User talk:Brian Crawford/Archive 4

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Re: Warning

I am sorry but I have not been on the Kingston page or made any changes. You must have me confused with another party. (talk) 20:05, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, that was a very long time ago. Since the change was made by an anonymous i.p. rather than a registered editor, chances are that it was someone else who happened to be logged in using the i.p number at the time. So, since you are now using this i.p. number, you'll see the warning message. BC  talk to me 20:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Arthur Kellam Tylee

Thanks for contributing to the Arthur Kellam Tylee article. Do you know what happened to Tylee after he ceased to command the Canadian Air Force? I have been trying to find out without success. Greenshed (talk) 20:58, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Coincidentally, I was curious about this as well and I just finished doing a thorough search in my personal references, and online and found nothing. The next time I'm at the local military museum library, I'll check. The only information I have is that he was an officer with the old CAF before 1924. I found no evidence he was with the RCAF - hence my category removal. You wouldn't happen to have any more info about the Canadian Air Force (1920–1924)? I started the article and it could use some expansion. There is some info on the DND site that could be used, but more/better detail would help. I do have some more of my own information but there are some discrepancies with my sources. BC  talk to me 21:50, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
While I did not put Tylee in the RCAF cat, are you sure that he had retired by 1 April 1924? Greenshed (talk) 13:29, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Is there any chance that Tylee went on to become a missionary? Or are there two different Arthur Tylees? See Greenshed (talk) 13:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
As far as retirement by 1 April, I'm not sure. What I do know is that on March 31, over 300 airmen were automatically discharged and offered the opportunity to join the new and "official" air force. This could have included Tylee. Many rejected the offer. Sixty-two officers were granted commissions in the new RCAF after being retired from any rank they may have held in the CAF. Thirty-three were charter members of the post-war CAF, with commissions dated Feb, 1920. No evidence this included Tylee, however. I also noticed that Tylee or his namesake was a missionary. This is always possible, but without a good reliable reference, we can only speculate.  BC  talk to me 18:16, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Having found his death date of 1961, that rules out the missionary theory. I did think that if the first commander of the Canadian Air Force had been killed by tribesmen while undertaking missionary work, it would have probably made the headlines in the Canadian press. Greenshed (talk) 18:55, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
Agreed.  BC  talk to me 19:05, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Merry, merry

Bzuk (talk) 23:02, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Happy, happy

Happy New Year, and all the best to you and yours! Bzuk (talk) 08:04, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Blues#Name discussion (2)

A discussion is taking place on the most appropriate and helpful name for the article on the musical form the blues. It is currently named Blues. It was moved to The blues, then moved back to blues. A current suggestion is blues music. Wider consensus is welcomed. SilkTork *YES! 13:02, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Happy 10th Anniversary of Wikipedia!

Re: Brown Bear talk.

I edited only my own comments to reduce some ambiguity and add a legitimate reference. (talk) 01:41, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Okay, no problem. It's always a good idea to log in and make the edit rather than change your edits on the talk page anonymously. That way the edit won't be misconstrued as being done by someone else. Cheers. BC  talk to me 05:24, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Golden Hawks

Dear Brian;

The reason that I added the information regarding the Golden Haws, was to include relevant information about this project! I spent thirty five years in aviation as an AME and I worked for Field Aviation in Mountainview airport about 10 miles south of Trenton Airbase, from 1958 until 1963. R.C.A.F. stored the aircraft that I mentioned, in the additions, and we carried out modifications repairs etc. before they were sent back into service as required. We modified the Golden Hawks as I indicated, and were well acquainted with the initial crews as they spent considerable time becoming familiar with the aircraft! As I mentioned they also had their first practices at Mountainview!

You can find references to this and other Air Force information in my book "A Canadian in Aviation" by Dick Chapman at or Barnes and Noble Book Stores! The book has only been in print for about four months and I am in the process of marketing it! in a number of outlets.

I trust that this information is satisfactory, and if you have any questions, please contact me or 519-823-8583.


Dick ChapmanChappy75 (talk) 19:37, 26 January 2011 (UTC) 519-823-8583

Hi Dick, thanks for the information and for adding to the value of Wikipedia. I would love to read your book; I'm sure it will bring back lots of memories. The reasons I removed your additions was mostly they were unreferenced. Feel free to add the information back, but please add your references (see wp:sources). I'm sure there would be lots of discussion because of the discrepancies in the facts. Wikipedia, however, has rules about what can be included. If you add information that is original research (e.g. from first hand experience or even a book you wrote), it could be removed. Wikipedia is essentially a compendium of information that already exists, and everyone has to be able to back up their edits with reliable sources. The reason why I said "incorrect or dubious" is that the information you added seemed to disagree with my sources, which was Dan Dempsey's book "A Tradition of Excellence". He mentions how Mountain View was indeed where the jets were obtained, but there was no mention of the Golden Hawks practising there. The book mentions that the jets were taken out of storage at MV and that S/L Villeneuve, who led the GH from 59-60, only test flew the Sabres (1959 rather than 1958 as you mentioned) to ensure they were capable of the job. Painting, repairs/maintenance were to be handled at 6RD, Trenton. Any jets deemed undesirable were to be returned to MV. The first two aircraft were test flown and found acceptable in February 1959 (not 1958). The team was official as of March 1, 1959. Actual preliminary team training took place at Chatham. Perhaps some of this information is wrong? Anyway, welcome to Wikipedia, and I look forward to editing with you. Please don't be discouraged by the reversal of your edits; this happens to all of us. I'm sure you have lots of information you could add (referenced) that would add incredible value to this encyclopedia. Cheers.  BC  talk to me 23:59, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

January 2011

I think you were confused with your edit to 2008 Summer Olympics, so I have reverted it. - David Biddulph (talk) 19:29, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

You and I hit the revert button at the same time. You beat me, and I reverted you by accident. Sorry about that. BC  talk to me 19:31, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
As a matter of interest, does Twinkle not let you see what changes you are making before you save the change? - David Biddulph (talk) 19:43, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Yes, it does. But I guess I wasn't paying attention to the versions. I really do have to be more careful and not be so quick on the button. Cheers.-- BC  talk to me 20:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Red Knight

Dear Brian,

I'll lay off the "Pink Dink" since it seems to upset you but you know very well I'm right. I remember vividly the day that Alton crashed; my father (a W/O) came home and told us the "Poor Pink Dink" had augered in. My good friends Mike Rush (killed in a T-bird at Cold Lake, Major Matthews (died of cirrhosis; a true fighter pilot), Capt. Greg Fox (still flying, believe it or not!) all used the moniker and EVERY enlisted man employed it. The act was called that everywhere. Good lord, you must know how profane we were back then, if you were in the thick of it. Funnily enough, I was on the phone to Capt. Fox only a week or so ago and mentioned that I still had a Red Knight shoulder flash and he immediately said that other (probably envious) pilots never called the act by its proper name. It was always The Pink Dink.

Best regards from the frozen wastelands,

(Schlusselmensch (talk) 04:09, 12 February 2011 (UTC))

Hi, thanks for the interesting info. I knew you were probably correct and I don't disagree with what you say, but my issue wasn't so much with the information per se, but with the fact that this tid bit of history should be referenced and should not be from personal recollections. Wikipedia is basically a compendium of facts/information that already exists in written form somewhere else such as a reliable, authoritative website, book, journal, etc. (see wp: RS and wp:OR). My source (Dempsey's book) only mentions that after a party some Blue Angel pilots visited Hallowell's hotel room when he was at Paine Field and played a joke on him with a couple of "sweet things" who climbed into the sack with him. The description goes on to say that the next day "the Red Knight was known as the "Pink Dink" - and I hadn't done anything." I may have interpreted this wrong, however. It could refer to the Red Knight in general rather than to just F/O Hallowell. The problem would be to make the information encyclopedic and relevant to a general article. In my opinion it's not terribly notable for a general article, though. I too am in the frozen wastelands. Cheers.  BC  talk to me 05:16, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I'd have to look at my log book, but I'm pretty sure I did my Commercial ride with Bill Slaughter in '76 or '77. I should have asked him! Personally, I see no difference between "authorative" works and personal recollections of people who were there on the sharp end. There's no dearth of patent nonsense in print. I would suggest that the reference might have been left in to see if any former Red Knight people would weigh in.

Well it appears that we've not raised any hackles to the point of edit with the nickname inclusion ....yet. Regards, Ken
Hi Ken, I don't think there'll be any hackles raised, at least not right away (could take a year before someone says it may be unnecessary trivia or whatnot). This is not an article that is read or edited a lot - it only gets about ten hits a day. Thanks btw for your edits. It made me check the article again and do some improving, such as the info box, new picture, copyediting and error corrections. The original editor had used a source (seemed reliable) that had some inaccurate info. Cheers. BC  talk to me 19:44, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

(Schlusselmensch (talk) 05:47, 12 February 2011 (UTC))

You're right about a lot of written stuff being patent nonsense. I've found a lot of errors in some "reliable sources". Wikipedia likes to see proof in writing even if sources are innaccurate, which I think is a shortcoming. This leads to the perpetuation of misinformation. But in this case, as you can see, I added the information back into the article. And I think we're safe with the "reliability factor".  BC  talk to me 05:53, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll see if I can't send you a good image of an RK shoulder flash and you can decide if you'd like to place it in the article. Or do you already have a good image or an actual flash? I wouldn't be surprised if you get a few contacts as a result of the PD reference as it is stuff like this that stirs the fond memories of former servicemen and women. Can you remember when we had an Air Force and not only that, could equal or best anyone in a contest of flying skill? Those were the days. But then again, there's be a fatal crash or two a month as well. My email is kgbeckman (at) if you'd care to drop me a line.

List of pastoral visits of Pope John Paul II outside Italy

Thanks for the reversion on this article. Recently various individuals have added incorrect information. First it was San Diego, then Sierre Leone, and now Hong Kong. Pope John Paul II never visited any of those places. I went over this article awhile back and compared it to the Vatican website (given as the first citation) and it is complete "as is". Thanks again for catching the change.

Best regards, Mtminchi08 (talk) 01:49, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

No problems. I too went over the Vatican list as well, hence the change. The edit I reverted was done by a vandal, which was a clue to the "correctness" of his edit. He has since been blocked. Regards. BC  talk to me 06:27, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

421 Squadron

Brian, where do I get information about 421 that is not already written somewhere? my father flew with 421 and I am interested in updating this page. thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:41, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I too am familiar with 421, since that squadron flew out of the base we lived at for four years. I also want to update it, but just haven't had the time. The web site you copy/pasted to Wikipedia is a good place to start, there is also info on the DND website. Try a Google search as well. There are lots of books that also have relevant squadron info. Just make sure that the information is not just copied. Write it in your own words using these websites or other references as just information sources. Plagiarism is frowned upon by Wikipedia. Wikipedia is just a compendium of information that is already written down somewhere such as a web site, book, journal, etc., but the these information sources must be as reputable/reliable as possible. Original research is not permitted. If you are interested in contributing to Wikipedia, I would set up an account and log in with your username. That way your i.p. cannot be traced (e.g. it seems you are in the Fort Lauderdale area in Florida), and it makes it a lot easier to trace your edits or to get help. For more info about contributing to Wikipedia, go to wp:welcome. Let me know if you need more help. Regards.  BC  talk to me 18:55, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Brian, if you search for 421 squadron you get the american version, is there a way to have them change their page title to USAF 421... so that we can do RCAF 421...? it seems they have hijacked 421 fighter squadron when in fact there is more out there than the american 421 — Preceding unsigned comment added by David Lelievre (talkcontribs) 14:06, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

David, Glad you are now logging in with a username. I did a quick Google search, and they all came up as 421 Squadron RCAF (at least on the first page). I did a Wikipedia search and the first hit was the RCAF Squadron. So, I don't think the title is a big issue. Also, the RCAF squadrons and USAF (fighter) squadrons have a particular way of being named in Wikipedia, so changing titles will cause great anxiety among editors. Major changes like that require lots of discussion and getting concensus, not to mention being a lot of work. The objective is consistency among names. Changing the names of the RCAF squadrons to their current non-RCAF names has been discussed for instance, but led to some heated discussions simply because of the consistency issue. So, I wouldn't concern myself with renaming. BTW, be sure to sign your comments on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your IP address (or username if you're logged in) and the date. Regards.  BC  talk to me 17:15, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I did a search at the top and it did list 421 rcaf first, maybe the sort is traffic related or whatnot. thanks for the advice, I am working on some text as a starting point, I am sure when I paste it you will get a chance to review it as rapidly as the last time I tried! haha thanks for the help!!! David Lelievre (talk) 17:35, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

I would check out some of the other squadron articles to get the feel of how to write it. For instance, they all have a lead paragraph or two or three, and sections. Also, make sure you have a reference section. References and citations are important. And be careful about how you word your entry; copying isn't allowed. Best of luck. BC  talk to me 18:55, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Help for "Lamp of the Brotherhood" for Newbie

Hi Brian,

I am a Newbie on Wiki and could use some help. You seem to be an expert. When I started the project, I did not envision it as a lifetime learning project! Please review my new article.

I could not get formatting right for citation re 84 Lamps.

Also. I have photos from the 50s and 60s of the Pope blessing a Lamp, Rome meeting, Mother carrying lamps, etc. They are from AVM Guthrie's album. He is deceased, as are probably the photographers. How do I get them uploaded past the draconian Wiki copyright requirements?

Thanking you in advance, Richard Richmark40 (talk) 01:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

BTW I can give you contact info for Wayne MacLellan, former Pink Dink, if you need it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richmark40 (talkcontribs) 17:52, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Not really an expert, but I can hold my own. I reviewed the article and did some fixing. It still needs work; I'm sure that others will add their input (I put a cleanup tag on it so others will be directed to the article. About the pictures...Wikipedia is strict about image usage and there is no way to get them past the "draconian copyright requirements". There are good reasons for this (mostly legal). If you do upload pictures, I would do it through Wikimedia Commons. Rules about copyright and licensing are here: licensing. Uploading is tricky and if you don't cover all your bases, the images will be quickly removed. Welcome to Wikipedia and I hope you stick around. Cheers.  BC  talk to me

Hi Brian, Thanks for fixing, and reviewing my article. It was a great help, and should facilitate my quest for answers.Richard Richmark40 (talk) 18:44, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. BC  talk to me 21:04, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Brian, I need help once again. The title should be: "Lamp of Brotherhood" not "Lamp of the the Brotherhood.: How can this be changed? Thanks Richmark40 Richmark40 (talk) 01:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Brian, Thanks for your help with the title. I added a ref to the Vancouver Sun to support "focal point" as per your suggestion. Hopefully the article will generate some answers. Thanks Richard Richmark40 (talk) 22:38, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Richard, No problem. I should point out that Wikipedia articles are not meant to "generate answers", because such a purpose isn't encyclopedic. Any unencyclopedic content will be removed. Wikipedia is just a source of information - a compendium of information that already exists in reputablel/verifiable written sources. There are no other reasons for its existence. BC  talk to me 23:14, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Section Deletion

Is there a reason you removed my section on filmmaking significance on the Canon 7d article? If not, I will reinstate it. Theelephantsays (talk) 20:24, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I removed a totally unrefererenced/uncited assertion. Feel free to add it back it if you can supply the references. Claims such as "great significance in the independent film making world" need to be cited. See wp:Citing sources.- BC  talk to me 21:18, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I am very new to wikipedia and confused as to how to add citations, if I provide the urls can you add them?Theelephantsays (talk) 00:53, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Yup, can do. Just give me the URLs. BTW, welcome to Wikipedia. Cheers. BC  talk to me 01:24, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Can print sources such as a magazine be cited on Wikipedia? Theelephantsays (talk) 23:56, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

As wp:sources outlines: Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Sources should directly support the material presented in an article and should be appropriate to the claims made. Material used should come from respected mainstream publications. Other reliable sources include university-level textbooks, books published by respected publishing houses, magazines, journals, and mainstream newspapers. So, the way I read it, as long as the magazine is reputable, reliable, and "respected mainstream", it can be used. I've used magazines as sources. Just make sure the magazine is cited properly. I include magazine name, article name, author, page numbers, date of publication, ISSN number. I would read over wp:cite to get the gist of how to do it.  BC  talk to me 06:23, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


There is no need to cite the fact that Alberta is the second most populous province in Western Canada. This fact is so well-known that it would be almost as silly as offering a citation for the fact that Alberta is a province of Canada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:41, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually, this is not a well-known fact. And the change was not necessary. Also, how do you define "western Canada". You made a change to a significant fact that has been in the article for while. If you're going to make such a change, be sure to explain why you're changing it (e.g. in the edit summary box). The best way to explain your change, however, is to provide a source. Your comment could have been "made change to information - see source". A comment such as "made change to information because this is a well-known fact" doesn't cut it. This would be considered wp:OR.  BC  talk to me 23:48, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Article about Kingston Pen.

Thanks for correcting me (Kingston Penitentiary) on the "inmates" vs. "convicts." I religiously followed the wording in the articles that I referenced from 1954. They said "convicts" in both articles. Maybe they were not as politically correct in those days. I also grew up in the 50's and "convicts" was quite common then. It just shows that times have changed. Sorry for not updating the language to today's norms. My bad :-( --Skol fir (talk) 02:48, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

I believe the term "convicts" still has a place in historical articles, such as Castle Hill convict rebellion where it even links to Convicts in Australia. That is either used to describe the current term at the time, or it may just be a British thing. You might know that kids who grew up in Canada in the 50's and 60's were subjected to a lot of "British" influence in school. We sang "God Save the Queen" instead of "O Canada." There were pictures of the monarch and Prince Philip on the walls of the classrooms. Maybe that explains my tilt in language. I was born in Canada, but raised a "Brit." That's funny, since my parents were both German. :-) --Skol fir (talk) 03:01, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi, no problem. "Convicts", although technically not wrong, is a term that fell out of favour years ago. Obviously, if quotes are made from older references that use that word, then the word should still be used. The term "inmate" was used elsewhere in the article, so it's a good idea to consistently use that term. My father worked at Kingston Pen for many years (and was working at the time of the 1971 riot). The prison population was never referred to as convicts; they were always inmates. I think it's safe to say it is indeed a euphemism that was meant to tone down the negative connotations of "convict". And, you're right, it is a politically correct term. I agree that historical articles that you listed should use "convict" since that's what the prisoners were called. I doubt the word "inmate" even existed during those times. BTW, I remember singing "God Save the Queen" and I remember those pictures of the Queen on the wall. We also sang "Rule Britannia" in music class in elementary school. Things sure have changed over the years. Regards.  BC  talk to me 05:07, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

F/A-18 accidents section edits

Why are you and other moderators incorrectly reverting changes to this section? Specifically, the same squadron reference IS supported by the cited references for both accidents. Are you looking for language in the references themselves that state they 'are the same squadron'? The squadron designation is clearly stated in references to both accidents and it IS the same. Are you implying that this constitutes drawing an unsupported conclusion? ( (talk) 01:13, 16 April 2011 (UTC))

The fact that they belong to the same squadron should actually be in one of the citations; we shouldn't have to read all the references and come to that conclusion. Perhaps it should be explained as a cited note. Also, this whole incident isn't particularly notable. Military aircraft crashes happen all the time; we can't list every crash involving a particular aircraft in Wikipedia. BC  talk to me 21:32, 16 April 2011 (UTC)