though ?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:19, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

They are only invitational in the sense that you can't enter the event individually and have to be selected for your country's squad, but national heats are usually open events that anyone with the appropriate nationality can enter. Betty Logan (talk) 11:23, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes I looked into this you have to be selected for your country. I suppose it's like tennis in the olympics. This would make them invitational events. I might contact World Snooker to see where they class these events — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:34, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Chris Totten[edit]

Hi can you create a page for the above player he has earned a tour card due to winning the euro champs thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:49, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Infobox name module[edit]

Template:Infobox name module has been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox Chinese. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
02:01, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Snooker Shoot-Out is a ranking event[edit]

Betty the Shoot-Out is now regarded by all sources as a ranking event. It is clearly stated after McGill's win he has won 2 ranking events not 1 ranking event and 1 variant ranking event. Are you happy with that deduction ?.

Please keep the discussion at Talk:Ronnie_O'Sullivan#2011_Premier_League. Betty Logan (talk) 00:59, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your work[edit]

Hello BL. Many many thanks for untangling all the page moves. I know I pinged you but I thought I would leave a link to this thread User talk:Trivialist#I think that these page move needs reversing in case you have any info that you can add to it. No obligation of course but I have not seen anything like this before. Thanks again and cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 00:22, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Something is still not right BL. See my post on T's talk page. MarnetteD|Talk 00:39, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
Oof. You fixed things correctly - I was getting two different article mixed up :-( Sorry about that. MarnetteD|Talk 00:44, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Not sure what is going on[edit]

He BL. Thanks for trying to fix that but I do not see any columns in that cast list after your edit. My browser is Firefox so I don't know if that is the problem. I did refresh the cache and that did not change things. I know that is the preferred template and if it works for you than great. As ever thanks for your time. MarnetteD|Talk 00:47, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

That is weird. The cast is divided into three columns on my display. May I ask what your screen resolution is? Betty Logan (talk) 00:49, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
To test whether it is a cache problem, click on the "edit" button in the "Cast" section and preview it. That should bypass your cache. Betty Logan (talk) 00:51, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Ah that is the problem. I have things set at 133% for my aging eyes. When I reduced it back to 100% the columns showed up and they were they at 112% and 120% so it is just me. That will sure help if I come across something like this in the future. I hope that you have a pleasant week! MarnetteD|Talk 00:58, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
I have reduced the column widths slightly. Do they split into two columns for you at 133%? Betty Logan (talk) 01:07, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
Yep that worked and they are there now. Thanks for your efforts :-) MarnetteD|Talk 01:14, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Would you like to join this RfC?[edit]

Hi Betty, just to give you the heads up that I've started an RfC (with a different IP address) here regrding the style of the message. While I do acknowledge the fact that you are not an administator, I still think the more that join the discussion, the merrier. -- (talk) 05:10, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


Could I draw your attention to this discussion? It's gotten a bit stale and doesn't seem to be focussed on any actual policy or guidelines thus far and I'd appreciate an editor versed in the project chiming in on either side. Thanks. GRAPPLE X 17:42, 10 April 2017 (UTC)


Hi, Betty. I've hatted the discussion you started at Talk:IMDb. I hope you don't mind; I don't mean to imply that you did anything wrong in starting it, but the way it developed, it's clearly painful for the overly impulsive User:Pocketthis to see it on the talkpage. Since it got so personal, would you mind taking it to their user talk, or indeed to ANI, if you want to pursue it? (I'm kind of hoping you don't, but it's not up to me.) Bishonen | talk 16:47, 11 April 2017 (UTC).

The article isn't very high on my list of priorities and Pocketthis is too highly strung to make it worth my while in pursuing it. The content he added is borderline promotion IMO and I think other editors will come along and remove it in due course down the line, so I'm happy to walk away from the article if it means I get him out of my hair. Betty Logan (talk) 17:35, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Revert the List of children's films page![edit]

Should I want to remove The Hunt for Red October from the List of children's films list, because Red October is not a children's film! --2601:C8:C001:BD00:A9C8:F7F6:2D26:F010 (talk) 23:10, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) IP if you want to remove it then why did you add it? MarnetteD|Talk 00:03, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

I've replied to your points on Beguiled in the other talk page[edit]

Title self-explanatory. Concerning your comment "Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner." Sometimes, and with some people, this is impossible. You know I'm right. Stupidity is another form of rudeness, in fact you could say it is rudeness in canonical form. Walter Sobchak0 (talk) 10:25, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Your reversion of my edits on Randamoozham[edit]

Hi, You have reverted 3 of my edits linking to a new article for an upcoming film The Mahabharata (2020 film) based on the novel Randamoozham. May I know why? --Anoopkn (talk) 09:14, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Did you follow the link I provided in the edit summary? If not, here it is again: WP:NFF. The pertinent part of that guideline states:

Films that have not been confirmed by reliable sources to have commenced principal photography should not have their own articles, as budget issues, scripting issues and casting issues can interfere with a project well ahead of its intended filming date. The assumption should also not be made that because a film is likely to be a high-profile release it will be immune to setbacks—there is no "sure thing" production. Until the start of principal photography, information on the film might be included in articles about its subject material, if available. Sources must be used to confirm the start of principal photography after shooting has begun.

In other words the article should not be created until filming has begun. According to the article you created production will not begin until September 2018, so the article should not be created until then. Until then you should document all production developments at Randamoozham#Film_adaptation. Betty Logan (talk) 11:07, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. Keep up the good work. Cheers! --Anoopkn (talk) 21:00, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Nice coincidence[edit]

Hello BL. I saw this thread Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film#.28The.29 Rack pack and all I could think was this is the perfect confluence of two of your interests :-) Best wishes to you in creating the article. MarnetteD|Talk 15:41, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Beaten to it! Serves me right; I've had a year to create it. I don't know why it didn't occur to me although I'm not generally an article creator. Betty Logan (talk) 15:55, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
I should have mentioned that is was you that helped hammer out the columns situation at the filmproject thread - apologies. I got diverted by another project. Thanks for leaving such detailed posts about things. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 04:20, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
Cheers, though it doesn't really matter who solves the problem, what matters is that people appreciate why one width is better than the other. Editors——especially project members—need to be aware of what looks great on their display doesn't always translate to others. Betty Logan (talk) 04:35, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Wpbsa open tour[edit]

Hi Betty if you look at Wikipedia world snooker tour and go to the section regarding this event it actually States the WPBSA finished up their involvement with the WPBSA Open Tour at the end of the 2002/2003 season which would cover these events ?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:24, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Why does it state the WPBSA finished with the open tour at the end of the 02/03 season?. With main tour Challenge Tour and open tour being ran by them it clearly states when they handed it over. Can you have a look please ?. Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:32, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

The Open Tour was taken over by the EASB for the 2002/03 season according to the Hayton book. I can even scan in the relevant pages if it matters that much to you, but the Hayton book clearly states that the EASB ran the event from 2002/03 onwards. For the first season the EASB allowed pros to enter, but after that it was limited to amateurs. I am aware that you disagree with this, but I can only go off what the book says. Betty Logan (talk) 07:26, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

I have got this book with this page it clearly states that the WPBSA and the EASB separated during the 2003-2004 season. I want to see your evidence because I have no problem showing you what Hayton said it did not change until 2003/2004 season. Which is also reported on world snooker tour and any site you use, discuss ?. (talk) 00:30, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

The evidence is all provided in the Hayton book, and the relevant page numbers are given in the citations at International Open Series. But I will spell it out for you:
  • 2001/2002 – Open Tour is introduced and operated by the WPBSA, the professional governing body. Conducted on similar lines to the PTC including an amateur leg (pp. 180–182).
  • 2002/2003 – The EASB, the English amateur governing body, takes over the Open Tour. The EASB are in partnership with the WPBSA at this time and as a result the EASB permits WPBSA members to play in some of its competitions (pp. 182–184)
  • 2003 – EASB ends partnership with WPBSA. There is a subsequent revision of EASB Open Tour rules to exclude professional players (page iii of the Introduction).
  • 2003/2004 – Open Tour is operated by EASB purely as an amateur competition (pp. 184–186).
I really can't make it any simpler than that. No matter how much you protest, the simple incontrovertible fact is that the EASB ran the Open Tour in 2002/2003 admitting pro players and prohibited pro players the next season following the split. Betty Logan (talk) 08:03, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

These relevant page numbers on Hayton's book you speak of how come they cannot be viewed when they are clicked on BTW?. You can't even read them. it is a useless link. (talk) 02:22, 19 May 2017 (UTC)02:21, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

But Betty I actually have a transcript from the book and that is not what is implied by Eric Hayton at all.that seems to be your interpretation. It does not say the easb took over the running of the events in the 2002/2003 season. It is clearly stated by Hayton that the WPBSA ran all 3 tours during the 2002/2003 season prior to their split in 03/04. Would you like to see it ?. I'm not protesting I just have evidence that's all. I can show you this and you can show me your transcript please ?. Just trying to sort it out thank you (talk) 02:11, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

You can't read it online because it's a book! Hayton at no point says the WPBSA ran the event in 2002/03. He categorically states the EASB ran the event across 2002/03. If all you have is a transcript then the transcript is obviously wrong, because the book has a complete listing for each season and each tournament. It also lists every single result. I also regard this constant haranguing as mildly insulting because you are either saying I am too incompetent to read what it says in the book or you are accusing me of lying. Clearly if I have the book and you only have a transcript of the book there isn't a debate because a transcript is not a reliable source. Anyway, here are scans of the relevant pages, and now please let this be the end of it: Betty Logan (talk) 10:19, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Can you post me the pages where it shows the 2002/2003 results are stated as Pro-Am in the book please id love to see it if possible? (talk) 00:28, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Because what you sent is absolutely unreadable it cannot be viewed have a look yourself and tell me how you can view those scanned pages please ?. I can't even see them ?. (talk) 00:31, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Actually you can read it online on it gives product description with a written introduction from Hayton with pages on the history of Snooker. It even mentions this split that's how I saw it. I don't know how it's wrong when it's taken from his book it's a scanned page.i can give you the link will you read it yourself?. (talk) 05:24, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

How many times do we have to go through this? Do you or do you not accept that the EASB ran the the Open Tour in 2002/2003? Betty Logan (talk) 06:20, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Selby's centuries[edit]

Selby yesterday made his 468th century (it was 143 points), according to the Croatian Eurosport commentator. – KWiki (talk) 10:22, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

You need to provide a WP:Verifiable source i.e. ones that readers can check. Betty Logan (talk) 10:26, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
It seems he has even four more (the site is regularly updated). I am following (or what is the correct verb) snooker for almost 20 years and I never do any edit without a reason or background (also an admin in BS Wiki). Best regards from Mostar. – KWiki (talk) 10:34, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
CueTracker is a fansite and not a reliable source and has many wrong figures (see the editing notice at Century_break#Players_with_100_century_breaks). If you are going to update the figures you need a proper verifiable source such as a match report like at BBC or World Snooker. Betty Logan (talk) 10:55, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
I know that CueTracker is not completely reliable (I am unfamiliar with other similar sites), but can anyone find a better source? There is no such statistics on World Snooker site and BBC offers news, results and calendar, but is also missing the statistics section. So, what is a better solution: fairly reliable source or no source at all? – KWiki (talk) 11:16, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
You've got a point, but I am inclined to stick with dated data and readers can see when it was valid. I would personally be inclined to get rid of the 50-thresholds and just stick 100, 200, 300, 400 etc because these are nearly always reported. There is a reason why 468 isn't reported, and that's because it isn't really a significant milestone. Betty Logan (talk) 12:11, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Also a good point (100, not 50). There are a lot more tournaments nowadays and, consequentially, a lot more centuries (Neil Robertson alone had a 103 in a season few years ago). – KWiki (talk) 13:06, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

File:Don't Look Now love scene .ogg[edit]

A good question in the edit summary, and I don't know the answer - I will have a look for it, but it may not exist! Since Nov, Wikipedia now has an image search (by size / resolution) and your video got caught up in it - if it was a static image then it would be too big for non-free (<100,000 pixels is the guideline) - but as a video, I'm not sure. It's 30sec which is OK for length. If I find more info, I will let you know. I may tag it with {{non-free no reduce}} for now, just to stop further tags being added. Ronhjones  (Talk) 23:10, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

@Ronhjones: I would appreciate that. I apologise if I was curt in my edit summary but I have tried to address this issue once already. If there was a standard resoultion like I said I am happy to sort this out since I still have the original clip on my computer so it is fairly straightforward. I would prefer to skip the guessing game though. Betty Logan (talk) 23:29, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

No problem. Wikipedia:Non-free_content hardly mentions videos - we have audio clips and still image guidelines, but nothing for a video (probably not that many!). With a lack of data, I raised the question at Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#Non-free_Videos. Ronhjones  (Talk) 23:34, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Your kind help requested![edit]

Hi Betty, is there any chance I could solicit your mastery of tables to implement the changes that were discussed here, specifically reformatting the tables so that films with the same gross are lumped in at the same rank point per Lyrda's suggestion? There's no massive hurry, but I do notice edits like this one, where a film's rank on this list gets represented elsewhere in articles. That can be contentious. If you're swamped, I understand and can ask at the Village Pump. I'm not terribly good at tables and there are some row coloration issues that need to be considered, so it's a personal nightmare. Face-smile.svg Thanks and regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:34, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Sure, I can help you with that. I might not get around to it until next week though but if you compile a list of links to the tables you want fixing I can take a look at it. Betty Logan (talk) 02:53, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
I have done this at the article that the discussion took place at, but let me know if there are any more and I will get around to it in the next week. Betty Logan (talk) 18:38, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
You are awesome! Thank you Ms. Logan! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 02:41, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

The Beguiled[edit]

Hello! How are you? I've left a message on the Beguiled talk page, and would like your input. Thank you! :) Vmars22 (talk) 14:57, 15 May 2017 (UTC)


Hello, my problem with the articles isn't the fact that skeptics express disagreeing opinions or cited rebuttals. My problem is with the deliberate use of loaded language smearing the entire paranormal community- "superstition", "frauds" and so forth- and with the use of weasel-phrases like "It is alleged"- and with (IMO, deliberately again) conflating carnival hucksters and charlatans with actual working Mediums. That's not neutral, not honest and not civil. That reeks of agenda. Citing sources like Randi, Nickell, Shermer et al. is no help, either. Those guys are notorious for their attacks on the paranormal community. Major NPOV problem right there. These entries read like something from Penn & Teller's "Bullshit"- not like reasonable criticism. Therefore, I intend to continue correcting the record. Wakebrew (talk) 19:53, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree that Wikipedia should not adopt the tone that mediums and psychics are frauds unless there is evidence that they are using deceitful tactics, but at the same time Wikipedia cannot treat these abilities as authentic when the scientific consensus is that the evidence does not support the existence of paranormal activity. It was not so long ago that schizophrenic people were regarded as being possessed; now, we understand the phenomenon and that the explanation is medical and not paranormal. Betty Logan (talk) 21:05, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Your reverting[edit]

I'm unconstructive? You are restoring discussions all the way back to October 2015, which are not 'still active'. Could you please undo what you have done? 1989 03:30, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Inactive discussions on the talk page are not a problem; archiving discussions that are ongoing or are used to maintain the article is. Maybe you should leave the archiving to people who actively work on the article instead of making a nuisance of yourself. Betty Logan (talk) 03:41, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
Those discussions go back to 2015. You can't tell us that 185k was active threads. (talk) 03:43, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
I wasn't 'making a nuisance of myself'. All of the discussions I archived were older than two months old, which was not ongoing. P.S. - adding a resolved tag is not archiving, just saying. -- 1989 03:47, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
As it happens some of those that date back to 2015 are still active because they maintain a list of films we are missing figures for. Most talk pages have active and inactive discussions and archiving active discussions is far more disruptive than not archiving inactive ones. Betty Logan (talk) 03:49, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
  • Thanks for archiving everything yourself. My apologies for the disruption, it was not my intention. -- 1989 16:35, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
    @1989: I was very irritable (the end of a very long day) and I think we probably both could have handled it much better. In truth you were correct many of teh discussions needed archving and I should have got on top it earlier anyway, so in the end we just took the long route to a satsifactory outcome. Betty Logan (talk) 16:40, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Moonraker Opening Scene[edit]

Hi Betty. I just finished watching the movie. From my interpretation of the opening scene, he passes through the tent and lands on the trapeze net. Here's a video of the opening scene time coded to the appropriate section: I'll leave the final interpretation to you :-) Vampus (talk) 18:08, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

@Vampus: Okay...if we accept the scene segues into the opening credits he lands on the net. Personally I think it is opening to interpretation if I am honest. I will self-revert because it's not really a big deal I guess i.e. something breaks his fall and he doesn't die. Betty Logan (talk) 18:12, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Ordering in lists[edit]

Betty, I seem to recall that we had a discussion about how to order films in a list. In this case, another editor tried to change de-aging in film from alphabetical to by year. I know that you supported alphabetical somewhere. Do you remember where? Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 20:06, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't. I did a word search but it didn't bring anything up. The basic gist IIRC was that it was more accessible if lists were default ordered alphabetically because readers were more likely to be looking for a particular film title. For example, if you want to check if a particular film is in the public domain alphabetical sorting makes it much easier to look for it at List_of_films_in_the_public_domain_in_the_United_States#Films. Obviously that wouldn't apply if the list had a chronological basis though. Betty Logan (talk) 00:56, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
A-ha! Is this what you were thinking of? Betty Logan (talk) 01:02, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, I saw this before but did not have time to reply at the time. Yes, that's what I was thinking. :) I suppose I could ask more broadly than that talk page. Lately I've had trouble with seeing sorting in tables; have you had any trouble? Also, I believe one cannot sort at all on mobile, right? I feel like I go back and forth between alphabetical and chronological because there are good reasons for both. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 13:06, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
I perosnally have not had any problems, but sorting does need javascript turned on. Most browsers support it but it is not necessarily turned on by default. Betty Logan (talk) 14:07, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, I probably have too many extensions blocking elements so I'll need to find the sweet spot (or else just whitelist Wikipedia in its entirety). Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 14:27, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

On the proposed deletion of Mahabharatha[edit]

Mohanlal is a five time national award winning actor who has acted in over 300 Indian movies. When he announces something of this grandeur, it for sure, about to happen. Agreed that it falls within WP:NFF. But growing number of links to the article shows the popularity and need for a Wiki page dedicated to the movie. If this still needs to be deleted, please go ahead.

Thanks and keep up the good work Thatgeeman (talk) 11:41, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

On the proposed move of Mob film[edit]

Hi Betty Logan, the small lead of Mob film, and much of the early years history do not refer to Mafia film, but rather to Gangster film. So there will have to be a split of these parts to the new article (Gangster film), as per WP:PROSPLIT, But unless someone works the split part into a proper new article, it will be a mess. Any thoughts? Thanks. Hoverfish Talk 02:50, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Hong Kong Masters draw made[edit]

Betty can you create the page for this event the draw has been made ? (talk) 21:27, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I have created a redirect at Hong Kong Masters so the page can now be edited. Betty Logan (talk) 00:22, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Wpbsa open tour[edit]

Hi Betty I have the source from Eric Hayton's book that says the WPBSA and EASB actually spilt in the 2003–2004 season. So the events in 2002/2003 are not Pro-Am as you claim would you like the view the article to prove this please as I have the article ?. Regards (talk) 00:24, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

This is all covered above at #Wpbsa_open_tour. Betty Logan (talk) 11:04, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Betty I read the scans you sent by zooming in but at no point in that section does it call the event a pro-am. Just like the PTC'S had pro and amateur playing in them they were not called pro-am. I think they are what they were called 'Open Tour' events because there was 3 different tours going back then. I have rolf kalb's email he is a snooker statistician he will know. Will I ask him to clarify ?. I also have a contact at World Snooker I can turn over results to you if I get them ok ?. (talk) 05:44, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Hayton actually said that there were 3 tours in 2002-2003 Main Tour, Challenge Tour and the Open Tour which allowed players to gain access to the Challenge and main tour. It was a different system with so many players then. He then says the WPBSA and the EASB split in the 2003-2004 season. This is all in the books introduction page, will you read it when you get a chance please ?. Regards (talk) 06:01, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Hammad Miah[edit]

Hi Betty, I hope you are well. I have done some editing on snooker articles for quite a while, the odd time updating Performance and Ranking Timelines. I know these sections are unsourced, however a relatively new user [1] to Wikipedia reverted my Riga Masters edit to Hammad Miah's ranking timeline [2] and has sent me a warning on my talk page to use inline citations. I'm aware of how sourcing works having created several articles over the years and I am not offended in the slightest as they are a new editor. I have explained on his/her talk page that the entire section is unsourced.

I have put the result back in and just want to make sure that I am not doing something incorrectly as adding these updates unsourced, and I also appreciate this may not even be the place to discuss it. If not I am happy for you to point me in the right direction. Andygray110 (talk) 15:35, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

@Andygray110: Ideally these sections should be sourced but it is worth pointing out that WP:UNSOURCED states "Attribute all quotations and any material whose verifiability is challenged or likely to be challenged to a reliable, published source using an inline citation." I would argue that in this case it is the technical issue of sourcing and not the policy issue of verifiability that is being challenged because it is trivial to verify the information by simply clicking the table entry. So I agree that MJ500 is correct to highlight this issue but I don't agree that removal of content is justifiable when it is so trivial to actually verify it. I think the more appropriate action would be to tag these tables with {{unreferenced section}} which would give editors a chance to address the issue without derailing the maintenance of the tables. In the context of just this particular article though the dispute can easily be resolved by adding a citation to which provides all pro results for Hammad Miah. Betty Logan (talk) 17:15, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
That's great Betty, thanks for your help I will add this in. Much appreciated. Andygray110 (talk) 17:58, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Re. Film categories[edit]

Hi Betty Logan, I agree with you that we should put together a project-wide discussion. For me, the initiative to start (and then be productive in) such a discussion requires a bit more of catching up with developments and refreshing my knowledge on the more general guidelines and rules. Yesterday and most of today I have been following one hint after the next, starting from a link I was given to a CFD of last year. From this I got most of the answers I had about your view and the views of some of our other key members. I have also followed many edit histories to get an idea of who (and maybe why) is behind this restucturing in categorization (not only in Films). Not everybody wants to explain their actions, however. I feel some just follow the brain hemisphere responsible for puting everything in little etiketted boxes, forgetting the needs of the other hemisphere. Well, I did get some jolts out of this quest, but also hopefully more insight.

Another thing I observe is that it may not quite be up to WP Films or even Wikipedians to define what the function of the categories should be, because there are some technical limitation of the system to make full use of them. When we were starting Film categorization we had input from two editors who were putting together the category intersection proposal. I see that it remains a proposal since, waiting for Wikimedia to respond. My guess is that if the Wikimedia computing power was anywhere comparable to that of Google, this issue would have been resolved long time ago. Also, looking at the recent Wikimedia Strategy forums, I see that more focus is directed to social interactions, although I believe that if they gave more focus to make more powerful use of categorization it would be as much to their benefit as in ours. Back to the point: as soon as I feel confident I understand enough of what is going on, I will initiate a talk in the project. I am not very eloquent and I often find myself being very naive or overy talkative, which works against what I am trying to achieve. In any case it is good to know that you are for the WP discussion approach. Best regards, Hoverfish Talk 22:42, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

If you have time and wish to add your points or edit mine, I have started this page to help me focus on all that is worth bringing up for discussion, but I am still in the brainstorming phase so any input is appreciated. Thank you. Hoverfish Talk 23:29, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

On the issue of "primary" genres (by WP:weight considering the sources, and all such things considered), can you think of any main set of genre categories that could go to all film articles? Some are clear as generic ones, like drama, comedy, crime, horror, documentary, but after these few I am wondering how far we can go with "primary" ones. Action, thriller? Are they mostly stand-alone? Then for genre crossings, should we put two or more primary genre categories? I know this is going to sound like plenty of trouble, so I am trying to get a complete picture. - By the way, my quest with the search techs went nowhere. I tried their suggestions but the searches keep timing out and I get very partial results. Oh wel... Hoverfish Talk 21:17, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Allmovie has a good selection of primary genres at Pretty much any film can be categorized under that combination. Take Jaws for instance: Allmovie categorises it under two primary genres and then there are a number of specialised genres that are applied to it. I think Allmovie have a pretty good approach; something like a "thriller-adventure" intersection category isn't really needed if you already include thriller and adventure categories (and remember if you cross 20 genres over with each other that would produce 400 intersected categories), but something like Category:Monster movies, Category:Seafaring films and Category:Survival films arguably add more depth to the categorization. Betty Logan (talk) 06:47, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm taking a wikivacation soon and I'll be back after the first week of September. I like a lot your idea and I'll think more about all it involves. When I am back we'll find out how other feel about it. Cheers. Hoverfish Talk 02:10, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Cast section and character descriptions of Die Hard 2[edit]

there's an argument on Die Hard 2 about the cast section and character descriptions. A lot of film articles have character descriptions which I feel are very necessary, but that version of the cast section has been switched back and reverted by TheOldJacobite and Deloop82. It is on this section of the article's talk page. BattleshipMan (talk) 02:00, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:12 Monkeys#"doesn't need refs"[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:12 Monkeys#"doesn't need refs". Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:49, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Amazing Spider-Man 2 budget[edit]

Hey man. Just clarifying to you that on the budget sheet ( that $200 million figure isn't an overall number, but how much was spent soley on special effects/sound editing (per the section). I had to double check it too but that's what I took it as. Hope this clears it up, don't want to start an edit war. Cheers! TropicAces (talk) 03:20, 27 July 2017 (UTC)tropicAces

That is not correct because they have $250 million for The Hobbit in both sections and also $210 million for Transformers in both sections. It is obviously a mistake but it is not clear which figure is the mistake. Betty Logan (talk) 03:21, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
you're right. Huh, that's odd. Fair to assume that the $200 figure is the mix up since that was Sony's "official number" but everyone has speculated costs between $250-300, but right, can't go off that thought train. Sorry for the mix up, have a good one! TropicAces (talk) 03:25, 27 July 2017 (UTC)tropicAces
I think they are probably both at the extreme ends. Deadline says it cost $255 million (see [3]), so bang in the middle sounds about right to me. Depends what they count as a cost to be fair. If they are trying to recoup money from a tax body they probably push up the budget. Betty Logan (talk) 03:39, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Star Wars split[edit]

I noticed you made a comment regarding the Star Wars splitting and redistribution of content off the main article. There's currently some implementation of it, though some elements are under discussion, and there's some moves toward restructuring. To update you on it, in case you wanted to revisit it. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 16:54, 30 July 2017 (UTC)


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User return?[edit]

Hi, Betty. I received a recent e-mail request from User:Hayal12 asking for reinstatement to Wikipedia. Currently, they are under an indefinite block for disruption and lack of communication -- with the eventual option of the Standard Offer. My usual inclination is to leave blocks in place for the duration once I've given them. But their e-mail showed a significant improvement in tone and willingness to communicate. My plan would be to reopen their talk page and allow them to make a public return request. I know this editor would mostly impact your neighborhood, so I wanted to get your opinion. What do you think? CactusWriter (talk) 16:49, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Ultimately he was blocked for non-communication and he is communicating now so the other problems aside there is some significant progress on the main issue. I was indefinitely blocked soon after I started editing for refactoring comments in discussions but I acknowledged the error of my ways and was given a second chance and became a GA and FL contributor so it would be hyprocritical of me to deny the same opportunity to another editor. Obviously the lack of communication was symptomatic of other recurring problems but he also made plenty of good edits too. The way I view this is that it is much easier to block an editor who blows his second chance than it is to find committed good editors, so there probably is more to gain by allowing him access to the talk page than there is to lose from Wikipedia's perspective. Maybe a probation period could be considered where he is banned from altering column dividers for what remains of his six month period and we can take it from there? Betty Logan (talk) 17:15, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
I agree. Good suggestions. Thank you. CactusWriter (talk) 15:40, 20 August 2017 (UTC)