User talk:Chris troutman/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

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Archive 5

Thanks for the welcome

Did a search on the Coyote4til7 (talk) on the questions page you linked w/o luck. About to post a change to the FTPFS page. Where do I put the 4 tildes? Coyote4til7 (talk) 18:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)]]

Tildes

Okay... I had an idiot moment and didn't put things in a new section.

I probably will keep updating things. Some of the sections I frequent can be update challenged ;-).

I made a wild guess and assumed that the four tildes go at the tail end of the update description. I'll keep an eye on this page in case you want to give me a headsup that it's done another way.

peace — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coyote4til7 (talk • contribs) 19:03, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

No problem, always glad to find new users. You can read about signatures on the Wikipedia guidance on signatures.Chris troutman (talk) 19:07, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll read that Coyote4til7 (talk) 19:09, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Question

Thanks for the message. How do I find out what's specifically wrong with the article posted?Aehli (talk) 01:15, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

There are a couple problems with Gosen (company). First, the article seems to focus on a catalog of products that the company sells. Gosen can host that sort of information on their own website. Second, this article has no actual references; the requirement is to have secondary independent reliable reporting. Finally, I'm not sure Gosen is notable enough to have an article about it. (I listed my concern at Wikipedia:Notability/Noticeboard so the editors there can take a look at it.) Consider the article about Wilson Sporting Goods, which makes similar sporting equipment. The article is a discussion of the company within the industy, not advertising space.

I think with some work you can improve this article. Chris troutman (talk) 01:24, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Chris troutman, you are invited to the Teahouse

Hi Chris troutman! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia.
Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Jtmorgan (I'm a Teahouse host)

Visit the Teahouse

This message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 01:16, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

completion metrics

I replied at Wikipedia talk:Training/For students.--Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 14:07, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Question

Can I cite a court case that is in the public domain?City of Branch (talk) 18:37, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, you can. Use Template:Cite court to organize that reference. Chris troutman (talk) 18:48, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

New Questions

Thank you for your answer to my last question, Chris. New Questions: (1) Am I allowed to quote from Letters to the Editor of a newspaper even if those particular editions are not posted online? (2) I've eliminated virtually every statement whose reference don't say exactly what the text says, but still the Wikipedia message remains about how anything using "original research" may be deleted. How do I get rid of that statement? Thank you again.City of Branch (talk) 19:46, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Sure thing. Use Template:Cite news for your newspaper source. Not every source has to be online although online is typically easier for everyone to find. The reference guideline provides instructions on how to provide citations. I think you've done a sufficient job on providing sourcing although I personally would repeat citations at the end of every paragraph to clearly indicate the information's parentage. Since User:Abductive put the template on yesterday, ask on their talk page if they'd like to remove it. If you don't get an answer back in short order I'll remove the template. Chris troutman (talk) 20:20, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Question re: Court Case

If a court case is unpublished, but the law in our state says it is in the public domain (because it is NOT sealed), can I cite it and how? I tried the Template:Cite court, but couldn't make it work. Thank you again, ChrisCity of Branch (talk) 20:44, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Add the information to the Princeton, Texas article by simply putting it between <ref> </ref> tags. It can be modified to use the template later. I'm not sure I understand your concerns about posting the reference. The Non-publication of legal opinions in the United States article seems to indicate it's a legal matter of precedence. There's no reason you can't use it as a reference. You can ask the question at the Teahouse where more knowledgeable editors/administrators can address it. Chris troutman (talk) 21:05, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Question on how to cite same court case more than once

How do I indicate a short cut when citing a court case more than one time, so that the case won't continue to be added as a separate reference number? I've used the tags Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). on both sides of the court case name, but it lists it a second time as though it's a new reference. Thanks for your help again!City of Branch (talk) 00:37, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

I can fix it for you when you're done editing. The necessary coding is already there on the page, like how the source "Alpha" or "Beattie" is used multiple times. Chris troutman (talk) 00:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

unpublished court case cited more than once

Tried to enter a short name for the court case, but it didn't work, I guess because there's no template for this case, since it is not published yet. So, if there's no template to create the short cut name, how do I cite an unpublished court case more than once so it won't repeat as a different reference number, as in #4 and #8. THANKS very much!City of Branch (talk) 01:22, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

I fixed it. Hopefully you find that solution works for you... I think it meets requirements under WP:CITE. Chris troutman (talk) 01:36, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

No Response yet from User:Abductive

Thanks so much for your help. Have asked User:Abductive to delete his message or how I'm using "original" research, but have heard nothing so far. Rewrote the Gov't. section to only state facts with references. Hope he'll remove the threatening message soon. Thanks again!City of Branch (talk) 02:26, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Please don't see that maintenance template as a "threatening message;" it's far from that. He put the template there only to notify editors of a shortcoming. You've worked to improve the article and now it's time to wait. I didn't see you post anything to User:Abductive's talk page so I assume you contacted him by e-mail. I have submitted Princeton, Texas to WikiProject Texas for a re-assessment. Wikipedians on that team will visit the PrincetonTX article and determine where it stands. During this process please avoid feeling too much of a sense of ownership of that article. Every article belongs to the community and they may criticize how it looks or they may have a different vision of what it should be. Regardless, many of our best articles are a result of a collaborative, rather than individual, effort. Good work thus far. Chris troutman (talk) 03:18, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Slavery in Africa

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CVUA

Sure, I'll teach you, I'm setting up a page for you on my CVUA Page.

It can be found here: User:Shaun9876/CVUA §haun 9∞76 ^༆ 01:45, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm looking forward to it. Also, I'd like to take you up on that reviewer training, if you have time. Chris Troutman (talk) 06:22, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Sure, Sorry for not setting the page up yet... §haun 9∞76 ^༆ 22:25, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Article Feedback deployment

Hey Chris troutman; I'm dropping you this note because you've used the article feedback tool in the last month or so. On Thursday and Friday the tool will be down for a major deployment; it should be up by Saturday, failing anything going wrong, and by Monday if something does :). Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 23:32, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Pope Benedict XVI

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Please comment on Talk:Turkey

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Please comment on Talk:Mohamed Said Ramadan Al-Bouti

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A barnstar for you!

	The Real Life Barnstar
	Thank you for coming to my class in your role as a Wikipedia Campus Ambassador, to promote the Wikipedia assignment in my class. My students told me that your presentation made them feel more confident, motivated, and prepared to begin their involvement as Wikipedia Editors. Thank you! Steve Rouse (talk) 17:44, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

How to list another city as unincorporated

At the bottom of the Princeton website, Copeville is listed as unincorporated. How do I add one more unincorporated city next to Copeville? Thank you for all your help, City of Branch City of Branch (talk) 17:52, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

That information has been stored at Template:Collin County, Texas. Please note on the top left corner of that template there are the letters V T E. Clicking V will take you to the template page to View it. Click T to go to the template's Talk page. Click E to Edit the template. Once you're editing the template, simply add the next unincorporated area under the applicable section 4. Please start a discussion on the talk page if you ever intend on making large changes. Chris Troutman (talk) 00:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

City of Branch Dates

Dear Chris,

The City of Branch was incorporated on Aug. 14, 1971 and its corporate map plus complete survey were filed in the Collin County Clerk's office on Mar. 4th, 1975, at the time when Branch was at its largest. Subsequently, the Branch citizens did not like the new zoning rules imposed upon them by a new council, so they voted in a new mayor for the express purpose of un-incorporating Branch. On Apr. 12th, 1977, the City of Branch was unincorporated and the story was reported in The Princeton Herald. Another nearby city, Culleoka, was incorporated in 1901, but its government did not follow Collin County laws to continue its incorporation. The two local communities of Branch and Culleoka are unincorporated at this time. Am I allowed to list these two communities as unincorporated? Is this a big change? Thank you for all help. City of Branch (talk) 19:02, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

If you just want to add those towns as unincorporated on the template, I don't think that's a problem. If you want to add the entire paragraph, be sure you include references.

I'm not the single arbiter of what changes need discussion. You are welcome to be bold. If anything, describe your large proposed changes on the applicable talk page and wait a week. If you don't get any input, go ahead and make the change. Alternatively, make whatever changes you want until another editor raises the issue on a talk page. I think you're doing a fine job thus far. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:26, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute

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Wanting to add two names only

Dear Chris,

Thank you for all info. All I want to do is add two names to the "Unincorporated communities" section at the bottom left in alpha order, thus: Branch, Copeville (already there), Culleoka. City of Branch (talk) 19:09, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

So go to the template (as described above) and add them. Chris Troutman (talk) 01:05, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Red Letters?

Dear Chris,

Thanks for your help, as always. I added the two cities in alpha order, but "Branch" came out RED. Why? City of Branch (talk) 18:51, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Because, like your user page, the page does not exist. (See WP:RED and WP:CREATE.) Internal links will only be blue if they point to an existing page. Chris Troutman (talk) 23:32, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

New Page?

Dear Chris,

How do I create a page on the City of Branch? Have copies of all official documents filed in Collin Co. plus local newspaper accounts about the beginning, middle, and end of Branch.City of Branch (talk) 18:34, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not need to have an article on Branch, Texas. You could start by writing a subsection about Branch on the Collin County article and then as more content is developed move that to a standalone article. Furthermore, because of your username I think there might be a conflict of interest. Wikipedia has a neutral point of view and can't allow articles to be written that don't provide a fair assessment.

To make a new article, see WP:CREATE. Long story short: Click on your red link for Branch, Texas. Put your information there. Please read WP:NOTE for the notability guidance, otherwise your article may get deleted just as you get started.

Feel free to interact with members of WikiProject Texas as you develop this material. I'm a big proponent of getting independent editors involved if only to be an extra set of eyes. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:14, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Branch, Texas page exists

Dear Chris,

The City of Branch webpage exists. Please see: http://branchtexas.yolasite.com Thanks for all help.City of Branch (talk) 20:27, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Rujm el-Hiri

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Straight Edge

Oh and hey bro I think you got the wrong link. The page is located at Straight edge, The one you linked is a redirect, So you might want to fix that or something because merging with a redirect is pointless ;). But I seriously dont think we should merge an article, or even consider it, 3 seconds after its made. Its only going to grow ya know. BlackDragon 00:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

It was also never part of the article, so we cant merge it "back" into the article. BlackDragon 00:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about the capitalization error. Please don't misunderstand. I appreciate your edits. I simply have a philosophy that articles grow organically. An existing article is a tree and subjects around it are acorns hanging from the twigs of that tree. That acorn (stub content) is part of the tree before it falls and becomes its own tree. I don't support planting new trees when all you have is stub content; I support letting new trees grow from old trees. Chris Troutman (talk) 01:10, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Yep No problem. But I see what your saying but there is more than stub, its just not there yet. I could have added plenty more but I just saved it at the main ones to have others input and just let it grow that way so its easier to get all that we can. But either way I think lists are kinda like a different kind of article. If it was a stub article, then yeah I could see just branching it off of the main page. On the other hand I dont think lists should follow the same pattern as it would just make the Straight Edge page an Article/List and not just an article BlackDragon 02:01, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I get what you mean, which is why I tagged the article with the "under construction" template. There's disagreement about whether new articles should be written in a sandbox before being visible lest they get deleted. (Or created from a parent article as I've described.) I'm a campus ambassador and students I'm mentoring got ambushed like that when they started out. I don't know anything about the subject, so you might be right that there's lots of content and a list makes sense. I'd defer that judgement to the folks working the "Straight edge" article which is why I posted the notice over there. Anyway, I hope it works out. Chris Troutman (talk) 02:22, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes there are lots of people that follow the lifestyle, including myself, but I also posted the incomplete tag on the article as it is by far not done. I do plan I working more and like to just make it to have other input because If its in my sandbox chances are no one will see it. There are list pages for people that follow many lifestyles and this is one I had been planning on making for a while and just got around to doing so.

Ive also just noticed that you are new here. List and articles usually never go into one so a merge would not make since anyways. Lists are different articles than regular ones and stand alone no matter how small or long usually as well. BlackDragon 02:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Do you believe me. My name is 7. German Wiki banned my german Account

Because I know bad side effects but the german wiki doesn't wanna know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olanzapine

My page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Word2013 --Word2013 (talk) 08:57, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Deletion of Idrisiyya

This page is propaganda against the Idrisiyya and information are incorrect as well. Please delete the page as soon as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Usman Khalil (talk • contribs) 06:14, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

First, thanks for your edits on Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions. As for the Idrisiyya article, it doesn't appear defamatory or slanted and the article has references. If you feel those references are somehow inaccurate, you can raise that issue on the article's talk page. You can also voice your concerns at WikiProject Islam's talk page. There are other editors knowledgeable about this field and can find a reasonable solution. Chris Troutman (talk) 06:24, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I just removed the PROD tag Usman Khalil put on this article. Usman, if you have issues with the article being slanted against Idrissiya (and reading it, it's hard to see what they could be), getting the article deleted is not the way to go about it. Better would be to discuss your problems on the talk page, as Chris says, or to add referenced content that you think is more balanced and objective. Adding reliable information about Idrissiya is the best way to deal with propaganda against it. Rklear (talk) 20:52, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Ferenc Szaniszló

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CVUA?

Hey Chris. We still need at least two reports at AIV for you to move on to the next level. Thanks! :) Mediran (t • c) 00:57, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to have kept you waiting. I've been busy with schoolwork. I'll try find those two AIV reports by Monday. Chris Troutman (talk) 02:44, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

You have a new message!

Hello, Chris troutman. You have new messages at User:Mediran/CVUA/Chris_troutman.
Message added 02:05, 3 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Mediran (t • c) 02:05, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Re:Sarnak

Chris,

I saw your note, thanks. Two things, I saw your invite to the Teahouse, the teahouse is designed for new arrivals to Wikipedia, and I'm not new at all. (But I appreciate the invite). Second (I've noted this on Sarnak 's page, you tagged it as having no references, when in fact there are. The character Sarnak doesn't have a lot of cite available, so I made the decision (admittely IAR ) to list them as external links, otherwise, I would have had a duplication of cites linking back to the same external links. So yes, the sources are there. As such I removed the tag you placed on the article. I'll only touch it one time.

As to Sarnak's notability, you have a point, he was mentioned in 2 issues of Werewolf by Night so if consensus states he's not notable, the article goes. I'll point out that "Werewolf by night" was also a limited run, so merely having a limited run is not enough to declare a subject not notable. (Don't worry, I'm not arguing to keep the article, if you decide to have a discussion about it's notability, I'll abstain from voting or commenting on it at all :)

Thanks again KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh ... 11:13, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

KoshVorlon, I apologize for the inferred slight. I used Page Curation to tag the page and I wasn't aware a link to the Teahouse would be included. Had I known, I wouldn't have used that method.

I identify as an Eventualist, so I'm fine keeping the article, I've just noticed that sometimes I'll tag an article for sources or cleanup and another editor will notice and simply nominate for deletion, which isn't my goal. Stan Lee probably created hundreds of characters like Sarnak for just a couple issues and honestly, I don't know that the notability guidance covers these situations. I just thought I would mention notability before someone else did. I think my only suggestion would be to convert those external links into in-line citations so you can meet the letter of the law (or policy as the case may be). Chris Troutman (talk) 14:07, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Jerusalem

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247Sports.com

Hi, I've declined your CSD since I just removed the offending material from the article. I think it'll get deleted through AfD anyways though. Thanks! Legoktm (talk) 03:18, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Jesus

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2013 Wikinic

	Great American Wikinic at Pan-Pacific Park
	You are invited to the third Great American Wikinic taking place in Pan-Pacific Park, in Los Angeles, on Saturday, June 22, 2013! We would love to see you there! —howcheng {chat} 01:00, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
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Cookies!

	Here's a plate full of cookies to share!
	Hi Chris troutman/Archive 1, here are some delicious cookies to help brighten your day! However, there are too many cookies here for one person to eat all at once, so please share these cookies with at least two other editors by copying {{subst:Sharethecookies}} to their talk pages. Enjoy! Mediran (t • c) 00:41, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Chris: Thanks for the offer to visit my class, but I think for this quarter it's too late. I have several volunteer Wikipedians helping out. Also, students are claiming topics on my Talk page (which you thought was vandalism--thanks for keeping an eye you for me!). It turns out this is the most effective way of claiming topics that have no existing WP page. Students will begin creating pages shortly. Toby Higbie (talk) 17:50, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about that reversion. I haven't seen someone utilize their user page that way. I'd be glad to support you in future semesters. Chris Troutman (talk) 18:11, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

You've got a new mail!

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Please comment on Talk:List of metropolitan areas of the United States

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Disambiguation link notification for May 19

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Are your own words Bbb23 to another Wiki user persuasive?

Since you emailed me today Chris, I wanted to copy you my plea for resolution compromise to Bbb23:

Bbb23 your revision and blockage is wrong and unjustifiable here with all due respect. I have provided in my "plain and simple" revision the other night (at your specific instructions and request of me as a legitimate Wiki user) twenty-five "verifiable or even reliable" third-party sourcing not just ten as you are forcing here. "It's not that I doubt you," but "Wikipedia has rules that material must be sourced to something authoritative [c.f., university articles, broadcast media, newspaper and magazine publications, media outlets] that someone else can check", which I have provided in all 25 references that you have blocked Bbb23. "If you have access to a library with newspapers [which I do] that go back that far [which it does], ... that could work." Sometimes ones own words Bbb23 can be quite persuasive! Are your own words Bbb23 persuasive here for you please? Let's find a path to compromise here Bbb23 please please please. I am an honest man. I am not interested in misrepresenting anything or anyone here. I am an accurate man. It's my vocation. I am a legitimate Wiki user respecting the "Wiki park" and you Editor Bbb23. Aren't your own words Bbb23 persuasive here for you please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Olivermcgee (talk • contribs) 06:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Olivermcgee (talk • contribs)

I did not ask to have my name placed on BLP Noticeboard, please remove my name from this please Chris please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Olivermcgee (talk • contribs) 07:41, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Please understand that I contacted you only to ensure that you weren't being misrepresented on the wiki. I am not interested in advocating for you. Your efforts to edit the Oliver McGee article have made the situation worse.

Having the Oliver McGee article on the noticeboard only indicates that the article needs work and it does not harm your personal reputation.

Wikipedia is not here to serve your public relations needs. The way you want that article to read is simply not possible. Please DO NOT contact me in the future. Chris Troutman (talk) 03:32, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

CVUA

CVU Academy Graduate

Congratulations Chris troutman on your successful completion of this CVUA programme from the Counter-Vandalism Unit Academy. You completed your final exam with 100% and no issues came up during your 5 day monitoring period as well as in the rest of the course. Well done and congratulations again. Further information on your progress through the academy can be found at your Counter-Vandalism Unit Academy page. Mediran (t • c) 02:58, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations Chris! Arctic Kangaroo (✉ • ✎) 03:00, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Chris Troutman (talk) 03:32, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

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Please comment on Talk:Comfort women

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assessing articles

Howdy. The page you are looking for is to aim for Wikipedia:Featured article criteria. The borrowed generalities are at Wikipedia:WikiProject_History/Review/A-class_review. If you have a specific article, I'd be happy to discuss it. --J. D. Redding 13:41, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Talk:Robert the Devil/Comments

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Hi. If you wish to comment about an article, please do so on its talk page which is there for that purpose. There is no need to create separate 'Comment' pages. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:36, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

But Template:WPBS has code calling for article assessments on the subpage, which is the only reason I created it. I'd simply like to know what the community consensus is. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:32, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

The Template:WikiProjectBannerShell goes only on the article talk page, just like the project banner. The banner shell is designed to neatly collapse banners from multiple projects (the people or patrollers who place the assessment banners). Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:54, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I know. I've been going through unassessed articles in WikiProject History; Robert the Devil was one of them. I added WPBS to the talk page. WPBS has code in it that specifies if there's a "Comments" subpage, it displays a "This article has an assessment summary page" link. I've seen it used on other talk pages, which is why I added my assessment into a subpage rather than directly on the talk page with Template:To do. I try to make every edit a good one so if my edits are going to be reverted I'd like to get an explanation on community policy. Chris Troutman (talk) 18:04, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

The assessment summary is something quite different and it's very rarely used. For all intents and purposes, the article talk page is for all the comments, suggestions, and discussions. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:31, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Consulting with instructors at UCLA

Thanks for your message on my talk page! Are you going to be around this summer, by any chance? If so, that would be a good time for helping faculty/TAs to think about how to incorporate WP assignments into their syllabi, and I'd be glad to help connect you. Nafpaktitism (talk) 19:30, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, let me know when you'd like me to stop by. My schedule is open. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:34, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Gallipoli Campaign

I think you will find that User:Anotherclown deleted Falls from the Gallipoli Campaign article as it is no longer used as a reference in this article. Can you self revert thanks.Jim Sweeney (talk) 19:27, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Done. I have added that source to the "Further Reading" section lest it be forgotten. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:07, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Ethnic conflict in Sri Lanka

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WikiProject Christianity Newsletter (June 2013)

ICHTHUS

June 2013

From the Editor

Since its formation in 2006, WikiProject Christianity has come a long way. A significant number of new articles have appeared on a wide range of topics, and the quality of some key articles has seen dramatic improvement. Yet, by the very nature of the open, crowd-sourced development environment in which we operate, as the number of pages in the project has increased at times our attention has been naturally diluted. We should of course strive for quality everywhere, but we should remember that this newsletter is called Ichthus.

Starting this month we will start a "Focus on" series, where we will try to "bring Jesus back" and focus on him. For five consecutive issues we will focus on one aspect of the study of Jesus. The goal of this series is to inform our members of what the project contains and highlight those articles which have reached quality and stability.

From this month until November we will focus on the historical Jesus, a topic which has been the subject of much discussion on article talk pages, as well as the general media. This is an important topic, and we have a good set of well referenced articles on that now. Then, starting in December we will focus on Christ, and the spiritual and theological elements that the title entails. Following that the review of the life and ministry of Jesus in the New Testament, his miracles, and parables will take place. And each month the "Bookshelf" will mention a book that fits the theme of the month.

We hope you will enjoy this journey as we present a new aspect of Jesus each month. And given that as the number of project pages increases, the ratio of those watching the pages declines, we hope that more of you will watch some of these central pages that help define this project.

Church of the month

The current building of All Saints' Church, Winthorpe in Nottinghamshire, England which was completed in 1888, is at least the third version of the church, which dates back to at least the early 13th century.

Good articles and DYKs
The article Jesus received the good article mark last month, as did Cleeve Abbey. A number of churches were featured on the main page in the DYK section in May, namely St. Lamberti, Hildesheim, Karja church, Braaby Church, St Patrick's Liverpool, Vlah Church, Freerslev Church, Cathedral of Our Lady of the Assumption, Mata-Utu, St. Michael's Cathedral (Sitka, Alaska), St. Lamberti, Hildesheim, Karja church, Braaby Church, St. Pierre Cathedral, Saint-Pierre, Mont Saint Michel Abbey, St Patrick's Church, Liverpool, Vlah Church, St Catherine of Siena Church, Cocking, Catedral Nuestra Señora de La Asunción, Roholte Church, Notre Dame Cathedral, Taiohae, Leicester Abbey, Caracas Cathedral, Caldey Abbey, King's Mead Priory, Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception (Hong Kong) andAll Saints' Church, Winthorpe, as well as the hymn What Wondrous Love Is This.

Focus on...

THE
HISTORICAL JESUS

Did Jesus exist? Did he walk the streets of Jerusalem? The Historicity of Jesus article answers these questions with a firm affirmative. Historicity does not discuss if Jesus walked on water, but if he walked at all. The issue was the subject of scholarly debate before the end of last century, but the academic debate is almost over now. As the article discusses, virtually all academic opposition to the existence of Jesus has evaporated away now and scholars see it as a concluded issue. The discussion is now just among mostly self-published non-academics.

In 2011 John Dickson tweeted that if anyone finds a professor of history who denies that Jesus lived,he would eat a page of his Bible (Matthew 1 he said). Dickson's Bible is still safe.

The article discusses the ancient sources that relate to Jesus and how they fit together to establish that he existed. The evidence for Jesus is not just based on the Christian gospels, but by inter-relating them with non-Christian sources, and the fact that they all "fit together". Moreover, the existence of Jesus is not supported just by Christian scholars and in recent years the detailed knowledge of Jewish scholars and their discoveries (e.g. Shlomo Pines' discovery of the Syriac Josephus) has proven highly beneficial. We encourage you to read and follow the article, for the existence of Jesus is central to the existence of Christianity.

From the bookshelf

Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence by Robert Van Voorst, 2000 ISBN 0-8028-4368-9

Just a few years after its publication, Van Voorst's book has become the standard comprehensive text for the discussion of ancient sources that relate to Jesus and his historicity. This detailed yet really readable book has received wide ranging endorsements - Blomberg and Harris separately referring to it as the most comprehensive treatment of the subject.

Did you know...

... that Johann Sebastian Bach wrote the initials "S. D. G.", for Soli Deo Gloria, at the beginning and end of all his church compositions to give God credit for the work, and that Handel at times did the same?

Calendar
The coming month includes days dedicated to the honor of Beheading of John the Baptist, Saints Peter and Paul, the Nativity of John the Baptist, and Saint Barnabas.

Help requests
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.

Ichthus is published by WikiProject Christianity.
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe remove yourself from the listhere

EdwardsBot (talk)

Manchester Square, Los Angeles

Why are you changing perfectly good citations? GeorgeLouis (talk) 03:51, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Because I've found that Reflinks often does a better job of grabbing data from the cited URLs. The citations in this case weren't a problem, but Reflinks had added the proper citation templates. Since you've undone my use of Reflinks on that article, go ahead and undo the other edit stripping the original data out. Right now there are just empty URLs. Chris Troutman (talk) 04:00, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I have no idea what you are talking about. There is no need to cite the date the data was gathered from the source, which anyway the dates you added were not the dates the sources were consulted. What difference does it make anyway as to when the sources were consulted? I don't get it. Seems like a real waste of your and my time. What was "improper" about the way the citations were made? I've been doing it this way with no complaint for years. Yours, GeorgeLouis (talk) 05:28, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Inconsistency between content on Purple_Heart and Paul_Gunn

Chris,

I see your comment regarding self-published sources. My edits to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Purple_Heart&action=edit&section=8 correct the discrepancy of the claim that 9 Purple Hearts is a distinction held by one man, yet on Paul Gunn's page he is also listed as holding 9 Purple Hearts.

However, the source referred to on Paul Gunn's page is a book written by his son -- thus it isn't technically self published.

Given that there is mention on the Purple Heart page that records have been lost, there is clearly no way to prove most claims on the number of awards. But I have read the book referenced, and have talked to a close friend of Colonel Paul Gunn, and he was an amazing war hero. I have no doubt of this claim.

In any case, it would make sense to correct one or the other, as there is a conflict between the two pages.

Ejive (talk) 22:29, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I saw the Paul Gunn article and put two maintenance templates on it as a compromise.

WP:SPS does not only refer to posting information on your own Twitter account but it also refers to going through publishing houses like AuthorHouse that are little better than a high-end version of FedEx Office. The general (perhaps false) assumption is that if you go through a reputable publisher like Random House the non-fiction content is checked and verified, or at least not fabricated. Self-publishing does not provide that third-party verification.

When I saw your edit on Purple Heart, I looked at the other article and its reliance on that self-published material. I seriously considered nominating the Gunn article for deletion but I did some research and decided that since most of those claims could be verified I would simply mark the Gunn article for improvement. I stand by my decision to remove Gunn's self-published claim of having qualified for nine Purple Hearts.

Writing an encyclopedia is an academic task and it has to be done to standard. While it's not too hard to believe Gunn was wounded nine times in combat, what you or I might believe doesn't meet the academic standard. We must have reputable independent sources in accordance with WP:RELY. I myself just paid $60 for a self-published book for research purposes. I know I'm going to have to find independent verification.

I would suggest either the Purple Heart article remains trustworthy and we allow editors to fix the Paul Gunn article, or we could remove all the self-published content from the latter. If you like, we can take this discussion onto the relevant talk page so other editors can become aware of the dispute and we'll find consensus that way. Thank you for asking me about the edit. I hope we can come to a mutually agreeable settlement. Chris Troutman (talk) 23:23, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the follow-up. I wanted to make sure you hadn't missed the reference on the Paul Gunn page, and now I see you haven't. It's unfortunate the Purple Heart database has not been kept intact, for those who are on it have given so much to our country.

Thanks for your time.

Ejive (talk) 02:16, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Monarchy of Canada

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wp: enlang

Don't be confused: people are working on endangered languages articles. I put in hours and hours and hours of work on various lists (as Ling.Nut, or some other related user name). I dunno if there are people supporting some initiative or other, but please don't knock someone else's work (WP:ENLANG) if you have no idea what you're talking about. Tks. • Serviceable†Villain 02:35, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm not confused. I don't need to be knowledgeable in order to register my opinion. In fact, the less I know about something the more I feel inclined to say something about it because there's zero barrier to entry. I appreciate that you and others are involved with WP:ENLANG. My concern (as I've already expressed) is overreach. I've heard that other WMF initiatives like Wikidata, Wikivoyage, and the like haven't been well received.

To be fair, I am one of those jingoists that doesn't believe that languages have any right to exist. Different languages only exist due to historical geographic isolation of peoples and the cultural/political importance that has attached to them. You are welcome to index and study various languages if you like. If WMF caters to your desires, fine. I am not trying to protect the funding of another project at the expense of WP:ENLANG. I simply don't see the wisdom of expanding the reach of WMF in such a short timespan.

Obviously you are too personally invested to see the forest for the trees. Your efforts to troll me, User:John Broughton, and User:JRSpriggs are sad. You posted your opinion in the Signpost discussion and should have left it at that. I can only assume you haven't had enough attention. This is all the more attention you'll get from me.

By the way, be sure to announce your sock use on your userpages.Chris Troutman (talk) 03:31, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 14

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Talkback

Hello, Chris troutman. You have new messages at Josve05a's talk page.
Message added 00:47, 15 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

(t) Josve05a (c) 00:47, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

1920s in Los Angeles

Hi there - I noticed your name at the Meetup LA8 page for the wicnic so I thought 1920s in Los Angeles might interest you. If not, no worries. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:30, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Refdesk RFC

Hi -- your contribution there is bizarre. SteveBaker is one of the most active contributors to the Ref desks, and certainly isn't in favor of doing away with them, so saying "per SteveBaker" makes no sense at all (unless you meant it as a joke; but if so it's a bizarre one). Regards, Looie496 (talk) 15:16, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

User:SteveBaker's example of fielding questions like "how long would it take to walk to the Sun or Mars?" indicated to me the uselessness of the Ref desk. Yes, he wasn't actually trying to make that point. I have since changed my support vote to clarify my stance. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:08, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Cool, thanks for clarifying. Looie496 (talk) 16:22, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

I was puzzled by that too. But you shouldn't base your ideas on the uselessness or otherwise of the Ref Desk on one example. I was merely defending the need to answer such questions - not that those kinds of question are in any way typical. You should actually check out a few day's of questions on places like the math, science and language desks. I think they will change your mind. SteveBaker (talk) 18:34, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Persecution of Biharis in Bangladesh

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GA Recruiter

Hi Chris! I saw you would like me to help you get started reviewing good articles. I'd be glad to help! Here's the page where we can get started. Let me know your interests and questions and we can go from there.

Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Recruiter Central/Archives/Chris troutman

Thanks! —Ed!^(talk) 00:57, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the Welcome

Hi Chris, Thanks for your warm welcome. I'll come back to your friendly offer to ask questions if necessary. Since I am not a native speaker, I will mainly restrict myself to data or links, not trying to write longer chapters. Something I was surprised of, are my talk pages and watchlists really separated per language? Nillurcheier (talk) 21:03, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, each is a separate wiki, just as sister projects like Wikiversity, Wiktionary, etc. incorporate separate user pages, talk pages, and watchlists though they can all be part of a unified account. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:37, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Stop abusing the unsourced templates

I'm adding the source and you are removing the source without reason. You are vandalizing the article with random unsourced banners. I think your right as administrator should be revoked over this abuse of reverting impulsively. 75.70.142.23 (talk) 08:09, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan. Please report me to WP:ANI. Chris Troutman (talk) 08:12, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

My point is stop being impulsive on articles you don't like or care much. You wouldn't add unsourced templates on articles you care about, so be respectful and think before you start randomly reverting edits. Assume good judgment. All of these Japanese articles have unsourced templates like English wikipedians hate Japan. It is not stated directly, but it indirect bias. 75.70.142.23 (talk) 08:16, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

I assure you there is no bias against Japan. Please look at my contributions. I've tagged dozens of articles in WikiProject History because they are stubs, they need more references, etc. Placing those templates puts the articles in hidden categories like Category:Articles lacking sources so they can get attention from editors and be improved. Articles that aren't tagged will be ignored and never improved unless someone stumbles upon them. Wikipedia is not about having pretty webpages, it's about making the best encyclopedia.

Regardless, I have reported you because of your conduct. If you had engaged in discussion first and heeded what editors are telling you, it wouldn't have had to come to this. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:33, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh, stop fighting. Everybody has a right to point out places where the encyclopedia can be improved. GeorgeLouis (talk) 16:38, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Serbia at the 2012 Summer Olympics

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Welcome to Wikipedia, but you might want to consider removing yourself from the service if you don't understand the purpose of RfCs as explained at WP:RFC. You perhaps might also need to refer to WP:NPA regarding use of ad hominem comments in discussion. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:35, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

HMS Medway (1928)

Hi Chris, I started reviewing this, but Sturm has told me you asked him if you could review it. If you want to jump in and finish the review, feel free. - Dank (push to talk) 00:43, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

OK. Thanks for letting me know. I'm training under User:Ed! to be a GA reviewer and he suggested I take an article like this. Chris Troutman (talk) 04:55, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I'm not sure what you're saying ... it sounds like you're just as happy reviewing another article, and if so, I'll finish this one up. - Dank (push to talk) 13:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

No. This one's mine. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:40, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Sure, thanks for doing that. - Dank (push to talk) 15:35, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter (July 2013)

ICHTHUS

July 2013

From the Editor

Welcome to the July 2013 issue of Ichthus. We focus on the chronology of Jesus, as well as looking back at the project content improved over the last month.

WP:X has gained another Featured Article, Gospel of the Ebionites, by Ignocrates. The Gospel of the Ebionites is the name scholars give to an apocryphal gospel that supposedly belonged to a sect known as the Ebionites. It consists of seven short quotations discovered in a heresiology known as the Panarion, written by Epiphanius of Salamis, and its original title remains unknown. The text is a gospel harmony composed in Greek, and is believed to have been written during the middle of the 2nd century.

St Mihangel's Church, Llanfihangel yn Nhowyn was promoted to Good Article status, as was two other welsh churches, St Enghenedl's Church, Llanynghenedl, and St Peter's Church, Llanbedrgoch.

The main page also featured several DYK hooks for articles in our project, namely Bob Fu, List of places of worship in Tandridge (district), Catholic Press, Garendon Abbey, St. John's Episcopal Church (Jersey City, New Jersey), Pargev Martirosyan, Praskvica Monastery, Heather Preceptory, St. Augustin, Coburg, Longleat Priory, St Mihangel's Church, Llanfihangel yn Nhowyn, St Enghenedl's Church, Llanynghenedl, Christianization of Moravia, Christianization of Bohemia, Repton Abbey, St Peter's Church, Llanbedrgoch, Medingen Abbey, Elmhurst Christian Reformed Church, St. James on-the-Lines, and Leopold Karl von Kollonitsch.

Church of the month

St. Michael's Golden-Domed Monastery is part of Saint Sophia's Cathedral, Kiev in Ukraine. It is a functioning monastery that dates back to the Middle Ages.

Membership report
The parent Christianity WikiProject currently has 367 active members. We would like to welcome our newest members, Newchildrenofthealmighty, Evenssteven, Kerna96, and FutureTrillionaire. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the Christianity noticeboard or with me or other individual editors to request it.

Focus on...

THE
HISTORICAL JESUS

When did Jesus live? When did he die? How do we know? We do, in fact, have excellent information about the time intervals for the life and death of Jesus. As in other people who lived and died in the first century, this gives an approximate date range, but still, give or take 3-4 years and we have pretty good estimates confirmed by a number of really diverse sources, ranging from inscriptions in Delphi to Roman and Jewish sources. The Chronology of Jesus article discusses how a wide variety of Christian, Jewish and Roman sources are used to establish the time-frame for the life and death of Jesus.

And all of his data fits together. For instance, the chronology of Paul had been discussed based on the Book of Acts long ago, then the Delphi Inscription is found in the 20th century in the Temple of Apollo. And guess what.. it confirms it and totally dates his trial in Corinth, which helps reaffirm the date of the crucifixion of Jesus. The same date range is independently estimated from the writings of Josephus on the Baptist's death. And it fits Isaac Newton's astronomical models for the crucifixion date as well as the independent lunar calculations of Humphreys. As that article shows, all these dates just fit together.

From the bookshelf

Chronos, kairos, Christos: nativity and chronological studies edited by J. Vardaman, E. M. Yamauchi 1989 ISBN 0-931464-50-1

This two volume book (with a very apt title) is gem-filled with scholarly research. Paul Maier's article in the first volume is a classic study on the chronology of Jesus and provides a useful summary of a number of issues.

Did you know...

... that the Russian journalist Nicolas Notovitch who in 1894 originated the story that there was evidence at the Hemis monastery that an adult Jesus had traveled to India, later confessed to fabricating his evidence?

Calendar
This month (July) contains the feast days of Mary Magdalene, and James, son of Zebedee.

Help requests
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from a variety of other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.

Ichthus is published by WikiProject Christianity.
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe remove yourself from the list here

EdwardsBot (talk)20:36, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

This issue was distributed on behalf of Gilderien, current editor of the Ichthus, at 20:36, 30 June 2013 (UTC). Comments and other feedback are always welcome at his talk page.