User talk:Clayoquot/Archive 5

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Thank you[edit]

for the lovely image. i like "taxonomy and evolution". i would contribute more, but have myself just returned from playing in the snow and barely have the strength for this: StellerSealionFamily.jpg. Best, Eliezg (talk) 07:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Otter encore[edit]

Thanks Clay. I think I have it covered with "Giant Otters clear significant amounts of vegetation in constructing their campsites. One report suggests maximum areas 28 m long and 15 m wide, well-marked by scent glands, urine, and feces to signal territory" in Distribution and habitat.

A Q on organization: where best to place Distribution? With Habitat, with Conservation, or on its own? I currently have it with the first but I don't like discussing the countries once, and then coming back to them again under Conservation. Marskell (talk) 11:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

That's always a tough one. One idea is:
  • Move this to the Taxonomy section: "The subspecies P. b. brasiliensis is distributed across the north of the range, including the Orinoco, Amazon, and Guianas river systems; to the south, P. b. paraguensis has been suggested in Paraguay, Uruguay, southern Brazil, and northern Argentina,[5] although it may be extinct in the last three of these four." The discussion on taxonomy should also explain how the subspecies are reported to differ.
  • Move this to Conservation: "The Giant Otter has lost as much as 80% if its South American range.[43] While still present in a number of north-central countries, Giant Otter populations are under considerable stress."
Realistically, you'll have to list countries at least twice in an article like this because many aspects of the topic are tied up with geography. Good luck! Best wishes, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 19:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, that rationalization makes sense and I've adopted it. I didn't want to lose the word "Distribution" in the ToC, but I have added it in a headline beside "Population." I think "Distribution" or "Range" should appear in the Sea Otter ToC, similarly.
You're really setting a new standard for mammal articles with that. It's superb. I just took Giant Otter to FAC and had thought "well, this can't be FA if it's not as long as Sea Otter." But the research just isn't there. I have squeezed out as much as I think a Wikipedia page logically needs. Marskell (talk) 20:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Marskell, your comments are deeply appreciated. When I started with Sea otter by putting up a few pictures, I had no idea how compelling the work would turn out to be. I don't know if I'll ever be that committed to an article again. I must say when I noticed you were working on Giant Otter I couldn't imagine what you saw in these animals, but after reading the article I appreciate them now. It's a good story, and well-told. Take care, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 05:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


Hi! I've just made myself a sleep-list, a one-man project, in my sandbox which you may look at if you like. It should keep me busy for a while. --Hordaland (talk) 07:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks for doing all this stuff! Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 17:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
P.S. My Sandbox contains, just now, only (only??) a draft of a (long) article. The To-be-dones and other lists of sleep-related stuff are now on my user page called Sleep. Just FYI. --Hordaland (talk) 12:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Mammal collab[edit]

OK, I'll set this up here - feel free to nominate and foraward to any other editor interested in furry critters. We'll see how it flies and I'll drop a note in the signpost.

Nominating key articles is ok, even if you can't work on them. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Copyrighted photos[edit]

I got permission from both of then to use their photos. Apparently that's not enough so I emailed asking them to allow their photos to be licensed under Creative Commons. Hopefully they'll respond quickly. Bobisbob (talk) 17:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Just so you know I am gonna replace that photo with a different one. I got permission from the copyright holder to use a different photo. I am just waiting for him to give the okay to Creative Commons. Bobisbob (talk) 23:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Sounds great :) Cheers, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 00:25, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

All the photos I upload and I got permission form the holder and forworded it to Bobisbob (talk) 15:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Sea otter conservation[edit]

Updated DYK query On 9 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Sea otter conservation, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 10:03, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

collaboration -to start the ball rolling[edit]

Image:LionChaseZebra-cropped.jpg listed for deletion[edit]

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:LionChaseZebra-cropped.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 06:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC) Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 06:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Replied at the discussion about the image you listed for deletion and two other images tagged for deletion at Lion. As you can see in my discussion at each, I agree with your proposal to delete them. Thanks for the notice and am glad someone took action about these images. The one you notified me about was one that, in order to prevent an edit war, I cropped to remove the copyright notice when another editor insisted upon inserting the image. Think there are plenty of appropriate images freely available for the article. Thanks again, 83d40m (talk) 23:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

copyrighted photo[edit]

I new to uploading pic on wikipedia so if merely getting permission from the copyright holder is not enough then do what with them. But I really thinkwe need photos to be put in their place notably the female buttocks one. wikicommons doesn't have any good ones.

the pic of the lion and the zebras was in fact released under CC by the owner and wikipedia gave them a thank you email so that can stay.

as for the orca/sea lion pic if it is from a BBC film then can't it be marked with fair use? Bobisbob (talk) 14:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

It would not be fair use in the Orca article. I have to run to work soon but will write more later. For the "Pat Orca" picture, who did you get permission from? The problem in this case is that whoever it was almost certainly wasn't the copyright holder. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 17:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Bob, one thing I can suggest is that you request a mentor who is knowledgeable about image policy. If you see an image somewhere that you think could be used on Wikipedia, you could send the link to your mentor and that person could give you an opinion on whether it is suitable, and could help you tag the image correctly. That would save you the frustration of uploading the image and then having it be deleted. Would you be willing to give this a try? Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 08:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Sure alright. Can you get me one. Bobisbob (talk) 21:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Great! You can start here Wikipedia:Adopt-a-User/Adoptee's Area. One of the people who seems experienced with images is User:JodyB. If you like you could drop him a note asking if he's willing to adopt you, and then you're set. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 07:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I sent him a message. He hasn't responsed yet. Is there anyone else? Bobisbob (talk) 22:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Try adding {{subst:dated adoptme}} to your user page, and someone should drop by. Good luck! Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 18:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Wickaninnish Inn[edit]

Hey Kla’quot! All the article said was:

The Wickaninnish Inn is a 75 room luxury resort located on the rocky headlands at the westernmost point of Tofino's Chesterman Beach, on the rugged west coast of Vancouver Island, British Columbia.

That was the whole article, and probably why I deleted it (hey, it was eight months ago!) Feel free to create a new version of this article, providing (of course!) it's reliably referenced and asserts why this inn is notable among other (lesser?) inns. If you can't do that, please don't create the article as it will end up getting deleted. You could work on it in your userpsace first if you think this might take time, and just move it when it's done. Providing there's notability shown and it's referenced, no problem with you making that red link blue again. Cheers, Neıl 09:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks for your help :) Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 16:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

This was kind of you. Thank you. SlimVirgin (talk)(contribs) 19:32, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Song Thrush[edit]

I've fixed the text as far as I can. It's not unusual for LC species to be protected - the default position in most countries is that all non-pest species are protected, except for quarry species during the hunting season.

Your image suggestions make sense, but I have two queries

  1. How can I invert the image to face the other way? My basic image editor appear only to let me rotate, which, of course, turns the bird upside down.
  2. How can I tell that those Flickr images are free and compatible with the GFDL - I can't see any obvious indication, and I don't want to run into copyright problems at FAC?

Thanks, Jimfbleak (talk) 06:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jim. Although photo-editing apps can give you the mirror image, I was think of just putting "left" instead of "right" or vice-versa in the wikimarkup. I.e. change the location of the image, not the image itself. I would usually not change an image of an animal into its mirror version, because many species have some form of left/right handedness or assymetric markings.
In Flickr, to the right of each photograph you can see a variety of details. One of the details is the copyright status. Usually it's "All rights reserved" but for some images you'll see "Some rights reserved." If you click on the "Some rights reserved" you can see more details. If the conditions allow modification and do not forbid commmercial use, it's Wikipedia-worthy (assuming the person who posted the photo actually took it). You can search for free-licensed pictures using - just select the three checkboxes at the bottom. More information, if you need it, is here: . Good luck! Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 07:10, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

award well deserved[edit]

Wildlife Barnstar (V5) Alt.png The Fauna Barnstar
To Clayoquot, for all her fine work on furry and not-so-furry critters, culminating in the damn fine Sea Otter.....Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:37, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Cas! Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 05:19, 2 March 2008 (UTC) (talk) 11:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

congratulations and thank you ...[edit]

... for the acknowledgements and the star thingy, though my contributions to the sea otter were at best like those of a page turner to your pianism. I've been rather scarce around these parts lately, since overwhelmed with research projects; but at least one of these involves movements of real sea otters around the olympic peninsula, so that's exciting. Anyways, bravo, bravo! - Eliezg (talk) 15:32, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Good questions, good article[edit]

Unlike an awful lot that's written on the matter, this is intelligent material.

I had never heard of this Marsden person till the article about her popped up on WP:AN/I or similar and I thought I'd give a hand. Still, that was some time before the Wales connection was brought up here. In the last couple of days, I've been making the various comments in Talk:Rachel Marsden, comments that I suppose might be read as saying that there's nothing to worry about, move along. But that's not at all what I think. Some things here are worrying indeed, quite unlike trivia such as who's broken up with whom and who's selling what on Fleabay.

I particularly appreciated the link to this page of yours. The word "blog" usually makes my eyes glaze, but it's postings like yours that redeem the notion of blogs. I've read that article of yours carefully and later I'll read it again; it's worth any number of other people's little harrumphs on this or that talk page. I hope it turns out to have some influence on Wikipedia, which indeed seems intent on whitewashing stuff that's significant about Marsden, and not only trivia about her. -- Hoary (talk) 09:46, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Hoary. I appreciate it! Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 17:41, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I also think you did a nice job of writing on the blog. It does shed some interesting perspective on this situation, and hopefully will lead to more transparency and better policies. I did add a bit however which might add some information which might not always be so obvious.

The American system is actually at its root quite different than the Canadian system. Canadians think they know the US from viewing it on TV and in the movies; their newspapers are full of American news. However, at its core, the US is a very very different place, for many reasons. The biggest, I would say, is that it is legal in the US to buy yourself your own laws. This is strictly forbidden in Canada, but it is a normal part of business in the US. And so, people see the US violate international trade agreements (like on BC timber) and cannot understand why. I will tell you why; someone bought that US decision. Same with the US relationship with Israel and Cuba and many other strange behaviors; they are bought and paid for. But from the outside, this might not be so obvious.--Filll (talk) 17:09, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the thoughtful blog and questions, Kla’quot. There's been a growing problem with handling of BLP cases, and there's clearly a need for reform. Hope this all works out, your research and insight have been an immense help already. .. dave souza, talk 23:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Hear, hear![edit]

Exactly what I would have said. So lame. Sigh. --JayHenry (talk) 08:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Polar Bear[edit]

I never was too big on furry things, rather than feathery, scaley or fungal ones...glad someone's taking up the baton and shouldn't need too much. Maybe this'd work better if there was a main player and helpers. I owe you one for help on various collabs so if you're willing to take the bull by the horns on this one I am happy to tag along and help out and you can decide when it's ready to nominate etc. Would you be okay with that? Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:46, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, yes! Right now I'm trying to make the article useful with respect to the proposed Endangered Species Act listing. It may be a while before I can pay attention to the parts on basic biology, and there is a whack of interesting stuff on indigenous myths and legends that needs to be added. Do you want to take a look at either of those? Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 22:53, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
I'll see what I can do. The biology stuff looks in better shape than I thought. Myths is good. I have found some indigenous American stuff can be rather sparse online. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:41, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) Looks more promising than Common Raven did anyway, am also working at the other pole on Emperor Penguin....Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I love Emperor Penguins! If you're planning to take that one to FA, can you let me know when it needs a copyedit? I'd be happy to help out. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 03:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
I have a monograph of all the penguins so I might work up a few of 'em (hehehe). I think I need another 2-3 weeks to finalise all the info and then I'll give you a hoy. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:09, 10 March 2008 (UTC)


interesting thread which may be helpful Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:09, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanksies Cas! If it's hard to find sources, don't worry as my local library has lots. I imagine Canadian libraries have more books on the polar bear than Australian ones, whereas you probably have more on the penguins. Cheers, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 16:32, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Phew! I am mightily relieved your library has something. I hate leaving out material I cannot reference. Speaking of which, I have developed Emperor Penguin up to a point and felt it was at a good staging point and qualified for GA status so plopped it there. GAN doesn't have a strict requirement about refs but I'll need refs for the pop culture things before FAC. Feel free to have a read through and copyedit anything that doesn't flow well, and let me know if you think anything glaring is missing. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

comment removing[edit]

It's (supposed to be) a harmless analogy. Sceptre (talk) 19:42, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I will reply on your Talk page to keep the thread together. Cheers, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 19:59, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

image cropping[edit]

How do I crop an image? Bobisbob (talk) 01:29, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Cropping is not difficult to do, but it's difficult to explain in text. It depends on what kind of computer you have and what software you have on it. I suggest asking someone you know in real-life instead, e.g. a friend who has photography as a hobby, as they could show you quite easily. By the way you might have missed my post above: If you are still interested, try adding {{subst:dated adoptme}} to your user page, and someone should drop by with an offer to adopt you. Best, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 04:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

What polar bears do in the summer[edit]

Grizzly bear
Teddy bear 27.jpg
Ursus arctos horribilis
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Ursidae
Genus: Ursus
Species: U. arctos
Subspecies: U. a. horribilis
Trinomial name
Ursus arctos horribilis
(Ord, 1815)
Leefgebied grizzlybeer.JPG
Range map

The sentence cracked me up, mainly due to this Aussie icon....[1]...there should be some funny ads on youtube too Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

You just made me think of an idea for April Fool's day. We could do a few of these (or lots?) What do you think? Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:24, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

XD or ROFL...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

  • [2] - 2 commericals
  • [3] - bundy bear at end

More bundy bear commercials....

  • [4] and another...
Thank you, although I barely understand the English in some of them. Must re-watch later. :) Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 08:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Richard Dawkins[edit]

Hello Clayoquot. How are you? Please see the biography of Richard Dawkins. How do you rate the biography? Do you think it is ready for the FA status? Regards, Masterpiece2000 (talk) 13:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Masterpiece. I'm just catching up on wiki stuff after being busy for the past few days, but will try to take a look in the next day or two. If not, I'll definitely drop by when it's at FAC. Good luck! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi again. I took a closer look, and it's a very interesting article with lots of great information and solid referencing. The main areas that still could use attention, I think, are the Evolutionary Biology section and copyediting. In the Evolutionary Biology section, a lot of deep ideas come thick and fast and a general audience would probably not be able to grasp it. I think it is fair to assume that people have a rough idea of what evolution, natural selection, and genes are. Most people would not know about things like spandrels, group selection, Darwin Wars, and units of selection. These concepts could use further explanation. In terms of copyediting, here are some examples:
    • Unnecessary use of quotation marks, e.g. "overstates the case against religion" doesn't need quotes
    • David Nicholls (writer) - why not just "David Nicholls"
    • "which has achieved greater sales figures worldwide than any of his other works to date" - could be compressed to "which is his best-selling work"
    • Gould referred to by last-name-only, and then later by full name. The full name should be used first.
My feeling is that in its current form, it would not breeze through FAC, however as this is a popular topic you could probably find one or two people to join your team and get it there with a bit of extra work. It's very close to meeting criteria. I sure wish I had the time and energy for this one! I'm not a regular at FAC, so please take these comments with a grain of salt. Good luck! Best, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 06:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

See your picture[edit] (talk) 11:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Cool, thanks for letting me know. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 22:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


In case you're not watching: the support group link has been removed from DSPS. --Hordaland (talk) 12:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm watching :) Thanks for the note though. I had to think about this one. Do you know if the niteowl list itself has been discussed in any reliable sources? If yes, it could be mentioned in the actual article. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 22:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
We're not too PR-minded, but we oughta be. I'll try pushing. --Hordaland (talk) 23:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps one of the physicians on the list would be willing to say something about it on the website of the hospital or university where they work. That would count. Research-oriented professionals may also find it appropriate to mention the list in a scholarly journal. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 02:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Meet up[edit]

Inquiry. Was this meet up for the WikiProject Vancouver and its members or for the UBC division who had been doing the collaboration on the Latin America articles? Mkdwtalk 06:59, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Everyone, I hope! Do you want to take the lead in setting it up? If not, I could do it. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 07:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm setting up Wikipedia:WikiProject Vancouver/Meetup 2008 as we speak... Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 07:26, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice about the meetup; I'll try to make it. Hopefully the turnout will be better than the one person that showed up when I tried this in Sept. 2005. Eclecticology (talk) 16:38, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I hope so too! And I do hope you'll make it. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 03:34, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the invite. I'll be there =) OldManRivers (talk) 16:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the invite, I will be there if I can manage to exchange phone number with someone. Aquarius • talk 19:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi AQu01rius. Sorry, I don't understand. Why do you need a phone number? Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 04:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Orca attacks on humans[edit]

I have nominated Orca attacks on humans, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Orca attacks on humans. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 04:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Ursus maritimus[edit]

Hey, Clayoquot, I just saw all of your hard work at polar bear; it looks fantastic! I especially like the addition of Knut's stamp, which I discovered at the Commons just the other day. Please do let me know if/when the article appears at Peer Review or FAC, as I'd love to help in any way I can. Although I know nothing about biology/taxonomy, the polar bear has always been my favorite animal and I'd appreciate an excuse to geek out about them. :) Keep up the cute and fuzzy great work, María (habla conmigo) 16:02, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks María! Yes, I'll be sure to let you know when I think it's ready. The cubs sure are cute... I need to add some pictures of adult males to the article to balance all the mom+baby pictures that I couldn't resist. Cheers! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 16:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Sea Otters[edit]

Today I took few images of sea otter using a rock to break a shell Sea Otteruses a rock to break a shell open 2.jpg. It is a rare, hard to photograph behavior. IMO one of the images would add value to the article because the article describes this kind of behavior. May I please ask you what do you think? Thank you--Mbz1 (talk) 00:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the picture is useful, and you were lucky to take it. I don't know why it got reverted. The article is quite picture-heavy at the moment but I think it's a good addition. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 02:49, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you!--Mbz1 (talk) 02:58, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


Hi there, I wish to apologise for being stubborn and not realizing the fact that you were right, and I was wrong. I am so sorry. Really. I hope you understand. If there was a Barnstar of apology, or something like that, because then I would give you it. Sorry! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Camcd93 (talkcontribs) 08:51, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your note; it fixes things. Take care, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 15:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

RE: Your Warning[edit]

I didn't mean to do that, I did not realise this was defamatory that I restored. Besides, you can't give me that high a level warning straight away, as I did not have any other warnings previously. Thankyou. Camcd93 (talk) 04:36, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

LAC Images[edit]

Hi, I left a long answer at my talk. I hope I didn't say anywhere that this would be easy ;)

If you do want to work on it, note your work on each image on my PictureBox page, we can keep track of our work and compare notes. Once I work up a little procedure, I'll update the pbox and post to CWNB looking for more help. Cheers! Franamax (talk) 20:07, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Just to say hai[edit]

Have a great day ! -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 10:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

RfA thanks![edit]

Solo Dios Sabe.jpg RfA: Many thanks
Many thanks for your participation in my recent request for adminship. I am impressed by the amount of thought that goes into people's contribution to the RfA process, and humbled that so many have chosen to trust me with this new responsibility. I step into this new role cautiously, but will do my very best to live up to your kind words and expectations, and to further the project of the encyclopedia. Again, thank you. --jbmurray (talkcontribs) 05:43, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


Aww... thanks for the barnstar. That really made my day when I logged on the site! I went through a long spell of Wikiworthlessness but I've been pretty productive again the last several weeks. I'm thinking about even tackling an animal again which I haven't done in awhile. When are you taking Polar Bear to FAC?? --JayHenry (talk) 01:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

My pleasure, of course! I haven't edited much in the past couple of weeks because of vacation and then post-vacation. There are some other wikithings I'd like to catch up on, taking a bit of a break from Polar Bear, and then I think it will need a few hundred more edits. It's quite a complex topic and the latest news from the U.S. is so, er, nuanced that I get a metaphorical headache just thinking about how to write it :( Take care and see you around! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 03:49, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Peter Wall[edit]

Hiya. Thanks for helping out with this. FWIW, I added the "declines to give his age" quotation to show why the article doesn't include a date of birth, as most bio articles do. But no biggie at all. --jbmurray (talkcontribs) 03:39, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The protection[edit]

I suspected it might have been, but no matter. :) You're welcome for the protection. Best wishes. Acalamari 16:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Descanso or Taylor?[edit]

Hi Clayoquot. User:Jeffersonbennett has raised a question on the Gabriola Island talk page about one of your photos, Image:Taylor Bay Gabriola.JPG. He says the photo seems to be of Descanso Bay rather than Taylor Bay. Although Taylor Bay appears in the image name, your description summary says "Descanso Bay". I'm not familiar enough with the island to know which is correct or whether both might be correct. Can you enlighten us? Thanks. Finetooth (talk) 02:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Pfly has answered the question. No need to reply. Thanks again. Finetooth (talk) 04:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


I'm sending this to all the wikiproject:mammals participants. There's a naming guideline up for discussion on the talk page, and the more people get involved the more valid any consensus drawn. Ironholds 19:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

North Shore Rescue[edit]

Updated DYK query On 3 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article North Shore Rescue, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 14:29, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Sleep diary[edit]

Sleep diary.jpg

Hello again. Once upon a time, seems very long ago, you uploaded a drawing to Commons for me, a procedure which is still too daunting for me. Could you do it again with a very simple drawing to illustrate what a sleep diary may look like? ---If you think my drawing isn't too untraditional - it's the format I use. Is it possible to pick it up from that page, or shall I send it (done in Paint, as last time)? Thank you. --Hordaland (talk) 12:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi Hordaland, sure I can help. I'll need to indicate a license. E.g. do you want to release it into the public domain? Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 06:08, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
It occurred to me (late) that you might ask that. It is totally my own drawing, loosely based on the detailed, printed scheme from the Sleep Center I go to in Norway. I happily donate it to the world, aka public domain. It can illustrate a couple of WP articles, and maybe even help someone. Thank you very much! --Hordaland (talk) 10:05, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Cool. I've put it on Commons. Here you go - thanks for releasing it and I'm sure it will help someone! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 15:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks!!!!! --Hordaland (talk) 22:04, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


dlph-4 Kkkkk'kk oook reeeee eeee'kk squeek ack.

What can I say? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

(Giggle!) Cheers! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 20:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Another Vancouver meetup?[edit]

I was wondering if you want to plan another meetup since I wasn't there for the last one because of living my so-called "real-life". If you are interested, can we please pick a location on the east side of Vancouver? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24[c] 07:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi there. I'm not planning to organize a meetup myself soon, but by all means go ahead and organize one. Good luck! Happy Thanksgiving, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 02:48, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Image:Gull attacking sea otter.jpg[edit]

Hi Clayoquot, I put my image back to sea otter. Of course gulls do not prey on sea otters, they try to get the food sea otters gets. IMO it is an interesting action shot. Gulls are ever present, when sea otters feed. If you remove the image again, it is OK, I will not put it back anymore. Thank you.--Mbz1 (talk) 04:21, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Mbz1. I agree the photo is interesting. One reason I removed it is that I think the sea otter article has enough, possibly too many, pictures already. I recently found some excellent photos of mother-pup nursing, and if we have another picture, I think it should be one of those. Another reason is that the gull is not trying to harm or eat the sea otter, so it does not belong in a section on predators. So I'm afraid I still think it's better to remove the picture. Thanks for your note, and take care, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 06:59, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Images in sea otter article[edit]

Hello Clayoquot. May I please share my opinion about images in sea otter? Not because I want my gull image to be in. It is your desision and I respect it, and I do not really care so much about the image. I only would like to improve the article.
1. Image:CalifCentralCoast.jpg What value this image adds to the article? Of course sea otters live in the ocean. IMO the California Coast article might have been link to sea otter instead of displayed the image in the article.
2. The article has four images of mothers with pups. They all are really cute, but do we really need four? If you found the one with a pup nurcing why do not replace one of the four?
3. Image:OilSheenFromValdezSpill.jpeg It is a very low resolution image which show oil spill (I myself took much better image of oil spill). IMO once again it is enough to link to the oil spill article instead of displaying image in sea otter article.
4. Image:Kelp-forest-Monterey.jpg I am not sure about this one, but I believe once again we should consider linking it to kelp article instead of displaying image.

Once again I just wanted to share my opinion.Thank you for your time.--Mbz1 (talk) 16:12, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi again Mbz1, thanks for sharing. I wish I had more time to chat right now, but my day has been super-busy and I'm very tired, so I'll have to get back to you later this week. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 07:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
OK, here goes: I chose the images that I added for the sea otter article in order to illustrate a variety of important aspects of the subject, and also taking into account picture quality and aesthetic appeal. Habitat, prey, and conservation threats are important aspects of the subject, and so I think they are worthy of illustration. Having a picture with a caption draws the reader's attention to these aspects that do need more attention; speaking very generally, the public tends to overestimate the conservation importance of direct killing of animals (i.e. hunting), and tends to underestimate the importance of habitat conservation and the food web. Having a variety of pictures also makes the article easier on the eyes and less monotonous.
Regarding the gull picture, it would be a great addition to the kleptoparasitism article (in fact I think I'll add it right now), however I don't see this as being a particularly important aspect of understanding sea otters. Gulls steal from a wide variety of species, and the sea otter literature, as far as I know, doesn't say much about the threat posed to sea otters by gulls. Kelp and oil spills are much more significant aspects of sea otter life.
I think your point about replacing one of the mother-pup photos with a nursing photo is a good one though. I'll go do it. Best, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 04:36, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

North American River Otter[edit]

I am currently involved in the development of an AP Biology project that utilizes Wikipedia as a platform for the task. The article I am working with is North American River Otter. The challenge is getting the article to receive Good Article status. However, my ultimate goal is to get my article promoted to Featured Article status. It is a challenging task, but I am confident it is possible to accomplish. This is our project center: Wikipedia:WikiProject AP Biology 2008.

Upon discovering that you were the top contributor for the FA Sea Otter, I was hoping you could provide some insight about how I could pursue the same goal with Northern River Otter. The first steps have been taken: the article has undergone some development and it is up for peer review. Do you have any other suggestions?

Thank you and best regards, --Wikitrevor (talk) 19:30, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Wikitrevor. There are lots of great essays about what an FA looks like, so I won't repeat that. I can make some suggestions about the process: how to break up the work into manageable pieces. With Sea otter I found it very helpful to start with children's books. The quality of recent children's books can be excellent, and often a zoology professor is the author or co-author. One or two of these aimed at a grade 5 or so reading level will, in a short time, give you a good overview of the subject and let you easily add lots of citations for the basics. Adult reference books then help you fill in the details: Look for ones with simple titles like "River Otters" - these are going to have useful and well-organized information.
Another very useful resource, if you can find one, is a species overview page from a U.S. Federal Government website, because if it's in the public domain (most are), you can copy and past without violating copyright. Crib mercilessly from public domain sources. Other zoology sources I really like are the IUCN, National Geographic and the New York Times.
The above sources could get you about 80 or 90% of the way there. Then for recent research - particularly around conservation issues and evolutionary history - you will probably have to go to Google Scholar and perhaps news sources. The IUCN's report is the keystone of information about conservation issues. I guess the main theme in all of this is to start with sources that are of high quality but general, and then move towards more specific sources. It will give you confidence that you're neither overemphasizing nor neglecting any particular aspect of the topic, and it will give you momentum. I hope this helps and am looking forward to watching the article develop! Best, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 07:06, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


Eek! Thanks for letting me know <embarrassed>. Ceoil (talk) 19:57, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

You removed the image because you think it might be illegal?[edit]

Well, apperantly it is not. The Elkhorn Slough National Estuarine Research Reserve site says: "A favorite way to see the slough is in a kayak or canoe. Paddling just above the water level, you can come face to face with a mischievous sea otter swimming on its back".As you could see from the images otters rest comfortobally and do not pay atention to kayak. As a matter of fact I saw a safari boat almost as close as the kayak was to sea otters, and I tend to believe that the tour operators know the rules, otherwise they could have lost their license. Thanks.--Mbz1 (talk) 02:14, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

The caption said, "Kayaks are often used to get closer to sea otters". The kayakers are moving towards the otters instead of staying in one place and waiting for the otters to approach if the otters choose to. I don't know how the safari boat operators you saw got so close to the otters on that particular day, but commercial tour operators do inadvertently harass marine mammals sometimes even if they know the rules. It happens.
See here for more on marine mammal viewing guidelines: . And here too: : "Remain at least 100 yards from marine mammals." Guidelines vary somewhat between regions but 100 yards (or metres) is a commonly cited minimum approach distance. "Sea otters are slow moving animals compared to other marine species... It’s easy to severely harass them just by innocently watching them from a boat. They’re a species to stay well back from.”[5] Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 02:40, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
I saw at least 6 kayaks next to sea otters (sometimes 2-3 at the time) last time I was there. Were they all doing illegal things? I've never used a kayak there myself. I watch otters from shore. Sometimes I watch them for hours grooming, diving, resting just below the rocks or a pier I am standing on. Many people fishing there from shore, but otters do not seem to care and come very close to fishermen. Once a mother with a baby came right to me like they wanted to say "hi". Not me came to them, they came to me, to the place I was staying, and, where there were no other otters nearby. Who knows, maybe they used to people down there. I know one cannot approach harbor seals closer thant 200 feet. I've never heard such regulations about otters. BTW have you seen this image Image:Sea otters at Moss Landing.jpg that I posted on sea otter talk page. Do you know what are they doing? Thanks.--Mbz1 (talk) 03:54, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Kayak and sea otters.jpg
Please don't interpret any of my comments as implying that you or people you were with, or people that you saw, have done something illegal. What I said is that the activity shown in the picture, and as described in the caption that went with it, may be illegal. It is illegal in many places, including the U.S., to disturb marine mammals. Approaching any marine mammal, including sea otters, at close range is very likely to cause the animal to be disturbed. In most areas it's not technically illegal if it doesn't disturb the animal, however boaters can't tell whether they're breaking the law until after they've broken it - that is, when the animal moves away or acts stressed. That is why viewing guidelines exist: to prevent people from breaking the law. If we show this image on Wikipedia we should not present it as a normal, harmless activity. If we show it, it should be described as an example of what not to do, however that would not be nice to the people who are in the picture who are recognizable. I hope you understand.
I saw the pictures on the sea otter talk page and can't figure out what they're doing, sorry. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 02:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Sea otter nursing[edit]

Sea otter nursing02.jpg
Your Featured picture candidate has been promoted
Your nomination for featured picture status, Image:Sea otter nursing02.jpg, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. MER-C 05:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry[edit]

Hi, Clayoquot. I'm sorry for my latest edit summary in sea otter. I guess I wanted to point out that in California sea otters and humans often find themselves in a very close proximity, and that this might be OK. Anyway I should not have write the edit summary as I did and once again I am sorry about this. BTW the latest image I added to the article is a low quality one and I believe the article will not loose much, if the image is removed. So, if you'd rather remove the image, please go ahead. I found this article that might be interesting for you to read. Thanks.--Mbz1 (talk) 15:18, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry no more[edit]

I wrote the above messge before I read your comment on sea otter talk page. Now I am sorry no more, but I'd like to thank you. See, I'm making the list of the reasons why I should stop contributing to Wikipedia, and your comment about images being more or less "aesthetically pleasing" would make another great reason for my list! Please do not worry. I'm not going to edit sea otter, sea otter talk and your talk ever again. Cheers.--Mbz1 (talk) 20:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)