User talk:CJLL Wright/Archive I

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2005 2006 2007 2008
2009 2010–11 2012

May '05 – Dec '05

Indigenous peoples

Thanks for your response at Category talk:Indigenous peoples. No need to apologize for longwindedness, I appreciate your thoughtful response. I have replied there. Kind regards, — mark 11:33, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks mark, for your input. As per your suggestion I have added Category:Ethnic groups as parent category, and also Category:Anthropology and Category:Human societies, and further expanded the proposed guidelines for Category:Indigenous peoples article inclusion.--cjllw | TALK 23:46, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)
It looks good; thanks for your work! — mark 19:34, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi. Um, what do you mean by "indigenous people"? Because the Tuareg are a good illustration of the term's limits; they are recent and highly successful invaders throughout most of their West African range, but arguably "indigenous" to their northern Libyan areas since possibly Roman times; and their invasions were followed by later invasions, such as the French. I don't see how such a category can be NPOV or well-defined to begin with, but laying that to one side, on what basis are you applying it there? (I reverted already, but then thought I should discuss this first.) - Mustafaa 04:05, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi Mustafaa . By indigenous peoples I mean the sense of the term as currently outlined in the main indigenous peoples article. I appreciate that there may be varying degrees of contention in assigning any particular group to a Category:Indigenous peoples designation, however I have elaborated the criteria for doing so at the Category talk:Indigenous peoples page, please refer. These criteria do (I hope) provide a basis for suitably and clearly defining this usage, and also to do this in a NPOV-fashion. In the particular instance of Tuareg, I have relied upon certain references for this, but have not as yet annotated these on the article or talk page. I shall supply these on Talk:Tuareg shortly, to open this up to wider discussion. --cjllw | TALK 05:22, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)
Completed the response and references at Talk:Tuareg, & quick update on User talk:Mustafaa. --cjllw | TALK 09:26, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

I like the change you made to "Indigenous peoples of the Americas" --Dark Tichondrias

Why, thanks!--cjllw | TALK 08:17, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Peter Matthiessen

Hello --

I'm trawling for smart people with an interest in American Indian affairs, and if you happen to have anything to contribute to the Peter Matthiessen article, or know someone who does, I think that would be great!


Ben-w 08:52, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ben-w, unfortunately I am not at all familiar with this author or his works, so would not easily be able to add anything to that article - cheers. --cjllw | TALK 2005 June 28 23:31 (UTC)

Re: VOC ships, naming conventions and categories

( ref. to my original post at User talk:Sandman30s )


Thanks for the welcome. Yes that was an error regarding the Amsterdam, sorry about that, will try and be more thorough in future. Yes I am going to expand the ships in future, just doing a bit more research first. It's on my "to do list" :)

Regarding categories, I have tried to categorize all my new articles. Is there anything I have missed?

And of course this is an amazing opportunity to add to a central point of, the way I see it, all human knowledge. I just hope this project will be sustainable and not disbanded due to escalating server or support costs!

Regards Sandman

Sandman, no problems. There were a couple of articles on some Bantu languages you had started, I added them to Category:Bantu languages. Happy editing! --cjllw | TALK 07:24, 2005 July 25 (UTC)


(ref. to my original post at User talk:Hesperian )

Thanks for pointing that out; I'll remove it from Category:Exploration of Western Australia. The category organisation for exploration and explorers in Western Australia has been working well, so if you give me five minutes I'll create Category:Exploration of Australia and put Duyfken in there... done. Hesperian 00:07, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

No problem. The new category should be fine; and perhaps at some later stage further regional Australian exploration subcats can be set up to accommodate this and other entries. Cheers! --cjllw | TALK 00:45, 2005 July 27 (UTC)

WikiProject Writing Systems

Hello! A few days ago I put up a proposal on the talk page of the WS project, regarding the structure of pages dealing with writing systems. Perhaps you'd like to look at it, and make comments.--Siva 20:59, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Siva - you've made some good suggestions. I hope to have time in the next day or two to respond on that talk page with some further suggestions. --cjllw | TALK 07:09, 2005 August 1 (UTC)


Thanks for the barnstar!

(You're not suggesting my mortar is cracked, are you?)

kwami 06:19, 2005 August 3 (UTC)

Kwami, you're most welcome - again, some very nice work, congrats.--cjllw | TALK 01:17, 2005 August 4 (UTC)

Indigenous peoples of/in Australia

Hi CJLL Wright, I wanted to ask you which you felt is a more proper title: Category:Indigenous peoples of Australia or Category:Indigenous peoples in Australia. The difference would be if "Australia" is intended to be referred to as a continent or as a country. I note that Category:Indigenous peoples of Tasmania is currently a part of Category:Indigenous peoples of Australia, seemingly implying that "Australia" is being referred to as a country because Tasmania is both an island within Oceania and a state of the country Australia. If we want the focus of Category:Indigenous peoples of Australia to be about Australia the continent then we could simply move the Tasmania category up to Category:Indigenous peoples of Oceania. Regardless, if we keep it there and we agree that Australia is being referred to as a country, then I'll propose renaming as I have for Indigenous peoples in the United States. Thanks for your work on indigenous peoples-related matters. Kurieeto 05:09, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Hi Kurieeto. I see your point, and the resulting confusion which is possible because in common parlance the political state of Australia is often used synonymously with the contintental region of Australia. I agree that if we take this category to refer to the political entity, "in Australia" is preferable to "of Australia" (and similarly for Tasmania). In addition, there is a further complication arising from the common (or uncritical) interpretation of "geographical" Australia to include not only the main continental landmass, but also its near offshore islands (such as the Tiwi Islands or Groote Eylandt, which have significant indigenous populations).
Although I did not institute the category Category:Indigenous peoples of Australia, when setting up the sub-regional categories of Category:Indigenous peoples of Oceania I suppose that I saw "Australia" as being a region, rather than a political entity, to complement the other subdivisions I made for Oceania: Category:Indigenous peoples of Polynesia, Category:Indigenous peoples of Melanesia and Category:Indigenous peoples of Micronesia. If you like, this would be similar to the sub-regional division of the Americas into North, South, Central and the Caribbean. It is just that in this instance, the territory of this particular sub-region is encompassed by a single modern state.
Another factor to consider is that strictly speaking, the Commonwealth of Australia was established only in 1901 with Federation, before that the states had independent existence as British colonies. But of course, pre-1901 history is still commonly referred to as Australian history.
As for "Tasmania", likewise its unqualified usage can cover both the geographical island (and its own associated smaller islands, such as Flinders Island), and the state (I know that some Tasmanians can get upset if it is omitted in geographical depictions of the Australian region!). The current Category:Indigenous peoples of Tasmania has but four entries at the moment, on individuals rather than peoples, and does not include Tasmanian Aborigines; its current use is more as an "indigenous people" rather than "indigenous peoples" cat.
In short then, IMO Category:Indigenous peoples of Australia has a regional, rather than strict political, sense, and so could remain as "of" rather than "in" (perhaps some text qualifying this could be added to the cat.). But that is just my view, others involved or interested in the Cat. might think differently. Re Category:Indigenous peoples of Tasmania, its interpretation as a region or a state is harder to separate - I could be persuaded either way, and would be open to other viewpoints.--cjllw | TALK 01:46, 2005 August 15 (UTC)
Sorry I took so long to get back to you, I've been sidetracked by various things. I understand your points - For now I've edited the description of Category:Indigenous peoples of Australia to include the word "region" as you've explained above. Kurieeto 03:16, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
Kurieeto, no problem. Thanks for making that change to clarify the category scope! --cjllw | TALK 00:31, 2005 August 23 (UTC)

Augustus Le Plongeon

Nice work on Augustus Le Plongeon. Thanks! — Nowhither 09:22, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Nowhither, you're most welcome! I must say that your prior copyedits greatly improved the article's utility, on this fascinating and eccentric character.--cjllw | TALK 02:10, 2005 August 26 (UTC)

Writing system image

Hey CJ,

The new map for Writing system is just about ready. Do you want to take a look and see if you have any suggestions?

kwami 07:57, 2005 August 27 (UTC)

Hi Kwami. Great work on the distribution map for current writing systems! I've responded with only a couple of minor comments at Talk:Writing system. Cheers!--cjllw | TALK 01:06, 2005 August 29 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm taking some of Nohat's criticisms seriously (though not his complaint about including national boundaries!), so if you disagree with any of them I'd appreciate hearing that too. It would be good to know which criticisms are widely shared and which are individual preference. kwami 19:32, 2005 August 29 (UTC)
Kwami, as far as Nohat's stylistic suggestions go, using rectangular boxes for the Legend's colours instead of circles is fine, as would be spacing out some of the script labels into blank ocean area to balance the overall presentation. As for font & colour selection, I don't have a strong opinion, my own graphic design capabilities leave a lot to be desired. As long as the intended information (what script goes where) is clear, presentational styles will be personal choices.
However, for the bi-scriptual areas, I still think that your outlining is a better presentation than hatching- in the case of Japan for instance, its narrow shape might look odd or confusing if it were hatched. Anyways, I still think that it is a job well done. --cjllw | TALK 02:07, 2005 August 30 (UTC)

Good job.

I just wanted to thank you for all the great work on Andaman Islands related topics that you have done so far. You've really improved the articles. --Hottentot

Thanks, Hottentot, much appreciated. It's an intriguing corner of the world, I hope to do further expansions on the islands and the peoples. I spent a couple of days in Port Blair a few years ago now- unfortunately I no longer have the photos since it is difficult to find PD imgs of the place. There are a few on Indian govt. sites, but I am unsure as to their copyright status...oh well, will hv to keep looking.
I run across your sig in quite a few places, and admire the industry and consistency of your work. Cheers! --cjllw | TALK 00:16, 20 September 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for defending the Tasaday article against unfounded comments! Lensim 01:42, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

No problem, Lensim! Such unsubstantiated claims should not go unchallenged.--cjllw | TALK 06:44, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Copyvio's in Australia

Thanks for catching my blunder on numerous Australian cities/towns within the past hour. I was sure I had checked those Page History's for previous content.. perhaps this is a sign I should just call it a night. Kudos for being on the ball, and apologies for the headache. Peruvianllama 06:57, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

No probs, Peruvianllama- and kudos to you for picking up on that anon's plagiarism spree in the first place- hard to see what their motivation was. Fairfax Digital don't exactly make the copyright status clear, I suppose...the content is reproduced in a few other sites (but with attribution), so p'haps the user was mislead.--cjllw | TALK 07:05, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


Hey there, I saw you revised the page to remove the fact that they are the last nomadic people. Just wanted to point out: and "The basis for the Spinifex people’s land ownership (Ngura Tjantu) is of particular interest as a case study, because their relationship to the land is amongst the most nomadic and unsettled of any Aboriginal group." (from Your edit may be accurate but IMHO I think it possibly under-represents the uniqueness of the Spinifex way of life in 2005. What do you think? SeanMack 06:27, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi Sean. I had wanted to avoid the impression that they are the sole remaining Aboriginal people who maintain a continuity with their traditional subsistence and environment, which is how "...the last Aboriginal nomadic hunter-gatherer people in Australia" read to me. There are other peoples who lifestyle still involves self-subsistence and are not solely confined to community settlements; but I agree that the Spinifex People are amongst those whose traditions are the least interrupted. It was not my intention to downplay their situation in this regard- perhaps some further additions to the article on the nature of their society &c. would help bring this out. If you can think of a way to re-word so as to indicate that they adhere to traditional subsistence in ways and to an extent which is uncommon in contemporary times, then please do- my phrasing is not necessarily the best.
You'll notice I also toned-down the "harsh and remote" landscape bit- I think these when used unqualified are rather subjective, since the land has evidently been able to support their community adequately enough, and I suspect that the people themselves might view it a little differently.--cjllw | TALK 07:19, 9 October 2005 (UTC)


The Epic Barnstar
Here, have an Epic Barnstar, in recognition of your excellent work on the Sylvanus Morley article.--Scimitar parley 15:57, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Why, thanks very much Scimitar, much appreciated! It was quite enjoyable researching this character; now just need to add a summation of his achievements and a note on how his contributions are viewed nowadays. Cheers!--cjllw | TALK 23:46, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, if you keep writing articles I come across and enjoy reading, I'll happily give you one each! Thanks for writing it; I've always been a bit of a history buff, and it's just cool reading about people like Mr. Morley.--Scimitar parley 00:00, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


Updated DYK query Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Sylvanus Morley, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.


Thank you for your very generous compliments about my Mayan religion work. I added a little to the Mayan mythology page today; I hope you approve. Thanks again. Angel 20:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

You're most welcome, Angel- always a pleasure to see good editing at work. Your updates to Maya mythology have similarly improved that article- well done, and cheers.--cjllw | TALK 07:42, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

About unsigned comments

Concerning User_Talk:, please sign your comments with the usual ~~~~ wiki markup. Thanks. :) // Pathoschild 21:41, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder, in that instance I was a little rushed in adding the vandal warning, and missed clicking the sig button.--cjllw | TALK 23:11, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Bounty Board

Greetings. You've recently been involved with working on get articles up to featured status, so I wanted to let you know about a new page, Wikipedia:Bounty board. People have put up monetary bounties for certain articles reaching featured status - if the article makes it, the bounty lister donates the stated amount of money to the Wikimedia Foundation. So you can work on making articles featured, and donate other people's money at the same time. If this sounds interesting, I hope you stop by. – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 22:20, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up, Quadell. It looks to be an intriguing concept; I'll give it some thought. Cheers.--cjllw | TALK 01:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Mayan Calendar

Why have you remove a reference to Jose Arguelles from Mayan calendar article? I know his analyses are rejected by most Mayanist scholars. But he is still notable in popular culture relating to the Mayan Calendar. --Nikitchenko 09:58, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

On reflection, I may have been too precipitous. I was alarmed by your edit comment to the effect that Arguelles is a "primary figure", when in fact not a single one of his "interpretations" has advanced or is accepted by Maya scholarship. There are many more like him who have co-opted what they have read about the Maya calendar and turned it into some mystic, supernatural device of their own choosing. Which I think is rather a pity, since the actual story and structure of the Maya calendar is far more fascinating and remarkable than any of the pop-theories which they have come up with, and serves only to obscure what is a notable human achievement. However, I suppose that fringe ideas such as Arguelles's have their corner in WP, at least insofar as they are publicly-known: I would be concerned however if it were to be represented that these are accepted interpretations, when they are not, or if too many such references clouded the actual story. But in this case, a single "see also" link is not too intrusive, and so I have self-reverted that deletion.--cjllw | TALK 00:35, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for the copyediting you have done on the Yarralumla article. --Martyman-(talk) 02:11, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

No problem, Martyman- and many thanks to you for the great efforts and research you have put into it. I lived there for a short while as a kid, and have fond memories of mucking about in Weston Park; it was interesting to read of the area's history. I'll be sure to add my vote of support to its FA candidacy. Again, nice work - cheers!--cjllw | TALK 03:00, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Merci beaucoup

Hi, CJLL.Thanks for your vote of support on my nomination to become an administrator. I passed, and my floor rag has since been bestowed upon me. Please let me know if you need me to help with anything in particular! —BrianSmithson 17:02, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

A pleasure, Brian. My only misgivings re you're new responsibilities would be if it were to impede your ability to continue making such thoughtful and valued contributions - but I am sure that you'll be able to proceed apace, pen poised in one hand, cleaning cloth in the other! Congrats, and cheers--cjllw | TALK 22:06, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


Hi thanks for rescueing that article. I wasn't sure if it was a real musical instrument or not, but I tagged it the basis that is was empty only containing one word. Anyway just saying thanks. I'm all for learning something new and I just did. Cheers. KnowledgeOfSelf | talk. 08:55, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

  • P.S. I was a little bored so I decided to bombard you with that useless comment :-D
No worries, KoS- the article's creator didn't exactly make it easy to identify! It sounded like a genuine Nahuatl word to me, so I did some hunting around, found it existed, and also learnt something new in the process. Cheers, --cjllw | TALK 09:03, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Copyright permission claim- Punjabi etc

Hi wright, The article i posted on was recently deleted. I have full rights to post articles from

Thanks and regards., Sarathy.s —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suthra (talkcontribs) 17 Nov 2005

Sarathy.s, I believe that this has already been responded to now (by someone else) on your talk page. As stated there, it would be far preferable for you to add the information in your own words, rather than the text of some other website (which is marked as copyright-protected: to appear in Wiki, the text needs to be released under a rather different licensing agreement, as mentioned). Regards, --cjllw | TALK 21:59, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
Sarathy.s, I have also now further explained the concerns on your talk page. Regards, --cjllw | TALK 08:29, 18 November 2005 (UTC)


Hi Wright, Thanks for your polite and straight-to-the point reply. I really appreciate it.

Regards., Sarathy.s —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suthra (talkcontribs) 18 Nov 2005

You are quite welcome, Sarathy.s - I hope that helps. Regards, --cjllw | TALK 08:29, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Fan mail!

I've read through some of your edits and contributions along with your user page. Just wanted to say I admire your work at Wikipedia. Keep up the good work! Thaagenson 20:45, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Many thanks for your kind words, Thaagenson. I fear I've made somewhat of a rod for my own back with the 'to-do' list on my userpg- it keeps expanding without any end in sight! But that's rather the point, and also the fun, of wikipedia....cheers, --cjllw | TALK 23:27, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Ianblair23's RfA


G'day Chris,

It has taken a bit of time I know, but I would like to thank you for supporting me on my RfA. It closed with the final tally of 57/0/0. I can only hope I can live up to the expectations that this wonderful community of ours demands from each of its administrators. Hopefully, we can meet up again following the success of dinner last night with Angela. Also, could you check the Wikipedia:Meetup/Sydney page and add your two cents, that would be great. Cheers! -- Ianblair23 (talk) 03:39, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
No worries re the support, Ian. And agreed, the meetup was interesting, and it would be a worthwhile experience to repeat sometime in the future. I'll see if I can think of anything not already covered and add it to the account of the mtg. cheers, --cjllw | TALK 04:07, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


yeah, I changed my mind about leaving. I just had to kind of clear my watchlist and remove the racist username. --Khoikhoi 01:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok, Khoikhoi, that's good to hear- welcome back!--cjllw | TALK 02:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Native American tribes

Hi. Do you have any idea what to do with Category:Native American tribes? I think we should empty it into the following categories: Category:Indigenous peoples of the Caribbean, Category:Indigenous peoples of Central America, Category:Indigenous peoples of North America, and Category:Indigenous peoples of South America. What do you think? --Khoikhoi/Hottentot 03:15, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Khoikhoi. I agree that Category:Native American tribes (and a few others which are related, particularly Category:Native American) is a bit of a problem, all the more so since we split up Native Americans into Native Americans in the United States, indigenous peoples of the Americas, and a few others. The whole indigenous/Native American category schema needs an overhaul and consistency review, and my personal preference is for the "indigenous peoples of..." structure. However, I feel sure that there'd be quite a few people wedded to the "Native American" terminology, and so unilateral action might unintentionally stir things up a bit - perhaps the best approach would be to put up a category rename or reorg proposal on the category talk pg first (and/or a category delete/rename proposal), and see where the discussion takes us. If you see Category talk:Native American, similar proposals had been put forward a couple of months ago, but nothing really came of it.
Another point to note is that "Native American tribe" could be interpreted as having a specific meaning, namely that "tribe" refers to the entities which are recognised by the (U.S., in this case) government, and these entities are not necessarily the same as an indigenous ethnic grouping. So it could be argued that this category intends to be a subset of, and is not necessarily synonymous with, Category:indigenous peoples of North America or Category:indigenous peoples in the United States. Cheers, --cjllw | TALK 22:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Indigenous and traditional knowledge

For your information, much of the information contained in indigenous knowledge was a copyvio from I made it a redirect towards traditional knowledge. Although there might be some subtle differences between traditional and indigenous knowledge, I suggest making one common article. --Edcolins 12:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up, Ed, and well picked up. Curiously, the offending wikipedia indigenous knowledge article and its presumed source text on that blogspot were created on the same day (April 21, 2005), which would seem to be more than a coincidence- it would be quite likely that it was the blog author (Martin Schenke) himself who created that article (under anon ip) and populated it with the duplicated material, a suspicion further supported by the fact the ip used is an address in Sth Africa, as is the blogspot author. Nevertheless, it's more desirable that the wiki article finds its own voice, and now that there is a traditional knowledge article I agree that the two can be combined - at least for now. Cheers, --cjllw | TALK 22:18, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for the reply on my behalf. Excellent. --Edcolins 08:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


The Taino article is up for peer-review. Go help out if you can. --MateoP 23:35, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification, Mateo. I will put in my 2 cents, hopefully a peer review can help sort out a few of the "difficulties" and more contentious additions that this article has been experiencing of late.--cjllw | TALK 23:40, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for participating on my RfA

one fish
two fish

Thanks for participating in my RfA. The final vote was 57/4/3. I hope I don't disappoint those who voted support, and that those who didn't won't wish they'd campaigned more strongly in opposition. Tomertalk 03:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

No problem, Tomer, and congratulations on your appointment. Given the strength of support you received, I feel reasonably sure that any qualms and indecision indicated by my neutral vote will in hindsight turn out to be unwarranted; congrats again & I look forward to working with you on some article, somewhere, sometime. Cheers,--cjllw | TALK 03:47, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

My RfA

Thanks for voting on my RfA! The final result was (36/1/1), so I'm now an administrator! Shanel 20:41, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations, Shanel - very glad to hear it went through. Good luck! --cjllw | TALK 05:16, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Ianbrown's RfA

Crystal ksmiletris.png
Thanks for voting in my recent RfA. I was overwhelmed at the turnout and comments received.

Iantalk 07:38, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

No worries, Ian- an appointment well deserved! Cheers, --cjllw | TALK 05:14, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

malo's RfA

Thank you!
CJLL Wright, thanks for your support on my RFA. I was rather suprised at the overwhelming support I received. Thank you for your confidence in me. I hope that I'll live up to your expectations in the future as well. -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 05:07, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
You're welcome, Malo - I'm sure the sysop tools will go to good use- keep up the vandal whacking! Cheers, --cjllw | TALK 05:14, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


Hi - you are not away! ;-) Noticed your activity in the aforementioned indicating that you might have some expertise with the 2000 US Census. Is that true or am I jumping to conclusions? Cheers Jbetak 07:00, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Jbetak- yes I am still away travelling, but able to drop in briefly from time to time. I've replied more fully at your talk page. Regards, --cjllw | TALK 00:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)