User talk:Bluesangrel

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Welcome[edit]

Welcome!

Hello, Bluesangrel, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as Thanasis Skourtopoulos, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may soon be deleted.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Slon02 (talk) 21:13, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Thanasis Skourtopoulos[edit]

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The article Thanasis Skourtopoulos has been proposed for deletion because under Wikipedia policy, all biographies of living persons created after March 18, 2010, must have at least one source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't take offense. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners or ask at Wikipedia:Help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. --Slon02 (talk) 21:13, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

The article was deleted so fast that I did not have any time to add any sources. It was literally deleted within mere seconds after you sent this message, making it impossible to add any sources.Bluesangrel (talk) 21:22, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi. I deleted the article, not the user who sent you the message, because it does not appear to meet the Wikipedia:Notability criteria. I have restored it for you to work on, but in addition to adding references you need to explain why this person is notable, in the text of the article. Deb (talk) 21:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
This is the official website of this pro sports club [1] and you can see where it lists the coach's name at the bottom right of the page. This for a European wide pro sports competition. I read the notability on making articles and thought this would qualify. If it does not I am sorry and you can delete it. SorryBluesangrel (talk) 21:36, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Or maybe this will help from the home site of the team? [2] Are these sources suitable or not or this person not notable enough?Bluesangrel (talk) 21:40, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: List of FIBA Euroleague broadcasters[edit]

Hello Bluesangrel. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of List of FIBA Euroleague broadcasters, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: It may not be now, but it has been a FIBA tournament before, according to Euroleague Basketball. Seems reasonably plausible. Needs to go to WP:RFD. Thank you. GedUK  08:26, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Linos Chrysikopoulos[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Linos Chrysikopoulos requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hang on}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion, or "db", tag; if no such tag exists, then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hang-on tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. ~~EBE123~~(talk) 20:59, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Talkback[edit]

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Armbrust WrestleMania XXVII Undertaker 19–0 23:03, 16 March 2011 (UTC)


Smile![edit]

A Barnstar!
A smile for you

You’ve just received a random act of kindness! 66.87.0.137 (talk) 13:32, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Re Greek Basket League category removal[edit]

It is because the league category is redundant with the team category. Andrewlp1991 (talk) 00:31, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

In the news discussion about European basketball[edit]

You might be interested in this: Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news/Recurring_items#Proposal_to_remove_Euroleague_Basketball_from_ITN.2FR. Zagalejo^^^ 02:13, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, it's about removing Euroleague events from the "In the news" section of the Main Page. I thought you might offer a valuable perspective. Zagalejo^^^ 03:43, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
If you don't pay attention to the "In the news" section, you probably don't have to worry about it. Zagalejo^^^ 03:59, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, that's right. Zagalejo^^^ 19:22, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Vassilis Spanoulis[edit]

With all respect to your work, I think there is no need for National Team Career stats, I saw neither one anywhere. The reason why I deleted his NBA career stats is that they are mentioned up in the article, and he played very few games (only 1 season), it would be complex, and already is, nearly 50t words. AirWolf (talk) 18:37, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Stephane Lasme[edit]

So, what exactly is Stephane Lasme's status? The article was recently edited to say he was on Panathinaikos' roster, but I don't see him mentioned on the Panathinaikos website. Zagalejo^^^ 02:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Ah, OK. Thanks for the info! Zagalejo^^^ 19:28, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Ayo Bakare[edit]

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The article Ayo Bakare has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, all newly created biographies of living persons must have at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. ∫eb²+1(talk) 11:01, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for adding sources! Cheers, --j⚛e deckertalk 20:40, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Yugoslavia/USSR[edit]

I know there have been similar issues with Olympic medals articles. We've got too many ultra-nationalists fiddling around with things. I see that User:Потпуно Црнило has been making some of the problematic edits; any other specific users I should keep an eye on? Zagalejo^^^ 05:33, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, whenever there's an active dispute, let me know, and I'll look into things. Zagalejo^^^ 18:19, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Listing the country/league next to the team in the infobox[edit]

Let me ask you something, are we writing for the US people because wiki was created in the US and its founder is also from there (maybe he isn't, I don't know), or we are writing for the people all around the world? Have you ever saw United States next to team name in team parameter in Template:Infobox basketball biography? Let me answer you, you haven't. But let's leave that as it was not part of your 'information' you gave to me. Don't want to be arrogant, but have you EVER seen league parameter in this template, or just league, team and number that give us information about his current or past club? Also you have to be more specific where I made a mistake when writing to me, otherwise in future I will not answer to your messages left on my talk page. I have never deleted anything except in Prigioni's article (where I HAVE TO ASSUME what you are talking about) when I merged two seasons of the same club in one section. First season he has played in the Spanish 2nd, second season in the Spanish 1st. He was still under contract with the same team, and why do we have to have to sections (years1, team1, years2, team2) when we can have one simple (years1, team1)? Have you seen there league1 or league2? If you are talking about Greece 2nd and Greece 1st leagues, I changed nothing except Greece 1st into just Greece on several articles. With due respect to your work in editing mostly Greek-basketball related articles, don't tell me anything about similar stuff like this, I have gained enough experience at the basketball-related articles. If you have reverted my edit, I will revert yours. Ask some other users who is right, or write on the talk page of the template I have mentioned and THEN make a change. AirWolf (talk) 03:05, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

We are writing for English speakers all over the world. That is my point. Only people from Greece know that Near East basketball club might not be a first division club. So everyone from outside Greece will just wrongly assume it as a first division club. Therefore, it really should be noted what division the club is in.Bluesangrel (talk) 21:02, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
You just had to write where was the problem, I don't have supernatural powers to predict what are you talking about. Over last month I made more than 2000 edits about Euroleague-related articles (including players) and other non-Euroleague articles so it is really hard to remember what was I doing. I checked your last contributions when you left me that message, but there was nothing problematic you edited. However, when you wrote about who you were talking about, I saw you hasn't edited anything.. so that was the problem. I deleted it and gave reason for my deletion which I still think it is valid, but I will revert it on your indirect insist. Thanks for compliment, I really worked hard to improve Euroleague-related articles over the past month, there is few more things to be edited and then I will be less there as the University duties starts in a week.. Regards! AirWolf (talk) 22:40, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Panathinaikos depth chart[edit]

There is no way to allow you to distort the truth. The positions listed in the official team page and as you continue to ignore the official position of Panathinaikos interventions you are a saboter. You're not the coach and you have no right to wreck the plan of Panathinaikos to its composition. The page will appear exactly the view of Panathinaikos and you had to read it at link [3]. The page Wikipedia must state exactly what it says and Panathinaikos is the only truth. Anyone who says something contrary will correct immediately, so do not lose your time. If you really want to help keep Panathinaikos and Wikipedia alignment with the group's position. Sportin (talk) 10:12, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Distort the truth? Bramos is a SG/SF, not a SF. Do you really think Panathinaikos has just one SG on the entire roster? Besides the official Euroleague website lists Bramos as a SG ---> [4] and [5] - the fact is that athere are such players known as guard/forward that can play both SG and SF. Branos is one of them. Panathinaikos does hot have 3-4 SF on the roster and just 1 SG. Bramos is a SG for the team. In the future, I suggest that you do not send a message out of the blue for no reason to someone that false accuses them of "distorting the truth", especially when they made a perfectly true and accurate edit, and actually properly corrected the article. Besides that, these depth charts a joke anyway. I've never once come to the Panathinaikos or Olympiacos articles and even one time see the correct depth chart. Just as a perfect example, Diamantidis spent years playing at SF and then last year at SG, and never one time in years has he not been listed at PG on the PAO depth chart. The fact of the matter is that the depth charts should have been removed years ago, because people keep editing them to incorrect info. Then if someone tries to fix it, they get immediately switched back. But then their should not messages coming that someone is "trying to distort". In the future, please do not make false claims like that against me. I was simply helping to improve the article, using my free time to do it.Bluesangrel (talk) 20:54, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
There is no better source than the official Panathinaikos site wich also contains the depth chart as you can see.[6] You sould make your comlainments there. If you do act like this you are giving the permision to anyone who beleieves that a player match for a position to make his own edits just because he thinks that it will be reasonable. But wikipedia has rules that you have the obligation to respect. I have seen Diamantidis to play as a PF but this does not nominated me to place him as a PF to fill the gap in this position. Someone after your edits placed Nestoras Komatos in the roster just because he believes that the player is suitable for the roster despite the fact that Komatos just help in the summer trainning many years ago. Many days before the agreement of Armstrong with team many users refered the player in the roster as they did for Anthony Toliver or Lasme. Braking the Wikipedia rules, even you have honest purpose you are giving the right to anyone to wright everything he wants... Please if you have an answer place it in my page so I could read your comments.Sportin (talk) 22:48, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
As I showed you, the Euroleague website lists Bramos as a shooting guard. And if you want more, the Spanish League website also did. Here is the Spanish League listing him as an E which means shooting guard ---> [7] This same player spent the last two years of his career playing the shooting guard position in the Spanish club Gran Canaria. So it's not correct for you to pretend here that he strictly plays as a SF, when in fact he actually played shooting guard the last two years. Regardless, as I said, he is a SG/SF, NOT a SF. He is a swingman. That is what his position is actually called. It means he plays both the SG and the SF position. So I am not inserting my personal opinion into anything. And you are talking about Wikipedia rules.....I just showed you that Euroleague lists Bramos as a SG. I have no idea why you are getting so angry over this, but please try to be a little more friendly to you fellow editors that are just trying to help here. I am not doing any of the things that you accuse me of, not in any way. If you have such a problem with the depth charts, request them to be removed. Like I said, I have been for years seeing Diamantidis listed as a PG at that page, yet he has only played PG maybe 1/2 of one season out of the last 6-7 years. So it's not like that depth chart has ever been accurate, because it has not, and it's actually not accurate now in still having Diamantidis listed at a position he does not play. So if you are angry at the depth charts you don't need to take it out on me, because I am not the one that has always been keeping that article's depth chart wrong. OK?Bluesangrel (talk) 04:38, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Helo, first I want you to forgive me if I was rude to you. You are the first user that answered to my messages and tryed to consulting despite our disagreement. I was only wanted to explain you that if you do not count the official Panathinaikos site there is no other other way to this avoid edits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Panathinaikos_B.C.&oldid=514038538 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Panathinaikos_B.C.&oldid=514129100 I totaly agree with you that depth charts is the most unnecessary part of the basketball articles. Since there is the teams roster in the page who states the players position there is no need for this section. I would proposed the deletion form all the articles but I have not the proficiency in the english language to support this dialogue. I am very disapointment of way that users understanding the meaning of contribution. Parts such as history are totaly incomplete in the most european teamsand at the same time there is madness about the depth chart... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBC_CSKA_Moscow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona_B%C3%A0squet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Madrid_Baloncesto Thank you for your time.Sportin (talk) 09:01, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I think the problem with the depth charts seems to be that fans of particular individual players edit the depth charts how the fan sees the player. Especially when American players are in European teams this causes a problem. Because Americans view starters as being more important and better than non-starters, even though in European basketball there is no such distinction, as even the best player on a team can often come off the bench. But you get editors, especially I think NBA fans wanting to make sure that say an American former NBA players must be listed as a starter on the depth chart, even if he comes off the bench. The other big problems I see with depth charts are that in European articles, there is a problem with how people understand how the positions work as it relates to play makers. In Europe you have the "play maker" position, which simply refers to the guy that runs the set. The thing is that very often the SG or SF is running these sets. But many people sem to confuse play maker position with point guard position. I would see this many times where in teams like Panathinaikos and Olympiacos Diamantidis was playing SF and Spanoulis was playing PG, but Diamantidis was always listed at PG and Spanoulis at SG. Or how Jasikevicius was playing SG and Spanoulis PG, yet the position was always reversed on the depth chart. Same then I saw how Calathes was playing PG and Diamantidis SG, but on the depth chart the position was always reversed. Same in Olympiacos where Spanoulis was playing PG and Teodosic and Papaloukas were playing SG, but the positions were always reversed on the depth chart. It's because apparently, people don't understand that play maker position just means you are running the set, it does not necessarily mean you are playing at PG. NBA uses different terms like point forward or primary ball handler. But even if Pippen played play maker or Bird played play maker or LeBron plays play maker, they were not playing point guard and not listed as such. But in European articles a player plays as a SG/SF and as a play maker (like Diamantidis) and he is always listed on the depth chart as a PG, even though he's only played there about half a season two years ago, and before that it was back in like 2004 and earlier era. So there is definite issues with that. Then there is the issue you touch on with the players being signed and not. What I see a lot is that if a team has like 7 players signed in the off season that the depth charts are arranged to accommodate that. So the players get put in all different positions to fit the fact that the team only has 7 players or whatever. But that's understandable and fair editing IMO, but it does create problems then when a new editor comes along and gets confused maybe by what positions the players really play at. The issue you mention about the players being added that are not on the team - well that's tough, because you are going by two issues there. I think you are saying only a player should be added if he has been announced by the team's website. But the problem with that is that players get announced many times in newspapers, news websites, league sites, Euroleague, etc., even on the player's own interviews or twitter, or same from the agents or coaches of a team. I see many times for example where a player signs, is even shown in the paper signing, says he signed on his twitter, but the team had not announced it yet, so someone adds the player, then someone else removes it and claims it is not official. So, in all honesty, I think I have no problem with people adding guys if a legit source says they signed, meaning I don't believe at all that the team's website is the only source to go by. Especially when in many cases, the team websites are outdated and even often are the LAST source to be updated. Some team's sites are even a year behind in updating their rosters. In fact, Panathinaikos website is not even updated on the roster. It only lists 10 players, when 13 have already officially signed with the team, meaning that PAO website is in fact out of date on the roster. So I don't think there is a true way to make it that only an official team site can be used as a source, because it just isn't practical. You mentioned Kommatos before - as far as I know, Kommatos has been playing with PAO all summer and is currently a member of the team, even playing in recent pre-season training games. He just has a temporary training camp trial contract, not a guaranteed season contract. So, I think it is OK if someone put him on the depth chart. I don't really have an issue with that, as he is on a trial training with the team. What you say is true, he has no actual contract with them and probably will not get one. But I think it would be an honest edit if someone adds him, since he is currently with the team in pre-season. So, let's just try to keep the depth charts reasonably realistic, dealing with how many people edit them. But we should not be limiting the depth chart solely to what team websites say, since they just don't get updated as fast as other sources do.Bluesangrel (talk) 15:45, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Since you asked: I'm opposed to depth charts, in general. They often force us to perform original research and oversimplify things. For several years, I've argued to get rid of them entirely. They're not worth the edit wars. Zagalejo^^^ 23:54, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Ways to improve German Basketball Cup[edit]

Hi, I'm Kudpung. Bluesangrel, thanks for creating German Basketball Cup!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. This page has been tagged for not having any references. Although not a criterion for immediate deletion, please note that all Wikipedia articles must be referenced to reliable sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Joey Dorsey[edit]

Just wondering, do you know what his official status is? Has Olympiacos actually released him yet? Zagalejo^^^ 00:28, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

OK, thanks a lot! Zagalejo^^^ 22:44, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
OK, thanks. I'll make some updates. Zagalejo^^^ 01:20, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Heights[edit]

Well, in the case of Andy Panko, Unicaja's website lists his height as 2.04 meters: [8]. Unfortunately, players' heights will often very from source to source; my choice would be to use the height published by the team he is currently playing for. Zagalejo^^^ 02:28, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

If someone wanted to change Fernandez's height to match his Spanish league profile, I wouldn't stop them. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy answer here. I think using the current club's data would be better than arbitrarily using the height published by one of his previous clubs. (Note also that the Euroleague lists Panko's height at 2.03 meters [9], which is what the IP had.) Zagalejo^^^ 00:09, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Well, as long as the height can be supported by some official source, I won't lose any sleep over things. It would be nice if someone could put together a guideline for dealing with heights. Zagalejo^^^ 01:29, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
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Talkback[edit]

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Need your help with Greek Basket League sources[edit]

Hello Bluesangrel - There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports) about changing the standards for includion of basketball players. I am trying to demonstrate that the top Greek League is at the same level of media coverage as Italy and Spain and that players in this league should be considered notable too. I do not read Greek, can you help direct me to websites that cover the Greek League - news sites, sport sites, magazines? If there are other print sources that you know of, those could be useful too. You can reply here or to my talk page. Thank you. Rikster2 (talk) 13:27, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the link[edit]

At this point, I'm not sure where to jump into that discussion, but I'll keep an eye on things. Zagalejo^^^ 03:06, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

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Can you help with references for this article?[edit]

Bluesangrel - Stelios Ioannou is up for deletion. We are having trouble finding English language references to establish his notability - can you help with any Greek references? Looking for articles, interviews, etc beyond standard match reports. Thank you for your help. Rikster2 (talk) 12:40, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

What kind of sources do you want?Bluesangrel (talk) 01:37, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Rony Seikaly questions[edit]

Are you sure he moved to Greece at age 3? This lengthy article says he moved there at age 10. This, too. Also, do you have a source for his Greek name? I don't see anything at all about that on Google beyond the Wiki page. Thanks. Zagalejo^^^ 03:57, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Indeed, I found an article that quotes Seikaly as saying, "In 1975, when I was 10, my parents were worried that my brother and I would get into something bad. When your friends start holding machine guns, you want to hold one, too. When they start fighting for a certain group, you want to fight for one, too. My parents [Fred and Marlene] didn't want us around that, so we moved to Athens, Greece." [10] (I can email you the full article, if you like.)
In addition, the article says that he didn't play an official basketball game until he got to college. Do you have a source for the info on the Greek youth leagues? It doesn't really jibe with the information I'm reading. Zagalejo^^^ 05:02, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
Greek sources could be OK, although I'm not sure about that particular page, since it appears to be a blog. A newspaper or magazine article would be better. Where else do you get your information on Seikaly? Zagalejo^^^ 23:23, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
Like I said, I don't know, but Greek sources say 3. It might just be an error. But I am very certain on the part of him playing with Panathinaikos when he was young.Bluesangrel (talk) 20:47, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm not seeing any useful results for Ρόνι Σακαλής, even with Google.gr. Zagalejo^^^ 22:10, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
OK, thanks for that. I'll have to rely on Google translate, but this can be useful. It does seem that he was associated with Panathinaikos, but the article says he "failed to ever compete in an official game", or something like that. I don't know if anything was lost in the translation.
In terms of his age when moving to Greece, I still feel more confident with 10 than 3. As I said, I've found a quote from Seikaly himself where he says he was 10. (And he speaks in some detail about life in Lebanon. If he had left at age 3, he wouldn't remember much at all.) It could be that he first visited Greece at age three. Maybe his family had a second home there - they were pretty rich. Zagalejo^^^ 22:40, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

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WGB[edit]

Just curious ... are you User:Wiki Greek Basketball ? Soap 03:09, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Basketball player notability[edit]

I'm not sure why some of those particular leagues were singled out in the guideline. I think the Greek league is comparable to the Italian league. I'd suggest you raise the issue at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(sports). You should try to demonstrate that there is long-term, detailed coverage of the league.

You can probably make a case for the VTB league, as well. Zagalejo^^^ 06:15, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Sydney Johnson[edit]

Thank you for your editorial assistance and expertise at Sydney Johnson. Regardless of what the WP:TRUTH may be, wikipedia is a tertiary source that summarizes secondary sources. Until secondary sources are produced to corroborate the edits you made, they are nothing more than WP:OR. I have reverted them pending appropriate WP:IC.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:10, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

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Hey Bluesangrel

I'm sending you this because you've made quite a few edits to the template namespace in the past couple of months. If I've got this wrong, or if I haven't but you're not interested in my request, don't worry; this is the only notice I'm sending out on the subject :).

So, as you know (or should know - we sent out a centralnotice and several watchlist notices) we're planning to deploy the VisualEditor on Monday, 1 July, as the default editor. For those of us who prefer markup editing, fear not; we'll still be able to use the markup editor, which isn't going anywhere.

What's important here, though, is that the VisualEditor features an interactive template inspector; you click an icon on a template and it shows you the parameters, the contents of those fields, and human-readable parameter names, along with descriptions of what each parameter does. Personally, I find this pretty awesome, and from Monday it's going to be heavily used, since, as said, the VisualEditor will become the default.

The thing that generates the human-readable names and descriptions is a small JSON data structure, loaded through an extension called TemplateData. I'm reaching out to you in the hopes that you'd be willing and able to put some time into adding TemplateData to high-profile templates. It's pretty easy to understand (heck, if I can write it, anyone can) and you can find a guide here, along with a list of prominent templates, although I suspect we can all hazard a guess as to high-profile templates that would benefit from this. Hopefully you're willing to give it a try; the more TemplateData sections get added, the better the interface can be. If you run into any problems, drop a note on the Feedback page.

Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:45, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Kostas[edit]

I semiprotected the article for a week. If problems continue, let me know. You can point people to this article: [11] Zagalejo^^^ 00:57, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Nationality[edit]

Fair enough, you have a point. But I strongly believe that a dual citizenship indication would solve the problem. It would definitely be more accurate to state both place of birth (or origin) AND national team affiliation. Tell me how you stand on this. Gtrbolivar (talk) 10:28, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

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Glyniadakis weight[edit]

Ok, for now I'll assume that Lietuvos rytas page is wrong. But in that case change the weight to whatever you think is right in "Template:Lietuvos rytas roster" too, thanks. 78.57.139.198 (talk) 02:13, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Club Deportivo San Andrés Basquet[edit]

Hello Bluesangrel,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Club Deportivo San Andrés Basquet for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly say why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Sourov0000 (talk) 22:14, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Columbia Sertoma Club[edit]

Hello Bluesangrel,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Columbia Sertoma Club for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly say why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Sourov0000 (talk) 22:34, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

August 2013[edit]

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October 2013[edit]

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Proposed deletion of Joseph Troy Smith[edit]

Hello, Bluesangrel. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Joseph Troy Smith, for deletion because it's a biography of a living person that lacks references. If you don't want Joseph Troy Smith to be deleted, please add a reference to the article.

If you don't understand this message, you can leave a note on my talk page.

Thanks, Sulfurboy (talk) 04:23, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

EC Pinheiros[edit]

I am very glad, you take an interest. Your maintenance of the basketball article of the club is highly appreciated. I certainly shall not intervene with your efforts there. I personally think, that the main article has to have some kind of unitarian look and feel. Therefore there "FC", "SC" and so forth are not separated by dots as in "S. C." - this is generally no necessarily done thing anymore. Also, when you look up Olympiacos BC oh Google, or wherever, you will find the dots, aka "flyshit" are in no way standard, or even compulsory. I would highly appreciate, if you could kindly respect my contribution to the article. When I initially took it on, it looked like this. Other authors from this point forward have essentially not done much else, but fiddling with the basketball roster. Also many images are sourced and uploaded by myself → Commons-Category SC Germânia. If you wish to improve quality anywhere, you may wish to not look further than eg., Esporte Clube Sírio (basketball), which you have initiated yourself. Once that kind of has reached a level, then maybe you can tell other users how to write the Wikipedia. I thank you very much for your very kind attention to this matter. Oalexander-En (talk) 06:11, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Nikos Papanikolopoulos[edit]

Could you update his article? It looks like it is a couple of years out of date and is missing several clubs. Thanks! Rikster2 (talk) 18:39, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I will work on it.

Giannis Antetokounmpo[edit]

Look, I know nothing about him, or Greek or the bad pronunciation. And to be honest, I don't care. This is how it is spelt everywhere, NBA.com spells it like this so this is what I'm going with. I'm guessing this is what you're talking about? It has "Adetokoubo" but also says "Also known as: Giannis Antetokounmpo". It's not going to be acceptable to just change it throughout the article without proper discussion first and/or moving the page completely (the latter I highly recommend you refrain from doing). DaHuzyBru (talk) 03:34, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Can you take a look at this article?[edit]

Chris Roupas. Do you have any sources that verify this player was active in Greek basketball in the 1982-83 season? I have questions about the article and cannot verify this claim. Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 15:21, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Bluesangrel, I also sent this to Rikster2, Feel free to contact me, Bob Miller, now retired sports historian, at BobMiller@GoPSUsports.com if you would like me to send you any verification on Chris Roupas playing in the 1982-83 Greek Professional basketball season. In addition to several interviews with other players who played against and with Roupas that we used for our research and museum, I also have two Super Basket magazines from Athens in 1982 which one has a small paragraph chatting with Roupas and another talks about their team. We also have several greek newspaper box scores which mention Roupas. I also interviewed Roupas in person for another project here at Penn State which discusses his play in Greece along with talking with his former USA-AHEPA Coach Monthe Kofos who saw him play in Greece.

I want to thank you for all you have done on Wiki-pedia for all the readers. I am truly impressed with what I read. Keep up the good work and please contact me if you would like anything. All the best and Happy New Year.PSUSTATS (talk) 01:54, 2 January 2014 (UTC)PSUSTATS (talk) 01:58, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Ways to improve Nacho Martín[edit]

Hi, I'm Versace1608. Bluesangrel, thanks for creating Nacho Martín!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add additional sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. versace1608 (talk) 22:13, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:HEBA logo Greek.jpg)[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svg Thanks for uploading File:HEBA logo Greek.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Werieth (talk) 16:01, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanasis Antetokounmpo[edit]

Well known? How is it well known? Nowhere in the reference that you cited does it say "Greek Freak 2". And second, Dime Magazine is not a very reliable source. Why is it so important to state a silly nickname anyway? Nicknames shouldn't even be in the intro paragraph, see here WP:OPENPARA. DaHuzyBru (talk) 04:21, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Just provide a reliable source that states "Greek Freak 2" and it's all good. Why provide a source that doesn't back that up? DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:42, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
One edit war in my three years of Wikipedia is hardly a big deal, but ok. I'm all up for re-adding his nickname, just find another source? Why, if someone disagrees with a source, don't you just find another one if you believe the nickname to be true? So I disagree with the source you provided (which is fair because Dime Magazine is not a particularly reliable source, which I've explain multiple times to you), just find something else? Surely there's another source somewhere that can back that up if it's well known?? In terms of the D-League, is there a link other than YouTube that can back that up such as a feature on him of anything? But you know what, I'm going to level with you. I'm going to re-add the nickname with your Dime Magazine source and a YouTube source. DaHuzyBru (talk) 04:21, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

About European Leagues Rankings[edit]

Hi, firstly sorry for deleting it without consulting. I deleted it because it is not a real ranking, only an interpretation about the allocation criteria (the real ranking).

Anyway, I like your idea about adding them to the Historical rankings article. Gonzaka (talk) 07:32, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Antetokounmpo[edit]

That's all good mate. I can't argue with that because I know nothing about Greek basketball, but thanks for the info none-the-less. Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 23:34, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

About Triumph and Zenit[edit]

Hi. Despite being technically the same team, it changes everything (location, arena, name, colors…), so I consider it would be good to keep Triumph's history, which it could continue playing at Super League, in a different article. There are similar cases in football with separated articles (e.g. CF Ciudad de MurciaGranada 74 CF, similar but not exactly Wimbledon F.C.Milton Keynes Dons F.C. or the NFL relocations, which keep the history of other cities and names in different articles).

Anyway, I'd like to know more opinions. Cheers. Asturkian (talk) 07:19, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

No, in the article of Triumph's website about its relocation they say they are trying to keep the team in Super League for continue having basketball at Lyubertsy. Cheers. Asturkian (talk) 07:26, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Perfectly explained, thank you! If the new article finally merges with Triumph's actual one it would be good to differentiate the old era and the new Zenit's one. Asturkian (talk) 07:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi again, sorry for my absence but I was travelling by holidays. OK, I agree to merge both articles, but imo it would be good to "separate" some things about both teams like honours, season-to-season, notable players and others. Anyway, with your edits everything in the article is now good (I added the old logo in the history section). Cheers. Asturkian (talk) 20:12, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Kolossos Rodou logo.jpg[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:Kolossos Rodou logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 16:17, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

On doping allegations of Ioannis Bourousis[edit]

Please stop removing the well-reported allegations for doping for Ioannis Bouroussis. All reports were published in respectable press. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Partoni (talkcontribs) 09:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Your edits there are not proper edits. There was no "doping scandal" and he was not "caught up in a doping scandal". You can't make claims like that when it did not happen. What happened was his phone was wiretapped and he did not know it, because his father in law was under investigation. So he was talking on the phone with his father in law, not realizing he was being recorded. His father in law asked him how he felt ready for the next big game and if he felt strong and Bourousis jokingly said yes he felt strong because he took his juice so he was feeling strong, then they both laughed. That was it. And there was never any investigation. He never admitted to "doping". He was never investigated for "doping". He never failed a drug test. In fact, right after that he voluntarily took several tests in a row and passed all of them. WADA looked into it and there was absolutely nothing to it. There was no "doping", he was not "caught up in a scandal", etc. So the edit you made was quite frankly ridiculous. And the sources you linked simply mention as I said, that his father in law had his phone tapped and that Bourousis made a joke on it. That was it. You can't take that and then make an edit that APPEARS on Wikipedia that he doped and was involved in a doping scandal, when he wasn't. Especially when anyone doing that in European basketball automatically gets suspended from playing in any games for 2 years. And of course he was never suspended for even one game - because he did not dope and there was no such actual incident. I am sorry, but no, you would have to explain CLEARLY the situation as it was first of all in the edit, and also remove nonsense like "caught up in a doping scandal" and a headline like "doping scandal". But also beyond that, this basically is tantamount to turning Wikipedia into something like TMZ, which I really do not think is encyclopedic, which is what is the whole point here. If a journalist or website or paper prints such stories it is sensationalist tabloid junk. That is their write to do so. If a news TV station reports it, it is the same. It is their right to do so. But it still is sensationalist junk, no matter who says it. You can't turn that around and claim "it came from a legit source". That's not encyclopedic. You could simply as I said, if you were that intent on it, maybe say what actually happened, that his father in law had his phone tapped and what was said in a joke in a private phone call, which was then sensationalized into a nonsense by some press. Not claim there was a "doping scandal" when there was none. It makes it look to anyone reading the article like he doped, when he did not. And that also implies some kind of an agenda in the edits also. I am sure that goes against Wikipedia editing rules. Especially since it is a situation where English readers would not know any better, because the whole issue is something only Greek readers would actually know about. So to someone reading English Wikipedia they would read that edit and just automatically assume he doped, when he did not, as was proven by the fact he immediately was tested several times and passed all the tests and WADA looked into it, and said there was nothing at all to it. Sorry, but taking a joke said in a taped phone call and editing to appear like a guy in fact doped when he did not, is not proper editing.Bluesangrel (talk) 21:43, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I am sorry but I feel like your reply does not adhere to NPOV. The fact that he did not know he was recorded has nothing to do with whether he was getting some ALLEGED dope. You appear rather misinformed, and since you most possibly are Greek, you can read the article at :http://www.gazzetta.gr/article/item/203834-sokarei-o-dialogos-mpourouse-psomiade . Bourousis was certainly not joking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Partoni (talkcontribs) 15:12, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

He never once said anything about "dope". This is where you are implying things that are not true. You are taking speculation and passing it off as fact. Speculation that was later proven to be unsubstantiated. Never mind that he immediately volunteered to take drug tests and passed them. Not once, but multiple. The sources you mention, only mention the Greek League, and how it did not test, implying he could "dope" and get away with it. But the Euroleague also tests, and he was tested by the Euroleague and passed. He also volunteered a test sample to WADA and was cleared. At no time did he say he "doped" or admit to "doping". This is not even a Lance Armstrong type thing here, because WADA said they looked into it, and that there was not any "medicine" bought, they were just joking. Like I said, I believe this needs to be taken to an actual discussion, because it clearly is controversial if the edits would be insisted on being let their as "doping scandal" and "doped". But I am willing to leave it as it I edited, or if you would explain it more properly. However, it does not seem you are interested in that. You can give many sources that can claim many things, especially when they are coming from Panathinaikos paid journalists and just trying to stir up controversy and all of that. It does not mean it is true, nor that any of it was was actually proved, nor that at any of it was actually held up under scrutiny to be true. Because none of it was. Otherwise Bourousis would have been suspended by WADA for 2-4 years from playing basketball in Europe as is their standard policy in all such matters. He was never suspended for a single game for "doping". That is the simple actual fact of the matter, because he did not dope and he did not actually buy any dope, as in PEDs. And they know that, due to that his father in law, the one in question in these taped phone calls, was under investigation the whole time by the government. So they know that they actually never did send him any "dope" and they were just joking about it. Because they were being monitored by the feds the entire time and under surveillance the entire time.Bluesangrel (talk) 23:15, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Dimitris Melissanidis and Ioannis Bourousis[edit]

I really don't know anything about Dimitris Melissanidis, but I know that "Controversies" sections are generally discouraged; see Wikipedia:Criticism#Avoid_sections_and_articles_focusing_on_criticisms_or_controversies. You might want to post a message at the biographies noticeboard for help. Maybe someone there will be more familiar with the subject of the article, and can offer some specific advice.

As for Bourousis, can you cite any specific sources to back up your arguments? I think that would be the most effective way to make your case. I don't read Greek, and I'm not sure how to judge Greek sources, so there's not a whole lot I can do myself. If you continue to have problems, look for help at the biographies noticeboard. Zagalejo^^^ 00:35, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Could you at least point to a source that says he "he volunteered and passed the WADA tests"? I think that could settle things. Zagalejo^^^ 15:23, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
I just don't feel comfortable getting involved in a situation where I have no real knowledge of the subject manner being discussed. I suggest you take your concerns to the biographies noticeboard. Maybe someone there will have a deeper understanding. I'm afraid I'd end up making things worse.
I do think you should make an effort to track down any specific sources of information that would help you. I'm not sure where you're posting from, but maybe you can find a librarian to help you out. Ultimately, the way to win arguments is to cite sources, rather than relying entirely on your memory. Zagalejo^^^ 15:07, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Well, you mentioned that "he volunteered and passed the WADA tests"; I assumed that was something you had read somewhere. Anyway, if you can find someone who'd be more knowledgeable about the topic, feel free to talk to that person. Zagalejo^^^ 02:14, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
I did, but this happened a long time ago and that was it. The other editor is making a big deal out of nothing. Just out of honestly Panathinaikos related media hype. The other article is someone related to AEK and Bourousis is related to AEK and Olympiacos and they are big rivals of Panathinaikos, if you see what I mean. So yes, I will talk to the other editor about it, problem is they only edit in Greek now that I see their edits so I don't think it is a solution. Is there anyway that fact that Greek Wiki does not allow the edits and has removed them as improper already from the article would account for something? I went through article to in Greek and it does not have that there and I checked the edit history there and they were placed there before by IP edits and removed always by the Greek editors as improper on the Greek article. Would this be considered?Bluesangrel (talk) 02:27, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Maybe. Do you think this article would help you out? I'm relying on Google translate, and I don't know anything about that website, but the story seems to say that his tests came out clean. Zagalejo^^^ 00:57, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
I imagine there are a number of other sources out there if you do some digging. To be honest, I'm not convinced the "Doping-related controversy" section should be deleted entirely, since I get the impression it was a fairly significant news story. But what you should do is add some content to the section explaining how his tests came clean. Zagalejo^^^ 00:44, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
He hasn't edited at all in several days, and he's only really edited a handful of times ever. Try making some edits to the article, and see what happens. Zagalejo^^^ 02:21, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

October 2014[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for October 6[edit]

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Proposed deletion of the Euroleague Finals article[edit]

Hi. I have just proposed the deletion of this article because its text is exactly the same as it appears in the Euroleague Basketball#Finals article. I'd appreciate your collaboration in this discussion. Asturkian (talk) 00:24, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Serie A2 Basket[edit]

Hi, Bluesangrel. Following the Italian article (this season) and the official website, the second division is called "Serie A2", divided into two groups (gold and silver). I consider, following these criteria, both Gold and Silver are in the same tier as teams can promote directly to Serie A. Asturkian (talk) 07:26, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

This is the problem. It's not easy to consider them as two groups in the same division or two divisions in the same tier. Teams can promote from both groups to Serie A, but you can only relegate to Serie B from Silver. The league website consider both groups join the "A2 Playoffs", not the "A2 Gold/Silver playoffs". In a league system, it would be represented as this:
1 Serie A
000000000
2
A2 Gold →
0

←A2 Silver
3 000000000
Serie B
Strange. Spain had this system in the early 1990s and it was horrible. Maybe it would be good to take this discuss to WP:HOOPS. Asturkian (talk) 07:41, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Strasbourg IG logo.jpg[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:Strasbourg IG logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Re: My opinion about conflicts[edit]

Hi. I wouldn't go that way. I even don't remember quite good my experience with that specific user. But, if you think you are OK with your edits, leave him a message on his/her TP. If you can't reach a consensus, clearly with two completely countering opinions on issue, ask for a third-person involvement, but for specific problem only and not generally. Leave a message on article's TP, and further, if there is no answer, go to WikiProject (e.g. Basketball) pages where more contributors can see your post/problem. And please, don't go into conflict and make sure you know everything about WP:EW for a start. If you want some extra advise, leave a message at my TP. Bye!--AirWolf talk 19:43, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Already told you what would I do. I see you did it. Try to activate more users in a discussion.--AirWolf talk 20:06, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
I am trying, but not only does no one talk about it at all, only other editors agree with Julian and even go agree to delete my articles. I am seeing that there is a bullying tactic going on, and I am getting very frustrated by it. I think this is definitely going to have be reported to moderators if something does not change. I can't allow it to go unchecked, because I can see Julian is going to just keep doing this.Bluesangrel (talk) 01:23, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, but based on what you wrote there considering me, I'm not willing to participate any further and eventually "help your case".--AirWolf talk 18:07, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:All-Europe Player of the Year[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:All-Europe Player of the Year has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. —Bagumba (talk) 04:25, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

ANI[edit]

Your post on ANI is more likely to get a response if you break off the wall of text you posted into logical paragraphs. Right now, it is difficult to digest and understand exactly what is the nature of your complaint. It would also help if you posted evidence (diffs) to support your allegation. Right now, your complaint reads like one long story but what is required is an argument that presents evidence. As it is, I don't think you will get a positive response to your comment to the noticeboard. Liz Read! Talk! 18:04, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

  • I concur with Liz's assessment of your post. Further, the one thing I did check into (quoting your post..." already my article All-Europe Player of the Year was deleted, with the reason being given that I had no external sources provided in the article. That however is a flat out lie.") is incorrect. The article was deleted because, in the opinion of the editors commenting, its subject failed Wikipedia's notability guideline. When you do not support your position with directions to the source of your assertions and when those assertions are found to to be misstated or a product of the complainant's lack of experience or competence, it gives one the impression that the balance of the complaint is also lacking substance. Have you read WP:Notability? I would advise you to start there. Tiderolls 18:53, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
  • But the article did meet the notability guideline. I read it several times, and it did meet it. And it did have external media sources, which is the reason being cited, when I asked why my articles don't meet the guidelines. I asked why, after reading the notability, that it did meet it, and the reason given in articles being nominated it no external sources, which it did have. I am fully aware that now since the article is deleted i can't prove any of this. But I have two more articles up for deletion, and the same is being pulled on them. And the issue still remains. They were nominated out of a grudge. And even if the article did not meet the notability guideline, which is did, why is it OK to nominate an editor's several articles out of a personal grudge? I would at least like a verification on that. So far I have not gotten any explanation for that. It's also very easy to criticize the article, after it is deleted. Perhaps you could put your input into the other articles he nominated for deletion. Actually, if you would notice, i am being very objective, because I read the notability guidelines several times, and one of my articles, ONE of them that he nominated did not meet the criteria. And guess what? I never said a word about it. I never even contested it. Even though I was never notified of it being nominated, even though it was out of a grudge, I never argued, never posted in the discussion, nothing. I simply let it go. The other articles, however, were legit articles and had no reason to be deleted. Also, why is there no notification being given when he nominated your articles for deletion? I only noticed it by luck, days before they were to be deleted, in this one case too late.Bluesangrel (talk) 19:08, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Your insistence on having an independent admin review your situation has been met on this very page. Twice. You do not want to listen so I stopped posting. However, your persistent view that everyone that holds a different opinion than yourself is wrong or colluding against you is getting old. It's time for you to accept the possibility that the opinions of others hold some merit. Tiderolls 21:50, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
I will do as the site guidelines state. Talk to the editor that actually deleted the article. That is what the site guidelines say to do, and I am following them. It is what I should have done in the first place, as no one at the notice board seems to be interested in it, other than to say the articles were rightly deleted or whatever. So I am going to talk to the admin that deleted the article. Wikipedia:Why was the page I created deleted? That is what it tells you to do. So I am following site procedure. I don't need to constantly be critiqued all the time. I am doing exactly what I am supposed to be doing. And yes, according to the site, it is perfectly normal and acceptable to contest your articles being deleted. That is what I am doing.Bluesangrel (talk) 22:06, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks so much Liz for inviting me. I love Wikipedia soooo much! I can't wait to do great things. But how do you get badges.

A kitten for you![edit]

Youngkitten.JPG

Thanks for everything! Here is a lovely kitten to brighten your world!. LOAWA

Life Of A Wiki Amatuer (talk) 02:24, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

ANI notice[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Boomerang on Bluesangrel. Thank you.—Bagumba (talk) 19:33, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

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Nomination for deletion of Template:All-Europeans Player of the Year[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:All-Europeans Player of the Year has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. —Bagumba (talk) 21:07, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/All-Europeans Player of the Year[edit]

I didn't delete the article, I just made a comment there. The article was deleted by User:Xymmax. Kraxler (talk) 00:49, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

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Hi[edit]

First of all you need to learn to use button SHOW PREVIEW... you can not make 19 edits, like you did to Alexey Shved. I will revert changes like that, cause i have that on my watchlist and i dont have time to control your 19 changes. And i just dont get it how you can not learn to use PREVIEW... you are 5 years on wiki and still doing that. Second thing that i want to say to you is that you can not just add national league cause many clubs in Europe are playing in two or three leagues so or add all leagues in text or not add anything. And you can not compare Europe with NBA teams because in NBA clubs are playing in only one league and in Europe that is not the case.--Bozalegenda (talk) 15:34, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

I have no idea why you think that listing a national basketball league a player played in, other than the NBA, should not be allowed on this site, and that doing do so, should cause automatic reverting of edits. Your reason given, that the player plays in more than one league, therefore only the country should be listed, does not justify reverting entire article edits, especially when many of those edits have nothing to do with that. Also, you say to list the country the player played in instead, and not the league they played in. I did that more than once, by listing the country and the league they played in. You reverted the edits again. So after I did what you told me to do (not asked me to do, but told me to do), you still reverted the article's edits. And in doing so, again you removed other edits that were made that had nothing to do with that issue.
Wiki links that needed to be fixed get removed, etc. All because you revert the whole article. This has been done in numerous articles now by you. I also gave you the explanation that this makes no sense anyway, because that is the equivalent of making a rule that you can't say a player played in NCAA, the NBA, or the D-League, and only that they played in USA. And any reference to them playing in those basketball competitions, and not just that they played in USA, would then need to be reverted. And all other edits made besides that in an article, then would need to be reverted also, even if they have nothing to do with that issue. This is what you are doing. Your reason given that there is more than one league in Europe, or a country, makes no justification of that. There is more than one league and basketball level in USA also.
In regards to you saying you watch certain articles, and that if a certain number of edits are made to them, you automatically revert them, because you can't be bothered to check the edits - that is not a valid reason to be reverting an article's edits. Yet you keep stating you simply have reverted for that reason. And I use the preview button all the time. I have created a lot of articles here, and believe me, it is impossible to create articles without knowing and understanding how to use the preview button. In fact, if I make one edit to an article, you have been reverting still. I corrected a few things, making one edit, after some of your reverts, at articles like Daniel Hackett and Bo McCalebb, and you in turn, also reverted those edits.
I have also taken this issue of only being able to supposedly list a country a basketball player played in, and not the league they played in (only supposedly if it is not in the USA, according to your statements), to the basketball project discussion page. I personally wonder why we have the league articles created in wiki for basketball leagues other than the NBA, if we are not actually allowed to list those same said basketball league articles in any basketball player's articles. That seems a bit bizarre to me, yet you seem to have this as a site rule that you have set. And your argument that since some players play in more than one league in Europe - that then means that you can't list the national league they played in, but just the country they played in, just does not add up. What about the fact each country has more than one basketball league? What about the fact that if a player plays in more than one league, then they are also playing in more than one country, since they are then playing in international supra leagues, and are then not actually just playing in one country? In other words, what you are arguing isn't even factually correct to begin with.Bluesangrel (talk) 22:07, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Mate just use all league names and everything will be fine. If club plays in ABA Leauge, Serbian League and Euroleague than you must add all leagues not just Serbian League... and once again for teams in USA we dont need to add name of the country cause their are playing in just one league.--Bozalegenda (talk) 12:17, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:24, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Euroleague Final Four All-Tournament team[edit]

All-tournament honors are never listed in the inbox. There are just too many tournaments a player could take part in. The cutoff is tournament MVP awards. Rikster2 (talk) 22:47, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I answered you at my Talk page. Rikster2 (talk) 23:54, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

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FIBA Europe Women's Player of the Year Award[edit]

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Colour in faros keratsiniou[edit]

How did you putted the colours in Faros team and players?? Savvasg21 (talk) 13:36, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Hey. I went here to edit it [12] - after you click on the edit button, scroll down to the Greek League section. It takes awhile to get to it. It starts with NBA teams, then former NBA teams, then D-League teams, then former D-League teams, then WNBA teams, former WNBA teams, then after that you get to Euroleague teams finally. Then after the Euroleague teams you get to Adriatic League teams, then it starts with national domestic league teams in alphabet order. So like there is Angola, then Belgium, and so forth. The Greek teams start at numbers 316-317 with Nea Kifissia (AENK), and end at numbers 343-344 with Faros, after I added it in. It took me awhile to figure out exactly how to edit it, but it's not that hard. I was thinking we probably should add the second division teams, or maybe at least add the teams that used to play in first division, or like the teams that used to play in European cups.Bluesangrel (talk) 22:51, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Giannis Antetokounmpo[edit]

Hey. Would you be able to put Giannis Antetokounmpo on your watchlist and revert where necessary with explanation when Nigerian is re-added. I had a big fuss with a couple of Greek users who are clearly under the impression he has Nigerian citizenship. The user who originally added "Greek / Nigerian" cited Antetokounmpo's NBA.com bio page which states "has dual citizenship". I know you are a Greek basketball based editor here, so would you be able to help out in the future? Because with your content removal, Nigerian is likely to be re-added in the very near future. Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 03:40, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

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FIBA-Euroleague controversy[edit]

Hello. In my sandbox I'm trying to write a new article about the long controversy about FIBA and Euroleague. As I'm not the best writer in the world and surely I'm missing a lot of things in it, I'd like that you and others help me to write it properly. Thank you. Asturkian (talk) 16:05, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Basketball[edit]

Hi, please note all information needs to be cited, and for the TBF article I believe I only removed old tagged sections, and it was me who added the sole reference. Unreferenced information should not be added back in. Thanks. Eldumpo (talk) 22:03, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

That rankings article was pretty bad, just a lot of random facts (mostly uncited), with no reliable source indicating they should form the basis of an article. Hopefully it's now mostly sourced. Citation and verifiabilty is one of the cores of Wikipedia.Eldumpo (talk) 22:11, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Any information can be removed if it's uncited. The core pillars of Wikipedia are notability and verifiabilty, although without citations you have neither. If there are not reliable sources ranking leagues then the article should not exist, if there are they should be added. Citation needed tags should not be removed unless suitable references are added. You may therefore want to consider your recent edit to the article.Eldumpo (talk) 06:23, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

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Diamantidis article[edit]

Hey friend. I am a huge fan of your wikipedia work first of all, keep it up as much as you can as your contribution is invaluable.

I noticed you reacted to Frank Lawlor's statement about Diamantidis dominating at both ends of the court as no other Euroleague player of his generation. I understand we are talking about the statement of one person, however he is arguably one of the most established beat writers about Euroleague basketball and his article is from the official Euroleague website. Secondly I believe Diamantidis is indeed the only Euroleague player of his generation who cumulated several all-Euroleague distinctions and Best defender awards, making a significant difference both on defense and the offensive end. Consequently, the statement is based on numerous facts, seems to be perfectly fulfilling wikipedia's site policy and to be indeed encyclopedic.

Besides that, I did back up my claim that he serves as an inspiration to a whole generation of European young stars, as opposed to just Greek, by including Kuzminskas and Heurtel's quotes as references, plus Lamonica generally stating that "Many kids will star playing basketball, watching players like him".

Please do not see this message as an insult to your editing, but rather as me being interested in a major editor's opinion more than anything else. Thanks for taking the time to read this and I am looking forward to your response anytime you can.

Parisinos (talk) 16:28, 24 May 2016 (CET)

Hey again,

Thank you very much for answering my message.

I do get where you're coming from and trust me, we're on the same page here. As a matter of fact, I completely agree with you that the Panathinaikos fan base is going overboard when it concerns Diamantidis, and to be completely honest, I was slightly uncomfortable using the "dominated" part; the reason again is obvious as just like you said, no Euroleague player was entirely dominant after Bodiroga's two year span in 2002-03, besides Diamantidis in 2011 indeed. Obviously one season is the exception and should not be considered as any kind of hard proof. Just to be clear, I mostly was trying to stay faithful to Lawlor's statement, but I should have found a more appropriate formulation. What is tricky with Diamantidis is that, while he mostly was not dominant all the way for most of his career, he is a one of a kind player in that he undoubtedly was the best "two-way" Euroleague player of his generation. So basically on one hand he was the absolute best by a wide margin on defense and has the awards to back it up. On the other hand, while he certainly was not the best in offense, his production being simply average in terms of sheer numbers, his offensive game has several wrinkles and he scored countless crucial baskets leading Panathinaikos to important wins or titles. All in all, dominant no, but among his generation, objectively the best package deal in offense and defense combined, which is what I want to express. So what do you think of something like: "Widely regarded as one of the greatest Europeans ever to grace the game, he marked his era by being the most versatile player in the Euroleague, thus serving as an inspiration to a whole generation of young European stars"? I should specify that concerning the inspiration part, in no way do I mean that he is the one and only who served as an inspiration, but that does not mean there were many either. Together with a few others like Spanoulis above all and Jasikevicius, Navarro, Siskauskas or now Teodosic, he did indeed serve as a role model all over Europe.

Besides that, I am glad you mentionned Spanoulis in particular cause I am the one who seriously edited the introduction of his wikipedia bio a few years back, greatly shaping it like it is today and highlighting how great a player he is. The difference with Diamantidis is that he is not done yet, therefore I did not want to directly emphasize his place up there with the holy monsters of European basketball before all is "written". My ultimate goal is to do just that when he retires, thus accentuating that he and Diamantidis mirror each other in what is without a doubt the biggest and most thrilling rivalry in European basketball since 2011. As you well know, presentation and marketing are paramount in promoting a sport, and Euroleague basketball most definitely needs a push in that aspect. Followig that logic and since I believe we do need heroes, if you'll allow me to disagree with you on one single thing, it's that when important personalities claim someone is the best or one of the best, it should be mentioned as such, meaning "he is considered by many to be...". My point is that there may not be a Jordan nor a Chamberlain in the Euroleague, but some players are very special, significantly more special than their competition, and they deserve their presentation to reflect that on a worldwide platform such as wikipedia.

It is a real pleasure exchanging opinions with you.

Parisinos (talk) 11:24, 25 May 2016 (CET)

Good morning to you friend,

Hope you're feeling inspired in your editing work. To keep it short, I'll go ahead and put on the Diamantidis article the formulation I wrote you about, "Widely regarded as one of the greatest Europeans ever to grace the game, he marked his era by being the most versatile player in the Euroleague, thus serving as an inspiration to a whole generation of young European stars". Needless to say, it is open to debate if you feel like it and we could adjust it a bit more if necessary. See you around on the boards.

Parisinos (talk) 10:22, 27 May 2016 (CET)

Hello there,

Thank you very much for your feedback, I am glad we agree on the ideal formulation. My ultimate goal is to work on the articles of as many European basketball greats as possible, highlighting their career the way it should be. Looking forward to cooperating with you again friend.

Parisinos (talk) 10:07, 31 May 2016 (CET)

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Proposed deletion of Néstor García (basketball)[edit]

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PROD Tag[edit]

You can remove a WP:BLPPROD tag from an article once you add a reference; that satisfies the purpose of the tag. I've just removed the one from Néstor García (basketball), since you added a reference, but you can do so yourself in the future once you source an article. Just wanted to let you know; thanks. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 00:21, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

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August 2016[edit]

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File:Aries Trikala B.C. Logo.png listed for discussion[edit]

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FIBA-Euroleague controversy[edit]

Hi, the company's name is Euroleague Basketball (or simply Euroleague), the premier competition is Turkish Airliines EuroLeague (or simply EuroLeague) and the second competition is 7DAYS EuroCup (or simply EuroCup) as you can see at the official websites and some news selected randomly. 1 2 3 4 5 Only for the competitions are with capital letter, but for the company, Euroleague Store, Euroleague Basketball One Team, Euroleague TV and Euroleague Basketball Institute are with lowercase letter as you can see at the official websites. 6 7 8 9

The article is about the controversy between the two companies (FIBA and Euroleague Basketball). 10 and it should be named 2015–16 FIBA-Euroleague (Basketball) controversy. --Vasconia (talk)

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Basketball contributions[edit]

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About your edit to FIBA Intercontinental Cup and 2016 FIBA Intercontinental Cup[edit]

Fraport Skyliners won the 2015–16 FIBA Europe Cup, so they could compete in 2016 FIBA Intercontinental Cup. When they won the FIBA Europe Cup, this tournament was not 4th-tier, but 3rd-tier. I think this should be clarified. Cirolchou (talk) 8:10, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

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Copying within Wikipedia requires proper attribution[edit]

Information icon Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from European national basketball league rankings into European professional basketball club rankings. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was moved, attribution is not required. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 15:18, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

FIBA World Championship squad navboxes[edit]

Sorry, I just noticed the message you left me about these. I didn't mean to ignore you. I guess that discussion is over. But honestly, I never had a strong opinion about those navboxes one way or the other. Zagalejo^^^ 17:14, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

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Page[edit]

Hello my page doesnt appear on Google engine, do you know what i have yo do to make it possible to appear on search engines? 34ballerman35 (talk) 19:29, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Autopatrolled[edit]

Hi Bluesangrel. I've just marked a bunch of your pages in the WP:NPP queue as patrolled. Would you be interested in applying for Wikipedia:Autopatrolled privs at Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions/Autopatrolled? I'd nominate you myself if it weren't for the likelihood that you'd get a question re the ?unacknowledged? ping re attribution at European professional basketball club rankings. Thanks, ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 12:29, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Basketball article needs to be better referenced[edit]

Hey there. The issue with a number of basketball articles, such as Euroleague, is that too much information is not backed up by references. An article is only worthwhile if the material can be verified. There are whole sections without any references. Any time new material is added that should always be referenced. BT Curry (talk) 18:18, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

A reference isn't necessary after every sentence, however, a reference should be somewhere in the article that backs it up. Anyone reading that Euroleague article has no idea if what it says is true or not because there's no reference to go with it. BT Curry (talk) 18:26, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
It needs additional references. Some things are referenced, a huge amount is not. BT Curry (talk) 18:31, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

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A page you started (Ivan Lazarev (basketball)) has been reviewed![edit]

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Speedy deletion nomination of Arcadia Shipmanagement Co. Ltd.[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Arcadia Shipmanagement Co. Ltd. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a company, corporation or organization, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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Aleksandar Nikolic Hall capacity issue[edit]

Hello Bluesangrel.

I keep repeating that official capacity of the AN hall stands at 5,878. That figure stands at the offical web site of hall operator which runs Aleksandar Nikolic Hall: "Tasmajdan". It is explained in detail on that website (in Serbian though): on tribunes there are 4,149 seats, Parter B has 575 seats, Parter 4 has 250 seats, White Parter has 147 seats, Blue Lodge (Box) has 232 seats, White Lodge (Box) has 250 seats, VIP box 250 seats, Extra VIP box 25 seats. There are no more seats in the hall besides those above mentioned! Plain and simple... And there is no space to speculate really, I dont know how familiar you are with habits of basketball clubs in Serbia to put in sale 10-20% more tickets than there are seats in the hall, especially in those more glitzy games against Real Madrid, Barca, Fenerbahce, Oly, Pao, CSKA, in order to earn some more money... You can notice that overhwhelming majority of game reports regarding number spectators are somewhat vague as there are not really precise data about the numbers of spectators and the figures are often rounded figures (e.g. such as that figure from the Euroleague source that you are reffering to - they don't say there how they break up capacity by different tribunes and lodges, you know why, because if they break up tribune by tribune, lodge by lodgg tehy will not come up with that figure of 6,500 surely). All I am saying that we sholud stick up with official figures - and there is no more official one than that from the company which runs Aleksandar Nikolic Hall.

Regards

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Disambiguation link notification for March 11[edit]

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Linking[edit]

Instead of linking [[EuroLeague]] [[EuroLeague champion|champion]], can you change it to [[EuroLeague champion]] per MOS:SEAOFBLUE. I've already changed Mike D'Antoni. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 02:49, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

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Kostas Antetokoumpo[edit]

Antetokounmpo brothers obtained for nigerian nationality in 2012, at the Nigerian Embassy of Greece. Due to a problem at Embassy's machine their passport delayed. Kostas and Alex firstly receive nigerian nationality and then nigerian passport.You can't have a passport of one country without to have the nationality of it. For instance Zach Auguste and Alex Vezenkov firstly became greek citizens and after gain the passport.thank you Thanbla (talk) 10:15, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Kokoškov changes[edit]

You have made some changes to Igor Kokoškov recently. So, please read it before make a change. There was a text, quote "As a full-time assistant coach, Kokoškov is the first European to hold such a position in NCAA Division I college basketball, and the first non-American to hold such a position in the NBA." You changed to, quote "and one of the first non-Americans to hold such a position in the NBA" with explanation "I don't think this is true. Jay Triano was a head coach and he's Canadian." What you did make no sense, because that sentence is all about Kokoškov as an assistant coach. He became the assistant coach in 2000, while Jay Triano was hired on the same position in 2002. --IndexAccount (talk) 13:54, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

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Date ranges[edit]

When you are adding highlights to basketball infoboxes, could you please use ranges fr 3 or more consecutive wins? In other words, use “1995–1999” instead of “1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999.” Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 01:33, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

OKBluesangrel (talk) 01:43, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Mitteldeutscher BC[edit]

Hello, please don't remove the "BC" in the infobox. The name means "Central German BC", so "Mitteldeutscher" is an adjective and needs a noun to refer to. Thanks, --Axolotl Nr.733 (talk) 19:03, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve FIBA Saporta Cup records[edit]

Hi, I'm Barkeep49. Bluesangrel, thanks for creating FIBA Saporta Cup records!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Can you add citations or references to this page? Seems notable but also smacks of OR right now.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:58, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

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Basketball triple crown[edit]

Hello Bluesangrel, since you seem to know quite a bit about basketball, I wanted to ask you my question concerning the triple crown. It seems that only the national cup is counted for this term, but what about national supercups? Don't they count for that? Akocsg (talk) 18:57, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

  • Hi Bluesangrel. I think your post on my talk page was meant for the user who wrote the above message, since I don't edit any European basketball articles. Just wanted to let you know so you could send the message to the intended user. Cheers. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:54, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

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Congratulations[edit]

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Basketball[edit]

Please stop edit warring. I started a discussion at European professional club basketball system. Please reply there and we can discuss individual points. Thanks. --hippo43 (talk) 04:50, 21 September 2018 (UTC) I am not edit warring. In fact, I have not edit warred, nor broken a single site rule. If you think I edit warred, please report to a mod, or I will. Thanks.Bluesangrel (talk) 04:52, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

I didn't say you broke any rules. However, you reverted twice at European professional club basketball system without engaging in the discussion I started there. This included restoring unsourced information, against WP:V. If we just discuss this in the right places I'm sure we can work it all out. Thanks. --hippo43 (talk) 04:57, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
You said to stop edit warring. I never edit warred.Bluesangrel (talk) 04:59, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
Fair enough. However, you reverted twice in 20 minutes without discussing any of it at the article talk page. This seemed to me like beginning "a series of back-and-forth reverts". Probably best that we move on. --hippo43 (talk) 05:05, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
The edits that there are no tiers of European basketball leagues are incorrect, and it is also incorrect to claim that no edits showing they exist are valid.Bluesangrel (talk) 20:45, 21 September 2018 (UTC)