User talk:Cplakidas

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Argentine warships purchased by Greece[edit]

Can you explain why have you removed the links detailing the Argentine names? Lyndaship (talk) 18:24, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi Lyndaship, I haven't removed them, I've merely embedded them in the text. {{other ships}} is a dab template meant to be used at the top of a page, for ships with the same name as the article name. In a context where the article uses the Greek names throughout, it was potentially confusing. Cheers, --Constantine 19:12, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Sorry I think you are mistaken. Other ships is a template which leads to a set index page and may be used at the top of an article or section of an article as stated in WP:HATNOTE. It needs to be in the article as these ships were ordered and launched under the Argentinian names and somebody who landed on the page looking for another ship of the same Argentinian name needs a link to the list of Argentinian ships of that name. It would be confusing to place it at the top of these articles as the article title is for the ship in Greek service so it belongs at the top of the appropriate section where the Argentinian name is mentioned. You can see I do exactly the same for the many Greek ships which were transferred by the USA and the articles are under the American names. Will you kindly revert your edits to these articles please Lyndaship (talk) 19:59, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
"somebody who landed on the page looking for another ship of the same Argentinian name needs a link to the list of Argentinian ships of that name". Quite, and once again, the link is there, only embedded in the text rather than as a hatnote. Sorry, but I don't see how the hatnote works better in that specific case and context. The reader sees a not "for other ships of the same name, see X" right under the "Origin" section, with X being a name that does not match the one used in the article title. In other words, it provides no disambiguation of the actual article title, but a link to another set index about a different name. There is no requirement in WP to use a hatnote template, and I strongly feel that it is more natural and less confusing, for the average reader, when worked into the text. Constantine 20:24, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Unfortunately we disagree about what is both necessary and also confusing. I feel that you are only considering it from the side of someone who has arrived on the article page after searching for the Greek name. I am therefore going to revert the articles to the status quo ante. If you unwilling to accept this I suggest you raise it at WP:Ships and let other uninvolved editors who are familiar with the way articles on ships which have been named by different navies are handled express a view Lyndaship (talk) 08:19, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Hi, Lyndaship! I'm a WP:SHIPS member. Cplakidas is correct, I'm afraid. These sorts of name changes are usually written into the text, rather than hatnotes. See, for examples, Chilean battleship Almirante Latorre, HMS Eagle (1918), and HMS Agincourt (1913). We're not worried about the "somebody who landed on the page looking for another ship of the same Argentinian name" because if they type "ARA Santa Fe" in the search bar, they're going to land on the set index page (ARA Santa Fe). See also WP:Hatnote #3. Best, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 23:15, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Please note Ed has changed Almirante Latorre since he quoted it as an example above Lyndaship (talk) 07:30, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for jumping in Ed. I think you are misunderstanding our disagreement, I want to list the other ships having that name by means of the other ships template placed at the head of the relevant national service section if the article title is different from the shipindex page I am linking to. Cplakidas thinks that the template should not be used and that a blue link on the ships name in the text to the shipindex page is preferable. Sadly none of the three articles you give provides any sort of example, Latorre has no link to the Chilean ship index page (which exists) at all merely linking to HMS Canada at the head of the article - I would prefer to put this above the section which details the British service, Eagle likewise has no link to the Chilean Cochrane index page (which exists), and a link to Other HMS Eagles as a hatnote at the top which I agree with and Agincourt has no link to a Brazilian Rio de Janeiro index page (which does not exist) and a link to other HMS Agincourts as a hatnote at the top which again I agree with. None have a link to other ships named the same by means of a blue link within the text Lyndaship (talk) 08:13, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Hey Lyndaship, thanks for your reply. While I didn't misunderstand your disagreement, I could have perhaps explained it better. We write name changes like this into the text and do not use hatnotes to link to them—hence the three articles I linked. Again, see WP:Hatnote #3. (I also don't think that any link to ARA Santa Fe is needed in Greek destroyer Ierax (1911), but I'm not especially bothered by it either.) Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 01:46, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
I too edit WP:SHIPS pages, but don't wave the flag around like it's some kind of credential. Disagree wholeheartedly with Ed. Hatnote#3 does not apply. For balance, Greek destroyer which was ordered by Argentina, link should be included. Per WP:Easter Egg, a link to a Ship Index page should not be hidden in text. Llammakey (talk) 11:10, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
@Llammakey: A few things. One, I was responding to "If you unwilling to accept this I suggest you raise it at WP:Ships ...". Two, you need to re-read WP:EASTER. That's not at all what it says. Three, please explain how hatnote point three doesn't apply? Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 06:02, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
Because an article about an Argentine ship needs to be linked to appropriately. This is not just a Greek ship, it was an Argentine ship, paid for by the Argentinians to their specifications. The Greeks only took it over after it was built. The article has to show balance and hiding it as a tiny little link is not balanced. As for hatnote#3, Argentinians looking for their own ships might arrive at this page not by mistake. Personally I don't give a hoot what you were responding to, or frankly, your opinion on anything. It's not a credential. Llammakey (talk) 16:18, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
"Argentinians looking for their own ships" would arrive at ARA Santa Fe. On WP:SHIPS, in no way was I trying to wield it as a credential; I only said it in response to the suggestion that Cplakidas bring the conversation to the project talk page. But please, continue to assume bad faith. I'm done here. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 19:41, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
A hatnote pointing to ARA Santa Fe does have value, but needs to be kept practical. As it stood, the Santa Fe hatnote didn't make much sense as the only name already mentioned in the article was Ierax and it therefore appeared to contradict the initial hatnote. I've edited the Lead to give the 1st para more context, but the 'Other ships' template still looks wrong. I think better would be something like For other Argentinian warships of the same name see ARA Santa Fe, though perhaps there is a more elegant way to format it. Davidships (talk) 11:28, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
I agree with Ed and Cplakidas. The template at the subsection is confusing because it goes against the article name. Edit-warring to add it was a very poor editorial choice which confuses and overwhelms the short "Origin" section. I have removed it. Dr. K. 18:46, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
I think that that was premature. Firstly because, while I agree with you that the 'other ships' template doesn't work in this example, you don't address the question of whether a different formulation would be functionally satisfactory. Secondly the current length of the article or section is irrelevant to the need or otherwise for a hat note - there are stub articles that rightly have them, and no doubt the section in question will grow anyway.
This discussion is important as it will guide the treatment of differing examples of the need to point readers to shipindex pages where the name is not the article name (starting perhaps with the currently nonsensical one at Chilean battleship Almirante Latorre). Can this discussion be transcluded to the ship proect talk page, and continued there? Davidships (talk) 22:47, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
If you agree with me that the 'other ships' template doesn't work in this example,... then that's where the buck stops. The template gets removed pending a better option. We don't keep a confusing template until we achieve a better solution. Remove it first, then, if you get a better solution, you implement it. Keeping a bad option because you cannot come up with a better solution is no justification for keeping the bad option. There is such thing as editorial discretion. I exercised it, and I am happy I did. Dr. K. 02:27, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
....because you cannot come up with a better solution.... Did you read it? Is it a better one? Davidships (talk) 12:15, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Portals Overview, May 04, 2018[edit]

Thank you for being a member of the Portals WikiProject, and thank you for all the work you have all been doing on the portal namespace. To see the activity, check out the watchlist.

This is our 3rd issue, see previous issues at the Newsletter archive.

Top priority: Main list of portals needs updating[edit]

The top, and one of the most visible parts, of the portal system is Portal:Contents/Portals, which is intended to list all (completed) portals on Wikipedia.

About half of the missing existing portals have been added since this WikiProject's reboot (April 17th). Thank you to RockMagnetist, TriNitrobrick, Polyamorph, PratyushSinha101, Ganesha811, Bermicourt, Javert2113, Noyster, Ɱ, Lepricavark, XOR'easter, and Emir of Wikipedia, for working on this.

We are half-way to completion with this. We need everyone to chip in until it is done. Instructions, and the list of missing entries are at Portal talk:Contents/Portals#These are not listed yet.

I hope you'll join me there. ("Many hands make light work").

Thank you.


We're at 66 members, with more joining daily. We even have 6 WikiGnomes!

Special thanks[edit]

I have awarded Certes with a portals barnstar on his talk page for his work on the new excerpt templates that are revolutionizing the portal system (Template:Transclude lead excerpt & Template:Transclude random excerpt). If you'd like to show your appreciation, please feel free to stop by his talk page and add your signature to the barnstar itself.

Thank you Certes. You are enabling this WikiProject to get the right things done, fast.

By the way, the templates have already gone international. After being told about the templates, Mossab wrote:

Thanks You very much!. Those are fantastic and great templates! I transferred them to Arabic Wikipedia and they do a magic great job. I worked to improve portal anatomy here and i do every thing i can to improve it and i am very sad for the nomination for deletion of portals :(. I am glad to be member on WikiProject Portals and i added my name with pleasure. Kind regards


As you know, the (April 8th) proposal to delete all portals and the portal namespace inspired the reboot of this WikiProject. RfCs typically run for 30 days, which means there are 5 days left including today, before the RfC will be closed. The !votes are predominantly "oppose", but many editors have shared their disappointment with the portal system. We have our work cut out for us in correcting the problems of the portals to address their concerns. Complaints ranged from being out of date and lacking maintenance, to taking up the time of editors that they felt (due to low traffic) would be better spent improving articles.

Anti-WikiProject drama[edit]

This past week has been somewhat stressful for me, with more than a little conflict...

It culminated with my being reported at the Administrator's Noticeboard "for spamming and canvassing". This is the second time I've been reported there during the RfC; the first one was for posting notices of the deletion discussion (the RfC) at the top of all portal pages.

The accusations were 1) Posting notices of the deletion discussion (the RfC) at the top of all portal pages, 2) Adding an Article alerts section to the Portals WikiProject page, and 3) posting notices (invitations) about this WikiProject on user talk and portal talk pages.

None of which fall under the Wikipedia definitions of spamming or canvassing.

Thank you, Lionelt and Lepricavark, for coming to my rescue. I don't know how the discussion would have turned out if you had not spoken up.

The discussion was closed as "no action necessary".

After that, the person responsible posted their thoughts to my talk page. Here they are, with my response:

Congratulations, it appears your relentless targeted advertising of the RFC, your beating the RFC Supporters with a stick by posting countless times there, your dishonest insistence that Current Events was on the chopping block, and your obstruction of clean up efforts at MfD are paying dividends. Have fun playing with Portal space where no one will read your work. I'm sure someone will eventually clean up the mess when your interest wanes. Cheers. Legacypac

Thank you. I accept your congratulations on behalf of Wikiproject Portals and the portal-loving community – it was a team effort. In addition, I'd like to clarify some things about your claims above...
  1. Each page nominated for deletion must have a notice at the top of its page, per the deletion guideline. Not to have one there, would be unfair to those who use such pages, and would constitute a secret deletion tribunal. We don't do things that way on Wikipedia.
  2. As new facts became available (e.g., a motivated and thriving WikiProject to support the portals, new building blocks, etc.), it was appropriate to post the developments to the RfC, to support informed decision making.
  3. Proposals are literal, not figurative. The proposal specified "all portals". All means all.
  4. The fact is, the rebooted WikiProject is cleaning up the mess, rather rapidly. By updating and upgrading the portals, rather than getting rid of them.
  5. I think I'll be hanging around for awhile, but the project is more than likely to achieve critical mass and may outlive us all, due in part to the development of tools to assist editors in building, upgrading, and maintaining portals that are fully dynamic and self-updating.
Portals are more fun to work with than ever. Thank you for your role in making this happen. You made us try even harder, and inspired us to pull together as a team. You'll have a warm place in our hearts, forever. The Transhumanist

Automatically refreshed excerpts[edit]

The main advancement we've made so far is applying selective transclusion Transclusion is template technology, showing a page on another page. Selective transclusion shows only part of that page. We use it to show excerpts that always match the source. The two templates we have so far, are Template:Transclude lead excerpt and Template:Transclude random excerpt.

Obsoleting subpages[edit]

Excerpts are migrating toward the base page of each portal, and where this is done, a subpage is no longer needed.

Template:Transclude lead excerpt will be able to be used to put the intro excerpt directly on the portal page, rather than on an intro subpage, once we adapt a portal design to accommodate this.

Template:Transclude random excerpt is currently being used on 1st-level subpages, and eliminates the need for 2nd-level subpages. (Many portals have 2 levels of subpages).

There are about 1500 portals, but there are around 148,000 subpages in portal space. Further discussions are needed to develop designs and components that do not require them.

It is my hope that the portal of the future will be a single page, or close to it, pulling in excerpts from specified dynamic sources (like category pages), filtered by ratings. This would obviate the need for subpages at all (except for maybe the header and footer subpages, which store a portal's settings). A more likely near-term solution would be subpages with a list maintained by a bot, or editors using semi-automatic tools.

New portals[edit]

Since the reboot, a new portal has been created:

Portal:Limited recognition

Please watchlist these pages[edit]

Some central pages in the portal system. The more eyes on them, the better.

Wrapping up...[edit]

There's more in the works, like a rating system, further redesigns, etc. Keep an eye on the discussions on the project's talk page. They should start showing up there soon.

Hope to see you there. Sincerely,    — The Transhumanist   06:22, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Constantine Komnenos Angelos[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Constantine Komnenos Angelos you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Courcelles -- Courcelles (talk) 17:41, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Constantine Komnenos Angelos[edit]

The article Constantine Komnenos Angelos you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold Symbol wait.svg. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Constantine Komnenos Angelos for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Courcelles -- Courcelles (talk) 18:02, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Euthymius I of Constantinople[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Euthymius I of Constantinople you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Courcelles -- Courcelles (talk) 00:40, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Euthymius I of Constantinople[edit]

The article Euthymius I of Constantinople you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold Symbol wait.svg. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Euthymius I of Constantinople for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Courcelles -- Courcelles (talk) 01:01, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Constantine Dalassenos (Duke of Antioch)[edit]

Hello Cplakidas,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Constantine Dalassenos (Duke of Antioch) for deletion, because it appears to duplicate an existing Wikipedia article, Constantine Dalassenos (duke of Antioch).

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions.

Arthistorian1977 (talk) 11:59, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Battle of Fardykambos[edit]

The article Battle of Fardykambos you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Battle of Fardykambos for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Gog the Mild -- Gog the Mild (talk) 18:21, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Constantine Komnenos Angelos[edit]

The article Constantine Komnenos Angelos you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Constantine Komnenos Angelos for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Courcelles -- Courcelles (talk) 19:41, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Greek submarine Amfitriti‎[edit]

I see you've just removed the alternative spelling of Amphitriti from this. I put it in as on the US and UK records of ships transferred its often (wrongly) transliterated like that. Not much bothered either way but thought I best explain to you Lyndaship (talk) 08:08, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Good Article Backlog[edit]

Hi Cplakidas. I am looking to encourage suitable editors to review more articles at WP:GAN. Currently you have five nominations awaiting review and as you are probably aware there is a large backlog. This means you and other editors may have to wait months before your articles are reviewed. I can not find any records of reviews you may have done at User:GA bot/Stats, but looking at your user page I see you have helped promote 139 articles to Good Status. This suggests that you are familiar with the criteria and should be able to contribute to reviews. If you need some help with the review process feel free to ask me or leave a note at the help desk. Regards AIRcorn (talk) 11:17, 9 May 2018 (UTC)


Hello friend! Long time no see! I created pt:Leão Maleíno in Portuguese using the Prosopography and according to its article Leon was probably son of Constantine Maleinos, not Nikephoros Maleinos as the article Maleinos family says. According to the article about Nikephoros, he was probably brother or son of Eustathios Maleinos. Maybe all this information should be added to show the different points of view. Cheers!--Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 02:07, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi Renato, indeed, I hope everything is going well with you :). Thanks for the heads up, but dear lord, this is a mess. The PMBZ seems to follow Loparev's reconstruction of the genealogy for the early members, which is tentative at best, and some statements are directly antithetical in the different sources: e.g. Krsmanović names the older Eustathios as "presumably a brother or son of the first known member of the Maleinos lineage", where she obviously (?) means Nikephoros Maleinos, whereas the PMBZ suggests that Eustathios, who was born ca. 845, was possibly the brother or father (!!!) of Nikephoros. Who is correct? Someone obviously miscopied or mistyped, and my money is on the PMBZ (a man active in a position of authority in 866 cannot be the son of a man born in 845), but how to prove this? And if the PMBZ is wrong about that, then how can one trust anything else about the genealogy of the 9th-century Maleinoi in this particular work? Sigh... This will require some delving into, and checking up with the original sources. Constantine 09:16, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Euthymius I of Constantinople[edit]

The article Euthymius I of Constantinople you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Euthymius I of Constantinople for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Courcelles -- Courcelles (talk) 21:21, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Megas logothetes[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Megas logothetes you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of HaEr48 -- HaEr48 (talk) 05:40, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Portals update, 11 May 2018[edit]

We've grown to 73 members, and morale is high. Thank you for joining. Here is some news, and some tasks...

The RfC will be closed soon...[edit]

2018-05-11: preparations are being made to close the RfC. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure#Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/RfC: Ending the system of portals.

When there, be sure to notice the consultation link.

We're trying to get a prototypical single-page portal developed in time to show the RfC closers before they make their final decision. You can help. It's Portal:Humanism. So far, we've applied selective transclusion (automation) to excerpts, and have made the following sections without subpages: intro, selected article, selected biography, categories, related portals, wikiprojects, things to do, and wikimedia. Eight down, 4 to go, plus 2 formatting subpages (not sure we can migrate those). Automating every section, would also be nice.

Main objectives[edit]

Our main objectives currently, are:

  1. Replace static excerpts with selective transclusions, so that the excerpts always stay fresh (that is, match the source content). We are now doing this on the portal base page as much as possible, to reduce the number of subpages that are needed. See #2...
  2. Migrate the functions of subpages to the portal base pages. There are around 150,000 subpages in portal space. We aim to make these obsolete by using templates and other calls from the portal base pages.
  3. Improve portal design to make portals self-update. Semi-dynamic sections update from a static list, as used in {{Transclude random excerpt}}. Fully-dynamic sections would update from a list maintained elsewhere on Wikipedia, like a category. We haven't found a way to do this yet, other than to create a bot (which we will probably need to do).

Maintenance pass #1: Upgrading the intro section[edit]

The intro section of many portals transcludes an "Intro" subpage that has an excerpt in it.

We're replacing that with a selective transclusion directly in the intro section, bypassing the subpage. Though, there's a little more to it...

For instructions, see: Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals#Transclude intro excerpt directly on the portal base page.

Please skip Portal:American Civil War, as that is specifically being maintained by hand.

Maintenance pass #2: Obsoleting the Wikimedia subpages[edit]

One of the sections on many portals links to sister projects on the subject. This needlessly takes a subpage. The subpage can be made obsolete by using the template {{Wikimedia for portals}} directly on the portal base page.

This has been done for several hundred portals so far.

See Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals#Obsolete a Wikimedia subpage for instructions.

Maintenance pass #3: calling the category tree from the portal base page[edit]

Certes figured out how...


For more information, see the thread Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals#Rendering PAGENAME inside categorytree tag doesn't work (it does now).

More to come...[edit]

In the meantime, see ya around the portals!    — The Transhumanist   15:32, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLIV, May 2018[edit]

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 15:00, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Portals WikiProject update, 15 May 2018[edit]

We are at 74 members. If you know anyone who might find this WikiProject interesting, please invite them.

The RfC has ended[edit]

The RfC was closed May 11th, and a closing statement was posted May 12th which says "There exists a strong consensus against deleting or even deprecating portals at this time."

Ongoing tasks[edit]

Some major activities that we are in the middle of include:

  • Adding the missing existing portals to the main portals list at Portal:Contents/Portals. Instructions are on the talk page. There are about 125 portals left to be processed. (There were 400). Keep up the good work!
  • Development discussions on how to migrate the subpages to the base pages. There are around 150,000 subpages in portal space, associated with the various sections on a typical portal. We are trying to obsolete them section type by section type. Currently, we're working on obsoleting the intro subpages and the "selected articles" subpages. Please join in.

Other tasks[edit]

  • The list of portals not ready to be listed on the main list can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals#These are not listed yet (scroll down to see them - they are marked Not ready). They are incomplete. If you want a specific portal to work on, please consider choosing one from that list.
  • Over the years, some incomplete portals (portals under construction) got added to Portal:Contents/Portals. Therefore, every portal listed there needs to be inspected, and any that are incomplete should be removed from that list and added to the not ready list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals#These are not listed yet (scroll down to see it). On Portal:Contents/Portals, I'm already almost done inspecting the portals in the culture section, and so you can skip those. The types of things to look for are empty sections (most will have a redlinked subpage), lack of "selected" sections, portal stubs with just an intro and end sections, and very poor layout (like seriously unbalanced columns).

Portal-building resources[edit]

During his work on portals, Broter found a quote randomizer. It is {{Random quotation}}.

Trailblazer: approaching the one-page portal[edit]

Broter has transformed the Portal:Community of Christ so it is comprised of only 3 pages in portal space: the base page, its box-header subpage, and its box-footer subpage. Its other other subpages are now obsolete and are waiting for deletion. Nice job, Broter!

Well, that's all for now. See ya around the portals.    — The Transhumanist   06:37, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Al-Adil ibn al-Sallar/GA1[edit]

Cplakidas, it looks like a ping from this GA review made a little over a week ago won't have gotten through, so I thought I'd let you know that the review is ready and is waiting for your response. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:50, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

History of Zakynthos[edit]

Don't know if you saw Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Original_research,_refusal_to_communicate,_ridiculously_excessive_detail,_etc. and hence the new History of Zakynthos I spun off. I'd be very grateful for any thoughts (& still more edits) you have on it. It doesn't much look like copyvio to me, but I can't access or read the sources. Johnbod (talk) 23:46, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Megas logothetes[edit]

The article Megas logothetes you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold Symbol wait.svg. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Megas logothetes for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of HaEr48 -- HaEr48 (talk) 23:01, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Al-Adil ibn al-Sallar[edit]

The article Al-Adil ibn al-Sallar you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Al-Adil ibn al-Sallar for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Sturmvogel 66 -- Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:21, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Sack of Damietta[edit]

Can you point me to the other articles on the other Sacks of Damietta? If this is the only one covered by Wikipedia, it goes at the base name. If there are others but this is the primary topic, it goes at the base name. Since no other articles or redirects start with "Sack of Damietta", I moved it per WP:PRECISION. -- JHunterJ (talk) 14:56, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi JHunterJ! You are not incorrect on naming, however the Siege of Damietta (1218–1219) also resulted in a sack of the city. In the context of Wikipedia namespace, it may however be expedient to adopt the simpler name, as you suggest. Let me think it over a few days please. Constantine 21:10, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
I'll put a disambiguation page at the base name until then, to avoid the incorrect arrangement of a base name pointing to a qualified version of the same name (primary topics go at the base name). -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:02, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
Ah, but now it points to a disambiguation page. That works too. Cheers! -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:04, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.11 25 May 2018[edit]

Hello Cplakidas, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!


  • WP:ACREQ has been implemented. The flow at the feed has dropped back to the levels during the trial. However, the backlog is on the rise again so please consider reviewing a few extra articles each day; a backlog approaching 5,000 is still far too high. An effort is also needed to ensure that older unsuitable older pages at the back of the queue do not get automatically indexed for Google.

Deletion tags

  • Do bear in mind that articles in the feed showing the trash can icon may have been tagged by inexperienced or non NPR rights holders. They require your further verification.

Backlog drive:

  • A backlog drive will take place from 10 through 20 June. Check out our talk page at WT:NPR for more details. NOTE: It is extremely important that we focus on quality reviewing. Despite our goal of reducing the backlog as much as possible, please do not rush while reviewing.


  • There will be a large increase in the number of editathons in June. Please be gentle with new pages that obviously come from good faith participants, especially articles from developing economies and ones about female subjects. Consider using the 'move to draft' tool rather than bluntly tagging articles that may have potential but which cannot yet reside in mainspace.

Paid editing - new policy

  • Now that ACTRIAL is ACREQ, please be sure to look for tell-tale signs of undisclosed paid editing. Contact the creator if appropriate, and submit the issue to WP:COIN if necessary. There is a new global WMF policy that requires paid editors to connect to their adverts.

Subject-specific notability guidelines

  • The box at the right contains each of the subject-specific notability guidelines, please review any that are relevant BEFORE nominating an article for deletion.
  • Reviewers are requested to familiarise themselves with the new version of the notability guidelines for organisations and companies.

Not English

  • A common issue: Pages not in English or poor, unattributed machine translations should not reside in main space even if they are stubs. Please ensure you are familiar with WP:NPPNE. Check in Google for the language and content, tag as required, then move to draft if they do have potential.


  • Development is underway by the WMF on upgrades to the New Pages Feed, in particular ORES features that will help to identify COPYVIOs, and more granular options for selecting articles to review.
  • The next issue of The Signpost has been published. The newspaper is one of the best ways to stay up to date with news and new developments. between our newsletters.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:34, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Portals WikiProject update, 25 May 2018[edit]

We have grown to 79 members.

Please provide a warm welcome to our latest additions, Wpgbrown,, JLJ001, and Wumbolo.

A lot is going on, much of it on the WikiProject's talk page, so be sure to go there and join in on any of the many discussions taking place there.

Elsewhere around the portal project, or related to portals, the following is happening...

New news template ready for testing[edit]

Evad37 has created a new template, with supporting lua module, to handle news in portals...

{{Transclude selected current events}} is ready to be tested in some actual portals. Let Evad37 know if you need help with the search patterns.

Noyster commented that "This is the best portal innovation since sliced bread!"

See the relevant discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Portals#Alternative to Wikinews.

Thank you, Evad.

Coming soon: Automatic article alerts (but there is a glitch)[edit]

Our WikiProject is now subscribed to the bot that makes automatic article alerts, but the subpage where they are posted has not been added to our WikiProject page yet because of a weird problem...

Featured portal nominations from two years ago keep popping up on there.

Please check Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals/Article alerts to see if you can figure out how to fix this.

Once that is remedied, it will be posted on our WikiProject page.

Thank you.

Note that, this will only track base pages, because to track the rest, we'd have to create over 140,000 talk pages for the subpages, and that just isn't worthwhile (as we're trying to remove the subpages anyways). Therefore, any alerts for subpages will still need to be posted manually.

New portal, still needs work[edit]

Drafting a new portals guideline[edit]

Your input/editing is welcome on the draft-in-progress of a new guideline for portals.

See or work on the draft at User:Cesdeva/sandbox11.

See also the discussion at: Wikipedia talk:Portal guidelines#RfC on new portal guidelines

RfC on new TOC layout for main portal list[edit]

There is a proposal to change the look of the table of contents at Portal:Contents/Portals.

See: Portal talk:Contents/Portals#RFC on layout update.

Deletion discussion survivors[edit]

Thank you to those who have participated in portal deletion discussions. There are still some editors out there who despise portals, and this comes across in their argumentation style. Wow. Such negativity. But, there is some good news...

Current deletion discussions are posted on our WikiProject page.

Portal space clean up[edit]

While portal detractors are trying to get rid of portals via MfD, we have deleted many of them via speedy deletion (per {{Db-p1}} or {{Db-p2}}). Essentially, they were bare skeletons, with maybe a little meat on them. The plus here is that speedy deletion is without prejudice to re-creating the portals. They can easily be restarted from scratch without getting approval, or be undeleted by request by someone willing to work on them. We have kept track of these, for when someone wants to rebuild them. They are listed at Portal talk:Contents/Portals#These are not listed yet.

We are also removing subpages, the functions of which have been migrated to portal base pages. To see which ones have been removed, look for the redlinks in our watchlist.

There is also an MfD concerning some of these at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Redundant subpages of the Cornwall portal.

For subpages that need to be deleted, you can conveniently place this speedy deletion template at the top of each of them:

{{Db-g6|rationale=of subpage clean up – this subpage's function has been migrated to the portal base page and is no longer needed}}

Then an admin will come along and delete them.

Please help list the unlisted portals![edit]

There are still 100 existing portals not yet presented on the main portal list at Portal:Contents/Portals. There were 400, so we've come a long way. Thank you! But we are not done yet...

Please list a couple of them. Every little bit helps. If each member of this project listed one more, it would almost all be done. Many hands make light work.

The list of missings, and instructions, are to be found at Portal talk:Contents/Portals#These are not listed yet.

I hope to see you there!

Wrapping up[edit]

These developments make up just the tip of the iceberg. I'll have more to report in the next update, soon.    — The Transhumanist   00:31, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Whoa, I missed one...[edit]

There's an article about the Portals WikiProject in the new issue of Signpost:

Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2018-05-24/WikiProject report


P.S.: We now have 80 members. Evad37 just joined!    — The Transhumanist   01:36, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Nikephoros Komnenos (brother of Alexios I)[edit]

The article Nikephoros Komnenos (brother of Alexios I) you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Nikephoros Komnenos (brother of Alexios I) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Iazyges -- Iazyges (talk) 21:41, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Andronikos Komnenos (son of Alexios I)[edit]

The article Andronikos Komnenos (son of Alexios I) you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Andronikos Komnenos (son of Alexios I) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Iazyges -- Iazyges (talk) 22:02, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Portals WikiProject update #007, 31 May 2018[edit]

We have grown to 89 members.

This is the seventh issue of this newsletter. For previous issues, see our newsletter archive.


A warm welcome to our nearly one dozen new members...

Our new members include:

Be sure to say "hi" and welcome them to the team.

The portal set has shrunk[edit]

There were 1515 portals, but now we have 1475, because we speedy deleted a bunch of incompleted portals that had been sitting around for ages, that were empty shells or had very little content. Because they were speedied, they can be rebuilt from scratch without acquiring approval from WP:DRV.

Maintenance runs on the portals set have begun[edit]

This is what we have been gearing up for: upgrading the portals en masse, using AWB.

More than half of the Associated Wikimedia sections have been converted to no longer use a subpage. This chore will probably be completed over the next week or two. Many thanks to the WikiGnome Squad, who have added an Associated Wikimedia section to the many geography-related portals that lacked one. The rest of the subjects await. :)

The next maintenance drive will be on the intro sections. Notices have gone out to the WikiProjects for which one or more portals fall within their subject scope. Once enough time has elapsed for them to respond (1 week), AWB processing of intro sections will begin.

Thank you, you[edit]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your part in the RfC. I went back and reread much of it. I believe your enthusiasm played a major part in turning the tide on there. I'm proud of all of you.

Why reread that mess, you ask?

To harvest ideas, and to keep the problems that need to be fixed firmly in mind. But, also to keep in touch. See below...

Thank yous all around[edit]

I've contacted all of the other opposers of the RfC proposal to delete portals, to thank them for their support, and to assure them that their decision was not made in vain. I updated them on our activities, provided the link to the interviews about this project in the Signpost, pointed out our newsletter archive so they can keep up-to-date with what we are doing, and I invited them all to come and have a look-see at our operations (on our talk page).

Sockpuppet, and reverting his work[edit]

It so happened that one of our members was a sockpuppet: JLJ001. According to the admin who blocked him, he was a particularly tricky long term abuser. This is a weird situation, since the user was quite helpful. He will be missed.

This has been somewhat disruptive, because admins are doing routine deletions of the pages (portals, templates, etc.) he created, and reversion of his edits (I don't know if they will be reverting all of them). Please bear with them, as they are only doing what is best in the long run.

The following pages have been deleted by the admins so far, that I know of:

Automation so far, section by section...[edit]

Automatic article alerts is up and running[edit]

Automatic article alerts are now featured on the project page.

Some super out-of-date entries kept showing up on there, so posting it on the Project page was delayed. Thanks to Evad37 and AfroThundr for providing solutions on this one. Evad37 adjusted the workflow settings per Wikipedia:Article alerts/Subscribing#Choosing workflows, to make sure only the appropriate page types show up. AfroThundr removed the tags from the old entries that caused them to keep showing up in the article alerts.

Other things that could use some automation[edit]

Noyster pointed out that it would be nice to automate the updating of the portals section at the Community bulletin board.

Another major component of the portal system is the main list of portals, at Portal:Contents/Portals. How would we go about automating the updating of that?

Please post your ideas on the WikiProject's talk page. Thank you.

Deletion discussion survivors[edit]

Keep in mind that we have already speedy deleted almost all of the nearly empty portals, which can be rebuilt without approval whenever it is convenient to do so. Other portals should be completed if at all possible rather than delete them through MfD (which requires approval from Deletion review to rebuild).

(Current deletion discussions are posted on our WikiProject page).

Portals needing repair[edit]

Wrapping up[edit]

There's still more, but it will have to wait until next issue.

Until then, see ya around the project.    — The Transhumanist   12:00, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Just double checking[edit]

Would you concur with me?[1] - LouisAragon (talk) 17:23, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: Definitely concur. It is about states, not ethnic groups, and multiple empires, not only the Achaemenid one. Constantine 16:52, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Aight. Btw, do you perhaps know how to get (full) access to the latest / up-to-date version of the Enc. of Islam? LouisAragon (talk) 17:21, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
You mean EI THREE? AFAIK it is only an online resource, so you need some university or similar account. If you want anything specific, email me. --Constantine 18:33, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 Done - LouisAragon (talk) 09:31, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
...Though belated, wanted to say thanks!! ;-) - LouisAragon (talk) 11:16, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
You're welcome :) Constantine 19:58, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Portals WikiProject update #008, 7 June 2018[edit]

The WikiProject now has 92 participants, including 16 admins.


A warm welcome to the newest members of the team:

Be sure to say hi.


Pbsouthwood has just gotten through the grueling RfA process to become a Wikipedia administrator. Be sure to congratulate him.

The reason he went for it was: "For some time I expect to be busy with subpage deletion for Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals as mentioned above. The amount of work is expected to keep me busy for some time. I am primarly a content creator and contributor to policy discussions, but would be willing to consider other admin work on request, providing that I feel that my involvement would be appropriate and not too far outside my comfort zone."

New feature: Picture slideshow[edit]

Picture slideshow

Evad37 has figured out a way to let the user flip through pictures without purging the page. Purging is awkward because there is an intermediary confirmation screen that you have to click on "yes". In the new picture slideshow section, all you have to do is click on the > to go to the next picture or < to instantly show the previous feature. The feature also shuffles the pictures when the page is initiated, so that they are shown in a different order each time the user visits the page (or purges it).

It is featured in Portal:Sacramento, California. Check it out to the right.

Keep in mind that the feature is a beta version. Please share your comments on how to refine this feature, at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Portals#Refining the Picture slideshow.

The one-page portal has been achieved[edit]

We now have a one-page portal design. It isn't fully automated, nor is it even fully semi-automated, as there are still some manually filled-in areas. But it no longer requires any subpages in portal space, and that is a huge improvement. For example, Portal:Sacramento, California utilizes the one-page design concept. While is employs heavy use of templates, it does not have any subpages of its own.

I commend you for your teamwork[edit]

This is the most cooperative team I've ever seen. With a strong spirit of working together to get an important job done. Kudos to you.

In conclusion...[edit]

There's more. A lot more. But it will have to wait until next issue, but you don't have to wait. See what's going on at the WikiProject's talk page.    — The Transhumanist   02:08, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Battle of Lalakaon copyedit[edit]

Thanks a lot Miniapolis, your help is much appreciated! Constantine 19:25, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLVI, June 2018[edit]

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 10:35, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

NPP Backlog Elimination Drive[edit]

Hello Cplakidas, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

We can see the light at the end of the tunnel: there are currently 2900 unreviewed articles, and 4000 unreviewed redirects.

Announcing the Backlog Elimination Drive!

  • As a final push, we have decided to run a backlog elimination drive from the 20th to the 30th of June.
  • Reviewers who review at least 50 articles or redirects will receive a Special Edition NPP Barnstar: Special Edition New Page Patroller's Barnstar. Those who review 100, 250, 500, or 1000 pages will also receive tiered awards: 100 review coin, 250 review coin, 500 review coin, 1000 review certificate.
  • Please do not be hasty, take your time and fully review each page. It is extremely important that we focus on quality reviewing.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. — Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 06:57, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Portals WikiProject update #009, 15 June 2018[edit]

(Article slideshow prototype)
Selected animals

Don't mind that box to the right. We'll be talking about that later, below.

Almost done...[edit]

With the portals upgrades?

No. :)

What is almost done is the updating of the main list of portals!

There are 23 portals left to be listed.

Kudos to the WikiGnome Squadron, for spearheading this.

Once it is fully updated, we need to keep it up to date. When you complete a portal, remember to add it to Portal:Contents/Portals.

Concerning portal upgrades, we are working on those section-by-section...

Associated Wikimedia section conversion task complete[edit]

The Associated Wikimedia sections of the entire set of portals have been upgraded. These are now handled on each portal base page (bypassing the previously used corresponding subpages), using the {{Wikimedia for portals}} template rather than reiterated copied/pasted code.

So, to be more accurate on reporting upgrade progress, that's one section down (for the whole set of portals), with (about) nine sections to go. (Skipping curated portals, regarding custom content sections, of course).

Further section conversions (using AWB)[edit]

Work is underway on converting Portals' introduction sections, and the categories sections.

If you would like to help, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals#Upgrade introduction sections and Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals#AWB task: Convert category sections

Further section conversions (by hand)[edit]

Work has also started with converting selected picture sections to picture slideshow sections. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals#Install picture slideshows.

Quality rating system for portals under development[edit]

Currently, there is no quality rating for portals: in the Portals WikiProject box on each portals' talk page, it just says "Portal". But times are a changin'. Quality assessment is on the way, and you can help. See the discussion.

What's coming: excerpt slideshows[edit]

Evad37 has figured out a way to apply the picture slideshow feature to displaying article excerpts (now you can check out the provided box above). :) This allows us to bypass page purging to see the next selection, and you can even click through them rather quickly. Currently, the wikicode for doing this for article excerpts is a bit eye-boggling, and so we are looking into simplifying it. A streamlined version may be just around the corner.

Note that this is a prototype, not ready for widespread use. Click on the box in between the lesser than and greater than signs, to see what I mean. It was meant for pictures, and so the thumbnail feature doesn't apply to article prose very well. I've presented it even though it isn't ready, to show the direction portal development is heading. See the discussion.


I'm amazed at how rapidly portals are evolving. And we're still within a single generation of portal technological evolution. Imagine what they might be in 2 or 3 more generations of developments. Pretty soon, portals will be able to shake your hand. :)    — The Transhumanist   11:03, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 28[edit]

Wikipedia Library owl.svg The Wikipedia Library


Books & Bytes
Issue 28, April – May 2018

  • #1Bib1Ref
  • New partners
  • User Group update
  • Global branches update
    • Wikipedia Library global coordinators' meeting
  • Spotlight: What are the ten most cited sources on Wikipedia? Let's ask the data
  • Bytes in brief

Arabic, Chinese, Hindi, Italian and French versions of Books & Bytes are now available in meta!
Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:33, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Category:7th-century Gothic people has been nominated for discussion[edit]

Category:7th-century Gothic people, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:27, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Portals WikiProject update #010, 30 June 2018[edit]

We've grown to 94 participants.

A warm welcome to dcljr and Kpgjhpjm.

Rating system for portals[edit]

We are in the process of developing a rating system specifically for portals, as the quality assessment scheme for articles does not apply to portals. It is coming along nicely. Your input would be very helpful. See the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Portals/General#Proposed new quality class assessments.

Better than a barnstar[edit]

One of our participants got involved with this WikiProject through interest in how the new generation of portals would be handled in WP's MOS (Manual of Style). It didn't take long before he got sucked in deeper. This has given him an opportunity to look around, and so, he has made an assessment of this WikiProject's operations:

I'm quite frankly really impressed and inspired by what's happening here. If you'd asked me a year ago if I thought portals should just be scrapped as a failed, dragged-out experiment, I would have said "yes". This planning and the progress toward making it all practical is exemplary of the wiki spirit, in particular of a happy service-to-readers puppy properly wagging its technological and editorial tail instead of the other way around, and without "drama". It's also one of the few examples I've seen in a long time of a new wikiproject actually doing something useful and fomenting constructive activity (instead of acting as a barrier to participation, and a canvassing/ownership farm for PoV pushers). Kudos all around. — SMcCandlish

Congratulations, everyone. Keep up the great work.

Slideshow development[edit]

We've run into a glitch with slideshows: they don't work on mobile devices.

Initially, we will need to explore options that allow portals to have slideshows without adversely affecting mobile viewers. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Portals/Design#Mobile view support.

Eventually, we may need another way to do slideshows. If we do go this route, and I don't see why we wouldn't, then (user configurable) automatic slideshows also become a possibility.

TemplateStyles RfC passed[edit]

Once implemented, this will allow editors to create and edit cascading style sheets for use with templates. This will expand what we can do with portals. For more detail, see mw:Extension:TemplateStyles and Wikipedia:TemplateStyles.

Automation effort[edit]

We've run into an obstacle using Lua-based selective transclusion: Lua is incapable (on Wikipedia) of reading in article names from categories. Because of this, we'll need to seek other approaches for fully automating the Selected article section. We are exploring sources other than categories, and other technologies besides Lua.

Speaking of using other sources, the template {{Transclude list item excerpt}} collects list items from a specified page, or from a section of that page, and transcludes the lead from a randomly selected link from that list. Courtesy of Certes. So, if you use this in a portal, and if the template specifies a page or section serviced by JL-Bot, you've now got yourself an automatically updated section in the portal. JL-Bot provides links to featured content and good articles, by subject.

What is "fully automated"? When you create a portal using a creation template, and the portal works thereafter without editor intervention, the portal is fully automated. That is, the portal is supported by features that fetch new content. If you have to add new article names every so often for it to display new content, then it is only semi-automated.

Currently, the Selected article section is semi-automated, because it requires that an editor supplies the names of the various articles for which excerpts are (automatically) displayed. For examples, look at the wikisource code of Portal:Reptiles, Portal:Ancient Tamil civilization, and Portal:Reference works.

So far, 3 sections are fully automatable: the introduction section, the categories section, and the Associated Wikimedia section.

Where is all this heading?[edit]


Or some other name.

Eventually, the portal department will be a software program. And we won't have to do anything (unless we want to). Not even tell it what portals to create (unless we want to). It will just do it all (plus whatever else we want it to do). And we will of course give it good manners, and a name.

But, that is a few years off.

Until then, building portals is still (partially) up to us.    — The Transhumanist   13:29, 30 June 2018 (UTC)


Hi. A small remark : the first sentence of the "sources" § seems to me questionable ("Three sources report in some detail on the events before and during the battle, all of them drawing on first-hand Catalan accounts and reflecting the Catalan point of view") I don't have access to the full book of DeVries so I can't check if he gives justifications for this, but 1) I wonder on what basis Gregoras can be described as "drawing on first-hand Catalan accounts" 2)The Aragonese version of the Chronicle of the Morea ([2]) is not the only one that deals with the battle, so does the Greek version ([3]) and the battle is also alluded to in the French version; and as the Aragonese is a (later) translation, the fact that it is written in some spanish langage doesn't necessarily imply that its author/translator had access to "first-hand Catalan accounts". (that every version of the Chronicle deals more or less with the battle can be sourced with Jacoby - by the way I can send it to you in pdf if you don't have it, tell me if you wish). Does DeVries explain how they "reflect the Catalan POW"? --Phso2 (talk) 20:18, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your input. TBH I had wondered about that bit myself, DeVriews does not really explain it. Muntaner is clearly reliant on eyewitness account, but he makes the same assumption about the Aragonese CotM, and then writes that Gregoras' narrative "seems to have been taken from Catalan or Turkish participants". He does not cite any secondary scholarship to that effect though. Though I think that the article as such is rather comprehensive and correct (pending your comments), the source situation needs some work, so any help there would be appreciated. Having a copy of Jacoby's work would definitely help, thanks a lot. --Constantine 09:16, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
I also think it "is rather comprehensive and correct", perhaps it could be a little bit less affirmative in some points (that rely on DeVries), it seems DeVries is a bit too superficial or inconsistent somehow, and merely follows the extremely influencial Miller : he seems to accept without discussion the location near the Kephissos, doubt the marsh story at the end but seems to accept it as well without reservation in other parts, the bibliography he gives in note 3 seems weaker (Cheetham and Pascot are not of the scholarliest trend) and older than this article's (for example DeV cites Setton, but Setton's position has varied much from his older works to his later ones, in the papacy and the Levant he seems to endorse Jacoby's views)...Do you understand the remark that the battle (which he describes as a quasi total annihilation of one side - including its leader - quickly followed by the conquest of its land) "perhaps even could be defined as decisive"? How could a battle be more "decisive" than this one?
Besides, perhaps you (as a native speaker) could also add some more about the Greek writers's theories about the location? (though they seem to have been discarded, they look interesting for the sake of history's history). --Phso2 (talk) 19:08, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Brill Online[edit]

Hey, I just sent you another email. :-) - LouisAragon (talk) 16:28, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Replied. - LouisAragon (talk) 18:20, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Sent you one more! - LouisAragon (talk) 11:18, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Greek help[edit]

Hey, hope its going fine. I just finished writing Antiochus XII Dionysus. I still need to write the lede and arrange the infobox but the article itself is done. However, this one have four epithets!!! I was wondering if you can write them in Greek alphabet :)

they are Dionysus - Epiphanes - Philopator - Callinicus

Appreciate your help. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Done, always a pleasure. I'll give it a read tomorrow :) --Constantine 22:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)


Wiki-stripe1.svg Military history reviewers' award
On behalf of the Milhist coordinators, thank you for your review during the April to June 2018 quarter. Here is a WikiStripe for your contribution to our article quality processes. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:29, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Keep track of upcoming reviews. Just copy and paste {{WPMILHIST Review alerts}} to your user space

Your GA nomination of Megas logothetes[edit]

The article Megas logothetes you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Megas logothetes for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of HaEr48 -- HaEr48 (talk) 01:01, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLVII, July 2018[edit]

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:12, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Portals WikiProject update #011, 10 July 2018[edit]

We now have 97 participants.

Be sure to welcome our newest members, BrantleyIzMe, Coffeeandcrumbs, and Nolan Perry, with warm regards.

Work is proceeding apace. We have 2 major thrusts right now: converting the intro sections of portals, and building the components of the one-page automated model...

Converting the intro sections

We need everybody, except those building software components, to work on converting intros. If you have AWB, definitely use that. If not, then work on them manually. Even one a day, or as often as you can muster, will help a lot. There are only about 1,000 of them left to go, so if everyone chips in, it will go pretty quickly. Remember, there are 97 of us!

The intros for most of the portals starting with A through F have already been converted to use the {{Transclude lead excerpt}} template.

The standard wikicode for the automated intro that we want to put into place looks like this:

{{Transclude lead excerpt | {{PAGENAME}} | paragraphs=1-2 | files=1}}
{{Box-footer|[[{{PAGENAME}}|Read more...]]}}

That works for most portals, but not all. For some portals it requires some tweaking, and for others, we may have to use a different or more customized approach. Remember to visually inspect each portal you work on and make sure that it works before moving on to the next one.

Be sure to skip user-maintained portals. They are listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Portals#Specific_portal_maintainers.

AWB tips

I've started an AWB tips page, for those of you feeling a bit overwhelmed by that power user tool. Feel free to add to it and/or improve it.

Portal automation

We have some very talented Lua programmers, who are pushing the limits of what we can do in gathering data from Wikipedia's various namespaces and presenting it in portals. Due to their efforts, Lua is powering the selective transclusion core of our emerging automated portal design, in the form of selected article sections that rotate content, and slideshows.

To go beyond Lua's limits, to take full advantage of Mediawiki's API, we are in the midst of adding another programming language to the resources we shall be making use of: JavaScript. The ways that JavaScript can help us edit portals to boost the power of our Lua solutions, are being explored, which will likely make the two languages synergistic if not symbiotic. Research is under way on how we can use JavaScript to make some of the portal semi-automated features fully automatically self-updating, in ways that Lua cannot. Like gathering random members from a category and inserting them into a portal's templates as parameters. Once the parameters are in place, Lua does the rest.

If you would like to get involved with design efforts, or just keep up on them, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Portals/Design.

When should we start building new portals?

Well, not at the present time, because building portals is quite time consuming. The good news is that we are working on a design that will be fully automated, or as close to that as we can get. And the new design is being implemented in the portal department's main portal creation template. This means, that not only will portals update themselves, their creation will be highly automated as well. That's the nature of templates. You put them in place, and they just... work.

What I'm getting at here, is that it would be better to wait to build lots of new portals until after the new design is completed. Because with it, instead of taking hours to create a new portal, it will likely take minutes.

That does not mean we should be idle in the meantime. The main reason most of us are here is because it became apparent that portals were largely unmaintained and had grown out-of-date. This had become so apparent that a proposal was made to delete all the portals and the portal namespace to boot. That makes our main objective in the short term to improve all the existing portals so that the community will want to keep them—forever.

Building lots of new portals comes later. Let's fix up the ones we have first. ;)

And on that note, I bid you adieu. Until next newsletter, see ya 'round the WikiProject.    — The Transhumanist   12:29, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Response to the sock puppet section of Pumpie[edit]

One response on Wikipedia in the article: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Pumpie was on the section that it still not responded for about two weeks. I have responded to that. The reason is that I did not respond to this answer was that I took a break from editing on Wikipedia. I was unaware to it but I had an editing break.

In some new edits, I paste one existing article into another article, with different ones in some parts. Some are perfectly (or comparably) translated from another language into English. Sentences has to be in perfect from, not with spelling errors, I understand that. Also that I definitely understood, a new article has to come with a reference or two and references comes from articles that have been translated from another language into English. In some portions, a newly created article being translated into English from Wikipedia in another language has to come with a photo that is from Commons, even from what is on that version of Wikipedia.

All new edits I continue to do, as correct and proper as possible. I will be more careful in my edits and spelling. I have no clue that I can ask for a review on spelling correction after I create some new article. If I make one or two error, one different user may be needed to correct a translation or sentence if necessary. Terriffic Dunker Guy (talk) 22:50, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

(This section, and the next one, were added to my talk page on Wikimedia Commons. I have moved them here.) Terriffic Dunker Guy: there is a bit of confusion here, as I am not connected with that investigation. Cplakidas, this comes up rather infrequently for me, but it does come up: the way you have your signature set up can occasionally mislead people into going to my user talk instead of yours, or referencing me instead of you. It might make sense to distinguish it in some way. --Constantine (talk) 23:53, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
Hi Constantine, sorry that you got involved in this. You say that this comes up "infrequently". I am curious, has it come up ever before? This is entirely the first time I see anyone mistaking us for one another,and I find it hard to believe that anyone other than Pumpie, with his inability to understand even basic English, and his general incompetence/incoherent behaviour, would fail to simply follow the link to my user page or talk page. Cheers, Constantine 06:28, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Some sock puppets of Pumpie on Wikipedia are not of the user[edit]

Some sock puppets of Pumpie, one or two are not actually related to the user Pumpie. It was of other users. Terriffic Dunker Guy (talk) 23:35, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Greek warship prefixes[edit]

There is a debate here [4] about made up ship prefixes used by NATO. In the discussion the question has been raised if Greek warships use the prefix HS as part of their name and therefore should be referred to as HS Foo just as we refer to HMS or USS Foo? Grateful your advice Lyndaship (talk) 17:32, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Portals WikiProject update #012, 15 July 2018[edit]

We have 97 participants.

Getting faster[edit]

Automation makes things go faster, even portal creation. One of the components Certes made was {{Transclude list item excerpt}}. I became curious about its possible applications.

So I worked out a portal design using it, the initial prototypes being Portal:Kyoto (without a "Selected pictures" section), and Portal:Dubai (with a "Selected pictures" section). Then I used Portal:Dubai as the basis for further portals of this type...

I was able to revamp Portal:Munich from start to finish in less than 22 minutes.
Portal:Dresden took about 19 minutes.
Portal:Athens took less than 17 minutes.
Did Portal:Florence in about 13 minutes.
Portal:Stockholm also in about 13.
Portal:Palermo approx. 12 minutes.


To see, and to show, what may become feasible via automation.

It now looks highly feasible that we could get portal construction time down to a few minutes, or maybe even down to a few seconds.

The singularity is just around the corner. :)


When using the {{Random slideshow}} template to display pictures, be sure to use the plural tense in the section title: "Selected pictures". That's because slideshows don't show up on many mobile devices. Instead the whole set of pictures is shown, hence the section title "Selected pictures", as it fits both situations.

In case you are curious, here is a list of the portals so far that have a slideshow:

Progress on intro conversions[edit]

The intros for most of the portals up through the letter "O" have been converted, using this wikicode:

{{Transclude lead excerpt | {{PAGENAME}} | paragraphs=1-2 | files=1}}
{{Box-footer|[[{{PAGENAME}}|Read more...]]}}

Where the pagename didn't match the article title for the subject, the title was typed in.

Most of the portals that do not contain {{/intro}} or {{{{FULLPGENAME}}/Intro}} have not yet been processed.

About a thousand portals use the method of selective transclusion for the intro section. That's about two-thirds. That means we have one-third of the way to go on the intro section conversions.

Much more to come...[edit]

So much has been happening with portals that I can't keep up with it. (That's good). Which means, more in the upcoming issue. Until then, see ya 'round the project. Sincerely,    — The Transhumanist   08:44, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Portals WikiProject update #013, 18 July 2018[edit]

I got overwhelmed IRL (in real life) during the production of issue #12. So, here is a catch-up issue, to help bring you (and me) up to speed on what is happening with portals...

By the way, we still have 97 participants. (Tell all your friends about this WikiProject, and have them join!)


One cool feature of some of the geographical portals is a panoramic picture at the top of the intro section.

Check these out:

The Portals WikiGnome squadron is busy adding panoramas to geographical portals that don't yet have one. Feel free to join in on the fun. See task details at Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals#Add a panorama or skyline to a geographic portal.

Caveat: avoid super-huge pics, as they can cause portal scripts to time-out. Please try to keep picture size down below 2 megabytes. Thank you.

Auto-populated slideshows[edit]

Speaking of pictures...

We now have two slideshow templates. You may be familiar with {{Random slideshow}}, in which the editor types in (or copies/pastes) a list of pictures he or she wants it to display.

Well, now we have another template, courtesy of Evad37, which accepts one or more page names instead, and displays a random image off of the listed pages. So instead of listing dozens of files by hand, you can include a title or three to be scanned automatically. It even lets you specify particular sections.

The new slideshow template is {{Transclude files as random slideshow}}.

Here's a sample, that grabs images from a single page:

Selected motorcycle or motorcycling pictures

New Template:Box-header colour[edit]

Speaking of new templates, here's another one!

Also from Evad37, we have a new component for starting section boxes, that is color configurable, and that bypasses the need for box-header subpages altogether. It is {{Box-header colour}}.

For color support, see Web colors.

For the discussion in which this was inspired, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Portals/Tasks#Colour combinations for accessibility.

(In case you didn't notice, the slideshow box above uses this new template).

BTW, don't forget to close your box with {{Box-footer}}.

Where are we on the redesign?[edit]

The answer to this question is quite involved, and would fill this page to overflowing. Therefore, this subject, including a complete update on where we are at and where we are going with portal design, is covered at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Portals/Design.

Where are we on portal conversion?[edit]

An AWB pass to convert intros on the portals has been completed. The pass couldn't convert them all (due to various formatting configurations, etc.).

All but about 170 portals now have introductions selectively transcluded on the base page. Not counting manually maintained portals, that leaves about 70 portals that either need their intros converted, or they need an intro.

Next, we'll be converting the categories sections!

What's the plan, man?[edit]

The course of action we have been taking goes something like this, with all steps being pursued simultaeneously...

1) Design a one-page automated portal model

2) Convert existing portals to that design (except those being manually maintained)

3) Remove subpages no longer needed

4) Develop further tools to empower editors working on portals

Later, when the tools are up to the task, filling in the gaps in coverage (with new portals) will also become practical.

Are we caught up yet?[edit]

Probably not.

Who knows what our programmers and editors have dreamed up while I was writing this.

See ya again soon,    — The Transhumanist   11:05, 18 July 2018 (UTC)