User talk:Bolter21/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Disambiguation link notification for April 22

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Your draft article, Draft:Sheikh Omar Hadid Brigade

Hello, Bolter21. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Sheikh Omar Hadid Brigade".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

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Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Onel5969 TT me 12:26, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for having my back when the troll posted on my page. You might want to ask for page protection as well. Be well. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 15:42, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Bolter21. You have new messages at RolandR's talk page.
Message added 15:26, 30 April 2016 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Pleased to be of service. RolandR (talk) 15:26, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

just remembered that Hebrew is your first language, and you didn't need help to understand the text, but rather to put it into colloquial English. I might have offered a slightly different translation had I realised this earlier. RolandR (talk) 17:04, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
What would it be? Maybe it"ll be better.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:25, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Articles you contributed to have been nominated for Did You Know

Hello, Bolter21. The following articles that you've either created or significantly contributed to:

 have been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you knowDYK comment symbol. Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 15:44, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Well done! Irondome (talk) 22:23, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Template:Ma'ale Iron has been accepted

Template:Ma'ale Iron, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Template-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

333-blue 09:54, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 6

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Ma'ale Iron, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Green Line. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Don't feed the trolls

Hi, When someone makes an obviously POV comment that cannot be supported by any sources - there is no point rebuffing it, especially if nobody takes this comment seriously. The comment could be made as WP:FORUM, a kind of joke, WP:POINT or WP:BAIT. Imo the best reaction is not to respond. “WarKosign” 14:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

I"ll remember that. I hope that until the end of the mount I"ll finish a sort of an essay, to oppose the main claims in the State of Palestine talk. Before that, I asked a foe (who is also my mentor) if there's a place where an admin can revert a consensus. Looking at that discussion today and the older consensus made me wonder why are we (you and me and others) even argue with those absurd and unsourced comments. Clearly there's a majority of the "other POV" and therefore I will make an essay with sources that will also answer the argument by Nishidani (Who was the only one to bring a source) and to determine once and for all that Palestine doesn't exist De-Facto. I"ll send this essay to Dispute Solving Noticeboard or something like that and see what will go there. The lead section is misleading for too long and unlike other articles with dispute, this lead section followed no discussion and has no sources.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 14:37, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Rashid Hussein

On 14 May 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Rashid Hussein, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Palestinian poet Rashid Hussein used Jewish gallows humor in poems he wrote about Arab conditions in Israel? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Rashid Hussein. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Rashid Hussein), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:27, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Please clarify

Bolter, you have repeatedly referred to an admin who is your mentor. I was under the assumption that I was undertaking that role. If you wish me to withdraw then that is your choice which I would fully respect. Kind regards Simon Irondome (talk) 03:39, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
@Irondome: I don't have any other mentor. Although I am secular, I never break the seventh Commandment--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:54, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
Also, how good are you in CopyEditing? I currently have one person to ask when I need copyeditting and I would like to add more people to the cycle of asking them to improve my awfull English (don't worry, I look at their changes and internalize)--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:58, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
I am not an admin B. Very good joke b.t.w. :) Are you seeing another mentor lol. Yes if you have anything for me to look over that is fine. Irondome (talk) 13:10, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
I could have sworn that you were an admin, the first two userboxes you have really resemble the Admin userbox... And if you got the time to look at Ma'ale Iron's history section and see any sentences that can be improved it"ll be great. The main problem is the translation from Hebrew and I can't rely on User:RolandR forever.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 13:21, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
Yeah no worries, will take a look over it and do any c/e that may be necessary. Glad Roland is helping out with translations still. Irondome (talk) 13:36, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Hey

The problem with May 30 is that the report is too short. All we are told is that a stone thrown on Uzi Narkis Street slightly injured someone on the bus. Yanovsky doesn't specify who threw the stone, or the ethnicity of the person injured, so it (so far!) doesn't fit our specifications. I won't remove it, but trust you'll try to run up more details to show it qualifies. Cheers.- Nishidani (talk) 13:24, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Well, I searched on the web and from the sites who reported the incident: Walla! didn't give more information (it said the police is searching for suspects), Channel 10 gave a more spesific location - the incident occured on route 60 (Uzi Narkis) on the junction of the French hill (Which is near Shuafat) and that's a place where a large portion of the stone throwing incidents occur. Galatz reported that the man was wounded from shrapnels in his hand. News 0404 said the thrower was Arab, but also The Jewish Voice and although 0404 is much more moderate in compare to The Jewish Voice they are both very nationalistic, so I wouldn't take them as reliable sources. The 0404 one includes a picture of the broken window but nothing can be understood from that picture except that the window was broken. Nevertheless I had a great laugh from the comment section (some of the greats: "Every stone thrown is another brick in the third temple!", "Is there an Iron Dome for rocks?" <- reply to this: "There should be an Iron Dome for Arabs")
So we know the location, which is a location where many stone throwing occure (also the place where most of the throwings are done on the light rail). Think it's not enough? I really don't mind if it's out of the list.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 15:33, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Sorry to cause you that much bother. In recompense, I'll go with you and keep it in. I leave out half of the stuff I read because I'm unhappy with lack of precision, detail, etc. I used to consider bulldozer incursions into Gaza agricultural land to level ground as 'damage' and registered it, also because it disrupts economic activity. But I've dropped it because no physical harm usually ensues, and mounds may not be planted. By the way, just a tip. 'shrapnel' is always, in English, metallic, and never used of stones (except in my ancient memories of gang warfare, when we would imagine our being wounded by rocks, catapulted or from a shanghai or sling hit us. These abrasions were worn as badges of honour, as good as the embedded shrapnel of returned soldiers:). Nishidani (talk) 15:46, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
ps. just checked your page out. Nice snap. Thought of a variant of your quote. I.e. "In this user's desired world, people without a funny bone will be laughed to death in the city square by a stoned crowd." (but that's me, mindful of how Gazan marijuana made a lot of fellow kibbutz workers laugh uncontrollably back in the good old days). regards Nishidani (talk) 15:53, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
You are doing good work Bolter21 Irondome (talk) 15:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
More than good, surely. A very promising editor, and has the makings of a future admin in my book.Nishidani (talk) 16:04, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Indeed Nish. You have an excellent temperament, B21, and that is one of the secrets to survival around here ;) Simon Irondome (talk) 16:10, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
The reason why there's a lack of information is because the source of those reports are usually from the hospitals/ambulance service/security reports. They are not giving unbiased information in their reports (and let's hope it stays like that, cause Ambulance Services east the the West Bank barrier tend to be very unobjective in their reports), so even if the wounded man said "Ayrebs stoned meh bus!" they wouldn't report it. And in this incident, the polce probably didn't find anything and it's embarrasing to admit, so they don't say anything and we"ll probably never know.
By the way it wasn't much of a burden, I didn't had to do too much research because I already have most sites on my browser. Also thanks for the vocabulary advice, I recently finished English at school (And I feel like a toddler while saying it) so I"ll probably have to put more attention for grammar and vocabulary since I don't need to practice it anymore, so I always appriciate help with that. About your variant, Kibbutzniks smoking Gazan marijuana might be why Sanders care for Gaza more than other presidents and candidates.. Insteed of giving money to UNRWA, the UN should probably invest in daily weed rolls to solve the conflict, or all the conflicts.
Oh and the Israeli Army will probably kidnap me until I"ll ever think of being an admin.. Who knows? maybe one day I"ll be in that list (hopefully not).--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:25, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
And also, as someone who have been a volunteer in an ambulance service for the last three years, in Israel (don't know how it is in other countries), "lightly", "moderately", "severely" and "fatally" wounded are used in medical reports to determine how urgent is medical serivce. Someone can get his finger choped of and it would be considered "lightly wounded". Surely if he"ll lose all of his hand, it might even be a sevear injury because of blood loss, but it might also be a moderate one. You can also considered in a "light medical condition" even without being physically injured, only from the shock, as some people need medical treatment for that. Some light injuries don't even need a medical treatment and some may send you to a week at hospital (breaking a leg for example). Usually "fataly" wounded means that paramedics are conduting a CPR on the person, or that he is in a very unstable condition and he might loose his breath or heartbeat (obviously unconscious). I am telling this to you so you"ll understand that in Israeli reports, when it says "soldiers lightly hurt from smoke inhalation" usually means that they needed medical treatment, just like in this spesific incident and the source also said that they were sent to an hospital.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:38, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, I understand those distinctions. I hurt myself every other hour with smoke inhalation, and eventually will require medical treatment :) I have trouble with the word 'hurt' a and 'injured' in much reportage though this is subjective - it just wasn't in our vocabulary for abrasions, or firefighting, or even a slight graze from a knife in a game of chicken. One stuck in my foot, and, local family wisdom just suggested doing what I did, whistling the dog to lick it, a good disinfectant, like urine. The Ynet English report for the 25th May is acceptable because the two border policewomen were 'lightly injured due to a fire' when the vehicle they were in was hit by a Molotov. It is not specified how they were injured, if it were from smoke, I wouldn't have accepted it, but since I don't know, it goes in. I only challenged the report from Walla! on the 26th because the Hebrew source says 5 soldiers were lightly 'injured' by smoke inhalation from a fire started by a Molotov. While the notice, duly considered, deserves inclusion because throwing a Molotov caused property damage, I just think that it breaks parity to mention soldiers coughed a lot. I've almost always ignored registering the dozens of people hospitalized after suffocating doses of tear gas affected them. This happens every Friday most notoriously at Bil'in, Ni'lin and Kafr Qaddum, and on most days, whenever there is a demonstration. Tear gas intoxication is stressful, can cause respiratory failure, and often requires medical assistance, but I chose to leave it out, except where fatal casualties ensue a child,an old man or a woman, or where (April 18) tear-gas canisters are shot inside schools, as has happened several times recently, and caused dozen or more children to be hospitalized. As I said, if you want smoke inhalation to be included, I'll do so, but it will just mean from now on in adding every report of the use of tear-gas against crowds, even if no one is 'hurt' or 'injured'.Nishidani (talk) 18:37, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
The Walla! source actually said "hurt" (נפגעו) insteed of "injured/wounded" (נפצעו). The source didn't suggest they were injured from smoke (although some might consider burns in your Bronchuses as an injury) but were "hurt". My only assumption is that the initial report from the Ambulance service/Hospital was "in a light condition" which is a code name for "they are treated but they are ok". Maybe choosing a language such as "5 needed medical treatment" or "5 recieved medical treatment" is better, but also misinclusion is better. In my opinion, some incidents have much more weight than others not because of the number of human casualties (if there are) but by their characters. For example, if a man was hurt from a stone throwing, to me that's much less than an incident where stones are hurled at a firefighting crew or an ambulance, even if no one is injured. In 2011 there was a rocket shooting on Tel Aviv and it stopped my math lesson, this won't be in the list. But an incident where a molotov was thrown at a flameble field between a millitary base and a student residential complex, which will cause the student to be evactuated, I think this have a weight as a violent incident, becuase it is physically endangering the students. The act of throwing the molotov has a violent nature. I wouldn't care if not every glass shard that hit a driver's arm wouldn't be in the list, but arsons are serious, and this spesific one in Ofrit base is serious, even if it has no injuries. I wouldn't care adding incident of settlers making an arson, I think that violance made by individual has more weight than the violence made by sercurity forces, as the violence made by security forces are debatable. When my brother was in the army his jeep made a patrol between Salfit and Ariel and while driving a Palestinian teenager threw a molotov at their jeep. It didn't hit the jeep and they got out and chased the teen until they captured him. While capturing him he was wounded, since the soldier who captured him jumped on him and he fell on the hot and rough asphalt and the soldier who caughet him held him on the ground and the contact with the asphalt burnet the teen's hand. There was a small millitary police investigation because of a rights organization apeal and but the army did nothing because the soldier couldn't think of "Oh shit it's a sunny day so I need to be more sensitive when capturing this kid" while chasing him. So what has more weight? The molotov? or the injury from the chase? I think that the molotov has more weight because it was the "violent". If the soldier shot him while fleeing, that had more weight, because it's an illegal act, but if the kid wasn't hurt, I would still add this incident, since someone throwing a molotov at a jeep is as significant as someone hitting a jeep with a molotov. As for the incidents you brought, I think they have alot of weight, because people died. Every injury from crowd-control weapon has weight in my opinion, but if I recall correct, there was disagreement about wether the toddler was killed from smoke inhalation or not.. I would still put it in the list, due to the suspection. Someone being killed in a riot (or because of a riot) is significant.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:19, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
I can see that and appreciate the precise moral distinctions you make (thanks for the anecdotes by the way). The problem is, my advice is going against my own POV because by applying it we get far less mention of things that irritate or hurt Palestinians, which very occasionally happen also to Israelis. The material and physical damage rations of Israelis and Palestinians has been calculated as exceeding a 1 to 10 proportion. In 2014 in the Gaza conflict, one Israeli child died, 553 Palestinian children died. Hundreds of Palestinians receive first aid, and often hospitalization, each week from tear gas inhalation. Were I a one-eyed pro-Pal propaganda vehicle, I'd jump at your suggestion because it would allow me to ratchet up far more material on damage/hurt/injuries by including reporting beatings on arrests, robbery during search raids, skunk spraying of schools which stops people studying for days (as the rocket over Tel Aviv interrupted your math), etc.etc.etc. I just think it advisable to stick to a basic criterion for damage/hurt, and not go beyond what any reliable report states. The soldiers were treated for smoke inhalation, I don't think that qualifies, but if it does, you get in one incident that sets a precedent for putting in 20 Palestinian incidents of a similar kind. On the other point, ('I wouldn't care adding incident of settlers making an arson, I think that violance made by individual has more weight than the violence made by sercurity forces,')from a Palestinian point of view, which is the other side of the equation, per WP:NPOV they are not 'security forces'. They are an army cracking down on any form of protest against an occupation, or land theft, or confiscation, and are there exclusively to ensure or defend settler rights and expansion. (That happens to be why B'tselem decided to end its cooperation with the IDF this week. )So we can't make the distinction you make, since the perspectives on violence reflect different POVs, both of which must be respected. Hey, it's late, we both need to catch 40 winks.Nishidani (talk) 21:42, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
I get what you are saying. I"ll put it in my mind. For now, I still focus on incidents outside of English reports, so I don't have much to do with choosing which incident of the Palestinian side is relevent or not, but I will stick up to my opinion about actions such as arsoning a base, but probably have a more critical way of looking at stone throwing or some injuries when seeing if they fit the list or not. We"ll see, in the future, how it goes. Good night.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:49, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Ein as-Sahala at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; see step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 13:22, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Fatah

But Fatah is the moderate fraction (the Palestinian president is the presendent of Fatah), and claiming that Tel Aviv residents are settlers is a unique claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.19.119.42 (talk) 18:35, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Fatah is not a moderate faction. Fatah is moderate just like Stalin is moderate in compare to Mao. This is not a response anyway, and I don't think it really has a lot of signficance. Remember this is an encyclopedia and not a site to show "who is the real jerk", if you want, you can put it in the "Biased reporting" section.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:41, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
I didn't wish to present "who's a jerk" attitude, but rather to report the official stance of the president party. I'm leaving it to you to choose if it should or should not reported (what Fatah says)37.19.119.42 (talk) 18:44, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
I know you didn't. I also sometimes don't think I am not doing things and other people tell me a do them. In my eyes, it is a petty thing. If you want to re-add it, I have no problem, but I"ll re-check the reliability of the report. I never heard of that "Elder of Zion" site and I don't put a lot of trust in websites that say "pro-Israel" just as I don't put trust in websites that say "pro-Palestinian" or anti-Israeli". If you feel like this is a major thing, add it to Biased reporting or the Palestinian response, where you think it needs to be. If you put it in "Palestinian rections", put it within the Fatah line, I don't think it requires a line of it's own.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:49, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
ok , Thank you 18:53, 9 June 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.19.119.42 (talk)
No problem, and always remember to put "~~~~" every time you write a comment. It's a key thing for earning the trust of some editors here, or should I say, not loosing the trust.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:55, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Elder of Ziyon is quite a reliable blog. Although as a blog, strictly "he" is not a R/S. He is POV, but then again what media source isn't, unless they are lying. It is just a question of degree. Simon Irondome (talk) 18:58, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
I choose Elder of Ziyon because it was the only secondary source to report that Fatah statement (for me the original link is no more present).37.19.119.42 (talk) 19:09, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
If I may barge in, signing your comments is not about trust. Even if you don't sign a comment a bot will sign it for you, and even if you remove the signature - other can always see in the history who made a certain comment. It is a matter of continence and politeness - to help others easily see who wrote what. “WarKosign” 19:00, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Nissan Slomiansky

Are you sure that a bill which was a direct result for the event is not a "response" ? It is a major event as it is a legalization change (new law might pass) . in http://www.inn.co.il/News/News.aspx/323803 they say "הצעת החוק נולדה בעקבות סרטונים רבים שפורסמו ביממה האחרונה ובהם תיעוד הפיגוע הרצחני שאירע אמש (רביעי) במתחם "שרונה" בתל אביב." which is clearly refernces the event.37.19.119.42 (talk) 18:57, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

His statement is very insignificant. I am going to prepare a list of relevent responses, with a limitation to one of each political party in Israel, with emphasis on the Arab parties. If we added every response to this article we would have a Old Testement long article. Currently the article sufferes from lack of information on the important matter: the attack it self. If you tell ten Jews about a terrorist attack, you"ll have 15 responses.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:02, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
And I am not a big fan of Channel 20, we have enough from ynet, Haaretz and The Times of Israel for now.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:02, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Just to clear something up, the notable thing in that is that he claimed to propose a bill (which need to pass three agreements before becoming a law), not that he had a something notable to say37.19.119.42 (talk) 19:07, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
I feel like I am disapointing you repeatedly, but I don't think it is significant. If you think (and this time you have a legitimate reliable source) add it to the "Aftermath" section I"ll create in the following moments.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:10, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Hamula vs family

The المخامرة is a hamula consisting of four families, I think it is wrong to address them just as a family and not by the common term hamula (or Khamula). The hamula allegedly came from s Jewish tribe and was arabized during the arab conquest.

I think the correct spelling should be kh and not k (like with Khartoum (الخرطوم al-Kharṭūm ) and not hartum)37.19.119.42 (talk) 21:18, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

The best name is either clan or extended family, as no one have yet to make an article about Hamulas and I don't expect the avarage reader to know what's a hamula. And from what I"ve seen, it's usually written with an 'h'.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:26, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
I have added a small portion about the subject, but hamula is not extended family nor its a clan it is something in between ( example and another ) 37.19.116.84 (talk) 10:49, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

1RR

There seems to be some leniency for reverts on fast moving articles, but you've gone far past that point. I cannot edit that article for 24hours or I would be blocked and the same was true for you awhile ago, can you please undo your last revert? Sepsis II (talk) 18:28, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

What had I reverted exactly?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:35, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
The second time you reverted my work today, where you rewrote my edit. There is no doubt that it is a revert, GHcool tried arguing otherwise last week and he got blocked after I let him know and gave him time to fix his error. Sepsis II (talk) 19:02, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
So editing a recent expansion is a revert?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:09, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
What constitutes a revert is up for debate. The people who harp on the details of it are generally assholes though. That's why I've never filed an RR violation report even though I've encountered many.--Monochrome_Monitor 21:16, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Please don't edit my talk page;

I only care to comment on content at specific articles. Sepsis II (talk) 01:24, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

@Spesis II: Then please don't comment to me again in any page. I don't know how long I've seen you here, maybe two months or maybe more, but I don't remember a time when you made a comment that actuallly helped the discussion and I remember several times when your comments did the opposite. Maybe I/P is not for you. Lacking the temper of Debresser, I dont think it's worth spending time asking admins to check your behavior. I genuinely tried to be nice and reasonable but that doesn't seem to work.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 01:30, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Musheirifa Musmus Salim, Ma'ale Iron Zalafa, Ma'ale Iron

Hello! Your submission of Musheirifa Musmus Salim, Ma'ale Iron Zalafa, Ma'ale Iron at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 22:30, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Musmus

On 22 June 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Musmus, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Salem (pictured), Musmus, Zalafa, and Musheirifa are four of the Arab villages making up the Israel local council of Ma'ale Iron? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Musmus), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Salem, Ma'ale Iron

On 22 June 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Salem, Ma'ale Iron, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Salem (pictured), Musmus, Zalafa, and Musheirifa are four of the Arab villages making up the Israel local council of Ma'ale Iron? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Salem, Ma'ale Iron), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Zalafa

On 22 June 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Zalafa, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Salem (pictured), Musmus, Zalafa, and Musheirifa are four of the Arab villages making up the Israel local council of Ma'ale Iron? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Zalafa), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 23 June

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:24, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Ein as-Sahala

Hello! Your submission of Ein as-Sahala at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 04:43, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

"Stepped up visits" on I-P conflict 2015-present

Hi, I'm curious as to how your description for reverting my edit actually matches my edit of the original page. The wording "stepped-up visits by religious Jews" doesn't really get to the core of what's going on all that clearly - as per your description or the Temple Mount entry restrictions page I hyperlinked to, Jews are allowed to visit the Temple Mount, so it doesn't really clarify matters to describe the behaviour as "stepped-up visits". What the organisations listed on the restrictions page were and are trying to do is to visit the Temple Mount to pray. I thought my wording was good for introducing the restrictions page for those who wanted to know more about the status quo, but if you can think of a better wording, please suggest it. The current one is an inadequate description. TrickyH (talk) 21:51, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

I"ll be completely honest with you, I slep four hours (and awake for over 12) and right now working on a larger edit, so I am not too concentrated. Anyway, I think that sentence in the article was a bit ambigues and your edit made it even more ambigues. Muslims does not oppose Jews praying in the temple, they oppose Jews entering the temple. This is not a conflict about the laws but a religious friction in a shithole somewhere in wonderland (Israelstine), so as far as it seems, writing that this is about the "restrictions" changes the context of the sentence and make it ambigues, at least to me, since as far as I remember, most of the fanatics who usually go to the temple mount and stone policemen don't really care about the restrictions and just want the kafirs out of their holy shrine.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:56, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
Also in the edit summery I meant to say that the fanactis "don't give a fuck" about the restrictions but I guess you understood that.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:10, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
Well, I guess this is a demonstration of the effects of fatigue! What you're saying isn't quite right for me. Asides from lumping these two protest groups under the umbrellas of all Muslims, if you read the sources supporting the argument, you can notice that these protests aren't directed against tourists, regardless of religion (a fact I observed myself in November). So the current wording is, as I've said, inadequate.
Reading from the first reference: "A small group of religious Jews have for years sought to pray at the site" ... "the Temple Institute, a group based in Israel that calls for reinstating the third Jewish temple and organizes tours of the Temple Mount." So (as is reflected elsewhere in this article, and the one about restrictions), the clashes aren't between "Muslims" hating "kafirs", but the religious groups who, on the Muslim side, aim to defend the compound, and on the Jewish, have a goal of prayer and rebuilding the Temple at the site. The "restriction" page goes into a lot of this and mentions all the groups that are involved, so I thought it would be best to link it at that point and kick the debate along down there.
If we can't come up with a better wording between us, I think it's about the point to take this to the talk page.TrickyH (talk) 08:06, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
'Muslims do(es) not oppose Jews praying in the temple, they oppose Jews entering the temple.'
Actually 'they' do oppose prayer, not in the temple, whose precise location is unknown. Historically, they opposed prayer at the Western Wall in the Mandate - aggravated by the spread of posters in Jerusalem showing Herzl standing over the whole mount, which suggested to them that behind pressures to change the Ottoman status quo regarding the Herodian wall, there was a larger plan. The sensible arrangements worked out after 1867, with halakhic backing - only a high priest should pray there, are being challenged. All of these mounting pressures by Yehuda Glick et al., apart from the attempts to bomb the mosques, have to be read against the strong Muslim awareness of the past. This is all irrational, but their thesis is, give an inch, and they take an arm. No one stops anyone in silent prayer, Christian or Jew: on my last visit, one waqf guard thought that my behavior was suspicious - I split (as usual) from the group and stood at a distance quietly observing things. He approached me, and asked me, not if I was praying, but whether I had can of beer in my pocket (it was water).Nishidani (talk) 09:52, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Just an aside, but if one likes to look out for curiosities, examine the shoes of the religious who visit the site. If they are leather, they are disobeying one of the three conditions that are obligatory before a Jew 'ascends'.Nishidani (talk) 10:04, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Cmon Nish,you know meant "they don't only oppose the praying, the oppose entrance". Anyway I think I'll drop out and let you de whatever you want. Your edit seemed wierd so I reverted it.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:02, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Don't drop out, son. Try to get a few more hours of sleep, unless you're partying, before editing. Some edits require months to get right, and the best thing when you see something problematical, is to make a note of it, and whenever you find info on it, note it down until you are confident the change will stick. I've several hundreds of these on important articles (I saw on some article the other days that Muslim persecution of Christian pilgrims 'instigated' the Crusades, which is pure folly and WP:OR. I've left it there, and even forgotten exactly on what page. I'll get round to it.) I just wanted to point out that collective nouns 'Muslims'/'Jews', whoever, never have sense when a general attitude or behavior is associated with them. It's true that Dayan's intelligent edict in 1976 was officially opposed by many Muslims there, but any Jew or kaffir like myself can exercise the right to enter and admire the place, and when I've spoken about it to Muslim friends, in Palestine or elsewhere they don't feel outrage. To the contrary.Nishidani (talk) 12:08, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Because facts matter, I want to point out that it is decidely untrue to state, as Nishdani does here, that "any Jew or kaffir... can exercise the right to enter and admire the place". Entrance is, in fact, tightly restricted, especially for Jews. Prayer, of course, is forbidden to non-Muslims. But, more to the point, there is no "right" for non-Muslims to enter Al Aqsa or the Dome of the Rock - in fact, non-Muslims are prevented form getting close to the Dome of the Rock. Period. Not on religious grounds - 20 years ago non-Muslims freely entered the Dome of the Rock. This is not comparable to the inner precincts of certain Hindu temples, which have been off-limits to non Brahmins from time immemorial. There is no traditional prohibition, traditionally non-Muslims were permitted ot enter these buildings, an, of course, to ascent to the Mount. The restrictions on the visits of non-Muslims are a recent political move. Non-Muslim ascent to the platform is currently permitted, but Nishdan's "right to enter" the Dome or Al-Aqsa (the magnificent buildings that you go ot the Jerusalem to see) exists only in his own mind.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:44, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
It isn't. I said right of ingress onto the Haram al-Sharif. The waqf does not control the ethnicity of visitors. Your ethnicity is not controlled at the gates except if you are a suspected Palestinian, and that is done exclusively by Israeli 'security' officers. And it is quite just that non Muslims are forbidden to enter sacred Muslim structures. It's theirs, no one else's. You are dead wrong that traditional prohibitions did not exist before recent times. Down at least to 1822, when Robert Richardson was allowed to after curing the local Ottoman dignitary of his eye complaint, no European had seen the Haram. And every religion dictates, on its property, what the rules are. You can't get into the Kōtaijingű (皇大神宮) at Ise, and no one should complain. The Talmud Avodah Zara 17a forbids Jews to enter a Christian church. I don't know of any such ruling re visiting mosques, but since the rule in visiting synagogues is that one must respect its usages,(and not recite the Pater Noster) there, the same goes the other way round. Nishidani (talk) 15:20, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Ein as-Sahla

On 5 July 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Ein as-Sahla, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Ein as-Sahla was established as a daughter village of Barta'a in the 19th century? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Ein as-Sahla), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:35, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Mishma ha-Emek error

Hi, Mishma ha-Emek was not close to Ghuwayr Abu Shusha. That is quite some distance away at 197/251. Mishma ha-Emek was at 164/224. See this map for the surroundings ca. 1940. The nearby Arab village was Al-Ghubayya al-Tahta. I'll leave it for you to fix since I can't see your source. Cheers. Zerotalk 07:07, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Thnaks! It was actually Abu Shusha, Haifa and not Ghuwayr Abu Shusha.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:53, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Population template usage

Hello Bolter. I see you've been adding the population template to some articles, but not properly as (a) you are adding the 2014 population figure directly (i.e. in text) and are also not updating the other parts of the article (usually in the introduction).

When you add it, please do it like this: 

| popyear = {{Israel populations|Year}}
| population = {{Israel populations|Ramat Hashofet}}
| population_footnotes={{Israel populations|reference}}

not like this: 

| popyear = {{Israel populations|Year}}
| population = 1,019
| population_footnotes={{Israel populations|reference}}

You can also use the template in the sentence in the intro, e.g.: 

In {{Israel populations|Year}} it had a population of {{Israel populations|Ramat Hashofet}}.

If you want to see how to write the placename in the template code, check out the full list here. The whole point of the template is that it updates the population figure automatically. If you enter the actual population figure for 2014 in the text, it means updating it manually every time. Cheers, Number 57 15:10, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

I did it late at night when listening to loops of this (which is usually my excuse for fucking up), so I only realised I am adding the actual number after I did it with some 15 places, and it's becuase sometimes I insert the name and it doesn't work (I try both the name in the source and the name of the article and still some of them doesn't work). But thanks for the notice.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:58, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
If it doesn't work, let me know. They should all work (I haven't found one that doesn't yet). Cheers, Number 57 17:02, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Ok. Also if you are the one who created the template, you might as well try to extract the height above sea level and maybe even sub-district and natural region which are also listed in the excel file. Here's a map made by Ynhockay which include both subdistricts and natural region.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:06, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
The thing is that they don't need to be changed every year – it only needs to be entered once and then it's done. The populations are updated every year by the CBS and the template is designed so that we only have to update one page (the template) rather than 1,200 articles. Number 57 17:16, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
So don't feed my lazyness :D--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:19, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Canvassing

Hi, You should stop notifying people of AFD'es. It looks to outsiders like you are notifying people who you think would agree with you. Whether that is your attempt is irrelevant, that is why we have no canvassing policies. Once you notify the project, which I did, that should be good enough. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:57, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

I am notifying people I know. I notifyed you and you commented exactly what I expected. I notifyed WarKosign and I am not sure what would be his response and I also notifyed E.M Gregory, which would probably answer like you. This is not canvasing, this is the general demographics of the Israeli-Palestinian related Wikipedians and this is why Palestine is a State in the Middle East dispite the nonsense of it. If you think there are people who should be notifyed, tell them.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:04, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
I also came here to caution you against canvassing. Your message, given you overt biases and the nature of our previous interactions, was just plain creepy. Then I got here and found your badly misspelled response to Sir Joseph. I strongly advise you to take a deep breath, and not let your emotions master your actions.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:17, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
Bolter, that is why I notified the projects. You don't run the risk of being assumed as a canvasser. When you create an AFD you notify the page creator but anything more than that is subjective and in this area it's best to just use DELSORT and notify the projects. Sir Joseph (talk) 19:19, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Its not canvassing, but there isnt much of a point in doing it to be honest. Canvassing is meant to influence the outcome, and you can hardly be thought to be doing that by asking people you know are going to argue against your nomination. There isnt a point in doing it because people are going to find these things anyway, through the deletion sorting list, or the wikiprojects, or whatever. Best to not either ping individual editors or post to their talk page. And just a tip, try to ignore some of the comments that have nothing to do with the article. Most of the admins will see them for what they are, and generally know that those who need to get personal in their arguments on such trivial things as deletion of wikipedia pages dont usually have the strongest arguments to make or the aptitude to do so. nableezy - 19:52, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Your revert

Concerning your revert, i would like you opinion of this development, concerning the investigation of the June 2016 Tel Aviv shooting.GreyShark (dibra) 18:05, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I am not a big fan of i24 News but I"ve already extracted all the information Ynet offered about the investigation. Sadly the three main Israeli sources (Ynet, Haaretz and the Times of Israel) all somewhat contradicting each other and I was lazy enough to not try and extract the information from the articles of TOI and Haaretz on that matter. Anyway, this incident is ISIS inspired just like it is Hamas inspiried and generally part of the current phase of violence.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:21, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
May I butt in? It could be ISIS inspired, but the text doesn't quite say that:

A statement released by the Shin Bet meanwhile, said that Mahmoud Mahamrah became an Islamic State supporter while studying in Jordan before he returned to Yatta in January 2016.Neither of the two were formally recruited or received training or assistance from the IS group, a statement by the Shin Bet said.

This is not, apparently, in the indictment, but sourced to the interpretation given by the Shin Bet. It claims one of the two came round to 'supporting' ISIS, but states that there is, to date, no evidence either were recruited or trained or assisted by ISIS. Support in this context says at most that Mahmoud Mahamrah, according to Shin Bet, backed (was a fan of) the ISIS phenomenon in terms of his outlook, without being a part of it. 'Isis' inspired is ambiguous, meaning either ISIS egged them on, or what ISIS does gave one of them the idea. Nishidani (talk) 19:08, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Your AE action against Khazen48

Hi, Just letting you know that you forgot to notify Khazen48 about the AE action and that is one of the requirements of the AE.Sir Joseph (talk) 15:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Oh, thanks.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 15:57, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Barnstar

The Israeli Barnstar of National Merit
I noticed that you have been improving articles about numerous Israeli localities. You are doing great work! Take this Barnstar of National Merit as a token of appreciation. —Ynhockey (Talk) 19:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Coverage confers notability

Bolter, would you be willing to reconsider that AFD, in the light of this: [1] [[Los Angeles Times] article?E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:36, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

This article straigntens my opinion on merging this article with another, but I"ll now suggest to merge it with information I will soon add to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict (2015–present).--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:41, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Stav

I held off from doing ce's originally, because it might give the impression of a pernickety somewhat snide intrusiveness, or bossy pedantic put-down. I changed my mind after I saw 3 hostile comments regarding this. If you don't mind, I'll make it a routine, a sort of informal English lesson (no cost!) whenever I see you editing around articles I've bookmarked, if needed. Generally, I'm very much impressed by the quality of your English as a young non-native speaker, and with diffs, you can probably pick up after a while a few hints about recurrent minor problems of style, grammar and idiomatic use. If you don't reply, and you don't need to, I'll take silence as a go-ahead. It's only a few seconds of work for me, so no problem. Cheers.Nishidani (talk) 21:44, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

First of all, I don't have problem with ce, if you"ll ask me, that's your decision. I would do the same if I could (although I recall not correcting Hebrew learners, because it felt like I am ruining a genuine discussion). Just, you don't have to make copy edits to every comment I make (except for edits in actual articles), because it will make me care less about my English. So try to focus on mispellings and extreme mistakes.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:50, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Okay-Nishidani (talk) 22:20, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Also one thing, I prefer you"ll call me "bolter" (opposite to Irondome), in reality no one calls me Stav except for my family and teachers. (nicknames variate between "steve" and "dick")--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:11, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

The name of The Fence

Hi, Just for fun, and being a rather stubborn sort of person, I'll question your comment about "security fence" being the official name. I'll concede first of all that "security fence" is the preferred name used on government websites now, but that only tells us what the public relations advisors advised. For the official name we need to look at official documents. For example this 2004 High Court ruling says "separation fence". In this High Court ruling later in that same year we find that one of the respondents in that case was the "Separation Fence Authority" (מינהלת גדר ההפרדה — always feel free to correct my Hebrew) so we know with 100% certainly that there was an official body with that name, at least in 2004. The name "separation fence" is used throughout that ruling, so that is what the judges thought its official name was then. I can also find scattered use of "security fence" in HCJ rulings, but I didn't find a definitive document regarding the official name in 2016. Probably you will have more luck. The name which is used in IDF Ordinances would be one place to look. Cheers. Zerotalk 02:18, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

The name of that authority is "Seam Zone Authority" and "Seam Zone" or "Seam Line" is used by IDF (unless adresing the public). Secondly, HCJ wording should not be regarded as official and "separation fence" is not a controversial name in Israel.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 05:57, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 22

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Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. KamelTebaast 18:27, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Warning

Per WP:IUC, your edit here is an unfounded accusation.

Please strike out the following line:

"[He is obviously using socks, demonstrated in this spesific discussion]"

Also, apologize to me in the same thread, and I will not report you. KamelTebaast 05:53, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

I will [not] apologize to a suspected sockmaster. You should thank me for not opening an investigation against you, simply because I didn't care enough to do it. Off with your belligerence.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:38, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
I filed for dispute resolution here. KamelTebaast 17:46, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
You should open in in Aministratiors Noticeboard.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:25, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Corrected my earlier comment in squared brackets.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:51, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Another Warning

Stop icon

Please be warned that your edit history with me, specifically this, among others, constitutes WP:WIKIHOUNDING. In good faith, I am not reporting you now to WP:AE. Anymore and I will. KamelTebaast 22:32, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Report me. I don't give a shit. The is the second time you come to me with something I did a week ago. You are on a highway to being out of this site.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:39, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Apropos nothing in particular, wiki has severals types of editor. On the bottom rung are the shortlifers, which is a euphemism for shitstirrers. When you encounter one, just ignore. They self-destruct.Nishidani (talk) 18:55, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
That's one of my problems, I can't ignore.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:57, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
That's a virtue, mostly, and a rare one, that gets one in trouble in life. Wikipedia is not life but a passing attraction/distraction. I've been dealing with a problematical but productive editor for some time: I saw a hoopoe today, and he dropped off my radar. I've seen a lot of good editors driven off by the usual bunch of avatars who single them out and go for them. Here's a new word 'gudgeon', a fish that rises to the bait. Don't swallow the bait(ing).Nishidani (talk) 19:02, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Ignore it B. Simon. Irondome (talk) 19:30, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Abu Shusha, Haifa has been nominated for Did You Know

Hello, Bolter21. Abu Shusha, Haifa, an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you knowDYK comment symbol. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 12:01, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 2

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DYK for Abu Shusha, Haifa

On 3 August 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Abu Shusha, Haifa, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the depopulated Palestinian village of Abu Shusha in Haifa has been suggested as the location of the Roman town of Gaba Hippeon, founded in 61 BCE? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Abu Shusha, Haifa. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Abu Shusha, Haifa), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 13:06, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Yokneam Moshava at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; see step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 20:21, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Populations

Hello Bolter. Thanks for adding the population template to articles, but when you do, could you also do the following:

  • Add a references section if there isn't one.
  • Remove the unreferenced tag if there is one.
  • Remove the "industry =" field from the infobox (it was removed years ago)
  • Replace "region =" with "district = center/north/south/haifa/jerusalem/js/ta
  • Add Category:XXXX establishments in Israel/Mandatory Palestine if not already present.

I've seen a few cases where you've added the template, but there is no references section – e.g. here and here. The edit in the latter suggests you are blanket copy/pasting the sentence in the introduction, but it doesn't always appear in that format, so you left the latter in a bit of a mess. Just a word of caution to be a bit more careful. Cheers, Number 57 12:43, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Got it.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 14:55, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Also, the references section has to come before the External links one. Cheers, Number 57 21:35, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
Got this one as well--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:36, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 10

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WP:CIVIL

Bolter, you are not new to Wikipedia, so you better read WP:CIVIL, in light of your edit summary here. You don't want to get to Administrator's noticeboard for bad language, right?GreyShark (dibra) 21:17, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 16 August

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Reference errors on 17 August

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Photo licensing

Replying here to your email. I prefer to correspond in talk pages, unless the matter is confidential. commons:Commons:Licensing gives details on the copyright policy for images at the Commons. commons:Commons:Reusing content outside Wikimedia states that none of our licenses require that the re-user obtain permission from the copyright holder before using the image. Once the image is out there on the Internet, it's possible for people to copy it without ever visiting Wikipedia or viewing a request that permission be obtained. Such requests are unenforceable for these reasons. There's a noticeboard for copyright questions at the Commons at commons:Commons:Village pump/Copyright where you might be able to obtain more information. — Diannaa (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I know I can't really enforce it, but in the past, an educational institution used one of my maps and gave me credit, so I assume they"ve read the copyrights notice, so asking permission for usage might at least prevent serious institutions from using my maps. I"ll check the links when i"ll finish the works. Thanks.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:23, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
I know I've seen some folks on Commons request that people obtain permission for re-use of the photos, and templated them as such. I was unable to locate any templates on this wiki or at Commons to do this though, so they must have been handmade templates. Commons admins will know more about this topic. — Diannaa (talk) 21:40, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Alright.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:42, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Hebrew

Hi, Please check my crappy translation at Talk:Rachel's Tomb (second last section). Probably there are OCR errors in the Hebrew text too, because this came off microfilm. Feel free to edit my text if you like Thanks. Zerotalk 14:31, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

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Mishmar HaEmek

Hi, This sentence is not meaningful: "The Jezreel Valley was placed at the top of the Jewish National Fund (JNF) during the time of the Fourth Aliyah (1924–1928)." Do you mean that the Jezreel Valley was the JNF's top priority? If so, I suggest something like "During the time of the Fourth Aliyah (1924–1928), settlement of the Jezreel Valley was the top priority of the Jewish National Fund (JNF)." Zerotalk 00:46, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

In the Israeli education system, English is divided into three levels: three, four and five points. Each point represents the weight of the material you learn. I did five points, so it means I made harder tests and also learned 6 English literature pieces. There was also an option for "seven points" which is an additional two points (i.e. two tests) for translating English to Hebrew, but my school is shit, so there you have it, a valley is placed in the top of an organization.
Anyway, yes, this is what I meant, I just literally translated the Hebrew words in my mind.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:08, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Population updater

Going through the ones marked as "done", I noticed that many of the West Bank settlements haven't had it added – I'm guessing because they have the 2015 figures in already? I think we should still be adding the updater to these articles, as although it will temporarily mean it being one year behind, the official 2015 figures are due out anytime now and the whole template will be updated. If they don't get it added, next year they won't be updated when the 2016 figures are released. And thanks for your help with this – we're over halfway there now! Cheers, Number 57 12:59, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Warning

Thanks for adding sources to the population figures in the Mizrahi Jews article. Please be aware that the number you added for the population in Israel is not in the source, and is therefore original research. Your reason for undoing my revert ("restoring sourced information") is therefore not valid, and I repeat: this is not in the source! you are warned to refrain from original research and edit waring. Especially since you admitted right away that you ignored BRD. Debresser (talk) 20:38, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I explained that it is in the source. The article states country of origin.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:42, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
How is that not original research? And how do you decide which countries to include? Debresser (talk) 20:49, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Middle East and North Africa?...--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:31, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
I would agree, but again, isn't that the definition of original research? And did you notice that the stats don't deal "mixed" marriages? In short, there are too many problems involved in using this source. Debresser (talk) 09:06, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Warning

You violated the one-revert-a-day rule on Gaza Strip. Mewulwe (talk) 21:46, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

I already forgot about it. You violated WP:BRD anyway.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:03, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
Which is actually quite stupid. Cause according to WP:BRD, when someone reverts you, you are the one who is supposed to start the discussion and not the one who reverts you. How convinient for you that there's a 1RR here. I need to bring this to the Arbitration Committee, that users can violate BRD with 1RR. Anyway, if you don't want to self-revert, under WP:BRD, I will revert you 24 hours from now and then you"ll start the discussion you want.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:06, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
One can hardly "violate" WP:BRD since it is an essay and not a policy. And if so, you would have violated it, as it says: "When reverting, be specific about your reasons in the edit summary" which you weren't. And I did start a discussion on the talk page about the main issue. Mewulwe (talk) 22:20, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
It is an essay, but it is also a way of life.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:22, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
Just to let you know , Mewulwe (talk) reported you at Arbitration Enforcement, but didn't bother to notify you as required. Epson Salts (talk) 01:00, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
Ugh, I hate when people say you can't violate BRD. You can't violate WP:AGF or WP:JERK either. It's just common wikipedia (and human) etiquite. Wikipedia has few rules that are truly enshrined in law, yet these are wielded by the wikilawyers as a proverbial gavel. It's funny how the aforementioned wikilawyers consistently look over well-meaning editing guidelines and yet stretch such concepts as WP:SYNTH beyond sanity.--Monochrome_Monitor 01:31, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
Just to but in. I agree that WP:BRD can be violated, since it is one of the principles of community editing. Debresser (talk) 17:12, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Heh

We both got reported today!--Monochrome_Monitor 00:57, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

I got reported twice in three days, which means I need to check myself more, but after all, there is not much I can do. I didn't chose thug life, they chose me.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 01:10, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
You are one cool kid. :P --Monochrome_Monitor 01:32, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
I feel like people should be penalized if their arbitration claim is rejected. That way they aren't harassing the people with their bullshit.--Monochrome_Monitor 01:44, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
You seem a bit agitated at the moument. I"ll suggest closing the computer and go to a neighborhood in your town you"ve never been in, or just go sit in a cafeshop or something. As for the the penalizing people, I don't think it is that neccessariy. I hate when people accuse me, probably more than you, but one of my qualities is that I forget very fast. Nishidani, Zero0000, Malik Shebazz and others were people I had many bitter arguments with, just like the one you are having with Huldra (and I think I had one with Huldra) and now I generally see them all positivly. Even that Kamel Tebaat guy, whom I didn't like in his first days, now I do not resent him whatsoever, and when I see his username, I see it positivly. The point is, I forget very fast, and maybe apart from two spesific editors, I have no resent to any person I had a bitter argument with in the past. I hope you could find yourself forgeting your arguments with other people, and even find yourself collaberating with them. Anyway, it is 5AM right now and I really need to get some sleep, so what I wrote might look like I am drunk.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 02:20, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Hehe a cafeshop. :P I remember everyone who I've argued with, but I don't take that as grounds to be an ass. For an example There's an arbitration request right now against someone who reported me three years ago, but I'm not going to add a comment bitching about him. (like someone i don't need to name on my report) When people are kind the disparity in our opinions becomes unimportant.--Monochrome_Monitor 02:08, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

State of Palestine / Palestinian Authority

Hello Bolter21. Thanks for your comments. What is now called the State of Palestine has basically taken over from the Palestinian Authority and I think a very logical claim can be made that their institutions are regarded as the same. How would you explain and justify the (territorial) dichotomy between them? Gerard von Hebel (talk) 01:03, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Nope.
The State of Palestine is a "state" which was declared in 1988 as a goverment in exile by the PLO. It's legislative body is the Palestinian National Council and it has a different office for President than the PA's one President of the State of Palestine. Mahmoud Abbas assumed his role as the President of the Palestinian Authority via elections on 15 January 2005, while he was appointed by the Palestinian Central Council to be the president of the State of Palestine on May 2005.
The Palestinian Authority is a "nationa authority" which was established through an agreement between Israel and the PLO in 1994. It has a separate legislative body: Palestinian Legislative Council, it has a different office for presidency, it has elections and ministries and it is still here. There is now a dispute about local elections for the Palestinian Authority.
Below is a rant, cause it's 4:30AM in the morning. You don't have to read it, I just didn't feel like deleting it. I didn't even double-check for typos.

Cheers.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 01:39, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Rant. 🔯 Sir Joseph 🍸(talk) 18:52, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
Why isn't German the global language?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:14, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
Because the US won the war. :) 🔯 Sir Joseph 🍸(talk) 19:16, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
Half of the Americans are Germany anyway--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:17, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Lol, "are germany". You're right though. Hamburgers and hotdogs are both German. But there's more English/Scottish/Irish here than anyone. Also yes, other wikipedias do copy the English one. It's even funnier when they copy the english wikipedia for articles about their own country.--Monochrome_Monitor 02:33, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

The latter happens in the Hebrew Wikipedia all the time.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 10:35, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Dude!

I'm trying to make sense of this revert here.

The description on the edit you reverted clearly referenced a talk page discussion. Did you read it before you made your edit?

You seemingly ignored WP:ONUS, which requires consensus BEFORE an item is included in the article. Do you think that onus doesn't apply in this case? If so why?

You referenced WP:BIASED and WP:BRD in your comment. I'd welcome clarification on that. WP:BIASED doesn't apply to the fact that this item has no secondary source. And I don't understand your point with respect to BRD.

Most importantly --- if you believe that Wikipedia policies would allow this source to be included, please take it up on the talk page. There's an active discussion on the matter taking place right now. PPX (talk) 17:18, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 22

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DYK nomination of Yokneam Moshava

Hello! Your submission of Yokneam Moshava at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 15:30, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Please see new note on your DYK nomination. Yoninah (talk) 19:35, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
Please perform a QPQ by reviewing a DYK nomination by another user. See my note on your nomination. Thanks. SSTflyer 10:23, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Yokneam Moshava

On 7 October 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Yokneam Moshava, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in 2013 the mayor of Yokneam Illit called for the rural village of Yokneam Moshava to be annexed to his city because it was blocking the city's ability to expand? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Yokneam Moshava. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Yokneam Moshava), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 00:01, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Asian 10,000 Challenge invite

Hi. The Wikipedia:WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge and Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like South East Asia, Japan/China or India etc, much like Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. At some stage we hope to run some contests to benefit Asian content, a destubathon perhaps, aimed at reducing the stub count would be a good place to start, based on the current Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon which has produced near 200 articles in just three days. If you would like to see this happening for Asia, and see potential in this attracting more interest and editors for the country/countries you work on please sign up and being contributing to the challenge! This is a way we can target every country of Asia, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant! Thank you. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 01:22, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

pictures?

May I ask a favour from you? I´m looking at the Hebrew pages of some of the -48-villages, and it looks as if many of them have pictures just uploaded to Hebrew Wikipedia (and not commons). Looking at the licenses, it looks (??) as if they could be uploaded to commons. I am thinking of the pictures like here, here, and here. Could you please check the Hebrew licenses, and see if they can be uploaded to commons? (Even better: if yes: upload them there..) Huldra (talk) 22:05, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Two of these maps already exist in commons: wahad, tnein. The third is not in commons but if you don't mind, I"ll check and upload it tommrow, cause I am kind of in a middle of something.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:37, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Ok, but there are several pictures on each of those pages, some are on commons, but pictures like, eg.this, this, and this are not, (And there is no big hurry...) Huldra (talk) 23:05, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Holy shit!!!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!! YAY!!!!! Kol Hakavod!!! You're of the age of majority!!!! When the hell did that happen?!!?!? This means I'm only one year older than you! --Monochrome_Monitor 20:58, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks hehe. It happend about two weeks ago. No longer in school if that's what you thought.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:03, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Oh, you graduated! When will the IDF come knockin on your door? Israel is funny that way, military before college. Post a picture with a Tavor! Those things are sexy.--Monochrome_Monitor 02:42, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Hey! Listen!

Have you played that game?... anyway I'm wondering what you think about my recent edits to jerusalem. I'm not trying to canvas you, I'm just trying to decide whether it's worth pursuing considering the fact that the article will never be sane and I'm probably getting into edit war territory. (consider "the selectivity required to summarize some 5,000 years of inhabited history is often influenced by ideological bias or background. The periods of Greek sovereignty in the city's history are important to Greek nationalists, who claim the right to the city based on descent from Ancient Greece, of which Athens was the capital. In contrast, Turkish nationalists claim the right to the city based on descent from the Ottoman Empire, which ruled the city until recent times.") That would never happen though since only the jews' capital is controversial. Crazy fucks.--Monochrome_Monitor 04:05, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

What game?... And I didn't see anything special with those edits to be honest.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 12:12, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
By the way, Happy New Year!--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:48, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
Well do you see anything special about this edit?[2] (Nishidani will revert it for sentimental reasons) שנה טובה ומתוקה! --Monochrome_Monitor 08:24, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
I agree with the edit and the principal, but is is obvious that a revert and a long discussion will follow.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 09:18, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
Lol I was right! About who would revert it I mean.--Monochrome_Monitor 19:27, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
I'm not a sentimentalist. I'm a realist. I read Anthony D. Smith's The Ethnic Origin of Nations before either of you were born, and even discussed this issue with him. He classifies Palestinians as an ethnic group without a political nation. I don't have a conflict of interest here. I've pointed out at great length on the talk page the fundamental flaws in the opening definition of Jews, with its insistence of a direct ethnic tie of descent from Israelites, etc.etc.etc. but I have the courtesy of not touching that page. Many editors who blindly support that WP:SYNTH travesty are unusually focused on how Palestinians are to be defined (not as they define themselves) by refusing to allow any right to be defined in similar terms as Jews in Israel, the state that is their adversary, are defined, i.e. as an ethnonational group, and it doesn not look like an example of editorial neutrality. I commend Bolter on this. He argued with vigour on the talk page, but hasn't tried to push his view onto the article. That shows delicacy. I wish more editors had at least a tingling of discomfort about charging in to define them. And writing, as above, as if this were just a game, is distasteful. Nishidani (talk) 20:12, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
but I have the courtesy of not touching that page: [3]. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 23:19, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
Yes, quite correct. I know you are the world's leading authority on diffs from my 49,000 contributions to Wikipedia,-and that you keep asserting there's evidence there I'm an antisemite - and I stand corrected. I have contributed frenetically over 8 and a half years precisely 0.21% of edits to that page, the serious ones all being mechanically reverted. I did so while using the talk page to the extent of contributing 3.36% of its content, to try and reason over why that specific definition breaks all wiki rules, otherwise rigorously applied to Palestinian definitions. Now could we drop these opportunities to disrupt a conversation and score points? Nishidani (talk) 16:45, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
All you had to do is not pretend to be better than the people you disagree with. I know that's difficult for you, but try to resist the urge and then I won't have to prove you wrong. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 17:10, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
I suppose, I may be wrong, that you invariably use personal sneering in my regard because you know in principle I won't report it. In any case, please stop. It's boring.Nishidani (talk) 17:15, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
That's ridiculous, you've reported me more than once. What I would like is for you to stop criticizing others for things you do too, particularly in such a way that says you're better than them. I think I've made my point so I won't be responding to this further. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 17:20, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

"By refusing to allow any right to be defined in similar terms as Jews in Israel, the state that is their adversary, are defined," shows this is an emotionally loaded issue for you. The difference with Jews is that's a common definition of the term. Ideally it would say, or a convert to their religion, Judaism. This is different. The sources are all indirect and it's patently obvious palestinians are not an ethnic group- again, see the template "ethnic groups in palestine".--Monochrome_Monitor 21:21, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Lemmie jump in amd say that while I personally believe the Palestinians are an ethnonational tool for the destruction of Israel (Zair Muhsain said it first), I don't think I can stand and have an argument about a complex topic about Anthropology since dispite the fact I do read about it, I dont understand it much like Nish and putting my views in articles is not my primary objective. My primary objective is to remove other people's views fron articles (as long as they violate NPOV or just wrong). The subject of Palestinian ethnicity is not fundemental like the State of Palestine subject, in which people used rational arguments to hide the fact the SoP is not a state (Been there several times, didn't feel like a state either).
Anyway feel free to continue this juicy argument here in my talkpage and maybe it'll be fruitfull. I am in a small wiki break but its nice to see some red notifications with spice (what am I even saying)-- (its bolter logged off)Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:43, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
I think they began as an ethnonational tool for the destruction of Israel but now they've become a nation through a shared experience of suffering and israel-hatred. Your spelling is delightful as always bolter :) --Monochrome_Monitor 04:50, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Palestinian nationalism began 50 years before Israel was founded.
Becoming a nation "through shared experience of suffering" and dislike of "the other" is exactly how most nations were constructed.
The day you learn to consider other people's identities as having equal weight to your own, will be the day you can proudly say you are a full member of the human race. In the meantime, you should look into your own heart and consider how you lost the ability to see others as you see yourself.
Oncenawhile (talk) 12:42, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
None of us are, Oncenawhile, 'full members of the human race', except in the sense that 'full' can, in some dialects of English, mean 'drunk'. I agree with your point philosophically, but being a 'full' member of the human race is a project not a realized reality, for anyone.Nishidani (talk) 14:11, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Once again (still?) not full members of the human race. I just delete Oncenawhile's posts to my talk page. He's a sad little dude with sad little habits. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 15:43, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Why think Oncenawhile was portraying Jews as Nazis, when he was saying what Bernard Levin (Now read On, Cape 1990 p.21), and numerous other writers and thinkers, have often said:'Have we made ourselves wholly self-contained - - to the extent that we cannot recognize other people as human ('She was nothing'), because we have dehumanized ourselves?'. Or compare this speech by Robert F. Kennedy, since it has the same language, about extending full humanity to people denied it. Your analogy comes straight after complaining of my use of analogies. In any case, can't Bolter and I and a few others have a chat to talk through differences without this kind of barb?Nishidani (talk) 16:45, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
To be honest, I don't really give a damn what the Palestinians do with their nationalism. They can establish 72 states for all I care. The main problem with their nationalism is things like this, or this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this etc. And cosmopolitanism is a false idea that will probably bring total devastation if someone will actually try to implement it, like in for example, a scenario in which the EU will start dissolving European governments and become a single country. Cosmopolitanism is like trying to make lions act like sheep, humans simply do not work like that. Back to Falasting.. Regardless of the roots of Palestinian nationalism, if the Arabs knew how to fight a war and Israel would have been destroyed in 1948, today there were no "Palestinians". The Jews didn't become a nation until the Nazis made them one, and same is for the Palestinians and their Nakba. The only differences are that the Jews already have 3,500 years of history while the Palestinians created themselves based on fictional colonial borders and the Zionist ethos is about the future while the Palestinian ethos is about the past. I really don't see any good future for the Palestinian society, with or without a state. The fact Palestine is a fractured dictatorship for more than a decade proves this, and it is not a superficial notion, when you look at Syria, Iraq or Libya.
Yoav Gelber has a paragraph in one of his book, that sumerizes my point and it goes like this (translated by me):

The answer to the question who commands who and where was the key to understanding the structure of the Arab force. Months of speculation did not led the Haganah to clear conclusions in this matter. The ties between the Arab League Military Committee, the Arab Higher Committee, the emergency committee in Jerusalem, Qawuqji in Samaria, Shishakli in the Galilee, Jihad al-Muqaddas, the cities' commanders and units of the Arab Liberation Army in the cities, the units of the Transjordanian Legion and Frontier Force in the Arab cities, the national committees and the municipalities – all of these were a puzzle that the Arabs themselves couldn't solve, while the Jewish and the British couldn't even understand it in hindsight

--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:06, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Read the history of the Irgun and Lehi 1936-1947, groups that played a key role in securing a Jewish state by resort to the deplorable terrorism whose Palestinian reflexes you rightly abhor. But I'll drop this conversation, which I thought was supposed to just talk about the anthropology of defining ethnic groups, because of the new disturbance to the relative equanimity with which we occasionally talk things over. Regards. Nishidani (talk) 16:45, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
The Irgun later made peace with Egypt, but the Palestinians are still shooting people in restaurants--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:49, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Racial odium consists in regarding all people belonging to an ethnic group as culpable of some defect, crime, attitude, intrinsic to them by virtue of the nature of their identity i.e. refusing to treat them as individuals, one by one. What is anti-Semitism, but seeing a 'Jew' as not the person who he or she is or may be, but as already thoroughly known from the collective smearing streotypes about 'Jews' current in several quarters? When you say 'the Palestinians' in the above context, you are painting them as ineludibly branded as terrorists, culpable, responsible, for what some in their ranks have done. It's the same logic, of collective guilt by mere association, the fact of having the same ethnic background or nationality as thugs or murderers. Nishidani (talk) 17:11, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
The Palestinians are not terrorists, they are a tool used by terrorists.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:15, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
In what way are 6 million people in Israel/Palestine tools of terrorists?Nishidani (talk) 17:18, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
When at first they are absorbed by Arab countries and denied civil rights in them and given a status of refugees for eternity. At first the PLO did not claim Gaza and the West Bank, they only claimed the "source of the refugees". While Egypt treated Gaza like a trash can, Jordan treated the West Bank as the other half of their kingdom. Suddenly when the Jews, sorry.. the Zionists, conquered Arab lands (WB, GS and Golan Heights), this is where the "Palestinians" come into place again, now not only refugees, but also under occupation. The Palestinian ethos is not about creating a strong, advanced nation with a high standart of living, the Palestinian dream is to put Israel in the dock and to make them suffer for their actions in 1948 and to alloy the Arab need for dignitiy, which was lost everytime they lost a war against Israel. It is already a religion. Now the Palestinian teenagers are born into bad circumstances, though not worse like in Syria, but far from sufficiant, and they are told by the people around them they have no future, and instead they are told to seek martydom, for their nation, for their religion, or for themselves. They see the Palestinian leaders praising the martyrs, they see the "heroic" death of their neighbors being celebrated by all of the village... They simply want to be "something" and the agenda is the Palestinian society advocates death over life so those teens go and stab soldiers, civilians, you name it. The IDF does the same, when they make propaganda videos of soldiers with gopro cameras, going in "exotic" regions like Nablus or Gaza, equiped with "awesome" gear and generally feal good with themselves and this is why so many teenagers in Israel still want to be combatants, but at least in Israel, death isn't praised by any large source but only the "pinch of radicals" as we like to call them. When a Jewish person burns a Palestinian family, you will have an endless debate, on hundreds of issues, including the right-wing in Israel, refusing the recognize the fact that a Jew murderes civilians. When a Palestinian teen stabs a 13 year old girl in her bed, there is no debate, he is a hero. If you disagree, you better keep it to yourself. Even if the person didn't even hit anyone, but only waved a knife, he is a "martyr", or a person whose death is holy. An Israeli soldier killed an injured terrorist and for 6 months he is in arrest and trial, with a debate that continues. In the Palestinian society you won't see such a debate, even for the most brutal killings, and not the extrajudicial killing of a criminal. This whole "popular resistance" is not just "desparate Palestinians stabbing people", this is a strategy, by the Palestinian leadership, to stay on mainstream media, and in the end of the day, recieve their luxury UN Security Council desicion to fuck Israel in some form, that will make them happy. I don't expect much from the people who murdered one Jordanian king, started a civil war while trying to murder another one and also tried to take over Lebanon. Some of those actions were made on behalf of the good will of the Soveit Union, which simply wanted to combat US' little friends. (By "the people" I mean the leaders and organizations of the Palestinian people, which are practicing two dictatorships in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank).--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:47, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Well, no point arguing then. Vague ideas and great historical overviews are fine. But the people who decide what's to be done usually combine hard analysis of the economics pros and cons. This doesn't quite apply here, because the Israeli occupation, as most analyses show, is deleterious for the Israeli short and medium term economy. As a Rand Corporation study indicated recently, were Israel to disengage from the West Bank it would benefit by $123 billion over a decade with a 5% rise in pro capita wealth, Palestine by $50 billion, with a 36% improvement in pro capita wealth. Why Israel remains has nothing to do with terrorism nor security, but (a) the whole occupation is sustained by an identitarian religious myth and (b)The obvious solution is not politically practicable, any more, for any person who wants to get elected to the Knesset.
The occupation has led to a $300 billion cost in obstructed development for Palestinians, at a cost of a mere $50 billion for Israel, amortizable as having a long-term benefit return over cost when Israel completes its integration of that land.
I'll just note that the West Bank and Gaza on the eve of the occupation in 1967 in your age group (15-17) had 44% of the youths in secondary school. Israel had 22.8% of the same age group.' Then Israel took over. What happened in the West Bank under occupation is too complex for a chat; things like the fact that immediately following the Oslo Accords, the West Bank began to deindustrialize, losing by 2010 88% of its predicted pre-1994 growth (IMT) increment; or things like not being a beneficiary of %150 billion in economic aid like Israel but having to face occupation losses equal to 84% of the local Palestinian GNP, or that as the authoritative World Bank (note a hive of Hamas/PLO executives and militants) estimates the cost of the Israeli occupation of the refusal of Israel to cede control over Area C, as it undertook to do in 1994, costs the Palestinian economy 3.5 billion annually, or that As for Gaza, how that was dedevelopped is the subject of Sara Roy's 'The Gaza Strip:A Case of Economic De-Development,' Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. 17, No. 1. (Autumn, 1987), pp. 56-88. I guess none of this matters. Terrorism makes headlines, and terror determines popular thinking, on both sides of the Green Land. The deeper issues are expendable.Still, you're young. Go out and enjoy yourself. None of our opinions will have the least impact of what will happen. Nishidani (talk) 20:01, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
When a society, condone and glorifies murder, murder will happen. No matter how bad the situation is. Though I don't have a source, I am most certain that there is more corolation between a social acceptence of terrorism and terrorism, rather than poverty and terrorism. The reason why terrorism is most common among Muslims in the 21st century is becuase in the 21st century, the majority of those who condone terrorism are radical Islamists. I do not think that the prize for blowing up busses is a sovereign state, but the Palestinians condone the violance anyway, believing the killings of Israelis are going to change anything, while in reality, it seems to only worsen their situation and has a deep connection to the radicalization among Israel's youth who later enlist to the army as fighters. The result is always the same: more dead Palestinians, which most Palestinian leaders use either as a tool against Israel in the UN or against Israel in Israel.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:08, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Terrorism? In 6 years the village of Nabi Salih had nearly 60% of its members (350 people) shot or injured (2010-2016) by IDF soldiers firing on them during their weekly protest marches to reclaim their land. I know, they were 'rioting'. Not one Israeli soldier, backed by the most powerful army in the region, was ever in danger from a disarmed population, on their own land. If you want to breed hatred, even a terrorist here or there, that is the perfect way to go about it.Nishidani (talk) 21:18, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
This might sound very anachronistic and millitary minded but you don't surrender to "weekly protests", you don't award them. Radical settlers know that and they enjoy it with the Temple Mount and other areas. The solution to that will only be to kick Naftali Bennet and his friends from the coalition. He is starting to feel like our Hitler. Back to Nabi Salah. I"ve heard from first source about the Nabi Salah protests (my high school was as "lefitst" as you), and while it sounds like a "hamble village protesting the occupation of its spring by foreigners", in reality, it is a cinema show, that cynically uses the villagers in order to create headlines. People come from all over the world, who want to feel heroic and fight for justice, coming and making provocations on behalf of the Palestinian Authority, which seeks to put the "Palestinian problem in the headlines". Already in the past it was discovered that PA officials are present in the village and create an "army" of youth for the violent riots and there are already dozens of cameramen waiting to take the picture of their lives. The PA and foreign organizations fund this "army" and the so-called Israeli "anarchists" just love this place. This is the sort of the stuff the brings the EU to spend tax money for more provocations, leading to pressure on Israel leading to the UN security council desicion the Palestinians want so bad, so they won't have to sit and refuse to accept Israel's fair offer, and now conveniently for them there is a clown leading Israel.
By the way, funny thing, Aleppo is smaller than Gaza, yet has about the same amount of civilians. A section of it has 300,000 civilians completely trapped under siege and in the last 14 days close to 400 civilians were killed (and if you compare the death per residence, the Aleppo death rates are actually twice as harsh as Gaza, without considering the fact not all 500 Gazans who were killed in the first 14 days were civilians), but it seems the world didn't really care too much about. AJ+ which posted several videos during the operation in Gaza, only cared to publish one video, talking about the war crimes made by Shimon Peres. CNN didn't post anything special about Aleppo. Still nice to see the BBC and Reuters, posting around 5-6 vidoes in the last 14 days. Social Media? Nothing.
And no I havent shifted to the right.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:42, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Where do these 22.8% and 44% numbers come from? They seem pretty unlikely. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 00:34, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
I cited the source years ago, registering the details on 2 articles, from which they have often been removed, and I keep having to put them back. See Culture of Palestine and Education in the Palestinian territories. The divergence is probably explained by the impact of massive Mizrachi immigration from the mid late 50s. It comes from my own copy, so I can't link it.Nishidani (talk) 12:03, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Hi Nishidani would you mind typing out a short quote from the source? I looked online (see the google books version at Elias H. Tuma; Haim Darin-Drabkin (1978). The Economic Case for Palestine (RLE Economy of Middle East). Routledge. p. 48. ISBN 978-1-317-59856-5.) but I couldn't find it. Oncenawhile (talk) 12:30, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
There's much there that is forgotten of what the state of Palestinian society was like before the occupation. In any case:'Almost universal education was characteristic of the 15-24 age group, while almost two-thirds of those going to school had over nine years of schooling. In comparison with both Israel and Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza seem to have a favourable educational basis. The age group 6-11 shows a high participation in Israel (84.4) than in the West Bank (80.5) but, in the group 15-17 years of age, the percentage in the West bank is considerably higher than in Israel, 44.6 compared with 22.8 in Israel.'p.48.
They add also that from 1956-1967, the student population in the (later) territories grew by 7.% per annum, way aboved the annual 3% increment in population growth. High school participation grew annually by 12.8%. Tertiary, college entry grew from 800 (1959) to 5,000 in 1966-7 (p.49). The occupation began of course and these pseudos all dropped their pretenses to be really enjoying the benefits and prospects of universal free compulsory 12 years of education provided by Jordan, and reverted to type by becoming Muslim-Arab-Islamic-terrorist/stone-throwing 'donkeys', driven by millennia of anti-Semitism. 50,000 home demolitions, 600,000 gaoled, 30,000 wounded in the first intifada, 91,000 thousand since the second, these are all irrelevant trivia that had no impact on the way Palestinians think or behave, etc.etc..Nishidani (talk) 13:13, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
That sounds even less likely. While I have no problem believing the Palestinians had higher education levels than their host countries because of UNRWA run schools, I have serious doubts they were higher than in Israel, both for practical (ei infrastructure) and cultural reasons. Israel already had a couple of world class universities and was forced to and very cognizant of its need to rely on its human capital. Also a drop from 80% in primary school to 20% in secondary doesn't sound likely at all. Here are some relevant statistics about edutation in the Middle East at the time, although it doesn't specifically mention the Palestinians. Notice that it says that in 1969 the enrollment in both primary and secondary in Israel was 81%. The source Oncenawhile posted doesn't seem to support 44% in secondary school either. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 15:45, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
'1969 the enrolment in both primary and secondary in Israel'. I cited the secondary school statistics for 15-17 year olds, very specific. The source was a book written by 2 Israeli economists, Elias H. Tuma, Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of California, and Haim Darin-Drabkin, a UN consultant on land policy. Their bibliography indicates they rely on Israeli official statistics. 29& of Israeli high schoolers went into vocational education in 1960, and that rose to 44% by the end of the decade, and large nos of those were Mizrachi. Nishidani (talk) 16:37, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
In any case, the point was, Palestinians in 1967, in econometrics, had an excellent educational basis for economic take-off and high growth (that is their conclusion) - much better placed that Arabs in surrounding countries. Bolter appears to think that a military occupation and total control of the land resources has no relevance. These things, if read, are ignored.Nishidani (talk) 16:58, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Considering that reviews (and the title) say this book is polemic, and that it contradicts other sources (not to mention common sense), I am fairly sure those numbers are incorrect. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 19:38, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Well. I've read the book. There is no polemical content. It is a technical analysis, written by men who were authorities in their fields. I read one or two reviews which were devoid of intelligent content. There is nothing in the title that is polemical. You've not shown where it contradicts other sources: Tuma has written extensively on that field. 'Commonsense' is an empty term, subjective. Your commonsense may suggest it is impossible that Palestinian youths at that age had statistically a better level of education than the average Israeli. The source says otherwise. It may be wrong, but the writers are highly qualified experts precisely on this area.Nishidani (talk) 19:48, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Bolter, your comments are interesting to read, and you are clearly a thoughtful and balanced individual. I'll add just two further comments to this:
Robert Pape has studied every suicide attack in the world since 1980, evaluating over 4,600 in all. He concludes: "What 95 percent of all suicide attacks have in common, since 1980, is not religion, but a specific strategic motivation to respond to a military intervention, often specifically a military occupation, of territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly. From Lebanon and the West Bank in the 80s and 90s, to Iraq and Afghanistan, and up through the Paris suicide attacks we’ve just experienced in the last days, military intervention—and specifically when the military intervention is occupying territory—that’s what prompts suicide terrorism more than anything else."[4]
You have also enquired before why do so many neutral people with no skin in the game support the Palestinian cause, despite the inhuman methods of those who commit terrorist attacks, and why is Israel singled out for criticism when so many other countries do bad things.
These all tie back to the same point - military occupation. As Pape says, military occupation is the single biggest factor in motivating terrorism. And Israel's military occupation of Palestinian land is by far the longest military occupation in modern global history.
Oncenawhile (talk) 09:14, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
It is one of the "beautifull notions" out there that "only if we stop occupation, there would be no terrorism". Funny enough, while 95% of sucide bombings according to Pape are made against occupations, 99% of the suicide bombings are made by Muslims. What do you assert from that? That suicide bombing is the result of Islam? Anyway I checked his theory, and it most certainly the absolute opposite of the situation in 2015. If you look at the statistics you see that most of the suicide bombings were not really by occupied people. ISIS in Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, Yemen, Saudi Arabia; Islamist rebels in Syria; Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan; al-Shabaab in Somalia, al-Qaida in Yemen.
Out of the 875 suicide bombings doccumented by the GTD, I saw no more than 5 that you might say are cuased by occupation. The attempted suicide bombing near Ma'ale Admumim, two suicide bombings by the PKK, one by Uyghur seperatists and two by Tuareg seperatists. So either Pape's argument is outdated, or he is drunk from his pacifism.
It is really fun to say "if the US didn't invade Iraq in 2003, there wouldn't be terrorist attacks", but it seems that while the US left, the suicide culture of the Middle East stayed.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 09:39, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Terrorism is a culture. You can have terrorism, only when you live in a society that endorses terrorism, publically or covertly. In Israel of 2015, you hardly have any terrorist attacks (one in 2014, three in 2015, apparently zero in 2016) and you hardly have any "honor killings" within families or between different ones. It is the Arabs and Muslims, who collectively still live in a regressive culture, in which murdering people is seem as legitimate by at least 1%, which is all it takes. And I am not an Ashkenazi Elitist, I can openly say that the oftenly called "Jewish-Arabs" (i.e. the regressive Mizrahis) are also sharing some of those cultural views on murder, as murder is generally more common among them. At the time of war, even the most cultured Ashkenazi people, lived in an environment, that endorsed things like this. You might say that in an occupied community, the chance of violance being endorsed by the people and leaders is higher, but I am not quite sure how this is fighting an occupation. In Israel, the only places where you see a long of racial violance is among the radicals who are able to justify and endorse it. Among the Ultra-Orthodox and Ultra-Nationalists.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 10:10, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Pape doesn't say "directly caused by", he says "in response to" occupation, and that the "vast majority of suicide terrorists hail from the local region threatened by foreign troops".[5]
Your second post is great. Your two observations: "1%, which is all it takes" and "in an occupied community, the chance of violence being endorsed by the people and leaders is higher" are very balanced.
Obviously it's not as simple as remove the occupation and suddenly hatred will turn into romance. All (!) that is needed is an acknowledgement within mainstream Israeli society that the root cause of the problem is occupation not anti-Semitism or other forms of fundamental hatred. What the solution is from there is clearly a highly complex question. The biggest barrier to peace is propaganda.
Oncenawhile (talk) 11:39, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
I don't think we should be preaching here, one way or another. It helps to have an exchange, analytical, data-based, at times just to get to know each other better. Bolter's argument is 'ontological' (Arabs,Muslims, terrorism) and arguments of an historical-economic-sociological order generally make no impact. They are two different modes of thinking.Nishidani (talk) 12:43, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Exactly Oncenawhile, when you see the MKs in Israel saying things like "all terrorists must die", someone will shot a wounded terrorist. The propaganda in Israel is a bit more complicated, because all of Israel's mainstream media, Channel 2, Channel 10, Ynet, Haaretz, Walla! etc. are all condamning of such actions, while the only media in contrast is things like Arutz Sheva, Channel 20 (you probably never heard of it), 0404 News and Rotter news, which except for Arutz Sheva, is a compilation of facebook-page-like websites and television shows, hosted by people who don't really understand too much in the reality, and bring stories that are not really important but present them as news. (For example, channel 20 made sure everyone will know that the Hebrew Wikipedia voted to delete an article about a terror victim, and brought "professionals" to talk about it). Still the mainstream media in Israel is written by the Left (Channel 10, Haaretz, Walla!) or by the centre/centre-right (Ynet, Channel 2) and not by the pro-settlement, religious-nationalist bloc of the right, which represents a too big portion of the Israeli government. The only ways to condone violance in Israel is through small facebook pages, mostly viewed by youth and soldiers, like the one owned by Yoav Eliasi and yet he does not directly condone violance, but does what Israel's right does all the time: shame the left and deny that Jews are wrongdoing, which is very different from what the Palestinians are doing, who are not denying wrongdoing, but simply deny the "wrong" part. While right wing Israelis will say "A Jew didn't murder Muhammad Abu Khadeir, the is a libel by the Arabs and the Left, the kid was a suspected homosexual and was killed by one of his family members", in the Palestinian society, you will see the reporters in PA or Hamas owned media, always using the a spesific language for describing assailants, regardless of their actions, always calling them "martyrs". The amout of people in Israel who have the guts to publically call Baruch Goldstein a "martyr" on mainstream media and if he does, he is going to recieve shaming. Most of the Israelis will tell you they dispise Baruch Goldstein, saying "he is not Jewish", "He doesn't represent Israel", on the same weight as the Muslims saying "ISIS isn't Muslim", "They do not represent us", but with the Palestinians, the people who don't represent them are people like Mahmoud Abbas, which "dares" to come the funeral of a "Zionist war criminal". The anwer to the question "why do Palestinians support stabbing attacks" is the same answer to the question why did the Germans supported the Nazis. While not all Germans supported the Nazis, the majority did and the minority was either silenced or didn't dare to speak. The Palestinians are ruled by a dictatorship called "national dignity", and it is simmilar to the same dictatorship that starts to take over many Jewish minds in Israel, called "Complete Israel" (not "Greater Israel") and many of them are generally nice people, who don't hate Arabs, don't know much about the conflict.. don't really care to understand what is going on, but when you talk about "dividing the Land", they will answer "NO! Why will we give up lands? for what? This is our land!, Why are the Arabs needing lands? They can move to Jordan! Last time we gave them lands it ended in the death of 1,500 Jews! Are you crazy?", is if someone formatted their brains with a disc. The difference is that the Palestinians didn't have a Ben Gurion to supress the radicals, they simply are radicals. While my people are also radical, at least "it is not their problem", their radicalization is not really going to change anything, becuase they are not the ones under occupation. If the Palestinians made Satyagraha instead, today there was no State of Israel, simply becuase we were deep in the Mediterranean Sea. I don't remember who said it, but there is a quote, saying "The best way to defeat Israel, is to make peace with it".--Bolter21 (talk to me) 14:10, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

The anwer to the question "why do Palestinians support stabbing attacks" is the same answer to the question why did the Germans supported the Nazis.

You didn't explain why the Germans supported the Nazis, but forget it.

"The best way to defeat Israel, is to make peace with it"

The logical form of this example is:-
An occupying power can only be defeated if the occupied people sue for peace.
I can think of no example in history where this applies. In fact it is pure fantasy. Nishidani (talk) 15:20, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
U.S. Admits Israel Is Building Permanent Apartheid Regime — Weeks After Giving It $38 Billion. --- Ijon Tichy (talk) 15:24, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
I think we're spoiling (I am feel responsible) Bolter's youth and leisure. These arguments, posed in this way, are intrinsically inconclusive, like the peace process itself. All one is left with is an obligation to understand the mechanisms of why a resolution of that conflict is politically impossible. There's an abundance of obscure studies on that, any one of which deserves more attention than following the froth of news channels, newspapers, social gossip, facebook, etc. Bolter shouldn't feel obliged to keep up the conversation, which has in any case,served its poipose.Nishidani (talk) 15:34, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
chas v'chalila! I"ve ruined my youth already when I was 10 years old and searched the word "sex" in google after one of the kids in class mentioned it. Those conversations are also fueling my next conversation with an Israeli right wing.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:39, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

What the hell happened here? Response time! Onceinawhile, I agree nationalism begins with a shared experience of suffering under and unifying against an enemy "other". I never meant to imply otherwise. American nationalism, German nationalism, Turkish nationalism, and yes, modern Jewish nationalism in the form of Zionism. Of course Jewish ethnogenesis (when they came to regard themselves as a people) proceeds Zionism (when they began to assert a right to a westphalian-style nation state) by millennia, while Palestinian nationalism and ethnogenesis are indistinguishable. Palestinians aren't unique in that regard- they share it with Iraqis, Pakistanis, et al. What is different is that (to my knowledge) Palestinian nationality is the only in existence which began with the effort not to build a nation but to destroy the nation of another- to destroy Israel and restore Arab unity. I don't believe that is still its purpose, but it undeniably was at its inception. Oh and NMMNG he definitely did not call me subhuman, he called me a petty tribalist. I just realized Bolter says almost exactly that farther down on the page, I'd just like to correct the view that the Holocaust created the Jewish nation, it was 19th century European nationalism and its antisemitic exclusion of increasingly assimilated Jews that did it, along with Russian pogroms and the Dreyfus affair. The Holocaust just made the gentiles temporarily more sympathetic to the idea of a Jewish state. Also Bolter, you forgot that the Palestinians backed Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait. You remind me of myself when I was 17, outraged at how the world (including one "Ijon Tichy") could be fooled by regurgitated Soviet disinformation against a tiny American ally. Then I realized that peace won't come from pointing out that the Western Wall was built by Herod to retain the second temple and not to keep Muhammad's magical flying horse from wandering off while he ascended into heaven. It won't come from regarding Palestinians as a tool made to harass us, either. Palestinians exist and they will continue to exist unless Jews do something really mean, and inshallah that will never happen. (Do you like how I paralleled the Hamas charter there?) And Nishidani, you never worried about spoiling my youth!--Monochrome_Monitor 23:57, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

I am not here to make peace. Frankly speaking if I were the PM of Israel, I'll prefer making a libral revolution rather than chasing the Palestinians because the UN chases me. Peace is urgent for the Palestinians, not me. It their problem and in their power to make peace. I learned not to be be excited by the word "peace" and to reject the notion I am a noble, progressive person if I support peace. It seems to me that supporting peace in Israel is as anachronistic as supporting war. I support reducing buearocracy, taxes and regulations. Those are things that can be done. Peace? I don't see an opportunity ahead, why waste time? Call me when there'll be a chance for peace.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 00:59, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Look at you, cynical already! How do you feel about Yesh Atid? Do you agree that Yair Lapid is attractive? And to comment on another thing above Nabi Saleh just so happens to be home to the infamous Tamimi clan, (which makes up the majority of its population) known for the production of such luminaries as the Sbarro suicide bomber.--Monochrome_Monitor 04:26, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

In 2013 I told anyone "don't vote for Lapid, he is a TV man, he can't change anything!". He got 19 mandates, became the finance minister and failed horribly. His other 18 mandates didn't do much, except for the controversial education minister Shai Piron. In 2015 the same people who voted for Yair Lapid (ex-voters of Kadima), voted for the Zionist Union and gave them another 10 mandates, which they used for nothing. So now many people want to vote for Yair again, which is a dictator in his party and an embarrasment. There is a bloc of 10-15 mandates, of the "center", who detached from the Labour party in the late 1990s. First it was Shinui, of the father of Yair Lapid, then in 2006 they moved to Kadima. In 2013 they moved from Kadima to Hatnuah and Yesh Atid and in 2015 they moved to the Zionist Union and Kulanu. In short, the base of the votes for Yair Lapid is not strong, and Yair Lapid only has a chance to survive if he will actually do something good for the country, which he probably won't given the fact he is just a TV person with too much confidence. The fact he might be the largest party in the 2019 elections, makes me wanna puke.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:56, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
What party do you align with then? You have yet to comment on his attractiveness. :P--Monochrome_Monitor 20:49, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Yair Lapid is not my type (though I usually prefer no-make up, so its another point to Yair, which means his general score is -499, because the fact he has a dick costs him in 500 points). All the good looking MKs in Israel happen to be in the bottom of my favorite political figures list. Stav Shafir is a marxist, Tamar Zandberg is efectivelly an Arab politician, Ayelet Shaked is a fascist and Tzipi Hotovely is an even worse fascist. As of October 2016, I support Ale Yarok, for the same principal of the voters of Gary Johnson. Some of my friends are considering to support Zehut (Moshe Feiglin's party), but I am yet to be impressed by them, and Feiglin is a dangerous figure.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:07, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Lapid doesn't wear makeup!?!?! It's so hard to find attractive women with moderate political views these days. You should start your own party of disaffected Gen Z-ers. Call yourselves the "apatheists". The slogan would be "Peace? Why waste time?"--Monochrome_Monitor 02:58, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
There's a proposition I get to vote for in november on legalizing cannabis in my state. I don't like the Gary Johnson comparison. He's a dumbass and my father is voting for him (according to my nine year old half brother, who says our father is voting for "the guy who smokes pot".)--Monochrome_Monitor 03:10, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
Feiglin doesn't seem to like Arabs very much.--Monochrome_Monitor 03:21, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Shabha Canton/region

Hi, Bolter21

Can you please wait with edits on Shabha Canton/region? This page was just vandalised by a user and is in proces of restoration. Kind regards--Niele~enwiki (talk) 10:51, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

The page is poorly sourced and poorly written. There is now a discussion about its deletion.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 10:55, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

'1) Hi, Shahba Canton/region is a self governed administrative region set up by the Rojava administration. This article is not an article and never was a article about a geographical region. Please do not mix these 2 up.

(2) It is in the process of being restored after vandalism. Offcource it needs impovement. Not all sources or already restored.

(3) This discussion of keeping this article was done month ago, no need to redo this because NPOV users wanting it of wikipedia because of own political goals. --Niele~enwiki (talk) 11:09, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Beit Qad at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; see step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 08:36, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Invitation from Wikipedia Asian Month 2016

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Could that completed map

You did for the Djagaraga (Gudang people) be uploaded to replace the Admiralty map on the Djagaraga? Sorry for the bother.ù, but it would be a pity to waste your work. Cheers Nishidani (talk) 21:41, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Nishidani Oh, it is already uplodaded. .--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:45, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, pal. I know fuck about uploads, pics,jpg or whatever. Nishidani (talk) 22:35, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
"png" is like Goldstar, sure it is not the best, but it would be more than enoguh in 99% of the cases. "jpg" on the other hand, is like Bleach.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:04, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

You know what they say, right? That one job well done....brings on more requests.... The Issa Amro article miss a picture...I think this should be available under CC 2.0. However...for some reason I cannot "grab" that picture, are you able to? Huldra (talk) 23:14, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

There you go: [6]--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:29, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! Much appreciated, Huldra (talk) 23:40, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Beit Qad

On 11 November 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Beit Qad, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the modern Palestinian village of Beit Qad is associated with the biblical locality of Beth Ekad, mentioned in the Book of Kings as the site of a massacre? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Beit Qad. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Beit Qad), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 01:12, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

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רחוב כורש

Shalom, we have an orphan article in Persian Wikipedia about Cyrus Street in Jerusalem. Can you write an article in Hebrew or French about this street so we can link them together? Thanks! Gnosis (talk) 14:56, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Seems like a pretty small and insignificant street. Is it notable?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:30, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
I know its pretty important for Iranian Jewish community. Gnosis (talk) 20:00, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Photo

If you're near any of the wildfires, could you take a photo and upload it to Commons? Dat GuyTalkContribs 15:10, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Gladly I am very far away, but I have a video of a firefighter plane refilling his water tank filmed by a family member..--Bolter21 (talk to me) 15:12, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
Do you think you could ask the family member to release the image under a free license? Dat GuyTalkContribs 15:16, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
What do you mean by "release"? I have the video on my phone right now, I can upload it. I just don't understand copyrights.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 15:18, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
Basically, you need to ask your family member "Can you tell me the video is under CC-BY-SA" (See Creative Commons license#Seven regularly used licenses for what it means, 3rd row on the table) If they agree, it'll be easier for you to send me the video. You can email me at Special:EmailUser/DatGuy and then I'll respond with more info. Dat GuyTalkContribs 15:25, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
I can ask, but isn't an evidence needs to be provided?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 15:28, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
You could either record it or take a screenshot confirming you called. Judging by your userpage and the fact it isn't publicised already (is it?), I'll assume good faith. Dat GuyTalkContribs 15:39, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
And it should be kept in the filepage or somewhere?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 15:46, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

The screenshot/recording will only be known to me if you'd like. The license itself will be on the filepage, and the person that took the video's name will be on the filepage. If you'd like, we can find an alternative so their real name won't be on it. Dat GuyTalkContribs 15:53, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Can we use my name? (Not that I expect some movie producer to take me as his cameraman). And excuse me for the aboundance of questions.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:06, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
I believe technically, your family member is the copyright holder. It could be "Bolter21's family member." Dat GuyTalkContribs 16:11, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
Ok, apparently the picture was not taken by my family member, but by someone from my family member's village..--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:14, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
Could the video taker release it? If not, is your family member close enough to take a picture? Dat GuyTalkContribs 16:34, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
She lives in Ein Ayala, so she is not really close. I am sure I could find someone on the Hebrew Wikipedia to upload a picutre.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:40, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

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Mew

Sup my fellow Khazar. How you doing? Are you in college yet?--Monochrome_Monitor 02:31, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Nope, I have three years of army first.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 10:17, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
Damn I should've known. Hopefully Hamas can keep it in their pants till your 21st birthday. I have finals week, it's awful. What's army life like? --Monochrome_Monitor 14:35, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
I will be recruited in March. And Israel is hardly fighting Hamas. My brother served in the Artilery wing, but most of the combat he has was Palestinian molotov throwers.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:56, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
Well then you might get to fight Sinai Province. Lucky you! How old is your brother? --Monochrome_Monitor 12:17, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Beyond 25. And I don't see how I am being luckey that I might fight in Sinai. I would"ve been lucky if I"d found my self in Unit 8200.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 13:42, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
I'm being sarcastic Stav. :P The sinai sucking fucks. wait, switching those letters didn't make it nicer. Anyway, it's desert and you're surrounded by people who hate you. The local Bedouin hate you, the Egyptian soldiers hate you, Gazan smugglers hate you, Islamic State hates you. Then again lol that's the case pretty much anywhere in Israel. Unit 8200 looks awesome but I'm guessing there are requirements for it. Is there some sort of placement test?--Monochrome_Monitor 15:47, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Sinai was the most quiet occuaption Israel had. The Beduins fucking love us. Israelis with money in their pockets come and spend it to ride their camels and see their blue holes. There was not a single terrorist attack made by the occupied Beduins. We treated them better than their own government and even after we left, thousands of Israelis came to visit. It was the Second Intifada that killed Sinai tourism, which is being revived now. My father served in Sinai and even after the withdrawal, he came to visit his Beduin friends there (Who asked him to bring hash and pornography with him). And I didn't go to 8200 because I don't want to, and still I ironically say it might've been better to me there, but I didn't want to risk lying to the army in order to lower my medical profile so I'll be able to be sent to an intelligence unit, but only to fail getting 8200 or any other good intelligence unit and then be stuck with a low medical profile, barring me from going to somewhere I want. I initially wanted to be a paramedic but I failed the exam, so I"ll just go to one of the combat units and ask to be a medic instead.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:21, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Heh, I wish the Palestinians felt similarly. What does "blue hole" mean? :/ Have you been training and stuff? --Monochrome_Monitor 17:31, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Blue hole--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:39, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Blue Hole (Red Sea); I have been told, that before the peace treaty with Jordan, sneaking across the border and looking at "The Red City" (Petra) was the Rite of passage for young Israelis. After the peace treaty, then diving under the arc at the Blue Hole is apparently *the* thing to do. The mountain behind the hole is covered with memorials over those who didn't make it. Huldra (talk) 23:23, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
'Sinai was the most quiet occuaption Israel had. The (Sinai) Beduins fucking love(d) us.' Those of the Sinai, in that period, (with all the Scandinavian nudists on their beaches, who wouldn't? I remember stopping round that time when waved to by two Bedouin kids a half a mile off, a boy and girl, with a flock, and running the distance to give them a handful of oranges). There's a great book on this:Smadar Lavie's The Poetics of Military Occupation: Mzeina Allegories of Bedouin Identity Under Israeli and Egyptian Rule, University of California Press, 1990 which starts out pp.7ff., more or less as your dad remembered, until you get to pp21ff., a prelude to many other anecdotes including being questioned by soldiers in a Bedouin coffee shop:’Look, there’s that weirdo who lives with the Bedouin. Why do you study Arabs? Aren’t Israelis good enough for you?' (p.113) etc. The Bedouin don't love you, if Smooha and Ghanem's 2001 paper, before the Al-Aqsa Intifada got really underway, since it concluded 42% of the Negev Bedouin deny Israel's right to exist.Nishidani (talk) 21:04, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Regarding the bedouin and the establishment of Israeli settlements in the northern Sinai, go here and search for "1972". I don't know if this information is on Wikipedia, but it should be. Zerotalk 22:47, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Talked more about the Sinai Beduin rather than the Negev Beduin. And if you compare the Sinai Beduin to the residents of Hebron, they love us.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:55, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
An article in Haaretz today says that Israel came very close to annexing Gaza+Sinai in 1956. Zerotalk 23:00, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Zero0000 And now in a random question: is there a good reason why isn't there an article for every village that was depopulated by the Turks only three decades ago? I heard some 3,000,000 people were depopulated from 3,000 villages, yet their article is embarrassing. Not to mention the 4,000 villags destroyed in Iraq. I find it quite amusing that there is an article for almost every village that was depopulated by Israel 70 years ago but hardly a mention to the millions of Kurds depopulated. I couldn't find a single list in the internet of villages that were destroyed. The picture I received from the amount of information that was dedicated to these villages was that every depopulated village is a story, but then I realised that village are depopulated all of the time, and there are hardly any Benny Morrises out there. During the Croatian War, hundreds of thousands of Serbs fled their villages and the Croats burnt the villages to the ground, making sure no one will return. I thought that a depopulated village is a big deal.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:13, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
And by the way Zero0000, I read today about the Jewish ambition to remain in Sinai in a book by Amos Kenan. Ben Gurion told the soldiers that now Sinai will be part of the "Third Israeli Kingdom" or something like that.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:20, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
"Blue hole" sounds like a freaky sex thing. And dear Stav, you and I both know why there are articles for every palestinian village, and not every kurdish village. It is the same reason for why wikipedia calls the PT occupied, and calls Northern Cyprus "disputed", even though Cyprus existed as a sovereign state before Turkey invaded it while a Palestinian state never existed. But yeah, we should get some WikiKurds on the case. I've been pretty lazy in covering the ongoing Turkey-Kurdish conflict. The media never mentions it but some Kurdish towns have been under military curfew for months, others look like Syria.--Monochrome_Monitor 23:37, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
I've been reading a lot about Hezbollah lately because the Lebanese sold out their country to Nasrallah a few weeks ago. You live in Tel Aviv, right? Are you ever afraid of a Lebanon War 3.0?--Monochrome_Monitor 23:43, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
I am not mad at Wikipedia, I am mad at Wikipedia's sources. Wikipedia is not stripped to any political ideology, it must mirror reliable scholarship and there is a lot of it about Palestinians, just not on the rest. And no I am not really afraid of a third Lebanon War, exactly because I live in Tel Aviv. I might be in the front, that's more concerning (because I might be recruited to the Nahal, and they just moved from the West Bank to the Northern Galilee.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:47, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Well, there are about ten times as many articles about Israelis killed in the conflict, than about Palestinians killed. Even though this in no way reflects the number of casualties on each side.....Huldra (talk) 23:23, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
@Hul, the reason why there are so many articles is becuase they usually cover suicide bombings. I don't think there should be an article for every attack, but in many cases Palestinian deaths don't deserve an article just like Israelis, though there are some cases that don't get articles. I already stated that more than 50% of the articles written in the last year need to be deleted.
What do you think the chances are, that a 10 year old Israeli boy, shot by Palestinians, would get his own article? Pretty damn good, I would say. But the chances that 10 year old Ahmed Moussa, from Ni'lin, getting an article is close to zero. I'm glad that you agree that most of Israeli memorials should get deleted, but that doesn't change the fact that they are still there.... Huldra (talk) 20:17, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
The answer to your "is there a good reason..." question: I think that the ultimate aim should be that Wikipedia has an article on every currently or previously inhabited site for which reliable sources can be found. Sites which are reliably attested but without enough information for an article should be listed in list articles. Another example is Eastern European villages destroyed in WWII — if I understand correctly only some fraction of them have their own articles so far. Wikipedia is going to be a work in progress for a long time. Zerotalk 00:13, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
I should"ve phrased my question differently. Why is there almost no information about individual villages that were depopulated in the last 70 years except for the Palestinian ones? Is the historeography of the Nakba is merely political?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 01:22, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
You should ask dr Blofeld; he started the articles on all the depopulated 1948 Palestinian villages (those which had not already been made) back in 2009. I'm sure he would love to start an article on each and every other depopulated village, too.....Huldra (talk) 23:23, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Let's start with every village that DOES exists. It really pains me that such simple information is hidden. I would gladly devote years to do Rashid Khalidi's work in Kurdistan, but the Turkish government will arrest me before I could even start. Its about time National Geographic or something like that will make a Gazeteller for every country in the world.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 02:26, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Better still, lets start with every article that already exists..... Seriously, I am not at all happy about the prospect of more articles...as long as we have literally hundreds of articles on places which are not yet expanded, Huldra (talk) 20:17, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
There's no conspiracy theory worth raising on this. History is what is documented, textually or archaeologically. Most things that happen beyond the purview of field observers doesn't get registered. Secondly, there are substantial resources in Kurdish, Arabic and Turkish books, memoirs, archives, but there are few scholars working them to bring the material to Western eyes. Just on the French occupation of Lebanon, I believe, Zero will correct me, that there are several miles of archives available,but few researchers. Palestine is richly covered by Israeli and Western sources because it was the object of profound attention for religious, political and administrative reasons, and we can cover it because the sources are ample in Western languages and Hebrew. Of course, because it happens to be a zone of contention with intense focus in the West, politically and militarily and ideologically, there can't but be a political interest in all this, but given the amplitude of sources, it is inevitable that scholars work it intensely. It's taken Australian historiography a century to try to get round to retrieving what can be retrieved from the disiecta membra of colonial reports whatever knowledge can be scrounged to reconstruct the aboriginal world, 500-700 tribes and perhaps close to 400 languages went missing for a century and a half, and most of what we might like to have known is now extinct or erased. In Tasmania there were 48 distinct tribal groupings, broken up into two major language families, 5 regional sub-language groups, all with their own distinct dialects, mythologies and rituals. We have, for this, word lists of a few hundred terms, and almost zero knowledge of differences. That doesn't deter scholars from trying to ferret out the lineaments of each, with obsessive care to do justice to an historic reality contempt, insouciance and concealment collaborated into cancelling. Nishidani (talk) 15:59, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
You do remember English isn't his first language, right? Take it down a register or two. I couldn't decide whether Tel Aviv would be more or less safe. Less because of its strategic value and because Nasrallah and Iran always threaten to destroy it, and more for the same exact reasons lol. Since the last war Israel has gotten the Iron Dome, and hopefully by the next one it will have the Iron Beam, David's Sling, and other cool shit. But Hezbollah has also gotten many more missiles, including mid-range missiles that can easily reach all of Israel. Have you ever seen an Iron Dome interception?--Monochrome_Monitor 17:49, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
@Nish, to me it seems Palestinian propaganda has created a community that is obsessed with every single hectre they lost in 1948 in order to make sure they will not succumb to the reality (simmilar to how the Likud blames the left even though they have controlled the country on and off for almost 40 years, and now, when they direct the more fire towards the left than ever, they actually have the most right-wing government in the history of Israel, following two other right-wing governments). My father said that in 1948 they shoul've razed every single village that was depopulated (they didn't complete the job) and remove all Arab names. Now I begin to understand why.
@Stav, to me it seems Zionist propaganda has created a community that is obsessed with every single hectre they lost in 70 A.D. in order to make sure they will not succumb to the reality (of the intervening 2,000 years) Nishidani (talk) 21:11, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
@Mono-Moni, Have seen a few Iron Dome interceptions, not really exciting in the second time, surely not in the 5th. And Iron Dome will be useless against Hezbollah in the region of Tel Aviv. The whole point of the Iron Dome is to break the moral of the Arabs, and Hezbollah has rockets big enough to surpass the Iron Dome. Iron Beam is against mortars and is only effective in the thin strip around the border, where the mortars take 10 seconds to hit. The Magic Wand system is supposed to deal with the large rockets Hezbollah have for Tel Aviv, and if Hezbollah really want to feel triumphent, they can fire their Scud missiles, which have to be intercepted by the Arrow system (the missiles are 11 meters/36 feet long). The idea in the IDF is simply to attack every known target immidiately. You can't reasonably hide huge rockets like the one Hezbollah owns and expect the IAF not to bomb them, if a real war will start, they would prefer to launch all the large rockets they have immidiately. All I've mentioned above will probably be summed up in the media as "Israel massacres Lebanese civilians".--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:59, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
@Nish, whant to hear something crazy? We didn't learn about the Great or Bar Kokhva rebellion in school. We didn't even learn about the Hashmonaim. Only two years were dedicated to Jewish history, of them one year to Zionism (i.e. until 1914) and the Jews between Cyrus and Alexander, and one year dedicated to the Holocaust and the State of Israel. We never had geography in elemntary school and they didn't teach us the borders of Eretz Yisrael and most of the maps we have in textbooks mark the green line, and in some of the cases, even in East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. When we were taught about Zionism, and it was only history, not ideology, the stance of the education is that, "there was simply no other choice" and not "this is our right". It even says in the textbook of the State of Israel, that many of the more wealthy Jews decided to go to the United States instead. Even the Nakba is briefly mentioned. In my Civil Studies textbook, there is an entire section dedicated to the a Halacha State, National-Religious State, Jewish State, Jewish People's State, State of the Jews and a "State for all citizens". In the page about national positions, they include both "Arab" and "Palestinian". I wonder if the Palestinian friends in the West Bank teach about Jewish nationallity, the option of a non-Palestinian state with equal rights, that there is a green line in the map and if they briefly teach the Holocaust.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:49, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Of course there was a choice. Most Jews don't live in Israel. Zionism was founded long before the Holocaust, and if you read Isaac Bashevis Singer extensively, you'll note that East European Jews mostly aspired to emigrate to the New Zion, that was the United States. There's a lot to be said for the idea that Israel was created by the anti-Semitism of the U.S. England, France, Australia, Canada etc., in not accepting responsibility to take in Jews after WW1 and WW2. The Palestinians in the West Bank don't have to study textbooks on Jewish nationality. All they need do is try to drive a car through a checkpoint, get a building permit, go through an airport, or try to marry some Palestinian on the other side of the border x to the nth power. They mightn't know much about the Holocaust, but Jewish Israelis know zilch about the nakba (not that they are comparable). Nishidani (talk) 22:08, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
I would have responded with an "if" answer, but it is dull. How many times can we say that "if" the PLO didn't infeltrate the West Bank (after a failed attempt to rise against Jordan and Lebanon), their situation would have been better. There were slight expansions to the fishing zone in Gaza, the number of truckloads entering Gaza is now higher than the pre-blockade one, Lieberman's "carrot and stick" policy of giving building permits to Palestinians in Area C. Most of the checkpoints (60% in the Hebron area) in October-December 2015 were placed on these same months and most of them removed, going back to 2014 numbers. They might be eased more, should the silence continue.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:28, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Palestinian schools use maps of Mandate Palestine, from the river to the sea. Obv they don't teach the Holocaust, though one brave teacher took his kids to Auschwitz and he received death threats and a torched car in return.[7]. 40% of Arab Israelis deny the Holocaust because it "might justify Israel's existence as a Jewish state".[8] And we all know Mahmoud Abbas's famous Holocaust denial essay at KGB Uni, which borrowed source material from Adolph Eichmann. As for Zionism, I agree it was a choice, a choice between being a free people in our land or fertilizer in someone else's. But in all seriousness, most Eastern European Jews chose to immigrate to America because they wanted a better life than the one they had before. Olim of the First Aliyah who left the Pale for Palestine arrived to find a land equally impoverished with rulers whose oppression rivaled the Czar, and some added bonuses like being a minority amidst a hostile Arab population and tropical diseases. Only the most religious or idealistic went to Palestine, the rest chose America. Not because they were anti-Zionist, on the contrary their monetary support was fundamental to sustaining the movement. They were just realists. I'm positive that if Israel had existed as a state then a greater proportion of European Jews would've chosen to make aliyah. Case in point look at how many Eastern European Jews immigrated to Israel in the 90s. As for most of the Jews in the world being in diaspora, that won't be for long. Historic trends have Europe's Jews immigrating to Israel or North America, and North America's Jews are rapidly assimilating. American Jewry's birth rate is well below replacement levels and the intermarriage rate is sky-high. The diaspora is becoming obsolete. [9]--Monochrome_Monitor 17:27, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Pardon the interruption from a talk page stalker, but I wrote the article about Mohammed Dajani Daoudi, the Palestinian professor who brought the first—and possibly only—group of students from Palestine to Auschwitz. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:46, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
You might add a note there to Zeina barakat's defense of Daoudi. Good work.Nishidani (talk) 21:08, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
I.e.History reduced to quarter baked clichés and vapid (n)one liners, with the one ineludible basso ostinato - 'Grievance! Vindication is ours, said the Lord, even if we have to shit on those who had nothing to do with the original resentment.'Nishidani (talk) 20:23, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
I'm not justifying shitting on anyone or anything. Is there a particular thing I said you contest?--Monochrome_Monitor 20:56, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Everything. But it's pointless. The capacity to imagine can be self-referential, but usually has an extension that is fundamental - empathy. The hypertrophy of imagination on the fertile soil of one set of grievances to the automatic exclusion of a parallel set is one of the major causes for the present banality of our contemporary (we)evils.Nishidani (talk) 21:07, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Oh and that's awesome MShabazz. I'll check it out, he's a cool guy. Anyway, I'm trying to have a conversation with Bolter here!!!!--Monochrome_Monitor 21:01, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Great article! Ey Stav, why are your rabbis such assholes?[10] Who elects these people?--Monochrome_Monitor 21:08, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Mostly under privilaged and undereducated people who vote for Shas just like they light candles in saterday. Shas is probably the most corrupted party in the Knesset, unless there is more corruption in Yisrael Beitenu, yet to be unvailed.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:32, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks Stav, and sorry for missing what you thought was the main point. I looked at the whole site. You've given me food for thought, and I'll get back chewing over it during my 2 hourly breakfast excursion this morning.Nishidani (talk) 08:20, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Re-Welcome

I Don't want to enter the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I am talking about a simple point concerning my people nothing more. Regards.--BerneCha (talk) 02:01, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Merged?

This and this should possibly be merged on he.wp, cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:04, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

One is an article about spring and the other is an article about a depopualted village. I don't think it should be merged, and the Hebrew Wikipedia is a hard place to work in. I've found myself attempting to start to edit in it and then leaving because of the community there three times.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:21, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Ok, but that spring (with the remains of a mosque) was on village land, AFAIK. Which should be at least mentioned? Huldra (talk) 23:28, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Both the spring and the village are mentioned in both articles, and they even used Victor Guerin as a source. I happen to know this sprig, I have visited Begin Park when I was in the scouts a few years ago. I think that in Israel, "Ein Kobi" and "al-Kabu" are regarded as two different things, mush like biblical places and modern places accosiated with them.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:37, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Ok, fine if they are both linked to each other. And I thought "Ein" came from "Ain", meaning a spring? You see countless places on the SWP maps, where village X is close by "Ain X", (water, of course, being a necessity for a settlement.) Huldra (talk) 23:44, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
In Hebrew Ein and in Arabic Ayn (at least in Palestinian pronounciation), both mean "spring". They are both spelled the same (عين = עין = a'-y-n, same letters, same order), but the transliteration to English makes a mess.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:52, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
I am also overwhelmed by the fact the article about the spring is actually well sourced. A rare sight in the Hebrew Wikipedia.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 00:14, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Ok, another question. There is a whole set of pictures on commons over Category:Train to A-Luban village, nothing matching on en.wp. Firstly, which A-Luban village do they mean?? Al-Lubban al-Gharbi or Al-Lubban ash-Sharqiya? Secondly, which villages did it pass? This map looks useful, for anyone who knows Hebrew? And this article looks relevant? I have already chanced it, and added this to the commons cat of Bayt Nabala. Huldra (talk) 21:56, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

The Railroad to Al-Lubban was a millitary train extension(?) the British paved during the Sinai and Palestine campaign in World War I to provide logistic support to their forces in the Auja–Auja line. The railway with a narrow bandwidth was paved in the first half of 1918, perpendicular(?) to the Ottoman Eastern Railway from Kfar Jinis(he), parallal to Beit 'Arif River(he) to Al-Lubban [al 'Arbiyya]. After the war another extension(?) was paved until the Beit Nabala Train Station(he) for the transport for quarries.

Terrible but sufficiant translation of the openin section.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:24, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. There is actually an English book referenced, however, it is not in a library in my country. And Kfar Jinis, or Kfar Jinnis is a place which has popped up a lot, see User:Huldra/HA#p.156, it will get its en.wp article one day. What I wondered is was this close to Rantis? And Kfar Truman was first established in 1949, surely it was not called Kfar Truman Terminal originally? Kfar Truman was established on Bayt Nabala land, but there already is a Category:Beit_Naballa_Train_Station. Huldra (talk) 23:29, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Kfar Jinnis is actually the village of Jindas. The bridge near Rantis, is a bridge I guess.. Couldn't find anything about it. As for Kfar Truman, it was called Bnei Harel and its name was changed to Truman after the name of the US President. My best guess is that the name Kfar Truman Terminal is based on the fact the railway was still in use after 1949.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 01:10, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Nope, Jindas and Kfar Jinnis are two different places. Take a look at SWP Map 13; you see Jindas and Jisr Jindas close together, just north, or really in the outer parts of Lydda. Then, almost straight 3 miles north of Jisr Jindas, (which is at about 141/152) you see Kefr Jinnis (at 141/155)
And, irregardless of name, Kfar Truman/Bnei Harel was founded in 1949, the railway was built in connection with WWI, it must have had another name earlier......Huldra (talk) 01:37, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Kfar Jinnis is very close to BG Airport (I think right beside the older terminal buildings of the airport). Zerotalk 08:00, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
I am totally confused right now, I could have sworn I saw somewhere that said "Kfar Jinnis, also known as Jindas". Anyway, there isn't a lot of information about those places in the internet. As for the terminal, I couldn't find any mention to its name, either as "truman terminal" or "beit nabala terminal".--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:57, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Well, that is actually quite possible; virtually every writer in this area (including Khalidi!) have mixed up places and made mistakes...Btw, Khalidi, 1992, p. xix writes that Jindas was depopulated before 1948, therefore he does not include it in his 1992 book, it is the present Ginaton. Im not sure if Jindas should redir to Jisr Jindas......or Ginaton. Huldra (talk) 21:33, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Click on this 1940s map - it opens with the current location of Kfar Truman in the center. Zoom out one step. You can see Jindis to the SW, Lydda airport to the NW with "Kh. Kfar Jinnis" just above it, and you can see a few short branch lines of the train including one that ends at Beit Nabala to the NE. The endpoint of that branch line was probably called the Beit Nabala terminal (or terminus), but I can't verify that with a source. Zerotalk 03:36, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Looking at a more detailed map, I see that this branch line was called the Beit Nabala Line, and the station marked "Sta." where it leaves the north-south line was called "Kafr Jinnis Station". Zerotalk 03:44, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

1947 in Aden

Hi, Please look at the section on this at History_of_the_Jews_in_Aden#Anti-Jewish_riots_in_Aden. I think it is a lot better than what is at 1947 Aden riots, but since I wrote it I might be biased. Would you object if I copied that section into 1947 Aden riots to replace much of what is there? Also, on "riot" versus "pogrom", the problem is that the original meaning of "pogrom", which is still widely regarded as the correct meaning, is a mass attack that is officially organized or at least officially sanctioned. This riot was not, so the word is misleading. I would agree to something like "1947 anti-Jewish riots in Aden". Zerotalk 23:04, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. I had too many things to do last two days so I didn't have much time for Wikipedia and I also ended up doing almost nothing. I'll check it out, and if you wrote it, I assume it is well sourced. I am also planning to add information from that Haaretz article, which seems to be good.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 14:19, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Your email

Replying here to your email. I prefer to correspond in talk pages, unless the matter is confidential. What you're looking for is an OTRS tag. While waiting for the permission email to arrive, the copyright upload should be tagged with {{OTRS pending}}. There's full instructions at WP:Donating copyrighted materials and a sample permission email at WP:Consent. The material should be uploaded at Commons, not here. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 14:20, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Great! Thanks.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:14, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

ANI

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Slatersteven (talk) 22:08, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

My bad

Yes I edited in haste and hadn't spotted the context. I hope to come back with a break down of the 100 deaths. Padres Hana (talk) 22:17, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Sure, no problem, we all make mistakes. There is a section in the bottom of the article about the results and the aftermath, I will add what you wrote but in a better summery I found now in one of my books.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:21, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
added.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:31, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

It's maan but

The statistics, graphs etc they provide for the article you worked on re the third intifada, Jerusalem, silent ior whatever intoifada over the year from 2015/2016 october can be got here. Might or might not be useful. Regards Nishidani (talk) 15:46, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Used the previous one already, and it's not Ma'an, but Chloe Benoist.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:49, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Beit Qad) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Beit Qad, Bolter21!

Wikipedia editor DrStrauss just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Hi, thanks for your article. I've reviewed it and it's a-ok! Well done!

To reply, leave a comment on DrStrauss's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

DrStrauss talk 14:24, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Katamon

I think the looting of Katamon in 1948 was systematic and under central control. I will put in the references in when I see them again. All the best. Padres Hana (talk) 21:09, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

"please don't be Illan Pepe"--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:10, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Dayr Muhaysin

Hello! Your submission of Dayr Muhaysin at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 22:46, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Side note, no resp please...

With whatever I consider your POV to be, you're quite reasonable in an area where true reasoning is abandoned. For you to get a perspective in regards to my judgement: I'd say the same about Nishidani (who I admire in a sense). Also, I hate myself, somehow.--TMCk (talk) 00:02, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I don't know how or way, but I managed not to notice this message. Oh, and "you're quite reasonable in an area where true reasoning is abandoned", I am here from 2015, and I don't remember much reasoning to be abandoned, from either side. And I don't know you, but I don't see a reason to hate yourself, generally or specifically.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:49, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Dayr Muhaysin

On 14 February 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Dayr Muhaysin, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Palestine Exploration Fund's Survey of Western Palestine suggested that the depopulated Palestinian village of Dayr Muhaysin was a Crusader village, held as a fief of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Dayr Muhaysin. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Dayr Muhaysin), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Vanamonde (talk) 03:30, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

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