User talk:Colin MacLaurin/Archive 1

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Welcome!

Hello, Colin MacLaurin, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 

If you are interested you may want to become involved in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Seventh-day Adventist Church which aims specifically to improve Seventh-day Adventist related pages.

Cheers, Ansell 06:13, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Welcome!

User:Wikihermit/Christ --TTalk to me 22:48, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi!

Hey Colin. We have met before at Avondale actually (look me up in last year's jac - I did a BSc/BTch (Hons)). Good to see other Avondalians on wikipedia. Have fun. --Fermion 06:21, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello

Hey Colin, Great meeting you and thanks for taking us around Avondale. Globalphysics 07:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Greetings

Hey, just thought I'd give you another welcome to wikipedia. Its great to have you here. I was just thinking that, as a theology student, you may be able to lend me some assistance with the History of the Seventh-day Adventist Church article. Your textbook for "Adventist History and Heritage" Lightbearers should prove to be a useful aid, along with many of the other resources for that course. I hope you continue to enjoy editing wikipedia and have a good day also. Regards, MyNameIsNotBob 10:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

thanks

thanks for making that edit on User:BenMcLean/naming --BenMcLean 23:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

G'day (from Tonic)

Hi Colin! I'm interested to see that you're studying at Avondale. I know several people who have studied there over the years. I live in Melbourne (Vic) and was brought up in an SDA family. Glad to see your contribution to the SDA articles, and look forward to more. Cheers, Tonicthebrown 13:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Colin. I've noticed you've started editing Wikipedia again. Does this mean you're back home? How was the trip? While you were away I decided I'd try and fulfil MyNameIsNotBob's attempt to achieve featured article status for the SDA church article. Hence I've done a lot of editing of the content to improve prose, clarity, etc. Do you think it's approaching the required standard? Cheers Tonicthebrown 22:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello again, Colin. Good work on the SDA Theology article. Just letting you know I've made some rearrangements there. FYI I've also added a citation re EGW and other worlds, from Early Writings (creationism section). Oh and I noticed your endorsement of Wild at Heart (book) - I've been meaning to get that book and read it for some time now. Started studying at Ridley last week, doing 3 subjects (Early church history, OT traditions and Gospels). It is absolutely fantastic, praise God! Will try not to let wikipedia addiction get in the way of my essays! (6500 words total this semester) Tonicthebrown 11:30, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Tonic. Yes, I am a big fan of Wild at Heart, and have introduced many friends to it, but there are certainly some people out there who are very opposed to it! Hope you enjoy it. I'm sure you'll enjoy your time at Ridley College. Church history is interesting, and I believe we can learn a lot from the past, e.g. there were massive debates/tension over whether Christ was divine or human and how much - now we simply say He was both! I hope that people today can learn to appreciate something good about other opinions. For example, tension between Calvinism and Arminianism. I follow my favourite Adventist theologian Alden Thompson in seeing that there are good points in both, and also potential weaknesses and both have sociological consequences. Yeah I have to watch my Wikipedia addiction as well - I feel driven to improve the NPOV (as I see it) of certain articles, but as this is being completed I need to cut back my contributions. I start studying in a few days. God bless your time there, and I'll be interested to know more. Speak to you soon, Colin MacLaurin 12:32, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

fundamental beliefs

I did not notice that the section was under official websites of sda. But I think there is nothing wrong in palicng the website under references for schisms and offshoots since this is where it is belong and additional reference would be an excellent contribution, Especially that it provides a direct comparison of the beliefs. I thin the webiste is in its right place now. Thank you. regards —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.104.197.52 (talkcontribs) 12:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC) – Please sign your posts!

Template:Bibleverse discussion

I think you want {{bibleverse-nb}} (where nb is no-book presumably). Cheers, Ansell 22:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Ansell! It does the trick perfectly. -Colin MacLaurin 23:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Taizé Community

Colin, I noticed your interest in Taizé and was curious, so followed the links. I ended up downloading some of the music. Beautiful! I have long maintained there is a place for liturgy in worship and this only confirms it! Whenever I mention it in Adventist circles not many people agree with me though! Blessings, -Fermion 23:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Michael Chamberlain and leaders category

I still disagree with your removal of Michael Chamberlain from the Category:Seventh-day Adventist leaders. According to the category header, which could be under discussion itself, the category is for "This category lists leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, including founders, ministers, administrators, theologians, writers (of church-related literature) and preachers." I see his former position as an Adventist minister to fit into that schema. Ansell 02:39, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ansell, I just noticed your message. Michael was listed in both leaders and the church categories. When I made the change, I considered what he was most notable for - and of course it's the legal incident and not his pastoral work. He could fit into leaders I guess - I don't mind but I don't think he belongs in both. Cheers, Colin MacLaurin 02:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC).

Elihu

I noticed that you found the Elihu tract on Wikisource. Thanks for adding the category. It took some time to find the tract. Another tract that I would really like to see in the Web is Joseph Bates' work "the Sabbath - a perpetual sign" which was another influential piece of literature that was published by the adventist pioneers. So far I have not found a way to get a scan. Neither the German Adventist university Friedensau nor the Austrian seminary at Bogenhofen have a copy. Do You have any idea how to get a scan of that book. (Besides: the book seems to be published in two versions, so one might have to scan both.) Greetings from Hamburg, Heiko Evermann 14:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Christmas Greetings

Colin, thank you for the Christmas greetings. I happened to see you yesterday when I paid a visit to the grounds of Avondale College. Hope you enjoy the final weeks of your studies for 2006 and have a fantastic festive season. I'll probably see you up in Yarrahapinni? Cheers, MyNameIsNotBob 10:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Colin for your very kind Christmas message. All the best with your exams and overseas travel, and I wish you a happy Christmas too. I've appreciated working together with you on the SDA wikipedia articles over these last few months. Tonicthebrown 12:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Colin, thank you for the Christmas greeting. I trust you too will enjoy a Happy Christmas and will find opportunity to share the Blessed Hope with someone over this festive season. -Fermion 06:56, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Smiley Award

Feel free to place this award on your user page, as a token of appreciation for your contributions. If you're willing to help spread the good cheer to others, please see the project page for the Random Smiley Award at: User:Pedia-I/SmileyAward

User:Pedia-I/SmileyAward5

Disambiguations

When you moved Ángel Rodríguez to Ángel Rodríguez (disambiguation) you actually did the reverse of wikipedia convention. (see Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Page naming conventions) —MJBurrageTALK • 21:07, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Need help!

G'day Colin. Do you have some time? There is a major war going on at Talk:Seventh-day Adventist Church. Two users, EShubee and Maniwar, look like they're about to kill each other. I've tried to mediate but all that achieved was getting some of the anger turned on myself. Do you reckon you could step into the discussion with me and help cool things down? Thanks! Tonicthebrown 14:17, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Tonicthebrown, please represent this correctly. There is no malice going on my part. I am trying to keep you true to wikipedia and as far as E.Shubee, Colin is very familiar with him. I think you misrepresented me here, and that is not warranted. Colin and other editors can see my edits and my comments to not only you, but also to E.Shubee and 1christian. I do encourage Colin to participate as well as other editors though. --Maniwar (talk) 15:10, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Tonic, thanks for letting me know. My watchlist did show me that a lot of edits were being made, however I had not read them so I was not aware. Maniwar, I didn't assume anything bad about you (or E.Shubee for that matter) when I read Tonic's post, so don't worry. I'll catch up on the discussion, and plan any contributions by considering Wikipedia policies, and not by looking at the people involved. Cheers, Colin MacLaurin 22:10, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually Colin, on second thoughts, perhaps you should stay out of it. I really don't think the dispute is productive. I'm trying to back off myself. Tonicthebrown 06:11, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Sdalogo2.PNG)

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Help

I am posting this at a couple other pages. I have to be careful and not break the WP:3RR on Seventh-day Adventist Church‎ because of some biased edits. I would like to ask a few of you to help monitor it. I've basically been following protocol of other pages I edit. The editors will not allow links unless they lend value to the article and I am sticking to this with the Adventist article as well. There is a current discussion, however two editors feel compelled to usurp the consensus and stick in their edits. If you wish to weigh in and keep control, I welcome it. I must step back as I wish to not break the 3RR rule. Thanks--Maniwar (talk) 03:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Pages to Catgorize

Here are two more wikipages that you may want to catagorize: Daniel's Vision of Chapter 7 and Daniel's Vision of Chapter 8 Allenroyboy 23:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

MoralesBadui

Hey, i am a Seventh day Adventist from Puerto Rico, nice to know there are other adventist working in Wiki!!Morales Badui 00:43, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I will take your adviseMoralesBadui 21:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes I am an SDA Church member since I was born (second generation) and I have 20 years, also I am the Director of the Youth department in my church. I will be glad to share information about the work ofd the church in PR —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Morales badui (talkcontribs) 12:58, 24 February 2007 (UTC).

Adventist image

The image of Miller in the Adventist template, I think it should be changed by a more nowaday related image of the Seventh day Adventists, please correct me if I am wrong. MoralesBadui 00:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

MCC

What do you think about this?? MoralesBadui00:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

What can i do to have my image available in wikipedia, eaven if i dont have any license for it. I am talking about the image of Planet Hope's logo. Please answer in my talk page. Thank you MoralesBadui 18:25, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

ThanksMorales Badui 03:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Note on my talk page

User:Awalper left a note on my talk page that I am pretty sure was meant for you. [1]

Hello Colin,

Thanks for taking the time to wikify my addition to the Wikipedia on A.T. Jones. This is my first time playing this game and I didn't know how to format everything correctly. It looks much more professional now! Blessings! Ann

Ansell 21:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

3 angels message

I didn't remove large amounts of text, just the places where the "SDA church thinks of itself as the remnant church" idea was repeated. I was alarmed when I saw that. I thought it was put there by enemies, but then I thought it might have been a new convert and I felt bad.. :-S

Then there was the line: "It is a call to Christians everywhere to leave their sins ("Babylon") behind them and give them up."

That's an origional reference. I've never even heard of such an interpretation.

Then the intro: "The messages have special significance for the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which considers them to be a summary of its mission to the world."

That's ok, but there's too much focus on the SDA church. The 3 angels' messages are for the whole world. So I swapped it for this:

"It is a Seventh-day Adventist teaching that these messages are to prepare the world for the second coming of Christ."

  • Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
  • Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
  • John 3:16 ".. for God so loved the world"

So these 4 things I felt needed serious attention.

  1. The introduction.
  2. The repetition of the remnant idea.
  3. Lack of bible interpretation and a misinterpretation right off the bat.
  4. Some ideas are too broad so they need their own artical.

I worked on this until late at night. I wanted to clean it up and add some references and fix the POV, but I was just too tired. So I made a plan to come back to it later, but the next day it was rolled back.

I would like to help with an artical called: "Babylon Mother of Harlots", and then a simple summary and redirect in this artical. This topic is so general, I don't think it's a good place to mention RC and get all into that..

Hey Colin, I posted this at the articles talk page, but I do think there are some valid points there, and definately worth looking at. --Maniwar (talk) 15:44, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I appriciate the work you guys have been doing, and I don't mean to interfere. This is good stuff we have here. We're sittin on a gold mine of knowlege, and if we can find suitable ways to share it, many people will be very glad to discover it, even on such a medium as this.

Luke 21:15 "For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist."

Rev 18:1 "And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory."

Rush4hire 15:04, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Newcastle Wikipedia meetup?

There's only four of us. Do we want to get together sometime? Please reply at my talk page ==One Salient Oversight 07:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Vegetarian?

If you're an SDA training to be a minister then I'm assuming you're a vegetarian. I'll try to make sure any place we end up going to has a vegetarian meal. --One Salient Oversight 12:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Date for Meetup needed

Can you please go back to Wikipedia:Meetup/Newcastle and indicate in the relevant section a preferred date. If you haven't done so already, could you also suggest a meeting place like a restaurant or cafe?

--One Salient Oversight 23:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Reminder: It's on. --One Salient Oversight 11:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you assist me?

I'm just starting out. Can you check out what I've done? I'm really green at this. Thanks Momefarley 13:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for what you've done! The other lady helping edit is the director of advancement here. She might be green at Wikipedia, but at least she has the data. And she understands how it needs to be NPOV. What do you think so far? Can you help us set up a Info box? I'm not sure how.... Thanks! Momefarley 13:46, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

User page feedback

I have invited a few people to give me feedback about my user page. Colin MacLaurin 13:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Colin. The rules for user pages allow for expressions of personal beliefs and links to personal websites, and other personal info. As long as it stays there you probably won't get into trouble. If your interactions stray off (article) topic on talk pages, and you are perceived as using Wikipedia for evangelizing your beliefs, then you could get complaints. Just keep your personal religious beliefs separate from your editing duties here and you probably won't get into trouble. -- Fyslee/talk 20:04, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi Colin. I've had a quick look at the page, and read the first few paragraphs. Aesthetically it looks great and I like the way you have written. When my exams are over, I'd like to read through more carefully and give you more feedback then. Cheers Tonicthebrown 08:32, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi Colin. You have a very interesting user page. I liked reading it. In my opinion, you are better off stating up front what you stand for, and then allowing others to make a decision whether your work is providing balance to the consensus. It annoys me this assumption that religious people are unable to contribute because of their bias. I think you are doing the right thing! Fermion 01:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Hey, it looks good to me. Showed me a few articles I didn't know exist which is definitely a good thing. I havn't seen any of your personal beliefs skewing your editing towards a non-neutral solution so that hasn't been an issue for me. I think a neutral editor who actually wanted to know where you were coming from in a discussion as opposed to someone who was out to incriminate you from the outset would benefit from the way your page is set out. I hope to get back here sometime when my PhD and work commitments allow. Ansell 03:24, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your responses so far! I don't feel satisfied with the introductory section, at the moment. I imagine I will use some of the page content later for MySpace or my own website if I ever make one, so your feedback will have wider influence than just Wikipedia. Cheers, Colin MacLaurin 05:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Sabbath merge

Feel free to merge Ahn Shi Il into Unification Church, especially if you can use the pound sign trick so that members looking up the next sabbath date will go right to the correct section! :-) --Uncle Ed 16:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Copyright problem with Sangford Schools

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If you would like to begin working on a new version of the article you may do so at Talk:Sangford Schools/Temp. Leave a note at Talk:Sangford Schools saying you have done so and an administrator will move the new article into place once the issue is resolved. Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Alvestrand 21:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't write the article. As the first edit states, "(created article from content on [[Preschool], which had formerly been a redirect. (Negligible edit history lost))". I merely moved someone else's content to a new page, as they had overwritten Preschool (I assumed good faith). Colin MacLaurin 14:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

June 2007 Wikiproject Christianity Newsletter

June 2007 Automatically delivered by HermesBot

oi party

be there ya bugger it's michael , this saturday (30th june) 8pm.

the usual place, should be a big one.

Hey

Hey, you all are being quiet on the Amazing Facts article and the articles talk page. Don't know if you've been watching, but I've been fighting a few POV edits and loaded sentences. Can you add anything to the conversations in lieu of a consensus? I think that would quell the issues. Thanks! --Maniwar (talk) 01:06, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello Colin

I've been having a wikibreak lately which means that your post about our conversation didn't get noticed. Many apologies about that!

My opinions of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement are quite strong and I take a very "hard" line towards them. At the same time I believe that all those who call Jesus as Lord are saved (including P/Cs) and that God works amongst P/Cs.

I've been convinced that the reformed doctrine of Sola Scriptura is inherently biblical and Christian. Put simply, it is the belief that the Bible is God's only authoritative guide for living and for believing. Since the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, those who rely upon the Bible only to determine what is right and wrong, or to determine what to believe and what not to believe, are actually following the Spirit's guidance.

P/Cs do not believe this. They use personal experience as an important guide. They believe that, through feelings, visions and other subjective forms, God will guide. They will make decisions about what God wants according to how they perceive his will. Although subjectivity is not discounted amongst Christians who believe in Sola Scriptura, the reliance upon these forms of guidance result in (in my opinion), bad theology and bad Christian behaviour.

This belief in subjective guidance also makes P/Cs more likely to follow the teachings and example of their pastors and leaders. They perceive these men as being God's anointed, and willingly follow their teaching and example. This might be alright if they believed and acted biblically... but too often this is not the case.

Regarding Hillsong, here's a recent comment from a blogger I visit:

They often spoke of the gospel in terms of empowering people, hence the use of anointing to *empower* people to perform unspecified 'great things'. It was only until the end of the meeting that anyone mentioned Jesus and presented the gospel in a Biblical sense. Yet the timing of the presentation of the gospel created the feeling that the only reason why God saves us is to give us power. It's not about bringing us into submission to his good and holy purpose or to take away the sin that rots our core, or to heed God's word but to have power. Many times Brian said "God believes in you", while at the same saying that we need to believe in his son Jesus.

Obviously I'm not too happy about the influence of Hillsong. I don't believe that Brian Houston's teachings are biblical. I won't say that the guy is not a Christian or a false teacher (not enough info for me to make a correct judgement) but any teaching that exalts the role of man over God (as Houston seems to preach) is highly questionable. The major problem is that too many P/C Christians today are falling into this belief.

Of course, not all P/C Christians are like this. I often visit a blog of P/C Christians who are unhappy with the Hillsong influence and wish to follow more of the Bible's teachings. They still believe in things like tongues and Spirit baptism (which are problematic but not as serious as other problems), but they are concerned that the modern P/C church is not being biblical.

I didn't mean to make this a theological treatise or polemic, but I thought it was important for me to explain what and why I believe what I believe. If you read up Sola Scriptura you will find out more about the whys and the hows. I'll end by restating my belief that although the modern P/C movement is badly flawed, that many (if not most) of these people will enjoy paradise with me in the future, and also that God continues to work in them despite the errors I have spoken about.

--One Salient Oversight 23:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Christian Torah-submission

Good day! I noticed that you've made constructive edits to the Christian Torah-submission article. An editor has recently recommeded it for deletion. If you're interested, I'd like to encourage you to weigh in on the discussion and make any more edits that you think would be constructive. Thanks and keep up the good work. Namikiw 15:15, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Please help to clean up category:People by former religion

I am busy removing all people whose former religion or world view is not a defining characteristic or related to her/his notability.

I was busy in alphabetic order with Category:Former_atheists_and_agnostics (finished Collins) & Category:Former_Muslims (finished Darwish), but it is a lot of work. Can you please help with these and other and check Category:Former_Seventh-day_Adventists that I believe I had already finished. I have not started with Category:Former_Protestants & Category:Former_Jehovah's_Witnesses

Please keep me informed about your progress to prevent double work. Thanks in advance. Andries 10:18, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Reply

Hi Colin.
I'm sorry about the long delay, but I haven't logged on to Wikipedia for ages.
Got your message, and checked your travel blog. Glad to see you enjoyed England. I used to live not too far from Cheddar/Bath, in Gloucester on the other side of Bristol.
About the church in Bermuda, it's a small island with a big Adventist presence. 1 in 17 (at least on paper) is an Adventist. So it is well known throughout the island. The church is pretty conservative, with one congregation breaking the mold. Bermuda is a black-majority country, and this is also reflected in the composition of the church membership. Although Bermuda is a British Overseas Territory, the Adventist church is more North-American influenced. Overall, it's a mix of friendliness and conservatism.
I'd be happy to send you more info, though it's probably easier to do this via email.
Enjoy the rest of your trip. Stefanbs 03:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

note on changes

Greetings,

I edited a lot of your work on the spectrum magazine entry. If you want specific reasons why we removed certain references, and why they are erroneous, contact me via email at (removed... -CM)

thanks, Johnny —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johram (talkcontribs) 23:22, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Redirect of Ellen White studies

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New article on SDA interfaith relations?

Hi Colin. Noticed the red wikilink. Are you planning to start an article? Tonicthebrown 12:14, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Sure am! Seventh-day Adventist interfaith relations. Having some computer issues, so I saved it even though it needs work. Hope you can contribute! Colin MacLaurin 15:14, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

==AfD nomination of Religiosity and intelligence

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An article that you have been involved in editing, Religiosity and intelligence, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Religiosity and intelligence (2nd nomination). Thank you. WotherspoonSmith 13:48, 23 October 2007 (UTC) ==

You recently edited this article, I'd appreciate your input in the debate

Yes, you were Correct on the Dispensationalism page

Your comment:

(17:57, October 27, 2007) (edit) (undo)Colin MacLaurin (Talk | contribs) (→North America - wikilinked "Barnhouse" to Donald Barnhouse

Yes you were correct. Barnhouse tried to deny Dispensationalism in his later years. The title of the book was "But...". Strange title I know but I'm getting this information from another dispensationalist/friend of mine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MurderWatcher1 (talkcontribs) 00:12, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Template alignment

Thanks for telling me. I can fix this. Incidentally SB aligned all the Infobox Album templates a while back, I was thinking about making a generic solution for this - non-trivial though. Rich Farmbrough, 09:53 30 October 2007 (GMT).

Melbourne Meetup

Hello! The Melburnians are having another meet-up! Please consult this page if you are interested to participate in the discussion! Thanks! Phgao 03:24, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

can spiriuality be measured?

Hi Colin
Thanks for helping with the newly revised version of religiosity and intelligence. I'm interested in the edit where you state that some sociologist say that internal spirituality cannot be measured. Do you have a reference for this? As it stands, this contradicts stuff about people measuring spirituality. I think both statements can (should?) coexist, but I'm not sure of the source of the statement, and hoped you could help. (and please don't take this as any sort of attack of the 'every statement must cite a source' variety) WotherspoonSmith 07:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The reason they use the term "religiosity" in sociology studies is that they admit that internal spirituality cannot be measured. All humans can measure for sure is outward signs of being religious - like how much you pray, whether you attend church regularly, etc. No-one can judge how close someone is to God. Colin MacLaurin 13:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

template for deletion

Per you note at the TfD discussion re Category:Seventh-day Adventism in Europe, the template can be marked as {{db-g7}} - you are the only one that edited it and are requesting it be deleted. I marked it so and put a note on the TfD discussion. SkierRMH 08:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)