User talk:Brycehughes

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Hello, Brycehughes, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Kürbis () 12:26, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks --Brycehughes (talk) 01:19, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 8[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Robert D. Atkinson, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Bush administration (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Thanks robot! --Brycehughes (talk) 17:51, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating CIA University, Brycehughes!

Wikipedia editor Matty.007 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Looks good!

To reply, leave a comment on Matty.007's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Thanks. That was fast. Brycehughes (talk) 09:38, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

There is a special page for monitoring newly created pages, so we can weed out the rubbish, and improve the good stuff. The page is

Any questions, just ask on my talk page. Matty.007 12:07, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I know. Sometimes I scroll through it for entertainment. Brycehughes (talk) 16:43, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry gentlemen. It is necessary to state.[edit]

With barely managed to convince the impurity that I am not Russian Spion. Now the Arabs Bej begin to point the finger at the U.S. as the Spion. Such a stink! It is impossible to use the Internet! The general attitude to US America is negative (you znaeete how much, yes). I neimeyu with US cyanide nothing obshego. Bolle of satericheskie wrote poems on the resident and the President. For that he was punished and can `t be US agent. And, generally 2 meters it is not funny. I'm an agent of King Albert II. (Secretly watching.)Sanks. (talk) 09:12, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I understand. Brycehughes (talk) 15:50, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Help desk[edit]

I've answered your question at the help desk :) Charmlet (talk) 19:30, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Brycehughes (talk) 22:13, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

June 2013[edit]

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Kunia Regional SIGINT Operations Center may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
  • revealing the existence of NSA [[mass surveillance]] programs, including the top secret [[PRISM (surveillance program|PRISM]] surveillance program.<ref name=free_beacon>{{cite news |last=Gertz |

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 20:37, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Kitten (06) by Ron.jpg

Thanks for adding the info at The Delineator.

GeorgeLouis (talk) 05:39, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! -Brycehughes (talk) 05:45, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Crime in Oakland, California[edit]

Hello Bryce, and thank you for your work on the Crime in Oakland page. As a criminal researcher and analyst, I am increasingly convinced that criminologist Jeremy Wilson is correct in his findings which dispute the assertion, implicit in the entire section of the article which deals with police staffing levels, that police staffing should be decided by a simple "per-capita" approach. When the section (as revised by yourself) stated that "official estimates" are that Oakland needs 1,100 police officers, it cited a fringe political activist by the name of Pine who is using an acronym, ORPN, to put forward a number based on completely imaginary factors. Please take a look at Wilson's interview here:

Thank you! Falco528 (talk) 08:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi Falco, thank you for talking this out! I responded to this on the Crime in Oakland, California, talk page. Let's follow WP:BRD. Please do not make your changes again until we come to a consensus. (Other editors may want to join the discussion.) Thanks again. Brycehughes (talk) 15:45, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Kitten (06) by Ron.jpg

Thanks right back :)

Harsesus (talk) 04:43, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Kitten (06) by Ron.jpg

Thanks for fixing a lot of the Certified B Corp page! It looks so much better!

Lelepanne (talk) 22:41, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Brycehughes (talk) 23:23, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Obama Timelines[edit]

I agree. The recent good faith changes are subjective. ```Buster Seven Talk 19:34, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Break in Roman's infobox[edit]

Why do you continue to put an extra break in the years portion of Greg Roman's infobox? When you do that the years do not matchup correctly with the coaching positions to their right.

NT1952 (talk) 22:39, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

What browser are you using? That's what it looks like you're doing for me. Brycehughes (talk) 22:41, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
Should work for everyone now. Brycehughes (talk) 23:03, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Oakland Police/ORPN[edit]

Brycehughes, I understand that you want the article to remain as it was before I researched ORPN and its allegations (1,100 figure, "half a police department," etc. The fact is that ORPN is an acronym taken by one man who is a former (failed) political candidate in the city. By removing my original research which places ORPN's ideas in context, you are again obscuring the source of these quotes and removing much more balanced and objective data. Please understand that this issue matters, that the highest level criminologists at top universities do not agree as to the statistical relationship between police staffing and crime rates, and, most importantly, that these non-cited estimates belong to a former political candidate who does not cite any reputable sources. I will revert the article to my August 31 balanced version unless you can provide alternative evidence that supports ORPN's conclusions. Thank You.


No, don't do that. We need to come to a consensus. Take it to the article's talk page. There's a discussion there. Brycehughes (talk) 18:58, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


Thank You. Done.

My edits[edit]

I should've left an edit summary, and I will next time. His edit was just a change of words - it was well worded to begin with, so I don't understand why he would even reword it in such a way as he did. Plus that particular article is nominated for GA status and I believe should be left alone for now until a reviewer takes on the challenge. --DendroNaja (talk) 20:57, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Brycehughes (talk) 21:05, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Addicted to Noise[edit]

Hi Bryce, Your addition to the Addicted To Noise page on Oct 18 is great. I'm really pleased. Regarding my addition last night. If you go to this page: and you will see a listing for an article by William Gibson and if you click on 1995 (upper left) and scroll down and link on issue # 1.12 (the Frank Kozik story) and then scroll to the bottom and click on the 3rd icon from the right (contents) you will see articles and columns for that issue. You'll see that there were pieces by Greil Marcus, Dave Marsh, David Was, Billy Altman, Roy Trakin, R. Meltzer and other name critics. Then if you click on 44.1 (it's in the contents) you will get a page of album review links with reviews by Deborah Frost, Chris Morris and others. If you go to issue 1.09 and get to the table of contenst and click on staff you'll see Lenny Kaye and some of the other writers. If you go to issue 2.09 and click on the table of congtenst link on the bottom of one of the articles and then in the hype section click on staff you will see Joey Ramone listed as a contributor. I hope that provides what you need. Thanks, Neumu1 (talk) 16:26, 20 October 2013 (UTC) Neumu1 (talk) 04:22, 21 October 2013 (UTC) Michael

Hi, I responded on the article's talk page. Brycehughes (talk) 05:59, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks User:Brycehughes[edit]

Truly appreciate your help, when does a discussion on the Roger W. Jones Award for Executive Leadership close? WashD101 (talk) 01:50, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

@WashD101: Basically, once they reach a "consensus." It's a royal pain in the rear and can take forever. Sorry about that. Honestly though, I don't have a lot of experience with extended consensus building, so I'm probably not the best person to ask. There's some reading material here, but assuming you can't be bothered reading all that, you can pose the question to WP:HELPDESK or WP:TEAHOUSE – they're good at answering. Anyway, I hope this doesn't discourage you from editing, because judging by Roger W. Jones, you're very good at it! Brycehughes (talk) 05:03, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks again Brycehughes, here's to ideally trying to build extended consensus since it seems like it shouldn't be that hard a effort to reach some compromise on? Wishing you a great day! WashD101 (talk) 03:06, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
@WashD101: For now, I'd say just WP:CHILL. It'll work itself out, and it'll either go the way you want or it won't. Maybe work on something else that interests you? In any case, it's best not to expect a quick resolution to anything around here... and, personally, I find the protracted back-and-forth discussions exhausting! Save your energy for the fun stuff like editing, I say. Best of luck, Brycehughes (talk) 06:29, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Ways to improve List of botanical gardens and arboretums in Hawaii[edit]

Hi, I'm Sulfurboy. Brycehughes, thanks for creating List of botanical gardens and arboretums in Hawaii!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. 2

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. Sulfurboy (talk) 02:36, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

@Sulfurboy: Thanks but it's a split, so I'm probably not going to bother. Feel free to re-merge if you think it's best. Brycehughes (talk) 04:46, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Your edit to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents[edit]

Hi Bryce. I've taken care of your ANI request, but in the future please don't post edits needing suppression on public pages such as ANI (there's actually a giant red box saying that that opens when you edit ANI, but a lot of people don't notice it). If you come across edits containing private information in the future, please direct them straight to the Oversight Team, privately, via email or IRC. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 18:01, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

@Fluffernutter: Thanks. Then I assume the link in the second paragraph at Wikipedia:Personal information needs to be changed from WP:ANI, correct? Brycehughes (talk) 18:12, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Huh. I've never seen that essay (essays aren't policy, for what that's worth) before. It's definitely not reflective of how things are done, in more ways than one. Do you mind if I ask how you came across that page in the process of hunting up what to do? I might need to go correct some backlinks. ETA: I notified the oversight team that we had an essay giving bad information, and we've redirected it now to a page that gives correct info. Hopefully this helps prevents crossed wires in the future! A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 18:21, 23 January 2014 (UTC) updated 18:36, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
@Fluffernutter: It was the second link for me in this Google search. I know it's not policy, but figured it was sufficient for simply telling me where to go. Brycehughes (talk) 18:47, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Ok, the redirect should take care of google results, I think. Thanks! A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 19:19, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
@Fluffernutter: One more thing: I notice the "Are you in the right place?" at the top of WP:ANI defaults to hidden. Y'all might want to change its default to show. Brycehughes (talk) 21:44, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Alta Vista Gardens[edit]

Hi Brycehughes,

What do you have against Alta Vista Botanical Gardens? The Wikipedia Page for AVBG is woefully slim and every time I try to flesh it out, you whack it back to nothing with no explanation. This is not an insubstantial project. It has the largest collection of public Art inside the City of Vista, is operated by an all volunteer staff, is funded by membership and donations and admission is virtually free ($2). I only posted stuff that I own the copyright to and I have already supplied a release to Wikipedia back in 2009. Please respond. Feldmoves.

@Feldmoves: Oh, please. You think I have something against a garden? I have something against your edits. I responded on the article's talk page. Brycehughes (talk) 03:20, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

IBM BLU Acceleration[edit]

Hi Bryce,

I wanted to address your comment about my article on IBM BLU Acceleration - Primary contributor appears closely affiliated with organization "International DB2 User's Group"

Although I have presented at numerous "International DB2 User's Group" conferences, I have never held any position in that organization, nor have I served on any of that organization's committees. Back in 1991, I began using DB2 for Linux, UNIX, and Windows and over the years, I have become a subject matter expert on DB2 and have written numerous articles and 22 books on this relational database product. Because of this, I am frequently asked to present at IDUG conferences, and only do so when my employer approves of my participation.

Hope this helps clear things up.

Roger.e.sanders (talk)Roger E. Sanders

@Roger.e.sanders: Hi Roger. Fair enough. I've removed the COI tag. Thank you for reaching out. Brycehughes (talk) 16:49, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Salinas, California[edit]

Information icon Hello, I'm A.Minkowiski. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks!A.Minkowiski (talk) 15:12, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

@A.Minkowiski: Yes, you totally made a mistake. Please be more careful. Also, please add a section heading when editing other peoples' talk pages. Thank you. Brycehughes (talk) 15:16, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, you are welcome A.Minkowiski (talk) 15:24, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Explosion and fire[edit]

Hi Bryce - I don't think that including both explosion and fire in the section headings at Chevron Richmond Refinery is redundant. In both instances, there were both significant explosions and a significant fire. Explosions are different than fires, and both are significant. I'll suggest to Jem (they are a student of mine or I would add it myself - think I'll be seeing them later today,) that they should include info explicitly pointing out that there were significant explosions and a significant fire in both instances. Best, Kevin Gorman (talk) 10:43, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

@Kevin Gorman: Ok, no biggie. Thanks. Brycehughes (talk) 15:52, 30 April 2014 (UTC)


Hi Bryce,

I have seen your work on Wikipedia and your copy-editing skills are spot on and very accurate. I would like to ask you if you could make edits to the page of Expedia (, as there is some information missing from the page. Would you be willing to make edits to the page so that it's complete? The main areas that I think needs more information are the infobox on the top right, and external links.

To be specific, I think the infobox at top right needs more information, and fields more in line with other global travel brands like, or and The infobox also needs to change URLs to be within 'website' (at the bottom) rather than 'Web address' (at the top), and it needs to include links to Expedia ccTLD: US, CA, UK, AU & NZ (in that order) in the same shape as In regards to external Links, I think it should link to Expedia ccTLD in the same shape as with the same links as on #3.

Let me know, I would highly appreciate your assistance in this matter.

Erexkiss (talk) 12:33, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Erexkiss. While I appreciate the flattery, I am not willing to make those edits. Best of luck, Brycehughes (talk) 15:22, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Reversion Hires.png The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
Thanks for being vigulent on the "list of mountain lion attacks" page, I find that someone keeps trying to add stories that last any testability, reference, or citations, and I'm glad to see you're in there keeping that page clean of nonsense. Thanks! Damotclese (talk) 15:30, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! Brycehughes (talk) 18:56, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

"Amir" has Persian meaning too.[edit]

I added that "Amir" has Persian meaning too and my My source is Persian Wikipedia , if your Persian is good enough go check it: @Brycehughes

Salinas, California[edit]

Hello - I made the changes surrounding lettuce on the Salinas page, I was attempting to remedy the difference between the page and the Salinas page. China clearly produces most of the worlds lettuce. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

@ Ok, I removed the economy info from the Salinas page, because it was totally unsourced, so who knows what the truth is. Thanks for reaching out. Brycehughes (talk) 22:34, 29 August 2014 (UTC)


What does "cu" stand for in an edit description? —Stepheng3 (talk) 17:24, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Clean up. Brycehughes (talk) 18:07, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
ktyvm —Stepheng3 (talk) 00:52, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
haha :) Brycehughes (talk) 06:37, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


It would help to be a bit more constructive instead of just deleting stuff. Patience also helps - ther eis more to come on the OMP. thanks! Peteruetz (talk) 15:53, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

It would help if you added "there is more to come" or "there is more to come, don't delete this" to your edit summary then. Brycehughes (talk) 16:36, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


Please see my response to your comments on my talk page. Asaduzaman (talk) 23:56, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Young cats.jpg


Liuy360 (talk) 16:23, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! Brycehughes (talk) 16:35, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Seven Oaks Dam[edit]

It's great that you were able to supply more accurate coordinates for the dam. Please cite your source. —Stepheng3 (talk) 17:16, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Disagree. Revert if you think it best. Brycehughes (talk) 17:31, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Chief Innovation Officer[edit]

Hi, it wasn't an error if I edited the article on the CINO because I'm in college and I have a coursework in witch I have to improve this article. Therefore, these days there will be some changes on this page. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Axelamer (talkcontribs)

Hi, I reverted your edit because you deleted the article's list of references and did not explain why. I assume you didn't mean to do this. Editing for the first time can be a bit confusing. It was for me. You should check out WP:TUTORIAL and WP:INTREF, which cover the basics. Brycehughes (talk) 05:38, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Why always deleting my work on Chief Innovation Officer?[edit]

Hi, please stop deleting my work on Chief Innovation Officer, I think it is way more complete than the previous one and I have to edit it for a coursework so please stop or tell me if you want me to change something but it is becoming very annoying. Thanks

Slavery in Mauritania[edit]

This is in regards to the line I have changed a couple of time. My only problem with the line is that it portrays itself as a fact, when it is not even close. It is just one man's personal opinion, when in fact the issue is widely debated in the Islamic world. When I edited it with the Qur'an as source, I didn't know Wiki prefers secondary sources, so I'm not opposed to leaving the current sourcing alone, as long as we provide some indication that it is only one man's opinion. I propose something like:

Pro Slavery interpretation of Islamic texts, which not everyone agrees with.

Or something along those lines.

I hope this is the right place for this. Let me know your thoughts

Mark Beronte (talk) 00:40, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

@Mark Beronte: Hi Mark, thanks for reaching out. What if we simply deleted the sentence? (Re right place: usually better to do this on the articles's talk page, but no biggie.) Brycehughes (talk) 19:36, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
@Brycehughes: Hi Bryce. Again I am a bit new to this so I hope I am replying to your post correctly, but it certainly doesn't seem correct to have to edit a page rather than hitting some kind of reply button, but that doesn't seem to be available so here I am. Anyway if I am going to be doing this more, I should go and read up on all the Wiki documents, which I will do tomorrow. I also believe I left a post on the article talk page as well, but perhaps I did something wrong there.
Anyway, now on to the topic at hand. Although deletion might make it better than it is now, it would also make the article highly inaccurate to not mention the Islamic texts when describing why the practice persists. Of course both the Imams and regular people use the Qur'an to justify their positions, and in fact it is probably one of the most significant reasons slavery still does persist. When you believe you have an infallible text from the creator of the universe, that accepts slavery as just a fact of life, it might very well influence your view of the subject. Can you think of a better way to simply put into words the idea that a pro slavery interpretation of the Islamic texts is a significant reason slavery persists, while being true the source, and indicating there are people who claim this interpretation is not correct? (talk) 22:27, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
@Mark Beronte: Hi, it doesn't matter what you or I can put into words; it matters whether we can find a reliable secondary source that supports the assertion. Do you have/can you find a reliable secondary source on this? (I.e. contra the New Yorker article) Brycehughes (talk) 20:07, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

ETC, ETC Group disambiguation[edit]

If you were involved in clearing up the ETC disambiguation page - thanks. Could you help me understand how ETC qualifies as "important or significant" more than any other company or organization? Please understand that my question is staight forward. ETC Group (Energy efficiency consultants) could also qualify as important or significant - for that matter many more companies could if you ask me. Could you just explain to me why you left them in the improved ETC disambiguation page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by IsoFocus (talkcontribs) 02:34, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

@IsoFocus: I don't know, because I haven't looked at the ETC Group article, nor am I familiar with the company. In general, Wikipedia articles must be "notable." You can find the general notability guidelines here and the guidelines for companies here. Brycehughes (talk) 03:18, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Template:Underground laboratories[edit]

Just wondering about your recent edits:

  • (Minor) Yes, the strikethrough is ugly, but since Wikipedia already deems the Kolar Gold Fields experiments notable enough to have an article, and I agree that it meets the criteria, it seems deserving of a place on the list. But I wanted some way to mark it as "of historical interest only". Any suggestions?
  • (Major) As the article itself notes, there are two common short names used: LSM and Fréjus. When the navbox was first created, only the Fréjus Road Tunnel article existed, so that's what got linked, with a redlink to LSM to prod someone to write one. Thank you for creating a dedicated LSM article, but do you think it's worth titling the link LSM/Fréjus or otherwise leaving the "Fréjus"? I just thought it would help someone reading a source document in the field.
    • The contrary argument is that no other lab gets such a long name in a space-restricted navbox.

I'm not sure if I object to your edits, but could you explain them at greater length? Thank you! (talk) 19:18, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Okay, sorry, I got impatient and reverted the first change and added LSM/Fréjus as I suggested in the second. I'm still open to discussion, however; my problem is that I don't understand your reasons, not that I think they're bad. (talk) 19:24, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@ You don't need to convey that it is of historical interest only in a navbox. A reader can learn that as soon as they click the link. Re the other, consistency. Again, we don't need to convey information like multiple names in a navbox; that's what articles are for. Brycehughes (talk) 03:19, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Well, we don't need to include the country, depth, or access method, either; that's also behind the link. The issue is the ratio of usefulness to space. The information chosen to include are the primary figures of merit for underground laboratories. As a text style change is very compact, it seemed worth including in the list. I've seen indexes in books that use bold to indicate "primary reference to subject" and italics to indicate "brief mention". (Because the details are linked, it's not necessary to have the abbreviations be unambiguous to 100% of readers; as long as it's useful to a good fraction.)
As for multiple names, the idea is that the navbox is an index, and sometimes you list alternate names in an index. In various papers, conference presentations, etc. the site is referred to either as "LSM" or "Fréjus", with no consistency. Listing both lets someone who saw/heard a reference find it. As well as makes it clear that they're the same thing.
"Not worth the space" discussions are worth having. Currently, the sites take up two lines on most landscape displays, three if the window is more than 720 pixels wide. That seems reasonably compact. If it's getting too cluttered, I agree with stripping it down.
But the biggest contribution to keeping it small is the choice of what not to include, described in the template documentation.
But does it really seem too big? (talk) 07:49, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
@ We're debating two things here. Let's address them separately.
1) Is the strikethrough worth its admitted aesthetic trade-off for the sake of conveying to the reader that this is no longer an active site? I'd argue, no. We as those that care about the navbox can decide whether or not this site is worth retaining in the navbox. If it is, then it is just as worthy of a non-strikethrough mention as any other item in the navbox. You disagree. I'd love to find some compromise here, but I'm afraid this one is either/or. If it's worth retaining, why is the status of the site so necessary to convey in the navbox?
2) Apparently the LSM site is also known is Fréjus. Wouldn't those who are confused (assuming this would happen) and looking for a laboratory named Fréjus be just as well served by typing the word "Frejus" into the search box and then being presented with either a hatnote referencing the laboratory at Fréjus or by a disambiguation page at Fréjus? (The former should probably happen anyway.)
--Brycehughes (talk) 04:30, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
1) What do you mean either/or? I haven't even figured out if your objections to distinguishing Kolar as closed extend to distinguishing INO as incomplete. Do you object to any distinction, or is it just that strikeout is too ugly/illegible? If it's the latter, there are other alternatives. Unbuilt and closed could be combined into a "not operational" category designated by italics, or we could use parentheses, or many other alternatives. It seems that there are a lot more than two options here, if I just understood the issues.
The other option that can be discussed is whether it's worth listing Kolar at all. As mentioned at the end of the template documentation, the inclusion criteria themselves are subject to revision. (I just request that anyone changing them update the documentation to explain the new rules. That was one of my big objections to your initial edit: the docs still said "closed labs struck out"; if you want to make a change, please change both.)
Reasons for inclusion are a combination of real-world significance and "does Wikipedia already have an article to link to?" Because there is a Particle experiments at Kolar Gold Fields article, and the experiments were historically significant, that seemed enough points to make the list.
2) There seems to be a major communication problem between us on this subject. You keep pointing out alternatives like the search box, and I'm Not Getting It. It's certainly true that a mention in the navbox isn't necessary, but I fail to see how that constitutes any sort of argument. If all we cared about was necessity, we'd delete all navboxes everywhere. And redirect pages. The raison d'etre of a navbox is not necessity but convenience: to provide a shortcut via a topic-specific index.
"Wouldn't those who are confused (assuming this would happen) and looking for a laboratory named Fréjus be just as well served by typing the word "Frejus" into the search box" If they're looking up a specific reference that's right in front of them, it would be almost as convenient. But the point of a navbox is browseability: it's a menu that the reader gets to choose from. If they're looking at a list of all the important underground laboratories, they can say "which lab was it that Fred mentioned in that talk?" or "oh yeah, I've heard of that." For an index, completeness is a virtue. The hard part (and what the template documentation spends time discussing) is what to exclude so it doesn't get out of hand.
The question is whether the synonym "Fréjus" deserves a listing in a space-constrained quick reference. I certainly agree it's borderline. Why does that one lab get a second listing, and not SURF's other names DUSEL and Homestake? The reasons boil down to:
  • It appears that "Fréjus" is in ongoing use; I keep seeing new references to that name. On the other hand, everyone seems to agree that Homestake and DUSEL are historical names and aren't using them in current papers and presentations.
  • In fact, based on frequency of use, I'd consider deleting "LSM" and keeping "Fréjus". The list already isn't official names, it's most common abbreviation. Thus, "LSM" but "Canfranc" and many other choices. (More research required before making such a decision, of course.)
  • But the official name has some preference. Unfortunately, it requires two entries because there's no obvious connection between "LSM" and "Fréjus". "Kamioka" and "Kamiokande" are pretty obviously related. "Gran Sasso" can be found under the only "GS" in the list (and most browsers provide mouse-over text that clarifies it further).
  • On a bang-per-buck (which in this case means usefulness-per-pixel) basis, "/Fréjus" is short. If I wasn't worried about space, I'd also include "DUSEL", "Gran Sasso" and "Homestake". But they're larger and less useful, thus don't make the cut.
Now, I'm very willing to discuss that balance between usefulness and clutter, but if we can't agree that we're discussing usefulness, I don't know where to start. "Not necessary" is not a discussion I know how to have.
2a) An upcoming issue is whether the expansion of Yangyang, called CUNPA, deserves an alias listing.
3) I almost think a Fréjus (disambiguation) page is worth it. As a hatnote, it is getting a bit chunky. Here's the smallest I can manage:
This article is about the region in France. Also named Fréjus are a nearby mountain peak and mountain pass, the rail and road tunnels under them, and an underground laboratory in the tunnel. (talk) 06:41, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
@ Woah, that was long :)
1) You're right. It's not either/or. How about italics? Happy to change the docs, but let's agree first.
2) I'd simply say that, were a reader looking for "Fréjus", then we can rest assured that they're relatively informed about particle laboratories, and thus could easily deduce that the sole laboratory in France was what they were looking for. If not, then search box (and we should make that easier for them, agree, although I certainly wouldn't do the fr links in the hatnote). So my proposal is—such that we have a sexy, uncluttered navbox—simply have LSM, and then have either a good hatnote at Fréjus or a disambig page. I'm borderline on this one too, so if you feel that strongly the other way, I'll give in.
3) I'm with you on the disambig page. As soon as we agree on something here, I'll make one (if you haven't already).
By the way, you should think about making an account. You obviously care about this shit. Life's a bit easier on WP when you sign up; people don't automatically treat you with suspicion. In any case, thanks for your edits.
--Brycehughes (talk) 03:16, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1) You're killing me here. Your response implies that I managed to guess right, but I'm still guessing; I still haven't seen a clear statement of your rationale. As all this verbiage hopefully makes clear, it's not immediately obvious. Currently my best guess is:

"My personal, subjective aesthetic opinion is that strikeout is too ugly to live."

... okay, and my personal subjective aesthetic opinion is that it's a little bit ugly, and the information conveyed is worth it. If there are no non-subjective aspects we can discuss, I'd write it up for the talk page and ask for a WP:3O. (If you want other uses, see Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Strikethrough?namespace=0)
2) "the sole laboratory in France was what they were looking for" Now that is a good argument! For some reason, I kept thinking Canfranc was in France, but no, it's only close. And there are two 500m deep radioactive waste disposal projects: Meuse/Haute Marne Underground Research Laboratory and one at Bure. If I just wanted to save space, converting m of water to km of water would allow stripping "00" from every entry (and adding a decimal place).
3) If you want to make a disambig page, please go right ahead. Yes, the :fr: link in the example hatnote is not proper, but I wanted to include it somehow, as I suspect the mountain is actually what everything else is named after! (Mountain names pass, pass names region that trades through pass.)

Right now, it's late and I'm tired and I'm worried that I've put too much energy into this discussion to stand back and be objective. I'm going to sleep on it for a bit, and maybe submit the whole thing for a 3O this weekend.

I give up. Please don't post userboxes on my talk page. All the best, Brycehughes (talk) 22:29, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
Please don't post userboxes on my talk page. Oops! Was that improper? It was just a quote from the top of my talk page, nothing more. If there was some additional consequence, I apologize (although I'd be curious what it might be.) (talk) 23:30, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
No biggie. I'm just tired of this conversation. Brycehughes (talk) 01:58, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
I typed up a (hopefully fair) summary of the discussion on the talk page and asked for a WP:3O. I'll give it a few days or a week to collect opinions.
"This is hopefully an easy one. It's not about content, but appearance/presentation, and a tie-breaker or three are needed to settle "artistic differences". The discussion isn't particularly acrimonious, but both parties are sick of it, yet too stubborn to concede out of pure illegitimi carborundum." (talk) 06:43, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.[edit]


This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The thread is "Melbourne". Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! Scorch (talk | ctrb) 10:50, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

I honestly can't recall anything about this. Brycehughes (talk) 04:05, 30 July 2015 (UTC)


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Thanks! Brycehughes (talk) 22:17, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

REverts[edit] (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has been blocked (under a large number of IPs) since 2012, or maybe 2011. See User:Arthur Rubin/IP list for some of the analysis. If you consider the edit constructive, you are welcome to re-insert. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:11, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@Arthur Rubin: Fair enough. Thanks. Brycehughes (talk) 16:17, 11 September 2015 (UTC)


Hi! About this edit the company does use the acronym JKL on its website, so I'll add the acronym to the article and restore the link WhisperToMe (talk) 04:50, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: Sure. Sorry, lazy late night. Brycehughes (talk) 04:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

PPU and Transportation (disambiguation)[edit]

Hello Brycehughes, you reverted my above sorting with the question "Why". I ask "Why not"? My alphabetical sorting (as noted in my edit) is correct! Regards -- Sweepy (talk) 23:24, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

@Sweepy: Per MOS:DABORDER it is not correct. Brycehughes (talk) 23:26, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
Please tell me the exact rule for my "wrong" sorting. Thanks -- Sweepy (talk) 23:34, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello once more. Your revert is in my eyes not o.k. Please tell me the exact rule as at PPU, too, for my correct sorting. Thanks -- Sweepy (talk) 23:37, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
@Sweepy: #3. Brycehughes (talk) 23:40, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
O.k., and all that I've done correctly...Regards -- Sweepy (talk) 00:12, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
@Sweepy: No. You are sorting alphabetically, which is not correct. Brycehughes (talk) 00:20, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
In the rule #3 (as shown above) the same I did correctly! -- Sweepy (talk) 00:23, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
@Sweepy: No. Where does #3 say you should sort alphabetically? Brycehughes (talk) 00:27, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

1.Articles with a clarifier in parentheses: e.g., Moss (band) 2.Articles with a clarifier following a comma: e.g., Moss, Monterey County, California 3.Articles with the item as part of the name: e.g., Moss Bros (Only include articles whose subject might reasonably be called by the ambiguous title.) 4.Synonyms: e.g., Tincture on Spirit (disambiguation)

Are this examples not alphabetical sorted? -- Sweepy (talk) 00:33, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
There's no rule, too, editing in any WPs...And all do it...My sorting is once of them, because you find faster by sorting alphabetical or not? -- Sweepy (talk) 00:46, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
@Sweepy: No. What it is saying is you should sort by how similar the entry word is to the title of the disambiguation page. It says that this means you usually sort in the following order:
  1. Entries that have the exact same name as the title and are followed by a description in parentheses go first. For example, if the title of the page is Moss, then Moss (band) would go first.
  2. Entries that have the exact same name and are followed by a description after a comma go second. For example, Moss, Monterey County, California
  3. Entries that have the same word as the title as part of their name go third. For example, Moss Bros
  4. Entries that do not have the same name as the title go last.
It does not say you should sort the entries alphabetically, which is what you are doing. Does that makes sense? Brycehughes (talk) 00:48, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
About doing sense, please see my comment. -- Sweepy (talk) 00:53, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
@Sweepy: I don't understand you. In any case, I am bored with this conversation. Just know that you will annoy other editors if you keep doing what you are doing. And, generally, they're a lot more emotionally invested in this encyclopedia than I am. Good luck. Brycehughes (talk) 00:56, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Don't you want understand? Please see above my reason once more and you will see that I will'nt annoy other editors! The reason is faster finding with my doing... Regards -- Sweepy (talk) 08:00, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
And I see you are now blocked indefinitely. Brycehughes (talk) 14:18, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Go easy on the dab pages please[edit]

Hello, I came across a couple of your edits where you're using a rather hard brush to go through disambiguation pages. I'd like to ask you to consider a more lenient approach to interpreting the rules as deleting too much is doing more wrong than good. By overdeleting, people, in particular those involved with disambiguation, may not necessarily find anymore what they were looking for, resulting in links to dab pages being either deleted, or linked to the wrong target. As an example, schools, sports clubs, dioceses, etcetera, can all be referred to by their name, without the appendix of school or football club. E.g. he went to St Catherine's. And, also, there is more than one way to deal with DABRL. It doesn't mean one has to delete all red links that are not being used elsewhere. You could also look for articles where the term is being used, or has been used in the past, and create a link within that article, or add the information so that the term becomes referenced. It avoids having to delete good references. Rgds, --Midas02 (talk) 03:43, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Sure thing. Brycehughes (talk) 05:24, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Are so-called "good faith" edits not welcomed?[edit]


You have recently undone a minor edit of me with the comment "Reverted good faith edits by Sae1962". Are such edits not welcome?--Sae1962 (talk) 08:31, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

@Sae1962: Actually the reason I gave was MOS:DABORDER, since disambiguation pages aren't generally sorted alphabetically. Brycehughes (talk) 13:48, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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Information Technology and Innovation Foundation[edit]

You are either most ignorant fool or most belligerent moron that has ever edited or has admin privileges on Wikipedia, or just a conservative nutjob. Either way you have made Wikipedia totally unreliable source of information when you allow a corporate entity to post a pr page how great they're and call it Wikipedia information about the company, yet removed any information on funding and where their interests lie. One quick search on the internet you can easily find everything you wanted to find about these conman and scam artist pretending to be a think tank. With brainless idiots such as yourself no wonder these scam artist are allowed to run a mock on Wikipedia. No wonder no one wants to edit wikipedia or use it as any credible source, you've become a laughing stock of the internet, no credible attempt to follow on claims, verify sources and get in touch with anyone posting such a glowing PR report. (talk • contribs) & - (talk) these IP adresses belong to the very same institution article is written about, you ignorant fool you just allowed a company to post its own PR on wikiepedia with a glowing references, comparing itself to Max Planck Institute, citing itself as better than MIT, Caltech, JPL and score of other scientific institutions with Noble prize winners. The entire think thank is a joke and run by a right wing neo liberal conservative group with links to Koch brothers. They're not non-partisan or independent, getting significant finance from the Federal Budget as well as private mostly few wealthy donors with ulterior motives. Of course you'd find out that if you bothered to research bit on the supposed think tank nobody heard off.

Entire article about Information Technology and Innovation Foundation should be removed as it is a corporate spin PR piece, has very few relevant information but doesn't meat even the basic requirement of Wikipedia, it was written by staffers at the supposed think thank, ffs,. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:58, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

I wrote a lot of it, and I don't work there. Please stop removing reliably-sourced content. Please propose your edits on the article's talk page per WP:BRD or be bold and add reliably-sourced content to support your claims, but don't be offended if you are reverted and editors ask for discussion instead. Brycehughes (talk) 19:33, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Zone defense in American football[edit]

Hi Brycehughes,

I was browsing the Zone defense in American football article, and noticed that you had a discussion on the talk page about merging Zone defense in American football and American football coverage shells. I would support such a merge, and was wondering if you had the time to do it. Both of those articles appear to cover the same topics.

Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 00:51, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

@Natg 19: Hey, I'd like to, but it's probably more than I can take on right now. Brycehughes (talk) 01:04, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

your stub edit[edit]

As Lugnuts keeps reverting my edits on his talk page.... I said, "Lugnuts, where does it say you must revert? You just did a pointless revert. That would fall under WP:OWNBEHAVIOR, "An editor reverts a change simply because the editor finds it 'unnecessary' without claiming that the change is detrimental." Lugnuts clearly violated the rules. He should not have reverted. You edit was perfectly fine. He left a message on my talk page saying I violated the rules, plus made threats and insults. We both edited an article Lugnuts created. He has issues with ownership. Bgwhite (talk) 09:19, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: Yeah. Thanks. When I meet people like him around here I tend to just smile and back away slowly... Brycehughes (talk) 09:31, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Money Pump[edit]

Thanks for reverting -- I dont like Wikipedia to be providing ERRONEOUS information, but dont have time to provide all the style and details required for a super clean article, there are several queries on the current version which are ALL answered in the references provided, perhaps you can update

Standard economic theory[specify] assumes that preferences are transitive.[citation needed]

This should be replaced by: Economic theory is constructed on the assumption that people have utility functions. The existence of utility functions requires transitive preferences.


However, many[weasel words] people[who?] have argued that intransitive preferences are quite common, and often[weasel words] observed in real world settings.[citation needed]

The SEP article cited Hansson, Sven Ove; Grüne-Yanoff, Till (2012). Edward N. Zalta, ed. "Preferences". The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Winter 2012 ed.) (Stanford University). sec. 1.3 Transitivity. provides a list of authors who have made this argument and references to their published work

The Money Pump argument was invented[by whom?] to show that rational behavior requires transitive preferences.[citation needed]

The following quote is taken from entry on Dynamic Choice in SEP, which is citation number 3.

Given the famous “money pump argument,” which is suggested by Frank Ramsey's reasoning concerning dutch books (1926) and is developed by Donald Davidson, J. McKinsey, and Patrick Suppes (1955), it is clear that intransitive preferences can be problematic. Stanford Encylopedia of Philosophy article "Preferences"[1]

Similarly all places where (citation needed) occurs are either so famous (like transitivity required for utility) as to require no reference, or else taken from the sources cited.

For example about the focusing effect, the LINKED Wikipedia entry provides the information asked for.

best wishes Asaduzaman (talk) 11:17, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Hey, sure, yeah I'll take a look when I get a chance. Brycehughes (talk) 23:15, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I have decided to copy this to the Money Pump Talk page, where it probably belongs. Asaduzaman (talk) 01:28, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Can You have a look at this?[edit]

There was an obviously biased comment about the Social Science Citation Index. I did not delete the comment, but added the SOURCE of the comment to show that it was made by an interested party. My edit was reverted recently. Can you have a look and invoke suitable Wikipedia bodies to look into the matter? Thanks.

Asaduzaman (talk) 15:34, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

@Asaduzaman: Hi, sorry, I seem to be taking a break from Wikipedia at the moment. I'll be back when the mood strikes me. Best, Brycehughes (talk) 05:21, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Categories for N-letter disambiguation pages have been proposed for deletion[edit]

Here's the discussion. – Uanfala (talk) 17:59, 11 October 2016 (UTC)


Please don't be an entitled dick, and avoid screwing things up in the first place rather than expecting others to painstakingly clean up your edits.--Elmidae (talk · contribs) 05:42, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

@Elmidae: Huh? Those weren't my edits. Brycehughes (talk) 06:52, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

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Removal of "United States" from city, state names[edit]

It looks like you saw the discussion at [1]. I think I (or a few other editors) have reverted or undid all of your removals of U.S. as part of a place name.

Thank you for fixing the wildly inconsistent use of USA! —EncMstr (talk) 01:01, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

@EncMstr: Thanks for taking the time to revert. Brycehughes (talk) 01:02, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

TWA Flight 841 (1979) -- your reasons for discrediting the best source on B727 N840TW[edit]

On 15Dec2016, you edited that web-page:

 "... is not a reliable source..."

Brycehughes -- is there any justification for your statement? NOT RELIABLE?

Can you cite any err in his work?

This inflight upset of B727 N840TW on 4Apr79 may be beyond your S&C capabilities.

Unless YOU can show some err in Corsetti's work, please retract your opinion & your edit.
Consider seven decades of airliner inflight upsets, from my perspective (having flown at Boeing Flt-Test and TWA during 1979):

Corsetti's book is one of the BEST sources on N840TW.

Bryce, I'll lead you one step further -- that NTSB AAR-81-8, and Wikipedia, are the unreliable sources.

The USA's "independent" Safety Board has retained an undeserved reputation: infallible, flawless.

"independent"? of Boeing? of FAA?

Learn something about the history of Yaw x Roll airliner upsets, then maybe you can claim to be the "reliable" source, then maybe you could critique Corsetti's work.

Learn more -- go read these old threads . IGhhGI (talk) 20:47, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

UC Berkeley riots[edit]

Have a look at this and you'll see why UC Berkeley's events needs to be updated, concerning ongoing riots and whatnot. Just a heads up. VGN34D (talk) 03:09, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, but I reverted your edit because it made no sense. Brycehughes (talk)
Yeah. I wasn't able to put in any source so I sent you a link for you and anyone else to update the UC Berkeley page. I'd do it myself, but it can rather be a chore to do everything myself. VGN34D (talk) 04:50, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Well, I guess I'm not really convinced that a sentence regarding these riots belongs in the article. I mean, yeah, decently big news story today, but not that big from a historical perspective and, given the brevity of the article's history section, I'm worried adding it would give the event undue weight. Brycehughes (talk) 05:03, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

National Academy of Construction (disambiguation page)[edit]

Thanks for taking care of deletion. I meant to ask about that when we were discussing NAC page deletion.MaeInJune (talk) 21:06, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

@MaeInJune: Sure thing. It should disappear after a week or so. Brycehughes (talk) 21:16, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Kirke Mechem[edit]

Bryce, I have thanked you for your most recent revision, the deletion of the "Trivia" section. However, you were mistaken when you wrote that it was unsourced. If you go back five years or so, you will see that this entire section was sourced as coming from the composer or from yearbooks from his high school. This was done before I ever heard of Wikipedia; I haven't the time to find out when or by whom the article was created or who removed the sourcing. It's not worth the trouble. Stolzing (talk) 00:32, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

@Stolzing: A source by the composer could possibly qualify as a reliable source per WP:SELFSOURCE, but you should of course provide the source. That said, the material is inane and unsuitable for an encyclopedia. I agree that it is not worth the trouble. Brycehughes (talk) 01:14, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Claire Kittrell for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Claire Kittrell is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Claire Kittrell until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Antonioatrylia (talk) 18:48, 22 April 2017 (UTC)